Thursday Night Open Thread
I think it might be time for a clean sheet of paper….
|
| | HOME | CONTACT | OLD STUFF | POLLWATCH: NEW JERSEY VIRGINIA | Looking At Howard County | RSS FEED | |
|
|
| | HOME | CONTACT | OLD STUFF | POLLWATCH: NEW JERSEY VIRGINIA | Looking At Howard County | RSS FEED | |
|
ADVERTISING
FOX NEWS
STATE BY STATE POLLS
Alabama
Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming
Search
Links to Others
|
Thursday Night Open ThreadI think it might be time for a clean sheet of paper….
532 Responses to “Thursday Night Open Thread” |
ADVERTISING
MSNBC
I READ 'EM
I RECOMMEND 'EM |
Welcome aboard, folks.
New thread above.
Oops, sorry.
Cousin of shooter on fox atm via phone.
shooter had made requests since 9/11 not to be deployed (been in military since after HS). Family was not aware he was going to be deployed they never told him. Family says good American they are in total shock.
Name prior to conversion? Family says he was always member of Islam.
Hidey-ho, Marv.
Interesting, Knight.
says he wanted out of the military, was intelligent was making 6 figures. Supposedly was harassed from time to time about being a Muslim but other then that they have no idea how this could have happened.
the shooter
He was definitely a loon. No doubt about that.
Hasan never deployed to Iraq or Afgan….so much for “PTSD” theory
Family memember got off the phone real quick.
Confirmed: 2 soldiers taken into custody have been released. News comes from a congressman’s office.
What Congressman, Knight?
#9 – Great and they had this guy treating people at Walter Reed with PTSD? wtf?
Give me second maybe they will repeat it… some one from tx.
That only narrows it down to 34 possible people, Knight.
Kay Bay says she was aware of him being upset about being deployed.
At some point he had a lawyer trying to get him out of the deployment but court determined whatever was at issue was bs.
15 – Does it really matter, they have been released, if they repeat it again I’ll pay closer attention.
Thanks, Knight.
A killing spree seems like an extreme way to avoid a deployment. I find that one hard to put stock in.
Here is a GREAT article on the HC reform by a BRILLIANT writer:
http://bejohngalt.com/2009/11/my-response-to-a-senator-who-supports-obamacare/#comments
Interesting timing of all this with HC vote around the corner.
Why do you post over there, Wilye? Monty Python and the Flying Circus has more subtance that most of those moonbats.
Yea, I don’t want to get deployed so I, a trained shrink, am going to kill 40 colleagues.
This had nothing to do with Islam. Run along now. Nothing to see here.
Give me a break. Common sense.
19 – Me too.
Rudy Koski (fox reporter) also heard that the 2 individual picked up may have been trying to stop the shooter, why they were picked up at witnesses.
#22 – Thanks for the insult.
How did I insult you, Knight?
here is the next spin. He did not want to be deployed because he abhored killing. Trust me, they will try to use that one no matter how obviously absurd.
#22 Becuase I am an amatuer blogger – I dont really have very many outlets for my writing. I think you are being a bit harsh on the BJGers. They have been decent to me and I havent seen any more then the normal amount of blogging nutty comments. Most all political sites I see have a bit of over-the-top commentors. I dunno, kinda like the sun rising in the AM, I kind of expect its part and parcel with internet political blogging…..
I wish I had more time to write more and try to get more connections to post…..especially on this HC topic as its THE important battle right now….
He was a good boy who would never hurt a fly.
Dude, Wilye, they oppose gay marriage simply because its “immoral.” It’s not that it causes bodily harm to people. It’s not that it infringes on people’s rights. They oppose it and want it banned on moral grounds. That doesn’t sound like an army of barking moonbats to you?
Well, he got out of his deployment. Interesting strategy.
May he rot in whatever Muslims consider hell – or does he go the other way to be with the 100 virgins or whatever.
#21 Well it will certainly take all the spotlight off the house HC takeover vote…..
Obviously the incident and HC refrom arent related….
But the suck-the-oxygen-out-of-the-room effect will allow Pelosi and Hoyer to sneak that vote in with much less attention then it normally would….
This benefits the D as the less light-of-day gets shed on their scheme the better it is for them as the ugly details only serve to make people into opponents when they are known…
I’m a Monty python moon-bat or something too I guess that’s fine, you can keep painting with that wide brush if you like.
MD, this is now looking like the act of a solitary individual. That he uses his religion as an excuse to kill is no different than anyone else conjuring a reason to do so.
Wes,
I don’t really give a hoot about gay marriage but I do respect those who oppose it based on their set of morals. That does not make them moonbats.
Canis latrans writes a good piece.
#30 Uh, no not really. Lots of folks have that view. Its not like they are 9/11 truther or anything I mean. And just like on here, opinions seem rather varied….
Maybe some of you can educate me, about how many “readers” would a blog like HHR or BJG typically get?
Is there anyway to tell how many readers a blog has?
Congressman John Carter was the critter btw. Also another suspect has been picked up, the 2 original have been released.
31 – He will rest in the same place that our small government bretheren Timothy McVeigh rests. Along with Cho, Jim Jones, the 9/11 murderers and the rest.
How many incidents involving muslims killing people over the war have we had?
Also Congressman says it was “small arms, and automatic weapons fire”
I happen to like BJG. Yes, the hyperbole goes a little far sometimes, but on the whole, it is a reaaly good site.
Is the MSM going to blame the “hate” speech by the Dems condemming the war for the killing that happened today like they blamed Rush for OK City? Nah…..
MD, the name of the site is Be John Galt. That comes from Ayn Rand’s novel featuring a character of the same name who wants the government ro leave him the hell alone. Based on nothing but religious beliefs rather than actual potential damage done to society, they want gay marriage banned. That’s the definition of a moonbat. Personally I wouldn’t have gone to the polls Tuesday to vote for or against gay marriage, but I wouldn’t have been cheering because the government got to deny a bunch of people something they wanted that would ahve hurt no one either. To me, that makes those people at BJG moonbats.
#33 I really dont go for that moonbat stuff too much for many on this site or HHR from what I have seen. To me, a true moonbat is a someone who post a million explatives and makes all kinds of hateful threats or advocates some wierd conspiricay theory thats completely unproven (ala 9/11 truther or blood-for-oil, etc)…..
People on here seem pretty civil except for the occassional drop-in (not fulltime) trolls/tollettas….
Everyone has varied opinons which is what makes the whole blog deal intersting to me….I learn stuff from folks on here and BJG
#44
That’s one of my chief complaints about BJG. The name of the blog is misleading. I posted that several times. They banned me.
Anyway, having talked down about BJG, I’ll get back to the more serious topic at hand: I seriously wonder what ramifications, if any, the attacks at Fort Hood today will have on our national security policy.
The blog is called “be John Galt”~~~~not “Be Ayn Rand”
MD – I was describing the various sites to wylie last night:
BJG – Good writers, fairly monolithic in views. Stay within some narrow boundary conditions to post and you will be fine
HHR – A bit more debate, wider boundary conditions, but a pretty far amount of agreement
Rightpundits – Absolute wild west. moonbats on both sides and some of the crazier lefties to drop by a right leaning site. Tough to navigate but an entertaining guilty pleasure once you figure it out.
#46 How can you “ban” someone from a blog site?
I’ve never been banned over there, chek, but Moonbat-in-Chief IP727 accused me of being a pseudolibertarian trolling for a debate because I said the GOP overreached on the Terri Schiavo issue. They can ban me if they like though. I have no intention of going to that right-wing version of the Daily Kos ever again anyway.
Look, if it would be up to the people at BJG, gambling would be banned. Sodomy laws would be re-instated. I am sure that INC would like to make adultery illegal. She has said many times that the purpose of laws is to enforce morality. She used a quote from Burke or Kirk (I can’t remember) saying that all societal problems are moral problems. People like her would be happy using the power of government to impose her moral code.
Wes,
The left spent 8 years screaming about the will of the people. This is a democracy. The people have voted 31 times and every time they vote against it.
I am like you. I would not go to the polls to vote either way. However, some feel passionately on this issue. To state that they are moonbats because their belief is inconsistent with Rand is a stretch. Personally, I only agree with Rand on economic issues. I am pro-life and I know that Rand was not. Just sayin.
Rightpundits really bores me, Knova. I really like the HHR though. Dave gives us a wide deal of latitude in airing our views and gets a great deal of debate because of it.
54 – This is home for me. Everything is a lot quicker too.
Wes
Everytime you post a differing view or try to engage in a debate they accuse of baiting. They are beyond boring. They just want to preach to choir. The feel that they have God on their side and you can’t reason with people who believe they are fulfilling God’s purpose.
My mission is fulfilled.:lol:
“That’s the definition of a moonbat.”
–
It’s not actually (google define:moonbat) but yes back to the serious topics before you and drama queen derail the whole thread over it.
It weas the people’s right to vote how they wanted on gay marriage, MD. I just find it disingenuous for the people at BJG to claiom they want small government while at the same time cheerign whenever they get the government to do something base don their moral beliefs alone.
#50
Blocked my account. I went there a couple of weeks ago and the comments are way down. I mean, how many times can you compliment each other about how brilliant their writings are.
Don’t flatter yourself, DQ. It was the site itself that factored into my decision–not your one-note idiocy.
#59
There are not interested in smaller government. They are interested in fulfilling God’s mission. If someone can convince them that Jesus supports big government, they would switch party in a heartbeat.
Knova,
I was one of the originals on Rightpundits and was Political Editor for 9 months. I had a great time and really the other people that work for RP. There are several absolute lefty nut roots at RP. I am not sure why they are attracted to that site.
My problem is that the pages load very slowly. It irritates me to no end.
#51 and #52 I have seen none of what you decribe from the commentors on BJG….of course I have been only posting on there for about 2 months…..
I can only say that they have been great too me and have allowed me to feature post which is way cool…..
I have thrown some very non-mainstream (as far as the other posters comments) on BJG and have not been treated rudely or shouted down….
And if I was, I would take it like an adult….
Its not like I havent been beaten down by most HHRers from time to time lol
“My problem is that the pages load very slowly. It irritates me to no end.”
—
Your not alone in that irritation.
HHR is the best for discussions. It moves fast. NM needs more posters to be interesting. LFG, Charles Johnson demads total agreement.
‘re
I’m sure your erudite musings will be greatly missed wesley/jay.:smile:
Hot Air is too much read meat to the base. RedState is frickin’ boring.
63 – should say “really enjoyed”
I have been surprised how much some people here talk about BJG on Hedgehog Report during my recent lurking and occasional commenting
I guess any press is good press
LOL!
I like the way Dave has HHR set up. Of course sometimes I wish he’d get us new thread a bit faster, but that’s a small annoyance.
#63 How do you get to be a blog political editor?
How many people will read a blog like this, BJG, or RP?
Can you even tell how many read?
Honestly, DQ, I doubt anyone will even notice–and honestly I’m perfectly happy with that.
#69 HotAir wont allow any “new” posters to register either….
I tried to get on there to reach a wider audiance for my anti-government HC takeover writings….
RP has a pretty high traffic count. BJG and HHR not anywhere near the traffic. Tell you what wylie, see how many posters you can name by heart from each site and that should give you an idea of the amount of activity.
I’m not a big fan of Free Republic either.
As are we.
#71 My fault, I posted a link to my HC post to get the message out to more readers…
#64
I was called a waste of sperm and a C_____ at BJG and I post the same thing everywhere. Same tone. Same name. Same opinions.
RP has a surprisingly large readership for the blog world. There are techniques that can be used (indexing, etc…) to increase page views. The publisher of RP is very knowledgable in that area.
Dave’s site is not for profit so he is not worried about that sort of thing. It is not the # of comments, it is the number of page hits and unique users that make a site money.
As for how you obtain a PE position: contacts baby, contacts!
Not necessarily Knova, we have boatloads of lurkers, many, many people are hesitant to comment, especially with a registration system like we have
Um, Knova, I just looked at RP. The only thread with over 20 posts on the fro0nt page is the running polls thread. I’m not really sure saying it has high traffic is all that accurate.
Wiyle,
There are sites that track web site traffic.
I don’t find RP interesting.
Go to Alexa.com to compare sites
Probably for the first time in history you and I agree, DQ. Now if only Dave would give us an ignore function so I never had to see your idiocy again, I’d be in eternal bliss.
…to compare site traffic numbers
But you might miss this then
Wes,
Read my post. Traffic and comments are 2 different things.
#82
They probably don’t want to get blasted by RWY should they differ with him. Brandon offered to have polling thread and RWY couldn’t stop himself from calling him a RINO and said the daily polling data was boring.
KH
LOL!
Why does BOR keep giving Sharpton a format? Fox news is going downhill.
I was agreeing with your post 74, not post 77. Free repub is a great site,
WEC #73
Keep writing, I like your stuff, you will get published more and more over time. I’m happy with the stuff you’ve done for us
#81 Thats interesting info, never knew any of that stuff about blogs…
As a connected ex-Political Editor do you think you could use your contact at RP to get some of my writing on HC featured?
I am always trying to look for more outlets to reach people…..
82 – No doubt that there are lots of lurkers, just as there are here, I am sure. BJG seems to be a more intimate community of posters who also seem to be friends and like all communities it has it’s own set of customs, which might scare off some who would post. HHR, is a bit more diverse, with not as many customs. The lack of a registration system is a double edged sword as it allows just about anyone in. During the elections it was a real problem.
RP – Craziness and sensory overload
I posted that before I saw your explanation post, MD. I guess we must ahve been typing about the same time.
#95 I very much appreciate the opportunity…..I wish I had more time to write then edit better….
Damm full time job lol
I would like to write more on HC and politics and, oh go to anti-Obamacare rallies but my crass personal concerns like eating, living in doors, feeding my family, paying my taxes so the IRS dont lock me up are holding me back right now lol
You really have a thing for Tanner Mayes, haven’t you, Knight?
How about some dinner?
knova
I may be wrong on this, but I wanted to have BJG to be a site where we could all come together and bury our differences and not resort to circular firing squads
We’re certainly not as “diverse” as we should be, but we don’t want to re-visit the Polipundit style site for example, where all day every day was conversation with psychotic trolls
We wanted to be an oasis from liberalism, so to speak
You’re not too smart, are you, DQ? I know you were responding to my post 74. Obviously you’re happy I have no interest in returning to BJG, and I’m happy about it. Hence, we agree.
100 – I told you her and Haze yes, but not a foot thing, finding clean photo’s of either of those too is a challenge.
BJG seems to be a more intimate community of posters who also seem to be friends and like all communities it has it’s own set of customs,
A nice way to say that there are a bunch of close-minded individuals who don’t tolerate opposing opinions.
#97 I dont get the whole “drive-by” troll thing….
I mean why just drop in make one childish post and leave?
Makes no sense and I cant see how it helps the leftist cause….
Its true that I have never seen a “drive by” troll on BJG….must be that registration deal….but why wouldnt you just register then comment? I mean what the heck can people do with your registration info?
You’re almost as bad as I with those scantily clad women, Knight.
I’m speaking like it’s my site, I’m sorry, it’s JustRand and JustMary’s site
I do have a decent amount of influence though
You really shouldn’t post those without Eph Rove here to enjoy them, Knight. He’s quite the connoisseur of such things.
We wanted to be an oasis from liberalism, so to speak
Comment by MFG —
That is the crux of galts gulch.
KH
FootFetishDaily…?!?!?!
LOL!!!!!!
but I wanted to have BJG to be a site where we could all come together and bury our differences and not resort to circular firing squads
You won’t achieve that if you keep on insisting that pro-choicers are baby killers. Or calling secular people morally corrupt responsible for every evil affecting our society.
You’re not too smart, are you, DQ? I know you were responding to my post 74. Obviously you’re happy I have no interest in returning to BJG, and I’m happy about it. Hence, we agree.
Comment by Wes
You’re so cute when you get your panties in a twist.
We wanted to be an oasis from liberalism, so to speak
Liberals and anyone who doesn’t agree with hard right positions on all issues.
So lets talk raw numbers, say HHR – 1000 readers a day? More?
RP? 10000?
I viscerally despise abortion Chekote
Now in my fifties I say what’s on my mind, years ago I would have hemmed and hawed and not been so straightforward about things
That’s what a free press is all about
You should have seen the “incredibly well thought out” responses DQ/IP7272 and INC agve to my question about why anyone even cared about the result of the gay marriage vote in Maine, Chek.
If you guys insist on posting pictures of scantily dressed women I will post a picture of George Clooney’s cute butt.
#105 – Needs medication. the opinion there is not always in unison, once again consider the source.
#107 Well you remember what we determined happens when we keep trading these links?
#118 – Go ahead.
#114 What is the “hard right”? I hate these labels…..why do we sterotype? Why cant we all get along?????
Chekote
You’re overstating the religious nature of BJG
Most posters and commentors are secular
102 – I was never shouted down there for anything that I posted, and was pleasantly surprised when I found that Justrand and I had similar views on a pretty divisive issue. My real discomfort (and it happens here also) is with the mixture of politics and religion, and frankly that probably scares a few people off. Nonetheless, I have always enjoyed the people who post the original threads as they are well written.
How many Democratic congress critters will be tied up this weekend back home in TX?
I think most people aside from left-wing loons like the NOW crowd despise abortion, MFG. Different people have differing perspectives on to what extent the government should be involved in the issue though. Thirteen years ago, I would have said abortions should be illegal in all instances. Now I have a much different perspective on things though.
Most posters and commentors are secular
Best laugh I have had in a long time. Who is secular? RightPundit who can’t wait for Jesus’ second coming? INC? Beej? Judy T. who claims to follow Jesus’ example in everything she does? Give it a rest.
No, Knight, I don’t remember what happened. Remind me please.
I wish they all could be Californian.
#127 – Maybe later.
Edwards almost certainly will, Albert.
#123 Again, only gotten on to BJG recently but I havent seen too much mention of religion or a religious tone much at all….
Of course I may not be very attuned to looking for relgious implications in postings….
I posted that I sent some Maxim magazine to our soldiers in Iraq. INC was appalled and proceeded to say that pornograph DESTROYS people.
The bottom line on abortion is that human beings are being exterminated in a way that you wouldn’t kill Bubonic Plague carrying carrying rats
It is a monstrous crime against humanity
And I’m going to say so
#124 – None from the sound of things, sounds like they are staying in DC for the HC vote.
Beautiful girl in that post, Knight. A bit flat-chested for my tastes though. I tend to like women with a bit more up top.
#123
That’s because they are cowards and only take on women. I said that JR and I have the same views on abortions. I don’t recall anyone calling him a baby killer.
#124 Pelosi will still be pushing for the HC vote on Sat…..per Hoyer the vote will be “close” but they will make “history”
#132 And some disagreed with that and yet didn’t get themselves banned.
Well, MFG, you have a right to your opinion. For me, abortion is not an abstract issue I can make such absolute moral judgments on.
Chekote, I was behind your banning
I fairly insisted on it
Your postings reminded me of Andrew Sullivan’s writings
Take it out on me, not on INC
I love everyone with only 1 exception. Kumbiya my lord!
#133
Nobody is asking you to have an abortion.
per Hoyer the vote will be “close” but they will make “history”
What? The loss of 100 Dem house seats in one election? Yeah BABY.
Abortion is a despicable crime
Really, honestly, seriously, would you kill cockroaches like that?
Can you get me banned over there too, MFG, please?
#143
I can’t believe they are ACTUALLY going to walk the plank on this.
SUSA California:
Boxer fav/unfav: 33-37
White: 30-44
Black: 46-38
Hisp: 30-23
Rep: 10-69
Dems: 46-20
Ind: 35-27
Mods: 35-34
49-26-23 D-R-I; sample 51% white
(2008 exits 42-30-28; white 63%)
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=4a49af39-b308-49b3-85b0-a20e47d978b3
“I tend to like women with a bit more up top”
–
Perhap I could interest you in little something from AZ then?
Well, I have no interest in rehashing something I seriously debated even posting a few threads down, MFG, but look at post 541 on the thread for the Kentucky Senate race and at least try to have some sympathy for why I can’t completely agree with you.
141 – AWWWW, ND, this Bud is for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf23CSM_XQk
That’s more like it, Knight.
Why are you so sensitive, Wes?
You have so much hostility towards us for some reason, I find it puzzling
I think I was ugly to you once a year or so ago on Polipundit and I apologized
A couple of the Galters made a few less than kind remarks to you recently which I wouldn’t have made myself, but what’s the big deal?
You don’t like the site, don’t come over
#144
Again, no one is making participate in the activity. I find certain sexual activity disgusting. I am not looking for the government to ban it. I just don’t do it.
Well, Chek, they’ve essentially decided to deliver Congress to the GOP all wrapped in a bow if that’s the case.
I’m not going over, MFG.
“If you don’t like slavery no one’s forcing you to own a slave!”
Same logic
#154
I am still worried about Pete Sessions’ ability to recruit good candidates. They guy is a total loser. We are thinking about challenging him in the primary.
That doesn’t look too good for Boxer, Jay.
Did you read the post I referred you to, MFG?
#156
Yeah because slaves lived inside their masters’ wombs.
#155
Kid, I don’t give a ****
I was hoping you would do some polls for us, but whatever…
Responding to Wes from below: I’m not leaving for good, I just had other things to attend to. I often have other things on my to do list than blog. Remember not all of us can afford a house in the Bahamas (yet), you lucky dog you.
#148
Droopy boobs. And she is young too. There is no excuse for that!
If that guy from northern Virginia could recruit good candidates in 2004, Chek–for some reason his name escapes me–then Sessions should be able to do so.
#146 They will, just watch…..you folks underestimate the “long march” mindset of the left….too much long term power out there to grab for them…..100 seats lost – yeah, they would make that trade all day long cause they know in 12, 14, etc they will get them back and more….
Plus they have this “we need to pass HC or 94 will happen again” theory on the left too – they really think its in their short term interest too…..
All said I hope you guys are write and this sucker never sees a vote in the house or Senate….
I don’t think a vote will take place. They can’t get 218 imo.
#164
Davis? Sessions is such a loser. We are having a meeting with someone who wants to challenge him.
I read your post and I’m sorry for what happened to your family
However, certainly you know that for 99.99% of people, abortion is a form of birth control
Pelosi’s too invested for the House not to vote, Wilye. As for the Senate, the numbers are against a floor vote–at least as long as people like Nelson and Lieberman don’t cave.
That may be the case, MFG, but in instances like the one I cited that certainly was NOT the case.
However, certainly you know that for 99.99% of people, abortion is a form of birth control
Are you going to pay for the child support of all the kids resulting from a unplanned pregnancy?
That’s right, Chek. It was Tom Davis.
#163 = being cute as hell distracts from that.
Wes,
If I am wrong and it passes the House, then the GOP will gain at least 60 seats. That would be the minimum.
redhead
MFG
Do you support sex education in schools? Giving out birth control for free to lower income people?
Are there .01% of cases where abortion could be justified?
Maybe
The bottom line though is that 99.99% of abortions are a form of birth control
Whether it passes the House or not, MD, the GOP will make big gains next year. The key though remains stopping it in the Senate.
Are you going to pay for the child support of all the kids resulting from a unplanned pregnancy?
Comment by Chekote
That is the parents responsibility.
Why don’t KH and DQ go to BJG and post pictures of sexy women? Or wait, they can’t. INC might threaten to leave.
#179
Then let them make their own decision about it.
You shouldn’t be looking at pictures like that, DQ. The woman’s noth the kind you like: She’s not hideous.
well, I think that I will curl up with the Federalist Papers. i will come back latter and see how this settles itself out.
MD – 150 is for you.
I with MFG on this. There is always the exception, naturally.
However, I have no tolerance for partial birth murder. NONE.
#156 No the logic is not the same. Slavery was wrong because ALL humans are endowed with certain rights given to them by the Creator. Therefore, ownership of another human (slavery) was wrong as it allowed a private citizen and the law to illegally violate those individual rights. Thats why slaveholders did so much to try to dehumanize slaves and turn them into some kind of sub-human specices so they could justify to themselves their surpression of the slaves god-given rights.
Same theory was used during Jim Crow arrow to some degree to justify state sponsored dicrimination…..
Same applies to the Unborn, they have rights as persons too – they question is when in the pregnancy to they full apply?
#177
And that is NONE of your business. If they are sinning against God, He will take care of it.
Depends on what kind of sex education
“Here are your condoms! Go ***** everything in sight now!” – no, I don’t approve of that
74.56% of statistics are made up on the spot.
That’s silly
Under that reasoning it’s none of my business if someone garrotes his three year old
#167 Why in the heck are you crusading against Sessions so much lately…..
I too am amazed that many democrats want to walk the plank on Pelosicare. I personally will believe when I see it.
Let’s be blunt Lieberman and Reid have provided lots of cover for blue dogs. If you can’t get the picture that this Pelosicare bill is dead in the senate you are a fool.
Two committee chairman have already walked away from it. Pelosi will not back away from the abortion rule which costs her more votes. The Hispanic caucus is objecting to what will almost be certain language in the senate bill about illegal immigrants.
I can’t figure it out
#185
You have contradicted yourself within your own argument, do you not see that…???
Technically it is none of your business, MFG. It’s the government’s business, but it’s not yours personally. That’s why we have laws and law enforcement.
#185
I really have no problem with people who believe that a fertilized egg is a person. They are free to practice their beliefs. But they need to understand that not everyone agrees that a microscopic zygote is the same as an adult, child or even a fetus.
It has begun, Wilye.
Or has an “honor” killing of a daughter.
Well, I can see where this is going. Have a good night, ladies and genmtlemen.
#166 I hope your right, dont see it no happening at this point….
Hopefully it will be a cap n tax thing where the House votes, puts the D neck on the chopping block for something totally unpopular, then the Senate does nothing and it dies….
But the D are out there flapping so to speak on their vote for HC pseudo reform
Actually we probably could for awhile since we have in the past with little issue. Hmm that last one made me look for something in TX.
My theory about MFG is that he has seen some of those doctored abortion video being put out by the nuts at Operation Rescue. What he doesn’t realize is that more and more terminations basically resemble a miscarriage.
#199
You think she is sexy?
Really, this absurd sophistry “we can’t tell if this is a person or not” is tiresome
The fetus moves, breathes, sleeps, dreams, feels pain, shits, yawns, even masturbates in the womb. Has a heartbeat, brain waves and recoils from invasive stimuli
Not human…???
Please
Be enough of a man, enough of a woman to face the truth:
You’re killing another human being because that human being is a pain in the ass to you
Own the reality of what you advocate
Knova,
150 – a classic. LOL!
I am a little leery about candidate recruitment efforts. I could go down the list of US senators and no more then half of dozen are truely recruited candidates.
Same for US house members. Usually some pol is really noted for his campaigning/fund raising/Q quotient and the committee says “please run”. They are often the obvious/eager candidate and somehow they are dragged into running.
Norton and Ayotte who I consider prime primo candidates for 2010 were recruited but does anyone thing that a former LT Gov hadn’t had some idea that she would like to be a US senator? She folks are not shocked to be asked nor is the NRSCC the 1st folks to aproach her.
#192 Uh how, where? Slavery was a violation of Individual Rights pure and simple….
The only way one could argue that Individual Rights do not apply was to say slaves were not people…..which was done by slavery proponents
Essentially pro-abortion advocates say the same thing – the unborn arent people and therefore have no rights….
230 What about a Blastocyst? There in-lies the Debate, since i think you will get a general agreement here that Partial Birth Abortions are murder.
The fetal stage does not begin until the 9th week. Most abortions don’t take place at the fetal stage. So why bring up the fetus?
The fetus moves, breathes, sleeps, dreams, feels pain, shits, yawns, even masturbates in the womb. Has a heartbeat, brain waves and recoils from invasive stimuli
This is true during the final months of pregnancy. No abortions happen at that stage unless something catastrophic happened like no brain development which mean no brain waves and the rest.
#201 – Not my type, but she’s certainly not ugly. I’d much prefer
this one from KY.
I am misunderstanding you then WEC
What are you saying…???
How does it die in the Senate. Lieberman is for sure against it. Landrieu won’t go for it. Who else?
The only way one could argue that Individual Rights do not apply was to say slaves were not people
Actually, the Dred Scott decision recognized that slaves where persons. They question before them was whether persons of African descent were entitled to the same rights as Europeans per the Constitution. They determined that that founding fathers had no intention of extending the same rights to people of African descent.
Lincoln, Conrad and Nelson.
whoops 207 was for 203.
That’s completely wrong
The Dred Scott case held that Scott was not a human being and could not file suit because he was the equivalent of cattle or livestock
It also opened the Territories and, theoretically, all of the Union to the expansion of slavery and thus became a powerful force behind the Civil War
211- Technically you don’t need any more if you keep it from being debated and or from ending debate. Nelson of NE has to be iffy, as does Bayh as well.
Don’t count on Landrieu, she’s just been re-elected, I’ve written her repeatedly, she wants to support this thing, especially since she’s just been re-elected
#211
Conrad, Nelson(NE), Dorgan
#202 Thats why I think its hard to argue to allow unrestricted abortions…..
We have laws that acknowledge that a murder of an unborn is illegal….
The unborn are now viable out of the womb at around 20 weeks…slipping back further each day….
Hard to argue IMHO that all but the earliest term pregnancies are not persons due full Individual Rights (that means protection for their life)
Again, when or if to draw that line should be set by the various states…..Roe v Wade sucks as this makes this a national foodfight where nobody (except lobbying groups and politicians) win….Federalism works well for issues like this
KH
She’s jailbait!
What is she, 16…???
Baucus is not for the house version of the public option nor is Carper-Bayh and perhaps 4 or 5 others. There are perhaps 13 democrats who oppose a let’s do it now whole hog public option.
My best guess would be Begich-Baucus-Tester-Landrieu-Lincoln-Pryor-Nelson-Bayh-Carper-Dorgan-Conrad plus perhpas Johnson (SD) and Byrd(WV). That plus 40 GOP senators.
The Public option as the house has it is doomed.
Dorgan up next year, Conrad isn’t and probably more likely to support it, certainly vote for debate.
WEC I think I misunderstood you from the get go
Clearly life begins at conception and if there is any uncertainty in the matter, the tie breaker should go to believing that the fetus is alive
#220 – 19 – legal baby.
#212 That a correct legal reading of Dred Scott. I was refering mainly to the various pro-slavery proganda writers point of view that was published during the ongoing slavery debate.
I think it’s hilarious the way you guys interpose soft core porn with serious political commentary!
Byrd is useless
The Dred Scott decision state that no slave of descendant of a slave could be US citizen according to the Constitution. In other words, people of African descent were not entitled to the same political, legal rights as others. Nothing to do with cattle. Not being human and the rest of the crap being put out by some pro-life quarters. Here is the text of the decision:
The question before us is, whether the class of persons described in the plea in abatement [people of Aftican ancestry] compose a portion of this people, and are constituent members of this sovereignty? We think they are not, and that they are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word “citizens” in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States.
Read it yourself:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h2933t.html
Trying to tie the movement to criminalize abortion to abolitionism is like gays trying to tie their movement to the civil rights movement of the 1960s. Except the latter have a better leg to stand on.
#226 – LOL you think that’s soft core porn?
Reading through the thread of BJG/HHR comments is reminiscent of how libs and conservatives talk over each other. Socially people jab at each other for positions they don’t agree on, like the Terri Shiavo comment Jay/Wes made the other day. I thought people were rude to him, as there was nothing in his comment discrediting Shiavo. He only sounded frustrated about the responses of the republican party to this unfortunate, long and drawn out event. Nothing wrong with that, in my book!
However, what is puzzling, and finally sad, is that many people on both blogs (HHR and BJG) have similar, if not identical economic stances, believing in small government, personal liberty, small business, private HC…and, on and on. It’s the social issues that act like a cactus snagging people’s nerve endings and creating all the hard feelings. I personally think people should be free to disagree without insulting each other. After all, no one is always right.
In saying all this, I do think that HHR moves quickly, and has loads of information on it without too many snarky comments. So, I give you all credit for keeping it that way. However, at BJG there are some incredibly intelligent contributions (especially in the context of historical comparison and contrasts), some lively discussions, and good quantites of humor.
So, I think both sites have their merits. It’s too bad that people don’t blend in more as there is really more similarities that differences…IMHO.
Oh plus Lieberman but if the chips were down you might get to 50 as some of those democrats cannot be taken at their word.
Now some sort of modified Baucus like state opt in public option might get 55 votes. The opt out version of the state optioned public option might get 52 or so votes. The opt out state option public option is not very far away from the Pelosicare public option.
Did that last paragraph make any sense? If it did you can be staffer for Harry Reid
However, the case held that Dred Scott had no standing to sue because he was not a person
Clearly life begins at conception and if there is any uncertainty in the matter, the tie breaker should go to believing that the fetus is alive
Life begins at conception. But a person is does not exist at conception. Also, at conception you don’t have a fetus. You have a zygote. You really need to learn biology.
#223 I dont necesscarily disagree with your POV on where life begins but I do acknowledge that its not a whole unreasonable arguement to also say that life begins only when the unborn is viable out of the womb too. In any case, the various states should be free to determine who they view this and formulate their own abortion laws accordingly. At the state level, its much easier for me to try to get the law changed or I can move to another state if I dont like the law where I reside. Roe v wade is a one-size-fits all straight jacket.
Jan
It’s the old circular firing squad
What are you gonna do…???
LOL!
Hi Janzam!
WEC
Repeal of Roe v Wade then moral suasion after that
#232
Not true. He couldn’t sue because he was determined not to be a citizen. Again, from the text of the decision:
The court think the affirmative of these propositions cannot be maintained. And if it cannot, [Dred Scott] could not be a citizen of the State of Missouri, within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States, and, consequently, was not entitled to sue in its courts.
The Dred Scott decision had NOTHING to do with personhood. It has to do with US citizenship.
I mean… it had to do with citizenship.
Bayh
#235
True. But you were one of the people who wanted me banned. I assumed you didn’t like the circular firing squad. Yet you are here. Why?
But they need 60 so we are good. The nuclear option can be deffused with parlimentary jujitsu is my understanding.
Hello back, MD!
I’m guessing Bayh will oppose and filibuster HC. He said the cloture is the same as on the merits. He is VERY cautious and has made his bones here in Indiana for the last 20 years as a fiscal conservative. He is up for re-election next year and as I said… he is VEEEERRRRRRRRRY cautious.
#233
I don’t tell myself stories
You’re welcome to lie to yourself if you want
“It’s a zygote!” REALLY means, “What a pain in the ass this pregnancy is! Let’s just get rid of it and think up some BS as to why what I’m doing isn’t morally wrong!”
Bayh is probably looking at VA and s******g bricks…
Jan,
I hate to admit this but I got my beemer up to 120 MPH the other day and the ride was still smooth!
Person that ultimately dropped the shooter was a woman officer who just came out of surgery seems like she’ll make it.
Okay, you guys have asked for it:
http://www.nude-male-models.com/Antonio%20Banderas/antonio_banderas3.html
#238 and #239 the 14th amendment fixed that. In any case, the unborn in this country are on the path to citizenship so to speak lol
Yeah I bet he is. Another way to put it about Bayh is this…. when it is an issue that everyone is watching he usually votes like a Republican. My prediction is that he will oppose HC and filibuster it, and rationalize it based on its cost.
I’m here because the poll coverage before these elections has been great on this site!
#244 – I’m more confident of his FB support then I am of say Snowe lol
Let’s just get rid of it and think up some BS as to why what I’m doing isn’t morally wrong!”
A fertilized egg is a zygote. Again, let God deal with it.
MFG,
I think it is unlikely that Byah will lose. He is a master at talking like a conservative while his actions betray his words. I think he will vote for cloture as long as he thinks there are others who won’t.
Enough about abortion
You couldn’t find a clearer picture, I mean come on we don’t post sub-par quality pics.
Think Nancy has 218?
#250
That’s exactly why 14th amendment had to be passed. Notice. It doesn’t say that blacks are person. Or defines a person. It says that any person born is the US is a citizen.
Plus Bayh’s wife serves on some heavy $$$ corporate boards. Including, I think, Anthem (or maybe Wellpoint). So Bayh is no stranger to the corporate world, and has been cozy with business forever. He is NOT his father’s son.
#257
It was clear enough for me.
258 – No
#245 People have rights, zygotes dont. You saw the same arguements or dehumanization used in the slavery debate too. Its like calling a government run HC plan a “public option” – its pharsology to make your arguement sound better.
Think of the arm twisting they’re doing right now…!!!
255 – You think?
255. I disagree. He has already said on the record that in his view a cloture vote = vote on the merits. I agree he will likely win, but he is VERY cautious (I can not overestimate this about Bayh). I would be very surprised if he votes for cloture. He will say he opposed HC because of the cost. Mark my words.
I have to say that Obama has managed to create more problems for the Dems in less than a year than I anticipated.
258 – I’d put money that she’s close.
I think when you see a baby, during all the months of gestation, from the very beginning to full-term, it is difficult to dismiss that some kind of Higher Power must be involved with such a miracle. Just because we don’t scientifically “know” if a “Soul” or “Spirit” inhabits a living, growing fetus doesn’t really prove anything.
As humans, we really “know” so little, especially when it comes down to the matter of when life starts, and what happens after death.
But, legally, not personally, I believe states should have the right to determine such things. While, personally, everyone else has to just live with their own conscience.
266 – Actually he didn’t just say that about cloture, he even said that about bringing the bill to the floor.
It’s super high stakes
If she can’t get 218 what does she do?
LOSE the vote? What a catastrophe!
POSTPONE the vote? Clear admission that Hell care is doomed!
Pelosi will get exactly 218, and no more.
266,
I just have a feeling on Byah. I smell a sellout coming with him but I am not worried. There are 2 many others who will go against Scary. The dem sens don’t cower in his presence like the wimps in the house do to their Mistress Nancy.
Maybe
High stakes indeed!
The reason he wins big in Indiana all the time is that he votes correctly on stuff like this. With an issue like this, which everybody is keying on, he will vote like a Republican imo. He leaves nothing to chance vis a vis getting re-elected in Indiana. He has always held himself out as a fiscal conservative. He won’t be able to get away with supporting HC now. Bank on it. He will cite the tremendous cost of HC during a recession. He has already mentioned this and I believe has signaled his intentions here.
#271
As I posted earlier, the Dems are stuck. If the proceed with the public option, they will turn off indies. If they don’t, they will piss off their base. Obama should have used the bad economy as an excuse to postpone HC reform. But he is too much of an ideologue for that.
I think Bayh knows all the eyeballs at home are on him, and that Reid is in trouble at home, why create problems for himself.
looks like the debate stayed relatively civil, and with multiple conversations going on at the same time.
MD, I cannot believe that those Bud Light commercials were almost 15 years old. Time flies.
#260 I think all these so-called Blue Dog Senators are setting us up for a YES HC vote once the public option is dropped – that is all they say they oppose….
they know the rest is still a HC takeover but seem confident that the people dont understand this and think that dropping the public option will calm the masses….
problem is we are still getting government run HC with all the regulations, taxes/subsides, and individual mandates….
thats how I see it shaking out….
Drop the public option then full speed ahead
whay is HC going for on intrade?
I am sticking with the vote does not happen. However, I will concede that the D’s in the house shiver with fear when Nancy speaks.
MD, what’s your gut on Bill Nelson? I see no one mentioned him.
Pelosi will get exactly 218 because that is all she needs.
All others will be released, to try to save their seats.
“POSTPONE the vote?”
—
If she does the current version of the bill is dead till it’s re-written yet again.
I personally do not think Nancy has the 218 votes as of yet.
It may be that she will be forced by the party’s left wing to try to 218.
For several weeks now I have wondered whether the left will accept Obamcare without a public option. Basically without the public option, which would like quickly to national healthcare, Obamacare is a bunch of taxes-fines-mandates-penalties that will lead to lots of folks getting insurance who do not want insurance. Lots of young healthy people will be forced to get insurance. Plus the profits will go to the insurance companies. Will the liberal/blue dogs will bust the budget-inflict huge political pain on themselves just to boost the profits of Humana, Aetna and others?
#247 – MD
While I’m here trying to rub two thoughts together about blog quarreling and babies, I totally missed the news of you circumventing a ticketing session with the cops —> going 120 miles with your Beemer! I’ve only done that in an old Pontiac, and it shook like hell. Hmmm, never went that fast in my own beemer —> husband would have a cow!
Biologically we know a lot about development. An early human fetus looks almost exactly the same as any other mammal, and even other fetuses like chickens.
Not picking a fight, just stating biology facts.
281 – Idiot from FL will vote for cloture 100%.
285 – Not to worry I already reported him to via the WH snitch site.
Doc,
I think Bill Nelson will vote for cloture but vote against the final bill.
277…. Spot on.
He is very cautious like that. He has a real good gig here as the Jr Senator from Indiana. He makes the rain and his wife makes all teh money from top corporations. He will not risk that in the least just to bail out Reid or anyone else.
Pelosi will get exactly 218 because that is all she needs.
All others will be released, to try to save their seats.
Comment by sam
Exactamundo
The police are at my house!
Knighthawk!!!!
I have wondered whether the left will accept Obamcare without a public option.
They will not. They put Obama in the WH to get out of Iraq (not happening); closing Gitmo (no happening); public option (not happening); climate change (not happening)
#272 I dont think they would even be talking about a vote on Sat if they werent going to hold it and had 218….
Yeah, it will be exactly 218 as one vote more then that would be flipping stooooopppppiddddd and just condem more Blue Dogs to electoral defeat……
I am telling you, we arent dealing with normal Clinton types in Obama, Pelosi, etc in the D leadership…..they see this in terms of long term electoral payoff/government dependecy that will help bring on the rest of their government interventionist agenda….
The major catagories of the unemployed in the USA are the young, healthy and unwilling to insure. Plus those middle aged and older who have fallen on hard times-financially. They have lost their jobs or are underskilled. They cannot afford $3K a year for insurance and they are “naked” so to speak as far as insurance is concerned. So Obamacare will help provide insurance for the unwilling and unable at the cost of fines-penalties-mandates and cuts to the our seniors/disabled folks.
Without a public option why have Obamacare?
KH and MD, okay thanks. He voted against cloture on the doctor buy-off, so I was wondering.
oh cheet… Terrorist isn’t dead… and used semi-auto weapon.
critical-but-stable at the hospital, someone should just off him at the hospital.
#286
Facts are not allowed when it comes to abortion or evolution.
Dave should have a prediction contest for the number of votes on the health care bill.
#297
Oh great! Now we have to hear about the evil racists in the military picking on him.
292 – Told you not to speed, tisk tisk. Cheer up!
That’s why I’m saying maybe we’ll get lucky and he will not make in through the night, *cough*.
How could they even get 60? Seriously. Lieberman out. Byrd-slobbering and crapping his pants as we speak. Fillibuster it will be.
300 – Great idea… or if the vote happens at all. lol
I’m go with 220 just to be different.
302 – I’m cheerful! I’m cheerful!
Bill Nelson has been all over the board on healthcare. he does not want to face the wrath of seniors who get medicare cuts under Obamacare but he is a party guy.
he is another one who speak with forked tongue
Almost time for a new episode of Project Runway. It is almost Bryant Park time.
304 – So far it will not even come to that, they don’t have the 60 votes to start debate yet, let alone to end debate (cloture). Course maybe Harry will just find some way to suspend those long established rules, or play games with tacking in on in conference of some other bill, course if he does that 2010 will be a utter bloodbath.
297 It is probably better this way, much easier to get information from the living.
299 I am not picking a fight, just presenting facts. I am off the warpath for today. I present the facts, it is up to the reader to believe me or not. I wont be dragged into a politics discussion about abortion.
Ok, here’s what I got:
Novody knows much. Agencies squawking back at each other. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
The spin from the un-msm – he has “post traumatic syndrome”. Uh, but he never went over there. So, how can that be?
When the dust settles,the lockstep lemmings of the ditchcarp party will give us HCR of some sort. They have waited too long to do otherwise. This stuff we see now is all smoke and mirrors to entertain the mob.
~~~WASTTM~~~~
I don’t really want information out of him at this point, I’d prefer he die and save us all the time and expenses. Just saying.
#284 Problem is that all the rest is STILL a government run health care system it just is run thru supposedly “private” health care insurance firms….think GM here
The government will set the rules, refree the game, provide the funding (subsidies), and force EVERYBODY to participate at point of crimininalizing people….if this aint government run HC then what is?
Since costs will soar for both premiums and government programs, it will collapse into single payer albeit a bit slower without the so-called public option…..of course the “failure of the free market” will be blamed….
It just takes a bit longer but the real lefist knows this get them what they want….
I am concerned about the HUGE loss of liberty with this bill as now it set the legal precident that the Federal government can FORCE you to buy any good or service they want…..this is clearly unconstitutional
311 – So what we have in essence is your basic mass murderer, acting alone and for his own reasons (or lack thereof.) No different than the guy in Cleveland with the exception that he got caught sooner. Just another day in Paradise.
“post traumatic syndrome”
—
New disorder…
PRE traumatic syndrome
or uh he “caught” it from his patients, yeah that’s the ticket!
Code pink is on the way with ACLU lawyers in tow (kidding)
The reason RP has higher traffic is because there are 5-6-8 blogs that all use the same domain ending in rightpundits.com. The blog that draws the MOST traffic is rightcelebrity.rightpundits.com
In terms of comparing the 3 sites: RP only has about 6 commenters that make very many posts.The writing is OK and often tends to stray off political issues. BJG, in my opinion has the best writers but is in fact a fairly “closed” community that tends to stifle dissent sometimes. HHR has the most commentators and allows for a wide diversity of opinion.
I enjoy and visit all 3 sites. They all have their plusses and minuses. HHR had better writing until Dave shut down his 2 writers, LOL. One issue I have with BJG is I was given an absurd password that can not be remembered, so sometimes I have to back to my email account to find the crazy password.
I would agree that perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 the posters at BGJ are somewhat secular and several are somewhat pro-choice. There are certainly religious, social conservatives but social issues DO NOT dominate the threads or the comments.
Chek, sometimes it seems that you delight in stirring the pot and causing strife so I can see why you were banned.
Ya know guys, I was thinking. I can’t remember who it was that I talked to about this but it was when Lieberman came out and said he would filabuster the House health care plan. He could make sure that the House doens’t even vote on this. I think it was Jason who mentioned it. What if he announced he would caucus with the GOP for the remainder of his term? It would probably hamper his re-election chances but he has got to be thinking about retiring soon. This would be the absolute sweetest revenge he could exact upon MoveOn.org, Code Pink, and all the other loony left that tried to primary him. All those Blue Dog Dems would have absolutely no reason to fall on the sword for Queen Pelosi. Thoughts?
313 You have a point, but if this goes deeper it will be easier to find out now. Hopefully he will take a long fall with a short rope (or any equivalent) at Ft. Leavenworth soon enough. I don’t know how the military does it currently but any method would do for me. It is absolutely appalling.
306 – reminds you of a certain congresswoman no?
#295 Millions will also be hearded into Medicade thru elgibilty expansion (now healthy adult who earn up to 150% of the poverty level will be allowed to enrolled) – trust me its still government run health care and a huge power grab….it just changes the names around to hide the truth….
You are correct that it makes no sense in terms of costs (they will soar) for individuals or business and will not improve the HC of anyone….but thats not the point for the left…..political power is….
Wylie
I am with you 100%. That’s all the fines-penalties-personal, policy and business mandates that makes this bill so bad. There will be so much hollering if this bill ever got signed that GOP would get back to 235 in the house next year.
Nancy knows this bill stinks and that is why she has allowed no amendments to be voted on. The two biggest and most far ranging bills this term-Pelosicare and Cap/Trade both came to the floor as up or down votes. The US house has been made a joke. Its not a legislative body its Nancy says body
Tim V
Wonderful summation of all the sites!
I am not getting any info that it is terrorist related.
However, I do not understand why the Major still had his rank given the outlandish comments he made. Can anybody explain that one?
The President’s speech was very bad. He made jokes before stating what happened. How disgusting.
“o sometimes I have to back to my email account to find the crazy password”
—
uh..login to wordpress, profile, change password.
317, thanks for the analysis Tim. Haven’t checked out RP yet, but it sounds to hectic for me. I get well enough behind here. I have read BJG, however it also did not seem right for me. I do appreciate Dave running this site, and i feel the poll information here is very valuable. Saves me a lot of time tracking them down myself.
The Obumbler inspires no confidence in me.
Can we have another abortion fight on the thread? The last thread or two had about 500 comments of macaca.
Cause he was Dr. and promoted I think before those comments were widely known… (I’m guessing)
PR – Lieberman’s said he’d FB the senate version, not the house version, since that’s not really possible.
327 – Please more more!! My eyes are not blurry enough.
#309 Drop the Public Option and they will vote for cloture – that is the ONLY provision they oppose….
If anyone on here as a link where Liberman, Bayh, Lincoln (the usual blue dog suspects) have said they would filibuster for any reason OTHER then opposition to the public option then please link on here as I would be interested to know what else they oppose in the bill…
However, I do not understand why the Major still had his rank given the outlandish comments he made. Can anybody explain that one?
Comment by Tina
They need doctors, and it would be non PC to question his religion.
#326 Would you support a Democratic HC bill if it didnt have a public option?
Chek, sometimes it seems that you delight in stirring the pot and causing strife so I can see why you were banned.
Quoting from the text of the Dred Scott decision is stirring the pot.
#325 My computer saves my BJG password automatically so I never have to log back in
#309 Drop the Public Option and they will vote for cloture – that is the ONLY provision they oppose….
That is why it may be a red herring from day one.It will give them an out when dropped.
During my hey day, he would have been stripped.
324 Well sadly President Obama really is not a leader. Leaders make decisions. Indecision is a decision. I already discussed this pertaining to our troops today. Really he is just as bad when he does nothing as compared to impose some of his silly ideas.
By the way, who else thought saying, “I’d like to give a shout-out to…” is a little below the president. Pretty soon press conferences might as well be the MTV Music Awards.
The nation got what they wanted, a celebrity, not a leader. I only hope that the losses to our troops are minimal due to his indecision.
Wylie you are right around Medicare. The governors are are have a fit about this bill. Lots of more work for the state on medicare/medicaid but no more money for operations.
Here’s a dirty little secret that even Wylie has not posted and that’s hard to believe. Under Obamacare 30 million people will get insurance cards. Many of these folks are currently using our local public hospital for care. They can’t pay much, in most cases, but the local hospitals get reimbursed from the state and federal government in medicare or other dollars. What happens if the 10 million folks who use public hospitals now go to local private hospitals like other folks? Has any noticed that our local private hospitals are much nicer and better then our local public hospitals?
Guess who pays when the patient count drops and the funds dry up under Obamacare for this shortfall at our local public hospital.
Yup its you and me -Joe Taxpayer. Our privately owned hospitals have agreeded to take lower medicare payments, as part of the funding for Obamacare, because they know all these newly insured folks will be flocking to the nicer private hospitals.
Its a massive shafting of local taxpayers
#332 Yeah Nancy loves to force other to swallow her turds!
I can’t wait to hear the excuse he will use when he won’t be able to close Gitmo by the end of the year.
From what rathole did the “major” come from? Was he native born or was he from Krapistan.
Ahhh Knighthawk, getting sleeeeeeeepy LOL
See, I disagree. I think the healthcare ship is starting to spring leaks every where. The Dems do not have control of this debate anymore.
The shooter could die tonight – overnight.
Now there is a sight picture worthy of a labotomy.
341 – Born and raised in the good old US of A, Commonwealth of Virginia. Virginia Tech Hokie Grad.
I find that the Drats lead by the Obumbler, Piglosi, and Reid, will do nything to pass something. We re not out of the woods.
Sorry i missed your question. I would not support HC in any form the Dems present Wylie. As a libertarian i don’t want that much government in my life. Frankly, I think there is too much already.
Perhaps an m-16 enema could hurry it along.
They should close Gitmo and put all the terrorists next door to Va’s Webless wonder, Piglosi, and Reid.
350 – I live close enough to there. I don’t want the SOB’s. Leave them in Gitmo.
Don Q
This is how the senate works. You drop the public option but they vote in strong wording against illegal immigration.
That will not fly in the house so nothing passes there.
Once you drop the public option you get to pick and choose on how to pay for this turkey. I am sure you can get 51 votes to agree on how to pay for it in the senate or 218 in the house.
#338 Your correct – and that is just ONE example of why this is like the WORST bill ever proposed in the history of the republic except maybe the alien and sedition acts!
You could spent the WHOLE week pointing out negative effects like this one!
This is why government intervention/violations of our rights should never be allowed…..they just spawn unforeseen bad concequences galore….and all must rely on force and coersion to work…and when it breaks down, then yet more mandates, force, and coersion….
If there scheme really worked and reforemed health care then no mandates or coersion would be needed
They are playin Shep Smith, who needs to date that guy on CNN -Anderson Cooper. My sources say those two are dating.
344 Due to foul play? The news I read stated stable condition, which usually doesn’t mean death overnight. However I assume you have information I am not privy too. Feel free to correct me unless it is one of those “if i told you, I would have to kill you” things.
Well, Guitmo is closing, on orders of the Commander in Chief. So, the jails to hold them should be next door to those that want it clodd.
Well he is stable now, but could turn for the worse, overnight…
They are playin Shep Smith, who needs to date that guy on CNN -Anderson Cooper. My sources say those two are dating.
Comment by Tina
Careful lest ye raise the ire of wesley.
No foul play, you and I do not know how serious his wounds are, how he reacts to those wounds over night.
356 – I have no problem with them going to Pelosi’s district…although you might have a different opinion. How about Reid’s Yucca Mountains, since we can’t use it for its original purpose.
Wesley wants a threesome????
Is it is Wes, Wesley, or Jay?
Including an anti illegal provision is meaningless, because SCOTUS would have them covered via the 14th amend.
I mean knova right next door to those folks principal residence.
It would seem to me that they should have stropped him of his rank.
#343 I hope you correct and that ScaryCare is in its final death throes….but I will beleive it only when it happens….I still see some potential moves left for them when they ditch the public option….certainly they can go back to their leftist base now and say “we tried” and probably get a free pass on this…..they know all the rest of the HC crap minus the public option gets them control of HC and thus a good long-term politcal control….I say this is too big a prize….
But again, really hoping your right and I am wrong…..Sat is not that far off…we shall see my friend!
364 – How about putting them in the Lincoln Bedroom? Beats renting it out like Clinton used to do.
Is it is Wes, Wesley, or Jay?
Comment by Tina
Wes is Jay. I like wesley, because he’s so cute when his panties are bunched.
Wylie
here’s another bonehead point. An uninsured person gets funds available to him to buy insurance on his own. I am self employed and buy insurance for myself. What stops me from dropping my insurance and qualifying for tax credits to buy insurance as an uninsured person?
I don’t understand why the uninsured get assistance but I don’t.
I can see some folks, with less then 25 employees, ditching their insurance plans. They will not be required to provide them and let their employees go out and buy subsidized insurance.
Its like the seals at the dams in the harbor. The fish are right there trapped so they eat them and do not learn to fish out in the ocean. These dumb animals are acting in their best interest but they are eating protected fish. Employers will game this plan for their benefit
OK Yarmuth (D-KY Louisville) is gonna get 4 phone calls from my family down there tomorrow. Telling him that if he votes yes, they will vote for his opponent in November.
#363 so does an Amnesty bill! that next up after the HC takeover!
Employers will game this plan for their benefit
Comment by rdelbov — November 5, 2009 @ 10:10
That is precisely their game plan. The neo marxists WANT everyone on the gubmint tit,knowing full well the employer will drop them. Once that occurs, they will have the single payer system they always wanted.
Tim V
Wonderful summation of all the sites!
Comment by Jan
Thank you. I wish I could see your gorgeous Gravatar here too
Once they are given amnesty, they are no “illegal” and hence qualify for benefits.
#369 Well the uninsured MAY NOT get any assistance (ie government subsidies) at all!
The subsidies are tied to your INCOME level NOT your status as being unisured!
If you make above a certain income ($75K for a single person for example) then they FORCE YOU to buy insurance totally with your own funds!
You participate/purchase or get fined/jailed for NOT BUYING insurance!
See thats why I say this tramples people rights!
Not everyone needs to buy health insurance – some may want to self-insure if the save their own $$$$ for that purpose…..
“I can’t wait to hear the excuse he will use when he won’t be able to close Gitmo by the end of the year.”
—-
The latest one this week is because Bush, shocker! This weeks was “Uh.. the paper work they left behind was a mess”, I kid you not I heard that one yesterday from some admin official.
#369 I would also contend that the D know costs will soar for HC insurance premiums and therefore WANT to encourage employers to dump their coverage and persons to pay the fines vice buy private Health Insurance….its designed to INCREASE the number of uninsured or to force you into MEDICAID exapanded program….
With increased numbers of uninsured and much higher premiums then the D can demogouge the free market again and say it “failed”….
I would house then in the congres.
To install socialism, one must first destroy capitalism, via fascism, We are in the destruction phase now.
Thanks Tina. Thought if a few guys found a way to knock him off tonight, it would not surprise me, nor would I blame them.
I just hope this actually drags out as long as possible (hc ), the more time wasted on it the better, the less damage they could otherwise be doing.
#379 yep they be facisitin’ up….yep we b destructin’ now~!
#369 I was wondering about that last year when Obama said this in his convention speech…
“If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don’t, you’ll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves.”
383 – Yeah but you forgot to discount that his lips were moving.
#383 Are either of these statements turning out to be true?
#383 Straight up propaganda!
All HHR’s just read this article – its the best HC writing ever!:
http://bejohngalt.com/2009/11/my-response-to-a-senator-who-supports-obamacare/
“But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less – because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy.”
Has he done this yet? or is it on the to-do list.
Negative and Negative.
He has cut a few that were were working all military I believe, like the f-22 and the airborne laser, but I think the senate through back in some of the airborne laser funding for now.
KH:
“I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts. But I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression. I will build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation; poverty and genocide; climate change and disease.”
#390: …threats not necessarily in order, I guess.
Little maliki was abused by his soldiers, he just wanted to hand up the Koran.
lol – Pretty laughable.
Yeah climate change that evil threat I go to bed at night worrying about.
BTW Not sure it’s been mentioned here, but apparently the administration will not recognize the elections in Honduras, so they get it right about 6 months late. More of that “smart diplomacy!”
Tina you must be watching what I just was. uhhh.
Let’s see your Major, your treating people for PTSD coming back from deployments from the middle east theaters, and your going around talking like a jihadi and handing out korans and you don’t think maybe people are gonna same some chit about you?
Was it fauxnews?
Anyone want to venture a quess on job report tomorrow.
I’ll say 9.9 — job losses 180K
#396 Phil,
258,000 jobs lost and 10.0% unemployment rate.
Phil,
Maybe we should call Dave W. and get him to put up a prediction thread.
Tinareports is making no forecast for tomorow.
I was hopng that the stock market would go down again a few hundred points. I wanted DIS below 27 and SLE nat 10.
395 – It was indeed.
Well Marve, if that’s true, the media will have a hell of a time spinning those numbers.
Wanna bet they try though. Will take some creativity.
#393 KnightHawk
Are you saying that the administration will or will not recognize the Honduran elections?
-179,000
They now have quietly said they will.
Knighthawk
The media spin will be that “more evidence that the economy is recovering since the number came in a whle thousand under the projected number.
I do think we hit the 10 percent jackpot tomorroq, just not predicting the actual #s.
#405 KnightHawk
That’s good. Now, I hope that they re-establish diplomatic and military ties.
Phil, of course, the number could go up and they’d still find some way of pimping a positive headline.
Night gang.
nite tina.
I may head out soon as well, early morning ahead.
KnighHawk,
Neither the Fox News Channel nor the Fox Business Network will allow the admin to spin a 10% unemployment number. Even if that is the number, I’ll bet that the markets indices go up anyway.
One last post from the convention…
“When John McCain said we could just “muddle through” in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources and more troops to finish the fight against the terrorists who actually attacked us…”
“As Commander-in-Chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm’s way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle…”
“I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.”
Is there no clear mission at the moment, or is this just more baloney?
ut oh they were his personal weapons, you know what the means.
Wylie… here is link to Bayh interview with Bob Schieffer where he does not mention public option. Instead he says he is worried about the cost and that people would face higher premiums. Note the latter tatement. This is the position of the insurance industry. His wife serves on teh boards of at least one major health insurance company.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/28/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5437618.shtml
I say Bayh will oppose this bill at every turn, if forced to.
KnightHawk,
BTW, I mentioned to my wife your warning about the traffic problems around Aloha Stadium. She has agreed to leave right after breakfast and head to the tail gate party even though it’s a night game.
Thanks.
Guys,
I expect there to be a house vote on Saturday, and I’d say 60-40 that it passes (odds I mean). Of course it’s DOA in the Senate, but I think Pelosi figures that with pressure buidling from her left constituancy (her constituancy lest you forget) AND her notion that she either gets this done now OR faces 1994 redux, I suspect she feels she doesn’t have any other choice (and Pelosi’s own seat is safe enough).
As for Dred Scott and abortion, it’s not a valid comparison. African-Americans are and have always been considered “persons” under constitutional law (even to the now infamous 3/5ths clause). If they were not, then it would be impossible to free a slave and have that former slave become a citizen in good standing, yet this happened in the US even in the deep South (although it was rare there). A freed slave even in Alabama was a full US citizen with voting rights. It just almost never happened is all.
-Polaris
Dr.Jay, I don’t think your aware of this rule, but your not allowed to use Obama’s own words against him, that is reserved only for use against members of the Republican party.
Marv it’s not that bad. I just meant if your coming from like the North shore and the game is at 6 or 7, head out @ 3pm.
10.1%
-190k
Eventually, the media spin that the economy is getting better (thanks, of course, to Obama) will cause the labor force to expand as people who left the labor market start returning.
There was a large drop-off in the labor force a few months ago that caused the unemployment rate to decrease. Those people will inevitably return to the labor force and the unemployment rate will spike; the only question is when.
#414 That’s horse-pucky! I ought to know since I have lived on military bases. You are NOT allowed to carry around or own those kind of weapons (semi-automatic pistols) except under VERY tight controls. US Military bases have some of the strongest gun control laws under US Jurisdiction (even more so than most places in Europe!) since the 2nd amendment doesn’t apply to Military Bases for a variety of reasons.
-Polaris
#419 KnightHawk
Yeah, I know, I just wanted an excuse to leave the hotel early and start the party.
Polaris,
We’ve turned this thread into a job loss raw number and unemployment percentage prediction contest.
What’s yours?
Polaris, you can bring personal weapons onto ft.hood as there in a hunting range or some chit just has to be unloaded and not in reach and checked in and out is all. This sounds similar to rules I had getting on ft.benning when accessing the public recreation area.
One time I just got the once over on the car, though upon later tries during week days I had to go through the whole sign in process and got the full car search.
In ref. to 424\414 just saying what the folks on tv are explaining.
#418 heh, oh well. I guess it was ‘the greatest speech ever written in the history of mankind’, after all. It would be like poking fun at the sermon on the mount for a laugh…
oh, wait…
(1 minute in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXcvbnzNIjg&feature=related
The Democrats are planning to vote on Healthcare Bill without posting for 72 hours. This is a deception and the media has a responsibility to call Pelosi and the others on this LIE!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/11/pelosi_breaks_pledge_to_put_he.asp
HAhaha #426, #427 – Did you expect any less, she just added 42 more pages this morning.
sample of home boy’s online musings
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/11/muslim_army_major_be.php
#423 I’m not sure. Best guess? 9.9% and -150K
#424 Those were the tight controls I was talking about. I lived on Elemdorf AFB and there was a good deal of hunting to be done in that region. Nevertheless, personal weapons restrictions were downright draconian if you lived on base. Perhaps they are easier off-base.
The point is that you can’t blame loose gun laws on this. Military bases have some of the strictest gun control laws around.
-Polaris
from same:
—
Hasan also praised the murder of two US soldiers who were killed outside of a recruitment center in Little Rock, Arkansas.
“This is what Muslims should do, stand up to the aggressors,” Hasan said, according to Lee. “Maybe we should have more of these, people should strap bombs on themselves and go into Times Square.”
–
What is the carbon footprint of a 2000-page bill printed out for every member of congress?
That’s like, 150 trees, isn’t it? Should I buy Georgia-Pacific stock?
“The point is that you can’t blame loose gun laws on this.”
—
Of course you can’t logically, but why would that stop them, has it stopped them before?
#431 What was he still doing in uniform?
-Polaris
We have no press. They are just the PR arm of the democratic piglets.
You would think they are up to date, and pass around PDF or Word doc’s
#432 It’s job creation, Dr Jay. Think of all those jobs needed to kill enough trees to print out all the copies of this bill.
I am sure that there isn’t any real damage to the environment (sic)
-Polaris
#436 We are talking about the same US congress are we not?
-Polaris
Great question Polaris … the finger pointing I’m sure has already started. Sounds to me like homeboy wasn’t fitting in at Walter Reed and instead of dealing with the touchy issue straight up there they moved him out to either give the problem to someone else, or hope the change of environment had a postive effect.
What’s scary is why do you send a questionable shrink to Ft.Hood, which has had one of the highest suicide rates in the army over the last couple years. (and I think that is accounting for the larger distribution of people there) BTW Ft.Hood is also one of those bases who had the whole reporting of personal weapons flair up last fall.
LOL yeah, lord knows we fund their offices with enough money what a silly thing for me to think they are using their IT dollars effectively.
#436: I guess you’re right… I just got a picture of Boehner with the bill on the podium. #438: Heh.
Of course, maybe they just won’t read it anyway.
KH and Polaris, how could this guy not be put on some sort of watch list? or at least, wouldn’t the people at Ft.Hood be given a heads up? Maybe he was… I dunno.
Goodnight folks.
5 lbs. of carbon dioxide per ream of paper. (non-recycled paper)
“Six months ago, the FBI investigated Hasan for statements purportedly made by him on the Scibd website that equated suicide bombers with a US soldier who sacrificed himself to save his fellow soldiers:
Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/11/muslim_army_major_be.php#ixzz0W3DCX1S6
”
Guess Eric Holder was too busy investigating those radical racist teabaggers to worry about this guy.
#441 I think Knight has the right of it, and I saw it myself when I was in uniform. There are too many commanders (or NCOs for problem children enlisted men) that don’t want to lower the boom on a problem child because the need to impose such discipline looks bad on their unit record. So what happens all too often is the problem child gets shuffled from one section to another and (often IMX) given little to no actual responsibility in the hopes that he (or she) will “go away”.
Failing that, such a person is put in for a transfer (often without telling the receiving unit what the problems are) with “good” or even “glowing” performance reports.
I sort of wonder if that sort of thing happened here.
-Polaris
#443 Al Gore would be proud
-Polaris
hmm isn’t that right about when those reports were coming out highlighting increased worries about right wing radicals. Perhaps there focus could have been on a greater threat.
In reality though even if this scumbag was being watched this morning I don’t know that it would have changed the outcome of today.
Guess Eric Holder was too busy investigating those radical racist teabaggers to worry about this guy.
Of course. Psycho radical islamic gunmen in the army is only a tiny neuisance. Who cares if a few soldiers get killed…it’s not like they’ll vote democratic anyway.
However, those radical racist teabaggers are *dangerous* since they might corrupt those that otherwise would vote for Obama.
You need to look at this with the right mindset.
-Polaris
#417
Dude,
That is just completely and utterly wrong
Freed slaves did NOT have suffrage and they were NOT citizens
This was a point of massive controversy during Reconstruction
After some time of sorting things out after the end of the war and Lincoln’s murder the 14th amendment was passed and Black suffrage and citizenship was imposed at the point of bayonet until Federal troops left the South after the 1872 elections
The Dred Scott decision pre-dated the Civil War and caused massive problems between the two sections because it implied two things:
1. Any slave master could take any slave into ANY state; theoretically this decision invalidated the ability of free states to prevent the entry of slaves into their borders
2. The decision specifically held that Dred Scott could not sue because he was not a person, and similar to real estate or livestock, without human rights at all
The implications of both of these inflamed and infuriated the North leading almost inevitably to Civil War
Just as fetuses now are not considered to be people, just in that same way was Dred Scott not considered to be a person, and that is the (completely fair) analogy between the two situations
“According to Lee, Hasan “made his views well known.” This sparked acrimony with other officers, who called him derogatory names during arguments.”
Me thinks these officers are kicking themselves for not taking Hasan’s rants more seriously and forcing the issue. They may not be to blame but if I were them I would feel like chit tonight.
MFG don’t entice ? to come back, the softcore eye candy eventually had it’s effect, don’t make me have to bust it out again.
#449 No, I am not wrong MFG.
A slave WAS considered a person. An african american was NOT considered a citizen. It was legal, therefore to deny a freed slave sufferage (and some places did) but a FREED SLAVE could get citizenship and could get sufferage.
What Dred Scott said was that since the plaintiff was an escaped slave, he was NOT automatically considered part of the class of people that could get citizenship.
Had he been freed by his original owner, the decision would have gone the other way.
-Polaris
MFG,
The decision said he couldn’t sue because he wasn’t a CITIZEN not because he wasn’t a person. Read the original text of the constitution again. Black slaves were counted as persons….at a 3/5th rate.
-Polaris
#421 and #424 The shooter could very easily get a semiauto weapon on FT Hood. They simply DO NOT search all vehicle at the gate as a matter of policy. The shooter being the military had a DOD ID stick his POV (thats military speak for car) and the guards would simply verify his ID and wave him in. No questions asked and no vehicle searches….or they have a verison of a “toll pass” issued to military and civilian at FT Hood too were a computer senors simply opens the gate….no humans at all checking IDs!
Him would simply put weapon in the trunk of the car and take out at the building and walk a short distance into the building….
Liberals will soon call for banning of all weapons at US military bases.
#454 I believe you (and I know what PoV stands for), but that means that the MPs did not do their job. All cars (even those with DoD stickers) are subject to search without notice for any (or no) reason.
In short, the regulations to stop this already existed on base. I’ll agree that they likely weren’t followed (and gate MPs tend to be very slack esp with cars with current military stickers).
-Polaris
#455 That already is effectively the rule. (No weapons on base)
Seriously
-Polaris
Some MSM twits will be talking about how Hasan acted this way because he was being forced to go to Iraq and he “hated violence”……
“That already is effectively the rule. (No weapons on base)”
I have been on a lot of bases. I never saw weapons outlawed on military bases.
#458 He hated violence? That’s news to the 12 people that he killed…but I guess they don’t count.
-Polaris
#452 You are correct that the court was LEGALLY correct by the Constitution as it was at the time (the 14th amendment fixed this).
The point I was making was simply the same type of sematics were used to dehumanize slaves and deny them status as person are used in the abortion debate.
I am reading the Fort Hood regulations. THere is no prohibition of weapons…
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=hand+weapon+regulations+fort+hood&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
No
Citizenship and suffrage were imposed at the point of a bayonet after the collapse of the Confederacy, and ONLY at the point of a bayonet, and only AFTER Radical Republicans in Congress insisted upon it
This is simple history
From the decision itself:
According to the Court, the authors of the Constitution had viewed all blacks as “beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.”
In fact on June 30 they changed it so that “personnel using privately owned weapons on Fort Hood no longer need to register the weapon.
#462 I said “effectively” the rule. I am sure you’ll find a lot of regulations on how weapons are to be stored, restrictions on how to check in ammo, etc.
Walk around base with a personal weapon, and the MPs (or SPs on an airbase) WILL have a very lengthy chat with you…..with some exceptions (such as explicit hunting or target shooting in approved areas).
I saw a fellow airmen get into deep water just for having a compound bow improperly stored in his barracks!
-Polaris
Polaris, I linked the regulations. Read it before digging deeper.
#463 Again no. UNIVERSAL African American citizenship and sufferage was imposed at the point of a bayonette. However, person =/= citizen prior to the 14th amendment.
There were citizen african americans (often freed slaves or descendants of) since the American Revolution.
-Polaris
#456 No, its highly impractical to search each and every vehicle so the post policy is NOT to do that on vehicles with DOD stickers on them unless their is STRONG probable cause to do so (ie weapon in plain site or say smelling of booze). To get a DOD stick you must be in the military or a civilian employee – its assumeed the background check to be in the military or hired are sufficent to get you a sticker.
Plus, like I said, they have a toll pass too that simply lets you in the gate without checks if you have a sticker and in the military/dod employee.
Their was simply no fault on the part of the MPs at all – they were following the policy as it is for the threat level at the time. If the threat level get raised, then yes there would we more strenous checks for all. But this was not the case today; it was a routine work day.
Jason,
I’ve lived on bases. The rules for personal weapons (at least on Elmendorf) were very strict.
-Polaris
I don’t doubt it. But at Fort Hood the regulations are pretty clear. Only if stopped you are supposed to declare the weapon. But you don’t have to register them.
Jason,
I read the regulations and they are quite strict although you’re right they apparently loosened them up. There is a “right of way” regulation as well (Ft Lewis and other bases have similar “right of way”).
The point is that increased regulation of firearms would not have stopped this. As Wylie mentioned, it wouldn’t have been practical.
-Polaris
#470 You don’t have the register them any more IF you live off-base. Otherwise you still do. You did prior to the latest change in regs.
-Polaris
Also remember Texas has liberal gun laws. The regulations even state that visitors may have weapons “according to the Laws of Texas”. So at least at this base not very restrictive, however it seems not enough people with loaded weapons were close enough to stop this guy.
#465 Your correct on the rules about no carrying of private firearms on post except to designated areas for hunting or target shooting….
However, he could simply have put the weapon in his POV. Parked close to the building. Made a short walk into the building without anyone really having enough time to react to the weapon. Or he could have concealed it in a box, etc….
Point is that all the rules, etc were in place but they wouldnt have been that hard to evade for a person with his intent espeically as he was uniformed military and therefore would be assumed to be following such rules….
“The point is that increased regulation of firearms would not have stopped this”
I agree.
#473 You are correct here too – the rest of the people would be following the rules so I am 99% sure there would have been nobody in that build armed so that all would have been totally relient on the MP response.
#474 Exactly the point I was trying to get at. Even with a total ban on firearms at base, this incident would likely have happened anyway.
Even the current regulations are sufficient that no one (other than MPs or those on special duty) are going to be armed. In fact I suspect there are far fewer firearms on most Texas military bases (outside of certain special units and places) than there are in most Texas small towns per unit of population.
-Polaris
Guys, you have to understand too that literally 50000 soldiers and thousand more civilians work at FT Hood. Most live off the post. There are THOUSANDS of cars trying to get on there daily. At the begining of the day for PT, going to work in the AM, and during lunch the rush hour traffic is huge. You simply cannot even think about searching each and every car as a matter of routine procedure. Thats why they have threat levels, etc to heighten security as needed…..
Plus, this and every other Army base in the US has literally hundreds of miles of unfensed training areas surrounding the main post. Its fairly easy for anyone to simply walk thru that area and on to the main post.
Even having guards at the gate is simply cutting off the simplest and easiest way for a threat to get in but it can in no way seal off the entire post…..
#477 – Yup. This was not really preventable, short of having an armed MP at every entrance way to every major building on site – not practical either.
#477 You are absolute correct in what you say here too
#478 Well, you’re right of course Wylie, which is why on base there are special places that have even tighter security where you really can be that careful (flight-line, comm center, “special unit” buildings, etc)
This actually emphasizes that tighter gun laws would not have stopped this from happening. I guess we all know that (but good luck persuading the libs).
-Polaris
Lol…we are all agreeing about the basic principle in passing. Any luck that the libs will figure this out?
[I wouldn't hold my breath....]
-Polaris
478 – For real, I know at benning even the stickered cars were checked, but it was only 1 in every 5, they all did have to stop and flash id though. I was only there once during a busy time (about 6am), it moved, but then again they had like 9-10 lanes and they don’t have a lot of gates.
#479 You are spot on with this statement. Plus, you have to remember the military relies on background checks to “prescreen” all soldiers before they are allowed to enlist or get commisioned. Ditto civilian hires to include contractors…..military dependents who live on post arent checked but its assumed that the uniformed members check covers that….
It would be assumed that all on the post were “checked” and OK…
Stranger/outsiders without DOD stickers or DOD ID cards are fully searched at the gate….they arent in the “club” that have been prescreened so to speak….
essentially, this person used his insider status and knowledge of the rules and polices to his advantage to commit this henious act…..
No amount of additional rules would have stopped this…..at least no practical or sane ones…..
Bottom line if you want to get something on base and it’s not large, you can get it on base. Gate folks are not to blame, this scumbag is to blame, and perhaps those that knew this guy was dangerous and didn’t take necessary action if in fact they did think that.
#481 Yep, but very few of the restricted access areas have armed guard either. Most now have security locks, etc to prevent access. Maybe the ASP would have guards but I doubt it, probably just a fence and MP response.
As stupid as it may seem, its actually a big hassle to issue live ammo to non-MP troops to guard things in CONUS so its not done much.
Basically any armed troops are doing live fire shoots on designated ranges for training. All strictly controlled as are all military weapons in very secure arms rooms…..
No I dont think liberals will grasp this. They will likely blame lax civilan gun purchase laws (he likely legally purchased the weapon he used) or else clamor to take 2nd amendment rights from soldier upon entry….both bad and misguided.
#486 It was a hassel, but on Elemdorf, the Flight-Line had armed guards and so did my unit which was an Electronic Security Unit (which is now considerd part of AF Inteligence Command).
In fact in both places the guards were authorized to use deadly force….it never happened when I was there, but there were some very close calls, and the base SPs told the “intruders/vistors” that they were lucky to be alive.
-Polaris
#485 He may have been a nut but unless this guy made some very specific threats stating what he was going to do or threatened people y name there is very little his superior officers could have done even if it was suspected he was a “disgrunted employee” so to speak…..military folks do have legal protects too and mere suspecsions or random talk about how we were “wrong” to be in Iraq, etc(as evident is being report) is not enough for the higher ups to take serious restraining actions against the officer
You guys are right about the hassel which is why virtually everyone on base will not be armed and certainly not in most administrative areas.
-Polaris
#487 Good observation there too Polaris. The various services are also much different in base OPS procedures. The AF and the navy simply have alot more restricted areas and high tech stuff to guard on there bases then does the Army or USMC. Ergo, much more armed security like you describe…
#488 True, but common freaking sense tells you that you DON’T transfer a bad apple (or flawed gear if you like) into a situation where he’s most likely to break. That’s my beef based on what I know.
-Polaris
So Polaris do you think the Democrats got the message on 3 NOV or will they persists in their HC takeover?
I say that takeover is still on track as the power transfer from people to state is simply to big to pass up….
#492 I think the Dems got the message. However, I think they got the wrong message and/or are completely misreading it.
To wit, I think the Dems now thing (judging from Kos, DU, and others) that the reason they got creamed was because they weren’t liberal enough, didn’t stand up to the blue-dogs enough, and they actually agree that they will get slaughtered in 2010.
They think the only way to prevent a 1994-like 2010 slaughter is to pass Obamacare with a robust public option and do so right now.
I know it sounds crazy, but I am as serious as a heart-attack.
-Polaris
#491 I dont disagree but poor performance off duties is a far cry from restraining a soldier based on him being suspected of being a violent threat.
His performance would have to have been very very poor for a long time to get him kicked out espeically if he was a mental health doc as they are in real short supply. Evidently, it wasnt too bad as it was said he had been promoted to MAJ within the past year or so….
Plus, eventually everyone gets transfered if they are in. He was commisioned in 2001…..you cant stay at Walter Reed for 8 years. Normally these days its 3 to 4 years tops at a post. Actually this guy probably stayed at Walter Reed longer then normal….
#494 There was probably a reason for that too (see my comments a few posts back about shifting bad apples). However given his comments about the middle east, while a transfer was overdue, transfering him to Iraq seems……dubious at best.
-Polaris
#493 Oh I dont think that sounds crazy at all as thats how they think.
Its almost taken on as gospel by the left that 94 happen due to lack of HillaryCare (the failure to “do something”)
Yeah, I think they are intent on doubling down on HC now…
Wylie,
Essentially I wasn’t talking about restraining anyone, but if you have doubts about a soldier in a particular slot, find a different slot. That’s all.
-Polaris
#495 Well again, that maybe true but since all he did was talk its not a concrete basis for negative actions against him – there simply seems to be no concrete indication he was a direct threat to anyone.
Those statements or opinons would not be counted against him in evaluating his performance either.
I am just saying, I dont beleive that his superior ignored any “smoking gun” or red flags on this guy and probably treated him as apppropritate based on his displayed actions/performance and within the constraits placed on them to take disciplinary or other actions without solid evidence. The soldiers still get a large measure of due process even in uniform.
#497 Well that not so easy either and really wouldnt have helped either if this guy was bent on hatching this scheme.
I know I am not explaining this well, but it could be that in fact there really was no basis to do anything to this guy….
I am sure the rectial exam type investigation will surely pounce on any leadership failure on the part of this guys superviors if found.
All I am saying is that nothing I have heard so far would have been cause to do much to this guy other then treat him like a solider in good standing…..
#499 You could well be right. However, I have heard some disturbing red flags if they prove to be accurate. If accurate, then some notation SHOULD have been placed in his jacket. Just the way I see it. BTW, such notations are routine (for example only a small segment of officers were considered qualified for nuclear duty and that required not only a high clearence but strict psychological screening)
-Polaris
“psychological screening”
—
For the psychologist.
#500 Well true its sound bad right now as they are being laid out step by step but doubtful anyone supervisor probably wont be able to put all those dots together to formulate a concrete reason to “flag” this guys records or kick him out….
Basically, alot of this guys actions consisted of making accusations against others for harassment, asking to get out of deployments, etc
But as strange as this sounds all of this is within his rights to ask his superiors for redress on….him asking or accusing cant be attributed negatively
Man, I know this sounds strange but today’s military is very much PC and differential to giving soldiers the benefit of the doubt and legal protetions…..not saying this is right or wrong but just the way it is. Also, this is not necessarily the choice of the military either as they are subject to civilian controls and political dictates.
I really think it would be unfair absent some more concrete info from the investigation that may come out to surmise that in the military handled this guy anything but correctly according to the rules in place for personnel now….
#501 Well other then basic entry level medical and background checks, a mental health doc would not get the kind of high security pyche checks Polaris mentions in #500. Its simply not a high security position this guy had.
The military hospital would do his professional (doctor) credeitaling according to whatever standards the state of TX and the military required. Pretty sure this would not have screened this guy for pyche either but cant say for certain….
Howdy Chekote. You ready for Guuiliani 2012 campaign yet?
chekote,
I got banned from bejohngalt for using a gay rights avatar.
And the only reason I even picked the avatar was because Huckabee was saying something about gay marriage so I changed my avatar for more effect.
Then again…I probably would have been banned eventually anyways.
But moral of the story is BeJohnGalt doesn’t like gay people or gay rights.
I wonder about this Marco Rubio race.
All the people who voted for Mel Martinez enthusiastically, and then during the the McCain-Kennedy debate were tearing up their GOP voter registrations in protest and swearing never to vote for him again.
Are these same people going to be excited to vote for Rubio who plans on doing the same thing? We probably need a third candidate for that race besides Crist or Rubio.
I think we can live with Crist or Rubio, thanks.
Islam is an evil religion, pure and simple and Hasan is one more example of it’s evil nature. When you can murder in the name of your religion, then that religion is evil.
I want Rubio
Why is Rubio better than Mel Martinez?
Martinez was very conservative with the glaring exception of his support for amnesty.
His approval ratings tanked.
So when Rubio does the same thing….isn’t this just a repeat?
Have you noticed that Marco Rubio doesn’t have an actual career other than professional politician?
Why is he better than Crist. They all seem the same to me.
Also…I know the physical traits shouldn’t matter, but he’s only 5′ foot 4”
He looks like a midget.
Marco Rubio is a fairy tale candidate: the Esablishment-endorsed anti-establishment alternative candidate to Crist.
Maybe he’s better. Maybe he’s not.
But this is still a giant yawn. We need a third candidate who could pressure them from the right if nothing else.
KOS PLANT!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!
508 – I suggest then Tim, that you read about the Inquisition. Lot’s of people kill for a variety of reasons and religion is usually a top one. Lot’s of nut cases who happen to be Christians kill because “God told then to.” The guy was a killer, who acted alone and happened to be Muslim and used his religion as an excuse.
But go ahead and use this incident to continue to fuel your hatred of anything that is non-Christian, as that is your ticket into Heaven. BTW, do you even know any Muslim people or families.
“BTW, do you even know any Muslim people or families.”
The ones I know don’t mass murder. But “this happens to be Muslim” is a lot of BS. This guy belonged to all sorts of organizations and subscribed to a lot of ideas advancing hate and suicide bombings. To deny that such ideas are popular in a significant part of the Muslim world, even in America, is extremely naive. There is no moral equivalency here. This guy was not a killer “acting alone” as Knova said. Much to the contrary, he was a killer acting out on a directive that is rampant in radical Islam. Nothing “alone” about him.
A guy who goes postal and kills 5 co-workers over job issues is a loner acting alone, there is no “culture” of killing co-workers. But in radical Islam there is a “culture” of homicide and suicide bombings and attacks. This guy might have been shooting alone, but he was a soldier of a cause.
Great thing is that this piece of Jihad Scum will be tried in Military courts. his lawyer will be a JAG.
The liberal Lawyers from the East and Austin are pissed that hey cannnt get this high profile case.
Ft. Dix, Ft. Hood. I still think this guy was recruited
Invalid11 might not be the dumbest troll ever to show up here, but frankly I can’t remember one dumber. The invalid part is not physical at all, is it?
Jason they have a video in full ihady getup at a Convienence Store.
A sleeper agent does not have to start out as one in the beginning. could have been recruited at any time.
I am in favor of a fair trial prior to execution.
Rubio on amnesty is tough Jason. He does have a point. Martinez was Pro-Amnesty, and if Rubio is too?
520. Jason Well said my friend.
Wow. I am now hearing the shooter is on a ventilator.
Guys at Freerepublic are saying “Bacon Dance” so the shooter cannot go to allah
Oh my GOD. shooter was wearing Muslim Attire at time of Shooting.
Sleeper Agent. I knew It.
I can’t say anything about this shooter that won’t get me in trouble.
Needless to say I hope he rots. If there is a lottery to pull the switch, sign me up.
Brutus, in his next life lets hope he is married to Roseanne Barr and washing dishes in a Jewish Deli.
The ones I know don’t mass murder.
Much to the contrary, he was a killer acting out on a directive that is rampant in radical Islam. Nothing “alone” about him.
So are you stating that the one that you know are either a) just waiting for their “directive” to kill, or b) which is more likely, do not subscribe to the notion of “Radical Islam” and perhaps practice their religion as peacefully as most Christians practice theirs?
Again Timothy McVeigh belonged to “organizations” that wanted smaller government, but I sure as hell don’t want him or his type equated with a movement that i believe in that wishes to rein in government excess.
You might as well say that the gun killed those people as well as Islam, as opposed to the individual that chose to use the religion as an excuse and the weapon as the means.
Well duh….
What was the problem with Mel Martinez? Name one problem that people had with him other than his support for McCain-Kennedy amnesty.
The base despised that guy for one reason.
Now Rubio is a repeat.
Knova, Army is now reporting that he was in Full Muslim Attire and yelled “Allah Akbar” before shooting.
I took a lot of crap here last night for saying this guy was a Sleeper Agent.
529 – I do not care what he was dressed as or what he yelled. His crime was an individual crime for whatever reasons that he chose to commit it.
The point that I am making, is simply because he is Muslim and subscribes to the more radical parts of it, then used it during his killing (like the gun that he had. Interesting, religion and guns, b oth protected by the Bill of Rights. But that is another discussion), does not mean that ALL Muslims subscribe to that notion.
Does that explanation make it easier to understand. Don’t paint all of them with the same brush. If they were the same then we would be in real trouble as there are over a billion of them worldwide, about 3 times the number of Christians.
Great you managed to attract Acroso…
Even if those 41 vote against the abortion portion,piglosi will release some of them to vote no on the overall bill, then withhold the rest to suppport it. These head counts are meaningless.