Health Care Debate Open Thread
Could we see a vote on Obama and Pelosi’s Health Care bill tonight in the US House. C-Span could be an interesting watch later tonight.
National Review remembers the vote for Bill Clinton’s tax hikes back in 1993. The reason I remember it most was I happened to be at Villanova University in my freshman year and a certain Congresswoman who represented the district near Villanova cast the decisive vote for the massive tax hikes in that bill.
The New York Times recalls, “As Ms. Margolies-Mezvinsky marched down the aisle toward her fateful moment, House Republicans sang, “Bye-bye, Margie.” A year later, their prediction came true. Winning 49 percent of the district vote to Ms. Margolies-Mezvinsky’s 45 percent, Mr. Fox joined 72 other Republican freshmen to end 40 years of Democratic rule in the House.”
It was one the first campaigns where I got somewhat involved (through the College Republicans) in helping to defeat Margolies-Mezvinsky and fifteen years later, I am still involved in politics. I still remember 1994 like it was yesterday.
It is something that those Democrats in swing districts will have to remember tonight as to whether or not to put their names on this bill….
First
94 will be a tea party for Dems in retrospect compared tó what is coming.
Speaker Pelosi: Your Blue Dogs are Howling
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=168828228434
Like many Americans, I’m very concerned about the efforts underway to rush through the 2,000 page Pelosi health care bill this weekend. Why the rush? That’s a lot of pages to read. Why not give everyone the chance to read it and debate it?
How much will this bill cost us? It’s unclear because the figures coming out of Washington keep changing – and always in the direction of costing more, not less. The latest numbers show it will cost more than a trillion dollars over the decade, but when has a government program ever come in on or under budget?
How will we pay for it? Taxes, of course – and not just on the “rich” (you know, the people who spur the economy by buying goods and running companies that employ people), but also on just about everyone, especially small businesses – the job-creating engine of our economy. One of the points of health care reform was to help small businesses with the cost, but this bill hurts them – and right at a time when so many Americans are out of work and need the jobs that small businesses produce.
What’s in this bill? The “death panel” provision is in it. Medicare cuts are in it. Coverage of illegal immigrants is in it. And federal funding for abortion is in it. I commend the many Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats who are taking a principled stance to fight this.
I had a message for Speaker Pelosi in a speech I gave last night for the Wisconsin Right to Life – “please, please don’t break the ‘transparency promise’ by prohibiting at least a vote of your colleagues on funding abortion-on-demand.”
Speaker Pelosi has already broken many promises thus far in this “reform” exercise. She promised that this would be a bi-partisan effort, but the bill she’s pushing isn’t bi-partisan. She promised that the final version of the bill would be posted online 72 hours before it comes to a vote so that the American people could clearly see what’s in it and how we will pay for it. But she broke that promise too when she decided to rush the bill to a vote this weekend.
The speaker must be held accountable for her broken promises. Now is the time for Americans who believe in the free market and who believe that we need policies that promote job growth instead of job loss to say once and for all, “Enough!” Stand up and make your voices heard before it’s too late. Call and email your representatives and tell them to vote “no” on Pelosi’s train wreck of a health care bill, or else we will vote “no” to sending them back to Washington when we go to the polls in less than 12 months.
- Sarah Palin
PS: For an idea of the bureaucratic maze that the Pelosi bill would create, take a look at this new chart put out by the Joint Economic Committee.
aaaarrrrrrrr Pelosi is all smiles and talking about the crap passing
Cinco baby! Cinco!
#5: Don’t worry about Pelosi’s smiles. She is out of touch with reality. She was all smiles, happily proclaiming, “We won last night” after Tuesday’s elections.
Hoyer said they got – cramdown baby, cramdown
Could be a bluff on Hoyer’s part. Show me the names so my guy can back out??
yes the Vet. provision. 280 million in Vet loans to be fogiven over the next 5 years.
If you service low income dogs or income individuals you are improving the healthcare of America. So your loans are forgive
Let ‘em pass it, bring it on!
There’s no path to 60 in the Senate
All she’s doing is setting a hopeless Pickett’s Charge in motion
Come on, pass a $3 Trillion bill in this economy
Bring it…
the Dear Leader to speak from WH at 1:15 pm……..
Keep in mind. Pelosi only needs 85% of the Democrats to win. The leadership will allow the Southern Blue Dogs (e.g. Nye in VA) to vote no while getting the 218 they need.
Stated as simply as I can; if this passes the House, it won’t pass the Senate and it will provide great campaign fodder for conservatives/Republicans to hammer the Dems in 2010.
The Dogs can’t hide. 80% of them will be unemployed come Jan of 11.
Yes, Marv, precisely
It won’t need to pass the senate Marv – it passes the house in its ultraliberal form and then merges with the senate bill in conference.
The conference bill will be only a slightly watered down version of this atrocity – and that WILL pass.
The only dogs that will survive will be the real Dem cons like Boren and Taylor. The phonies will be thrown out no matter how they voted.
Go pig! Pass this thing.
MD,
Seriously, did you suspend EPH from his consultant’s role or is he pouting somewhere?
MD, you don’t think the “no vote” dogs will gain cover.
I hope you are right.
This particular bill won’t pass the Senate.
But, a similar bill will – either with 60 votes for cloture, or with the Dems resorting to reconciliation. One way or another, Healthcare is getting passed.
The absolute worst thing the Democrats could do for their re-election chances now is NOT to pass a Healthcare bill.
Phil,
If that happens we will take the Senate. The timing is good since ACORN has been neutured. They will be back for 12 but 10 is too soon. Thank the 2 GOP kids who had the guts to expose them.
I never thought I would type that we had a shot in the Senate in 10. However, if they pass HC, then we just might take the Senate also. Then, we defunf the whole thing. Make Obama veto every bill. In the House, we may be able to override.
#15 Phil,
I’m anticipating that no Obamacare bill passes the Senate because as we head into an election year all these tough initiatives, such as Obamacare and Cap and Tax will slip into legislative oblivion in the Senate.
I wonder how the Lap Dogs vote. This is a pivotal momement in American Society. OBama Crap Care must be defeated.
Think about this, if the Rs take control of congress in 2010, we can shut down ACORN once and for all.
I personally think that if the States’ AGs sue and other sues, ACORN can be shutterd.
Phil,
It won’t help at all. The ads write themselves. Only the true con dems will survive. W will win seats that are not held by blue dogs.
Update: No votes: Nye, Edwards, McEntire Yes votes: Kilpatrick, Mitchell and Cooper according to Politico comments.
Mrs.Piggy on cspan makes me want to puke.
Marv,
No change in gallup. If Obama is going to fall under 50% from this weekend’s polling, I believe this is the weekend for it. He’s entering the weekend with his weakest number in quite some time.
Usually, he enters the weekend much higher from gallup.
The absolute worst thing the Democrats could do for their re-election chances now is NOT to pass a Healthcare bill.
Comment by Cory — November 7, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
You are monumentally clueless.
Though Hoyer and Pelosi are smiles, the final vote is now pushed to 10:30 p.m. according to Malkin. If they keep pushing back the vote, they ain’t got the votes.
CNN poll: 55% oppose.
#29 HD, Cory is right. If the Dems don’t pass a Healthcare bill they’re screwed because their liberal base will abandon them. However, the Dems are screwed either way, passage or no passage of any legislation.
Come on Piglosi bring it on with your Lap Dogs.
I just hope the Rs hold. Yes, Rinos, I am singling you out.
Mary Ann Marsh just mentioned on Foxnews that the govt needs to get involved because there is no competiton in health care. She is clueless.Health Care would work today if it didn’t have so many govt regulations already.
Hahahahaha
I nailed Chet Edwards – a predictable (fake) no vote.
“I voted against this bill because I stood up against big govt and big deficits”
(because they didn’t need my vote but I would have voted yes if they needed it to get to 218)
I wish Texas would matriculate the ball down the field better.
There liberal base will abandon them on Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanampo. So, who cares, they screw themselves, rather than this great country.
30 – Thanks for that update.
There will be less comptition on Obamacare. Fox is becoming unbearable to watch. First, they are apologists for the poor Jihadi whou wanted to psss out Korans. Second, their “news” hosts are largely sympathetic.
HD,
You owe all clueless people an apology for comparing them to Cory.
(to obamacare).
37 – Any decision yet from Obumbler on Afghanistan?
If the Dems don’t pass a Healthcare bill they’re screwed because their liberal base will abandon them. However, the Dems are screwed either way, passage or no passage of any legislation.
Comment by phoenixrisen — November 7, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
The libs are safe, the BD’s will die if they vote for it.
The WHOLE country opposes it.
It’s safer to vote no.
#29 I’m not so sure. If they don’t pass they are dead anyways like VA with zero chance of the base showing up. That leaves passing it as the only option. But I do agree with you that they shed more votes than they would gain from the base by passing it.
The problem I see, is that they are dead either way, so why not give Conservatives the middle finger and a big FU on the way out the door.
Vote at 10:30 PM. Hahahaha
That’s it Dems, vote on it when everyone is asleep. Good work Nancy – maybe no one will ever know about it.
This gets funnier and funnier.
#28 Tommy_Boy
We can’t be sure that today’s Gallup is out yet, because yesterday was a no change from the day prior.
Phil, Delays=no votes.
If they had them, they’d rush the vote.
What we saw O-men do is put his political manhood on the table with his visit to Capitol Hill.
It will either get chopped off or he’ll be in the “smilin’ dan” commercials for extenze or whatever that product is.
Do we have an hhr whip who can count how many no votes we have and update the count?
I doubt that he can even locate Afghanistan on a map.
Has he even read the intelligence report?
Any more connections between Hussein and Hasan?
Still, they don’t have the votes. It is going to pass and 80% of BD’s regardless of their vote are history as well as many in moderate districts.
Does anyone know what number time this is the president will be giving remarks on TV? 120th? 150th? 200th?
Coburn says bring it:
http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/06/why-we-love-sen-coburn-reason-325-dr-no-threatening-to-have-bill-read-on-senate-floor/
NRO reports that Kilroy (OH) is a yes.
#29 I dont think the Liberals are in the least bit worried about “losing” their wacko base – I mean where the hell else are these people going to go? The Liberal D are all in safe district anyways……
Not arguing that Howard – You’re right. However, if they do it I’m for it happening at 3 AM. Can you imagine the lousy PR for doing that? Even the networks will have trouble spinning that.
Bye bye Kilroy.
Buh Bye Kilroy!
Seems like Obama was just a wave and a grin after meeting with Dems. I still don’t think the Dems have the votes. Those phone lines on Capitol Hill must be burning.
#49 All R’s plus 23 Dems: http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Dem_no_votes_so_far.html
Lawrence O’Donnell told Olbermann yesterday that the Senate may delay this bill until next Fall.
I’m just passing the time until the Navy @ Notre Dame at 2:30. (1430 Hrs)
28 Noes
30 undecideds
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/66091-current-house-healthcare-bill-whip-count
H/T PP
Rule vote should be interesting:
Headline if it was GOP: “House votes to take over 1/6th us economy without allowing any debate”
Bambi does not look confident, not to mention he’s lying through his teeth about the contents.
#61 Tommy_Boy
NEXT FALL! Say again, your transmission was garbled.
Larry Kissell of North Carolina is a no. Smart guy. He’s got 4 GOP challengers itching to get a shot at him.
#50 – Tina not that I’ve seen online, I’m sure the cleaners are working overtime.
#63 — Just 13 more baby
Here is the difference. Most of the no BD votes will lose by 2 to 6%. The yes votes will lose by double digits. The trulu con dems will survive – all 8 of them.
We will also pick up an enormous amount of seats from mod dems and 1 or 2 surprises from lib dems.
They are now having a lottery to see who the lucky 12 out of the 30 “undecided” are who will be allowed to save their careers.
Anyone know the method? Drawing straws? throwing dice? How?
Wow I don’t know if he knows it but he just insulted all of congress.
Shuler is GONE if he votes for this.
#71 – Couple games of Russian roulette my sources tell me.
#63 Is there actually 12 more sane and patriotic Democrats out there?
Hussein is making me sick with a prep statement of lies and platitudes…..
“We only get one chance of a lifetime to grab power like this a create a permenant leftist state”
#73 – Could be gone anyway… but def. if votes for this.
True
#62
Marv,
I hope you’re rooting for the right team, and that isn’t the team subsidized by NBC.
Schuler voted for cap and trade. Does he want to double down? Go Heath. Let it all ride.
HD, Shuler told his constituents he would vote no in the townhall meeting. Absolutely right. By the way, do you or anybody have an updated list of nos right now? Politico and NRO is kind of slow updating their lists.
Marv,
Nope. The look on Olbermann’s face was priceless. O’Donnell was saying that Reid had effectively delayed a Senate vote until next year, which will just push the Senate vote back further because Congress has to get to appropriations bills.
Fox playing clip of animal house.
haha these cspan D callers are hilarious, they seem high.
They are like thieves in the night. Trying to pass this when we are all asleep and hoping that we will be too busy watching football tomorrow to notice the theft. That may work for a smaller bill, but there is no hiding from this one.
Obama didn’t look that confident in his Rose Garden speech according to various people who watched him. Keep the pressure on baby
I lived in DC when Shuler was drafted.
All you need to do is play that “Gunslinger” song written about him when he was at Tennessee. That will reduce his vote count.
Ruless have passed as expected. 4hrs 2 amdmts
#84 – It’s sort of amusing that they believe there is though.
And what impact did “Bill Clinton’s tax hikes” have on the economy in the 1990s?
Bart Gordon out of TN is a no according to a Red Stater who called his office.
#89 Slowed it down greatly. Good thing the PC and Internet were invented to create a whole new sector of the economy.
What Impact did the Bush Tax Cuts of 01 and 03 have on the economy?
I’ve got 31 Dems voting no by my count. Maybe I should compile a list LOL
#78 Brutus
The Mids!
Its not just Blue Dogs, see below:
There are a dozen first-term Democrats representing districts that Republican presidential nominee John McCain won last year. So far, six have announced that they will vote against their party’s health care bill.
Update, 5:43 p.m. ET: Now there are seven. The New York Daily News has just published a statement from hometown Rep. Michael McMahon, D-N.Y. He’s in the no column. “I believe the net negatives of this bill outweight the positive effects,” McMahon says.
Five of those announcements came today. All of the lawmakers who announced opposition cited concerns about the price tag of the legislation, estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to be more than $1 trillion over 10 years.
“After months of thoroughly reviewing legislative proposals and speaking with constituents and stakeholders, I am not satisfied that this bill before us is a sustainable solution,” said Rep. Frank Kratovil, D-Md. Alert readers will remember that he was the congressman hung in effigy during the height of the August town hall meeting uproar.
The other three Democratic freshmen from McCain districts who announced their opposition to the health care bill Friday are: Reps. Bobby Bright of Alabama, Walt Minnick of Idaho, and Suzanne Kosmas of Florida. Two who announced their opposition earlier: Reps. Travis Childers of Mississippi and Parker Griffith of Alabama. All but Griffith have announced their opposition since Election Day, when Democrats suffered humiliating defeats in the New Jersey and Virginia governors races.
Still on the fence: Reps. Tom Perriello, D-Va., John Boccieri, D-Ohio, Ann Kirkpatrick, D-Ariz., Betsy Markey, D-Colo., and Harry Teague, D-N.M.
Move along drive-by
Phoenix, when you add in the 31 to the Gops, how many have we got?
I don’t buy these no votes at all. When a no announcement comes out, it is permission from Pelosi to do so. She looks a little too smug for my liking. This is a rigged game.
#91 Not enough, there has to be 40 D opposed to join the GOP for this thing to be defeated….
If my math is right, if the R’s stay together we need to pickup 41 Dems.
92 – Not enough.
#97 I agree, this is all show and drama now going exactly by script
is this thing on cspan ? when do they vote /
#93
Marv,
It was a leading question. Using 24 clock is a dead giveaway.
Let’s just hope that Charlie Un-wise is as arrogant in his play calling as he has been for the last two year.
Go Navy!
Can we choose are cellmates ahead of time?
10:30 tonight is the latest I have heard.
The vote at 10:30 pm is prime time for the west coast. I sure the spawn of satan’s constituency will be up to watch the event.
This will pass in the House but die in the Senate. I hate Democrats.
#103 Brutus,
Navy will win today, in a stunning upset. Air Force will beat Army in a close, well played game by both teams.
#102 – Yes it is, they are close to starting 4 hours of debate (for everything total), it’s been reported final vote will be ~10pm tonight, seems to me could be a bit earlier as they are about to start debate in the next 10-15 minutes.
We’re sitting at 208 right now. We need 218. We’re short 10 votes from paydirt. A lot of undecideds still remaining. Personally, I don’t think it looks good when you look at the trend for Dems right now and where those undecideds are in the US. A lot of those undecided are in GOP leaning districts. We’ll have to just keep watching. You can’t take anything for granted. Obama and the lib Dems are desperate to get this passed and are using any bluff, scare tactic, most intense game of liar’s poker with the undecideds right now.
I meant doesn’t look good for Obama and Pelosi.
Weis goes for every 4th and 2 regardless of the situation. The guy thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. Notre Dame should have certainly been a title contender this year given their schedule. What other time will they get to face Michigan and USC with freshman qbs?
With that said, I’m surprised that they are only a 11.5 point favorite against navy.
I’m surprised that Shuler is saying he is undecided. He’ll get massacred if he votes yes.
They have 218. This is nothing more than theatre.
Gotta love that “and for other purposes.”
“This is nothing more than theatre”
—
It’s not even good theater.
#111 No, it all scripted you will see this monster pass with 218
Folks,
Let’s brace ourselves for a potential loss tonight. It will be a short term setback which will result in a long term victory later. The Senate won’t pass Obamacare and the Reps win in 2010.
Its either 218, its gets shelved or it loses by a bunch when dems flee the sinking ship so they aren’t a yes on an unpopular losing vote (see the ACORN funding vote for how that works).
Right now Pelosi has exactly 218. The only question is who the 218 are.
#119 Big D
How do you know that she has exactly 218?
One question, why push back the vote from 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. Why does Obama have to go begging to Capitol Hill? They still didn’t have the votes as of this morning so we’ll see. If they had the votes, debate would be suspended and they would furiously rush it. It’s make or break.
Educated guess. You can flame me at 10:30 if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty confident.
#121 The better the show/fiction the better the cover for the 39 D lucky enough to get to vote for against it….
Its in the bag….
Obama is up there for PR – now they will spin his “leadership” pushed it over the top….
ALL HAIL THE DEAR LEADER!!!!
They need the D amendment for the 218 votes, so those 4 hours is for the debate. So technically they don’t have the votes at the moment, but will when the amendment passes.
I’m still going with my 220 guess just to be different.
Yeah, I would gladly eat crow tonight if I am wrong…..
But I dont think so….unfortunately
Think of the debate the same way you see two celebrities fighting in the media. When its all over they are at the bar laughing at how stupid the American people are for buying the fake controversy.
124 – Unless it should fail for some reason
Course sources say the R’s will vote for that amendment and not throw a wench into things. Another missed opportunity.
Big D, I can understand your confidence. What I really like is a lot of these Blue Dog frauds in GOP districts are going to hang themselves today if this thing passes the House. It’s amazing the Dems try to vote legislation that the majority of Americans don’t want. Not to mention they are going to lose one of their main voting pillars (seniors). Once it gets to the Senate, Coburn and company are going to tie it in knots with parliamentary procedures. As this bill gets read and people find out more about it, the outcry and anger will be scary to imagine and see.
Knight, how would you play it? Have all the GOP vote present and force the amendment to fail so Stupak and company stay aboard?
college tution czar coming up on fox
Anyone who hangs their hopes on the blue frauds is setting themselves up for disappointment.
I’ll say it passes with 219 – but yeah, the whole thing is scripted.
Off to watch football.
That is how I would play it. VA told the R’s how the electorate is shaping up for 2010. Vote the amendment down force the D’s into an even tougher vote. Take the media hit and enjoy the electoral gains in November. Seems like an easy decision for me.
Also, you have just one R vote yes and crow about how the R’s were bi-partisan in the vote. Just a friendly middle finger to the media to let them know that the gigs up.
Just to be clear post #133 was in reference to the amendment vote not the HC vote.
Let em pass it in the house. The way I see it the more that vote for it, the more that let their political career walk the plank tonight. The senate will not pass anything meaningful, Nancy is just a delusional old tart.
polls are going on right now. The blueest of the blue dogs may take bullets for Pelosi.
Who knows????
130 – Yeah I would try and have that amendment go down to monkey up the deals. However they might have convinced the hard core libs to vote for it incase we pulled something like that so it may have no effect, but I see no real harm in not trying it. If it works come 10pm they are going to have some problems, or will have to start arm twisting all the way up to the deadline and that may freak out other borderline votes. In short, just cause as much chaos as possible.
There are at least 218 Democrats who want to see this bill passed, but there are not 218 who have committed to voting yes.
What’s happening now is the House leadersip, and the Whitehouse, are pushing for commitments. Most fence sitters will wait as long as they can, to see if other fence sitters commit . One way or the other, they should have 218 before the vote is taken.
I also hope Boehner reads the whole bill when he gets his majority leader time. That would be a beautiful thing. Read a 2,000 page bill. How lovely.
From A Senior GOP Hill Staffer [Robert Costa]
On the Stupak amendment:
Boehner, Cantor and Pence will all be voting YES on the Stupak amendment, and are putting the word out to members about it.
—-
Dummies.
Cory thanks for that brilliant legislative insight from up there in Canada.
It will be funny if they loose, since i bet Nancy got botoxed for this occasion; she wont be able to stop smiling.
No problem, KH.
You know Knighthawk, that seems to be a double-edged sword with the amendment vote. Put Stupak and the other pro-life Dems in a quandry but then the GOP would also have some explaining to do.
If she wasn’t sure she wouldn’t have kicked off the process.
144 – I already said that above. But what does it really matter none of this is implemented for years, and it’s clear your trying to gum up the works. If your so sure your going to win back so many seats who’s to say you wouldn’t have the votes to change it next year?
Knighthawk,
There’s no way the GOP picks up enough seats to withstand an Obama veto of any repeal for the final two years of his term.
More confirmation Knighthawk. Looks like the GOP House leadership has dismissed the strategy you and I talked out.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/66803-gop-leaders-to-vote-for-stupak-amendment
More obama vs. Bush contrast
GW and Laura quietly slip into Ft. Hood to visit families and request no press or photo’s.
Bambi – Runs to congress this morning, followed by some time in front of the TV camera’s on HC, and is off to Camp David for the weekend.
148 – I’m aware of that see #140.
#147 – My point though is what does it matter? This thing is going to goto conference and become whatever they want it to become, assuming they even get it through the senate some how so there is no real risk?
You know Knighthawk and Big D, I think you’re right. I think the Dems may have the votes. Interesting that some Dems voted not to have the bill come to the floor.
http://news.firedoglake.com/
I think Shuler will be a no vote. He voted no to have the bill come to the floor but I don’t think it is going to matter.
152 – Good link, states what I’m talking about that it’s just a shame amendment likely to be removed anyway.
Somebody on Redstate is reporting that Stupak says he has 220 votes to pass amendment. Anybody get confirmation on this?
Here it is. Politico is reporting this. http://www.politico.com/livepulse/
KH, #149 That’s not fair.
Ogabe did give a shout out.
Oh, that wasn’t to FT Hood.
Never mind.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-We-cannot-fully-know-motive-of-Ft-Hood-shooter-in-address-on-killings-president-celebrates-diversity-of-armed-forces-69457667.html
Down goes Iowa. It’s only a matter of time before Cincinatti succumbs.
Oregon, Texas, and the winner of Florida/Alabama seem to be the frontrunners for the championship.
(Parentheses are my updates) — List of undecideds
Melissa Bean — Yes
Dennis Cardoza
Jim Cooper — Yes at 11 a.m.
Jim Costa
Lincoln Davis
Betsy Markey
Michael Michaud
Scott Murphy
Bart Stupak
John Barrow
Marion Berry
Rick Boucher
Ben Chandler
Joe Donnelly
Tim Holden — (No)
Mike McIntyre — No
Harry Mitchell
Heath Shuler
Zack Space
Allen Boyd — No
Gabrielle Giffords — (yes)
Dan Maffei
Ron Klein
Glenn Nye — (No)
Michael Arcuri
Henry Cuellar
Chet Edwards — (No)
Brad Ellsworth
Paul Kanjorski
Ann Kirkpatrick — (yes)
John Boccieri
Chris Carney
Steve Driehaus
Bob Etheridge
Marcy Kaptur (Yes, if Stupak amendment passes. Hopes amendment doesn’t fail.)
Dennis Kucinich
Ciro Rodriguez
Kurt Schrader
Adam Smith
Gary Peters
Tom Perriello
Revising my count, I have 29 Dems on record as saying no. Must have miscounted.
To give you a sense of the Stupak amendment.
There are 190 members of the Abortion caucus.
if you can another 10 folks who are pro-abort but do not caucus with them you get 200 votes against Stupak
Correction. I guess it is whose list you look at. You look at Politico and you get 29, you look at the Hill and you get 31.
dennis the menance Kuninich is a no on any bill without single payer. He is pissed at not having at least an option to vote on single payer.
Will he bring this bill down on principle? Will he be the Ron Paul of the democrats?
The Sanchez sisters and a few other ultra liberals are unhappy with the immigrantion language in the bill plus the abortion rider that will pass.
I think if Nancy gets to 216 Sanchez and Dennis the Menance will cave.
155 – why wouldn’t he?
The House should have passed a resolution thanking our troops at Ft Hood and condmening the jihadi.
Instead, a resolution to praise the Yankees.
eph mentioned this elsewhere:
AP: Recovery? What recovery?
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/07/ap-recovery-what-recovery/
165 – Yup and one to celebrate the 20th anniversary to the end of the cold war.
Has the Obumbler or the Vice Dummy gone to Ft hood yet?
Its as if they do not care.
Where’s Waldo the Obumbler?
Tina
Sadly they dont. You know, its not as if any of didnt already know his (Obama’s) position on the troops, and the military in general. Lets face it the only thing he offered up to cut was the militarys budget, but his cold remarks about the tragedy only go to confirm his total lack of interest in anything to do with the military.
Here is something I want to offer up…Is this his Katrina moment. I know the media wont allow that to happen, but lets ask ourselves, is his refusal to go to Fort Hood (President Bush has already been) any worse than Bush’s reaction to Katrina. What does everyone think?
Wouldn’t have to be far worse, it’s not like there is much preventing him from going. Then again I wonder how many at Ft. Hood really want him there, isn’t one painful event enough for the week?
“The news comes as the Pentagon disclosed that it has sent 150,000 doses of vaccine for the H1N1 swine flu virus to Qatar for distribution to U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan – half of what U.S. Central Command has requested. ”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/06/rare-virus-poses-new-threat-to-troops/
The Shout oout line is the worst momement.
Since they loathe the military, I would expect them not to go.
But the shout of momement – was “scrubbed” by the military.
Look for more ties between Hasan and Hussein in the next few days.
Navy 14 nd 0 Half
Wide right, darn it.
#160 If most of those on the “undecided” list are not among the 31 (or 29) D no votes then there is alot of political suicide to be had….
Lots of them are in R leaning districts…
241-192. Here’s a list of Dems who voted no:
Jason Altmire
Brian Baird
Dan Boren
Bobby Bright
Artur Davis
Charlie Melancon
Gene Taylor
Travis Childers
Parker Griffith
Jim Marshall
Walt Minnick
Ike Skelton
Heath Shuler
Loretta Sanchez
Frank Kratovil
Bob Inglis reports he is concerned about the strong Dem vote this morning on bringing the vote to the floor. However, a Dem colleague told him they still don’t have the votes. http://thehill.com/blogs/twitter-room/other-news/66821-inglis-worried-about-pending-vote
#138 No crap, eh? Of course ALL the D WANT fully socialist single payer government run health care lol
They just dont want to be honest about there intent in their bill and use orwellian double talk to sell it….
Of course they will get 218 votes exactly so that as many liars as possible can save their skins so that they will be up there after 10 to be pushing more statist laws….
The D are statists and utopian socialists so OF COURSE they are all for expanding government control over your lives and taking away your liberties – thats what they do and beleive in!
I think we are done for. If this thing passes today, its bye bye good old USA. Sure it will get watered down in the Senate, but once something passes, it can get massaged all they want. This should be called the “Destroy what little is left of the US Economy Act”
What if hundreds of thousands refuse to comply…can they realisticly put us all in jail?
A law is only a law if it can be enforced.
#180 Civil disobediance may be only only hope….
Of course, far more people are attending ONE meaningless college football game then are at DC rallying against this abomination of our liberty….
So I dont hold out much hope for the future….
You are correct, they just need the foot in the door and they will proceed to tweek and reregulate it endlessly unitl there in nothing left of our economy, HC, or freedom
Since using force doesnt work they will always double down with MORE government force…..this essentially what this HC bill – use of massive Federal government force to supposedly “fix” the failures of previous state level and federal level interventions…..
of course, the free market will be blamed all the way along….
#180
It can be reversed. Let’s not panic.
George W. Bush and Laura visisted the families and wounded at Fort Hood. Where is our esteemed CnC? Jackass.
Can’t get out of the Senate
Watch
If and when this passes, Obama can kiss goodbye a big chunk of indies in ‘12
Let them vote for Medicare cuts. The ad write themselves for next year.
Pelosi/Obamacare won’t even get a vote at the very earliest by spring. Dems are howling already.
Comment by phoenixrisen —earlier post
Whatever you’re smoking, stop now before they catch you. This crapola is a done deal. What we are watching now is smoke and mirrors to entertain the sheeple.
~~~WBSTTM~~~
The new congressman from NY-23 has already broken 4 campaign promises.
Drudge linked to the NY paper that said so, and it has crashed.
Marv,
How is Navy up 14-0 on Notre Dame?
Not smoking anything DQ. Just stating facts. Coburn is going to shut down the Senate with parliamentary procedures. The Dems would need 60 votes to bypass. Not going to happen.
Weis will get his walking papers if they lose this game.
It can be reversed. Let’s not panic.
Comment by Chekote
Once the sheeple have supped at the gubmint bosom, they won’t let go. It is an historic fact of nature.
~~~WBSTTM~~~
Sometimes I get the feeling that DQ/IP wants this bill to pass so that he can go on about the “sheeple”.
Not smoking anything DQ. Just stating facts. Coburn is going to shut down the Senate with parliamentary procedures. The Dems would need 60 votes to bypass. Not going to happen.
Comment by phoenixrisen
It will be fun to watch, but that tactic can only carry so far. Leiberleft will cave, or some GOP rino will junp the shark. I wish you to be correct, but alas ~~~WBSTTM~~~
Once the sheeple have supped at the gubmint bosom, they won’t let go. It is an historic fact of nature.
Oh shut the hell up. Welfare was reversed. This bills will do nothing to lower premiums and that’s what the majority of the people care about.
#189 Tommy_Boy
Notre Dame had the ball four times in the first half and did not score. Navy had the ball three times and scored twice.
ND grad here and I win either way. We win or we lose and weis is fired.
Sometimes I get the feeling that DQ/IP wants this bill to pass so that he can go on about the “sheeple”.
Comment by Chekote
That “feeling” is PMS, and at this point, there is no other name for them.
Yes, IP. It is all over. This country is doomed. Why don’t you go the nearest bridge and jump off? All is lost. America is finished.
Oh shut the hell up. Welfare was reversed.
Comment by Chekote
Dream on. The “welfare reform bill” is all but dead, being transplanted with the phony SSI/SSD programs. ADC payments are higher thanever.
Instead of giving so much attention to the abortion provision which will be reinstated by a judge should this bill pass, why not focus on the fact that it will do NOTHING to reduce premiums?
#200
It is all over. Time for you to jump off the nearest bridge.
15 blue dogs voted to keep this POS off the floor.
Hahahaha
Has everyone enjoyed this little phony theater we’ve been treated to by those rocks of “fiscal responsibility” the blue dogs?
Had enough yet gang? Ok, now it’s almost time to raise the curtain on Act II where we find the 15 are joined by another 10 or so super chicken shit “blue dogs” who vote a resounding NO – knowing all along that the bill will pass by a majority of 2. Wow, what a surprise. It pased by just the barest of bare shin of it’s teeth. It was a real nail biter wasn’t it.
I assume that there is some sort of political reward for not publically announcing how you will vote. I mean if 40 democrats announce as “No” the stampede is on and 10 more vote No. May vote for an unpopular bill if can avoid political pain.
So the Whips say “don’t say how you are voting”.
Of course blue dogs will almost certainly let their buds know.
I still cannot decide if Pelosi is doing this charade for her base and she does not have the 218. if so she drops the “public option” and gets 225 votes to pass a terrible bill but the left is appeased as she tried.
or she gets to 218 and folks fall on their sword cap and trade like.
Like I said all along.
#195 One specific program (aid to family with depedent children) was reformed (not revered or repealed) in Welfare. The rest of Welfare (food stamps, public housing, etc) was never touched. And even the minor changes to AFDC were ended as part of the “DeStimulus” bill.
So its very naive to think HC psedu reform will be revered or repealed.
This has NEVER been done in the history of any major democratic nation especially our own….so yes, people should view this HC battle in a very serious light.
You are correct that people are concerned about premium costs and that ScaryCare will cause them to soar, however it will be demogouged as the fault of the “free market”.
wylie
The reason the Dems got control of Congress was because the Iraq War dragged on and on. People didn’t vote, especially young people, to get fined if they don’t purchase insurance. Besides, it will take years to implement. I am tired of everyone acting like life is over if this or that bills passes. Stop yelling “wolf” everytime you don’t like a bill.
Yes, IP. It is all over. This country is doomed. Why don’t you go the nearest bridge and jump off? All is lost. America is finished.
Comment by Chekote
there you go again, pokin your fingers in someones eye…
come on now chek, here i go tellin folks you’ve “mellowed”
you tryin to make a liar out of me ?
there you go again, pokin your fingers in someones eye…
I am sick of him constantly acting like it is all over for America. It is almost as if he is cheering for things to go wrong so that he can go on and on about the sheeple.
#209
Look lisab doesn’t want to come back here. You have tried but she obviously is happier at RP.
ruh..roh..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6521758/Fort-Hood-shooting-Texas-army-killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html
Either way, Republicans will beat the Blue Dogs in 2010 AND make fun of them for being Nancy Pelosi lap dogs for the next 12 months.
#207 Chek, we are the opposition we are supposed to cry “wolf” when the majority tried to push bad legislation.
You spout completely unrealistic secenarios…..
I am taking a rationally pessimistic point of view…..
Per Rep McDermott (D) of Washington “This is the biggest social change in 100 years” on Fox right now…..
Oh, nothing to see here, yeah we can just overturn this in a week or so after we vote in all those moderate pro-choice R in 10….
Yeah, nothing gets overturned. The Marxist in the white house has a veto pen.
IP,
What is:
WBSTTM
???????????????
Cantor says 31 firm NOES.
This is going to be a partisan boondoggle.
#214
Just don’t overdo it or the people will stop listening.
Per Rep McWorter of MI (R) – “This is the most regressive bill in the history of mankind”
I agree
I still think this bill will not pass, but honestly, if it gets through it will be political herpes, with us for life…
Of course I would like to see the bill defeated. I think it is remarkable that Pelosi/Reid are struggling so much given the numbers they have in Congress. But let’s look at the positive. The BlueFrauds (thanks MFG) will be exposed. Anyone who goes to Congress and votes to put Pelosi in charge of the agenda is NOT A MODERATE.
177 + 31 = not enough.
What a fricken surprise.
#219 Chek, are you talking about me personally here on HHR or opposition strategy in general to HC?
If its me, well we all throw out 2cents in here at HHR….
For opposition to HC, I think you are correct in that you need to hit a broad range of themes and target specific age demographics….
Its that it just hits SO many areas its hard to focus on just one as there are many people who have one specific concern only in the bill…
For example, you care about HC premium costs as your top concern….
I am concerned about lossing Individual Rights….
Other about taxation or deficits….
I have been at town halls where some are opposed SOLELY due to abortion funding or Medicare cuts…..
You have to get the mix of messages correct to build overall opposition….
Its the true believers vs those who still have a conscience.
Can the Libs permanently turn us into Canada/UK ?
Phil, There are still some undecideds.
Can’t count on the BlueFrauds, that’s for sure…
Can the Libs permanently turn us into Canada/UK ?
Comment by Charles — November 7, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
IMO, if this is signed into law, it will be the tipping point.
The country will come apart at the seams.
The worst thing about this bill will be the disastrous rationing of care that will result, the Canadian system is in ruins with only 30 million population, there’s no way the system set up by this bill can handle 300 million Americans
You’re going to see waiting lists of seven, eight months, maybe even a year for some things; many health problems you’ll just be left to die
This is the worst bill in the history of the US; if passed, I actually think there is the possibility of civil unrest when people see how bad it is
You know, this could be another “inevitability” tactic being used by Pelosi. You know, open debate and then have a vote set. The point being to put pressure on the Blue Frauds and depress the opposition. She’s done this so many times already. If a vote doesn’t happen tonight then it was all just a bluff anyway. There is a lot of theatre going on the floor but won’t know what it all means until late tonight. However, I could be wrong. I don’t have a clue of where things stand. They have been the same for the last few hours. Stuck at 31 Dem no votes. Up in the air if we’ll get the 10 other votes and from where. DQ, Coburn can tie it up forever if Reid can’t get 60 votes to override him to cut things off.
Wait’ll someone tells Grandma she has to wait a year to have her brain tumor treated…
There is one piece of good news. ND will be getting a new coach now.
WBSTTM~~We Be Screwed To The Max.
My brother in law is a doctor
Every doctor in the country over the age of 55 who has a few $$$$$$$$$$’s will consider retiring if this POS bill passes
Coburn can tie it up forever if Reid can’t get 60 votes to override him to cut things off.
Comment by phoenixrisen — November 7, 2009 @ 5:28 pm
Hope you be right.
IP
LOL!
#232 “WE” spend 75% of total HC cost on Grandma’s last 6 months of life…..
How can we “allow” that to happen, why those “progressive” eurotrash states have a socialist medical system that spends 1/2 as much share of GDP then we do….
The “compassionately” make sure grandma gets killed off by making sure she comes out on the wrong end of a technocrats spreadsheet….
Why, this is soooo humane, so sophiticated….
Yes, we must allow the government to make these decisions for us!
Yes, the people must not be trusted to make their own medical decision or be foolishly allowed to spend their own money to needless prolong their own or a family members life!!!!
ScaryCare MUST pass!!!!
Wylie
I am talking in general. I would prefer that the bill is defeated; however, should it pass it will be a disaster for the Dems. Premiums will go higher when people figure out that paying the penalty is cheaper than to buy insurance. Cost will go higher as people wait to get sick to purchase insurance. Waiting lists for seniors. It will be a disaster. We needed a Carter to get a Reagan. We needed a Dinkins to get a Giuliani.
I spoke to a super liberal pharmacist recently WEC and he admitted to me that the bill wouldn’t work, but it should pass because it was “fair”
That a*****e will go to the head of the line so he doesn’t care
Public option (for you, not for me!)
Public schools (for your children not mine!)
Liberal scum
Hypocrites every one
the problem is I think a large portion of the population would ‘adjust’ to nationalized health care.
Look back at the country before all the New Deal programs were put in place. No one back then would have imagined the country accepting and continuing the vast majority of those programs. They probably would have the same doubts and fears about the country coming apart as well.
#226 None of these people are Undecided – they support the government HC takeover cause thats what they are at their core being: petty statist tyrannts….
They are just casting lots to see who the luck 9 are that Queen Nancy will allow to vote NO to give them a chance to hold their seat…
Charles, I just don’t think the people will tolerate the waiting lists and the rationing
Senior citizens are spoiled here with their health care, they’ll never put up with the **** people put up with in Canada or Great Britain
#239 Plausiable theory, but one not worth ruining millions of lives over…..or losing our individual rights either…
Plus its equally as likely that the D can successfully demogouge the free Market more and push for much worse (ie true single payer)
#243
BINGO!!!!
Charles, There is only so much people will take.
We are not doormats.
You have seen the massive TP demonstrations, right?
When has the right ever done that, outside of pro-life rallies?
We are approaching end-times.
Look at the people that make up TX, OK, MS, TN, MT etc…
Do you see millions of those people accepting socialism?
I don’t.
What do I win, Chek?
LOL!
#244
If premiums don’t go down, all bets are off. If the waiting lines get longer, all bets are off.
Politico
Breaking: Dems say they have 218 votes for PelosiCare
#246
I don’t either.
Do you see millions of those people accepting socialism?
I don’t.
Comment by Howard Dean
They might not “accept it” in principle, but with a gun at your head, there will be little choice. The people of the soviet union never liked communism, but they were made to accept it. Once the dependency is established, people will willingly adjust to their chains. Social security/medicare et al are classic examples.
#251
The Soviet Union is gone. So much for you theory that nothing is reversible.
Howard, if that is true the GOP takes the House in 2010.
The Blue Dogs who voted no or Yes will be beaten, no cover. Tehy all Pelosi for Speaker
If premiums don’t go down, all bets are off. If the waiting lines get longer, all bets are off.
Comment by Chekote
The premiums may be artificially lowered by gubmint fiat, but to make up the deficit, the taxes will go up, as insurance co’s go under, forcing more sheeple into the “public taxpayer” option.~~TANSTAAFL.~~
By the time they start feeling the pain, it will have been too long established to turn back, as all they need is a 51% constituency for it, which they probably already have now.
Blue dogs~~~Hog dogs
Yes, IP is it all over.
The Soviet Union is gone. So much for you theory that nothing is reversible.
Comment by Chekote
Yeah right, it only took 80 years for it to fail.
Democrats are trying the standing room only ploy. Lets all rush out to vote for Pelosicare as we already have +218 votes.
Right
Show me the votes and I will believe
Cantor: 33 Dem No votes now
#259
Don’t we need 41 Dems to vote no and all the GOP needs to hold?
WORLD IS COMING TO AN END…
AMERICA IS DEAD…
Good grief…
Get a grip and grow up…
The House was supposed to be the EASY vote and look at what happened…
The Senate is not going to do crap…
Senate will pass no bill this year and this thing is going to bleed into 2010…
#261
WOW! Hunter and I agree.
Piglosi will allow just enough blue hogs to defect to look good back home, but reserve just enough to pass it.
Yes Check that is true. It looks like 37-39 Ds will vote no.
Guys 33 no Votes from DEMS make it 225-210. This is dead in the Senate.
This vote has no margins and is DOA to the likes of Dorgan, Conrad, Nelson, Lincoln and Landrieu
It looks like 37-39 Ds will vote no.~~~AC1
Yep, but they still secretly support it.
15k penalty for not getting insurance??? DOA
That is Trotsky Like and start a Revoulution
This vote has no margins and is DOA to the likes of Dorgan, Conrad, Nelson, Lincoln and Landrieu
Comment by Felix —
Those “nargins” we see aren’t real, because most of the blue hogs do in fact support it. That fact won’t be lost on the senate, as they know how the game is played.
I’m going to lean on Landrieu hard, I’ve been emailing her every two or three days I’ll start doing this daily
She wants to vote for this, however, at least that’s what it looks like to me…
pelosi is probably shooting for 220 votes, but basically pelosi can ruin a dem’s chance at reelection so all the blue dogs will do what she says.
the senate will be the same
now if you reps would just stop being greedy and start hiring people too that would be great. i guess you are too busy shooting muslims to hire people huh
pelosi must be careful or they may switch sides.
15k penalty for not getting insurance??? DOA
That is Trotsky Like and start a Revoulution
Comment by Felix
As part of the house bill,that part may never even be debated in the senate, and may or my not survive the conference. I wouldn’t trust the dem conferees not to accept it.
That’s a good point, Hugh!
At what point might a BlueFraud simply tell Nancy, “Back off ***** or I’ll change parties!”
Republicans would embrace any BlueFrauds who did this, and even the most clueless Dem has got to know the R’s probably win the House in ‘10
She wants to vote for this, however, at least that’s what it looks like to me…
Comment by MFG
Too bad she was just elected. She is now working on her historic “legacy”, and probably won’t run again anyway.
At what point might a BlueFraud simply tell Nancy, “Back off ***** or I’ll change parties!”
Comment by MFG
If they had any integrity to begin with they would never have run as repubs to begin with.
Yes, IP, she feels safe having just been reelected, if she were up in ‘10 there wouldn’t be one chance in hell she’d go for this POS
I’m still going to email her daily
Anyone here from LA email Landrieu every day
I’m very very polite about it
I have no idea if anyone even gives a crap, but I’m going to try
Any Lap Dog that switches is likely to going to be challenged and justifiably so. Because once you betray one set of beliefs why would anyone trust you again?
The question for the Senate is Do you want to sacrifice your seat now (possibly) in return for ensuring political dominance for the duration of your life in public service and beyond?
The US economy would have to smash beyond the Great Depression levels to get rid of Nationalized health care if implemented.
If they had any integrity to begin with ,they would have run as repubs in the first place.
Shocker: LSU 15 Alabama 10 late although Alabama is about to score
The US economy would have to smash beyond the Great Depression levels to get rid of Nationalized health care if implemented.
Comment by Charles
In such another depression, the masses would be even more dependent upon gubmint largess,so it would be an unlikely time to repeal any entitlement program, although the lack of economic activity would require a definate cutback in some of the goodies.
Held ‘em to a FG
Wow
15-13 LSU
definite
Intrade must know this crap will never pass the Senate.
6.5% to buy
Qui, that is what. there is no cover for no voting Blue Dogs.
They voted Pelosi as Speaker
Note Felix that that means passage by 12/31/2009
However, if it can’t pass now, why would it pass in an election year?
Stall, stall, stall is our strategery
Blue hogs==vote for it and get hammered out of office by the constituents,vote
against it, get hammered in the primary by piglosi and friends.
Not going to be a good year for blue hogs.
Crap
LSU down 21-15
Come on, one more drive, this game is winnable…
However, if it can’t pass now, why would it pass in an election year?~~~MFG
Unfortunately it is in the process of being passed.
I don’t have a dog in this race.
AL scores-roll tide
MFG agreed.
Whatever happens tonight, we will have public record of many DEMS who voted for this crap.
Gop challengers will be given a free silver bullett without spending one Dollar in Advertising.
Ellsworth and Stupak are scum, Pro-Life is great, but they are voting fo socialism and the Public Option.
The reason they haven’t voted in the Senate is they don’t have the votes
If they don’t have the votes in November 2009 why will they have them in 2010 an election year…???
RDEL no dog in what race?
MFG, LSU has a terrible QB
Here’s another point about the supposed 218 democratic votes.
How would you know what Dennis the K would vote?
What if 20 GOP types go to the bathroom and Stupak’s amendment fails? How many dems would then vote no?
I say the Lying and the promising is going on right now.
I see the seeds of folly in Immigration and Hyde amendment when and if the senate ever passes a bill.
Nancy does not have her 218.
No kidding
I went to the Tulane game and it’s more obvious when you see him in person
Helluva team, no QB
*sigh*
Final Score:
(I’m posting these because the libs hate it)
Navy 23
Notre Dame 21
Air Force 35
Army 7
Coast Guard 20
Framingham St 13
The ads for 2010 read very easy for Dems in GOP leaning districts. “A vote for (Dem Candidate) is a vote to keep Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House.” No more hiding behind the curtain.
Rdel, I think two more no. Ross of ARK and Lincoln of Tenn, 35 now.
Ross is a big Blue Dog
My ad:
(Insert Dem rep name here) voted to slash Medicare by $500 billion
Phoenix, the vote does not matter. No cover, they are DEMS.
If they don’t have the votes in November 2009 why will they have them in 2010 an election year…???
Comment by MFG
Because someone always caves to pressure. Remenber, their isn’t a viable testicle in the entire senate.
We’ll see
Obama gets weaker every day politically
If it can’t get out of the Senate in November 2009 it won’t get out in 2010
Gonna lose to Bama
Rats
SEC has slipped this year, I’d be surprised if the SEC wins the national title this year
If it can’t get out of the Senate in November 2009 it won’t get out in 2010
Comment by MFG — November 7,
Send me some of that wacky tobacky.
Since when does Princess Nancy tell our reps how to vote. They represent their districts, not her needs. This is what is wrong with America. Our leaders need backbones and bring it home for their voters.
Look for employers profiling to-be workers. If you are overweight, breath funny, shuffle when one walks, one will probably not get the job. Who would want to insure an employee that will ultimately cost the employer money? Listen up workers, one best be presenting a healthy presence when interviewing for jobs. Pinch the cheeks, suck in the gut and go to the interivew.
If you’re right why hasn’t there been a vote in the Senate?
They don’t have the votes
They don’t have the votes
Comment by MFG
~~~YET
rats
Trust MFG
HellCare shall not pass the Senate
I count 35 nos (assuming Gordon of Tennessee doesn’t waver)
Melt those fricking phones. http://thehill.com/homenews/news/66091-current-house-healthcare-bill-whip-count
It is over – 218. It will not pass the Senate. Too many red state Sens are up for re-election and they all have to vote for cloture. A yes vote on cloture and a no vote on the final bill will still cost them their jobs. There is no hiding.
Don’t give up. Don’t give up until the final vote is completed. You never know.
Penn State loses. First the Phils go down and now state. They say (who are THEY anyway) that things come in 3’s. I guess Dallas beats the Eagles tomorrow night.
Do you guys ever get tired of being wrong?
phoenix,
In a million years, they never would have called for this vote if they didn’t already have 218. What is going on now is 3rd rate theatre. Nothing more, nothing less.
316
Do you ever get tired of being an as*hole?
Snark, nah we’re always right and we live to pizz off the likes of you.
MD, I know the norm
But still, get in there and fight. It ain’t over until the vote is taken and finalized.
I like that you look on the bright side. Quix has me going to the dark side. I need the counter balance!
Oh Knighthawk! Check this out. Shaddegg and 5 other GOP (and growing) number of GOP congressmen plan to vote present on the Stupak amendment.
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/GOP_Shadegg_to_buck_prolifers_party.html?showall
You know, I saw vote for the admendment. Too much of a can of worms that opens for the GOP if they don’t pass the amendment. Dem congressmen could legitimately argue that they put it to a vote but the GOP killed a pro-life admendment. Stick to principles.
Where is everybody? LOL
Oh Knighthawk! Check this out. Shaddegg and 5 other GOP (and growing) number of GOP congressmen plan to vote present on the Stupak amendment.
Comment by phoenixrisen
Good strategery,as it might get the bishops back in opposition, after having sold out earlier, although I’m sure they support soc.med.anyway. Might be hard to explain to the pro life constituents back home however, as they won’t understand the nuances of political tactics.
GOP is covered by the Public Option Phoenix.
In all reality GOP voters who hate this thing because of the Public Option and the dEMS trying to force more Govt dopwn our throats.
Abortion is number 2 topic for the Right at the moment.
Stupak cannot use this agaisnt us.
You know, I think this might be a tactic by Stupak into tricking the GOP into giving him and pro-life Democrats some capital to improve their re-election chances.
The Curch supported socialism in europe also.
As a Catholic I feel the Chruch is a one trick pony these days, back in the 50’s they spoke out against Communism too. Now it is only abortion.
I still say vote on principle and let the chips fall where they may. It could harm the GOP. I think Boehner and other GOP figures are right to do this.
Np Phoenix. Stupak has nothing. Every GOP voter I know in the Chicago Suburbs, many Catholic, are pissed about the Public Option.
This thing is going to have a bear of a time passing the Senate anyways. Stick to principle.
Shadegg is brilliant, and to think he almost retired last year. He makes up for McCain in AZ.
Phoenix, the more twist and turns here the better for the GOP.
The more muddles the process, better chance the Seante Junks it.
Phoenix can we take that chance? waht if some of these Moderate Seantors to hell with it I will just retire at the end of my term, lets make history
Felix, think about it. This is looks like a ruse to trick the GOP into giving the pro-life Democrats better re-election prospects. And guess what? Boehner got Rangel to admit the admendment wouldn’t hold when this goes to conference. I have to be wondering if Boehner and other GOP leaders are reconsidering supporting the Stupak amendment.
House minority leader Rep. John Boehner (R., Ohio) just challenged a Democratic House committee chair for the third time tonight about the Stupak amendment. He asked them to guarantee that if the Stupak amendment passes that it will then survive in the ensuing conference debate. This time Rep. George Miller (D., Calif.), chair of the Education and Labor committee, said he could not. Boehner shot back that Miller sounded just like Rep. Charlie Rangel, chair of Ways and Means, and Rep. Henry Waxman, chair of Energy and Commerce — both said they couldn’t give any guarantee about the amendment’s survival. Now the GOP strategy is clear: make the Dems never forget Stupak if PelosiCare passes tonight.
NRO
Over at Ace of Hearts, Drew thinks this is a sham and the GOP should vote no (I would vote present). Shouldn’t be too hard to explain to their constituencies that the Democrats were using this as a tactic and wouldn’t guarantee that the amendment would hold in conference.
Aaaaaahhhhhh, HD! Thanks for that info. Shoot the amendment down.
Phoenix buddy. On Tuesday night at 7pm I thought Christie was done. I am holding out hope and agreeing with Rdel that Cruella has crewed up.
Abortion has not been a winning Political strategy anyways for the GOP. McCain was Pro-Life.
In 2010 if Unemployment is near 10%, voters will not rememeber that the GOP killed the stupak amendment.
Siren at RS:
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/11/07/republicans-should-vote-no-on-stupak/
Sneaky, sneaky Dems. I’m as pro-life as anybody can get but this is just awful.
First the vote was for 7pm, then 9pm, now Midnight.
I guess Obama is too busy to fly out to FT.Hood
I am Pro-Life also, the GOP needs to realize Stupak is bluffing.
The economy is terrible, the people show they do not want this crap in polling by even CNN.
Grow a pair GOP and stop Socialism.
Felix, extending to Midnight?
Link?
Good Dem acting? http://twitter.com/RichLowry/status/5519813685
new thread
#341 I agree, vote NO or Present on Stupak….
Bohner has already established by asking the committee chairs that this is a ruse anyway….
Its no real pro-life protection….
If it was the pro-abortion nuts would be all over the TV, etc crying out violently….
A sucker ploy…..
KILL THE BILL – IT ALL ENDS NOW!!!!!
No, I haven’t been drinking. There was a new thread, but it’s gone now.
END IT NOW!!!
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH
Cantor confirms 35 Dem no votes. It’s going to be tight.
No Jim is not delusional. There was a Vote thread up, and now it is gone.
Boehner and Co…. time to earn your pay.
Vote no on Stupak.
#351 The R will get EXACTLY 40 Democrats unless Bohner grows a pair and gets the R to vote against or present on the Stupak ruse….
END IT NOW!!!!
ARRRRRHHHHHHG
http://www.freerepublic.com phoenix
Stop socialism now, by ending Stupak it will kill this crap once and for all. Abortions are not funded anywys presently.
My GOD what is going on with the Church???
Cardinal George threatening Boehner?
The Church supports the Public Option and wants Socialism and is threatening thise who want to protect freedom?
Maybe the Church should stop giving a pass to Catholics like Pelosi.
Catholic Church is a pathetic joke (I’m a Catholic so I can say that)
357…I am not a Catholic. If my church did something like this, I would leave and find another one. That’s one benefit of belonging to non-denominational churches.
Did the Stupak amendment get defeated? Sorry, been browsing the web and Felix, people at Free Republic said that the Stupak amendment went down.
The Catholic Church is a pathetic joke. (I’m not Catholic, but I can say that too)
Cardinal George allows Pro Abortion Cathloic Mayor Daley to every mass in Chicago. they appease ted Kennedy, Dood, Biden etc.. then they go after Pro-Lifers like Boehner
Just look back at the Catholic Church ever since the middle ages, its not like this is new to put politics over religion. Part of the reason I like smaller churches, less politics but like everything dealing with humans there is always some involved.
Well, the Church allowed these priests to **** **** these little boys for decades and covered it up, how can you have any moral authority left after that
If it weren’t for the statute of limitations half the bishops in America would be in prison
MFG. I dont know if you are a practicing Catholic, but the voting guides provided for the 2008 elections clearly indicated that Catholics had to vote for prolife candidates at the national level. Its not surprising that many catholic bishops are democrats in view excepting the abortion issue, but the last few elections they have been a bedrock against house, senate and presidential candidates that are not pro life. They nationally and publicly went after Pelosi big time in 2008.
Sure, the Church is strongly pro-life but virtually socialist on everything else
I respect the Church, but they do not care about Socialism, just Abortion. A sad night
The Church should start publicly excommunicating filthy vermin like Landrieu, Kerry and all these other phony Catholics who support abortion
Felix, link please.
Hugh, how many Cathlics voted for Obama. 48%?
Notre Dame let Baby Killer Obama speak there.
Cardinal of Boston gave scum Kennedy a Eulogy
Jones? for what?
I guess if conservatives want to right off catholics a significant voting block and for the first time ever voted in a majority for bush, then we will be a minority party forever. If not for the catholic church there would be no organized voice of political might speaking out against abortion. I am a devout catholic and would not make such offensive comments regarding other christian faiths. There are good and bad people in all clergies.
George/Boehner
The Chruch will not MFG. Because it believes all the liberal policies of Kerry except Abortion.
The Chruch supports amnesty, Taxes, socialism etc…
http://www.nationalreview.com the Corner
They were quick to support this socialist monstrosity once they thought the abortion issue was to be resolved to their satisfaction. They are also movers and shakers in the amnesty push for illegals as well.
I went to ND as did many of my friends and family. And to a person we have all stopped contributing and Father Jenkins has been falling over backwards to try to make it up to the alumni. Nevermind that at ND their are no coed dorms, no drugs on campus (my son confirms as a recent grad), you are are kicked out of school if caught having sex or a girl in your room after hours or doing drugs. They at least try to get a few things right. I guess you guys are right if there are some bad priests they should all be condemned though they make huge personal sacrifices to serve their church. Lets paint everyone with a big broad brush cloaked is self rightiousness that will lead us to majority status. As a very socially conservative person I am completely offended.
So much for the theory it was ok to elect Owens because he was a “conservative” Democrat….
Congressman-elect Bill Owens was sworn in at noon today.
Owens indicated in a press release that he was now in favor of the bill in direct contrast to his earlier position during his campaign.
According to Politico.com, Mr. Owens assured voters that he felt the public option had no place in the health care reform bill. Contrary to that position, Mr. Owens now indicates that he intends to vote in favor of the bill even though it now contains a public option.
So what happened to the Stupak amend?
I’m not broad brushing priests by any means, some are very fine people
The Church is not helping things, and that is a very fair criticism
Don’t Be Surprised When Stupak Isn’t in the Final Bill [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
From John Boehner’s website:
from NRO:
http://www.hedgehogreport.com/
2:35 PM: Chairman Waxman Won’t Guarantee That Speaker Pelosi’s Final Health Bill Will Include Stupak Anti-Abortion Language
In an exchange this afternoon on the House Floor, House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) asked Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) if he would guarantee abortion opponents that Rep. Bart Stupak’s (D-MI) amendment barring federal funding of abortion in Speaker Pelosi’s government takeover of health care will not be jettisoned from the bill by Democratic congressional leaders in House-Senate conference negotiations if the Pelosi bill passes the House with the Stupak amendment attached.
Chairman Waxman’s answer? “No guarantee can be made by me or any other Member at this time.”
Felix you are completely wrong. Did you read their voter guide? Are you a practicing Catholic or do you just accept that bull fed by the msm about the Catholics supporting liberal policies. Take it with a huge grain of salt, I know many priest and several bishops by and large they are conservative. However, many of the priests at ND did lean democratic, but much less so now given the dems full embrace of abortion.
Can’t find it. I see the bishops want health care, but no threats or carte blanc. Can you show me a link?
I take it that it passed.
If it did b/c not enough GOPers voted NO, then the GOP IS the Stupid Party.
D which bishops, how many, all??? Where is this coming from? by the way the bishops supporting any particular position is not binding on Catholics unless it is an absolute truth..ie abortion is murder. BTW most people have no idea what they consider to be an absolute truth for instance as a catholic you can vote for candidates that believe in capital punishment, but not ones that are pro abortion. It is right in the voter guide. Sounds republican leaning to me.
Vote no on Stupak as it will be stripped in conference.
Felix I am going to have to call BS if you can’t cite or refuse to retract.
Hell, I don’t know what passed and what didn’t. A lot of debate on this site but little if any information. Best bet for hard news is Red State.
Bayern, here is what is on the House web page. I didn’t watch, so I don’t know
8:12 P.M. -
POSTPONED PROCEEDINGS – At the conclusion of debate on the Stupak amendment, the Chair put the question on adoption of the amendment and by voice vote, announced that the noes had prevailed. Mr. Stupak demanded the yeas and nays and the Chair postponed further proceedings on the question of adoption of the amendment until later in the legislative day.
http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.html
Thanks Jones
STupak has not been voted on yet.
389…. That’s good, right?
Boehner Pence et all need to shut out and ignore the shortsighted ignorant priests, cardinals and bishops. They have work to do. They are trying to save the country. If the Catholics higher ups want a saqy then they should run for Congress.
They need to focus on the task of making this Pelosi Bill as UNPALATABLE AS POSSIBLE TO AS MANY BLUE FRAUDS AS POSSIBLE. PERIOD.
If that means voting in an amendment that legalizes prostitution and child/man sex then so be it.
Whatever it takes. This is a KNIFE FIGHT. DON’T BE AFRAID TO SLASH.
I can assure you, the other side is not.
Thanks Doc
390
Go to Hell you ND Bastard.
organized flaunting of the law
#389 WTF does that mean in the English language lol
I think it simply means the vote on the amendment has been delayed….someone who can translate this giberish clue me in lol
Hugh, it’s probably a little late to be telling you this, as your son has graduated college. But you can’t trust the things your kids tell you about their friends / social environment.
Getting drunk, high, and laid is pretty much the point of college for most kids. For some others, it’s only a secondary concern.
Ah, how I miss those days….
They need to focus on the task of making this Pelosi Bill as UNPALATABLE AS POSSIBLE TO AS MANY BLUE FRAUDS AS POSSIBLE.
PERIOD.
~~~~BayernFan —
They are indeed frauds, because when push comes to shove, they will support the bill. This is a theatre for the dummies back home, nothing more.
396….. I assume a delay is good, as the dems know that its defeat blows up the abortion deal they made with the pro-life Blue Frauds. But what do I know? I am an Indiana football fan.
wylie
it means that Pelosi was afraid to actually count the votes because it would have officially failed. By not counting the yeahs and neighs it allows them to go and strong arm some Dems who were voting no into voting yes. It also allows the amendment to live on because it hasnt been officially voted down
Basically they are tabling it now.
Right after Boehner introduced an amendment to allow purchase across statelines, to allow small business to join larger groups, and to put in abortion restrictions amongst other things. Now the Dems have to go on record voting no against all of these things.
Wow D. Dave Gibson an expert on Catholism and canon law. I guess I should just accept everything he says in his article and have that be the basis for attacking the Church and all it does. I am in awe of your research.
35 no votes: Cantor
http://twitter.com/GOPWhip/status/5520158252
#396:
What it means is, the chair called for adoption of the Stupak Amendment, and ruled that it had failed on voice vote.
Stupak then called for recorded vote.
Chair then postponed proceedings.
DQ you are right…. But the GOP needs to make this POS as politically unpalatable to as many BFs as possible. The goal is to defeat the thing. To do that, you gotta take all political cover away from them. Make them vote for it completely naked politically.
This bill should have been voted on by now. I’m starting to wonder. Why all the delay if the Dems have 218? Is it just because the GOP is gumming things up with amendment votes?
403…..
so far so good then. Delay is the name of the game. They will not bring this to a vote if it will lose.
So delay as long as possible. Make them go home next week.
#399 BayernFan
You have had a rough like so far. (Being an Indiana football fan.
)
Sam, adoption meaning the amendment is added to the bill or adoption that the amendment will be postponed for a later time?
Indiana has football? Who knew?
#396
It seems that if the amendment is delayed for voting, that delays the whole bill?
407…
It ain’t easy. I just gotta believe that the payoff will be HUUUUGE.
I hope I am alive when it happens.
Cory. I am sure they spend as much time as I did trying to figure out how to get laid. However, I went to ND in the late 70s. Saw drugs at every college I visited to see friends. I saw plenty at high school. I knew guys at ND that still actively did drugs. However, you never ever saw them on campus. That is because they had 0 tolerance and continue to have 0 tolerance. Nope no slap on the wrist for drugs or having a girl overnight. You went home to visit your parents. Not much fun. My son has no reason to lie to me. My daughter went to Elon. Great school and she told me there were drugs everywhere. My son had no reason to lie.
Yes… Indiana has football. It produces more academic all-Americans than any other team in the Big Ten (yes including NW).
They are 4-6. At PSU next weekend then they host PU.
My alma mater is Wabash College.
Next week is the Monon Bell Game.
DePauw to Hell!!! Get the Bell!!!
Ok that is it for football talk from me. lol
Allow me to caveat this by declaring it as total speculation… but here is my best guess:
Pelosi made a deal with the blue dogs to get their support for the HC bill in return for allowing a vote on the abortion amendment. Both sides likely assumed the amendment would pass.
Now, with GOP support for the amendment up in the air, Pelosi needs to make sure that the blue dogs will honour the deal, even if the vote on the amendment fails. My guess is she won’t allow the amendment vote to take place, until she knows whether or not she needs it to pass.
Status report please.
I say we stall all night, Pelosi is 70 years old, she’ll eventually poop out.
#414 In other words, the amendment was BS to being with….
A simple ruse to give Blue Dogs cover…
Hey Marv,
The only bad thing about beating ND is that Weis could likely be fired. He’s the best thing to happen to Navy since Staubach.
How nice to get bowl eligible and keep ND out of a BCS game at the same time.
All right Hugh, that was a rather convincingly rational response.
I certainly won’t believe that there aren’t drugs on campus, but I can see your point that the school is taking the steps that it can do discourage them. Fair enough.
One Republican wavoring:
Cao
Cao is gone in 10.
He should vote no.
Is Boehner doing the House version of a filibuster like he did with cap and tax?
#418 Brutus,
Notre Dame will have trouble with Navy for next three years, Ricky Dobbs is only a freshman and next year they play in Balitmore.
Brutus. Weis is toast. I wanted to win, but am glad if we had to lose again to lose Weis it was to Navy.
Agreed he’s gone
Perhaps Rahm offered him a position in the administration. It’s the Chicago way. When breaking the leg doesn’t work – bribe them.
If Cao votes yes, we’ll cross him off the list as a rising Republican star.
Marv. Nd will not turn over the ball three times again in one game all three times within the 5 yard line in the red zone. Clausen had 452 yards. it was a fluke, but navy played hard at to their ability. I am betting we get Cincys coach.
#425
There are always more Czars needed. Why not just reinstate the Czar of all Russians. Aren’t there several thousand in Illinoise.
When will they vote on Stupak?
Vote to end around 2am.
Malkin tweet
Really?
I heard Cao was a no
Where did you hear that…???
#427 Hugh
Navy has tendency to make the other team make mistakes and then take advantage of them when they do. Navy also keeps the ball for long periods at a time.
HD, WOW! I am betting this is because the GOP smoked out the Stupak amendment’s purpose.
test
That vote is going to be out of prime time for the west coast now.
Definitely fits into that “thief in the night” category now.
Is’nt Cao representing “Cold Cash” Jefferson district?
Marv. True, still they were very fortunate. Fortunate defined as hard work and a incompetent coach on the other side. Having said that and wanting weis gone, we are now loaded with talent do to his good recruiting skills and with a good coach could be back fast.
MFG
I read it on NRO thirty minutes ago. He told the Republican leadership he’s undecided.
Comment by Redgill — November 7, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
Yep
#436
If true doesn’t that put him in LA? Then actually nothing is a surprise, especially the bribe comment.
Wow
Yes, he took over Jefferson’s seat, but he always said he wouldn’t support anything that subsidized abortion
#430 HD, just checked her twitter. It says 11 p.m.
Stupak amendment getting voted on right now.
New thread
Heh, GOP holds their cards until the buzzer?
let’s get rid of that 1 republican!
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