The Fall Of The Berlin Wall
On this day we celebrate the fall of the Berlin Wall and, eve though he was out of office by this point, Ronald Reagan’s ultimate victory in the Cold War.
Personally, i was a mere 14 years old when the Berlin Wall fell and, to be truthful, my interest in news and politics was pretty low. But I still have faint memories of watching this happen live on TV and having my parents, who lived basically their entire life under what was known as the Cold War, explain to me why this was such a big deal.
It also begs for a video of the greatest speeches of all time.
Thank you Ronald Reagan….
God Bless Ronald Reagan!
I encourage you all to read some Natan Sharansky. Reagan saw that the Soviet Union was destructable, and destroyed it, when most people thought we were stuck with it.
Meanwhile, while our current President and the MSM is concerned about backlash against Muslims,and refuses to call it a terrorist attack, the UK’s Telegraph has this to say…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6526030/Fort-Hood-gunman-had-told-US-military-colleagues-that-infidels-should-have-their-throats-cut.html
hmnnn… terrorist attack ? looks like it to me…
excerpt from the above article: Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the gunman who killed 13 at America’s Fort Hood military base, once gave a lecture to other doctors in which he said non-believers should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats.
What does it say that we have to rely on the British press to report information on this guy?
I think the answer is obvious.
Its media blackout on that case. I think Faux news is even scared to touch it.
Reagan was the best.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873
Read this, more is breaking each and every day on this one.
U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.
It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.
One senior lawmaker said the CIA had, so far, refused to brief the intelligence committees on what, if any, knowledge they had about Hasan’s efforts.
From my post #8. Remember, I mentioned “walls” here on Friday… It appear that the intelligence agencies failed to communicate w ith eahc other.
Now, one of the critical queations I have, is why did the FBI back off this jihadi???
I could only follow the fall of the Warsaw Pact from radio messages.
I was on a missile submarine on patrol. Actually seemed sort of fitting knowing that our actions were all part of the plan.
“Mr Gorbachev! Tear down this wall!”. I was 13 when I first heard those words, thinking “yeah right, the Berlin for 40 years and its not going anywhere”. And then two years later it happens. That is why Ronald Reagan is STILL the best president of my lifetime.
Will Obama be making some remarks at the Wall ceremony today? Oh yeah, he chose not to accept the German invitation to be there.
Rev Wright is probably pleased.
Rep Cao (R?-LA) gave his reasons for voting for the bill
- He wanted an abortion limit in the bill. He’s a former jesuit seminarian.
- He wanted more money for Katrina repairs. O’men said he would try but made no promises.
What’s Cao going to do when the abortion limit is removed from the final bill and he gets no Katrina money? Oops, I thought I could trust the demorats.
the “politcally correct” spin from the Obama administration and the MSM media:
http://bejohngalt.com/2009/11/media-administration-greatest-tragedy-of-ft-hood-is-possible-backlash/
notice the various headlines
Cao is gone anyway.
Good riddance.
#14
Pathetic.
The only thing “bi-partisan” about this horrible bill is the bipartisan OPPOSITION to it. Close to 40 democrats voted AGAINST it. If they wanted to reform health insurance laws to require private companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions, they could have done that WITHOUT THE PUBLIC OPTION. They could have done a lot of things WITHOUT THE PUBLIC OPTION. The bottom line is that Obama and the far left liberals in the dem party want to socialize this country, and if this government take over goes through, 48% of the economy will be under government control.
Obama is the WORST thing to EVER happen to this country. He is spouting how this is the “change” that people voted for. BWAHAHA. The “change” he talked about during the campaign was about reaching across the aisle – to have bipartisan discussions, bipartisan legislation, a friendlier interaction between the two parties. He has only made the tone in Washington WORSE than it ever was. He has done NOTHING even close to bipartisan.
Obams is a disaster of epic proportions!!! He isn’t the POTUS, he’s the POS!!!
Ronald Regan…there will never be another like him. How much differenct would our country and world be today if he were still President.
Does anyone here think our country can survive 3 more years of this maniacal administration and biased media?
We are someday going to learn to not be so insanely PC. The day after we are all dead.
Sharon,
I am not so sure. I really am concerned.
Oh, and he is a terrorist. 100000%. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a stone cold moron.
Knova wouldn’t like that.
With Hussein in charge, the CIA is afraid to provide any intel that may put muslims in anything less than a positive light.
Every CIA official shouls resign en masse. They simply can’t do their jobs anymore. Hussein will not allow them to use methods necessary to get intel but at the same time will blame them when stuff like this happens.
Why bother?
“Oh, and he is a terrorist. 100000%. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a stone cold moron.”
Knova must be turning in his garden….
This goes beyond Knova. If he can’t see the obvious, then that is his problem. Sadly, Hussein shares his views.
Thank God we can sleep well at night knowing that our Secretary of Homeland Security is, oh never mind.
The fact that he is a terrorist is no longer a matter of opinion. It is a simple fact.
I am glad Obama is not going to the Berlin Wall celebration…he really has no business being there….a fish out of the water
Careful or Knova will call all of us bigots and racists. We dont want to “jump to conclusions” cuz we cant have a beer summit on this one, muslims dont drink. Got to be extremely careful, especially when your middle name is…
Where is the outrage from the muslim community?
#29
Where it always is. Nowhere.
“Careful or Knova will call all of us bigots and racists”
Already did, dozens of times before he retired from bigot calling.
I like Knova but he is dead wrong on this issue. Not only that, but it is attitudes like his that put us all in danger.
#
Where is the outrage from the muslim community?
Comment by MDefl — November 9, 2009 @ 9:10 am
Where is the outrage from the president?
BTW,
What happens to gay people in the “peaceful” muslim countries?
Obama is an enemy of freedom.
Has he gone to Ft Hood yet?
The world continues to punk Ogabe.
Iran charges three detained Americans with espionage
AP
I will answer my own question – they try to avoid getting their heads chopped off. Doesn’t leave much time to debate gay marriage.
Thank God for Lieberman.
I think Knova will come back as Black Hole, after flaming out in a super Knova meltdown.
I just hope that eventually he sees the obvious.
We have a big problem with our legislative process. When something is as revolutionary and comes at such enormous expense as the health care bill it should not be allowed to pass by simple majority votes. We do not allow an override of a presidential veto with less than a 2/3 majority. Nor can we amend the constitution without agreement by 3/4 of all states. We should have some way to impose greater bipartisan acceptance on bills of such significance as this healthcare bill. A fantasy, I know, but nevertheless it should be the case.
Obama is an enemy of the Constitution, and an enemy of the state, in my opinion. I thank the 60 million stone-cold morons who fell for his silver-tongued lies for voting him into office and destroying our country. At least Bush left the country as a democracy with a capitalist/freemarket economy. Not for much longer though………tick,tock,tick,tock.
Yeah, I was about 2 months old when this happened.
WHEN WILL OBAMA VISIT FORT HOOD ???
Can we cease the Knova bashing ? Let’s bash the politically correct media and the appeasement, afraid to call it terrorism, more concerned about backlash against Muslin than our own troops and national security Obama Administration !
At least Knova is an ally when it comes to fiscal conservatism. And he never said the man WAS NOT a terrorist. He simply wanted to see more facts before making up his mind and he also wanted to make a valid point about possible backlash.
I opposed his points then and I called him on it but guys, none of us is perfect. Can we not cut him a little slack ?
NO Tim V we cant. When someone calls me a bigot and a racist and all kinds of other scurillous things, simply because I disagree with them, I tend to take it quite personal. So no, we can not.
OK Gary.
I love Glenn Beck but I did find this funny. Humor is something that both the left and the right can enjoy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/06/jon-stewart-does-glenn-be_n_348129.html
have patience getting through the ad…
#48. I thought that was funny as well.
Can we not cut him a little slack ?
No Tim V, but thanks for the offer. You want to be called a racist and bigot and loser it’s fine with me.
For consideration:
“Going postal” is a piquant American phrase that describes the phenomenon of violent rage in which a worker–archetypically a postal worker–”snaps” and guns down his colleagues.
As the enormity of the actions of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan sinks in, we must ask whether we are confronting a new phenomenon of violent rage, one we might dub–disconcertingly–”Going Muslim.” This phrase would describe the turn of events where a seemingly integrated Muslim-American–a friendly donut vendor in New York, say, or an officer in the U.S. Army at Fort Hood–discards his apparent integration into American society and elects to vindicate his religion in an act of messianic violence against his fellow Americans. This would appear to be what happened in the case of Maj. Hasan.
How about them Cowboys? Dave, should have gone with the hot hand. Oh well.
Here is an unrepentant ex-Commie eltiest who is whining about the loss of the most repressive nation to ever exist on the planet:
http://rightwingnews.com/#post3492
Notice its the protected elites who get the best of everything by vittue of their political connections love socialism!
I wonder how many of our liberal trolls that are simply pee-on know what they are sign up for!
The speech Obama would have made if he could have been bothered to hnor the anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall:
—–
Greatings my fellow Americans,
While many call this an anniversary of the triumph of freedom, I come in sadness to mourn a day when the forces of imperialism, bigotry, and hate forced a peaceloving nation to abandon it’s means of military and economic self defense against it’s aggressive and hateful western neighbor. I am hear to mourn the passing of the GDR and the highest ideals of humanity and equality that this daring nation, a nation forged with the help of an equally daring and honorable Soviet Union represented.
Um…..um…please join me in a minute of mourning.
———-
-Polaris
we must never lose sight of the dangerous statist/socialist ideologues we are dealing with here…..
Mark Steyn has an excellent article in NRO today everyone should read and take note of:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjlhYjQzZTYwNjc5YWEyMDdlNm...
Likely Obama will make a huge push starting Monday to get a vote in the Senate. All that he needs to do is to get Reid to drop the Government Option and Lieberman’s opposition melts…..
Losing the Government Opption is no victory at all as its the most minor part of the takeover!
All the mandates to purchase the government quasi-private insurance, subsides to create dependency, taxes, and government expansion…..anf of course the use of force if you dont comply!
This is a takeover in every regard even without a Government Option entitlement!
#54 CORRECT!!!!
Obama and his kind are really sad that it ever came down!
They are hoping to get the same thing here soon! See how they now openly praise Castro and Chavez among the Demcrat party and WH Czars!
Those day of heavy handed communisum was “the good ole days” for them!
For a chuckle go Here: posts 413 419 432 437 441 445 474 573
knova/wes
Wylie, check out these.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/08/is-this-the-high-water-mark-for-obamacare/
http://www.redstate.com/realquiet/2009/11/08/the-one-year-war/
Looks like the House Bill has been relegated to non-starter. If (Big IF) anything comes out of the Senate, it’s going to be watered down and the liberal caucus in the House would shoot it down. When Coburn follows through with his normal gumming up the works, I don’t see how anything would get passed in 2010. This House Hill passage go for broke strategy by Pelosi serves a very strange purpose. It will leave Blue Dog Democrats hanging out to dry and force a further leftward lurch in the Democratic House with the colassal losses coming in 2010. The Democratic Party as we know has been hijacked by the kook left and what happened this past weekend only served to amplify it. It was all about Pelosi and that’s it. The love/gagfest that we saw with Dems fawning over Pelosi might be very short lived indeed.
58…phoneixrisen…this is the most encouraging thing I have read since the Saturday night stealth vote. Hope you are right.
58…. I thought you couldn’t filibuster a vote on a bill produced by conference committee. The first article says you can. Am I wrong?
60 yes you are wrong.
Gary, Your Cowboys have certainly turned a corner.
If the hold this bill til 2010 and take the house, can we kill it in Conference?
Vote on where to poll:
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2009/11/vote-on-where-we-poll.html
61….. Good I am glad to be wrong…
BTW, from Boehner’s website… regarding why they supported Stupak… note the word “WHEN”…
“When this bill is conferenced with the Senate, the pro-life majority in the House of Representatives must ensure that this important amendment is in the final legislation. If it does not, this same strong majority must defeat the bill.”
Hopefully, nothing will come out of the Senate, but I guess the assumption is that something will come out of there.
DELAY STALL DELAY STALL DELAY STALL….. that has to be the mantra. Whatever it takes to DELAY STALL this thing. Hire the slooooowwwwwwweeeeeeesssssssttttttttt reader to read the bill.
Hey where can i find a text of the bill that passed the house?
The time to filibuster is when the Senate is deliberating its bill. There will be a cloture vote at which p;oint it can be filibustered. The House bill has no chance in the Senate as it has a public option which does not have 60 votes. The plan has to be to stop the Senate from getting a bill of any kind. Once they pass a bill, then the House and Senate meet in conference and they can re-insert public option at that point. Once the bill comes out of conference, it needs just 51 votes. If a bill indeed makes it through conference, I believe the overwhelming likelihood is that it will get the 51 votes ans the dems will not let it go down in defeat at the last step — that would ensure that their base will not show up in 2010. The time to stop it is from stopping the Senate getting a bill out of the Senate. Then it dares Reid to use the nuclear option for which I believe the Senate does not have the appetite.
67…. OK then I was right? That a bill that comes out of conference can NOT be filibustered? Then the first article in 58 above is wrong?
Pitch,
That is exactly what will happen but you better ask Hunter because he is an expert in all things.
In short, we’re screwed.
Pitch, if any bill makes it through the Senate, the merger talks in conference typically take months and then the House and Senate have to vote on the final bill which Reid will need a supermajority again. The Hot Air article eloquently points all of this out. The one who can kill any hope of healthcare in 2010 is Coburn gumming up the works and he is going to do this. If Reid goes the nuclear option, Coburn, Gregg and company will shut the Senate down. Just the parliamentary maneuver of having the entire bill read will take a long time. Reid I believe one time tried to have speed readers to counter this tactic but withdrew them when the ridiculousness of the move became apparent. Joe Lieberman has already nuked any possibility of the public option being in a Senate bill. 2010 is going to be an interesting year in watching this play out. The Obama White House is whistling in the wind if they try to get a bill through by Christmas. That is pure fantasy.
#58 I disagree with the second (red state) article. It sounds like an excuse.
The entire goal at this point has to be:
KILL BILL
If that means voting against an amendement that makes passage more likely (even if you agree with it), then that’s what you do.
It’s not that hard.
-Polaris
My understanding is that a conference bill CAN be filibustered.
#63 — HD I believe so. Or else the GOP would swiss cheese the bill so badly that the lib and Blue Dog Dems in the House and Senate would junk it.
Just for the record, Obama doesn’t care if a bill gets 220 or 380 votes in the House or 51 votes or 70 in the Senate. I laugh at all his nonsense claiming that Pelosi was not sucessfull because she only 220 votes. Are you kidding me? She is estatic!
The pub option will be dropped in the Sen and added back at conference. The most vulnerable in the sen will be allowed to vote no.
Oh, and abortion will be added back in. The Dems will fold like.a house of cards.
#72 That is generally true, but some conference bills (budgetary ones IIRC) can not be.
That is where the reconcilliation ‘nuclear option’ comes in. The Dems will try to get the bill to be typed as one that can not be fillibustered by simple majority vote.
-Polaris
Polaris, Michelle Bachmann and other GOP leaders considered this strategy but they said that the Dems would have passed the bill anyway with the amendment or not. I have to take their word for it.
This is going 100% according to Hussein’s script. The phone lines between DC, Havana and Carracas are burning up!
Back to Berlin:
Is there anyone else out there who gets annoyed when the liberal media and historians go ape over JFK’s “Ich bin ein Berliner” speech, and then don’t even mention Reagan’s much more meaningful speech? For one thing, Kennedy’s German was horrible! His “Ich” was pronounced “Ish”. Reagan’s speech, on the other hand, was tough and it changed history. That’s something that Obama, for all of his wonderful speeches, has never done.
By the way, this is coming from one who despised Ronald Reagan until recently. I didn’t come to appreciate him until after he was dead.
#74 MD, if the public option is added back and the Stupak amendment is stripped out, the GOP/Lieberman and a few moderate Dems would filabuster the final bill. A bill that comes out of conference can be filabustered by the Senate. This is why Reid needs to get 60 votes twice and why his task and the time window he has looks just impossible.
Trying to make this a buget bill would be a HUGE stretch – a bridge too far IMO. Not saying Reid won’t try it, but if he does even Snowe is going to be off the reservation. I don’t doubt Democrats aren’t exploring every angle. As I said last night their side plans to win.
However, there’s NO WAY they can turn this into a budget bill although they’d dearly love to.
AIN,
The dept of state desperately tried to have the following line removed from the speech:
“Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!”
Reagan personally overrode state.
Phoenix,
I did not know that a bill could be filibustered out of conference. I am correct that no amendments can be offered?
The Parliamentarian would have to rule what portions of the bill are budgetary and not subject to filibuster. The Democrats would likely get a tax bill and no programming. It can not be made to work here. Good news is that Robert Byrd would just go bananas if the progs tried this too. I know he is sick and not present, but few things are as important to him is the rules and regs of the Senate. It might draw him in on a cot.
GM,
I don’t think Byrd is going to be with us for much longer.
84…. If so, then one less D vote for cloture for a time, correct?
Peter Robinson ( Reagan speech writer ) was on Bill Bennetts show this am. It was not just the State Department that wanted to change the speech, it was Colin Powell. And a young 30 something year old speech writer stood up to him and told him why it needed to be in. No one wanted to tell Reagan directly that the words has to go, as Reagan thought it was the best part of the speech.
Squishes in the State dept are never right. Let that be a lesson learned.
I stand corrected. The conference can be filibustered; therefore, unless Reid goes nuclear there is no way in hell he gets this monstrosity through by December. Once it lapses into next year, it is dead in an election year. At the end of the day, they may thrown their dog(kossacks) a bone this weekend. However, they havae given conservatives two ugly bills to run against: cap and trade and Pelosicare as the ultimate job-busters.
Obama at the wall.
Uh,uh,uh..we don’t interfere in the matters of uh,uh…Damn that teleprompter! Other countooories. What the f is wrong with my machine. All 57 states agree with me!
Ok – if the conference bill can be filibustered, then I have to adjust my thoughts.
Are we 100% sure on this? There is a lot of conflicting information.
WHEN WILL OBAMA CALL IT A TERRORIST ACT ???
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE FROM THE GOOD MUSLIMS?
#90 — I’m trusting this coming from Hot Air. These guys are a lot more versed in legislative protocol than I am. http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/08/is-this-the-high-water-mark-for-obamacare/
Tim V,
In Knova’s quest to be reasonable and tolerant he was neither on this issue, ironically.
Phoenix,
Thanks. I am always wary having been burned several times in the past.
It is rather comical to see the Kossacks rabid anger toward Lieberman right now. I just don’t see a way this gets out of the Senate but we’ll just have to keep the pressure on until January 2011.
Why are the MSM and the Obumbler Adminstration pushing the talking points that the Ft. Hood shooter was mentally deranged? Because they don’t want to be the first adminstration since 911 to be in charge when a terrorist attack was committed on US soil.
MD…
Seems as if you’re still burning a little bit from our back and forth yesterday…
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/obtained-in-letter-to-pelosi-41-house-dems-pledge-to-vote-against-bill-with-abortion-amendment/
Good news. Now we need Stupack to get 40 signatures.
Guys,
I think it’s quite possible for this bill to be turned into a budget bill. Certainly it would make a mockery of the whole system, but if the Dems can get 51 votes to declare this POS a “budget bill”, they will. Look for it.
-Polaris
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/66969-senior-dem-confident-stupak-amendment-will-be-stripped
#89 A conference bill can be fillibustered MDefl UNLESS it’s a budget bill. That’s the point of the whole ‘reconciliation nuclear option’…i.e. to change the bill into a type that can not be fillibustered out of conference.
-Polaris
HD,
Of course it will.
Hunter,
Nah, I just wanted to take one last shot. Feel free to return fire. I won’t respond. Then we can end it and move on, uh I mean forward.
Polaris,
Can’t we tie up a budget bill forever? Frankly, I don’t see Reid having 51 votes for that. That would expose even relatively safe seats like WI to the red tide.
No need…
Let’s move forward..
Reid only needs 50 votes.
Vote for Missouri!!
CFG endorses Rubio.
Then again, we shouldn’t underestimate Hussein. As we speak, he is probably on the phone with his mentor, Hugo Chavez working on ways to circumvent the wishes of our founding fathers and a majority of living Americans.
#98 — AC1, looks like Reid and Pelosi’s job just got a whole lot harder. I thought Reid’s was practically impossible to begin with but now this
#101 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA — And you know what. We all know the Dems are that crazy to try to spin that to the people. Now that would be a showdown that I would get some popcorn, pop up my feet on a chair and watch Reid cry at Coburn, Gregg, Demint, etc., of that it’s outrageous that the GOP holds things up. I can see it right now. “You’re killing Americans by delaying this legislation blah blah blah.”
I’m starting to think Obamacare is dead. I read that if it passes in senate it then goes to conference and then both houses must pass it again. I don’t see that happening.
Which may be a reason for today’s rally.
“CFG endorses Rubio.”
Given CFG’s record, this mean FL senate seat goes Dem.
#101 I say you are correct…..
Based on actions by Obama and the wacko left this year, does ANYONE think that they will not try to ram this HC scam thru any way they can?
I mean the whole year has been about expanding government and grabbing as much political power as they possibly can…
Why would they let some silly rule about budget recon stand in their way….
Events this week that are critical to watch are if Reid will drop the public option in order to get something called HC reform out of the Senate…..again, the partiticulars wont matter as long as the Filibuster is overcome and it gets to confernce committee so the real dirty tricks start…..a “vapor bill” would do just as nicely for recon too (but this is the ultimate dirty trick)……
I think lending too much credence on the articles in post #58 or other so-called experts who say this is going “nowehere” are very very dangerous at this point as we who OPPOSE this need to be taking it up a notch in protest…..relaxing is EXACTLY what Obama wants….
By CW this whole ScaryCare bill should be dead considering that it is 15-20% Negative…..add to that the NJ and VA election – should have killed it right? Nope? How about 10.2% unemployment? Nope
Nope, it just keeps getting pushed…..why? Its about power and control….ignore or call me a “ranter” if you want but so far the evidence to date has proven Polaris and I correct….
catching up… sure this was mentioned already but:
“U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News. ”
—
No jumping to conclusions now.
ah I see this was well covered already.
Nope, it just keeps getting pushed…..why? Its about power and control….ignore or call me a “ranter” if you want but so far the evidence to date has proven Polaris and I correct….
Comment by wylie e. coyote
Wylie, I agree. Until it is officially DEAD then we need to keep up the pressure.
#54 – What no shout out in the speech?
They are zealots and will not give up.
#118 and we are zealots who won’t ever stop fighting them either
This is to my brother Hugo – keep up the good fight bro.
This is to may main man, Fidel. Stay well Comrade.
This is to Billy Ayers – it’s cool man. We got the lincoln room wating for you.
I’m on payroll afterall, so this is obligatory:
Commemorating a Victory for Freedom
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=170146378434
Twenty years ago, the ultimate symbol of the division between freedom and tyranny was torn down. The Berlin Wall was constructed for one purpose: to prevent the escape of East Germans to the freedom of the West. The Wall’s cold, gray façade was a stark reminder of the economic and political way of life across the Soviet Union’s sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.
Ronald Reagan never stopped regarding the Berlin Wall as an affront to human freedom. When so many other American leaders and opinion makers had come to accept its presence as inevitable and permanent, Reagan still hammered away at the Wall’s very premise in human tyranny, until finally the Wall itself was hammered down. Its downfall wasn’t the work of Reagan alone. Our president’s actions were joined with the brave acts of many individuals who stood firm and united in facing the Soviet Union. The Berlin Wall came down because millions of people behind the Iron Curtain refused to accept the fate of enslavement and their supporters in the West refused to accept that the “captive nations” would remain captive forever.
Though that long, tragic episode in human history had come to a close finally with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, it wasn’t the “end of history” or the end of conflict as some had hoped. New conflicts confront us today throughout the world which call for courage and resolve and dedication to freedom. The new democracies and market economies that have emerged in Central and Eastern Europe still require our friendship and alliances as they continue to seek security, prosperity, and self-determination. But as we reflect on present and future challenges, let’s take time to celebrate the anniversary of this awesome victory for freedom. The downfall of that cold, gray concrete Wall should be a lesson to us in hope. Nothing is inevitable. Tyranny is no match for the hope and resolve of those who work and fight for freedom.
- Sarah Palin
#119 Cool. I do think its beatable, but the outcry needs to be much loader then ever now….
While its good to have some moral boasting articles on our side about how the HC scam is beatable….I think Morrissey etc are way to optimistic at this point and are based on CV political calculations….these are not typical Pols pushing this…..to the extent conservatives and the GOP ignore this new reality adds much greater peril to an already very threatening sitution…..
#121 But it was “Gorby” that brought the wall down!
Why I have spent the weekend hearing that on the History channel and on PBS!
They would never “spin” the truth about the ole Soviet commie empire….
Why they had “free” HC and “full” employment….it was all sunshine and lollipops…..and it would have worked swell if it wasnt for us evil warmonger facists capitialist; Reagan being the worst of course!
#122 I agree. I have known for a very long time (and IMHO and IIRC was one of the first to fully recognize) that Obama does NOT care about conventional political calculations.
He is an idealogue. If he has to sacrifice every Dem in congress to pass this massive reworkiung of American Govt and Society, he will do so and do so gladly. So will Pelosi who is a proven idealogue and can afford to be since only parts of Cuba are more left than her home district.
Don’t kid yourselves. Steyn has it exactly right. This is a powergrab and the Dems are playing for all the marbles. They get this passed and there will never be a conservative electoral majority ever again. Obama knows this perfectly well and will do ANYTHING to make this monstrosity pass. ANYTHING.
-Polaris
Noticed the stock market is up another 150 points. You know, I’ve about concluded the market is going to go up in spite of just about anything.
Fool’s goal but maybe not.
#124 I look for a move this week were Reid decides to drop the Government option in order to “move the process along” (they love this excuse) as a clue to their real intent….
If Liberman etc cave ala Snowe on the filibuster in responses to the dropping then I think we are in real trouble….
Of course Reid could go to go pure nuclear (a vapor bill) but I dont see him doing that until the first gambit is tried…..
If he sticks to his guns (keeps the Government option/opt out) on his Senate bill for the next week or so, that is good news that maybe the opposition is making in roads…
#125 Volume isn’t high. Market is up because corporate profits are up and the market has “priced in” permanent 10% unemployment.
Just because profits are up doesn’t mean that companies are hiring, however, and credit is far too tight.
-Polaris
#125 What is Obamacare on Intrade w/Public Option or w/o Public Option…..
I may just leap in to that if its like 5 or 6 like someone mentioned last nite…..
If we are going to get socialism foisted on us, I need to beef up my personal bank account significantly to prep for it!
random thoughts – Had the president made a decision on Afghanistan would it have changed the outcome or timing of the event? If he had announced a pull back would it have happened at all? If he had announced more troops would Hasan have acted faster?
#128 lol
My son showed me the following last night and I just can’t stop laughing at it:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55416
“KILLEEN, Texas — The Army psychiatrist authorities say killed 13 people and wounded 29 others at the Fort Hood Army Base Thursday was a recent and frequent customer at a local strip club, employees of the club told FoxNews.com exclusively.”
—
Maybe the FBI should start staking out strip clubs looking for jihadis, seems to be a pattern with these llama.
Community organizers
I just thank God for Gorby’s bravery.
127- other bad news if freddie and fannie keep needing BILLIONS more to stay solvent.
plus gold has risen 10% in a about a month forecasting inflation and lower dollar
#136 Of course, this goes with the other. The market knows perfectly well that whenever Obama sees trouble he throws money at it and doesn’t have a clue that money isn’t free.
-Polaris
Dow is UP, but in real dollard, DOW is barely at 1999 levels. The Dollar is getting KILLED today as it contionues to get dumped. Gold is at a record high. When is the public going to realize that the world has NO FAITH in the US Currency anymore. It is worse than the peso and this pathetic health care bill that will likely cost trillions more than anticipated/estimated is only going to seal the deathe dollar. But as long as the Dow goes up, the sheep are placated into utter complacency. PAH-thetic.
Obama addresses Berlin by video.
Public option is at 10 cents per contract;
#124–Polaris–good point. Only thing IMHO that could stop this is an EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATOR that can speak directly to the people and explain to them the evil of what is happening. That’s probably a bit too optimistic because I don’t see anyone on the bench/ondeck circle who has the credibility/ability to explain this issue to the pathetic mostly non-vested public. Which basically means, buy gold and silver.
Dylan
Dylan, don’t worry, you should not jump to any conclusions about about the world slowly divesting themselves out of the dollar.
#142–On don’t you worry. I wouldn’t dare jump to any conclusions. I have had this dollar bear trend beaten over my head since it began in 2002 and I see NOTHING that will reverse it in the forseable future.
140 – How many euro’s is that?
#141 Sure as long as it’s legal to buy gold and silver. I expect that when the economy starts to go south, Obama will outlaw the private ownership of Gold and Silve and thanks to the idiot precedent under FDR he can do it.
-Polaris
The entire USA GDP at this point is about 9000 Euros. PAH-thetic.
#146 Bah. You exaggerate. I am sure it’s worth at least 9001 Euros (our GDP I mean).
-Polaris
#145–You can buy and hold oversees or you can not tell anyone you own it (much better safety plan). FDR exempted gold coins that also had numismatic value, but yeah, I don’t trust Obama. Concurrent with outlawing private metal ownership he will likely nationalize 401K/IRA’s and force everyone to buy T-bills since there will be no one wanting to buy them on the open market. At that point, the conversions to Marxism will be cmplete.
#147–Yeah. But at least the Dow is up.
I guess I remember the relatively sunny optimist and I always believe that America’s best days ahead. I might add that President Reagan showed that faith in the USA will not be wasted. I can still remember when people proclaimed that communism/socialism was inevitable and that the USA will be another member of the Soviet Union.
I don’t downplay that the USA is not in great shape economically. I lay that at Obama’s doorstep. There will be a price to be paid for this huge increase in America’s debt.
I personally that price is not a stock market collapse but rather we will be living in a 10% world where 1/10 of every American is semi-permanmently unemployed. That’s the damper on inflation.
I personally see America climbing off the spending ladder. Our Savings rate is around 3.5% on for the last year or so. I suspect it will climb a bit to 5% and America will go on a prolonged period of paying debt down, consuming less and saving more.
Our very slow economic growth will keep interest rates low.
By the time the GOP gets back in we see economic growth returning even in the face of rising interest rates.
America will survive Obama.
Star Tribune to cut about 100 jobs
About 30 of the job cuts will come from the newsroom, company officials said.
By JENNIFER BJORHUS, Star Tribune
Last update: November 9, 2009 – 12:24 PM
How can the Startribune have any jobs left. They have been through chapter 11 and three rounds of job cuts.
Our local paper is getting mighty small here in memphis
150…the question is, WHAT America will survive Obama? I don’t doubt there will be 50 states that make up the USA, although Texas could leave the union. But the country will have irrepairable harm done to it.
#153 Texas does not have the right to leave the union. That right was not granted to Texas by treaty (although the right to break up into five states was) and SCOTUS after the Civil War ruled that secession was unconstitutional without a constitutional convention (see Article 5).
-Polaris
154…true, but since when has anyone cared about what is constitutional?
I know Obama doesn’t care about the constitution and feels it’s an archaic, flawed, and outdated document that focuses wrongly on negative rights (yes he actually said this on NPR), but I care and I believe millions of other Americans care.
-Polaris
#150. It doesn’t matter what the savings rate is when the government is spending like drunken sailors. That way offsets any benefit from the increased savings rate. I fear we are past the point of no return on our deficit spending fiat
#157 True but the domestic savings rate will (hopefully) buy us a little time before inflation goes totally out of control. However, it won’t buy much time.
-Polaris
151 – Will they be outsourcing to Anita Dunn as well?
#156 Polaris – so what do you make of this claim by poster on here and in the conservative media that talking about the “Consitiution” or “Indiviual Rights/Freedom/Liberty” are “political losers” in the so-called HC debate?
It has been said repeatedly by one certain poster that “talking about liberty turns independent voters off – they only want to hear about costs”
I say that this HC debate is essnetially a philosophoically one and that the GOP/opponents MUST talk about HC in these terms….
To talk about simply in terms of taxes, money, ie wonkish terms is essentially debating on the lefts terms….
I also say, this is the reason we are revisiting this whole “Universal Govt HC” debate once again – conservatives have never debunked the basic socialist premise that Government run HC is a fundamental right…..we only defeated HillaryCare tactically (ie costs, taxes, etc) but not the core idea of “free” HC from the government as a right….
If the hold this bill til 2010 and take the house, can we kill it in Conference?
Comment by Howard Dean
After we elect a new congress, ALL old legislation dies. It would never get to conference, as they would have to start all over again.
Read this:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/09/ap-public-option-is-dead/
#160 The only reason I can think of is that talking about the constitutionality of healthcare sounds arrogant and out of touch when most people are worrying about where their next pay check is coming from (or IF they can get a pay check). In today’s economy, it’s ECONOMIC issues and personal issues (like heathcare choice) that are the political winners.
Given that, I have no issue with putting the economic and choice issues front and center while holding the freedom/constitutional arguments in reserve.
I’d much rather KILL BILL and never have to worry about it’s constitutionality and go through the courts and hope that a constitutional conservative doesn’t have a heart attack.
In addition, politically saying that Obamacare is a unprecedented seizure of govt power sounds alarmist. It’s true, but sometimes even when it’s true, it’s not always best to blatently call Obama the Marxist that he is. It can turn people off.
However, if you look at the polling data, the moderate middle is coming to realize what we already knew. Obama is a left wing socialist and is starting to be called even by some moderates as such.
-Polaris
I also say, this is the reason we are revisiting this whole “Universal Govt HC” debate once again – conservatives have never debunked the basic socialist premise that Government run HC is a fundamental right~~~canis latrans
Unfortunately correct, as their has never been much in the way of opposing it on the basic premise of it’s socialist nature, but rather on the pragmatic “it costs too much ” approach. Implying of course that if it was cheaper, the GOP would gladly sign on for it, thus accepting the fraud of national health care.
People’s eyes sometimes glaze over when discussing basic constitutional/freedom issues, but pocketbook issues they understand.
there
#162 Morrissy at Hot Air is being WAY too optimistic. Obamacare is the crownjewel of the Dems and they are so close they can almost taste it. If political considerations were the only ones that applied, the bill would have long since died.
Obama (and Pelosi) will stop at nothing and do ANYTHING to get this passed no matter what and no matter who has to walk the plank and not matter what Senate rules have to be broken.
Bank on it.
-Polaris
#162 Again, SO WHAT…..the Government Option is a very minimal part of the takeover…..
As I have said, it was always a diversion for both left and right plus was bargined away for Health Insurance lobby support….
Its no victory for conservatives if “the public option is dead” as the rest of ScaryCare is the takeover….
To put this out as if we have defeated the takeover is foolish and misleading…
Why people who supposedly know what they are talking about keep putting out this simplistic premise that only the Public Option is Government Heatlh Care is beyond me…..I know why the left pushes this notion as it keeps people from understanding what the real takeover plan is….why commentators on the right buy into this ruse is beyond me unless they are simply intellectually lazy or cant understand what is actually going on themselves….
I think everyone who fears our deficit and national debt is being rational. I do not downplay the risk of our debt.
1. I might add that wall street does not have to make money in the USA. Companies like GE-Pepsi-Coke can make a ton of money overseas. That is spurning the market on.
2. There is a huge pool of corporate cash, personal savings plus the ability to borrow money that spurns on corporate acquisitions who buoys the market.
3. I might add that America’s employees are paying the price right now for our debt and deficit. I feel for the 10% unemployed. In less then a year we went from 5% being a decent unemployment rate to 10% being the new norm. In addition forget asking for a raise and if you graduating college better look into graduate school. I cannot downplay what a huge tidal wave of change that it. That’s the trade off with inflation. Massive semipermanment unemployment. The Fed and white house see no job relief until 2011. Mercy
4. yes Americans are saving. We cannot out save the deficit but we can outsave the stimulus.
#162 Morrissy at Hot Air is being WAY too optimistic~~polaris
Exactamundo:
Whatever comes from conference will be acceptable to the house. These neo marxists have waited too long to quit now. Even without the option/abortion issue, this thing i still a large enough power grab to please the dedicated left.They know that it’s now or never.
Again, SO WHAT…..the Government Option is a very minimal part of the takeover…..
Agreed.
But…
Without it, many D’s might consider a NO vote.
Yup some wishful thinking in 162, hey I hope it’s right, but I doubt it.
Without it, many D’s might consider a NO vote.
Comment by Howard Dean —
If piglosi wants it to pass without some of the goodies, she has a large broom.
This is about delaying for as long as possible.
The closer we get to 11/10..the better.
Yeah why worry about the long term effects of 100+ Trillion in unfunded liabilities.
166 – absolutely correct. They are so close they can taste it. The opportunity to take over 1/6 of the American economy is a once in history opportunity. They want it and they want it bad!
#163 & #164 I hear what you are saying but is this actually the best way to go about the politics of the matter….
People’s personal prosperity is directly related to the amount of freedom they have and are allowed to exercise in the free market….
Is it that hard to explain that people?
I mean, this is the essential truth of the matter: free people making rational choices in their best interest in the free market always results in best outcome for the most people!
I would also add, someone should probably be explaining to people that the free market by and large works for the vast majority of people in HC and everything else. The typical leftist ploy is to find the exception to the rule and trumpet that loundly as the rule. Basically, they demand perfection and promise the governemtn will deliver it. People need to know Utopia is not attainable by the government or anyone else on the planet earth.
Best hope is drag it out as long as possible so the crap that is in this bill will be exposed bit by bit.
“Is it that hard to explain that people?”
—
It’s not hard to explain, it’s hard for them to comprehend, assuming you can even hold their attention for 5 minutes.
#170 Maybe, but I doubt that too many leftist will give up what they know to be a huge power grab….
Sure, they will be some wailing and a big drama show for the leftist idiots on KOS etc, who really dont understand how the power grab really works…..but in the end those idiots will blindly support too.
The bottomline is the same: power grab and they all know it
Best hope is drag it out as long as possible so the crap that is in this bill will be exposed bit by bit.
Comment by Phil — November 9, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
Exactly.
And everytime something big happens, like removing, fighting or filibustering specifics, like the public option..that delays things.
btw did the 45% top rate make it into the final house bill, or is that lunacy going to be hid somewhere else?
btw did the 45% top rate make it into the final house bill, or is that lunacy going to be hid somewhere else?
Comment by KnightHawk — November 9, 2009 @ 3:20
I’m only on page 3 of 2,000.
Drip drip drip, like the stimulus only hopefully without it passing first. Public needs to hear the horrid details, every couple days highlighting a new disastrous feature.
Howard, you know I usually like to dig in a read these bills, but I gave up during the summer with this one, too dam big and I knew that it would change 1000 times before being voted on.
#178 I am sure we have millions of people out there like that, however I have to think that most people will get it if properly messaged and consistently stated….
I mean, assuming people are stupid is the liberals premise so I dont buy into it myself….
Pretty much, I dont think conservatives or the GOP has tried because talking taxes, etc is the “easy out” and what they are comfrotable with and understand….
Poll tested responses and CW doesnt help…..
In any case, if we dont make this case that individual liberty/personal freedom are directly related to properity/security we will continue to fight a losing battle to those who push government intervention and passing out of taxpayer funded lollipops for votes while taking your most basic rights away….
#168 Plus you federal reserve has DOUBLED the money supply in under a year!
All that newly printed cash is being lended out at near 0% interest – it has to go somewhere since it certainly isnt being spent by consumers or being lent to business for expansion/hiring….
Hense, we are creating a stock market bubble….
KH, If you read a page a day, you wouldn’t finish by the 2012 election!
185 – I didn’t say they are stupid, though a good bunch are, many just don’t care can’t be bothered track all this stuff or do any independent research on their own, you have to bottom-line it in digestible form for them.
Can the Senate do that!
1 page a day!
187 – LOL, nice observation.
http://www.breitbart.tv/california-state-worker-claims-seiu-members-beat-him-bloody/
This is about delaying for as long as possible.
The closer we get to 11/10..the better.
Comment by Howard Dean
Yes,however after the election and our side has the majority, they won’t be seated until 2011. Those defeated bluedogs(with nothing left to lose) can still vote this thing through( out of revenge or they support it) before congress adjourns for the year.
#188 Agreed, but the GOP and conservative dont even try to message this. Or at least not consistently…..and it kills us in debates like this as we have fundamentally given into the premise that government must “do something” for every fake crisis the left dreams up.
Government intervention is the problem not people having too much freedom!
#192 Very true. Another way these low lifes might push this thru….
Winning that special election in MA by the GOP would help greatly…..thats a pretty big long shot but it would be better to have 41 Senators would be better…
With the vote Saturday night, Dems assured their loss of at least the House in next year’s elections. With rising unemployment, even the Senate has an outside chance of flipping next year. Dems are overreaching with all this garbage, and Americans are finally waking up to it.
Has the GOP even decided to run a candidate in that election, Wilye?
“”The system is not doing what it’s supposed to do,” said Dr. Val Finnell, who complained to administrators at a military university about what he considered Hasan’s “anti-American” rants. “He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out.”
Finnell studied with Hasan from 2007-2008 in the master’s program in public health at the military’s Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., where Hasan persistently complained about perceived anti-Muslim sentiment in the military and injected his politics into courses where they had no place.
“In retrospect, I’m not surprised he did it,” Finnell said of the shootings. “I had real questions about what his priorities were, what his beliefs were.”
…..
Hasan reportedly jumped up on a desk and shouted “Allahu akbar!” – Arabic for “God is great!” – at the start of Thursday’s attack.
-ap
—
Not to worry, investigators are still searching for motive.
#196 I heard the name but dont remember who it is…..if they were serious about winning that then somebody like Rommney or Weld would run…..dont see that happpening….
Maybe someone already posted this but if not enjoy this Hot Air/AP piece which is fairly optimistic to our side…
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/09/ap-public-option-is-dead/
Weld lives in New York now and is a wealthy Wall Street businessman. It’s unlikely he’d move back to Massachusetts to run for the Senate again.
Lets not jump to conclusions, the WH is low on beer at the moment.
#199 It’s been posted. He’s being WAY too optimistic because he’s making conventional political calculations when the people that are pusing Obamacare don’t care about conventional political calculations.
-Polaris
“however after the election and our side has the majority”
—
Possible, but still a bit of little wishful thinking on the GOP’s part.
GOP will pick up seats for sure, shear political winds and all, but to take back the house you need a GOP leadership that has effective messaging and actions that are consistent with such, recruits great candidates and stay behind them, and in short doesn’t blow the massive opportunity presented. My confidence in that happening at the moment is not high.
Wylie, re: 186
You are right on with that observation. What is going on right now in the market is the world’s greatest carry trade. Money is being borrowed at basically zero interest rates. Its not being reinvested in businesses (too much uncertainty) nor is it being lent out by banks (who remain shell-shocked)….its simply finding its way back into the markets creating an increasingly frightening bubble.
We just NEVER learn from our mistakes. These sort of bubbles work until they don’t (yeah, I know, real profound), but that’s how it goes.
….and when it stops working all hell breaks loose.
Well, Knight, on the Senate side, the GOP has recruited outstanding candidates in a host of races and is likely to get more on board. As far as the House goes, they’ve tentatively set up a list of 70 Dems to be seriously challenged with the possibility of more being added. Several Republicans who lost close elections last year are jumping into races, and the healthcare debacle Saturday is likely to get more in. This combined with an economy that’s going to hit 11% unemployment by next summer is likely to bolster GOP chances of winning at least one house of Congress next year.
For you, Knight:
http://www.fantasybaseballdugout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/diana_chiafair_miss_fhm.jpg
Wes I know all that, it will doesn’t ensure things anywhere close to assuming we’re going to control the house come 2011. Let me channel the good Reverend – Don’t count your chickens until they have come home to roust.
mmm mmm mmm
Wes, coming soon to an internet near you.
I dont know if anyone has brought up the hypocrisy of the left yet with regards to the mandate, which I agree with Wylie is just as onerous and heinous as the public option. As well as being just a big a grab on personal liberty as the public option.
Think of the hypocrisy in this though. I dont care where you come down on the abortion argument, and this isnt a pro or con abortion debate inducing statement, its solely to show how hypocrital the left is. If choice is a justification to allow abortion for those on the left, you know, “my body, my choice” then why does the government now not allow me the CHOICE to NOT purchase health insurance? Is choice is ok for abortion but not purchasing insurance? The far left is pushing for this, yet they also push for abortion rights, yet without seeing the hypocrisy in the statement.
will = still
“…the National Republican Senatorial Committee [announced] that it will not give money or support to the Senate campaign of Kelly Ayotte or any other Republican Senate candidate running in a primary contest in 2010…”
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Ayotte+denies+any+concern+about+national+GOP+decision&articleId=885ec2c6-9ef9-4ce7-b3d8-f5bd3e43a2aa
I wish I could share Wyle E. Coyote’s optimism about next years elections, but I must wait and see. If the party goes the way of the country club elites, then it will simply run candidates slightly to the right of the DEMS. They will simply be not be much better than the Pelosi circus we have now.
Lets hope the conservatives actually prevail in dominating the GOP or we simply won’t have an opposition party that’s worth two farts in the breeze.
I’ve heard about that before, Knight. Supposedly it’s a solo film of her. I didn’t know wholesome Christian girls were supposed to be into masturbation.
Polaris
My sources on the hill, who are usually very reliable, have said that they have always intended to use the budget option if there was too much resistance to the bill, and they couldnt get cloture. They are working on the strategy to incorporate it as we speak, and you can almost count on it going that way. Its heinous.
It seems to me, Jay, that’s Cornyn’s way of saying, “We’ll back the candidate the voters choose.” I see no problem with it.
Reminds me of another issue, with the economy the way it will the GOP and related organization be able to raise the necessary funding for all these races? I sure as hell am not giving to them, even if the economy was flying sky high, I will give directly to candidates and niche organizations but I’ve long since done donating to the party or the congressional committees and I doubt I’m alone in that.
#215: I was wondering if they have NY-23 in the back of their minds. The article made this sound unusual, since they recruited her, but I have no idea.
What is it about women in business suits that’s so appealing?
http://img527.imageshack.us/i/0804tpchoneysslide4.jpg/
KnightHawk
Niche organizations are the way to go. Im working with a foundation that started the Ten in Ten, and will raise money directly for conservative candidates that have a good chance to knock of Dems. We are also going to raise money to get involved in the local races, with things like the GOTV and issue education in districts with Dems that are very liberal, and where there are conservative candidates that can possibly win if they have economic parity.
Actually, Jay, the NRCC didn’t recruit Scozzafava. The local party chairs chose her. Also, Owens broke four–FOUR!!!!–campaign promises in voting for that bill. He’s gone next year.
Ten in ‘10 sorry
#203 Call me a cynic too but I see a large part of the GOP establishment at best indifferent to Obamacare passing and at worst part/parcel in enabling it to happen by not mounting a coherent oppositon due to their calculation that this will accure to their electoral benefit in 10…..in other words, they could careless about us getting sold down the river if they can win a couple of short term elections before the retire….
At least I have heard the BS fantasy of “this can be repealed if we win in 10″…….histroy has proven that has NEVER happened in a democratic nation…..the line has been repeated on here and elsewhere so much that it appears to be an organized effort to push for less then vigourous opposition to Obamacare….
But hey, I am a crazy ranter accordding to some on HHR lol
213 – Thought it was between her and her ex-boyfriend, or so says the article. Don’t know what one has to do with the other though on the wholesome count – never known anyone to listen to the church on that count.
215 – Agreed, 99% of the time they ought to stay the hell out of the primary.
My one concern about next year is the ideologically pure among the GOP. The moonbats at BeJosephStalin.com were openly praying for Christie to lose earlier this year and calling him a RINO because he didn’t toe the line on every issue for them. I wonder if people like them could refuse to vote for GOP candidates and help assure continued Dem control of Congress next year if certain candidates are good on some issues but not willing to walk the plank for them on others.
Then again, in 1996, the GOP primary voters in Illinois picked Al Salvi. We all know how that worked out.
218 – The presumed brains behind the bod.
Ayotte does not want the national GOP enedorsement. She is running on her own merits. She wants to be elected not selected.
From what I’ve heard, Knight, the boyfriend filmed the tape, but she was alone on it. Not having seen it though, I can’t say for certain.
Given the current state of the GOP in New Hampshire, it may be for the best Ayotte is not seeking the NRSC’s imprimatur. That’s strange since there are more Republicans than Dems in NH.
Wes there is a reason I didn’t say 100%, there may be a rare case of extreme situations on either side of the dial.
229 – We’ll have to rectify that situation.
#212 You must have me confused with another Coyote lol
I have made no predictions period about next years election except to assume that the GOP will make some sort of gain…..I think its much too far out to assume it will be enough to be a majority in either house….
I have also consistently stated that EVEN if the GOP had the most optimum results in 10 or even 12 (ie control of both the legislative and executive branches) there would be no possible way to repeal HC once it is passed…..
Salvi being the case in point in that regard, Knight. As an aside, Tommy-boy has endorsed Mark Kirk’s primary challenger–the guy who said he plans to emulate Salvi’s 1996 election strategy.
My sources on the hill, who are usually very reliable, have said that they have always intended to use the budget option if there was too much resistance to the bill, and they couldnt get cloture. They are working on the strategy to incorporate it as we speak, and you can almost count on it going that way. Its heinous.
Comment by VictrC
That is a two edged sword that could come back to haunt them. If they use that precedent on this bill,and bypass the filibuster, our side can do the same thing to repeal it.
#226 Ahhhh, the ghost of Al Salvi rides again lol
225 – “were openly praying for Christie to lose “,
Reminds me of a guy named Wes that was doing the same, should we call him a moonbat too? Christi is a CINO but the best NJ can do atm, and the vast majority at BJG stated and accepted similar.
there would be no possible way to repeal HC once it is passed…..
Comment by wylie e. coyote – patriotic american citizen — November 9, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
There would probably be a way, but not the will.
#235 That would assume the GOP has a pair and someone other then Barak Hussein Obama MMM MMM MMM is in the WH and wont veto…..
Basically, the Detriot Lions have a better chance of turning it around this year and making the playoffs then winning the super bowl then that happening IMHO
My reason for wanting Christie to lose had nothing to do with his iedology. In fact, he’s much closer to my own political views than Corzine. I wanted Corzine to win because New Jersey deserves to go straight to the Hell he was creating for it for all its rampant corruption and socialistic paternalism.
I posted last week that cash for clunkers was a classic case of stealing from the poor to give money to the rich. Folks who were better off got extra money for their trade ins when they bought a new car. Poorer folks buying used cars are paying higher prices. So the wine and cheese crowd of effite liberals driving their Japanese small cars got a federal handout while the working poor are finding their used cars and trucks cost 16% more.
To be its a classic case of how Liberals try to even things out but end up making the wealthy better off and the poor worse off.
Obama’s policies since 01-20-2009 have often been Robin Hood in reverse bills. The Fed has flooded the market with cash so billionaires can borrow very cheaply to buy distressed properties. Businesses are scared to hire folks under the Obama threat of Cap/Trade-Obamacare-financial deregulation so we have record unemployment. So we are seeing the gap between the rich and poor increase again under Obama.
The Poor/lower middle class are losing their jobs while the Rich find it cheaper to buy and to borrow.
I think we will find that in 2012 that gap between rich and poor grew faster in obama’s 4 years then in all of Bush’s 8 years
Mark Kirk voted for cap&tax that makes him next to useless to me, if he wins in the end so be, better then the current POS, but he’ll get no money for real support from me.
“I’m only on page 3 of 2,000.”
Farther than most of the Democrats who voted for it….
Speaking of cash for clunkers, a buddy of mine in Cali sent me a text yesterday saying the majority of the tradeins were old F-150s for new F-150s. If that’s true, then that program was even more of a CF than I thought.
Kirk is fine for Illinois…don’t get greedy. Put an R in front of Obama’s seat and it will be a huge coup. I will certainly send him a few bucks if it looks like he could get this seat.
I never thought I’d say this, but I’m actually hoping Joseph Cao loses next year. I could stomach pretty much any votes of his before this. Cap and trade, rebuking Joe Wilson, the stimulus–I could overlook all those because he’s a Republican represnting a 70% Dem district. Voting for healthcare though–oh, hell, no! That being said, with the way he’s been voting and the way the political environment is shaping up, he probably has a–remote–chance at this point.
I never thought I’d say this, but I’m actually hoping Joseph Cao loses next year. I could stomach pretty much any votes of his before this. Cap and trade, rebuking Joe Wilson, the stimulus–I could overlook all those because he’s a Republican represnting a 70% Dem district. Voting for healthcare though–oh, hell, no! That being said, with the way he’s been voting and the way the political environment is shaping up, he probably has a–remote–chance at this point.
So far, Kirk seems to eb the narrow frontrunner over Giannoulias, Jason.
245 – Jason I’m not getting greedy, for candidates to actually get money from me there is a threshold, Mr. Kirk doesn’t pass mine, if others want to donate I have no problem with that.
“hoping Joseph Cao loses next year” – Hahah Sunday morning I sent him a nice note telling him to enjoy his last year in office.
I am a Conservative who has personally met Mark Kirk. He is a good man who made a mistake due to his 50% liberal district on cap and trade. He will make a fine Senator and is a Military Veteran and National Reserve Officer.
He voted against Pelosi Care.
For all we know, Knight, that vote got him reelected. I know his district is overwhelmingly Dem, but he’s been voting almost in lockstep with the Dem leadership and managed to secure some pork in return for his yes vote. I doubt it’s likely he’ll win reelection, but unless the Dems nominate a supercandidate against him, he’ll probably at least make a decent run in his reelect bid at this point.
I was waiting for Cao to switch to the DEMS today. Obama probably promised him no primary challenge if he ran as a DEM for his HC vote
#248
Isn’t Giannoulias the San Diego chicken?
Only Cao among all Republicans voted for it, Jason.
Folks,
I have been observing the postings since 2003. Majority of the time, the postings, comments, and insights have been impressive. A lot of my friends, also, monitor HHR from across the country,ie, FL,TX, KS, CA,OK.
For this instance I will stay my opinion, this is an excellent forum for today’s issues. We are very fortunate to have Polaris! Generally, he places facts above opinions.
I am a behavioral scientist who has watched this insidious erosion of the American culture since the early 70’s. We have been under attack for decades. Look at what has happened to our free-enterprise, constitutional freedoms based cultural building blocks: Family, Religion, Education, National Security and now, Business and Health. The framework is crumbling!
I plan to try to contribute to the site. My contributions will be based on facts not opinions. If I do analysis or state an opinion, it will be so noted.
If voter sentiment remains about where it is today (i.e. rep base up, dem base of aa’s and immatures down, indies going 20+ for reps etc), here’s my prediction for 2010:
Reps gain 11+ governorships (in addition to the 2 already in the bag)
Reps gain 9+ Senate seats
Reps gain 65-95 House seats
Too numerous to count state legislatures
I don’t think Cao switches. Many Americans of Vietnames descent seem to ahve an antipathy for the Dem Party because of Vietnam.
Wes, I give you much credit for your prediction during the 2008 Elections. You said the DEMS would win and then would overreach big time.
Thanks, Jason. It’s the ebb of flow of politics.
#252 – I doubt it, less he switches (probably will) then he has a shot.
253 – Yeah Dem’s are great at keeping there promises, lol, hope he’s not counting on taking that to the bank.
Sam if Unemployment stays double digits, and the dollar continue to fade this could be true.
The markets are up because the dollar is almost worthless. US stocks are cheap to foreign investors.
256…welcome aboard. You are a behavioral scientist?
I am a theologian, so we should get along great.
Wes:
Cao is gone.
The Dems are not dependent on him for anything.
His is a AA seat, the Black Caucus is not going to leave it for him. Whether he runs for re-election as a Rep or a Dem.
Wes, I think the DEMS are going to see a Electoral wipeout in the South in 2010.
sam, what nine senate seats do you see us picking up?
I dig the optimism, just seem overstated given it’s November, not next July, life time still left.
Knight, I think Boehner did a great job Saturday night. I have always ripped on him, but the GOP did the right wing with Stupak amendment.
Rumor is Boehner was told by Senate insiders that the crap was DOA there,that the GOP keeps the Pro-Life vote in 2010.
MikeP – Welcome to the fray!
KH:
What did I say about the caveat? IF the voters’s mood is similar to today’s.
Voters are very angry and fearful (witness NJ and VA). They will take it out on the incumbent party, and it happens to be the Dems this time.
sam:
One of the best methods to project the numbers is to look at what Charlie Cook says and double it. You are a little high, but I will say that in off years ( non presidential ) the voters are usually even more Republican than Presidential ones, so a bigger landslide is certainly possible. To get to your numbers, large numbers of places like NJ and NY will have to start seeing red patches again. These prog hells are so stupid since the people with a brain have moved on, that I will believe that when I see it.
I would have tried killing it at all costs instead of relying on assurances from the senate “insiders”, now just have to sit back and hope they are right.
The two ton gorilla of budget recon is still in the room. 51 votes needed to pass, no filibuster.
Plus dingy harry reid can always attach this cluster foxtrot as a rider to another piece of crap legislation, that carries greater support.
At this point, Knight, Dems are behind or not doing well in 8 seats:
Delaware
Illinois
New York (assuming Pataki actually announces)
Pennsylvania
Arkansas
Colorado
Nevada (I seriously hope Reid actually follows through on emulating Corzine’s reelection strategy)
Connecticut
Races where they are favored but not automatically guaranteed reelection are as follows:
California
Wisconsin
A race that will tilt sharply toward the GOP if a certain Republican announces is as follows:
North Dakota
Races potentially competitive with the right candidates are, in order of possibility, as follows:
Washington
Vermont
Hawaii
Although there are several competitive GOP seats, the trend among all of them–as in 2006 for the Dems–is away from the party running Washington.
I just wish the Republicans would get a strong candidate to run against Bayh. Despite his attempts at appearances, he’s a far-left Dem who votes almost always in lockstep with his party. Unemployment would have to stay above 11% into next fall for the GOP to seriously challenge him though. Hope is eternal nonetheless.
#271 Yeah, I am not sleeping easy. If I had a Dollar for each time ove the last three month that some insider, “expert”, or other form of pronosticator proclaimed CrappyCare dead I would now have more money then Soros LOL
So far, nothing has derailed this train…..and nothing will next to near rioting in the streets and like 25%-75% for/against public opinion….
As a conservative Catholic I would also like to apologize for my Church comments Saturday Night.
I was pissed and thought they should have voted present in the GOP, but I talked to a Associate Poly Sci Professor here in Chicago and he explained the situation due to his D.C channels.
The GOP went to conference before the Stupak vote and was told not only by GOP Senate insiders, but also by DEM Senate Pro-Life insiders, that this crap was DOA anyways. Boehner was told also that Pelosi would strip the amendment in Conference anyways which would kill the bill in the House.
Boehner would have lost Pro-Life endorsements and GOTV in 2010. this fiend of mine predicted Christie would win .
I miss Ronald Reagan so much! I remember watching him on “Death Valley Days” around 1965 – I even had a model of the Borax 20 Mule Team wagon with the mules as a kid! Unlike those posting that they were young teens when the Berlin Wall came down…I was in my mid-30s. It was a glorious time for those of us (Baby Boomers) who grew up with duck and cover drills (as if getting under our desks would protect us from a nuclear war)! My dad was a career military man, so our family was stationed in Germany during the years just after the wall went up in Berlin – and the German people were so disheartened. For those old enough, do you remember the photos of East Germans being killed during attempts to cross the “no man’s land” to get to the American zone? I’ll never understand Americans who idolize the likes of Castro, Chavez, and Che (those stupid tee shirts) – they seem to me to be the most ignorant, spoiled rotten people on earth.
Between the South and the Rocky Mountain States next year, I see the GOP with the strong possibility of a 24-35 seat gain with the outside possibility of making it all the way to 40. They look to be in good shape to make lesser gains in other areas of the country with a possibility of an electoral bonanza equating to or possibly exceeding gains made in years like 1914, 1946, or 1994.
271, 274…I also agree. Voting “Present” was the perfect solution because it wouldn’t have been an active NO vote against something that appeared to be pro-life, and it would have exposed the amendment for what it was.
Thanks for the shout-outs Brandon and KH.
That was a brilliant post, Annie.
Wes, Senate races look at lot like 1980 where many DEM incumbents got swept out. 1994 there were many more DEM Retirements.
Jason T
The Bishops of North America have come out strongly against any bill that funds abortions. They have told every parishoner in the country to call their reps and senators and tell them that no HC reform should carry provisions which fund abortions with tax payer funds, and that if such a bill is presented they should instruct their reps and senators to vote no.
Two weeks in a row, from two different states the same message was delivered.
You wanted something even stronger?
Mike pence is from indiana, and would make a great senator, but then again he would make a great POTUS as well.
These elections are more like what I hope 2010 resembles in the House though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_elections,_1920
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_elections,_1894
Kruthammer, who I truly respect, said on FOX that Reid will not abe able to make any movement on this junk until 2010, which effectively kills this bill.
Pelosi need this done quick like they tried to do in July, becaue every day that goes by, more leaks out about this marxist bill
Pence is great, but will take Lugar’s seat when he retires.
Agreed, Jason. That’s been a HUGE problem for the GOP in the Senate over the past couple of decades: They rarely beat dem incumbents and hemorrhage a large number of their own. Well, now it looks as if they’re going to be able to reverse that trend for the next couple of cycles anyway.
I wish Pence would challenge Bayh rather than wait for Lugar to retire.
Wes,
I agree with your Senate 2010 assessment, tracks my own.
For the House races, I have analyzed each house race in some detail, and am confident about my 65-95 seat projection (provided the mood of the voters – which is an amalgam of all that is going on in the country – remains as it is today) If the mood improves, I project a gain of 35 seats, if it deteriorates, the number could be as high as 95-100. If it remains where it is today, we are looking at 65 seats +/-.
Cook et al are trying to sound the alarm without being too alarmist. If Cook really believed that the Dems would only lose 20+/- in the House, he wouldn’t care. Come on, if you had a 255+ seats, and you were projected to lose only 15-20, would you panic?
Hawaii – No offense but that got me giggling, Inouye need to be wheeled out of the senate, not sure even Lingle could take that seat and she’s relatively liked.
DE,IL,NY,PA – looking better then expected.
AR,CO,NV,CT – possible.
CA,WI – long shots, will need quite the ‘wave’ to be carried over the finish line.
ND,WA,VT – admittedly I have not looked at these at all so can’t comment.
We could also screw up KY, MO, though we are favored and should have the wind at our backs, have not checked in on NH or OH lately what are those two looking like?
#276 Unfortunately, a whole generation has grown up not seeing the real brutality that was communism and have been “educated” by the likes of Bill Ayers/Ward Churchill/Micheal Moore’s to hate freedom/individual liberty…..
I was watching one show on the wall and an escapee said this when asked why he risked his life to leave “those who grew up in Freedom cannot understand what it is like not to have it. If you do not have it, you will give or do anything to obtain it!”
Simply put, there are lots of people who get sold and believe that socialism/statistism will bring utopia if only tried by “the right people”. The fact is, since the basic premise of government intervention is wrong, the socilist system must always rely on ever increasing amount of force in its attempts to make a fundamentally flawed idea work…….
Unfortunately, since it is such a seductive abstract/academic idea it continued to be pedalled here in this country and practiced in the fom of Big Government…..
275 – That is interesting, if nothing else it’s an explanation.
Ayotte is ahead in New Hampshire. Portman has broken out to slightly ahead of Brunner and Fisher in recent polls. He has no primary opposition and a lot more more money than either of them–the winner of whose contest will come out of a divisive primary–will be able to raise. I’d say he’s a slight favorite at the moment.
Gary, my problem with the Church is that they have become a 2 trick pony.. They oppose Abortion and Gay Marriage, which is of course correct, but then Support Socialism. I realize they try to stay out of politics, but does the church realize that Marxism and this bill will create a permanent liberally controlled government that will eventually liberalize abortion to become like a drive thru fast food abortion clinic.
Wes,
Ayotte isn’t a guarantee to come out of a primary.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/11/obama-and-netanyahu-after-dark/1
I wonder how much Obama was able to learn at this meeting from a REAL leader?
Knight, my friend to Georgetown undergrad, but is very centrist.
Boehner could not vote present on a Pro-Life bill
#275 Then they were IDIOTS. The GOP should have insured that the Stupak amendment failed either by voting ‘nay’ or ‘present’…wouldn’t matter which.
Instead they are being sold down the river on the promise that it will be dead in the future when they COULD have killed this bill for good on Saturday.
Geez, with friends like that, the GOP doesn’t need any more enemies.
I don’t care what EXCUSES the GOP and GOP-leaning sites have to say, allowing the Stupak amendment to pass was STUPID and we’ll very likely to pay and pay (for decades) for that stupidity.
Don’t forget that Reid has the majority needed for the budget reconcilliation nuclear option and he WILL use it. The Dems know they are going to get slaughted in 2010. Most don’t care and Obama certainly doesn’t. Those that do are dead on arrival anyway…the Leftist moonbats will make sure of that.
-Polaris
I don’t really have Hawaii on a list of GOP pickups, Knight. What had me put it on my list as a peripheral potential upset is three things:
1) Lingle’s popularity shoudl she run (Polls have her about 10 behind Inouye)
2) The economic situation there
3) The hint of scandal brewing around Inouye
Seriously I don’t expect the seat to flip, but if things continue to trend away from the Dems, then it could be a last-minute upset much as Slade Gorton’s 1980 win over six-term incumbent Warren Magnuson was.
#288 – Someone should, if nothing else to keep him on his toes,though I’d rather spend extra dollars taking down Dingy.
Palin isn’t a guarantee to move to West Virginia and run for Byrd’s seat either, Tommy.
#285 Krauthammer is wrong. I respect him too, but Krauthammer is assuming that the Dems won’t act in such a way that hurts their chances of reelection or makes them too popular with their constituancies.
I’m telling you that this time Krauthammer is completely misreading the Dems. They don’t care about getting reelected….not when their holy grail of socialized healthcare is this close.
-Polaris
If the economy continues to deteriorate, Knight, then the GOP will be able to spread money around to a lot of vulnerable Dem seats and still make headway. Besides, Menendez on the Dem side has been pisspoor at candidate recruitment while Cornyn has been much more aggressive and successful at getting the candidates he wants and needs.
Wes, Lingle is on a tight rope.
She has much exposure as the Governor which would help her immensely in a Senate run. But she is term limited in 2010, and once she is out of office will she be able to win a Special election if Innouye or Akaka pass away?
298…exactly. They care not how many are taken out in 2010, because they know eventually, they get it all back with Obamacare socialism. Saturday night was a kamikaze mission, and there were many dems ready and willing to jump into the cockpits of 1-way planes. GOP should NOT have played their amendment game. In fact, they shouldn’t have been in there at all! They should have said, its Saturday night, this is your baby, you own it…and walked out.
299 – Lingle and scandal might get her close, but frankly Hawaiians have never struck me as the type of constituents to really care about the scandal – unless it means they themselves were getting screwed.
That may be true for some, Polaris, but there are others who are going to look after their own continued political viability rather than jump off a cliff for their leadership.
#303 None of that will make a difference if Obamacare passes. It will get just enough people on the govt teet and thus voting “liberal” to lock in the Dems in a majority position forever.
There may well be “republican” govts in the future afterwords but they no longer will bear any resemblance to what we call ‘republican’ today.
-Polaris
The same could have been said about Alaskans last year, Knight.
#275 Then they were IDIOTS. The GOP should have insured that the Stupak amendment failed either by voting ‘nay’ or ‘present’…wouldn’t matter which.
Then on the other hand, it would be hard to explain to your pro life constituents why you did that. Most of them won’t understand the nuances of political strategy,especially when the amend. will be stripped in conference antway,and the wavering pro life blue dogs will still support the bill in the end~~methinks.
Jason T
I think you must be under some misconception. The North American Bishops have never made such a clear pronouncement in my 20 + years sitting in Mass.
There was some misinformation floating around about them having endorsed Pelosicare, that was refuted almost immediately.
There certainly are liberal priests who use some of the parables in the Bible to support their liberal ideology. That is not all priests, and is not the policy of the Church as can only be set by the Bishops.
NO taxpayer fundings of Abortion is the unadulterated position of the Bishops. If you went to Mass either of the last two weekends, you almost certainly got the word plus were given a flyer to take home with you!
#307 I don’t think you understand just how important and how much of a crusade this has become for the left. If any of the weak-kneed “moderate” dems opposes them, they will LOSE in a liberal dominated Dem primary anyway.
Thus most of the Dems really can’t save their political skins no matter what they do…and those that can are the idealogues that are pushing this.
Please don’t think that political survival will stop the Dems from ramming Obamacare throught no matter what. Listen to Vic if not to me. The Dems are already planning on using the nuclear option.
-Polaris
Jason, if either Inouye or Akaka dies, then Lingle would be the clear frontrunner for the seat assuming it doesn’t happen while she’s still Governor. Then again, if Aiona (her Lt Gov) succeeds her next year, then he would probably appoint her upon the death of either. The sad thing for the Hawaiian Dem Party is that although it is dominant in the state, it has no stars past those already holding office while Lingle is a rockstar who has mass appeal and would easily win a special election to replace either of Hawaii’s current Senators.
#310 I tell them this: I voted present to kill that healthbill you hate. If you want to vote me out of office for protecting your interests than so be it.
It’s NOT hard to explain such a vote. Please stop with the excuses.
-Polaris
#302 Thats why I dont sleep well at night….we have the party of Stupid as our only resort to defend our freedom legislatively….then all but a few in our so-called conservative media who want to view whats going on thru the prism of CW politics…..essentially, they are like generals refighting the last war……we are getting blitzedkrieged by Obama and on our side we have the equalivent of old French generals fight by the rules of the previous war that no-longer apply….
Polaris, I completely respect your position, but disagree. I think you give Obama way too much credit.
I’m telling you that this time Krauthammer is completely misreading the Dems. They don’t care about getting reelected….not when their holy grail of socialized healthcare is this close.
-Polaris
Exactamundo.
I’m aware, Polaris.
MikeP look forward to your analysis.
310 Quixote well said. Most pro-life voters are not abreast of complicated bills, just the pro life stance. Dems would have used it against us.
If the Dems are bent on ramming the HC through, ther’s nothing you or anyone can do.
Lay back and enjoy.
309 – Not even close in comparison in my view.
Wes, fair enough on Lingle.
One reason I can never describe myself as pro-life on the abortion issues is that so many who adopt that view regard it as a political litmus test. Abortion is an important issues, but there are so many other things going on right focusing on it is counterproductive and distorts the real nature of what we fight against.
It’s NOT hard to explain such a vote. Please stop with the excuses.
-Polaris
Comment by Polaris
Explaining it is easy, but expecting the folks back home to understand, may be problematical.If the provision was going to be stripped anyway, why not let the enemy answer for it.I am excusing nothing, just showing their alternative thinking.
Polaris, how ill the liberals primary out DEM moderates in DEM states?
Ther is no way in Frickin’ Hell that moveon could beat Ben Nelson, Dorgan, Conrad, Blanche Lincoln etc. in states where the Democrats hate liberals too.
The nay votes will not be from the Northeast or CAL, but Redstates where liberals do not win primaries.
“If the Dems are bent on ramming the HC through, ther’s nothing you or anyone can do.”
Yes you can, there is plenty you can do. You can make it costly as heck. And unpopular. And you can educate the public on its consequences and effects.
The last thing we should do is relax and let it happen. We can ensure that if it does happen, there will be consequences for those who inflicted it upon us.
I meant RED states sorry.
Sa far as Lingle goes, it’s telling the only time the Dems beat her was with massive voter fraud they spent the next few years covering up.
#316 I loathe Obama and have for a long time. All the HHRs know this. However, I respect his political cunning and intelligence and I wish that more of you did as well. The difference is that read his book and researched (as much as I was able) his background. His NDS connections are clear. This is NOT your typcial Clinton-style, politico. If he were, Obamacare would have been allowed to die in comittee a long time ago with much less political damage to the Dems.
-Polaris
Ben Nelson is not afraid of Moveon, Nebraskan Democrats would nnever go for it.
When you have to defend any position with the voters, you have already lost.
You win by attacking your opponents’ positions, not by defending yours.
“It’s NOT hard to explain such a vote. Please stop with the excuses.”
Just the fact you have to “explain it” already makes it a bad idea. It would really muddle up the waters and there is no guarantee it would have stopped the bill. Such an obvious ploy in fact would not have stopped the bill.
Um, Jason, Conrad and Dorgan and EXTREMELY liberal. They win reelection because the GOP has never run any serious candidates against them and because they bring home the bacon. Of course recently Conrad’s scandal and the obviousness of Dorgan’s out-of-step voting patterns have caused the GOP to look at them as vulnerable. If Hoeven does decide to challenge Dorgan, then that will mark a major change in ND politics.
#326 The Move-On crowd have enough dominance in the Dem party to make it extremely difficult to win without them even in Red states in a Dem primary. Look at what happened with Lieberman (for example) and he had all sorts of advantages that most do not.
The Dems are scared to death of their nut-roots….unless they are part of that wing of the party of course.
-Polaris
Obama cunning?
How is crap and trade doing?
Could not convince Stevens and Ginsberg to retire.
Got crushed in New Jersey
Unemployment 10% and rising, dollar is sh%t
Afghanistan is turning into Vietnam
Polaris I am on your side, but Moderates do not want to bankrupt their party
Dems will never primary Nelson in Nebraska. He’s a reliable vote for most of what they want, and Obama could drag him down in 2012 anyway. There’s no way they’ll primary him and essentially start off 2012 with one seat already gone to the other side.
#333 Easy. I say I voted to kill the bill.
You are wrong. Compared with the minor cost of explaining the vote,I get to kill this monstrosity for good.
I swear that some of you just don’t get it.
-Polaris
“Most of them won’t understand the nuances of political strategy”
—
If that’s the case we have some problems, beyond just this bill. That said that statement is likely true of public in general. As voters they or we need to educate them.
To me Ayotte is an absolute fresh face. She is inexpirenced in retail poltics. So thankfully she will have 11 months til primary date in Sept 2010 to learn out to ask people for their vote.
I see her winning in the primary and the general election.
She is very conservative, has working class roots, is female and has a good ethic story
Someone above asked about the hope of getting Obamacare overturned once it is in place. Will. Never. Happen. The DEM campaign ads will write themselves:
“Meet Jane Smith. She has Cancer. Her only hope of getting treatment is our current government provided healthcare. The GOP wants her dead. Vote for Ima Fascist (D) for congress.”
Ethic and Ethnic story for Ayotte
Lieberman is from deep Blue state Conneticutt where a moron like Ned Lamont can win.
No amount of money or appearances by Obama could dislodge Ben Nelson or the North Dakota boys.
Once the voters found out their challengers were moveon they would get crushed.
I understand the concern about the Dem’s Holy Grail of universal healthcare, but at the end of the day, many will consider their political futures more important than the long-term dominance of the party and buck the leadership. It’s up to the GOP to ensure those that don’t pay the price–even as the Dems fail to achieve their ultimate goal.
“Lay back and enjoy.”
—
Would you like some butter on your popcorn?
“Compared with the minor cost of explaining the vote,I get to kill this monstrosity for good.”
How would this kill the bill?
As you have yourself stated, Obama will stop at nothing.
How would voting down Stupak Amendment kill the HC bill?
If Stupak Amendment had that power, Nancy would not even allow the amendment.
KH:
As Polaris has insisted, there is nothing – NOTHING – that is going to stop Obama.
So, if the end is already done, what is the point in opposing it?
Rdel, Tommy predicted a Corzine victory and a Deeds surge in the recnt elections. He also said people like Mike Castle and Mark kirk are the wrong candidates to run in Delware and Illinois. Since he’s the only source I’ve seen so far for Ayotte’s potential loss in the primary, I tend to discount it.
Polaris I get it and I agree. I just was explaining Boehner’s reasoning.
I am from Chicago, and I have seen Obama as a State Senantor on up. He is not cunning , he is a frickin empty suit.
This is all Rahm Emanuel
#336
1. Cap and Trade is not that important to Obama. He is happy to wait (as compared with Healthcare). Not passing it and pushing it is a smart political calculation on his part.
2. Stevens and Ginsberg? Let’s wait and see before you celebrate on that yet.
3. Losing by 4 points is not getting “crushed” anywhere. He lost because he tried to prop of one of the worst governors in history.
4. Don’t mistake cunning for arrogance. The mistakes that Obama has made have NOT been due to his stupidity and we would be wise to respect his political power and cunning and plan accordingly. Obama’s mistakes have been due to his own arrogance. We would be wise not to make the same mistake.
Respect him and understand where he is coming from. This is not clinton redux. This is a man on a mission and he will do anything to accomplish it.
-Polaris
338….I am with you. In fact, the morning after that bill, I called my mom who has a great head for politics, even though only ever had a high school education. As soon as I explained this amendment, she interrupted, “oh and I supposed the GOP all fell for it?!”
The whole point of this was the DEMS felt they had the GOP on the horns of a dilemma, and instead of walking away from both horns, they impaled themselves on one of them.
#349 Does it matter? Obama and Rahm at this point are joined at the hip.
-Polaris
I do not want to count any chickins for house or senate races in 2010.
Just pulling back to Aug or Sept 2008 would be 20-25 house seats. The Market crash certainly cost the GOP those number of seats.
Nov 2010 may be the 1st year anniversary of 10% unemployment.
It will be a brutal time to be a democrat.
I might add that if we examine Obama’s record in Nov 2010. What will his accomplishments be? Does any one see Cap & Trade passed? How about healthcare? Maybe one but not the other
At this point, i’d rather have Clinton in office. At least he was more concerned with his own political well-being than remaking the nation as a whole.
“However, I respect his political cunning and intelligence and I wish that more of you did as well.”
If his Presidency had turned out differently so far I might agree with you. But I don’t see much political cunning and intelligence so far, much to the contrary. Obama has squandered a tremendous amount of popularity he could have used to forge true bipartisanship and to achieve real results. He has chosen the all or nothing approach and thrown in his lot with the corrupt left wing of the Democrat party represented by Reid, Pelosi, Murtha, Dodd, Rangel, Frank, etc. He is rolling the dice instead of pursuing an approach that could have kept his popularity at record highs. His appointments for the most part have been ill thought out and made exclusively on ideological grounds instead of competency. His strategies for Iran, European Missiles, Afghanistan, Honduras, Gitmo, Venezuela etc. have all been miserable failures. His economic policies are disastrous.
Cunning and intelligence? One can argue you don’t get elected President without them. But from what I see so far, I vote for smoke and mirrors, not cunning and intelligence.
“Vote for Ima Fascist (D) for congress.”
—
Yeah noticed that guy is on a lot of ballots lately.
347 – Sam it was an attempt to interject some humor.
Obama was a great candidate. As the head of a government though, he’s proved to be an utter failure.
Right Wes. I agree with Polaris that the White House is cunning, but is is Rahm not Obama.
The Senators are egomanic lifers on the DEM Senate side and will screw even there own President to keep their seats.
President’s come and go, but not Chairmanships
Let’s see: If I’m a Senator and I have choice between my President and my reelection, I pick my reelection every time. Party dominanac ebe damned!
That should be dominance.
Clinton was a much better politician than Obama by far, and more cunning than Rahm.
The narrow House vote destroyed Healthcare.
We agree to disagree and I am not naive.
Look, mine is not the council of despair. I stand by what I say about Obama and Pelosi. The way to fight them is to make them PAY for the mistakes brought by their own arrogance.
Pelosi’s quick vote on healthcare was arrogance. If she lost the vote, then healthcare was effectively dead until next year and that would have been FOREVER since elections are coming up. Thus if the GOP had had the BRAINS to vote ‘present’ on Stupak, Pelosi’s bill would have FAILED when she (and Obama) were sure it would pass.
Checkmate.
Now we have to somehow stop the nuclear option in the senate.
Smoooth move GOP. Geez you GOP congressmen are stupid sometimes…..
-Polaris
#347 I dont beleive Polaris or anyone else on here said that NOTHING can be done to stop it….
I believe myself and Polaris have said repeatedly that we have SEEN nothing to indiciate that it had been stopped or that the D will relent based on conventional political calculations…..
I think that is the point Polaris is making with Stupak – that would have been an UNCONVENTIONAL political manuver by the GOP that LIKELY COULD HAVE upset the dealmaking enought to stop the bill that day….
But the GOP establishment refused to take the risk or is stucking playing by the old political rules which no longer apply to the Obama gang of ideologues…..
FWIW, I think Obamacare can be stopped but there needs to be a MASSIVE public uprising daily against it and opinion polls will have to reflect about 70-30 against it so the few true potential D wavers will truly get weak kneed…..we aint close to that yet
Wes, if Healthcare were to pass I am afraid it would sow the seeds of a Rebellion. If it passes, many would think Gun Control is next.
Jason, et al,
What makes you think that Obama ever had the training or intention of being an effective president?
He didn’t. Obama has zero executive experience. Don’t judge Obama’s cunning by his performance in a job that he is totally unsuited for and has little interest in.
I’m telling you that for Obama the presidency is not an end but a means to an end.
-Polaris
354 – Lol, that’s how bad it is, we’re wishing for Clinton back. lol
I found myself having a similar conversation with someone the other day..”at least with Hillary she would have been more concerned about re-election.”
363…I wonder if all of those “insiders” who assured the GOP leadership that it was DOA in the senate are related to the insiders who assured us that McCain-Feingold would die in the SCOTUS?
1. There a not enough days left in this year for the Senate to finish this.
2. If it passes, the repubs may not repeal it but they can effectively decapitate it by not funding the crap when they take over the house.
3. Remember, the taxes go first and the goodies follow years later; they can do it by saying the economy cannot take the tax hikes and dare Obama to veto the bill.
Therefore, while the dems are certainly close to the goal and perhaps there are several dem senators who will stick their necks out, it is unlikely that all of these risks will be taken. You could get away with it if unemployment numbers were better but you cannot get away with it in this climate. Remember Regan and catastrophic insurance.
#368 Exactly my point.
-Polaris
When you have to defend any position with the voters, you have already lost.
You win by attacking your opponents’ positions, not by defending yours.
Comment by sam
A rep sent to congress to rep their constituents, had better be ready to defend his actions. We don’t give them a blank check. A moot point anyway, as piglosi always had the votes to pass it. This charade was just to give the blue hogs cover.
If I was Boehner I would have taken all the GOP marbles and boycott the entire proceeding.The same as voting no, without actually doing it.
#369 Dream on. Once a bill that funds and establishes a govt bureaucracy is passed, it exists forever.
-Polaris
I am heaving a health debate with my ally Polaris friends. Do not act like we are foes.
There are many Intelligent GOP House members beside Boehner like Pence. If Pence thought opposing the amendment would have stopped Pelosi they would have done it.
Polaris it quite possible if Stupak failed ,that it still would have passed.
“This is a man on a mission and he will do anything to accomplish it.”
Now this is something I do agree on.
But the cunning and intelligence part escape me. All the mistakes so far cannot just be explained by arrogance. Some of them can, like the Boston burglary fiasco. But most of them have just been bad judgment and a tendency to follow blind ideology rather than the best course of action.
I have no respect for Obama at all. To me he is poseur, a fraud.
But of course I respect his power. He has the Presidency, 60 seats in the Senate, a huge majority of diehard liberals in the House. He has a lot of power and can do a lot of damage. Of this I have no doubt and no illusions.
Darrell, Feingold was not comparable. HC involves Socialism, Tax Hikes, Budget, Debt, abortion etc…
Voting present on Stupak would have been suicidal for GOP
1. I bet Pelosi had enough defectors who would have carried it through had the GOP done that
2. The GOP would have hurt their chances significantly with a bloc of the Republican coalition called the big government socons.
3. I am no socon, but face it, if they dont turn out, the GOP is left crying over beer as Knova put it.
#373 If it passed anyway, then it passed anyway. At least by voting “present” you can say that you didn’t make it easier.
The GOP needed to make the Dems WORK for that bill without allowing ‘deals’ to make passage easier.
Like Wylie said, sometimes I think the GOP doesn’t understand what they are dealing with and are fighting last decade’s (Clinton Era) political wars.
-Polaris
Do some of you go home, scream at your kids and kick the dog? You seem so dark in everything lately, its hard to read this stuff ad nauseum. I cant go through life thinking the worst, at least not all the time. Actions have consequences, and I think we can not lose here. Either the legislation fails or Democrats in office get slaughtered.
I think that a program that does not get funding is worthless, and the new wave of Congress could certainly defund anything passed by extremely thin margins and just let it go unfunded until there is not a veto or potentially even get enough converts to override a veto.
The bureaucracy does not exist until 2013 with this bill. Until then it is pure taxation; therein lies its Achilles heel.
#366 Exactly. Obama’s goal is to effectively turn this country into eurpean style-social democracy and lay the groundwork for a permenant left wing political majority….
He could give a with about his popularity or winning elections in 10 or 12.
He doesnt judge his actions by his political popularity or if “things are getting done”!
He grades himself by how effective the action is in expanding government control and leftist political power! By this measure, he has been VERY effective to date!
Again, people on here need to awaken to the reality of who you are dealing with and he aint’ WJ Clinton or even Hillary!
Polaris you are acting like Obama was elected like Reagan.
1, McCain still won 20 States.
2. an open Seat and a 8 year itch.
3. any Democrat would have won in 2008, and won more states.
Obama is a myth.
Reid Won’t Commit
Reid last week wouldn’t commit to Obama’s timeline. He plans to recess his chamber for three days starting Nov. 11 for a Veterans Day holiday and the week of Nov. 23 for Thanksgiving.
Reid faces additional pressure because just one senator can effectively block legislation through procedural means. His colleagues say he will struggle to find enough votes to even begin a debate that senators say may last as long as six weeks.
“We are far from the end of the debate in the Senate,” said Senator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, on yesterday’s “Face the Nation” program on CBS.
And that’s even before the House and Senate work together on a compromise, a process that would occur after a Senate vote and may take months.
Bloomberg
#376 I fail to see how. This is a game-changer bill that has to be kiled at all costs. Voting “present” on Stupak was the only logical thing to do.
Somethings are more important than a “perfect” pro-life voting record…and those that record them SHOULD have the smarts to recognize a parliamentary vote/procedure when they see one.
At the risk of making some upset here, I do have to agree with Chek that at times a lot of so-con special interest groups don’t seem to be very politically astute at times…and this is such a time.
-Polaris
#373 – It may very well have still passed, I just wanted a monkey wrench thrown in where possible, be in ultimately theater\cover or not, you dam well know they would do it if the roles were reversed.
Good reminder – As much as we grown\bicker at each other we’re all (for the most part) on the same side, always good to keep in mind.
What you guys dont get is that the benefits dont come until beyond 2013. Till then it is imposition of mandates on families and businesses; the dems will not only get killed, this moron will lose his presidency and there will be enormous pressure to kill this bease. The only thing that will pass is minimalist insurance regulation.
The bureaucracy does not exist until 2013 with this bill. pitch
With a GOP pres, it could be repealed with a simple majority, via budget recon. The depenency might not have taken hold at that time.
375…my point wasn’t to compare the two, although they both are bad, HC being worse for sure, but my point was to compare the assurances that were received it would die anyway, so don’t worry about it.
#381 Wrong. I know (better than most because I was the one that analyzed the exit data the next day) that Obama didn’t get anywhere near the mandate that Reagan did.
I don’t think that you fully understand that Obama doesn’t care. Either he’s misreading the mandate he does have (which I think is true as far as it goes) OR (and this is what I mainly think), he sees this as an opportunity to “get things done” and doesn’t care about the political cost. This makes Obama far, far more dangerous than Reagan ever was.
-Polaris
Remember No Child Left Behind; lot of talk and no funding. If unemployment is close to 10%, the congress of 2011 will have people on their sides for refusing to fund this monstrosity. The GOP will run against Cap and Trade and Pelosicare as job killers and that is how they will win.
#385 I think you guys are way too optimistic. I can’t think of a single case where a govt program was enacted and then repealed later. The Dems would have a field day if the GOP tried. “Little Susie is dying of cancer. The evil republican smith wants to take away her healthcare so she dies on the street.” Paid for and approved by I.M.Socialist (D)
It would be a political slaughter.
-Polaris
NoChildLeftBehind is still funded which proves my point.
-Polaris
383 – Kind of what I was alluding too with 339. Forget present, they could have just not voted period, someone mentioned just not evening having any of the gop show up at all saturday, I really liked that idea, hey you wouldn’t include us in any of this why vote on it, have at it d’s own that 220-0 vote.
Polaris, I said that Obama had no mandate,but thanks to 10 million non voting conservatives, he won many Senate Seats.
You know what, I agree the guy is a dangerous zombie and we should treat him and this bill like he has the votes.
But please know that I still have hope for this great country and its people to rise up an make sure their Senators 86 this garbage.
Call me naive.
#391 It’s underfunded to be true, but it is politically impossible for the GOP to get rid of it. Same with Prescription Drug benefits for Medicare, Medicare itself, Dept of Education, shall I go on?
-Polaris
Conversely, there is extreme pessimism here. Little Susie is dying because her father cannot find a job due to Obama and dems taxing her employer, would counter that ad.
If Obama is hell-bent on enacting HC, as everyone claims, he would do it whether Stupak Amendment was done or not.
It is stupid to think that the Stupak Amendment, or lack of it, will stop Obamacare.
Difference between Medicare Part D and this is 1. benefits kicked in pronto and the oldies love their benefits
2. in this bill oldies only see pain and cuts for the first few years and everybody else sees mandates.
I think the GOP needs to buy as many ads in the coming months and just say one thing that is sure to resonate.
GOT SOCIALISM? ARE WE EUROPE?
#383 I think that given the dire consequence for the nation as a whole if ObamaCare gets enacted into law, the GOP leadership SHOULD HAVE taken the gamble and called Nancy’s bluff on Stupak….
To be sure, that would have been a HIGH RISK polical play but we are playing for the HIGHEST STAKES imaginable!
If we simply listen to the “insiders” and play it “safe” or wish for some BS fantasy script about repeal that HASNT EVER HAPPENED IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE PLANET EARTH then we will all be awaiting on placement on the Death Panel list as noted vocal conservatives lol
Starting in about 14, 16, or 18 we will also be cheering many D or liberal R victories as anybody who runs on a true conservative platform will be unviable as a candidate in most areas of the country!
And yes, Catastrophic insurance was repealed and Danny boy got his butt handed to him.
#396 Sam, you may be right, but at least by voting “present”, you force Pelosi into a very dicey situation with a big bloc of Dem votes she was counting on with zero political cover.
That’s why I think the Dems are playing chess while the GOP is playing checkers.
-Polaris
395 – You have a point, and a good one, but one of those will be called out and highlighted as a negative dirty-tricks lies ad by the MSM… which one do you think it will be?
#395 But Nanny government is here to give them all state handouts and to give Daddy a job in the new “Office of CrappyCare Death Panel Happiness”!
“GOT SOCIALISM? ARE WE EUROPE?”
—
Just hire EPH for the one liners. lol
or maybe
SOCIALISM – YES WE CAN!
#398 Acutually their is a 501K grouping running those ads right now on Fox….I can remember the name….its U.S. Citzens something….they got a WWW site too…
401. You may have a point. did the GOP leadership have any idea Stupak was going to do this before the weekend?
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEATH-PANEL
Bureaucrats are people too.
-Polaris
390…it would make DEM ads that said the GOP wants to take away kids lunches look like child’s play.
omg
Obama’s msg on the Berlin Wall is about HIM!
“Few would have foreseen … that a united Germany would be led by a woman from Brandenburg or that their American ally would be led by a man of African descent. But human destiny is what human beings make of it,” Obama said.
#406 I don’t think so. I think this was planned out between Stupak and the RCC.
-Polaris
But then you leave yourself exposed to, why should Little Susie’s dad need a job for her to live? There is the rational and then the emotional. Rational wins when people are stressed and the pocketbook doesn’t have many dollars in it otherwise the emotional does.
There is a reason that Dems don’t want insurance portability, it really negates a gov’t solution. The Dems know that HC in this country is a race. Either the ability to buy insurance becomes more open and portable or it gets federalized.
Go figure this; these guys have 257 congressmen and 60 senators and do not have a bill yet in the Senate. How in hell are they playing chess; if they were chess players, health care would have been law before summer.
What is sad is that many of my GOP friends are more worried that Bears lost to the Cards yesterday, instead of Socialism.
412…they are playing chess in that they want to get this done and still bring back as many kamikazi pilots as possible.
#413 Exactly. Say that the Eviiil Republicans are going to take away little Suzie’s healthcare when she is dying of cancer (which will happen if the GOP tries to repeal Obamacare after it’s passed) and people will rise in anger without examining the issue.
Try to explain it in terms of Suzie’s dad’s jobs….and the audience just fell asleep.
-Polaris
410. Church wants a Public Option.
Polaris we blame the GOP, but the Church gave the Blue Dogs cover.
Paul back campaigning in Iowa this week.
“Few would have foreseen…” Uh except the American public apparently, we just thought that person would be fairly competent, have some experience and actually like his country.
Come to think of it he’s right few would have foreseen him as president.
#413 People like to sit back and enjoy life (while they still can). Don’t assume because people enjoyed a day of football that they aren’t deeply passionate about HC. I was overjoyed that SD spanked Eli yesterday, but I wouldn’t take my brief sidetrack that I am not focused on defeating HC, just something to keep in mind.
One of these so called 2012 Contenders need to get out front on this garbage.
#414 Exactly and unless the GOP recognizes the Kamakazi approach the Dems are using and plan the political counters accordingly, the GOP will look like chumps and ultimately lose.
This is why I am upset about Stupak. With Stupak the GOP was given a golden opportunity to at least try to beat the Dems at their own game, and suffered from a lack of testicular fortitude in the end.
-Polaris
419. true
I got a fundraising letter from Orrin Hatch today–how I got that as a registered Libertarian is beyond me–but anyway the Senate GOP seems to be taking this seriously. They drew distinctions between their vision for the future of healthcare and the Dems’ vision.
Polaris, once Stupak is removed in conference, the Dems will have no cover–assuming this abortion makes it to conference.
Polaris, Stupak might get his in the end. The feminazi’s are pissed and want to strip the amendment
417 – Acroso,
Your boy need to call it quits and appoint an air to his throne, IM him that for me, k thx.
#416 I don’t blame the RCC because the RCC has been totally consistant. The RCC wants us to have single-payer or at least fully socialized healthcare because the RCC DOES view healthcare as a human right.
Thus the RCC providing cover to pass this bill doesn’t suprise me. However, the GOP falling for it does and it should bother you as well.
-Polaris
Hatch better be serious. This is the GOP waterloo
Jodi Rell won’t seek reelection.
acroso, go back to PP.
Folks,
In our haste to find the right solutions, if we inadvertently ask the wrong the question or misidentify the situation then what is the possibility to get the right answer. The situation has been ever present for more than four decades. The situation is to dismantle our way of life.We are in a battle for our very country. Please see it as it really is. This has nothing to do with healthcare. Some of this is similar to ignoring UBL when he declared war on the USA. PC rules do not apply. The enemy is not following conventional tactics. Yah, butting Polaris is not helpful. We are just waking up to what has been going on along. Hopefully we can be fully awake to confront this in time.
Agreed, Jason.
Wes, any chance the MSM wants the right to think its dead, so we lay back and stop the Tea Parties?
Who’s Acroso, Howie?
Great, run for Senate Jodi, crush Dodd.
Conn is worthless anyways. All DEM Reps
#415 Heck yeah, the GOP could not even explain how a bankrupt Ponizi scheme call SSN should have been reformed into a true personal requirement account before bankruptcy…..
And that was even with cedeing the left’s basic premise that people are too stupid to be trusted with keeping their own money to plan for their own retirement…..it was simply tweeking the failed socialist pay-go scheme into something more rational and it was shot down in flames essentially before it ever started….
I wouldn’t put that past them, Jason. Remember, these are the same people who are “unaware” the extremist views of a militant anti-American Muslim who attended the same mosque as two 9/11 hijackers could have been responsible for his murdering 13 soldiers.
I have to say I want Palin’s job. Spend all day playing with my kids, write a 15 minute facebook blurb that sends the White House, kos, Congressional Dems and the legacy media into fits of rage and spin and then go back to playing with my kids laughing my butt off.
Well, Simmons will be the nominee against Dodd, Jason. The rumor around the state is that Rell will run against Lieberman in 2012. That’s not confirmed though.
Don’t forget about making millions of dollars before one copy of your book is ever sold, D.
Senator Hatch is one of the few R who gets the implications of CrappyCare both politically and interms of our individual rights.
Here is a great interview with him speaking out on the threat:
http://wylieecoyote.blogtownhall.com/2009/11/03/senator_hatch_health_bill_goal_is_to_keep_democrats_in_power.thtml
Wes. if Liberman is successful in stopping Obamacare, the I will support him in 2012.
434 – see 417. (trust us it’s who we say it is)
416 Church does NOT want a public option, they do think HC reform is a good thing ( so do I ) but that is not an endorsement of a public option. And they could not be clearer about the Abortion issue.
And here is a direct cut and paste from the Bishops statment which came out on October 30th and went to all 19000 parishes in the US two weeks in a row:
In an extraordinary call to Catholics to prevent health care reform from being derailed by the abortion lobby, the United Sates Conference of Catholic Bishops has sent bulletin inserts to almost 19,000 parishes across the country.
“Health care reform should be about saving lives, not destroying them,” the insert states. It urges readers to contact Senate leaders so they support efforts to “incorporate longstanding policies against abortion funding and in favor of conscience rights” in health reform legislation.
“If these serious concerns are not addressed, the final bill should be opposed,” it adds.
It is good that powerful R’s like grasslee and Hatch are pissed. They know the ropes and can slow this crap down.
#438 I sure it was just a harmless coincidence. (sarc)
Seriously, Obama is spinning overtime to prevent from getting blamed for allowing the first sucessful radical islamic terrorist act on US Soil since 9/11.
-Polaris
#425 There arent too many feminazi who live in the UP of MI!
Wilye, the GOP tried to get part of social secruity privatized in 2005. In yet another moment that made me wonder why the hell i ever voted for the man, GWB failed to explain the benfits of the plan and let the Dems and unions get away with demonizing the very concept to the point Congress never even considered any kind of legislation for it. Is it any wonder I despise Bush after idiotic moments like that?
Gary, I wish the Church showed as much energy opposing Socialism as they did Gay Marriage in Maine and CAl.
“any chance the MSM wants the right to think its dead, so we lay back and stop the Tea Parties?”
Absolutely they want opposition to die down, they are so confident in their position that they sneak in like thieves in the night to pass it as well. This is so great for our country that they pass it at a time as to attract the least possible amount of press coverage. A lot of symbolism behind what happened. Would make a great political thriller if it was fiction instead of non-fiction.
439 – Talk about job satisfaction!
447. with the help of the PC media. Lieberman knows this was terrorism.
The UP–I love the name for its people, yoopers–is a very conservative part of Michigan. It used to be a Dem stronghold but has been voting GOP in most elections over the past decade.
Big d, there is no sneaky Saturday nights in the Seante.
It does not work that way
#450 you are assuming the church is against socialism. Look back at the history about what they support and what they don’t. You can knock the Catholic Church for some things, but they usually always come down on the side of government programs.
Although I’m Catholic, Jason, I have to admit the Catholic Church has a large number of socialists in its ranks.
“The rumor around the state is that Rell will run against Lieberman in 2012.”
—
Any chance Lieberman retires (late) and endorses Rell to stick it in the eye of the D’s?
I don’t know why Lieberman still associates with the Dems. They buck him on every single substantive issue, yet he still bends over and grabs the ankles for them. Hell, they probably plan to support Lamont against him in 2012 again.
#447 – Double Bingo!
That’s a possibility, Knight. I’d be happy to see it. It’s amazing in uberleftwing Connecticut, the most popular politician is a Republican.
450
Jason an entirely different issue but the sanctity of marriage ( it is a sacrament of the church remember ) is well within the consistent teaching of the church.
I personally think the church should weigh in on matter of church doctrine ( marriage and taking human life ) and stay the hell out of everything else. But that is just me, and you clearly want to bash the Church. Just out curiousity are you a CEO?
#449 Yes, I know he tried….
We can debate if W put his best foot forward or was even competent enought to undertake the task….
However, it was so rational a reform that it should have literally sold itself on the merits. However, the fear that goes along with risking the pitance that the government doles out is nearly impossible to overcome and rational thought never enters the equation….
Obama has played his part. He got elected. The danger is with the minions behind him and propping him up. He does not plan to reelected; he plans to be chosen like Chavez. If we can realize the goal, then we can anticipate their moves. We have heavy lifting ahead.
Assuming the R won the presidency I’m sure he could get himself a nice job for a couple years in the incoming administration for the effort. lol
http://www.drudgereport.com
Great link on the Insurers pouring big money against Deathcare
#463 Exactly which is why Social Security is often called the ‘third rail’ of US politics. Touch it and die. If Obamacare is allowed to pass, the same will happen with it.
-Polaris
Great Article from Dick Morris about how CrappyCare violates your basic individual rights thru its mandated insurance scheme:
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/11/09/we-can-win-in-the-senate/
“JAIL FOR NO INSURANCE UNDER PELOSI BILL
The nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation reported that the House version of the health care bill specifies that those who don’t buy health insurance and do not pay the fine of about 2.5% of their income for failing to do so can face a penalty of up to five years in prison!
The bill describes the penalties as follows:
* Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
* Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]
That anyone should face prison for not buying health insurance is simply incredible.
And how much will the stay-out-of-jail insurance cost? The Joint Committee noted that “according to a recent analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest-cost family non-group plan under HR 3862 (the Pelosi bill) would cost $15,000 by 2016.”
Obama’s bill only provides subsidies to help pay this enormous sum after families making about $45,000 have paid 8% of their income for insurance and after those earning a household income of about $65,000 have kicked in 12%.
The Joint Committee on Taxation noted that while the Senate Finance Committee version of the bill did not include criminal penalties, “The House Democrats’ bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.”
Remember that simply buying catastrophic insurance, which may be all the young uninsured family needs, does not constitute having adequate insurance under the Obama bill. It has to be total, all inclusive insurance for one to avoid the penalties in the legislation. That is because Obama wants to use these premiums from the currently uninsured to subsidize his program.
So Ms. Pelosi is requiring Americans to pay these steep premiums, or a fine of 2.5% of their income for not doing so, or, potentially, go to prison!
Anyone who is familiar with the U.S. prison system can attest to the large number of people incarcerated for similar white collar offenses. That the House bill would treat failure to carry health insurance or pay the fine as tax evasion or willful nonpayment is amazing!
And where is the constitutional basis for requiring everyone to buy insurance? It is OK for a state to make drivers pay for automobile insurance. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege, and the state may regulate it by demanding insurance. Banks can require homeowners to buy insurance as a condition of their lending. But how does the federal government get the right to require a family to buy health insurance or face a civil penalty and, failing that, to face either a criminal fine or jail?
The tough penalties in the House bill are designed to keep insurance companies from opposing the bill. It was the relaxation of these penalties in the Senate Finance Committee version of the legislation that led the companies to reverse field and come out in opposition to the legislation. The insurance companies want to see their coffers swell when tens of millions of new customers are required to buy insurance. The more draconian the penalties for failing to pay them large sums of money to pad their bottom lines, the better.
The more you read this bill, the worse it gets.”
Sounds fimilar, eh?
#458 How about Lieberman endorsing Rell and Palin (or pick another Conservative that will cause a mass increase of anti-depressive medication to be dispensed to lefties)in 2012 along with a 60 seat R Senate, ACORN going down in a RICO investigation, the Republican HCR passing and various inner circle administration officials being tried for treason with the Cubs finally winning the World Series?
#464 Just so, but to do that we have to be honest in our appraisal of just how serious the Dems are and to what degree they are willing to do. Some GOP politicos seem stuck fighting the last war (Clinton in the 1990s).
-POlaris
Big D I was starting to think you a rational and thoughtful individual until you got to the Cubs. You are dreaming!
Mike, I think even Obama couldn’t be stupid enough to try to be a lifetime ruler. People would ahve rejected such a thing had even Roosevelt tried it. The only President all Americans would have accepted for life without elections was Washington–and Obama is no Washington.
469 – Hey someone else likes to Dream too. w00t!
#464 You are correct of course but we still have many in the GOP and the conservative media who are in denail over this fact…
Or even if they do recognize this, they are still trying to fight him using covnetional/old skol political tactics….we are a step behind and do not have a true sense of urgency yet as Conservatives….
You gotta believe!
Let’s go Mets!
Between Obama and Clinton, Polaris, I’d love to see Clinton in office right about now. He never had the “grand vision” Obama has of remaking the US into a Marxist utopia.
#472 FDR was a lifetime ruler. FDR played a number of dirty tricks (and violated many US laws to hide is collaberation with Churchill) prior to the 1940 election.
As long as FDR had a pulse, he really was President-For-Life.
This country had a very, very close call with FDR and Obama models himself off of FDR (at least in self image).
-Polaris
“REVEALED BY CBSNEWS TONIGHT: OBAMA’S PLAN FOR AFGHANISTAN; send four combat brigades plus thousands more support troops… close to the 40,000 that McChrystal wanted…”
—
Well that didn’t take long now did it…
Polaris any idea what the percentage of true believers are on the D side?
478. Vietnam the Sequel.
Obama becomes LBJ
#477 Cont. Remember that even Saddam Hussein was ‘reelected’ every 6 years. He was the most popular politician in Iraqi History getting 99% of the vote.
Of course the fate of that 1% doesn’t bear mentioning…..
-Polaris
Paterson: NYS Will Be Broke Before Christmas
CBS
Polaris, Boehner made the right play by sticking to principle. The Dems would have passed the bill anyway. I thought this was a ploy by Democrats, maybe semi-ploy. I wanted that small faction of GOP congressmen to vote present as well in the beginning but thought this would have opened up a can of worms that I couldn’t grasp what all consequences might have been. Stupak just wanted an amendment so he and other pro-life Dems in the House could cover their butt. Now Wasserman-Shulz and 40 other lib congressmen have written a letter stating that they will vote to block the health care bill if the Stupak Amendment isn’t removed from Congress. The GOP retained the pro-life vote, liberal Dems will nuke the final bill if the Stupak amendment remains and put Stupak and the other Dems who voted for the amendment in a very hard position. If they cave, big time HYPOCRITE label goes on them and they get massacred next year. If they hold and vote the final bill down if the amendment is stripped in conference, the bill dies. Then the final bill goes to the Senate where the bill will likely be filabustered for the second time.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/09/house-dem-conference-committee-will-strip-stupak-amendment/
Actually, Polaris, if you look at the 1940 election, Roosevelt would probably have lost had World War II not broken out. The Dems lost a lot of power in the 1938 midterms, and the courtpacking and continued economic malaise undermined Roosevelt’s popularity. It was the shift to a war footing that revived Roosevelt’s political fortunes. Had it not been for that, the concensus is that he would ahve suffered Hoover’s fate.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1109/Despite_ban_Holder_to_speak_to_CAIRlinked_group.html
#479 In Congress? I think about 2/3rds are in the True-Believer catagory as a rough guess. The Dem congress is far,far more liberal than the US electorate (and even more liberal than the electorate was in 2008!)
-Polaris
Phoenix great post mate
Could we possibly have a worse AG than Eric Holder?
Right. The DEM majority leader Robinson died on the eve of the SCOTUS vote. FDR lost 87 House seats in 1938.
That’s true, Polaris.
Janet Reno
2/3 will pass HC damn the consequences? if that really is true, things are much more dire than I imagined, and I have quite the scary imagination.
Are you really sure Reno was worse than Holder, Jason? Tied possibly, but I can’t say worse.
#477 Actually, I think it was pressure from Wilke due to his attack on the failure of the new deal that dragged FDR literally kicking and screaming into running on a prep for war platform in 1940….
Literally, people only voted for FDR based on the looming involvement in the war….
Absent the threat of war, I think Wilke probably takes FDR out in 1940…..
Just theory on my part but Wikle really did effective stop the New Deal in its tracks by questioning its basic premises and results in many areas…
#484 Actually this country overwhelmingly wanted out of the war, and FDR lied to the country about promising to keep out while at the same time promising Churchill that the US would get in as soon as possible AND while providing aid to the UK.
Don’t get me wrong. Fighting Germany was the right thing to do! However, the fact is that FDR committed impeachable offenses in 1940-1 as well as willfully violating US Neutality (to the point where the Swiss claimed that the US was an allied beligerant rather than a true neutral).
Had even a fraction of FDR’s sheninigans got out, he would (and should)have been impeached (let alone losing in 1940).
-Polaris
British spies have foiled a terrorist plot by a suspected al Qaeda operative to blow up the New York subway. – uk telegraph.
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interesting timing of this disclosure no?
btw is not a BCT 4k, x 4 + support doesn’t strike me as “close to 40k”, but I will await details.
One word will cause many Dems not to vote for Obamacare: reelection.
Paterson: NYS is BrokEN.
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fixed.
“Paul back campaigning in Iowa this week.”
My dog threw up last week.
488 – Reno could be close, but I’d even take her right now over him.
#486 the other 1/3 accept the premise that government should intervene and “do something” to help…..they just claim to want it paid for and accept that some private enterprise needs to be kept to pay the tax bill for it all…..essentially, they have the same mindset which simply makes them useful idiots IMHO
Hehe, Knight. For that, you deserve a pic of a beautiful girl. Any requests?
#492 You misread me. I am guessing that 2/3rds of the DEMS in congress are of the liberal “true-believer” type, some more vocal than others. That’s far less than 2/3rds overall.
-Polaris
Nah, surprise me
Wes,
I agree about Washington, but FDR was a different critter without the minions Obama has. If Obama, et.al can pass the reform bill he will have many in the country by a particular body part. He will soon have control of not only the banks, but housing as well. Now if he gets the rest of the economy with health care. All he needs to do is say “got you”. We do not have sufficient numbers of people with a vested interest not to go along. FDR’s time, even during the depression, had a sense of vesting. Not now.
Virtually all Dems in Congress are far left. Even those claiming to be “moderate” and “conservative” almost always walk the plank when the leadership demands it.
Good point, Mike.
She ws just too hot for me to make up my mind, Knight, so I’ll just give you the link for all her pics, and you can decide which you like best:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=leeann+tweeden+hot&gbv=2&aq=3&oq=leeann+&aqi=g1g-s1g6g-s1
#505 That’s a big yes on FDR. In fact Benito Mussolini when looking at FDR’s New Deal (and the National Recovery Administration) flat out declared that “President Rosevelt is one of us” refering to the (then) poliically popular fascist movement.
FDR acted from day one to try to amass as much power as possible including infamously trying to pack the supreme court.
In a way, it was a good thing that FDR did suffer from Polio or else I think this country might never have seen the end of FDR and his sucessors and his policies DID blight this country for fifty years.
I think that the US had an extremely close shave with a one-party system/ruler with FDR and I think the politicians after FDR realized this….which is why the 22nd amendment was passed soon after WWII.
-Polaris
He’s not too old. He’s still running two miles a day.
508 – Now that’s what I’m talking about Wes! (knows poker too)
Polaris has been right on a numbe of topics this evening (I’ve just finished reading the thread)
1. Despite his missteps this is a President that is going to be very very difficult to defeat in ‘12. His race, the media, machine and unlimited funds combined with a weak GOP bench all work against his defeat. He realizes this and therefore is willing to overreach with the realization that he can with little political cost. His strategy is to force as much as he can, get as much as he can passed and entrench the democrats as the sole party of power based on constituent dependency.
2. Harry Reid will most definitely use the budget to get this through if he doesn’t have the votes. This has already been confirmed to me by multiple sources. Very solid sources. The only hope is to continue to pressure the vulnerable Sens so that they side with the GOP in exposing this publicly, embarrassing Reid enough to pull back.
With regards to Boehner, the vote present strategy was discussed quite extensively, and if there had Ben any chance that this would have worked they would have used it. Instead voting for the amendment has created derision within the dem camp, and can be of better long term use.
You know, for a President who campaigned on “hope, change, and optimism,” Obama has really inspired fear in a large swathe of Americans.
“U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.”
Yep just what every guy who is about to “blow a gasket” and just “happens to be a Muslim” does….contacts al Quaeda.
510 – Irreverent to his electability nationwide, seriously you need to get off that train, he needs to pass the torch to a more electable version of himself.
Great post, Vic!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/42443.html
Second gunmen in custody in Fort Hood?
So much for the lone wolf victim meme, Jason.
513 – fear, no spare change, and pessimism! Yes they did.
Can someone get rid of this invalid clown?
I think Obama is definitely beatable. The census shifts will favor the GOP and there is a very likely roadmap to get the GOP candidate to 270 that is absolutely doable in this political environment.
Acroso have you completed your mission of destruction at PP yet?
My sister said it best recently when I made fun of her for voting for Obama: If I’d known the change he was talking about was just what I could dig out of my pockets, I’d have voted another way.
No, Obama is the president that espouses HOPE and CHANGE on many levels.
Level 1: He has made me HOPE that he will allow CHANGE…the sooner the better!
Level 2: I HOPE that before he’s done, I will have some CHANGE!
-Polaris
I like that, Polaris.
“Acroso have you completed your mission of destruction at PP yet?”
Well most everyone left are Paul supporters or voting third party.
“Mission accomplished” as Scrub would say.
haha I said Irreverent, lol I meant irrelevant. lol
#523 Who did you sister think she was voting for? What Obama really stood for and what he was really like was blindingly obvious if you took the time to read his books and LISTEN to what he actually said.
-Polaris
“Harry Reid will most definitely use the budget to get this through if he doesn’t have the votes. This has already been confirmed to me by multiple sources. Very solid sources.”
My sources say Harry Reid fathered Rielle Hunter’s baby. Very solid sources.
526 – So you should be right at home, why are you here? Is this your next target of destruction?
#512 HC reform battle right now is all about the balance of FEAR!
Do those few vunerable D Senators fear the Obama/Reid/Pelosi gang more then the American Public…..
Right now, at only 55-42 against HC scam, not enough of them are afraid….
The outcry by the public needs to be much loader and more vocal to derail this train….only something like 70-30 against will truly make them fearful….that is why people like Dick Morris are trying to target the young voters now with the Mandated Insurance costs/penaltites as the middle aged/SR oppositon are maxed out now….a new demographic has to be targeted to move this lower in the polls!
My sister’s a lefty pothead who got degrees in psychiatry and social work, Polaris. That should tell you everything you need to know, although I’m slowly bringing her into the Libertarian fold.
Great link on the Insurers pouring big money against Deathcare
Comment by Jason T
They initially supported it for the individual mandate,(captive customers) , but when they read the fine print and saw their own testes on the anvil, the changed horses quickly enough. Of course when john Q public hears this, they will then think it a good deal to have, so they can bash the evil ins co’s.
“526 – So you should be right at home, why are you here? Is this your next target of destruction?”
You give me too much credit. Most of the people there hated McCain anyway.
Off topic – A sign of the changing times – USAA is now opening its membership to all people who have been honorably discharged from the military. It is SO hard to get a dishonorable discharge. Look for this company to go down hill. After McDermott left the helm, the company has increased its membership to people who don’t fit their original profile (officiers and dependents).
“Well most everyone left are Paul supporters or voting third party.”
Sounds like a winning group all right. Last one out turn off the lights.
New York disaster:
But Senate Democrats, with their tenuous 32-30 hold on the upper house, are terrified to make school and hospital cuts because, they said, the cuts could mean increases in local property taxes.
And that could mean suburban Democrats on Long Island, in Westchester and other parts of the state could have trouble getting re-elected next year.
Remember, high property taxes led to the ouster of many suburban Democrats last week, including Westchester County Executive Andy Spano. Nassau County Executive Tom Suozzi could also lose once absentee ballots are counted.
CBS
Invalid, you fit in better with Obamahomoleaf and the other three–I mean, two–loons at polipundit than here.
KH,
Didn’t McCrystal want 80,000?
Obama leaning toward 34,000 more troops for Afghanistan
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/78516.html?storylink=MI_emailed
534 – You are correct that I give you too much credit, but wasn’t really the point.
Good point, Howie. I expect the NY State Senate to flip back to the GOP next year.
Only reason I came here was because Chekote was posting here so I wanted to harass her about Guiliani (or Mitt Romney since she hates him.)
In-valid, Chekote’s not here right now, so go take your tripe back to that loony toon site no one ever visits anymore.
Not to worry. Chek gets plenty enough harassment as it is.
-Polaris
#521
Beatable, possibly, but only in a perfect storm. Do not for one moment underestimate the roles that
A. Race
B. Money
C. Media
are going to play in 2012. We fortunately have an opening because he has overreached beyond what even the most Liberal of my friends thought (They are in heaven btw with him and his progressive agenda and want him to go further)
As usual its going to come down to
FL
VA
OH
We also have a problem in our bench. At the moment its extremely weak. That will factor into 2012 as well.
I hope Im wrong, I really do.
Wildcard…affect a 2010 GOP capture of the House will have on moderating his agenda, thereby making him all the more re-electable.
#523 Wes, have your sister read this:
http://andrews.blogtownhall.com/2008/02/22/the_candidate_as_inkblot.thtml
She shouldnt feel too bad, millions of others made the same mistake as Obama’s ploy was to talk in such platitudes that the listen essentially felt as if Obama was agree with exactly how they felt.
In fact, Obama was saying nothing at all….
Yes, Polaris was right that the signs were out there if you were open minded and chose to listen/think. However, that would have requried you setting aside the utopian vision in your head that said Obama was agree with everything you think…..
I don’t see Obama moderating at all, Vic, regardless of who controls the House after 2010.
#539 He asked for 40K so essentially Obama is giving him what he needs….McCrystal probably asked for a bit more then needed as a going in position….
#531— very true, and the only way we keep Reid from using the budget is public awareness.
So in other words Obama was a rorschach test, Wilye. Good analogy.
New thread, guys.
Vic,
I don’t disagree with you in the main, but I think the battlefields will be different.
Obama had a perfect storm in 2008 and still ONLY carried Florida by two percentage points while winning nationwide by seven. The story in VA is similiar.
Given what we’re seeing so far and given his overreach and likely national mood, there is no way that Obama carries Florida and likely doesn’t take VA either. OH will remain a battlground. Also there is no way that Obama takes IN and NC since he barely squeeked those states out at the height of his popularity.
However, CO, NV, NM will all be part of the new battlefield along with the traditioal OH, MO, etc.
-Polaris
#550 Yep, it was all about saying nothing and getting you thinking that you were getting everything you wanted from him…..
Hense you even got supposed conservatives like D. Brooks etc saying that he “wouldnt be so bad”….many are still in denial today as we are seeing in this so-called HC debate….
539 – Probably in an ideal world, but I believe the request was for ~40 combat effective troops, so realistically the number of people shipping out would be much higher. I don’t know it it puts it at 80k, that would be ~1:1, sounds a little high but possible I guess. Sounds like he’s getting ~ 1/2 of his request, and he’s getting them a least a month late, as from the article sounds like the first brigade will not arrive till March, right about when the customary spring offensives from the Taliban start heating up.
Wes
The problem is perception. the GOP will block his attempt to continue to push America further left, thereby allowing the media to paint him as a moderate. An image that will be difficult to overcome.
Why have our past two Presidents both been incredibly inept at managing wars?
FL, VA, OH I don’t see Obama winning any of them unless there is a miracle in the economy. He doesn’t have hope and change this time around. Its one thing voting for a cause, its another voting for the status quo. Sure he has the young still supporting him, but considering he hasn’t delivered on anything they wanted, will they show up.
The question is will the GOP kill themselves before 2012?
The pain induced by this program is huge in the first three years . This is the reason it will fail in the senate. You guys are quite a pessimistic bunch; while it touches us all directly, it hits my pocket book. I am not packing it in yet.
That’s true, Vic, except for the fact that Obama will still have a record he has to try to defend.
Obama has gone all-in on the abortion issue with the feminists. Voting with Stupak may not have been such a bad idea after all now that we’ve drawn out the President. I would have just kept quiet if I were Obama but he’s gone forward to oppose this fiscally conservative measure.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/
OBAMA VS. STUPAK — In an interview with ABC News Monday, President Obama objected to language in the just-passed House health care bill that would strictly limit the purchasing of insurance policies that cover abortion.
Telling ABC that “this is a health care bill, not an abortion bill,” the president said the bill should be revised so that “we’re not changing the status quo.”
“I want to make sure that the provision that emerges meets that test,” he said, “that we are not in some way sneaking in funding for abortions, but, on the other hand, that we’re not restricting women’s insurance choices.”
Polaris
you are 100% right. I believe FL will flip back, especially due to the fact that seniors are becoming very aware of what HC means to them. NC and IN will without a doubt flip back.
OH is still going to be difficult. Especially if a GOP congress sidetracks many of his policy initiatives. I can also see CO coming back, NV (if unemployement stays very high) is another battleground. I think NM might be gone. The population there has skewed way far left lately, but we will see.
Polaris what does IN, NC, VA, FL and OH get us with the new projected census math? Do we need one more state?
Thanks, Pitch.
Vic, NM didn’t start skewing sharply left till last year. I’d say it’s potentially returnable–especially if latinos start feeling a vote for Obama and the Dems is a vote against their economic interests.
“will they show up.”
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Plus 1/2 of those young, will have finally “graduated” and been out in this job market trying to find jobs. Not sure they are going to be quite as enthused, then again maybe Bambi will promise them all great government jobs to make the sale.
If my math is correct then FL, VA, NC, IN, NE(+1) and OH will put us at 268( w/ projected numbers). 2012 is not that far fetched for the GOP.
556 – Will not acknowledge the enemy – political correctness.
Vic,
I agree we need to wake-up and be aware. In conducting critical thinking test, there are four components within the test: deductive reasoning,inductive reasoning and two other variable. One is to be able to distinguish between fact or opinion. The second is to discern the creditability of source of the information. Currently, only 38% of professionals can pass the test most commonly because of the last two variables. Yes, we need to be more aware but what are we using as facts?
#565 that and pay for their college…..he has a program that anyone who takes a government job gets their student loans written off by the taxpayer paying them off
If the GOP wins in 2012, it will be by a landslide. Incumbent Presidents are never rejected by small margins, Grover Cleveland being the exception.
Big D, don’t forget the northern states probably lose 2-3 EV’s after 2010, assuming the census isn’t rigged.
From NRO:
“Enemies of the People [Benjamin Zycher]
It’s official. The Joint Tax Committee informs us that under the terms of the Pelosi health-care bill, “Americans who do not maintain acceptable health insurance coverage and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.”
And so we have, yet again, a perfect illustration of the truism that socialism would work perfectly if only there were no people. Since we do have people, with all their self-interested motives and unwillingness to bend their inherent nature to ideological demands, socialism in practice encounters problems, known as Enemies of the People.
No wonder Pelosi et al. want desperately to jam this legislation through the House before lawmakers go home for the Veterans Day break and encounter Tea Parties more numerous and louder than before. How has American self-government come to this?”
MikeP
Interesting you should bring that up “What are we using as fact” Unfortunately in today’s 15second clip world people dont always want to hear facts. Its the biggest reason why Obama was elected. No one really cared to delve deeply into his past, his potential policies, his inexperience. Instead they went with the flash, the pizzazz and now we have the “shout out” President.
So the challenge is reducing the facts behind what HC reform will really do to the country into the soundbites that will be attractive to our “audience”. Those who are already politically aware have already made up their minds one way or another regarding HC, how do we frame it for those on the fence or who are totally unaware.
This has been a banner day for fine posting by the hedgehoggers.
I can see several states flipping back RED in 2010 & 2012.
BHO had been exposed for who he really is…has lost what independent support he had…conservatives will come out in droves and work hard for a candidate that is fiscally conservative and pro life…BHO loses IN, FL, VA, NC, IA, NV, OH, NH, and CO.
I am hearing predictions from all sorts of politicos and radio hosts here in Indiana that BHO has gone to far to the left and any attempt to move back to the middle will not fool those in the middle. My pick for 2012 is Mike Pence.
Va and Iowa will still be very tough in 2012.
VA maybe, IA for sure, I frankly don’t see that flipping back, might at least swing back to a battleground though.
VicC has 2012 cold.