CA:Whitman Surges Into Tie With Brown
Scott Rasmussen is out with a new poll this morning that shows Republican Meg Whitman has surged into a tie with Democrat Jerry Brown to see who will become the next Governor of California.
GOVERNOR – CALIFORNIA (Rasmussen)
Jerry Brown (D) 41%
Meg Whitman (R) 41%Jerry Brown (D) 43%
Steve Poizner (R) 32%Jerry Brown (D) 42%
Tom Campbell (R) 33%
Not even two months ago, Brown was ahead of Whitman by 9%. This poll was done November 17th among 500 likely voters.
first
This is big.
thats what she said
Howdy, folks.
Dems must be panicking about 2010 at this point.
GULP!
If Moonbeam’s losing steam this early, then that could be the sign of a domino effect.
thats what she said
Comment by GPO —
It ain’t the size of the army, but the ferocity of the attack.
Worse than panic
When will the KSM trial be?
That’ll make things even worse
From what I’ve heard, MFG, KSM’s unlikely to go on trial before 2012.
I wish we could get Poizner and Campbell to run in other races. Two good men.
Wes ,makes sense. A jury giving one of those scum a hung jury would destroy Obama’s Presidency.
Now if the Ras shows the results I think he’ll show in the Pataki/bimbette race later today, then the Dems must be praying to God for a miracle.
2012?!
Sheesh
That’s not definite, MFG. It’s just what I’ve heard as a tentative start date for trial on the news outlets. Take it for what it’s worth.
Wes,
Are you sure that RAS is polling the NY senate race?
I just think CA will wake up and not see its Future as Jerry Brown for 8 more years.
I might add as a bit of good news that the unemployment rate in Michigan has dropped to 15.1%. I think CA may even avoid 14% unemployment rate in 2010. Whether this will help Brown is another matter
Read the bottom of this page, Marv:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/new_york/election_2010_new_york_governor_election
Seriously folks, these California numbers are remarkable. The entire Democratic control panel is flashing red. Another state where indies are running away from Democrats as fast as they can. Indies in every state are massively deserting Dems – red states, swing states, blue states – it doesn’t matter.
Remember that exit polls in 2006 when Dems won control of congress went for Dems by 57-39.
Republicans highly motivated plus indies going our way by 17 = bloodbath.
The Ras could be lying, but I tend to doubt it.
Maybe we’re peaking too soon, Phil…???
Wes,
OK, got it. Thanks
That’s always a possibility, MFG, but it would be against the hostorical trend for such a thing to happen. Generally when a party starts flagging as the Dems have a year out from an election, the next year’s results are far from pretty.
Besides, what exactly have the Dems done or are the Dems doing that would reverse the tide?
#21
Nope. It’s only going to get worse under Obumbler as he continues to track further left. He can’t help himself.
Hostorical=historical. I seriously need a spell check.
I apologize to every one here for stating that Ben Nelson was a good man and would vote against Cloture.
He is a liberal weasel, and as bad as Al Franken
#19 Phil
“The entire Democratic control panel is flashing red.”
Sounds as if you might have been in the U.S. Navy and served aboard a submarine.
Nexavar is approved in the US and I use it in my patients with melanoma, liver cancerandkidney cancer.
Yes, those of us doctors who are over 50 and have saved some money will retire rather than deal with this Crappycare.
Wes, it seem like the GOP did not really tank hard until the Spring of 2006. Probably wrong. They held the CAL seat with Bilbray in June 2006?
Kiss that Senate seat goodbye in 2012, Ben. Once Nelson goes down, the Dems have no legitimate officeholders left in the state. It will be a long time before they win a Senate race there again.
I prefer the Al Frankens to the Ben Nelsons; atleast, what you see is what you get. Even if I do not agree with their politics, I admire their courage of conviction.
Wes, i was stunned last night when he did a 360 on cloture.
I am hoping the Governor of NEB would call him out
Whitman is a RINO.
#33 Felix
A 360 on cloture by Nelson would be a good thing.
Obama to troops -
“You guys make a pretty good photo op”
Geeeez
Pitch, Nelson has to pretend not to be a socialist, or he’d be political dead meat in Nebraska. His 180 will not play well back home though. Were I Cornyn, I’d be on the phone now with a well-funded statewide officeholder in Nebraska to gear up for a race in 2012.
This is where the GOP really lets me down. Here we are on the eve of a historic Socialist Vote, and where is the Governor of ND, Neb etc… Calling these Moderate Dems out for supporting cloture?
Make it public
So Nelson will vote for cloture? Or only to proceed to consider?
Marv, Nelson said publicly after the House vote that he would stop debate in the Senate.
Is Blanche Lincoln still on the fence???
Governmental majority in the US is controlled by the indies; they tend to lean center right. They havae been pissed off with the big government repubs and are coming back after a good dose of shock therapy from the democrats. The crap the dems are putting the country through willbe a lesson to those conservatives who sat out the last two elections. Elections have consequences and almost always the lesser of the two evils is a better choice. Strive for the ideal, but dont let good be the enemy of the best.
Aw contraire, Obama is going to focus like a laser on the economy starting in January. That will change things, maybe another round of cash for clunkers. Or maybe some stimulus to nonexistent Cong Districts. And amnesty for aliens will create jobs, wont it?
He would have focused on the jobs sooner, but there was the Olympics and his wife wanted to go see a play in NY and …
Would any electorally viable Republican in Cali not be a RINO, Chek? Hell, the socons are out in force for Carly Fiorina’s primary opponent even though DeVore would have exactly as much chance of beating Boxer as I would while Fiorina at least has a shot.
I have predicted that Republicans will pick up net 13+ governorships in the 2009-10 cycle. (2 down, 11+ to go.)
I was counting CA as a loss to the Reps, maybe I’ll have to revise that.
Also, if the Dems lose the Gov’s race, it will have repurcussions on the CA senate seat too.
Mfg, Cloture to start debate. Which gives Reid another step towards mmaking deals before the end of the year.
Nelson will vote to bring it to the floor and has used some stupid football analogy to justify his position. I wish they run ads in Nebraska outlining his position.
Blanche Lincoln still a hold out on proceeding to consider apparently
Felix, you’re giving them cover by calling them moderates. They’re liars who have to mask their big government-loving tendencies to win election where they are. The GOP has let them have a pass on it for far too long. Wll, it’s time to call them on it. This country’s future is too important to let Nelson, Lincoln, et al pretend to be soemthing they’re not from here on out.
Proceeding to the debate, hell, whatever the terminology is
If Healthcare passes it will destroy the economy anyways. You give Obama too much credit.
Even though it would not start until 2013, the taxes and fees would start Pronto.
That’s it Wes
And they get away with it over and over
Infuriating
Nelson says he still wants to read the bill before he decides to bring the bill up for a vote. I suspect he will vote to start the debate. All 60 dems might unless someone is sick or out of town??
This is not unexpected unless Lieberman holds firm. Lieberman-Nelson and others will not vote cloture on this bill when it voting time. Its a slice and dice but that why elections matter.
A vote for cloture=a vote for Obamacare. The GOP needs to run ads educating the voters back home on this issue.
48. Wes I agree. If Lincoln votes for Cloture Saturday, she is toast. Huckabbe said that last night.
If Lieberman votes no on Saturday and no republicans defect, it is over.
Apparently Landrieu is also holding out
#40 Felix,
I was making a friendly jab at your use of “360″. I think you meant “180″. A “360″ degree turn would put him back on his original course toward a No vote on cloture, which would be a good thing.
I haven’t heard anything new on Lincoln’s vote. Anyone else?
Rdel, Demint says voting for Cloture Saturday means this crap will pass.
The GOP needs ot play hardball on this. It’s not as if they don’t have enough Dem Senators to target to keep this travesty from coming to the Senate floor.
we cannot trust Liberman either. We trusted Nelson, he is a weasel
Trust no one on this.
AOL to Cut 2,300 Workers in Planned Break From Time Warner
Thursday, November 19, 2009
right wes. Where is the outrage from GOP leadership. the only sure way to kill this bill is for no debate at all.
Where is the pressure on Lincoln, North Dakota boys. Where the hell is hoeven
Hoeven could kill HC with one phone call to Dorgan’s Chief of Staff. If dorgan votes for cloture I am running against him in 2010
Eleven Dem Senators represent states carried by McCain. The NRSC needs to target them before this vote so they know what they face should they defy their constituents’ wishes.
Well, I email Landrieu every day
Perhaps a total waste of time, but who knows
Shame she was just reelected
If she were up in ‘10 she’d never vote for this
There’s already pressure on Lincoln, Felix. She’s basically tied with four guys no one’s ever heard of. Hoeven may be waiting to see what Dorgan does before putting any pressure on. I guarantee he jumps in if Dorgan votes for cloture.
Am I incorrect in stating that there is no way in hell Nelson would be doing this unless he knew all other D’s are on board as well?
How can we be certain that Nelson will vote to proceed?
Then maybe Bobby Jindal needs to give Landrieu an unsubtle call letting her know either he or Cassidy will be challenging her in 2014 and using votes like this against her should she vote for this, MFG.
Mfg, Wes thanks. I am so frustrated that we here see what needs to be done to stop cloture, but it seems like GOP leadership has no clue. Do they not realize that this is Normandy Beach or Waterloo?
This guys twitter deed is interesting as hell:
http://twitter.com/JimPethokoukis
His blog is interesting too
13…DEMS praying to God? Now I have heard everything!
#58 DeMint is exactly correct. A vote to open debate is another step in the process that makes passage of some form of CrappyCare much more likely. Nelson, Bayh, and Liberman will vote to open debat. Looks like Lincoln and Landreiu are the only nominal “fense sitters” who may not vote to open debate (I say nominal because they are simply trying to find a way to get away with passing this turd just like the house scum dogs).
Today is the day to flood Landeriu’s and Lincoln’s office with emails, calls, and faxes letting them know that a vote for cloture on opening debate is a vote for CrappyCare!
Marv, Nelson told ABC news he wvote for debate, so he could ammend the bill and make it better. Other words, he is a liberal patsy for Reid.
I have to say that the GOP Leadership is so inept and inefficient, sometimes they don’t deserve the votes they get.
Why aren’t they running ad’s against the centrist dems?
There’s no pressure on Blanche, Nelson, Landrieu, Bayh. The left is mounting pressure on Lieberman!! But nothing on Dorgan, Tester, Webb, And the afore mentioned senators.
It’s like they are just sitting and always hoping the energy on the right will who elections.
Candidate recruitment against these senators even if it means just to scare them i is ineffective!
Comparatively, Lieberman already has about 4 democratic challengers waiting on the sidelines.
Stupak amendment stripped out of Reid’s bill?
#68 Reid was quoted on Fox news as saying he was “very confident” he had the votes needed to open debate FWIW
Wylie it is all about Lincoln. She is up in 2010.
We need Huckabee to get off his fat butt and threaten her. Say he will run for Senate if she votes cloture.
Bayh is a punk. Wylie what about Dorgan?
#77 Yes of course it was lol
77. Howard thank the Church for that. Vatican socialists
#79 Dorgan is voting to open debate. He is not even being discussed as a “fense sitter” right now. Absent a challenge from Hovernen, I dont think he or the other scumdog D from ND (Conrad) are the least worried about any political penalty for supporting CrappyCare.
Jack I agree. The GOP is a bunch of Country Club Pussies. Demint and Coburn are the only real heroes.
Webb, dorgan, tester all get passes
Tim Johnson?
How the hell can the GOP win back the Senate someday, if they cannot even pressure Red state Dems?
I think that’s his plan Wes, two successful terms as Gov, beat Landrieu in ‘14 then run for Pres in ‘16
what does Intrade know? They only have this crap at 3% to pass.
#60 I didnt trust anyone from the get go on this lol
This is too big a power grab for the left to give up on – period. They will go to the ends of hell to get this passed – take it to the bank!
Snowe will not back the motion to proceed. It’s all on the Dems now, Landrieu “neutral.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/68541-reid-rolling-out-big-guns-to-get-to-60
3% in 2009
Look at the additional 2010 HellCare contracts
Wylie the whole plan is to get Debate cloture, then somehow the Dems will find a way to make it only a majority vote to pass. Then 10 Dem Moderates like Nelson can vote no.
Blue Lying Bastards
#86 I am pissed about finding out that its illegal for a U.S. Citizen to buy on Intrade. At 3%, I was going to invest 10000 buck on CrappyCare to pass – I could made out big time.
Help me with the math, how much can I make at 3%?
Some of you need to get a grip. There is no pressure on Democrat Senators in Red states? Did any of you see the fistful of pinkslips that Sen Demint was flashing around? A group is sending small slips of paper, very pink in color warning Senators not to vote for this or risk losing their seat. There is lots of pressure, and if they start debating it will ratchet up about 4 or 5 times.
The Senate does almost nothing ( by our founders design ) in a hurry. There is going to be massive pressure to strip most of the nonsense out of the bill and declare a compromise.
20% in June? Still low
There are layers upon layers on this saturday’s vote to proceed to debate.
1. Let’s face facts a no vote on debating this bill would not kill it. Reid would merely have to remove the public option and he would get approval from Snowe-perhaps Collins plus all the democrats to proceed to debate. Once debate has started he could even float some sort of opt out or opt in or trigger option that might get 60 votes on the bill.
2. Then reid would hope to either roll the conference or roll the house or roll the senate.
Reid can get approval to proceed to debate. Its under what terms that are important. Ditch the public option and agree to GOP being able to offer amendments.
Right now Reid is trying to proceed to debate with no pre-conditions.
#88 Neutral my fanny lol
She is looking for a way to weasel into supporting CrappyCare….
I hope everyone in the LA and the rest of the country will at least be giving her an earful in the next couple of days!
Contracts range from 0 (an event failed to happen) to 100 (an event did happen)
Minus commissions a $10,000 contract would go to $333,333
However this event would have to get DONE before the end of 2009
That’s why it’s at 3!
You buy at $3, if it passes by christmas with a public option you get $100 on each contract, $97 profit
83…Inhofe is the real deal too.
MFG, if HC does not pass in 2009, it is dead.
I still think this fails, Felix
Too many moving parts, unemployment still going up, Communists polling still deteriorating…
Probably posted before, but I loved this zinger….
GRAHAM, (R-S.C): Can you give me a case in United States history where a enemy combatant caught on a battlefield was tried in civilian court?
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don’t know. I’d have to look at that. I think that, you know, the determination I’ve made –
GRAHAM: We’re making history here, Mr. Attorney General. I’ll answer it for you. The answer is no.
That’s my hope, Felix
Stall, stall, stall, stall, stall
It’ll only get worse for the Communists the more time that passes
Rdel, Reid has to have the Public Option. The left Demands it. Lieberman says no trigger, same with Nelson and Collins.
That leaves 59. no deal
#93 Gary, with all due respect, I have heard this “its DOA” logic time after time – and the polls keep sinking on it too.
Yet, in zombie like fashion, this keeps moving along.
Pressure is also immense on those RedStaters from within their party, the WH, and other leftist activist groups too.
Evidently, the pressure against this is not enough for them to firmly say no to this.
There is no “compromise” on CrappyCare. A bill without a “public option” is still a takeover in every possible way. It needes to be killed.
I would say that people need to rightly be very very worried about where this is headed and act with that kind of urgency.
MFG, every day that passes, makes the bill Dead.
#101
Actually, Graham has been fantastic on this KSM matter. But he is a RINO, you know.
MFG, the only way to kill it for sure is to stop debate Saturday. It will destroy Reid’s momentum.
#97 So lets say I spend 9000 dollars, I get 3000 shares. It passes so they are worth 100 so thats 300K bucks?
I am following this correctly?
#107 Thats what I say, kill it now while there is a chance too.
WEC, for each contract you buy you will make 97 cents if it passes.
#96 what about without a public option? I still say thats the “compromise” HC takeover that will pass by Xmas
California might be a blue state but there certainly is a dearth of quality politicians on the Democratic side….Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Jerry Brown, Villaraigosa, etc. that’s their team…
#110 $97 bucks a share – that is alot of windfall profits for me!
Did I say DOA? Read my post.
Debate will point out some of the more egregious overreaching provisions. I dont fear debate, Harry Reid will not pass what he unveiled today.
Will something pass. Absolutely 100%, the Democrats have to have something. What will it contain? I aint that good, but it almost does not matter at this point, the Democrats have put the gun to their own head and pulled the trigger, even if they vote it all down, folks will say ” that was too close” and ” we need divided government” and it will happen in 2010, and votes to repeal this stuff will happen, and even the Democrats left standing will jump onboard and vote against it.
Watch.
108. You are correct, the odds are approximately 33-1…
If after all this posturing, Lieberman votes yes on saturday, I guess he is indeed Loserman. Nothing will pass this year as even if it makes it to the floor, there will be numerous amendments to play out. That is why I will not buy the dirt cheap contracts.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/19/quinnipiac-obamacare-opposed-51-35/
I think the Dems dragged their feets to see the results of the 2009 elections. If the GOP had gone 3 for 3, I think there would have been more resistence in the House. But the Dem pulled off a victory in NY 23 and that was enough for Pelosi to say that voting for HC reform is not the end of the world. At that point, the Dems made the calculation that it is better to pass HC and appease their base than not to pass it. The indies now oppose HC but if the economy improves, then can be convinced to vote for the Dems. Especially since the GOP has not improved in the eyes of said voters. So I expect for the so called Dem moderates in the Senate to vote for cloture and the bill will pass.
Wylie, I pray that the GOP Senate leadership is discussing the very topics that we have brought up here this morning.
If they cannot pressure a Deep Red state DEM incumbent who is up in 2010 to vote against cloture on a Socialist bill, then they will never get power back.
“Rdel, Reid has to have the Public Option. The left Demands it. Lieberman says no trigger, same with Nelson and Collins.
That leaves 59. no deal”
I am still not clear that if Reid can get the bill to the floor does he still need 60 votes for the votes later or just 51?
chekote spoken like a true RINO.
WEC
It’s a bit more complicated, there’s a bid and an asked price and commissions, but yes 33-1
Bear in mind it would have to be COMPLETED before 12/31/2009 that’s why the contract is at 3!
If it doesn’t happen (and it won’t!) your contract expires at 0 and your money is GONE
Yes, stiil needs 60 on final vote, but if he gets to debate it, it will be another step on the path.
#94 That makes alot of sense. Thats why I see this thing proceeding abset a louder public outcry that is just not there right now. The polls showing stuff like 51-35 against are encouraging but not enough. It has to be like 70/30 against I think.
Just send me 1/2 of the money you are going to flush down the toilet at Intrade, and think of it as saving 50%!!!
Yes Jason, evenif Reid gets the debate to open; after the amendments are done, he needs 60 votes to cut off debate. And at that point, if there is a public option, he stands to lose 4 or 5 in his party. Given the recent behaviour of these dems, the only one you could be reasonably sure of voting no at that point is Lieberman. Thatis why, it is better to put a fork in this beast on Saturday.
#122 Yeah, maybe I should be a bit more cautious and just go in for 1000. I can make about $30K which is a nice xmas present.
Problem is, I want the CrappyCare without a public option – that is one I think that will ultimately pass.
Yes, I still do think it will be before Xmas – if it doesnt then it gets very likely as not happening at all….which is a nice XMAS present too!
chekote spoken like a true RINO.
Proud to be a RINO.
“Actually, Graham has been fantastic on this KSM matter. But he is a RINO, you know.”
I quoted a RINO? Washing my keyboard with soap now….
#125 Gary my pessimism about CrappyCare passage is as strong as your optimism about stopping it lol
Plus you dont pay out at 33-1 right now lol
WEC, Crappycare will not pass before Christmas. And if there is a public option, it cannot pass short of reconciliation.(unless Lieberman gets terminal coldfeet)
Quinn poll
Obamacare opposed 35/51
Independents oppose it 29-57
These are registered voters
I will absolutely save you half your money, if you are betting on something passing by 12/31. Not going to happen. The Senate cant get out of its own way on this in that time, and the Republicans have not even invoked the procedural rules they could to gum up the gears, but they will if forced on this one.
#127
Dude, I’d rather see you SELL that contract than BUY it
And it’s ILLEGAL
Every day more crap will leak out about this bill. Anyone think these Quinn numbers get better? Nope. It’s drip drip drip as the bill gets more and more light shined on it. The numbers will get worse.
1st let me say that I am sorry. I was wrong. Last night I assumed Redcare started in 2013 like Obamacare or Pelosicare. Reid slipped into his bill a delay of Reid care to 2014. So we have 10 years of taxes but only 6 years of Reidcare on this 10 year CBO analysis. See this why its good to read bills.
Now as to killing Reidcare.
1st you delay. If Lieberman or Lincoln or Nelson postpones debate that will be great. Maybe we can ditch Public option before the bill is even up for debate. The house will not pass this turkey without a public option.
2nd the GOP stalls until we get an agreement on amendments
3rd-you start making the democrats vote on nasty amendments
a. Stupak
b. Illegal immigrants
c. criminal penalties for not buying insurance (will 51 senators actually vote to make this a crime?)
d. make the senators vote yes or no on every tax
e. Make every senator vote yes or no on every medicare cut
4th at this point I think Reid care is done because without the funding this bill is not deficit neutral
Wylie I think your pessimism is well grounded, I don’t see the Democrats coming up empty handed on this, they have to pass something even if they get disowned by Kos and Moveon, and anything they do pass will be a disaster.
But I don’t think they will get the bill through by Xmas and the Intrade odds are probably a correct assessment. Remember Intrade does not set the odds like a bookie based on insider or expert opinion, they are a mere reflection of investor sentiment on a given moment.
If you have $100 bucks to throw away you could make 3 grand if the bill passes, but the reason the odds are so high is its really not a good bet. I think your chances are higher picking some nag at 30-1 at a horse track. Might be a ringer.
The Dems will pass something and then they will keep their fingers crossed that the economy improves.
WEC if you really want to make money, buy contracts for Republican control of House, it is 32 cents per contract.
If health care passes, Chek, guys like me with small businesses will not hire. Unemployment will not come down and the democrats will be left cleaning the sewers of Washington come fall 2010.
If it passes, it is not the fingers that need crossing, it is something else as they will be screwed in the election.
#137 Is it possible for me to buy at $3 and sell before XMAS if the price goes up like say to 10 or 20.
I am pretty confident that they will get some significant progress in the Senate desipite the current faux drama….the whole conference committe deal is another wild card thats pretty unclear right now….
I think its pretty much how long that Obama/Reid/Pelosi continue with this whole Public Option diversion – it has too be dropped in the end.
But again, as you say, they have to put up an appearance of a tough fight for the Moveon wackos
“WEC if you really want to make money, buy contracts for Republican control of House, it is 32 cents per contract.”
Yeah but that’s only 3-1 odds.
Here is a strategy. Buy contracts that the DEMS will retain the House. If they do you will make roughly a 35% profit, not bad in these hard times. If they don’t you will lose your money but you will be happy as a pig in slop and you will probably get the money back in saved taxes.
Win-win.
test
#134 I am going to be doing many more illegal actions in the future with all these nanny state laws being passed – starting with not buying their CrappyCare mandated health insurance lol
#137 Is it possible for me to buy at $3 and sell before XMAS if the price goes up like say to 10 or 20.
Yep, you could monitor it closely, it will certainly fluctuate based on news items and the rumor mill, and sell on an uptick. But it would have to be positive news for the bill and right now with bad polls and wavering Senators there is nothing to move it up.
#134 While winning the House in 10 is a nice consoliation prize, it will not help us to get rid of the CrappyCare takeover scam….
Sen. Reid’s Government-Run Health Plan Requires a Monthly Abortion Fee
http://republicanleader.house.gov/blog/?p=690
136… I agree…. delay is the only option here. And for some mod Dems like Bayh et al, delay is their saving grace. The GOP has to bog down this debate with amendment after amendment. Guys like Bayh do NOT want to have to vote on cloture. They want to avoid political risk, and Bayh himself has said that cloture is the same as the merits. They want to let the thing die of old age and election year politics instead of by vote in which they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
I still like the analogy of Pelosi and Reid being like the leaders of the Donner party. The snows are getting more intense and the path is starting to get drifted over. At some point, they are going to get stranded. No way forward. No way back. For now, they are trudging forward into the teeth of the oncoming blizzard.
This is a great column from Geogre Will exposing CrappyCare for the Unconstitutional affront to our Liberties, personal freedoms, and individual rights:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/19/fighting_a_coericion_clause_99203.html
“Democrats’ health bills depend on forcing individuals to buy insurance or face severe fines or imprisonment. In 1994, the Congressional Budget Office said forcing individuals to buy insurance would be “an unprecedented form of federal action,” adding: “The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States.”
This year, the Congressional Research Service delicately said “it is a novel issue whether Congress may use the (Commerce) Clause to require an individual to purchase a good or service.” Congress has the constitutional power to “regulate commerce … among the several states.” But a Federalist Society study by Peter Urbanowicz and Dennis Smith judges it perverse to exercise coercion under the Commerce Clause “on an individual who chooses not to undertake a commercial transaction.” As Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, says, there is “a fundamental difference between regulating activities in which individuals choose to engage” — e.g, drivers can be required to buy auto insurance — “and requiring such activities” just because an individual exists.
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., says Congress can tax — i.e., punish — people who do not buy insurance because the Constitution empowers Congress to tax for “the general welfare.” So, could Congress tax persons who do not exercise or eat their spinach?
When asked whether any compulsory insurance purchases are constitutional, Speaker Nancy Pelosi was genuinely astonished: “Are you serious? Are you serious?” In 1803, in Marbury v. Madison, Chief Justice John Marshall wrote, “The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken, or forgotten, the Constitution is written.” He was serious.”
This is exactly the issue with CrappyCare – who gets to make your medical decsions? You or the government?
This is the worst usurption of your individual rights ever proposed!
This is crunchtime for CrappyCare – FoxNews reports Reid is “confident” he has the votes for cloture!
Today is the time to make the phones, PC, and faxes smoke up in DC!
NEW FOX NEWS POLL
Obama Approval
46 / 47
bayerfan
These so-called moderate Dems want no part of having to vote on this.
That is why I am perplexed by Nelson saying what he did. I just can’t believe he would say it unless he knew all the other dems are onboard
“You can’t vote against Health Care and be a black man”–Jesse Jackson
AR Senate(Zogby)
Lincoln 41%
Baker 39%
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1770
151. WOW…
What did Nelson say, I missed it…
#151 Thats simply due to the amount of lies being put out currently by rightwing racist haters – I am sure that will go up up up once the great leader brings us the benevolent benefits of CrappyCare!
#151
Can Obama point to ANY success since he has been elected? I can’t think of any.
#151. I just heard that on Rush, but I haven’t been able to find the link yet.
#153 I guess you can vote for CrappyCare and become a deadman soon rather then later irregardles of your skin pigmentation
What did Nelson say, I missed it…
Comment by jason — November 19, 2009 @ 12:19 pm
unless I misread posts from previous thread, I believe he said he would reluctantly allow the bill to proceed. Someone please correct me if I am wrong
wylie
let me say once again. The individual mandate is certainly not constitutional. The Surpreme court might disagree with me but this is totally bizarre.
I cannot believe that on an up or down vote the House or senate would make it a criminal offense not to buy insurance. Are our federal courts not busy enough??
Sure it starts off with fines but how many homeless people pay fines??
When someone gets pulled over for a traffic stop we are going to have to hand over our insurance card too? We could be arrested for driving without a license or not having medical insurance??
154….GULP! And the GOP guy in that poll isn’t even sure he is running! Betcha this poll might persuade him.
159…that’s where I heard it too. Rush must have an advance on the story. Last Fox News/opinion dynamics poll had it 50/41
#158 Define success – if its “did he do anything to improve the nation’s economy, fiscal sitution (debt), or security” then answer is clearly NO
If its “did he do anything to move the country toward collectivism, rewarding left wing special interests, and helping to ensure long term left wing political success” then the answer is YES
Since Obama and his core supporters define success in the second manner, they have been hugely successful this year in their own estimation!
#161 Reluctant in only that he might be held politically accountable for helping this takeover pass!
In all other manners, Nelson is an avid supporter of a governemtn HC takeover!
You guys make a pretty good photo op.
Jason
apparently im an idiot – I quickly read through someones post , and thought it said Nelson has come out and sad he would allow it to procede. It was just someone speculating
my bad
#162 Yes, its unreal that something of this nature is even being considered in a supposedly free and open society!
What is even more scary, is that their are folks running around today passionately advocating for this form of Tyrannical governance!
The ACLU will get worked up over supposedly Bush snooping on your libray books if you had made 10000 overseas calls to Al Quida associated clerics but say not a word about something that is so clearly Unconstitutional and meancing to all 300 million citizens.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/19/gop-leaders-denounce-medicare-doc-fix/
If its “did he do anything to move the country toward collectivism, rewarding left wing special interests, and helping to ensure long term left wing political success” then the answer is YES
Scale down the rhetoric. He passed the porkulous bill which was loaded with pork. Pork is nothing new. Other than that, nothing significant has passed. You make good points but then you get hysterical a lose points.
Obama under 50% in PPP national poll as well:
Approve 49%
Disapprove 46%
Also from that poll: Obamacare 40/52
PPP, RAS, FOX, QUINN…
172….that would be PPP (D)
House Dem: ‘Growing’ liberal consensus to dump Geithner
Geithner should have never been confirmed in the first place.
#173 That is not bad enough yet. CrappyCare needs to be 70/30 against.
but don’t bother looking at the RCP average….the CBS rescue poll is already in place.
Nelson has not committed to vote to proceed. He has said all along that he wants to try to read some of the bill before he votes one way or the other. He and others have insisted on 72 hour notice. That’s saturday at 4PM or so.
Nelson did say that a vote to debate was not the same as a vote to approve the bill.
Some folks have read a lot into that comment. He also said that he has not made up his mind.
The PPP poll showing Obama at 49-46 is D+8, probably close to right although I’d say it’s a point or two too Dem but maybe not.
#171 How is that hysterics? I am simply making the point that the Obama and the new left of the D party look at things very through a very different prisim then you or I or the average guy on the street does…
They define success as passing an agenda that ensures a permenant left of center political and economic system
It’s registered voters, so it is probably pretty close.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_National_1119.pdf
This KSM is already starting to blow up in their face:
‘Heads I Win, Tails You Lose’: In 9/11 Case, KSM Won’t Walk Free Even If Found Not Guilty
Beyond incompetent.
Looking at everything happening right now in the Senate, I would love to see the motion to proceed to debate to go down in flames. Reading the tea leaves, I think Blanche Lincoln is very sensative to how this vote of hers will be perceived back home. I saw someone allude to Mike Huckabee saying that if she votes for cloture, she’ll be toast. I would have to agree. Even if Reid gets 60 right here, it is going to be a nightmare for him on the floor with what Coburn is going to do and what other GOP figures will do to gum everything up as well. Great primer on filabusters: http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2009/11/19/filibusternomics-101-like-freakenomics-but-for-the-us-senate/
They define success as passing an agenda that ensures a permenant left of center political and economic system
Other than the porkulous, what else has been enacted? Nothing. That’s why you are being hysterical.
#171 How is that hysterics? WEC
It isn’t, but consider the source of the comment.
I can imagine the howls we’re going to hear from Democratic senior aides when Coburn uses all parliamentary procedures which cannot be stopped to delay any progress. It will be a lot of fun.
D+8 is historically way too high. Tom Jensen knows this, so does he think 2010 will be more like 2008 or more like historical off year elections. Frankly Tom has to think its closer to the historical norms, so why did he do this? Same reason he did not put a likely voter screen on a poll yesterday. It does not help the home team and Jensen is a big fat democrat…
Boehner and McConnell’s poll numbers show improvement:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_favorability_ratings
183 – < 50%
Other than the porkulous, what else has been enacted? Nothing. That’s why you are being hysterical.
Comment by Chekote
If mandating socialized medicine isn’t worthy of being “hysterical” about, nothing is. Your histrionics on abortion borders on the hysterical as well.
#187
You know people are going get tired of the constant “crying wolf”. That’s my point. Nothing other than the porkulous has been passed. Obama has NOTHING to point to as a success. Not for the conservatives. Not for the liberals. Not for the moderates. That’s why his numbers are tanking. For WEC to claim that Obama has had any successes is hysterics.
Heh. http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior/2009/11/19/sen-tom-coburn-threatens-to-demand-reading-of-reids-health-care-bill-on-the-senate-floor/
If mandating socialized medicine isn’t worthy of being “hysterical” about, nothing is.
Has the bill been signed into law? I didn’t notice. /sarc
Your histrionics on abortion borders on the hysterical as well.
But I am the one who ALWAYS brings up abortion. /sarc
#186 The long term budget was also passed. Numerous leftist judges. Regulatory actions, etc. Surrender in the war on terrorism (now a police action). Its not just passage of legilative actions that I was refering too.
I guess next time I will spell this all out.
In any case, I get frequent complaints here on HHR that my posts are too short so typing more stuff will be better right lol
????? seems content to let the falling rock land on it’s head,before giving warning.
#194 Cool, good for him!
Has the bill been signed into law? I didn’t notice. /sarc~~????
It’s too late to complain then.
184… This fits with my belief that the Left projects its own characteristics onto their opponents. So here, when the Left accuses the Bush administration of impermissably holding gitmo defendants and seeking to circumvent due process….. it in fact THE LEFT that is seeking nothing more than show trials and prejudging defendants in public.
The rule is very simple. Whatever the Left accuses the Right of (raciosm, sexism, stealing elections, wanting sick people to die quickly), just apply that allegation to the Left, and you have the truth of the matter.
Coleman can demand it, but reid can refuse.
The long term budget was also passed. Numerous leftist judges. Regulatory actions, etc. Surrender in the war on terrorism (now a police action). Its not just passage of legilative actions that I was refering too.
Are those successes? The liberals care about cap and trade, public options and withdrawing from Iraq. He has been a total failure by every measure. For you to claim otherwise is hysterical.
#193 Again, I am just trying to make the point that the new left’s metric for success is much different then ours. You can agree or disagree but its not hysterical and for you to just throw that out charge out there is unfounded rebuking IMHO.
#202 For you to put your head in the sand and say “nothing to see here” is naive at best.
Liberals appear to be very happy as all polls show Obama consistently holding firm with 85-95% of Democrats on approval and other issues.
Evidently, the core supporters see progress as they define it.
Again, more unfounded rebuking.
Again, I am just trying to make the point that the new left’s metric for success is much different then ours.
Even but the left’s metric he has failed. That’s my point.
#204 While no public option is ok it still does not negate that the rest of the bill being a government HC takeover
It sounds like Huckabee will be leading Obama or tied with him tomorrow.
Evidently, the core supporters see progress as they define it.
Bush had sky high numbers with Republicans for years even though he adopted policies they didn’t like. Obama hasn’t even been in office one year. His base is not going to abandom him.
#206 Ok, I disagree with you. The fact that opinion polls consistently show firm support from his base backs me up I think.
In either case, I did not espouse hyterical opinions.
I will graciously accept your apology any time now….
The individual mandate is as bad or worse than any public option.
208 – Is that supposed to be reassuring Tommy?
#204
I wish Lieberman had been the VP pick.
I will graciously accept your apology any time now….
Obama has not had any successes by any measure. No apologize warranted.
213…so McCain could have lost Missouri, Montana, and a few other states too?
#209 When Bush was polling in the 30’s and 40’s his base number had eroded down into the low 70’s which is terrible and represented significant erosion.
I will lend some credence to what you say if they lose on HC, Cap n trade, Amnesty, and Card Check…..then you may see this happen.
Right now, what the left sees is incremental progress in enacting a far reaching agenda.
Gallup 50-44
211 – Nods, equally as bad in my view but whatever, can I get a group photo, you guys make a great photo op, DQ and coyote.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
In Senate, they are still trying to figure out if Ft. Hood was a terrorist act. God help us.
Hi Darrell!
Mac only won those states because of Sarah “the real leader of the GOP” Palin. That is obvious.
If You’re Going To San Francisco [Robert Costa]
From the San Francisco Chronicle:
It might as well have cooties. Hardly anyone wants to touch the thing, or even get close to it.
The new autobiography by moose hunter and failed vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is harder to find in the Bay Area than a hockey mom. Some bookstores figure it’s one of those grit-your-teeth First Amendment deals that principled booksellers must put up with from time to time.
But many nonchain bookstores won’t handle it.
“Our customers are thinking people,” said Nathan Embretson, a bookseller at Pendragon Books in Oakland. “They’re not into reading drivel.”
There’s not a single copy on the shelf. Embretson said no one has asked for it except for one guy, who was kidding.
“He said he wanted to look at it but he also said he didn’t really want to read it,” Embretson said. “Anyway, he certainly didn’t want to buy it. I think he regarded looking at it as a kind of punishment.”
There are no copies of the book at Cover to Cover Booksellers in Noe Valley, either.
“Anything like that we wouldn’t carry,” said clerk Emily Stackhouse. “We’re a small store and it would probably gross us all out. Some things you carry because of freedom of speech, but a book like that is just gross.”
“Can Obama point to ANY success since he has been elected? I can’t think of any.”
I can ….
“Barack Obama told CNN yesterday, “I’ve restored America’s standing in the world…”
I would have posted it on the “epitome of arrogance” thread but there wasn’t one…
new thread
#214 Again by your defintion. By his and the lefts – YES.
That’s ok, I didnt expect an apology. This is the big leagues not the minors on the HHR blog so you got to be able to handle the personal attacks and unfounded rebuking as that is part of the territory lol
GPO,
Yea, it is a number #1 best seller. No one wants to read it.
Guess what? All the deranged libs are buying it on-line. They simply can’t help themselves.
#222 – Showing off their tolerance once again in the San Fran area.
223 – Talk about being in a bubble.
Liberals don’t read books. Conservatives do.
#216
Wylie
Obama and the Dems won primarily because they were going to get us out of Iraq. Nothing is happening there. The liberal goals are cap and trade. So far nothing enacted. Public Option. Nothing enacted. Prosecuting Bush and Cheney. So far they have to settle for KSM getting a civial trial. Really. Obama is a failure by any measure.
“Barack Obama told CNN yesterday, “I’ve restored America’s standing in the world…”
LOL
I could just see the MSN’s blaring headlines if these poll numbers related to Bush…
“EMBATTLED PRESIDENT FACES PLUNGING APPROVAL RATING”
“RECORD NEW LOWS FOR PRESIDENT’S APPROVAL”
“DOUBTS ABOUT POLICIES FUEL PRECIPITOUS DROP IN APPROVAL”
Rdel, Let us all thank you for your great info on HC.
I said Nelson flipped, because I was stupid enough to listen to ABC News
#230 Again, there is obviously no convincing you otherwise. But I think you are in err if you dont think Obama and the left are entirely satisfied with what they view as progress made on their agenda.
You define success by converntional metrics – they do not.
Its a simple point and a legitmate one even if you want to acknowelege this.
Plus FWIW, it was pretty well clear that Iraq had faded as a major issue in the 08 election. The D and Obama simply won due to the untimely financial crisis and not being perceived as the governing party (ie the unBush people).
GPO (#222): If a bookstore doesn’t want to sell a book, they won’t, and they don’t have to! Believe me, I know. I’ve got a book out right now and the biggest hinderance to my sales is book stores who won’t stock my book. (By the way, Newt Gingrich wrote the Foreword to my book — an excellent Foreword.)
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Best-Zoos-Travel-Families/dp/188714076X/ref=pd_sim_b_1
As a Republican woman living in the People’s Republic of Davis, California – who lived (suffered) through those kooky doldrum years of Governor Moonbeam… I say, GO MEG!!!
Meg has been running a series of really good ads on the radio lately, too. She clearly states her background, what she sees as lacking in the state, and how she would try to fix the multitude of problems.
Annie
She is a RINO.