ND: Hoeven Would Lead Dorgan By 19%
Democrat John Zogby is out with a new poll showing if the Republicans could somehow convince North Dakota Governor John Hoeven to take on Democratic US Senator Byron Dorgan, it would be an easy pick up for the GOP.
US SENATE – NORTH DAKOTA (Zogby)
John Hoeven (R) 55%
Byron Dorgan (D-inc) 36%Byron Dorgan (D-inc) 60%
Duane Sand (R) 28%
It continues to be ridiculous that Democrats own three of the four US Senate seats in teh two Dakotas as well as the two At-Large US House seats. While it would be great if Hoeven ran against Dorgan, but are there seriously no other credible Republicans in North Dakota that could give Dorgan a challenge? This poll was done November 17-18 among 502 likely voters.
first
and from GOP Bloggers in the State Hoeven might be announcing a Senate Challenge to Dorgan in January 2010.
I think its very possible that Hoeven will run.
I might add that the Dorgan-Conrad-Pomeroy act in ND is running long.
Lets hope so….What an easy pick up. Like most Red State senators (Webb, Lincoln, Nelson, Bahl, Landrieu, etc, I am sure Dorgan will vote for Health Care cloture, but vote against the actually bill to give them cover. They only need 50 votes.
It appears Larry Sabato belives that he will run against Dorgan. Per his Crystal Ball, he has a Hoeven/Dorgan matchup. Of course, he does mention that Hoeven has decided about a run yet.
I agree with Dave, ridculous, that the Dems hold that many seats in ND and SD. Also, they hold two senate seats in Very
Red MT. As I have said before, Republicans cannot lost senate seats in Red States or there is hell to pay when a crucial bill comes up like this health care bill.
On the flip side we have Snowe/Collins. Ugh what a swap.
We need SD-MT-ND to turn red or redder
In 10 and 12 we re-take all of these seats. We should keep them as long as we stick to our principles – restrained spending, smaller gov, less taxes.
When we stray and try to act like the other side, we lose every time.
Sarah will keep the boys in line.
Hoeven needs to announce now, to pressure doornob to vote no on cloture.
With Obama under 50, you would think some of these people would realize that the Messiah factor has worn off and blind obedience no longer makes sense.
RAS Obama 27% Approve, 40% Disapprove (-13), 47% Approve, 52% Disapprove. Little change from yesterday. This is significant, as Frank noted at RP that he thought there was a big outlier in the data that would have fallen off today. It didn’t… Oh boy….
Last post I meant RAS Strongly Approve 27%, Strongly Disapprove 40%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
#
Hoeven needs to announce now, to pressure doornob to vote no on cloture.
Comment by D QUIXOTE — November 21, 2009 @ 9:17 am
Yes.
Pick up the phone and tell him I DARE YOU to do it tonight.
Go ahead and I announce tomorrow.
All eyes in Arkansas are on Lincoln now. Will she represent the people or her party? All Her party of course.
Thanks Sean. This confirms that Obama’s support is really falling and falling fast.
I expect Ras to start showing 44 to 45 with SA diff of -15 within a month.
The terrorists trials and HC are going to crush him. Even Gallup will be at 47 or 48.
Hi HD,
The cynic in me thinks that Hoeven and Huck are waiting until these idiots vote yes. Then they are dead meat. They don’t want them to vote no.
Now its getting ridiculous… Obama went to
get a hamburger and he “bowed” to the
Burger King!!!
Palin gets it:
In the Midnight HourShare
Yesterday at 11:34pm
The Senate is set to vote Saturday night, right before the holiday, on a motion to proceed on its latest health care government take-over bill. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is pushing for yet another weekend vote (commonplace now for the party of “transparency”) because he knows that the American people will be none too happy about the Democrats’ proposal the longer they have to look it over.
A vote against the Democrats’ motion will help stop Obamacare before it gets any closer to becoming a reality. While this Saturday night vote might seem like a procedural matter, at the end of the day a vote against Senator Reid’s motion is a vote against massive new government spending and a take-over of 1/6th of the U.S. economy; it’s a vote against billions in tax increases and penalties; it’s a vote against federal funding of abortion; and it’s a vote against ignoring responsible tort reform.
And in case you hadn’t heard – just a reminder that you’ll start paying higher taxes to fund this scheme in 2010 even though it doesn’t start up until 2014. Only in Washington does that make any sense. Among the provisions in this bill will be a $2500 cap on Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs). The IRS allows families with special needs children to use FSAs to cover educational expenses. This new $2500 cap will hit these families especially hard and cost them hundreds of dollars in new taxes every year.
Contact your senators and tell them to vote against the motion to proceed tomorrow night. The American people don’t support this – we support the commonsense solutions that have been proposed, but totally ignored by (at this point) some out-of-control Washington politicians. Let’s put a stop to Obamacare before it goes any further.
- Sarah Palin
Huckabee has as much interest in the Senate as you have in nailing Chekote, MD.
We are now going to punish families who have special needs children. I guess that is the Democrats way of telling us that we should have murdered those children while they were in the womb.
Remember this when they claim to be the party that “cares” about the children. It is total bullchit. They care about their own power and nothing else.
Again, Sarah Palin cuts through the noise and frames an important issue.
Uh the 60 are in the bag, despite Faux News telling us that there are two holdouts Blanced nuts and Senator Lamedrieu.
Lamedrieu was bought off, as will Blanceh nuts.
And remember 97% of the test votes to commence debate – become bils.
Thanks to the Rs for not fighting.
MD – What do you think about Giuliani for Senate? I think that would be a good place for him.
Wes,
Huck has no shot at being POTUS. Less than zero. He is a minor player who played the spoiler role last time out. He is also NOT an economic conservative although he is trying to portray himself as that now.
If he is the candidate, I won’t vote for POTUS.
Nothing, even a gun to my head, would get me to vote for Hussein Chavez.
The R party is a joke because they just want to go home for Thanksgiving.
The GOP needs to educate people a vote for this to come to the floor is effectively a vote for the bill to pass.
I’d LOVE to see Huck in the Senate. But most likely, he doesn’t run, but Lincoln still falls in 2010.
Its too little to late….they phuqed themselvees by not using any and all parlimentary procedures, which would have run out the clock until after they come back from break. That way more and more opposition could mount.
Sean,
Despite Rudy being better suited for an executive position, he should have an relatively easy time beating Gildy. Someone does need to remind Rudy that he actually has to run a campaign. This would be the opposite of what he did in 08.
The Senate needs a guy like him who can bust a few heads. He is also an economic conservative. He is socially liberal but I can live with that. He will also be great on national defense and terror issues.
Rmemeber 97% of these procedural votes ultimately become actual bills that pass the Senate.
Tina and Wes,
The only GOP member actively trying to educate anyone is Sarah Palin. Who else is? These friggin members of the Senate are a complete waste of space.
“Sarah will keep the boys in line.” Yes, Mrs. Palin is about our only hope.
Tina,
For 4 weeks I have been saying that this is a done deal and what is going on now is theatre. For some reason, most here refuse to believe this and will not believe it even as Hussein Chavez signs the bill.
The bill will be signed before Christmas.
I’m aware, MD. Unfortunately Huckabee’s Andromeda Galaxy-sized ego won’t let him see what you, I, and many others already know.
Yup, it passes, the dog and pony show here – hoping that a moderate D will side with the Rs is wasteless.
True Wes. I like his little TV show though. He should stick to that or run for Senate. He is only wasting time and money running for POTUS.
And whoever agreed to allowing 8 hours of debate on the R side is wasteless scum.
Tina,
There are no moderate D’s. That is pure fiction designed to keep D Senators in red states.
You can blame Mitch for that Tina. Yet another Senator with no balls.
It is sad that the member of the GOP with the biggest balls is a 5′5″, 120 lb, heel wearing woman.
The boys should all be ashamed of themselves.
Agreed, mdefl I just lave at the hysteria here hoping to find a moderate D to stop it.
My thought is Palin will pick a Republican candidate early, and get behind that person, and that person will become he challenger to Obama. If Palin gets behind Thune, I think Thune will be the nominee. From what people have said around here, that may be the best scenario.
Unless, of course, Sarah decides to run herself. Then, all bets are off. I don’t know if she’s the best person to run against Obama though, she turns off a LOT of indies.
#18
Brilliant. Simply brilliant. Thank God Palin is around because NO ONE else would of thought of making those points. Except for maybe Wylie.
Has anyone heard if Byrd will show up?
And is he an automatic yes vote?
Tina,
We will see no less than 100 posts today with the following:
“Word is that Lincoln is a no” or:
“Word is that Nelson is going to change his mind” or
“Byah is having second thoughts”
Everyone is being played. The Dems have to be laughing at how seriously some are taking this obvious charade. No wonder they are in the majority.
McConnell needs to channel LBJ for how to keep his conference in line to make Reid’s tenure as Dem Leader a living hell.
I guess that is the Democrats way of telling us that we should have murdered those children while they were in the womb.
Yeah, all Democrats want to kill special needs children. I am sure that Barbara Walters wanted her special needs sister dead. I am sure that Eunice Kennedy started the special olympics to embarass and mock special needs kids.
/sarc
There are 60 votes already, its over with. Because little Mitch wants to go home for Thanksgiving break, he agreed to 8 hours of debate. There is no stopping this train wreck now.
I am glad I am not a member of the R party.
Wes
I think McConnell is more effective than Lott or Frisk. He is a pretty tough political player.
Sean,
Indy women are moving to Palin. She is becoming more and more popular. She had strong appearances on Barbara Walters and Oprah. That is indy women Heaven.
It is crystal clear that Palin is the new defacto leader of the GOP.
There isn’t even a close second. Look at Mac? He might be primaried out! LOL!
And they will have the votes for ultimate passage I fear. At least if Palin was the Senate Minority leader, she would have fought.
I rather win, but even if you do not have a change to win, you use every and all parlimentary tactic in your arsenal. Why keep your power dry? Do you want to save it for next Winter?
She became the defacto leader of the Party. Mtich McConnell, Steele, mcAmnesty, and Goober Graham are useless. They may be good on one or two issues, every now and then, but they are very unreliable.
Tina,
Mitch is a complete waste as minority leader. The most important vote since 65 and he is worried about his turkey. He should go to the mat, even though it is already decided, to motivate his party.
Tina, I am glad I am an indy now as well. I left the GOP because of the way the Mac team would not come to Sarah’s defense and prevented her from defending herself.
She is getting the last laugh!
I also keep going to the NRO site, and the checkpants R commenators there – have very little details about today’s important vote.
I have warned that if we lose tonite’s vote we lose the debate. The bill passes!!!
#25
Tough to do. The argument that you permitted people to have their say by allowing an up and down vote is very appealing to the democratic instincts of the American people.
BTW, I meant Frist.
I plan on giving some $ to Hayworth.
BJG is a good site for information too, Mdefl. However, at this site, its been “we will find the moderate D to save us.” No outrage that the Rs sold us out b/c they want to go off for Thanksgiving Break.
I warned not to underestimate Piglosi and Reid and was basically laughed at by the plants.
I love that she went to Michigan first. A total jab at McCain.
Yup, I will donate to that – the R party needs to be changed and having Rinos and sellouts and checkpant Rs heading it – will lead to future disasters. I am not for establishing a 3rd party.
But look at one other thing that Mitch has managed to do – he had the base against the vote, and he sold the base out.
MD,
The forgot two things at this site – by in large:
There is no such thing as a moderate D.
Piglosi and Reid play hard ball on votes.
You can not have surrender Rs fight back, like Mitch and the gang that could not shoot straight.
I know Tina. You and I were the only ones (OK maybe WEC) who knew it as a done deal. Look at my post above predicting the posts that will be typed here throughout the day.
I guarantee this vote would not have happened today had Palin been minority leader. Of course, the NOW would have said that she should be home with her family.
Tina,
Can I send you an email? I still have the address from the old RP days?
Yes, go ahead, you can do so.
Fort Bragg lifts all media restrictions for Palin visit
By Mike Arnholt
Executive editor
And do not get me wrong, I despise Piglosi and Reid, but they are good Senators to get the votes. We do not have the #s, nor the folks that want to do battle.
So, in summary, the fix is in.
Laugh all that you want to when you encounter the Death Panel, pay the abortion tax and 16 other taxes.
Chek, if McConnell were an effective leader, then the GOP would not have lost 8 Senate seats last year. LBJ and Mansfield NEVER lost that many seats in one election.
And get medical advice from a chain smoker, such as the Obumbler.
leaky Leahy makes me want to puke.
Wes raises an excellent point, without new R leadership (something that needed to be done in January) – we are doomed.
Your medical advice, as Sarah has stated so many times, will be given by a beurocrat in DC who is probably going to be 80 lbs overweight.
Medical advice will be given by the Chain Smoker in the WH – the same person who came out with the policy on mammograms.
Tina and MD
I do not know what exactly these limits on debate & december signing dates that you are talking about.
Tine McConnell has not agreeded to limiting debate to 8 hours on healthcare. The whole question of cloture tonight to decide whether to take the bill up for discussion. McConnell has not agreeded to 8 hours of debate on the healthcare bill as the senate has not even voted on taking the bill up.
If anyone thinks Obama signs a bill by 12/25/2009 or even 12-31-2009 they are absolutely dreaming. In my opinion for purposes of delay a positive vote by 60-40 tonight would be the best possible circumstances for insuring that a bill does not get passed this year.
A vote in Reid’s favor tonight pospones for weeks the hard decisions that Reid and the democrats will have to make to get this bill passed. Not to mention what the conference between the senate and house might entail.
Time has to be the GOP’s friend in this matter. We have to push stuff till January and beyond
Lol I read chain smoker and I think of myself, your on fire today tina, I like it.
#21, Yes, thanks a lot Republicans. How come of our Republicans didn’torganized a protest this weekend like the female rep. (forgot her name) did two weeks ago. The lack of protests sends a message taht we like the Senate Bill.
#22, Even though, Rudy’s first choice was to run for govenor, I believe he will run for Senate. He has to hold an office if he wants to run for President again.
What about the former pot smoker, who now is a Chain smoker in the white house, KH?
Rdelbov, I am aware, that its a vote to proceed, but 97 percentof these votes become bills. I would not have kept my power dry at this early stage.
Remember, the Vice Dummy will be telling the women that you do not need a mammogram either. Hair extensions will be paid for, however.
#66
Wes,
I think he is more effective than Lott. I mean what did Lott or Frist do when in power to defund ACORN, to cripple the unions? In other words, what did they do to take down the institutional advantage that the Dems had build over the decades? Look I don’t agree with Dems on just about everything except the social issues where they happen to be the party of limited government; but, I do admire their political toughness and the effectiveness in using government to advance their political power.
BTW, I think it was RINO Brooks who suggested that the RNC stop wasting resources on the sinking USS McCain and instead use the resources to limit Senate GOP losses so that Obama could be stopped or at least slowed down. Looking back, it was a pretty smart approach.
Pot smoker? Coke snorter! Remember when the msm and the nutty left made that a huge issue for GWB. Now? Not so much.
42- Pretty sure he can vote by proxy anyway.
Palin is twice the woman that Mitch McConnell is!
Leahy is about as disgraceful as one can be. I just loved it when Dick Cheney told him to eph off.
#32, I tend to agree, it will be signed before Christmas. For weeks, many said it would never pass the House and most defintley will never be voted on in the Senate. New Flash…they were wrong. It is hard to stop a party that has 40+ house seats and 10+ Senate Seats. If Reid gets the 60 votes tonight, just one step closer to Socialism.
Yes, we know. The MSM is biased. Yawn, move on. And learn to deal with it.
Every bill is unique and special in the house/senate. The 40/41 passage rate for bills brought up for cloture is not that useful for study.
When 45 senators are dead set against a bill it just does not come up. No cloture vote is done. Dozens of bills are killed just because one senator opposes it. The US does have time to debate for three days every single bill or amendment.
Many cloture votes are down for either delay or procedural reasons. Folks are not out to kill a bill but are trying to get their pound of flesh(so to speak) out of the process.
Since the 1970’s Cloture or Fillbuster really only mattered in
a. Common Site union organizing in the late 1970’s where this bill died due to a fillbuster. This bill died
b. The Bush Medicare Drug benefit plan. This bill only had 59 votes to proceed as the fillbuster was killing it. Conservatives were concerned about the cost. Liberals wanted to make it better for them but were willing to proceed. Trent Lott opposed the bill but provided the 60th vote to proceed to debate. This bill got like 75 votes at passage time.
75 –
shout out to the chain smokers!
So what information did the WH put out at midnight last night?
#72, Are you a betting man? If so, you are going to lose.
The KKK member can pony express in his vote.
KH, Are you sure?
Trent Lott opposed the bill but provided the 60th vote to proceed to debate. This bill got like 75 votes at passage time.
Comment by rdelbov — November 21, 2009 @ 10:32 am
Yup, it just proves what we have been saying, Rdelbov.
#74
Rudy will NEVER get the GOP nomination. He is a pro-abort, thrice married, homo-roomating, RINO. I think the GOP base made themselves pretty clear in 2008. No point in wasting another $50 million to learn the same lesson.
This vote passes, then one or 2 Rinos go off reservation in the subsequent votes, then – you have Obamacare.
There is not enough room to handle everyone who wants to meet Sarah!
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/performingarts/stories/DN-palinbrief_1120gd.ART.State.Edition1.4b72df9.html
“This vote passes, then one or 2 Rinos go off reservation in the subsequent votes, then – you have Obamacare.”
I am not sure what you suggest the course of action for GOP should be.
If 1 or 2 “RINOS” go off reservation for final bill, why won’t they go off reservation for this vote?
#93
Clear evidence that she is ready to deal with Putin. After all, how many books has Putin sold?
Well, at least it took 50 posts before our resident court jester used the term RINO. Maybe tomorrow we can shoot for 100.
89 – No, but I know in years past I’ve heard people “vote by proxy” for other people, then later heard the clerk read “no by proxy” etc. Maybe they stopped allowing it, it has been a couple years since I’ve heard it spoken on cspan, then again I don’t watch as much cspan as I used too.
Because history shows that the test vote is perhaps more important than other votes Sam, just look at the Medicare one cited by Rdelbvo.v. They barely had 60 votes to begin debate, and then 70 voted affirmately for it.
And history is not our side- 97 percent of these type of votes result in a bill ultimately being passed.
Judd Gregg – SEnator – NH – Fox News this morning.
#91 – Didn’t help that he 1/2 arsed it during the primary either.
OK, but my point is…
If the Dems did not have 60 votes, why do you assume that 1 or 2 Rinos would not have provided the 59th or 60th vote?
IED ALERT!!!
You are presuming that they do not have 60 votes to begin debate? I am not making that presumption…
Tina,
Here is what I think happens:
1. The Dems get their 60. That is done.
2. Debate proceeds on the bill. Harry removes the pure public option but inserts triggers which will ensure a gov takeover within 5 to 7 years.
3. Mandates will be in the bill but the middle class and rich will pick up the tab for anyone making less than 75k or some other arbitrary number. Massive wealth redistribution.
4. Snowe and Collins will abandon ship and 1 other R will shock everyone. This will allow numerous Dems cover and it will pass with 51.
5. Hussein Chavez signs it before Christmas.
My point is that its tough to get 60, but less tough to get final paassage…
I just called mcconnell’s office (got through easy) and asked him not to stop debate after 8 hours today….debate, debate, debate. Everyone should call as well.
#93 – My sources told me chek’s womens group has tickets and is renting bus to go and make a ladies day trip out of it.
Tina
The GOP and teabaggers have lead a massive public relation effort against this bill. Guess what the poll numbers on this bill absolutely stink. When I saw this process start in March or April I thought Obamacare would through like the Stimulus bill did. Not anymore. There is huge pressure on Lincoln & Landrieu. They will pay a political price for their yes votes tonight
That being said the power of the fillbuster is not absolute. If over 50 senators want something that 60 vote barrier only has so much effect. In the case of healthcare Reid has 58 senators wanting to debate. Truth be know Reidcare today might get 55 votes. The will of the senate is hard to stop.
The GOP’s best hope is a combination of Fabian delay plus the old poison pill. Push this bill til next year. Let the economy and deficit worsen.
Make senators vote to put people in prison over healthcare paper work foulups, put Stupak in, deny benefits to all immigrants and make every senator vote on every tax. Ditch the public option or better yet postpone the start of Reidcare until 2021.
Here’s a killer amendment. Make sure Obamacare is deficit neutral or the bill does not take effect.
#91, I didn’t say i wanted him to be President. Just facing a fact. We could use him as a senator during times like this.
Exactly, Lieberman, will also vote yes on final passage too despite all of the smoke and mirrors.
So, we lose 2 likely- a vote that barely could get 60, results in a final passage of 63 to 65.
That is how I see it but I only speak the truth. McDonnell should not have held his power dry this early.
104 – Probably I don’t think we lose more then one half the twinset though.
#107
I actually thought about it. I will still go and check out the scene. Maybe Palin will come out. I am curious to see what she looks like in person.
Yes, Rdelbov, but you are dealing with Piglosi and Reid who do not care about the polls and they can get all of their folks on their side.
Our side just wants to go home for thansgiving break.
Oh, I forgot Stupak but remembered it when I read Rdel’s post.
Stupak will be in the bill but there will be a clause that it will be examined again in a few years.
So, if the Dems already have 63-65 votes, why waste time? Just pass it and go home.
Not using the delaying tactics available has telegraphed that the fix is in.
The Rinos want to make history, Snowe has says so, she is the one that I think will vote yes on final passage, plus there is always one or two other Rinos that “want attention.”
Tina
I agree that 50 is much easier. I am just saying that if Reid fends off amendments and Reidcare looks likely to pass with a public option in it. That’s when Lieberman-Nelson-Lincoln plus 40 republicans can fillbuster.
Fillbustering on 12-18-2009 is a lot better then 11-21-2009.
If Reid is stymied tonight he got adjust his bill to get Landrieu and Snowe. They have said they will support a bill without a public option. So let Reid pittle for three weeks to get the point where he might pull it.
Sam, you need to ask that question of the Senator McConnell.
115 – Gotta go through the process and put on a good show sam.
david
The only reason Rudy was running for Senate was because he was eyeing a White House run. Now it is clear that no pro-choicer will be allowed on the national ticket. He is making a lot of money. Why bother to run for the Senate? Unless he wants to help NY.
A friend of mine in TX will be seeing Palin. She is beyond thrilled.
And remember, as more and more votes are taken, I think the vote conferencing goes to 51. Mark Levin mentioned that last night. I may be wrong, but its 60 to start, but the last vote is 51.
I read an article at The Hill yesterday and it seemed like Baucus and Byrd needed to be there to vote.
No, Tina, you are saying that they have 63-65 votes, and that’s the truth.
If that’s the truth, then why waste everyone’s time?
Lamedrew has been bought – its the Louisiana purchase of 2009.
Blanched nuts has also been bought.
Every Senate vote on the final bill is 51. The procedural votes require 60 to move forward.
112 – Lol, probably a lot like her pictures. I’m headed to the bookstore later to pick it up as well as Flynn’s latest. I was thrilled to see him have the whole hour with beck last night.
I am saying that: the 60 vote test vote is the most difficult one to get, as an example see the Prescription Drug vote- then vote on final passage is easier.
And what Mark Levin says that it goes down to 51 – the Senate rules make it easier too.
Sam,
It is all theatre for the plebs.
Blanched nut – lol, is that new today?
#128
Most people look like their pictures but thinner. Krauthammer is very, very thin.
In summary, if we lose tonights vote we lose on the bill.
Its my 2 cents.
Both you and Rdelbov just supported me further with your posts.
Thompson would by far be a better Senator than Feingold, but Thompson’s support of healthcare reform really sticks in my craw.
Lets put it anothe way:
If I was SEnate minority leader – we probably lose tonight – the numbers do not favor us – but we go down fightign.
We do not break for Thanskgiving.
KH
What do you think we should do about Iran?
Tina,
We already lost this. Beckel, God Bless his drunk heart, was absolutely right.
KH – I am really upset with the R party today, if you have not noticed. They are worthless scum…..
124 – So be it HD, then I’m either wrong or they changed it in recent years due to all the people missing votes.
Fred Thompson supports Obamacare? Or are you talking about Tommie Thompson?
DJ,
Thompson is yesterday’s news. Yawn.
And again, I only go by what the NH Senator says, that if we lose tonite, it has a 97 percent chance to pass (on final).
They are worthless scum…..
Then leave us alone.
138 – I noticed Tina, might require a trip to the range.
MD, let it pass, perhaps some here will finally realize it.
136 – The same thing I thought we should do last year.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I am leaving for the range at 11:00. I hurt my trigger finger and could not shoot for several weeks.
There is no leadership in the Senate. Palin is going to have to whip these puppies into shape.
DJ be talking about T.Thompson.
Then, I am making lasagna when I return, to eat for tonight. I have Italian Beer, Limoncello, Amaretto, and great CA Wine. It will just have to be one of those nights.
That is what I assumed KH
“MD, let it pass, perhaps some here will finally realize it.”
What do you mean, finally realize it.
I realized in March that Obamacare was going to pass.
With 60 senate and 260 house seats, Obama will pass anything he wants.
Yeah I heard you say that last week about your finger, I thought to myself boy I hope it’s not her trigger finger.
let me also say as I discuss this with my friends and allies here.
I could be wrong. I hope I am not.
The unexpected can always happen.
You might see an unpopular plan be foisted on this nation by a single party in a complete partisan way. It would nearly unpreceded.
That’s why calls and letters plus the polls are so crucial
If its my thing in life I have learned it to be humble and willing to admit that the oppisite result of one’s beliefs can occur
I will come on here later tonight and read post after post:
“I thought we could depend on a moderate D.”
Blah,blah, blah..
Tina,
Can I come over for dinner? That sounds awesome. Your invited back east the next time I make my famous beef stew. I made it a couple of weeks ago and had 8 people over.
One time I had more than 20 people.
Sam, it is not you, you were not the one saying lets find the phantom Moderate D. WE are fine.
Hey people wake up! The chance to defeat Obamacare was before the election. If the GOP had gone 3 for 3. Or if for some miracle the GOP had picked up the CA seat, it would have scared the Dems. Instead, Pelosi could point to NY 23 to make the case that passing Obamacare will not result is an automatic loss of seats. That’s why she was going around repeating the lie that NY 23 had been held by the GOP since the Civil War. Once the calculation was made that it was better to pass something than not, the Dems had the votes to pass it period. And if anyone here is truly interested in stopping the Obama agenda, then they need to make sure they vote instead of staying home because the GOP candidate doesn’t pass the zillion litmus tests currently being applied.
Rdelbov, its just one of the few times, that we disagree. If I am wrong later on, I will acknowledge it…
MD,
No luck so far in tracking down EPH.
T. Thompson looks like Chuckie the evil doll.
158 – Put down the shovel, you were doing so good today.
Yes, all are welcome to come over, but I live in a rural part of the state, so you may see oppossums, skunks, deer, raccoons, mt. lions, etc. Definetly, not terrain for the city slicker or RINO!!!!
The same thing I thought we should do last year.
Which was? I forgot.
I have talked to him Marv, several times.
Deep cover.
A classic underestimation of Reid and Piglosi.
But wait, I think the phantom moderate D may be….
Lamedrew has been bought – its the Louisiana purchase of 2009.
…..
Nice!
160 – Marv he’s like ghost huh.
Tina,
My backyard is a wild life adventure. Deer, Fox and there was even bear sighting last year. I am used to it.
Its pretty cool though to have wildlife around.
KH
No shovel. Once the House passed the bill, it was a done deal in the Senate. Do you honestly think that Pelosi is going to allow Reid to embarass her? Do you realize what a fatal blow it will be for Obama not to pass HC reform? As DeMint said, it will be his Waterloo. Everybody knows it. The Dems won’t let that happen.
Justrand thinks Senators must be present to vote.
Otherwise, I can get a private plane to SF, and we can utilize my “Summer Home.”
Tina,
There are some on here whose intelligence does not match that of the wild life. I am not mentioning names.
I can give you a tour of the city, the bums, etc. I can show you were Major Nuissance lives, Piglosi, and Frankenstein.
BTW – if you want good Lobster, have it mailed in from Nova Scotia.
Now that I have taken my dose of Prozac, I can tackle some of the pessimism.
1. The likelihood is >90%, they will get 60 votes today. The only joker in the pack is Lieberman and his vote, the rest are posturing
2. The debate that follows is going to be painful for the dems; they will be asked to vote on mandates, tax increases, medicare cuts and it will make for a littany of ads for next fall
3. At the end of the day, anything with public option or triggers will die in the Senate — Lieberman and Snowe will not vote for cloture
4. Reid will then have a choice; pass one with no public options and face the wrath of his base and declare a hollow victory or do nothing and I think he will go the former route
5. At the end, they will havae a hotch-potch of a bill and lots of congressmen and senators will have put themselves in precarious positions. And finally,
6. This great country has withstood worse things and survived; so control what you can and stop fretting about what you cannot control.
KnightHawk,
I’ve improved my seats to the Navy @ HI game; 40 yard line, Navy side, halfway up, aisle seats.
Sen. Levin: Fort Hood shooting rampage was likely a terrorist attack
By Roxana Tiron – 11/20/09 04:17 PM ET
We can then all pretend that we are Checkpant Rs too and live it up on our tour and say “Socialized medicine is beautiful.” I am a Rep. in name only, and I just love Piglosi.
You better not show me Piglosi’s house. I might do something I would regret later.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/68947-reid-opposition-to-healthcare-vote-is-orwellian
HD,
Did Senator Levin just realize this???
Them, if you are extra nice, its off to the Country Club nearby.
RINO!!!!
RINO live in wild areas. We can be pretty devasting when attacked.
No chance at all on foot
Mama Grizzly make way for Mama Rhino!
“Landrieu said Friday that she would reveal her vote this morning. She appeared to be leaning toward voting yes in remarks yesterday.”
Now now, MD, I can show you where she shops, including the place where she is rumored to get her face lifts.
Pitch,
I only disagree with 3. Snowe and Collins will vote for triggers.
1. Engineer happy accidents at their one petrolum refinery and with their electrical grid.
2. Pay some creative individuals to “community organize” the persian resistance.
3. Cease all assets relating to it, and refuse to do business with anyone that doesn’t do the same.
4. If and when the star of david does what they need to do, do what ever is necessary to ensure a successful and effective outcome.
And then, we can cross the Bay on ship, and go to Oakland, and I can show you Moonbeam’s residence.
OK Tina – sorry. Has anyone told Knova that even liberal dems are seeing the obvious with Hasan?
178 – I saw your note about that yesterday, congrats!
If Snowe votes no today, I think she is hardening her position because she is afraid of a primary challenge. I believe she will vote no for anything to do with a public option.
190,
Now you are trying to upset me!!!!!
The very thought of Piglosi makes me ill.
The Rinos here at this site appear weak.
3… opps…seize
MD – what about Frankenstein?
Snowe wants a public option, she just doesn’t want to vote or pay for it.
IED ALERT~~~~~~~~~~
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
OK – have to go.
The only one who upsets me is Lieberman. On the one hand he speaks eloquently about how public option will bankrupt this countruy. If he really believes it, his primary duty is to kill any bill that has even a slight chance of getting a public option. Isdt should be his patriotic duty to vote no today and that will effectively kill this bill.
Even baby Rhinos are tough
Your quite the host Tina. Tina’s Tours™
Knighthawk, I am not good at reading Snowe’s mind; all I can gather is that she will not support a public option.
Yes Chek, Rhinos are tough and they are vegetarian; I suspect they are members of PETA.
You have Tina Tours and Tina Reports, more accurate than any other major polling firm in the industry, KH…
And for the final part of the tour, the gun collection…
Pitch, she doesn’t have too, she’ll support the lease purchase with a distant balloon payment option.
206 – Well of course, you have to save the best for last.
Tina’s Tours™
This is Tina on one of her Safari Tours. Tina is the one nervously saying “This is not funny”. She forgot her gun that day.
What does Tina Tours charge for a trip to Alcatraz?
Can’t be Peta members, PETA actually fights for their lunatic positions.
Yes Chek, Rhinos are tough and they are vegetarian; I suspect they are members of PETA.
We are environmentally sensitive.
About a $1.00, the same price that you can buy off a few Rinos these days.
Oh, please KH. What can the GOP do? They don’t have the votes. I don’t see the point of constantly ragging on them. Elections have consequences. They won. We lost. All the can do is make the case to the American people. Which they have. If you don’t want to listen to us RINOs, then listen to Palin. She is not critical of the GOP.
What does being a vegan or a member of PETA have to do with the “environment” ?
KH
Pamela Anderson is a member of PETA. You would join in a heartbeat to sleep with her.
Jeff Session’s is great but his ears do remind me of dumbo.
Well bye for now. Shout out to the HHRs – lets do a photo op next time.
What does being a vegan or a member of PETA have to do with the “environment” ?
When was the last time anything made sense about PETA?
Never liked her, but her video with Tommy showed off one hell of a body.
Later Tina.
#219 – A valid point.
Knighthawk, farms raising pigs and chicken emit a lot of carbon dioxide and are believed to a major cause of global warming. But as a dyed in the wool conservative, you did not read this from me.
214 – They can do what has already been stated.
The only one who upsets me is Lieberman.
He probably will say that he voted for people to have their say and then vote against the bill.
222 – So shouldn’t one want to eat those pigs and chickens to help the planet out then? Saving them does not seem “environmentally friendly” in that respect.
224 – He will play the I actually said I’d vote against it, before I voted for it, not quite up to Kerry’s example.
The argument should go, KH, not having those farms and rasiing those poor animals to slaughter them, saves the planet from all the CO2.
#225
Okay then. PETA is pro-life.
Judd Gregg is absolutely brilliant in his opening salvo. It makes Lieberman’s position of voting yes to give life to this monstrosity, morally bankrupt.
#226
I am sure that Lieberman will be more artful in explaining his vote than Kerry.
PETA is pro all animal life except the unborn human ones.
228 – Except for when they euthanize them.
#231
Wrong. PETA is pro-choice. If a animal wants an abortion, it will support its rights.
Thune is on.
1. The Dems get their 60. That is done.
2. Debate proceeds on the bill. Harry removes the pure public option but inserts triggers which will ensure a gov takeover within 5 to 7 years.
3. Mandates will be in the bill but the middle class and rich will pick up the tab for anyone making less than 75k or some other arbitrary number. Massive wealth redistribution.
4. Snowe and Collins will abandon ship and 1 other R will shock everyone. This will allow numerous Dems cover and it will pass with 51.
5. Hussein Chavez signs it before Christmas.
Comment by MD — November 21, 2009 @ 10:40 am
MD,
You’re SPOT on with this.
Snowe, Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu & Lincoln – they all support triggers.
btw as it related to HD’s earlier question I was indeed wrong, in the senate they must be present on the floor.
“A Proxy is a vote cast by one member for another who is absent.
The Senate allows proxy voting in committee but not on the floor”
How’s Byrd feeling today?
Like a grand wizard I hear.
Senator Dumbledore
Reid, as I understand, has removed reconciliation from the table. that was a big concern to me as he could attempt to ram it through.
I do believe that every democrat needs to pay a price for their vote tonight. Keep the pressure up. A vote to proceed is the same as a vote to pass the bill (technically not true but say it).
That being said a vote tonight to open debate does just that. The senate today operates under the concept of “Unamious Consent” which means McConnell and Reid agree as to how to proceed next. That’s it plan and simple. McConnell and Reid have to agree as to how the debate is and how many and what amendments get to be voted on.
McConnell and Reid have to agree. I will say one more time-McConnell and Reid have to agree on a schedule.
If McConnell and Reid do not agree Harry’s choice is proceed to a vote. Well Lieberman-Nelson-Lincoln-Bayh plus the 40 GOP senators will fillbuster an effort to proceed to a vote without debate or discussion or they will not vote for the bill in its in current form.
So Reid has to deal with McConnell.
Chill out os what I say for right now. McConnell will not meet with Reid on Sunday. Monday maybe-Tuesday the talking starts and then Wednesday is the start of Thanksgiving break.
There is a must pass Omnibus spending dateline of 12-18-2009 as only 5 of the 12 apporiations bill are passed. Plus there are taxes that expire on 12-31-2009.
At any point in time some GOP type can say “I want to talk today about the deficit for 12 hours”
Time folks is on our side. Reid cannot push this bill through right now so time is on our side.
I follow this line until and if votes start on 12-01-2009
McConnell hasn’t a viable testicle left with which to deal with reid.
At last, rdelbov, someone who sees it the way I do. Healthcre will do the democrats what Iraq war did to the repubs.
I’m off to the bookstore, later boys and girls.
Did you hear? The South Carolina legislature had decided to impeach Governor Mark Sanford later this month.
#244
Waste of time.
Yawn, wake me when the play is over. Say December 22nd at Hussein’s signing of the bill.
Is there a state opt-out in the senate bill?
He may sign it but i can promiae it won’t be this year.It won’t even get out of the senate this year. Then it has to be rewritten in conference – will take weeks….then votes on in each house again.
The longer this drags on the more crap gets exposed.
The hilarious thing is that some Democrats are actually telling themselves that they’ll get a big bumpin the polls when this gets passed.
Talk about being out of touch….
Landrieu is a yes according to NRO. Surprise!!
I need to learn to type.
Yes, the Louisiana whore was “torn and agonizing” until the end.
LOL
From PPP(D):
http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/5917183956
“Obama’s approval numbers in Wisc. don’t look so hot- was surprised but saw SUSA’s latest there had him at 47/47″
Back – Landrieu is a yes, and she will be voting for the final bill too, as predicted by many.
Does PPP(D) ever show good numbers for anybody besides low-profile politicians?
Obama is getting killed right now in the Midwest.
#255 All the blacks in his sample must be from the South. How else can we explain the Southern numbers in yesterday’s poll?
They also found Tommy Thompson not very popular.
Landrieu – I’m not a cheap whore she says, we’re all just very partisan republican bloggers according to her.
I didn’t sellout for 100 million, I sold out for 300 million she says.
Still at 49/44 in gallup
Marv, we really nailed this one.
Tommy, I know you’re on the payroll but do you honestly believe the book tour had anything to do with it?
So our last “hope” is Lincoln?
262? There is no hope.
Please stop. The hope bus left.
#260 Tommy_Boy
Roger that!!!! The fact that Gallup remained at 49-44 is significant. Frank also said that the RAS numbers have stabilized at about 47-52 for now (a new low average.)
#261 Did I not make such a prediction last week on numerous occasions as to Obama’s approval rating in the Gallup daily tracking poll?
All I know is that Obama has seen his worst week of polling since his inauguration in the same week of this tour. I seem to recall plenty of people claiming that the book tour would serve as a distraction from Obama’s missteps when that clearly hasn’t been the case.
#264 MDefl,
I hope that Air Force beats BYU today. I also hope that Army beats North Texas.
The only is that the implentation of this monstrousity will take so long that it can be reversed.
Where’s Wylie?
Does anyone still have doubts about TB being on the payroll?
Where is TimV?
I wonder if Rush bullied Gallup into it, hahahaha.
You guys are funny…
Holding out hope that a Dem will turn…
And then being shocked, yes SHOCKED, when they don’t…
Blue Dogs…Lap Dogs…Whatever…
They’re politicians…
I still think I found the moderate D willing to vote against the bill tonite….
Who?…
The fix has been in for some time, this latest is all smoke and BS for the amusement of the sheeple.
zell miller
There is an opt out provision in the Public option play of Reid. If the Obama adminstration can certify, by a certain date that certain conditions have been met, a state can opt out.
No one is fooled by this. The Opt-out provision of the public option bill would in essence force every state in.
Nelson and other moderates will introduce an “opt in” public option provision. If amendments are allowed.
I tell you folks-the key discussion will be scheduling.
Nelson and other moderates will introduce an “opt in” public option provision.
Will states be able to opt out of paying taxes too?
Hunter, I was just joking, I was laughing at the hope for the moderate D here.
I am throughly amused by the pickle the Democrat leadership have gotten their party into. Its amazingly without any foresight whatsoever. It will be taught in Poli Sci textbooks in the future as an example of how not to hold onto power.
The Republicans have played this brilliantly, have the barest of plans that has a couple of common sense items that most people will nod and say “yeah why isnt tort reform in the bill, or yeah why isnt buying across state lines in the bill” but otherwise let it all be about the Democrats. Let the Democrats act all dismissive of dissent, and even call their constituents derogatory names. Knowing how arrogant Democrats act, hold fire and let them have the rope necessary to hang themselves.
Sit back and watch, gather up the donations, put the great recruits in place and then absolutely slaughter the Democrats at the ballot box. Independents have left long enough now that they are probably not coming back anytime soon. Even some conservative Democrats are throwing up their hands in disgust.
Its all good. Why dont we have a roll call vote on the Senate floor on the weekend when it can be blasted out by cable news to everyone about how the Democrats are once again ignoring their constituents well expressed wishes? Love it.
Why dont we have a roll call vote on the Senate floor on the weekend when it can be blasted out by cable news to everyone about how the Democrats are once again ignoring their constituents well expressed wishes? —> Gary
This is exactly what I was thinking. Most of the reliable polls out there show that the public is satisfied with their own HC, and against the measures being put into the current HC Bill. But the dims continue to strut and posture as if they have stuffed their ears with Kleenex!
“We can’t hear the people, only our own little partisan brains talking to us! If it makes others as angry as it is making me, there will definitely be penalities to be paid later on!
GM
I truely deplore linking articles of the New York Times but sometimes they are the only ones who get it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/us/politics/22hill.html
Yes the GOP has stalled and fought every inch of the way through this difficult legislative year. A good example has been DC voting rights. I think its unconstitutional but the GOP attached an amendment to repeal all the gun control laws for DC. Since then nothing has happened. I am hopeful that we will win several senate seats in 2010. Its not a great cycle for us but even a seat or two could make a real difference. +4 would be massive. So every little delay is huge.
There’s a massive amount of confirmations, bills and other stuff to be done in the Senate. A good example is all these spending bills. The VA bill took three days to plow through last week. That’s more or less a whole senate week. There are seven more to come with Defense plus HELP (the old HEW) to come too.
McConnell only needs one indie or democrat to say “we need time to debate, discuss and improve” and healthcare is a January issue.
Timing, paperwork and schedules are so important. I might add that the Reid bill has been scored by CBO but not by CMS (part of HEW) for Medicare scoring. That could a reason for a delay.
Time folks we are running out of time for 2009
The GOP won, the bill is dead.
Let them debate, the GOP held all 40. No cover for Moderate Dems.
This will be sunk in December
#283. Huh?
Never in Senate History has a huge bill been enacted without any Bipartisan Support.
Reid cannot do it, he needs GOP cover
Brandon, Reid will get debate, but HC is dead.
This is fully Dem owned, and these moderates will need security over the Holidays.
I really don’t think Reid cares if he gets Republican support. They are just going to ram it through and we are just along for the ride.
Earl,
That’s a mis-read man.
Brandon, I am in my 60’s and have done Political work. Reid lost when the GOP united.
The Moderates are toast without GOP cover.
Rdel,
R’s will win big in 2010.
+8 in Senate, +60 in House, and +11 in governorships.
Dems have lost Ind’s very badly.
MD,
You are wrong. Even when LBJ had 65 Seats in 1965, he needed GOP support to pass Civil rights.
Earl,
They don’t care.
Sam,
Ditto
And there it is, Lincoln is a yes.
Earl,
That is because EVERY Dem Senator from the south was against the legislation. Apples and oranges.
Obama is not LBJ.
293 – Course we knew this already.
Does not matter Brandon.
Lincoln’s only choice is whether she loses in the primary or loses in the general election.
If you were her, which would you choose?
The only good news is that Lincoln just voted herself out of a job.
She will vote against the final bill but it won’t matter.
She will lose in the general.
Though she did leave open the possibility of trying to block a vote later if the public option is still in.
Brandon,
That is just part of the theatre. Trust me, those words were scripted a long time ago.
Where are the moderate Ds that were mentioned here at this site to block moving forward on the bill???
Sadly, the Rs came up with the wrong strategy on this one…
The Dems are running off a cliff. I honestly didn’t think such a large number of them would be willing to sacrifice their careerrs for this travesty. I was wrong.
That surprises you somehow, Tina?
There are a lot of Dems who are voting themselves out of a job, both in the House and the Senate.
Starting with Harry Reid.
all cheap theatre. worse than an old Jimmy Stewart movie watched over and over.
2010 will be an electoral earthquake. How will the GOP prevent this debacle from bearing its bitter fruit though?
No, Wes, surprised by how infantile the comments were at this blog about finding the phantom moderate D as well as not having a strategy – other than bending over.
Maine twins.
As I said months ago, Obama is perfectly willing to sacrifice Dem control of Congress and states to get Obamacare passed.y Re
But little Mitchy wants to go home for the break.
That is why the GOP needs a new Senate Leader, Tina. I’d say John Thune or my home state’s Richard Burr would be far better than McConnell, who has proved every time he’s been in a leadership position, he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing.
Put yourself in Obama’s shoes:
If the cost of passing Obamacare was losing Lincoln’s and Harry’s seats, how long would you hesitate?
Pass the popcorn, Obama and the generic vote will drop another point or two in pretty short order.
Tina,
Trust me: This Bill will get passed. Reid will come under pressure because of the Public Option and at some Point the Pressure will be so high that he’ll shave the PO and enact Triggers instead like the Senate Finance Committee Bill. Then all the Centrists will rally around him Lieberman & Snowe included.
We’ve lost this.
Just what are the Rs supposed to do when they are overwhelmed by the numbers?? Next time vote for the Rs and stop complaining when they are not pure as the driven conservative soul. Otherwise, this is what you get.
With 40 GOP senators the only real Republican alternative was a Constructive Republican Alternative Plan. That object was not taken as we are in an economic crisis and have a huge deficit.
McConnell and the House GOP are playing the only hand that the 2008 elections dealt them.
I predicted 60 and we are there. Scheduling a vote to get this turkey off the floor is next order of business. Byrd will be wheeled back to the house after this evening. Baucus is on the plane back to Montana where his Mother is very very ill. Three other democratic senators are on CODEL (congressional delegations to go overseas) duty early next week.
Reid has a major fundraiser scheduled 11-28-2009.
Senate will be back in action on 12-1-2009 or that is my guess
Putting pressure on the Dems back home would have been an effective strategy, I think, Rdel. Of course what the hell do I know?
“Not sure I can convince Sen. Lincoln to vote no – but will do everything in my pwr to convince my friends in Arkansas to vote against her.”
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/5926296333
Good soundbite from Palin, Brandon.
“Putting pressure on the Dems back home would have been an effective strategy, I think, Rdel. Of course what the hell do I know?”
Every one is looking at the polls, every one has seen the VA and NJ results. What more pressure can you put?
They don’t care. As I said, they are` playing in kamikaze mode. They know that this is their best chance for generations to fulfill their marxist agenda.
AR is a perfect state for Palin. Buh Bye Blanche!
299 – She’s out of a job now so she might as well vote for passage.
Are they running ads in Arkansas, Louisiana, and Nebraska detailing how a vote for this to go to the floor is effectively a vote for the bill, Sam? Do they have top-tier challengers lining up to say, “If you vote for this, I announce my candidacy”? Are they rallying the people at home the way they did with the tea parties over the summer? No. They’re saying, “We want to go home for Thanksgiving.” This is hardball politics for the future of the country, Sam, and since an inept Republican Party is the only possible way to stop it, those castrated fools had better man up and figure out a way to develop competence. THIS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO PASS.
You guys always criticize me for my endless Bushbashing, but the fact remains that had Bush been a better President, then the Dems would not be on the cusp of passing this travesty. Hence, my contention that the GOP needed different leadership then and definitely needs new–and better–leadership now.
#325:
There is no hardball politics for the future of the country.
All hardball politics is for politicians to gain power.
Reps are counting on bad economy and HC backlash to increase their own power.
Dems are counting on improving economy and HC takeover to increase their own power.
The GOP is probably in the better position of the two, Sam. Unfortunately if this abomination passes, they will have a hard time reversing its effects upon implementation.
It doesn’t go into effect until 2013. There’s 4 years to stop it.
Queue up the fat lady.
Exactly how will that be accomplished with Obama in the White House for all that time, Brandon?
“Are they running ads in Arkansas, Louisiana, and Nebraska detailing how a vote for this to go to the floor is effectively a vote for the bill, Sam?”
Is this a joke? Are you expecting the general public to care about procedural votes, to understand intricate senate rules?
You don’t seem to understand that people are moved by simple slogans, not by positions on procedural votes?
“Hope and Change” moves people.
“Death Panels” moves people.
Not budget resolutions and motions to commit.
Did Lieby already sell out or is he up last?
How about “A vote for this is a vote against you,” Sam? That would seem to be a strongly motivational slogan to me.
He probably already has, MD.
No there isn’t Brandon, taxing pieces of it take effect in 2010 I believe, budget for fy2011 will be passed prior to election day 2010. Unless you think the senate and house are going to flip in nov 2010 and the gop will grow some balls and not fund any of this in the fy budget for fy 2012 and 2013, and that’s assuming the Obumbler even signs such bills after hemming and hawing.
I appreciate the optimism though.
Oh, MD, my response to you from the previous thread:
7.Every year will not be 2010, MD. Since 2006, the CFG has proved it has no clue electability is a necessity for the candidates it backs. Till its learns this, the Harris, Sali, and Hoffman losses will be the norm rather than the exception.
Reid cannot do it, he needs GOP cover
Comment by Earl
He couldn’t care less.
The GOP isn’t going to give Reid cover. That doesn’t mean this abortion won’t pass though.
“A vote for this is a vote against you,”
Too bland.
This theme music’s been in my head all day.
Then you come up with a better one, Sam.
“but the fact remains that had Bush been a better President, then the Dems would not be on the cusp of passing this travesty.”
Spare me this drivel, it’s not about Bush, and of course the Democcrats have always wanted to socialize HX.
Stop the childish whining about Bush and start worrying about Obama.
I told everyone that Lieby would sell us out and 5 people on here told me I was wrong.
this has been in my head all day.
make that HC not HX, but it it could be nationalized they would go for HX too.
Obama as Vader to Deeds: “You’ve failed me for the last time.”
Obama as Vader to Reid: “Republicans do not concern me, Senator. I want that healthcare–not excuses.”
Wes,
you are now over the top.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bdQ7RQfCYG8/SQ-uolu58hI/AAAAAAAAAV0/RWvLDMe9S1M/s400/fatlady.jpg
If I read the bill right, every American that has a Cadillac plan is going to have their taxes raised by at least 4K (40% tax on plans that are at least 10K/year). I don’t think that will sit well with the middle class for the next 3-4 years.
Do they really think they can get this bill through without any consequences? If the 2010 elections are a wipeout for the dems then the Supreme Court is more likely to declare it unconstitutional and then the Dems don’t get the bill and have jumped off a cliff for no reason.
I’d rather kill it now than take a chance with the courts (i.e. campaign finance), but even if it passes the Dems are in a lot of trouble. They may have voted themselves into a permanent minority if things don’t play out perfectly for them.
You’re right, Jason. It is about Obama. Bush was the one who ensured Obama would be President though. As Santayana said, “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
OK – let’s lighten things up:
http://img2.baltgames.lv/v2/usergalleries/205334.jpg
Lieberman never promised to vote against opening debate. He promised to filibuster a bill with a public option. Let’s stick with the facts.
Cute, DQ.
This version might be more down to earth.
4 years to stop it?
Are you serious?
If Obama wins a second term he has the veto pen until 2016 – seriously, we’re gonna override with 2/3 vote in both houses? Come on.
Even if Obama is not reelected, Republicans will have 60 votes in the senate to break a Dem filibuster?
Once it’s in place it’s in place.
Aye aye aye, MD. Who is that?
MD – Careful she might poke your eyes out with those.
Good point, Phil.
For you, Knight:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/jenna%20haze/bloodylamer/bastardly-photos/0505/album55/jenna-haze-01160701.jpg
345 – Course, and they’ll yank it – or rename it, end debate,pass it (with him maybe even voting against it), then put it back in and then pass it again.
“Not a markets kind of guy, but how do you vote to destroy 1/6 of the economy and the stock market not come crashing down before Christmas ?
From the Dem POV, this is actually a perfect time for this vote: trading is usually light right before Thanksgiving.”
If it is a wipeout in 2010 and Obama goes down in 2012, all of a sudden Dems will start caring about their jobs. It’s like all the people running up debt, wasn’t a problem till the economy went bad and it started to affect people. The same will be with Congressional voting records, the D’s won’t see it as a problem until they start losing elections because of it.
Right now Dems are scared more of MoveOn than the general electorate. That will change approximately 1 year from now.
Wes, figures you’d find the only photo of me on the internet.
oops ignore the first part of my last comment, bad copy and paste.
“Bush was the one who ensured Obama would be President though”
Pure horsecrap. Bush won the two elections he participated in. He couldn’t win or lose for anyone else. He was not responsible for McCain being nominated, McCain’s campaign, McCain losing.
Clinton was popular and he couldn’t get Al Gore elected.
This broken record tripe about Bush this and Bush that doesn’t even get a rise at Daily Kos anymore, give it up here.
Oh, to answer Dave’s question at the beginning of the thread: Currently the only other possible serious GOP challenger to Dorgan is former Senator Ed Schaeffer, who like Hoeven declined a race in 2004. If Hoeven jumps in and knocks off Dorgan, then Schaeffer may well challenge Conrad–now viewed as potentially vulnerable because of scandal–in 2012.
It better change for their sake. Right now they are lying to themselves. I keep going back to every poll around showing indies.
Grab some popcorn and watch the show. Election night 2010 is gonna be beautiful.
Clinton couldn’t get Gore elected because of Nader. Bush was the GOP’s version of Woodrow Wilson this past cycle.
Are you saying that’s you staring lustfully at Ms Haze in the background, Knight?
Wes It could be, if I were bald.
I just want to ditto the focusing on Bush crap, but jason your gonna have to learn to just let it go Wes is never going to, but at least he’s down to only bringing it up once or so a day which probably requires great effort on his part as it is.
“Clinton couldn’t get Gore elected because of Nader. Bush was the GOP’s version of Woodrow Wilson this past cycle.”
Yeah, right, Nader kept Gore from winning his home state of Tennessee?
If popularity could be transferred Gore would have won easily. You have a very simplistic view of politics.
Bush served two terms. That was the limit. I think he was a fine President. You don’t. But Bush has zero to do with Obama’s HC bill just like he had nothing to do with Katrina.
Blame Bush is so passé. Find something else to whine about.
Nikki Benz – she stars in certain type of, uh, films.
I figured that, MD.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Nikki_Benz_2009.jpg
Benz can’t act for chit though.
She’s, um, well endowed, MD.
Lincoln a yes on healthcare. Enjoy your remaining year in the Senate, Blanche.
They all might as well pass cap&tax too.
That’s probably next on the agenda, Knight.
She’s Canadian:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/nikki%20benz/jeffcarey_photos/l_1a03f76d4da77c8f467475e02fcf31fd.jpg
I see no reason to hold that against her, MD.
National Review is Worthless. for weeks I took them for their word that this piece of Marxist Sh$t would not even be debated.
Wes, You are right about McConnell.
All is not lost, remember the amnesty vote a couple of years ago.
Many here thought it was a done deal, then the final vote went the other way, with many DEMS like Webb voting against it.
I know Intrade is a joke, but their contracts are still way low, even on a Spring passage on HC.
There are no moderate Democrats. ALL of them would vote for the public option in a second if they weren’t worried about consequences.
However, the vote tonight is not the end of the story. Pressure can still be brought on Landrieu, Nelson, Bayh, and Lincoln. Lieberman will filibuster the bill with a public option he is all in on that, whether he would accept triggers is another story.
The best scenario is that the bill would be watered down enough so the moonbats in the House would not agree to it. But in the end something will be signed and the only question is how bad will it be.
Cap and Tax and Amnesty. Bank on it.
I just noticed that Hoeven has a 93% favorable rating in this poll. Can we get him to run for President?
Wes. Lincoln might just retire.
That’s why they moved the debate to tonight, I think, Jason: With no swtichboards going, they can’t get the angry responses from their constituents they’d get otherwise.
No worries Levin’s on the case. lol
Just shoot me.
Md, were you here saying Amnesty was a done deal in 2007? Many here said it.
It is so easy to see how this plays out.
He would be a good President, Brandon. Thune would be my pick for the GOP nod in 2012 though.
#327
Completely agree. The stage for this travesty was set 11/2008.
Wes, Nelson and the rest are going to get pounded this Holiday at home.
No I didn’t. I said it wouldn’t pass in 07. Uh, congress is a little bit different now, wouldn’t you say?
Michigan has some great politicians up there: the Levin boys, Stabenow, Granholm, Conyers, pick a Mayor of Detroit, former Governors Blanchard and Milliken. The last time the state produced any national politicians who weren’t senile, socialist, jokes, or all three was the 1920s.
Nice to be that close:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wccc.com/data/photos/thumbs/1711.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wccc.com/gallery.php%3Fgallery%3D76&usg=__pxc3Z9KLYXT4B4dSo0SDGmteKKw=&h=150&w=100&sz=5&hl=en&start=62&tbnid=TgInsqJRrH9mnM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=64&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnikki%2Bbenz%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D60
We won the House tonight. We will have a strong filibuster in the Senate soon.
We will be in charge of Redistricting in 2012.
If we could just find A FUC$%NG way to get McConnell and the other Trust Fund Country Club Punks to stop this Stalinistic Crap.
I feel like Peter finch in Network
Jason, if I were a GOP officeholder in Nebraska, I’d be announcing my exploratory committee for 2012 Monday at noon.
Amnesty is even more radioactive then health-care, but yeah Wes they may go for the trifecta.
I’m jealous, MD.
I’m mad as Hell and I am not going to take it anymore!
There, I finished it for you.
Maybe the Catholic Bishops can get some redemption for backing this turkey in the House, and stop it
Anyone want to blow off some steam?
http://www.break.com/index/home-made-belt-fed-shotgun.html
Wes, what if Nelson and Lincoln were going to retire? They have no worry then
So let me try and understand this: if the senate votes to (a) even debate this travesty of a bill or god forbid (b) passes it, then that will result in (c)a one time massive loss for the Dems in 2010 but then (d) in every subsequent election, the public that would be responsible for (c) will come to either (d) love the socialism and/or (e)be so hooked on the government teet that republicans will never be able to wing another election??????
Is that really what we are talking about?
Your kidding me right?
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wccc.com/data/photos/thumbs/1711.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wccc.com/gallery.php%3Fgallery%3D76&usg=__pxc3Z9KLYXT4B4dSo0SDGmteKKw=&h=150&w=100&sz=5&hl=en&start=62&tbnid=TgInsqJRrH9mnM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=64&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnikki%2Bbenz%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D60
and btw, don’t be so worried about massive tax increases. You only have to pay them in US Dollars.
Obama is turning into one of Despots in Eastern Europe circa 1989 Wes.
Zell Miller
Anyone want to try this? That’s one hell of a ride.
HT:RWY-BGJ
At this point, I’m beginning to think the GOP may actually have an increasing shot at retaking the Senate in 2012. Dems are down already in CT, DE, NY, AR, IL, CO, PA, NV, and ND if the rumors about Hoeven are true. These neverending overreaches by the Dem Congress could also work to propel top-tier Republicans into races in WA, WI, and VT while giving Carly a leg up over Boxer in CA.. If that happens, it’s game over for Dems in the Senate next year.
That was such a great speech.
Dylan, go read the papers from 1965. Civil rights would produce a permanent Majority for the Democrats.
The Dems lost 47 House seats in 1966, Lbj retired, and Nixon won in 1968 and a 49 State Landslide in 1972.
The democrats are doing to healthcare what Bush and his cronies did to Iraq. They are going against the will of the people and are on a suicide march. They will be turned out next year.
Wes,
They don’t care.
Yes, Wes, but that would be a one time victory because if HC passes, Republicans will “eventually” never win elections ever again. you buying that?
Does anyone know if a Republican whose name is not synonymous with Dufus is considering looking at a challenge to Bayh with all this going on at this point?
Dylan,
I am not buying that but the R’s will have to work in the framework of a socialistic society.
Agreed, Pitch.
Jason T–oh, I agree, however the sentiment on this blog is that “this time it is different” and that health care is “the opiate of the electorate” that unlike previous porkulous will so intoxicate the electorate that Dems will have a permanent majority (sort of like what the PRI had in Mexico for a century)
416 – Sounds like something pinch might say on RedEye.
New thread above.
MD–at some point, states will have to opt out of this pablum because there will simply not be jobs added with this type of punitive anti-business vice being placed on them. In that sense, some of this crap has to be reversible or defunded or something
The soaring taxes, decreased quality of the healthcare, and souring economy may actually cause this to backfire on them, Dylan.
The argument that republicans will never win again if HC passes is nonssense. This crap is built on taxes, mandates and cutting Medicare. That translates into pissing off small business, pissing off people and above all, pissing off elders. When it kicks in, there will be demand to repeal it. Remember 80 to 85% fo the population like what they have but want relief with costs. When costs go up and quality comes down, you end up with only losers and illegal aliens as your voting bloc.
Dylan, many here are intelligent reactionaries who are pissed off right now. I want blood too, but I have realized that there be no public option, no triggers, no fines or jail, and no abortion funding.
Many here will call me naive, but the war starts tonight. After debate starts, Democrats will go this week and get pounded by their voters ina ll states except the Northeast.
Reid will never 60 again unless he ammends the big stuff, and the liberals will balk.
I feel good
Anyone want to try this? That’s one hell of a ride.
HT:RWY-BGJ
But it was faked
We already know it was faked, DQ.
Pitch, I am very optimistic right now.
Obama is at 33% with Seniors, a Death Knell.
Marxist Gallup has him at 49%
Lincoln said on the floor today, she wants no option or trigger
Reid cannot go nuclear, that is the deal he made with Ben Nelson
Every day this is debated, the more public opinion will swing even farther.
Wasn’t the point!!
I was here that fateful day in 2007 when amnesty was supposed to pass because Bush and many GOP traitors along with Liberal Dems were going to ram it thru.
They only needed 50 votes on a final vote, and this board was depressed like they are now.
Well, what happened? Many Yea Dem Votes became NO’s.
It went down in flames. The Senate was 51 to 49 DEM at the time and over 20 GOP rats voted for it.
To quote an American Hero, “I have not yet begun to fight.”
Right Charles. Many great posters here, but many defeatists.
Reid gets to debate, big Deal. He would have went Nuclear if not for Ben Nelson.
This board with MD and Chekote waiving white flags is like 1942 Phillipines.
Many at Freerepublic are calling for Civil War. Thinks that Wall Street will hit 1929 Levels, and they Obama wants a depression so he can call Martial Law.
All over a Debate Vote???
By putting the abortion funding in, Reid made a huge mistake. Lots and lots of Catholics normally vote Democrat and think nothing about it. At least a few will have their eyes opened by the Bishops pounding on this like I have never seen.
I think this makes it quite possible that the Democrat caucus checkmates itself over must haves and cant haves on the issue that was suppose to be the killer issue for Republicans. If you cant see the irony in that, you need some serious anger management classes.
And they can just do a voice vote and put this behind them, they are going to have to fight tooth nail and thumb poke, with the backfires being set to cause them to head right into the next loser issue. Keep voting down popular amendment after popular amendment.
Go home for Thanksgiving and again for Christmas and get damn near assaulted by more than pissed off constituents.
They will be asking to be waterboarded, as it seems less stressful! Could not happen to a finer bunch of clowns. And I should now apologize to all the fine clowns in this country.
make that CANT just do a voice vote, we need a preview function!
Gary I agree, do not bite my head off, but this would be the time for the Church to step up and make this Bill DOA.
We have argued about the House vote, and you were right. Now is the time for this madness to be stopped, and we need the Church
Gary, this week, i think Nelson, Landreiu and Lincoln will be possible in harm’s way. We have to hope that does not happen.