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Open Thread Wednesday

Back later….

Posted by Dave at 7:44 am
Filed under: General | Comments (128)

128 Responses to “Open Thread Wednesday”

  1. rdelbov says:

    Not sure what’s on tap for HC today. Lots of big budget showdowns in the house plus other big house votes today and tommorrow??

    The senate, of course, is just grinding along.

  2. Hellbelly says:

    rdelbov,

    You have become the Polaris of HCR.

    Thanks for the yeoman’s efforts.

  3. Phil says:

    rdelbov – I’d like to add my voice to Hellbelly’s. Excellent work. I look forward to all your updates and inside baseball on the bill. Otherwise, all we’d have are AP headlines telling us what Harry Reid wants us to hear.

  4. Phil says:

    God, make it stop.

  5. Phil says:

    RAS Gov of Fla

    McCollum 44
    Sink 39

    McCollum leads indies by over 2 to 1. The pattern continues.

  6. Brandon says:

    Beat me to it Phil.

  7. Chekote says:

    #8

    This is going to be another NY 23. The Dems will win because the GOP vote splits.

  8. Brandon says:

    #12. Just like McCain won because of the PUMA’s?

  9. Bunu says:

    Rand Paul Tea Party money bomb today.

  10. Phil says:

    There will be three candidates on the ballot in November?

    Uh, no.

  11. Chekote says:

    #13

    I forgot about the PUMAs. I remember a poster at the other site saying that there was no way that Obama could win Ohio because of the PUMAs. People never learn.

  12. Bunu says:

    #12 Chekote

    Rubio may be another Mel MArtinez on immigration. It’s good that the race is close so that they will have to fight for votes.

  13. Howard Dean says:

    15.

    There will be three candidates on the ballot in November?

    Uh, no.

    Comment by Phil — December 16, 2009 @ 9:15 am

    The RINO’s are scared, Phil.

    Expect them to say anything.

  14. Chekote says:

    #14

    Why is he doing money bombs? He is running for anything? The guy is becoming another Alan Keyes.

  15. Chekote says:

    #15

    Crist gets Jewish votes. Rubio will not. He is too hard core SoCon for them. How many times do we have to learn this lesson?

  16. Bunu says:

    Chris Johnson and Alan Keyes are following him around the state bashing Rand Paul.

    Someone is paying Keyes to so do it.

  17. Brandon says:

    #19. Uh, Rand Paul is running for Senate in Kentucky. I think you’re confusing him with Ron Paul.

  18. Chekote says:

    #22

    Oh yeah. I forgot.

  19. Chekote says:

    Keyes is a disgrace. He takes advantage of deeply religious people. He no better than Jim Bakker and other con-evangelists.

  20. GPO says:

    This is going to be another NY 23. The Dems will win because the GOP vote splits.

    Comment by Chekote — December 16, 2009 @ 9:11 am

    You truly believe Meeks can win in Florida? However far right you think Rubio is, Meek is much further left. Winner R primary wins easily

  21. Bunu says:

    #23

    And of course Alan Keyes never did money bombs or tea parties. Chekote just likes to make wild connections that serve her purpose.

  22. Knowing of your interest in the ongoing debate in Congress over health care reform, I wanted to update you on a number of votes and positions that I have taken during the process.

    Together with 60 of my colleagues, I voted in favor of proceeding to debate the proposed health care reform legislation. I have yet to decide whether I will support final passage of the bill.
    I have stated on several occasions my concerns that the Obama administration should have begun the health care process with a clear, detailed proposal, from which legislation could then be put into place. Instead, the legislation now before the Congress is the product of five separate congressional committees, three in the House and two in the Senate. I and my staff have carefully worked through thousands of pages of sometimes contradictory information, and have done our best to bring focus to the debate and clarity to any final product.

    Our country needs health care reform. While a strong percentage of Americans are satisfied with their health care, the system is not working for millions of others. Spiraling costs for health care also have placed our biggest industries at a severe competitive disadvantage worldwide, and have become unsustainable for many small businesses.

    But true reform must be done in an effective and responsible fashion, without creating a cumbersome, overly-bureaucratic system. The bottom line should be to achieve a more cost-effective health care system that increases accessibility, affordability, and quality of care, and which does not burden our economy along the way.
    The process also requires openness, so that the American people understand exactly what is being debated. At the start of this debate I was one of eight Senators who called on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to post the text and complete budget scores of the health care bill on a public website for review at least 72 hours prior to both the first vote and final passage. This request was agreed to, affording proper transparency in the process.

    Over the past few weeks, I have taken a number of difficult votes. As with every other issue since I came to the Senate I have voted my conscience throughout this process. I have broken with my party six times, including four votes to send the current legislation back to committee for a more thorough review. I voted five times against proposed cuts to Medicare due to my concerns about taking half a trillion dollars out of that system at a time when the pool for Medicare is about to expand with the retirement of those in the Baby Boom generation. I am a long-time supporter of Medicare Advantage programs which have, in my view, improved services in rural areas of Virginia, and I did not want to see cuts to benefits or services.
    On the issue of abortion, I studied the bill closely to ensure that no taxpayer dollars will be used to fund abortions. I am convinced that this legislation strictly adheres to the requirements of the Hyde Amendment. It also includes clear conscience provisions for providers and consumers who elect to reject a plan that offers such coverage.

    Since drug prices in the U.S. have risen dramatically in recent years a 9% jump in 2009 alone. I have cosponsored an amendment to lower prescription drug costs. The measure would allow Americans to safely import lower-priced, Food and Drug Administration-approved drugs from other approved countries, and save the federal government nearly $20 billion over the next ten years.

    In summary, I have been working actively to improve the health care reform bill for the good of our country and without bowing to party politics. As we continue to debate the bill and amend it, I remain hopeful that the Senate can reach consensus on fair and effective health care legislation. Whether this is so will determine my vote on final passage.

    As the Senate continues to debate health care reform, please be assured that your views will be very helpful to me and my staff. I hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with us in the years ahead.

    Thank you again for your interest in this important matter.
    Sincerely,

    Jim Webb
    United States Senator

  23. Bunu says:

    RandPaulGraphs. He’s raised about 50 thousand so far. That’s pretty good.

  24. Chekote2 says:

    WHERE IS MY 5TH HUSBAND??????????

  25. AlN says:

    I agree that Alan Keyes is NOT a disgrace. He’s a strongly principled man with a lot of good ideas. But he’s one who’s having a hard time finding a place where he can win. Chekote, don’t just call anyone you disagree with a “disgrace”.

    What Keyes is doing now is great — ripping up Rand Paul. In case you don’t know, Rand is the son of ultra-goofy Ron Paul.

  26. Howard Dean says:

    Barone:

    But it’s interesting that when Massachusetts Democrat Michael Capuano, fresh from a second-place finish in the primary for Edward Kennedy’s Senate seat, was asked to tell the Democratic caucus what he had learned on the campaign trail, he replied in two words: “You’re screwed.” How many of those listening decided that it would be a good idea to spend more time with the family after 2010?

  27. Chekote2 says:

    HOWARD,

    ARE YOU MARRIED????

    ;-)

  28. Chekote says:

    #25

    Obama won Florida. Is Meeks more lefty than Obama? I don’t think so.

  29. Howard Dean says:

    #

    HOWARD,

    ARE YOU MARRIED????

    ;-)

    Comment by Chekote2 — December 16, 2009 @ 9:35 am

    LOL!

  30. Phil says:

    RAS

    45/54

    -12

    A strongly approve outlier disappeared this today which helped Obama’s strongly approve number to SKYROCKET to 28%. Strongly Disapprove remains at 40%.

  31. Chekote says:

    AIN

    Keyes is on a permanent campaign for POTUS so that he can solicit contributions from good people. He lives off those contributions instead of getting a real job. I think that’s a disgrace. Keyes knows he has not chance of EVER winning the White House. He is just taking advantage of people like a con-evangelist.

  32. Chekote says:

    Bunu

    I got confused. I thought the money bomb was for Ron Paul. BTW, what did Ron Paul do will all the money he raised when running for POTUS? He certainly didn’t spend them on advertising. So what happened?

  33. Phil says:

    Is Meeks more lefty than Obama?

    No. He just can’t hide it as well. He has a long, long list of congressional votes. Also, he voted for cap and trade and worse, Obamacare which is death in Florida.

  34. Waingro says:

    #34: It’s Meek not Meeks. And comparing Meek to Obama is beyond laughable as much as I can’t stand the guy.

  35. Howard Dean says:

    Israel: Iran on Brink of Atomic Bomb Capability

    Wednesday, December 16, 2009

    JERUSALEM — Iran is close to a “technological breakthrough” that would enable it to build nuclear weapons, Israel’s military intelligence chief said in a rare public assessment Tuesday.

  36. Chekote says:

    #27

    Good statement.

  37. Phil says:

    The Israeli bombers are warming up on the runway as we speak.

  38. GPO says:

    Obama won Florida. Is Meeks more lefty than Obama? I don’t think so.

    Comment by Chekote — December 16, 2009 @ 9:36 am

    As left as Obama for sure. You are aware that the political enviornment is a tad bit different no?

  39. Chekote says:

    Look, I thought that Obama was too left leaning for the American electorate who – we are told – is right of center. Yet he won. I would not be so sure that Meek can’t win Florida which is a swing state. Crist has demonstrated that he can win Florida TWICE. Rubio is young, unknown, he can easily be portrayed as a right wing nut by the MSM much like it was done to Palin.

  40. Chekote says:

    #44

    Is not that easy. This is not a question of hitting one target as it was with Saddam.

  41. GPO says:

    Chek- agree to disagree- Crist might win by more, but neither would be close.

  42. Right of Atilla says:

    Meeks represents a congressional district that is roughly 60% black and 15% Hispanic. He has never been opposed in three races for congress. Meeks took over the district when his mom retired.

    The Florida Senate race has nothing to do with NY-23. Rubio is a far more attractive candidate than Hoffman and he will be running as a Republican, not representing a third party. There was no primary in NY23.

    I’ll drop by later when hopefully Chekote and Acroso are gone and intelligent conversation is once again possible.

  43. Phil says:

    The MSM tried that “right wing nut” stuff in Virginia.

    How did that work out?

  44. Chekote says:

    You are aware that the political enviornment is a tad bit different no?

    True. But why take chances? Is not like the GOP has states and states where it is competitive. We need seat. At least 45 to stop Obama. What is so great about Rubio? Yes, Crist made a mistake in embrancing Obama. As far as taking the stimulus money, I don’t like it but I do understand that if he didn’t take his share, another state would. There are no perfect candidates and what’s more important to me is that we get the seats to stop Obama for the next two years.

  45. Bunu says:

    #38

    He spent it on the presidential election of course. Ron Paul raised 35 million during the campaign.

    Guiliani raised 100 million, and got even less for it.

  46. Chekote says:

    #49

    Why don’t you just admit that you don’t want conversation? You want an echo chamber so that you feel validated. As far as intelligent comments, all I see from you is parroting for talking points you hear on conservative talk shows, sites. It doesn’t take a lot of brains to hit the “Replay” button.

  47. Phil says:

    Crist didn’t make a mistake. He knew what he was doing when he embraced Obama. He did so when Obama was basking in the glow of his first month in office and thought he’d hitch a ride on Barry’s popularity.

    Well, now Barry’s not so popular. It’s Charlie in the ass now.

  48. Chekote says:

    How did that work out?

    McDonnell was a known quantity. He held state wide office. That’s why it didn’t work. Also, he had a lot of women including an AA businesswoman supporting him and shielding him from his own thesis. Rubio has never won state wide office.

  49. Howard Dean says:

    Comment by Right of Atilla — December 16, 2009 @ 9:46 am

    Spot on.

  50. Phil says:

    If you disagree with Chekote you are “parroting” right wing talking points from talk radio.

    How insulting. I guess only Chek is smart enough to think for herself.

  51. Chekote2 says:

    I LOVE MY UTERUS!!!

    I HATE MY EX-HUSBANDS!!!!

  52. Chekote2 says:

    PHIL,

    WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE MY HUSBAND?????

    ;-)

  53. Chekote says:

    #52

    Making the rounds. And of course we can count on conservative talk shows hosts saying that Obama doesn’t care about the troops and he just using them as photo props. They fall for Obama’s traps everytime.

  54. Chekote says:

    #58

    Phil

    Some people do that. Not all.

  55. Chekote says:

    #55

    Crist is in a swing state. He can’t be hardcore anything.

  56. Chekote2 says:

    PHIL,

    WILL YOU MARRY ME????

  57. Chekote2 says:

    PHIL,

    YOU HAVE TO MARRY MY UTERUS TOO!!!

  58. Chekote2 says:

    ANSWER ME PHIL!!!!!

  59. Brandon says:

    Annoying.

  60. Chekote2 says:

    WHO WANTS TO MARRY ME???

    (women considered too)

  61. Chekote2 says:

    BRANDON!

    WILL YOU MARRY ME????????

  62. Chekote says:

    #67

    Cut Eph some slack. He must be bored out of his mind at the other blog.

  63. BayernFan says:

    “We’re all being urged to vote for something and we don’t know the details of what’s in it.”
    Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.
    December 15, 2009

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/80703.html

  64. Tim says:

    Okay. I leave and go to work. I then come back, and there are several marriage proposals.

    I need a drink of bourbon…

  65. Tina says:

    Crist hugging of the Obumbler is a turn off to many primary voters, I would guess. However, the economy in FL has really tanked. He gets the blame for it. I have written that here for months.

    In any event, lets have a fair primary and not a selection like in NY. Anyone of the two can beat Meeks.

  66. david says:

    It appears the
    “rescue” polls are much of a rescue amymore for Obama (E.g. ABC News)

  67. Waingro says:

    The only potential problem I see for Rubio is if Crist follows the advice of the Kos King and switches or runs as an indie. I think he would better served to pack it in, support Rubio, and go after Nelson in 2012.

  68. Waingro says:

    Btw, Ras said he is going to release a GE poll of FL-Senate race sometime this morning. I guarantee that both Rubio AND Crist are way ahead.

  69. Brandon says:

    The Senate poll is out at 5 PM tonight.

  70. Waingro says:

    Oh really? My bad. Either way, I can’t wait to see it.

  71. Bunu says:

    By 2 PM Eastern, Rand will probably have raised about 100,000K raised for the day.,

  72. Phil says:

    What a waste of 100 grand.

  73. Brandon says:

    #79. Your dear leader just voted against sanctions for Iran.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/15/house-votes-impose-sanctions-iran/

  74. AlN says:

    As to Rubio/Crist, I would (if I lived in Florida) probably lean towards Rubio, as I likely agree with his positions more. Plus, I like the idea of pushing Hispanic conservatives forward. But if the Rubio supporters go to far in their divisive “He’s a RINO” silliness, I would switch to Crist. Either way, during one of the Crist/Rubio debates, the challenge should be made to both of them to PLEDGE to support the other — if they lose the primary. If either of them fails to make this pledge, then Republicans ought to en masse switch to the other candidate. What we do NOT need is another NY23, where Republicans are splitting their vote.

  75. Phil says:

    Lockerbie bomber disappears from hospitol.

    You can’t make this crap up.

  76. Phil says:

    hospital

    I can’t spell

  77. Waingro says:

    #82, Agreed. The problem will be is if Crist drops out of Republican primary BEFORE the debates and puts all his chips into a Dem or Indie run. If he does that and loses (which I think he would), his political career is over. If he or Rubio graciously bow out during primary, they can both regroup for a run in 2012.

  78. Brandon says:

    North Carolina Senate(PPP)

    Burr(R): 42%
    Marshall(D): 37%

    Burr(R): 43%
    Lewis(D): 37%

    Burr(R): 45%
    Cunningham(D): 36%

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_NC_1216.pdf

  79. Brandon says:

    North Carolina Senate(PPP)

    Burr(R): 42%
    Marshall(D): 37%

    Burr(R): 43%
    Lewis(D): 37%

    Burr(R): 45%
    Cunningham(D): 36%

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_NC_1216.pdf

  80. Bunu says:

    If Crist wants to switch to Democrat wouldn’t it be better he do it now rather than in say 10 years from now?

  81. Gary Maxwell says:

    What a waste of 100 grand.

    I could not have said it better.

  82. Bunu says:

    Chekote,

    Your two favorites on the Morning Joe show today: Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan.

  83. Hellbelly says:

    re: 90 – not if he gives cover to Dems on HCR.

  84. Gary Maxwell says:

    Lieberman is sending a message, dont mess with me or my committee chairmanship or my state. No Chicago style gutter politics like they tried on Ben Nelson is going to work. It will just make him more calcified in his position.

  85. Howard Dean says:

    Comment by phoenixrisen — December 16, 2009 @ 10:59 am

    Not if he votes for HCR.

    He won’t survive a primary challenge.

  86. Chekote says:

    Anyone of the two can beat Meeks.

    I would not be so sure.

  87. Howard Dean says:

    Drudge is pushing the new rubio poll.

    heh

    Buh bye, Orange one!

  88. Chekote says:

    #91

    Pat Buchanan should have been fired a long time ago.

  89. Chekote says:

    #81

    I think Ron Paul doesn’t realize that there is a “Yes” button.

  90. Brutus says:

    #90

    Why not switch now and cut the suspense.

    As for the HMIC, which TV special won’t he be on? I hear Alvin and the Chipmunks were dissed because they don’t follow ASPCA rules for animal working hours.

  91. Chekote says:

    #90

    We need to get Lieberman’s in our tent. That’s the only way we can be competitive in NE again.

  92. Chekote says:

    Sorry, I mean Liebermans

  93. Waingro says:

    #95, bank on it. Repubs are going to get more seniors than ever before in 2010 given the HC debacle, and Florida has more that their fair share to say the least. Meek is going to get trounced.

  94. Apologetic California says:

    Only in this comment thread where the former Speaker of the Florida legislature is compared to Doug Hoffman. Unbelievable.

  95. Hellbelly says:

    re: 99

    Well, we know which Christmas show the Senate will appear on:
    Rudolph…since our Senators seem to come from “The Land of Misfit Toys”!

  96. Waingro says:

    #100, I do agree with Chek on this one. If Lieberman wants to run as a Repub in 2012, I hope the Repub establishment lays off.

  97. Phil says:

    “Republicans are going to get more seniors than ever before in 201 given the 2010 debacle”

    BINGO. We have a winner. No group votes in a greater percentage in off year elections than seniors.

    Delicious.

  98. Phil says:

    2010, healthcare debacle.

    I can’t spell & I can’t type either.

  99. Bunu says:

    Chekote,

    Why do you say that Pat Buchanan should have been fired from MSNBC?

  100. Charles says:

    this is the fallout from the sunrail cramdown that crist championed. mccollum may not survive docke ry’s challenge though.

  101. rdelbov says:

    Some of our liberal friends have noticed that Obama has not provided much leadership on HC. Sure he hugs the cameras and gabs to meetings. One on one is where HC should have been sold in the house and senate.

    In attention Obama has been in favor and 100% supportive and every single HC plan. What exactly is his view of HC? Does he just want to sign something??

    The liberals are correct to note that supporting everything means that when you are forced to settle for something it will be much less then what you wanted in the 1st place.

  102. Tommy_Boy says:

    hahahahah Chekote2

  103. BayernFan says:

    Let’s not underestimate the effect that Obama’s declining public approval ratings are having. He has, I believe, really lost a lot of clout and power. Senators are not activists or radical House members. They have a lot of power and pull in their respective states. They, generally, feel that they will be around long after the current WH occupant leaves. In this case, Obama’s honeymoon is more than over. They have no incentive to hitch their wagons to an unpopular President on an unpopular bill written and shepherded by unpopulare politicians. I am thinking, of course, of the likes of Nelson, Bayh, et al.

  104. Jan says:

    In response to rdelbov’s post about what Obama wants from HC. I think all he wants is the glory, in historical references, that HE was the president to finally get some kind of universal HC though! It’s not about making our country better…it’s all about the creation and cultivation of a legacy and his own image.

    I continue to be awe-struck, though, by the inherent weakness in congress, both dim and republicans, to not see through this incapable leader that was inappropriately elected to this high office. If we had stronger men and women in Congress, people who really represented the people, they would be able to compensate for Obama’s lack of and/or errors of judgment by expeditiously voting down such toxic measures.

    Instead we have what amounts to Congressional “Theater,” which has most people I know unhinged in wondering what life is going to look like if all these things are passed by these numbnuts!

  105. Chekote says:

    What if Crist switches to Dem? He will become the next Dem Senator from Florida. Is this what “conservatives” want?

  106. Brutus says:

    #110

    Right on the number.

    If O’men can sign anything he can say “Mission Accomplished” or words that can be spun in that direction.

  107. D QUIXOTE says:

    If he switches it would mean he was a fraud from day one.We need no more spectors.

  108. Chekote says:

    #116

    Sure. Let’s keep shrinking into oblivion.

  109. GPO says:

    What if Crist switches to Dem? He will become the next Dem Senator from Florida. Is this what “conservatives” want?

    Comment by Chekote — December 16, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

    How could you vote for someone that might think that way. If that is even an option I want him no elected position. Do u think there is a chance in hell Rubio would do that – of course not.

  110. Phil says:

    “When Crist switches to Dem”

    What does that tell you about Crist? Duh! Not much of a Republican is he. Maybe that’s why most of us aren’t to crazy about him in the first place. You think?

  111. D QUIXOTE says:

    Better to smoke out the traitors now,than later, when we really need him, hannible spector anyone??

  112. Chekote says:

    Hey Phil!

    What we need now is people who will caucus with us so that we can control the agenda. Why is that so hard for you to figure out. Having 35 pure conservative senators in the Congress is a waste of time. But I am sure that the self-righteous people around here will feel good about themselves while the country goes to the dogs.

  113. Chekote says:

    #118

    We need SEATS, SEATS, SEATS. That is if you guys want to stop Obama in the next two years. If you just want to sit around and feel good about your philosophical purity. Well, that’s another story…..

  114. Tim V says:

    I’m in favor of shriking the party by one. Guess who ?

  115. Chekote says:

    #123

    Sarah Palin. At least, that’s my choice.

  116. Jan says:

    What’s the fuss all about regarding Crist and Rubio? So there are two popular people running for the GOP nomination in Florida! So what!

    Isn’t that what the nomination process is all about — weeding out the best possible candidate, according to the people of that state!

    In NY23, the candidate was chosen by a committee, not by the people, which is where the process was tainted. So, comparing Florida with NY23 is an apples to oranges comparison!

  117. dch says:

    I don’t know if anyone has talked about this yet. Senator Coburn is making them read the full text for a bill being proposed by the socialist Sanders-that just took 2 days off the calendar. he has said he will do the same for the full 2000 page bill. A republican with balls-Thank God.

  118. Tim V says:

    124.#123

    Sarah Palin. At least, that’s my choice.

    Comment by Chekote

    LOL

  119. Jan says:

    Coburn has said all along that he would read the bill. He just didn’t say exactly “when” this would be done. Now seems like a true obstruction time, with the clock running out on the dim’s ability to get their chickens (dims) together for passage.