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Afternoon Open Thread359 Responses to “Afternoon Open Thread” |
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First.
Kos apparently has Campbell within 4 of Boxer in the Research 2000 poll, but I can’t find a proper link to it. Here is a copy/paste:
Republican primary
Tom Campbell (R) 33
Carly Fiorina (R) 24
Chuck DeVore (R) 7
General election
Barbara Boxer (D) 47
Tom Campbell (R) 43
Barbara Boxer (D) 49 (52)
Carly Fiorina (R) 40 (31)
Barbara Boxer (D) 49 (53)
Chuck DeVore (R) 39 (29)
Favorable/Unfavorable
Boxer (D) 50/45 (49/43)
Campbell (R) 46/37 (38/29)
Fiorina (R) 35/43 (22/29)
DeVore (R) 34/42 (21/27)
Funny; Field found Boxer’s reelect number at 43 for, 44 against. Gotta love the Kossack.
Has her favourable ever been at 50%? I can’t recall the last time a reliable polling outfit had her actualy favourable (and not re-elect) number that high. No one likes her; they just vote for her out of rote habit.
From below:
Well, unless old man Buffett was some kind of horse’s arse (which I don’t think he was), he was royally screwed by the party and had every right to turn his back on them. I am a practical man, and when making deals, honour them. If he was promised the seat or at least the opportunity to run, he should have had it. Hell, I’d let Crist have a shot at Nelson in ‘12 if he’d step aside now. Farm states stuck too long to that mantra of having geographically diverse senators (I suppose that extends to other states as well; CA in particular until the two Yentas came along).
‘Sweetheart’ Deals Still on the Table as House Deadline for Health Care Vote Slides
FOXNews.com
The White House is pushing to strip out a number of “sweetheart” deals in the Senate bill as Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that Democrats are unlikely to make the March 18 deadline set by President Obama for passage, an indication the House speaker doesn’t have the votes to pass it.
Trickle:
Conde Nast Scoop: HUD next O’Keefe Video Sting Target…
Drudge
I thought O’Keefe was in legal trouble?
WHIP COUNT: House Democrats’ positions on the healthcare reform bill
By The Hill staff – 03/09/10 12:56 PM ET
The Hill’s survey/tracking of House Democrats’ positions on healthcare reform legislation.
UPDATED: 3/11/10 at 10:45 a.m.
Wes; I’m going with Arthur Vandenburg and James Couzens. The latter may have only avoided deafeat because he died before his term expired, though. 1936 was a wipeout.
#8, Jan. Good ,link. But I’m too lazy to add up the numbers. What’s the official prognostication of yes and no votes?
Couzens was defeated in the primary, though.
Anyone know why Rush calls Joy Behar, “Maude”? It makes me laugh regardless.
Buffett’s dad could be best described as an old fashioned Taft republican. In another time you would be described as a Chicago trib-midwestern conservative who a bit leery of foreign interventions.
Ironically Senators Curtis and Hruska were mere carbon copies. Roman H. , to be honest, was a bit of a pompous something or other.
often the ability to slap backs and kiss babies can move a politician ahead faster then being a big brain.
Ambitious people being at the right place at the right time.
rdelbov,
Sitrep on fate of Obamacare in the House please.
Waingro, my guess is that he’s referring to Bea Arthur’s TV character from the late 60s/early 70s. “Maude,” as played by Arthur, was a total lib and quite shrill as I recall. Conrad Bain (the father from “Diff’rent Strokes”) played her conservative foil. Not a bad show, actually.
#15, Ha no wonder I had no clue–way before my time. Hilarious either way.
12
Reference to the old TV show with Bea Arthur, I suspect. The title character in “Maude” was an old liberal battleax.
Correct, George.
John Thune’s petition to say no to reconciliation:
http://www.johnthune.com/say-no-to-reconciliation/
Minnesota’s chief justice to leave the bench
Two years after his appointment, Minnesota Supreme Court Chief Justice Eric Magnuson announced he will leave the court effective June 30.
By RACHEL E. STASSEN-BERGER, Star Tribune
RCP has a couple of decent maps up now for Senate, House and Govs. You can click on “No Tossups” to see how the races bluntly stand (in their estimation, to be fair). So far, just +3 on the govs, but +7 in the Senate. I’d take that if offered today, but I think we might be able to outdo it in November (still not certain witht he Senate, though; we need a few more heavy hitters to get in and push the wavering seats in blue states over the line).
9 Republicans have served as U.S. Senators from Delaware since the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913. How many of them avoided ever being defeated for reelection?
My heart bleeds; cue the violins…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35814348/ns/us_news-education/?GT1=43001
WASHINGTON – House leaders have concluded they cannot change a divisive abortion provision in President Barack Obama’s health care bill and will try to pass the sweeping legislation without the support of ardent anti-abortion Democrats.
AP
The best part of “Maude” was young Abrienne Barbeau as Maude’s daughter! Sm-o-o-o-okin’ hot.
The GOP’s going to be more than +3 in the governorships.
Even though she’s much older now, Mnw, Adrienne Barbeau still has an appealingly raspy voice.
Breaking:
The Senate Parliamentarian has ruled that President Barack Obama must sign Congress’ original health care reform bill before the Senate can act on a companion reconciliation package, senior GOP sources said Thursday.
RollCall
HD
can that be right???
I have got to go out now but that could be waterloo?
I am waiting for updates but will be back in an hour?
Can’t pass house without Stupak 12
HD
Then I don’t think they can pass it, if that’s true. Probably just some sort of head fake, though.
Now… this bit I’m reading where Pelosi says “probably not by March 18″? That’s sweet. If this POS doesn’t get railroaded through before Easter break (starts 3/29, I THINK), & they have to face the home folks again… I think that ends it.
21 – George, looks like the only “Tossup” that they have going is Illinois remaining Democrat… I would say that Illinois is iffy now, but could easily go R based on Alexi G’s connections… If we got Pataki, Feingold, and Rossi to run, those could go R as well. California could possibly go R as well, but I wouldn’t count on it. Current RCP rated R seats+Illinois+Feingold+Rossi+Pataki = 52. In this scenario, I think Lieberman would also consider caucusing with the R’s, or just not caucusing with anyone. I would say if the election was held today, our floor would be 47 R seats, or ceiling 53… Fact of the matter, moderates will be swing votes next time around…
Here is link to roll call piece:
http://www.rollcall.com/news/44110-1.html
This is a big deal, folks. (It’s the rough equivalent of Army scoring the first three times it has the ball against Notre Dame….or something like that)
http://www.rollcall.com/news/44110-1.html
Drudge siren.
Pataki has already publicly endorsed Rick Lazy-o, so I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Pataki to run.
Sean #31, I think you meant to say “Thompson,” not “Feingold.”
#35 mnw, Pataki endorsed Lazio for the governorship, not for Gillibrand’s Senate seat.
If this is true, way to go Scott Brown! Guys, I’ve followed some of Brown’s votes… His main question is does it add to the deficit or take money out of people’s paychecks… I believe Snowe, Collins, Vonivich will peel off before Brown.
36 – Yes – Thompson would have a decent change of defeating Feingold… If we got our people, I would say Rossi, Thompson, and Pataki would have a 50/50 chance or better of defeating currently assumed safe Democrat incumbents..
AuH2O, it looks like only John J. Williams avoided the ignominy of defeat. Most of them didn’t last long, save for Bill Roth.
You’re right. I never paid close attention to Lazy-o.
That link to Roll Call is very slow– probably due to volume of hits.
WHAT did S. Brown do?
#41, yea, Drudge sirened it, mnw. It’s gonna be a while.
Take it to the floor, Nancy!
ACORN suit against O’Keefe, Breitbart.com dismissed
#40, correct, George. Pretty strange, considering how DE leaned GOP for most of the 20th century.
If we’re gonna talk about old dead politicians most people never heard of…. I heard Karl Mundt speak once when I was in high school.
mnw,
Your turn to pose a WWII question.
Waterloo it is!
The parliamentarian’s strike is akin to the arrival of Blucher on the field. The Dems will push forward, but will disintegrate much like the IMperial Guard:
“La Garde recule. Sauve qui peut!” (”The Guard retreats. Save yourself if you can!”)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Earl_Mundt
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/capuano-suggests-hes-leaning-no-on-health-care.php?ref=fpblg
This sounds good but he will cave.
#48 George aka Freemarketer,
I’d prefer to use the analogy that the Senate Parliamentarian ruling is akin to the arrival of General Patton’s Third Army to relieve Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge.
Marv, the best part of the Bastogne saga was McAuliffe’s “Nuts!” reply to the German surrendur request.
George,
That was probably the cleaned up version.
Assuredly; one of the few original drafts to make it past the censors was Patton’s infamous speech (much more profane than what George C. Scott treated us to in the film). I’ll have to look that up again; I found it several years ago on some military site.
No googling or wikiing. pls.
Many historians think, though I do not, that Hitler’s “Lotzen decision” (supposed to be 2 little dots over the “o” in Lotzen) was the key turning point in the war.
What was it? Bonus point if you know who vigorously opposed Hitler on this matter.
“Anyone know why Rush calls Joy Behar, “Maude”? It makes me laugh regardless.”
I don’t know but he had a funny clip of Maude trying to talk Jesse Ventura to accept it was racist for Rush to use the sentence “another Massa” and Ventura saying “I guess that flew right over my head”.
parliamentarian is a racist.
wh finally donates nobel $’s to charity.
Is the parliamentarian an only child? or did they run out of judgeships?
Biden: Parliamentarian is racist party of NO health care denier, I will over rule him when time is right.
MNW, I’ve heard that before. ONe can argue all sorts of reasons that the Wehrmacht was ultimately doomed in Russia, so Lotzen is probably limited in its overall impact. Guderian could have driven straight for Moscow, and it would not have made a difference because Hitler’s larger scheme negated the only logical follow-up which was to establish a defensive line along the Don, and simply weather out dwindling Soviet counter-attacks and partisan activity once they lost their central communications hub in Moscow. Like Paris, most railways and highways centered around the capital, and its loss would have been profound. However, unlike Paris, simply holding Moscow did not split the country in half from one critical sector to another (e.g. industrial Lille and the coal country could be cut off from southern France once Paris was taken). The General Staff’s goal was to take Moscow, and then push out the flanks along the Don so as to cut off the balance of Soviet Russia from 1) the Caucasus, and 2) to hinder the ingress of convoyed supplies from Archangelsk. These two goals met would have crippled the ability of the surviving Soviet forces to mount effective counter-strikes to push the Wehrmacht out of Russia, even if it could not realistically move further east to deal with the new industrial centers forming beyond the Urals. The Trans-Siberian railway/highway network was not sophisticated enough to being in supplies from the East even if Japan was not in the way to interfere; the terminus was Vladivostok, not Petropavlosk on the Kamchatka peninsula (and thus out of the way from a serious Japanese threat had they decided to violate the neutrality pact).
Maude was a 70′ TV show spinoff off of “All in the Family”
Maude was a Radical Feminist and very homely. She was played by Bea Arthur of Golden Girls Fame.
George Great War Analogies.
I think Napoleon Pelosi just meet Eye To Eye With Wellington
The GOP appointed Minn Chief Justice stabbed Norm Coleman in the back during the Bogus Senate Race Recount. Good Riddance
KH, Biden can’t out do his remarks vis-a-vis Israel being the girlfriend that everyone wants us to break up with, you know, the one that drags us into all sorts of fights.
Ac1, was the Mass Dem Rep who first said Scott Brown could win. He lost the Primary to Coakley and said how angry the voters were over Obama.
66. Capuano sorry
Hi, guys…I’m back. Sales babes had my BlackBerry ringing constantly.
65 – lol, you know I’d never even heard that one.
Pelosi is in a Aussie Dingy rowing to the shores of Gallapoli
IIRC, Capuano said during one of his debates with Coakley that if uld the Stupak language wasn’t removed from Obamacare in conference committee that he would vote against final passage (Coakley had been saying that she would have voted against Obamacare because of Stupak). I guess that even without Stupak language the bill isn’t liberal enough for Capuano (who represents by far the most liberal district in New England).
George
It’s just a game we play. The idea is to answer fast & short, just to see if Marv, Lisab, you, I (or anybody else) knows the answer.
So… “Decision to turn south & encicle Soviet armies near Kiev, instead of driving on to Moscow. Guderian opposed it,” would be more than enuf for full credit.
My own view is that capturing Moscow wouldn’t have driven the U.S.S.R. out of the war anyway.
Khruschev nearly lost his life while escaping the encirclement. The Nazis shot all captured political officers, altho the fate of the other Russians who weren’t shot was only marginally better.
It was Hitler’s astonishing achievement to marry up American production & Soviet manpower.
Pelosi is to Obamacare what Brigadier General William T Braxton Bragg–a southern general–was to the South’s cause during the 1861-1865 war. To wit, after the war, Bragg, for whom a famous military installation in North Carolina was named, was known as the “Greatest General the North Ever Had.”
Are you sure Capuano’s is the most liberal New England district, AU? I’d imagine John Larson, Peter Welch, or Rosa DeLauro would have that distinction.
Jason, that would mean that Pelosi could succeed if only the Navy would hold up its end of the bargain and offer fire support. Instead, the Dem fleet of Blue Frauds has backed off at the first sign of danger and run home.
In retrospect, taking the Dardanelles “by ships alone” might have been a better bargain; too many men were wasted at Gallipoli for nothing. A few pre-Dreadnoughts clogging the Bosphorus would have been a small price. But for those bloody mines, Constantinople was for the taking!
mnw,
The Lotzen Decision had to do with Hitler’s order to German Army Group Center to delay its advance on Moscow and move south and encircle Soviet forces near Kiev. It was a tactical military success, but the German effort to capture Moscow
was doomed.
General Gudarian, commander of Second Panzer Army, opposed the decision and thereafter lost the confidence of Herr Hitler.
I am totally confused but how is that Intrade score now?
No Stupak fix??
No reconciliation with representation? That’s not what the ruling was but it sounds nice.
Dire straits?
Pelosi still say vote 03-18-2010 is possible?
Hispanic caucus is made?
No legislative language and no CBO score. Pelosi is also fibbing about one week to look at the bill.
confusion reigns in DC
Indeed, MNW; only a madman could achieve such an end. As I said, Moscow was not enough; it had to be bolstered with a solid chunk of ground all around it to keep the Soviets at bay. They would never have collapsedm to be sure, but without arms, planes and most importantly, lots of trucks coming in from the north, they would have been severely hampered in their ability to make war.
It seems the Dems thought this would be over in short order and all the boys would be home by Christmas.
77 – Left hand does not know what the further left hand is doing.
-President to press for cap and tax in senate.
LOL
Here’s one for you, Rdel and George. What Senator failed by one vote to win his party’s in-caucus election for position of Senate Majority Leader when that position suddenly became open because he hated his state’s other Senator so much he refused to ask for his vote?
I like that analogy, Knight.
Rdel, the Soros crowd has kept Deathcare at 52% at Intrade.
Off course they also had Coakley at 98% three weeks before the Brown Win
Gallup: GW ’scientists’ losing support fast.
http://tinyurl.com/yctmu9c
btw what’s with the 27 shotguns ordered for the dept. of education?
Dodd , Wes.
Marv
The freemarket dude got there before you.
Who said “I always just tried to get there the fastest with the mostest”?
I get tired of WWII.
What’s the alternate meaning of Ruptured Duck, btw? I never got back last night to find out.
I put little stock in Intrade. The day before Brwon defeated Coakley, Intrade moved the likelihood of his victory down. It’s really not a reliable way to gauge outcomes.
No, Jason. This was long before Dodd became a Senator. Good guess though since Daschle beat Dodd by only one vote. Even so, the Dodd-Daschle race was for Minority Leader rather than Majority Leader.
These bill are really too important, Congress is just a distraction, and the public not sophisticated enough to understand them, so I move to have all important bills sent directly to the President’s desk for approval under the “very important” rule hereby established.
52% is DOWN from 59% a few days ago.
It sounds like three House votes and two Senate votes are needed.
Step 1: House passes the existing Senate bill.
Step 2: House and Senate pass a reconciliation bill with HC fixes.
Step 3: House and Senate pass a brand new bill which outlaws new Federal HC dollars spent on abortion.
The wrinkle would be that Step #3 would require 60 votes in the Senate, not 50. However, if step 1 is already done, would Senate republicans really vote down a bill that simply limits abortion funding?
Maybe.
But I think Stupak and crew can be brought into that plan, with the expectation that Republicans would be ‘forced’ to support Step #3.
The bigger hurdle will probably be convincing House Democrats to trust Senate Democrats.
CCCP has returned! How goes it, you diabolical acolyte of Stalin, Marx, and Mao?
“President to press for cap and tax in senate. LOL”
You don’t understand. When you have a loser in your hand you go for an even bigger loser and that makes the first loser look less than a loser.
Good repsonse, Barry.
Time for the daily reminder that the NRSC STILL cannot figure out that Marco Rubio exists:
http://www.nrsc.org/senate_races
They’ll be incredibly fast to trumpet Rubio the moment he beats Crist in the primary, DW.
mnw
Ruptured Duck is the name on the side of Captain Ted Lawson’s USAAF B-25. His B-25 was the seventh in line for takeoff from the USS Hornet on the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo. It was the first and last time that Army bombers were launched from an aircraft carrier on a combat mission. Lawson wrote the book named “Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo”, which was later made into a movie of the same name.
92 Au contraire mon ami. The Republicans have already signed a letter ( all 41 ) and there is not going to be any bill avoids the Byrd Rule, that will not be objected to as a point of order. So your brilliant plan fails, and the progs wont bring such a bill anyway, they want to spend taxpayer funds on abortions.
“The bigger hurdle will probably be convincing House Democrats to trust Senate Democrat”
You don’t say…..a shame too, who wouldn’t want to trust Harry Reid?
King Kos himself lays down the gauntlet and tells the truth:
“No ambiguity — MoveOn members want to pass the bill. We spent the last several months fighting to make it better, and we did. It’s not great, but it’s better. And as Howard Dean wrote yesterday, the fight for better health care reform isn’t over.
Dennis Kucinich may rather make common cause with the GOP and Rush Limbaugh, but sane progressives have to realize that this is a step forward. And once the foot is in the door, tweaks can always be made. But our foot must be in the door, and that’s why the GOP and insurance companies are fighting this with all their might.”
Getting their “foot in the door” has ALL this has ever been about as Wylie E and others have continued to say.
We can’t let this happen. Kill it now!
Wes, LBJ . He hated Yarborough
Marv, who was the first Republican elected to serve Florida in the United States Senate?
97…I know. But its just fun to track this every day…kind of like Walter Cronkite (or was it Rather?) marking each day the hostages were in Iran.
Are you talking about step #2 Gary?
I don’t believe that the Republicans can stop reconciliation.
Thanks.
The Japanese beheaded a number of captured Doolittle raiders, I recall.
Totally stumped me, Wes. I haven’t done the research yet, but most of the Majority Leader contests were wrapped up in short order i.ew. Mansfield, Baker, Byrd, etc. I’ll have to read further…
No, Jason. Remember, this guy lost his bid for the position of Senate Majority Leader. Also, the first time Johnson ran for a Senate leadership position, he was running for Minority Leader rather than Majority Leader since the Senate had just turned over in the 1952 elections.
Cory, told us that Healthcare with a Public Option was a lock. When that failed he said Coakley would win by 30% and Obamacare would pass by the End of January
LBJ won his contest, though, Jason. I can’t think of any close losers other than Dodd, Jr. at the moment.
I think had Hitler died shortly after Barbarossa was launched all of Eastern Europe would be a german sphere of influence now.
German troops were much better trained, better led, and had superior organization.
The key I think was to capture the Caucuses first and grab the oil before anything else. Capturing Ukraine already denied the USSR her breadbasket. Usurping the SS after hitler died would’ve greatly helped Germany as well as persecuting slavs turned what were once glad allies into bitter enemies in the Ukraine and neighboring soviet republics. That diverted much needed divisions and equipment into policing. Ukrainian divisions equipped with captured Russian equipment alone could have accounted for another maybe 15 divisions to help hold the line.
Assuming that America was still in the war, the next priority would have been to capture all the warm-water ports on the west coast of Russia. American Halftracks and supplies were critical to the USSR’s war effort, without which their offensive operations would not have been feasible.
The German’s lost because they fought a war without the economics of it in mind. Germany had superior output to the USSR but never fully mobilized until 1944 under Albert Speer and failed to capture key economic resources even though they were almost completely dependent on Soviet supplies, before Barbarossa, in order to maintain their other offensives.
“Amateurs think about tactics, but professionals think about logistics.” By failing to understand this, the Germans lost.
I saw Drudge. So what will be the Dems next move???? HuffPuff is still going on about the public option….
101. Any bill would have been the foot in the door for these people. They want full blown socialized medicine a la Soviet Union, where doctors worked 9 to 5 and punched time cards and had the prestige of a janitor.
This is an old contest, George. In fact, there was something of a replay of it in the ’90s during a Senate leadership race.
They dont have the votes. They will not have the votes before Easter break I predict either.
Lemmings are smarter than Democrats apparently, at least they rush headlong for the cliff and get it over with. Democrats take 10 months talking about driving for the cliff.
You ever get tired, or maybe think twice about, lying? Jason T?
Wes, not Truman. Otherwise stumped.
Adonijah Strong Welch
Wes, I am going with Ed Gurney, although I don’t know if there were any during the Reconstruction era.
Cory, if I could get the posts, It will show I am right. You are a lying Canadian weasel.
Piss off back bacon
You’re right, George. Welch did serve as Senator from Florida, but Senators were never elected until 1914. Thus, Welch was appointed by legislature rather than elected.
Dio: Hit the nail right on the head. Logistics feed success, not just armies.
“I don’t believe that the Republicans can stop reconciliation.”
I hope Cory is wrong about this too. But in any event unless they pass the Senate bill as is there is no reconciliation. And if it passes and Obama signs it there probably won’t be any reconciliation either.
All the marbles are in the Senate bill. If it passes we have Obamacare. It fails we don’t. Reconciliation is a distraction.
The GOP had four Senators from Florida during Reconstruction, but none of them were elected since Senators always took office by legislative appointment rather than popular election at that time.
Too bad Cory has a shift at the Toronto Starbucks, otherwise he could come down South and campaign with Howard Dean for the Public Option
Wes,
Who was the first president of Iowa State Agricultural College? (now Iowa State University)
Jason, luckily Cory is always wrong. He picked Corzine and Coakley
Calvin Coolidge
Wes, Thadeus Stevens
I just wanted to know if Marv could identify “Lotzen decision,” that’s all.
But thanks for all that info. To me, invading Russia sounds like risky business indeed, under any scenario. Like robbing a bank. Bad idea.
It’s 5pm in D.C., so they can’t ruin the country today, anyway.
It grows so tiresome to see posters here just making up crap about other posters in some attempt to discredit them.
Don’t you think it’s a little frightening how easy lying comes to you Jason T? You don’t even seem to give it a moment’s thought.
You should learn to express yourself through more mature, adult, methods. Pointing your finger at someone and making up something about is just so immature, so childish.
Just grow up, man.
It was Byron “Pat” Harrison of Mississippi, Jason. When Joe Robinson of Arkansas died suddenly in 1937, Harrison and Alben Barkley fought for the Majority Leader position. Harrison’s fellow Senator, Theodore Bilbo, said he would vote for Harrison if personally asked. To this, Harrison responded, “Tell that sonofabitch I wouldn’t speak to him even if it meant the presidency of the United States.” Harrison subsequently lost the race to Barkley by a 37-38 margin. Fifty-nine years later, there would be something of a replay when Trent Lott and Thad Cochran ran against each other, and Lott prevailed by a 43-12 margin even though both Senators were much friendlier to each other this time around.
Its come down to the Democrats like Slaughter being too stupid to understand the Senate rules. Abortion, among other things, can not be adopted by reconciliation, due to the Byrd rule. The Byrd rule can not be changed except by a vote of 66 Senators.
So yes they can adopt the Senate bill as is. That will enrage both Hispanics and union members, who dont like provisions in the Senate bill. Since the story has been its less bad to pass something than nothing, how does this work by enraging two large democrat leaning constituencies?
This might be the greatest cluster ever attempted by a political party. If the next caucus can be held at a Denny’s with room to spare, that will be justice served.
But Gary, that’s why abortion has it’s own step, step #3, which doesn’t use reconciliation.
That was Senator Welch, Marv. Good trick question.
Hey Cory you did pick Coakley and Corzine, you said the PO would pass, everything Jason T said is true. You repeat every Democratic talking point here, some don’t pan out, what is the problem?
I guess mine was something of a trick question too even though I didn’t plan it that way.
CCCP’s incapable of saying anything that’s not left-wing drivel, Jason. Haven’t you noticed that yet?
“Step 3: House and Senate pass a brand new bill which outlaws new Federal HC dollars spent on abortion.”
Stupak knows that won’t get 50 votes in the Senate, let alone the 60 it would need as a new bill.
I’ve been watching the various comments back and forth between Cory and the others, and it seems to me – the others are absolutely correct.
That’s the most logical assessment, Erich…That’s exactly why CCCP’s completely incapable of making it.
53.
Brown 51.2%
Coakley 47.7%
Comment by Cory — January 18, 2010 @ 4:36 pm
Should I go find the Corzine one as well?
George, who was the only Republican to represent North Carolina in the Senate between Reconstruction and the election of Jesse Helms in 1972?
Had Hitler died, Germany would have collapsed much quicker. Remember you’re talking about a guy who couldn’t make any real decisions without hedging his bets a bit. There would have been tremendous infighting and outright armed battles between the various military branches and whom they answered to.
140 bingo.
Now sure that will sink in to a liberal frozen brain but its factually. Too many in the Senate dont want Stupak language, they want to gut the Hyde amendment that has been the law for 30 + years and usher in the prog heavan of taxpayer subsidized abortions which is unacceptable to a huge swath of Americans.
military trivia posters
Ever read about Japanese Army Unit 731 in China?
It’s a fascinating story. It could give any Nazi atrocity a run for its money.
I just got back and saw the news about the Senate parliamentarian’s ruling. Pelosi only has one option now. She has to pass the Senate bill as-is. (Huge grin on my face)
Obama down to 46% approval in Gallup.
Oh, the Senate vote in step #3 would definitely rely on Republican votes.
HC reform would already be law, it would be a delicious position to put the Republicans in the position of obstructing limits on abortion funding.
Not real posts Cory. You made those up. you have been outed on that before form other posters, you are a fraud
Marquette!
Cory says:
October 30, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Virginia:
McDonnell 57%
Deeds 42%
New Jersey:
Christie 44% [winner]
Corzine 44%
Daggett 10%
New York:
Hoffman 42%
Owens 37%
Scozzafava 21%
Wes, Jeter Pritchard. And no, that’s not courtesy of Wiki.
Argh…CCCP, is Canadian politics so bland you have to spend all your time obsessing over what happens south of your borders?
MNW, was that the unit that dealt with Nanking?
Yes, I really blew the NY-23 numbers by predicting a Conservative victory… you know me and my pro-Conservative bias.
But in my defence that was pre Scozzafava dropout.
Cory cracks me up. Eph Rove busted him multiple times here for lying, by making fraudulent back posts.
He is a hack and a fraud.
Ah, now that the lies are exposed, is it time to discredit me for being Canadian again?
cory posted:
Obama – 52
McCain – 47
Nixon – 58
McGovern – 42
Exactly, George. Now this might be a bit harder. What allowed the Dems to recapture control of the North Carolina state government in 1900 and 1902, thus denying Pritchard reappointment to the Senate?
Oh no, wait!! MORE LIES!! Hooray!
Cory, why would that be “delicious?” Republicans opposing and obstructing abortion funding would put them on the side of the public (and by a large margin). We may be a marginally pro-choice nation, but we have little tolerance for funding those who choose to abdicate their responsibilities.
Reading about Japanese Army Unit 731 is probably where Obama formed his views on the US health care system.
The answer to #162 is one of the grandest ironies in American political history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
You got me, Wes; I will definitely have to reserach that one.
Nixon by 16 only? Boy, you blew that one.
Nope you have to live with the huge inferiority complex that is living in Canada brings. Whores and hockey sticks aint much, but its all ya got.
Wes, remember when Cory did his hit and run postings last fall?
He said you will love Socialized medicine, grin and bear it. The Public option is terrific, welcome to the modern world.
He also predicted Harper, would lose a Confidence vote and be ousted as Prime Minister
re #164
Ah, but George, the scenario that I’m discussing puts Republicans in the position of obstructing RESTRICTIONS on abortion funding.
I think Ace sums it up best:
Summing Up the Past 24 Hours: The Congressional Hispanic Caucus makes a demand that already derailed healthcare reform once. The Congressional Black Caucus complains that Obama isn’t listening to them. The co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus announces that the President’s stumping across the country isn’t doing a lick of good. The Stupak Twelve announce that there will be no deal. And now the Parliamentarian makes it that much harder to get wavering Congressmen on board.
Stick a fork in it.
Meanwhile, Nancy “Nero” Pelosi keeps protesting “there’s just a few minor, technical things” to work out.
Time to turn up the heat even more on these Democratic congressmen. More calls and faxes
You cannot underestimate Obama/Reid/Pelosi to resurrect the Obamacare zombie.
Worse than a hack and a fraud, Cory os a follower.
He has no problem if the Inner Party has better health care than him.
Jason T, go back and look at the prediction threads man. The rough dates are right there in my posts.
Then, for the love of God, see someone about your compulsive lying. You need help.
Anyone who has penis envy to the extent CCCP does and thus has to compensate by poring over a larger (in terms of population), better-performing country’s politics obsessively really isn’t worth my time, Jason.
Wont happen because Stupak knows his own caucus has snakes who cant be trusted. Think that a filibuster by a solcialist by Bernie Sanders is at all possible ( nay probable ) once taxpayer funded abortions become law for even a nano second?
Cory, you are two steps behind as usual.
John Hawkins already explained that the GOP will not fall for the Abortion Trap. Boehner and McConnell will not settle for anything but a new bill from scratch. Hussein and Reid screwed them once when they deleted Stupak.
Cory, you disappoint me.
I’ll give you a day to research, George. If you haven’t found the answer by tomorrow, then I’ll tell you. Deal?
A spectacular crash and burn by Obama, I would give him a solid B+!
Reid’s wife and daughter treated in a hospital after a car crash:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/03/reids-wife-and-daughter-sent-t.html?wpisrc=nl_polalert
Cory, lighten up. When you get your facts straight, you can then judge other people like Jason.
I was here last fall, and you did profess your love for the Public Option and said Obama would sign a Bill by XMAS. Am I a liar too?
If I am wrong, I will man up. Maybe posters here recall this also
Geaorge aka
No, it was a “Dr. Mengele-on-steroids” kind of thing. Not related to the Nanking Massacre.
I’m sure Marv’s link will fill you in, if interested.
The Chinese actually have a museum to commemorate the atrocities committed by Unit 731. It was a horror movie come to life.
The Republicans will announce quite rightly, that they intend to roll back the entire legislation after the November elections, and urge voters to send representatives to Washington who want that to happen. Washout will be so thorough that Democrats could caucus in a phone booth.
This is DOA, but Pelosi is too stupid to know it yet.
wow. Merlin Olsen died. Too bad, good man
I briefly looked it over; heard of it now that I think back, but didn’t realize it was THAT bad.
Wes, I’ll try to scour around if I have time (about to leave to run errands for the day). My cursory search thus far has yielded nothing.
BTW, Djou’s coming on like a freight train in HI-1; the two Dems are beating one another over the head and are paying him no heed. Meanwhile, he’s out raising more money than they are and everybody loves his positive attitude and demeanor. If he loses in May, I’d be surprised.
Gary, it would be a better platform to run on than even the Contract for America.
The Democrats will really get wiped out at the State Level.Re-Districting will be brutal for the DEMS
Where did drive BY Cory go?
Agood day for America and a bad day to be an America hating atheist weasel! The Ninth Circuit finds the Pledge of Allegiance to be constitutional!!
A divided federal appeals court Thursday reversed itself, ruling that the Pledge of Allegiance doesn’t violate the constitutional prohibition against state-mandated religious exercise even though it contains the phrase “one nation under God.”
The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in 2002, which deemed that requiring students to recite the pledge violated their rights to be free of religious indoctrination by the government, was one of the most controversial to come out of the court that is second only to the U.S. Supreme Court in its power to determine law for nine Western states and two Pacific territories.
CCCP probably found some old youtube clips of Obama speeches and–uh–decided to make use of some vaseline while watching them.
I read a persuasive analysis today that Gov. Patterson does NOT intend to call a special election to replace Massa.
Patterson & the DEMs reason that w/ Cuomo on the ballot, their chances of holding the seat in November will be better. As a pretext, Patterson can claim, “We can’t afford another special election.” What can the voters do to him anyway?
Brooks, I absolutely ADORE the public option.
This current bill, while still far, far, better than status quo, is a shell of what it could have been if it included a viable public option.
But, reality dictated that the public option be removed.
I did say previously that Rasmussen would show positive support for the HC bill on the day that Obama signs it into law.
I don’t know if I ever predicted when that would be… I might have. I certainly expected it to be done by now.
I have no problem with voluntary, organized recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, Gary. No one should have to recite the Pledge though. If people elect not to say it at the same time as everyone else, then it seems to me it should be their constitutional right.
OUCH!!!! The hits just keep on coming for Pelosi.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/86317-gutierrez-health-bills-immigration-parts-enough-to-vote-against
190…Massa’s district isn’t exactly Cuomo territory. Should make little difference.
Cory, is the Sky Blue in your World?
Phoenix, Luis Guitterez is a punk. He was the one who got Clinton to pardon the FALN Terrorists who shot Cops.
He is not to be trusted
Patterson owes the Dems nothing, since they undoubtedly had a hand in getting rid of him. Hell, he should call one just to spite them.
MNW, moot point. The only DEM who could have held Massa’s seat, Monroe County DA Mike Green, said NO.
Brooks, I know that. However, these congressmen want to keep their jobs. How will they explain this to their Hispanic constituents?
George, Patterson is just one of the sheep
Does it hurt to think for yourself Cory, or just too darn hard.
If this bill is good, why do our masters get to opt out?
Cory, you do realize that there would be no benefits for HC doled out until 2014, right?
The taxes start the day it is signed. Cory, do you read?
George, who were the only Republicans to capture Dem Senate seats between 1930 and 1936?
No, it isn’t a moot point. It keeps a (very probably) GOP congressman out of office for an extra 6 months.
17…For those that might remember “Maude” was the first show to actually bring the, before then, never spoken of, topic of abortion out in the open. If memory serves she became pregnant late in life and they opted for an abortion. Really was big at the time.
MNW, true
Wes,
Some have argued that the US Strategic Bombing Campaign of Germany wasn’t determinative in the Allied victory. What is your opinion?
Mnw, what do you think of Jason Plummer? You live near Edwardsville right?
Marv, Dresden was awful, but when a country stands by and lets its leaders put children in Gas Chambers?
The Hispanic Caucus is posturing! They have about as much real freedom of action as Captain Renault had (before he decided to switch sides).
“Nancy spank, fellas.”
I would argue Germany would have fallen anyway, Marv. The strategic bombing campaign though did much to further damage German infrastructure and cause a faster surrender, much as Hiroshima and Nagasaki would do in Japan. Thus, yes, I believe it was a determinative factor in the speed of the end of hositilities, though not one in what was an inevitable outcome.
Dresden caused Kurt Vonnegut to become a leftwinger, Brooks. Sad, because Vonnegut was a great writer and an incredibly insightful mind.
It’s amazing Kurt Vonnegut and Walter Miller, Jr–both fine writers, war heroes, and, during World War II, political conservatives were so traumatized by what happened to them they retreated into pacifistic liberalism for the remaining decades of their lives.
B
I live IN Edwardsville, actually, altho I vote at another residence in MO. I don’t know anything about Plummer. I never heard of him before the recent primary election. As you probably know, he’s in his twenties, I think. That’s pretty startling.
Wes,
My position is the air power was determinative of the whole damn thing. (Though I would never say that in the Officer’s Club on any Navy or Marine base.)
Well, of course you’d think that, Marv. Any Marine would say the Corps was determinative while any soldier would say the Army was the deciding factor.
“Maude” was a Norman Lear show. So the leftwing sermon was always there somewhere.
Yep, and both would be wrong.
Germany lost the War the day they invaded Russia. Hitler stupidly created another front. They say he did it for oil in the Caucusses.
There’s a famous cartoon of Hitler and Napoleon in Hell, Brooks. Napoleon asks Hitler, “So you invaded Russia. Then what happened…?”
Had he kicked off Operation Barbarossa in April rather than June, the outcome would have been much different.
The Hitler invasion of Russia was also the inspiration for one of my favorite quotes of all time:
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
–Santayana
Paul Ryan tells us what’s coming.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWIwMmYzMjMzYTJhZjZjYTRkY2MzZDgxYzRiYTc5MDE=
Looks like Pelosi is going to go ahead with this even though she doesn’t have the votes. Basically she hopes to create momentum for the bill and hopes it will pressure the Stupak coalition and blue dogs to cave. I guess she is basically saying “If this thing is going to die, I want to go down fighting (in flames).” Waxman already has said they are going to proceed without the Stupak coalition. So they are going to call Stupak and see if his coalition is for real or not. Oh boy.
Her is a good question for Marv and Wes.
If we had today’s 24/7 media climate, would FDR have been impeached for Pearl Harbor?
I think O’s at a new low because people saw him on TV with his “wife beater” t-shirt clearly visible under his dress shirt.
I can just visualize him smoking a doobie on the 2nd floor portico with a 32 of 45.
I doubt it, Brooks. I think the nation would have rallied against the enemy even then. The media alone weren’t different at that time. The nature of the populace was too.
221. Marv great point. The tires of the tanks in the mud.
Still no legislative language to the recon bill-no CBO score
The hispanic caucus is whinning-Stupak 12 will not be accomdated(not just because of parl.ruling but the women are against Stupak) and the senate rules guy dropkicked the recon 1st option.
All in all a bad day for HC.
Strangely the democrats are moving forward
Wow, Capuano (D-MA!!!) says he is leaning no now.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/capuano-suggests-hes-leaning-no-on-health-care.php?ref=fpblg
The House just impeached a Clinton Appointed Judge from Louisiana.
I think the rush for the exits will be strong, once they realize it aint passing. Noone wants to be the 200th ( and last vote for ) an hugely unpopular bill.
About 160 progs is really the possible outcome here. Would be funny to see how many found things to do besides attend the vote.
Brooks,
Probably not, the Republicans would have rallied around the flag and the media wouldn’t have pushed it. There would have been immense pressure on FDR after the fall of the Philippines an the subsequent Battan Death March. There would have also been severe critism when we invaded Peleliu and lost 1500 Marines when we could have bypassed it and let the little bastards starve.
Ras MN Governor
Too many for me to want to list.
Dayton, Rybak lead Emmer by 3
Emmer leads all other Ds
Seifert ties/leads all Ds
No one reaches 40%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/minnesota/election_2010_minnesota_governor
Who wants to be the last Democrat to lose an election because he voted yes for a vastly unpopular bill? (to paraphrase John Kerry)
So what good has happened for the Democrats in the last two weeks? Anything at all? Lets talk about HC some more shall we?
When The Swallows Come Back to Capuano.
rdel
Agree w/ you for once. HC had a bad day. Also I agree w/ phoenix that Pelosi is moving forward to create momentum, hoping she’ll pick up votes.
The X factor here is how much counter-pressure these guys are getting from their constituents. That could pick up momentum too.
Paul Ryan, is saying it will all start Monday. http://www.nationalreview.com
Pelosi thinks Stupak is bluffing
Are you guy aware that KOS and MSDNC has taken an all out assault on Bart Stupak? They are alleging he is a member of a cult and lived in a communal house blah blah blah. I think Stupak will most likely react poorly to getting slimed by progs. You might watch and see.
The Church is not bluffing. Liberal Stupak wants to vote Yes, but the Bishops want the Stupak language, now not later
Gary, I still feel that Stupak does not matter. Pelosi does not have the votes even with Stupak and friends
I just read Capuano’s letter. As usual, it doesn’t say he’s a “no.” Just a lot of yadda yadda.
235- well put.
Doesn’t stupak want to run for Gov?
Cory is a liar and a fraud. He is quoting his predictions the night before the election and conveniently forgetting he predicted the Dems would win prior to that.
Stupak is also a former MI State Police officer. I doubt talk about his (alleged) hippie days will influence his admirers.
241
Brooks my point is even stupid Democrats can count, and when its not close, you are not going to vote yes and lose. I say a pretty good chance its get the progs and the black caucus and is stuck on about 160, and everyone else acts like they never heard of health care reform.
“Brooks, I absolutely ADORE the public option.”
Of course, all socialists do. It’s not about HC, it’s about transferring power to the government we all understand that.
Jason, Cory said HC would be signed last XMAS.
Democratic Primary 2012:
38 percent chose Obama, 30 percent opted for Clinton, 29 percent said Dean, and 4 percent Jeff Boss.
Jeff Boss ??? Who Dat?
Right Mnw, stupak was a state trooper. He is not running for governor
I do not trust him, and I count him as a Yes. I think it dies due to swing district DEMS
Rememeber, there are many more Swing Districts now, than in the Fall when Obama’s approvals were much higher.
The radical left’s lust for power has brought us to the brink of the worst Constitutional crisis since the Civil Law….
The “Slaughter Seizure” is government by fiat!
The Democrats who are even contempalting are beyond reprehension!
This cannot be allowed to stand!
This is despotism and lawlessness!
This all would have been dead in 2009, if Ben Nelson had a smidgen of Scruples.
Jeff Boss for President.
http://www.jeffbossforpresident.org/
“This Is Big [Daniel Foster]
Via Philip Klein over at AmSpec, Roll Call is reporting from GOP sources that the Senate Parliamentarian has ruled the House must first pass the Senate bill — and the president must sign that bill into law — before reconciliation fixes to it can be considered.
House Democratic leaders have been searching for a way to ensure that any move they make to approve the Senate-passed $871 billion health care reform bill is followed by Senate action on a reconciliation package of adjustments to the original bill. One idea is to have the House and Senate act on reconciliation prior to House action on the Senate’s original health care bill.
Information Republicans say they have received from the Senate Parliamentarian’s Office eliminates that option. House Democratic leaders last week began looking at crafting a legislative rule that would allow the House to approve the Senate health care bill, but not forward it to Obama for his signature until the Senate clears the reconciliation package.
“Game Changer” is quickly replacing the various iterations of “under the bus” as the most overused political cliche of our age, but this certainly qualifies as one. And it leaves House Democrats with little but the fig leaf of the “Slaughter Rule” as political coverage.”
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2ZlMzYwYmFkMzFlYTQ4YWYwMDFhM2UwMWMyNDVkYjM=
“Cory is a liar and a fraud. ” – Takes one to accuses one, miniscule jason, Call U Next Tuesday!
I dunno. Based on what he’s said, I think Stupak stays “no.” They’re not even going to try to placate him on abortion.
I’d be more concerned about other members of the Stu-pack, such as Costello. Hoyer said today that he expected “some” Stupak supporters to abandon the Stupak position. I think Hoyer’s right, but not about Stupak personally.
Pelosi’s only hope is retail one-on-one persuasion: cutting individual secret deals with reluctant members. That might work. Costello is the most buyable vote in Congress, imo.
Ah yes, here comes BPL the intellectual midget. Actually managed to write a whole sentence without profanity, amazing feat. Should we thank some grade school in Scottsdale?
Michelle Bachmman was on Hannity and said Dem pollster Greenberg made a presentation for Dems in the House and had graphs to show that Dems would be creamed in November if HC does not pass, because the Dem base will be “discouraged”. Let’s hope too many don’t buy that theory.
Congress loves to pass meaningless bills; expressing appreciation, or condolences, or happy birthday wishes, or whatever.
Why not just have the Senate vote on a bill that states intent to pass the reconciliation bill? Then the House knows how Senators will vote on the real bill.
Then, the House can pass the Senate bill and reconciliation bill, and the Senate can vote on the real reconciliation bill.
Any Senator who ‘double-crosses’ the House Democrats would be a pariah. Ostracized by the party, and without a constituency.
That sounds like one pretty simple way around the current ‘dilemma’. I’m sure there are many others, without resorting to creating new rules.
George Pataki in New York, Tommy Thompson in Wisconsin, and Dino Rossi in Washington need to get into the senate race if the GOP wants the senate.
If all of the “big three” recruits got in, I’m sure at least one would win.
Meanwhile here is a Dem politician even loonier than Ron Paul.
http://blog.timesunion.com/tablehopping/13889/assemblyman-seeking-to-ban-all-salt-in-restaurant-cooking/
In a nutshell:
“No owner or operator of a restaurant in this state shall use salt in any form in the preparation of any food for consumption by customers of such restaurant, including food prepared to be consumed on the premises of such restaurant or off of such premises.”
arrrr
Currently the Democrats are proposing amounts to lawlessness and authoritrian rule….
The Senate bill is government run HC – period….
That is why the immoral and illegal gangsters of the Democrat party and the radical left are now resorting to tyrannical measures in their lust to secure this power in order to advance their ideology of state power!
Anyone who supports this so-called “HC” bill is essentially supporting the overthrow of the Constitution and the rule of the law and replacing it with Authoritarian rule!
Forget about “Reconcilliation” – it was never going to happen as the Senate bill is the GOVT HC Takeover and always was!
The “Recon” was just a lie intended to allow the useful idiots of the KOS left to keep fired up and to give an excuse to House Scum Dogs/Rabid Regressives/Pro-lifers a fig leaf for voting for the Bill
Ignore the liars and useful idiots on here who are still talking about Recon as a serious option….
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWIwMmYzMjMzYTJhZjZjYTRkY2MzZDgxYzRiYTc5MDE=
“Regardless of how bad a reconciliation package looks, Ryan says it is the passage of the Senate bill in the House that troubles him the most. “The Senate parliamentarian made it clear today,” he says. “The Senate bill has to become law before reconciliation can be taken up in the Senate. Knowing this, the Democrats are doing whatever they can to convince House members to walk the plank. But let’s be very clear: If the Senate bill passes in the House, it’s not just some setup for reconciliation — it’s a huge, new federal entitlement that’ll be signed into law.”
“To get that, they need to make promises to members about what’ll come next, so look for them to thread the needle on policy changes and abortion in the budget and rules committees,” Ryan says. “Reconciliation is a distraction for the Democratic leadership — something to talk about with members while keeping their eye on the main prize, which is passing the Senate bill.”
262 – Bunu, I agree… If all three ran, which one do you think would have the greatest chance of winning?
Department of Homeland Security wants to equip all cell phones with ability to sniff you for chemicals.
Maybe the national I.D. Card could be integrated into an Iphone after Apple company is nationalized. This way the phone can sniff people. We could do the Android instead I guess.
Yes, tiny jason – I’ll gladly compare my GPA, honors, & achievments against your resume from Whatsamatta U, or wherever the hell you bribed to print you a diploma.
Call U Next Tuesday!
I think Thompson would win. I don’t know about the others.
sooooooo …
how long before hey fire the parliamentarian?
sooooooo …
how long before hey fire the parliamentarian?
The end is near. The only way out is to overrule the parliamentarian which would raise constitutional issues or bribe Stupak’s pack. The general feeling is that the forks are coming out.
McCain-Liberbman-Scott Brown bill gains 9 cosponsors. Any of these your senators?
Unconstitutional “laws” aka power grabs must be resisted by the states and the people……
Here is the state taking the first stand!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/virginia-becomes-first-state-ban-federal-insurance-mandate
“Virginia Becomes First State to Ban Federal Insurance Mandate
Sic semper overbearing Nanny Staters.
2:48 PM, Mar 11, 2010 · BY Mary Katharine Ham
The Virginia House of Delegates passed a law banning a federal mandate for health insurance in the state, should Congress pass a law containing such a requirement.The House of Delegates was the second, and easier, obstacle for the bill after the Democrat-controlled Virginia Senate passed the bill in February:
By an 80-17 vote, the Virginia House of Delegates passed HB 10, sponsored by Del. Robert G. Marshall (R-13th District), which states that no resident of the commonwealth shall be required to obtain or maintain individual insurance coverage.
Gov. Bob McDonnell has said he’ll sign the legislation. As many as 34 other states are considering similar measures.
All 17 “no” votes were Democrats, but five Democrat cross-overs enabled the bill to pass the Senate earlier this year.”
#271 Already being contemplated:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/did-senate-parliamentarian-just-kill-obamacare
“So where do Democrats go from here? One possibility is that Harry Reid will fire the Senate parliamentarian.
If Democrats really think they can get away with such a heavy-handed move in the first place, they might as well replace the parliamentarian with Rahm Emanuel and kill two birds with one stone.”
Dr J
those are pretty decent GOP numbers in MN. None are top flight guys (all are good guys) and to be within MOE of big name democrats is not bad
Newt has a good zinger:
“We have gone from approving bills without reading them to approving them without voting on them”
“So where do Democrats go from here? One possibility is that Harry Reid will fire the Senate parliamentarian.”
Worked well for Nixon and Archibald Cox.
arrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Something like will work for the final two weeks closing message in Kentucky I think.
Rand Paul’s campaign makes a money bomb commercial.
I think he should turn this into an actual commercial. He could substitute Jefferson for Lincoln in order to not distract voters from the message since Lincoln is controversial to some.
Substitute in that president who got died of pneumonia right away instead.
He didn’t do anything to make the country worse.
#275, Thank God we have a republican govenor in VA now.
“Lincoln is controversial to some.”
Ok, I resist taking that bait.
“We have gone from approving bills without reading them to approving them without voting on them”
Comment by jason — March 11, 2010 @ 7:37 pm
Nice.
#275
As I posted several months ago, we are in for another civil war. This time it will be fought in the courts.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/11/florida-romney-52-huckabee-21-palin-18/
#287
Romney is not going to get the nomination.
Hey what’s that Sarah Palin is doing? She must be trying to donate to Rand Paul’s money bomb no doubt.
HC notes or thoughts
1. Here is what Congressmen Ryan is talking. Reconciliation but law must start in the house budget committee. So a recon bill will be introduced and taken up for discussion on Monday. Be clear that no legislative language or CBO score is available for the recon bill. NO matter. On Monday Recon bill#2 will be discussed. There may be some suggestions or a framework for a bill. Most likely not.
2. The bill are this point may have some general legislative language but no matter it will be voted and sent to the rules committee for further discussion. It really does not matter what the house budget committee approves. It could be the senate recipe for bean soup.
3. When Nancy P. is ready and willing the Rules committee will meet to take up the Budget recon bill (senate bean soup recipe). Some congressman will introduce the official reconciliation bill that has been hidden until now and it be discussed. At this point it may or may not be taken up for a vote.
Was this confusing? The house fall operates under “rules” which is more or less the daily scheduling of votes. Under Pelosi (the GOP did it too) the rules committee has been used to substitute bills that the speaker wants to be acted on.
You need about 24 hours or in some cases 48 hours to take a bill up. Of course you can vote at 11:30 PM Tuesday and have a vote at 8AM Thursday in some cases.
So the meeting on Monday is just a paperwork start for the budget recon bill. There is no actual bill yet to study its a paper work thing.
#289
You can have Palin, Paul and Romney.
#286 It wont be fought in any court if the Senate Bill can be defeated in the House….
If people rise up this week and put heat on the Rats, CrappyCare WILL NOT PASS!!!!
So basically no one knows what’s goijng to happen next with Obamacare. Just wanted to make sure of that.
#290 More to the point (and I wish Ryan would have clearly stated it this way too), IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE BUDGET COMMITTEEE DOES OR THE RECON BILL CONTAINS!!!!
The Recon bill will never see the light of day once the House passes the Senate Bill!
The whole “Budget committee is workin’ Recon bill” is just a sucker ruse/cover ploy so Pelosi can tell her members “see we are gonna address your concern” – its simply a vehicle to WHIP VOTES and should be clearly labeled as another diversion and lie!
THE ONLY VOTE THAT MATTERS IS ON THE SENATE HC BILL!!!!
Wylie
I personally think that recon, of course, is a non starter.Today more then ever its a non starter. So its all about the house voting on the senate bill.
Some of the smart guys at NRO and myself believe that “slaughter solution” is a no good. classic trail balloon and it ain’t flying.
I am 50-50 right now as to whether we will have a vote this month on HC. I have always thought it was more likely to die a non-voting death. Why punish the loyal by making them vote for a 70% negative bill. In my opinion Stupak provides cover for several dozen congressmen to change their minds.
On the flip if the left is going to keep beating the drums for HC or be mad because there was never a walk the plank defeat. Then a vote would be a sign to them that they tried.
Nothing is settled until its settled but the ruling today plus the determination of the pro abort women not to give in to Stupak has made it nearly impossible to get to 216.
So prolonging this puppy is like torture
The X-factor is mail & phone calls. Remember the “inevitable” amnesty bill in 2007?
How can Rand Paul get female voters, which is his second weakest category.…
Put Kelley Paul on the campaign trail.
Here’s one, Rdel. Who was the only 20th century Dem Senator from Michigan to lose a reelection bid?
If not by Easter, it’s doomed. (And Specter is toomed already, btw.)
Got a fundraising letter tonite from Scott Brown asking me to donate to his 2012 re-election campaign. SOOOO not gonna happen! Scott & I were a one-night-stand. We both had fun, but now it’s over.
I heard tonight on our local talk radio that Obama’s cousin, who is a medical doctor, came out today and said that the HC bill is horrible. I also heard that Obama said today that if the congress doesn’t get its act together and vote by the 18th HC was dead. Don’t know where the station got these quotes but just thought I would pass it on.
Reigel?
Wes, quick hit and run (no time to stick around), but I am pretty sure that Henry Cabot Lodge took a Dem seat in ‘36. The only other one that I can think of is Lester Dickinson in Iowa. Any others?
#74 Wes, Capuano’s North Boston-Cambridge-Chelsea MA-08 gave President Bush 19% in 2004, as compared to the 39%, 42% and 39% that the Larson, DeLauro and Welch districts got that year. And I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I know that those three districts also gave the GOP presidential candidate around 20% more of the vote in 2000 and 2008 than the MA-08 did. The only districts in the nation that have a white Representative and vote even more Republican than the MA-08 are Brady’s 45%-black PA-01 and Pelosi’s CA-08.
Wes, Blair Moody in MI.
No, Mnw. Reigle didn’t seek reelection.
No, George. Blair Moody was defeated in a bid for election to the ful term. The Senator I’m thinking of actually had won his seat previously.
Funny, after decades of telling their drones THEY NEED Socialized Medicine, the dems are going to get their asses handed to them because of their pandering.
That Karma.
#295 So in your opinion, is the current “press ahead Monday on Recon, vote on the Senate bill next week” the Democrat’s version of an all-or-nothing Kamakazi charge?
If Stupak is to be believed (matter of opinion here), then he will not accept the “promise” of a Recon “fix” that is not passed first – which clearly cannot happen now thanks to the still-living Senate parlimentarian….
Perhaps they think that Stupak does not have 10-12 votes as clearly it can pass if he holds firm….
#308 — Looks like the Stupak coalition is for real. Henry Cueller of Texas and Marion Berry look to be switching from yes to no according to Jay Cost. Abortion is the issue. Good news.
HD,
That poll is one reason why PPP(D) deserves even greater scrutiny post-Texas.
PPP had Medina within 2.5 points of her actual total in Texas a week or so before.
If the Stupak coalition holds, this will never come to a vote, which is exactly what a ton of dem congressman want- no vote at all- They dont want to explain a yes vote to the majority that dont want this POS, and not want to explain a no vote to the far left loonies. Stupak and co will be doing these people a huge favor.
Pickett’s Charge.
If it becomes clear that the House will vote on the Senate Bill, and not some other iteration of something else, then I can add some NOs to my whip count. Guys like donnelly and some others, including that Fuiterrez dude from CHC.
Right now No is at 212. Should probably be 211, but I am not sure if Baird has officially said he is undecided.
Wylie
Monday’s moves are the necessary steps in Pelosi’s attempt to deceive her membership into thinking the senate will do reconciliation.
The process must start in the house. To start it they do not even need an actual reconciliation bill. They can pass a napkin to the rules committee and call it the healthcare reconciliation bill.
The Rules committee almost never starts a bill and in fact by law I think budget/reconciliation bills must start in the house budget committee.
When Ryan says its starts he is correct. This is a needed step to fool house members into thinking reconciliation will occur.
In fact the house can pass the reconciliation bill (needing only 216 votes) and then pass the senate HC bill.
The President signs the HC bill.
The Recon bill goes in the trash.
I know its hard to remember last summer. In the house the various committees voted for two HC bills. The Rules committee(actually Pelosi and the leadership) rewrote them. The Rules committee does not author bills but can redo them
Really rotten day for Pelosi. Cuellar announced he’s a Stu-packer. He voted “yes” before.
If Pelosi calls a vote, & everyone knows it’s going to lose, then there will only be about 175 “yes” votes.
The Cost tally (RCP ‘Horserace blog’) is worth reading.
Wes
for MI it would have to go way back.
probably 1946
MI’s senators got me thinking of PHIL Hart. Of Hart senate building fame. Timing on the thing on that one.
Phil Hart was a heckuva nice guy and a respected Liberal. I can’t hardly believe that named the building after him. Maybe Humphrey but not Hart.
Dirksen was a respected leader and I guess if you do not want to do Taft -Old Ev was okay.
Richard Russell was a true giant of the senate. His views are not quite popular right now-civil rights wise. Yet he was a true senate power.
Prisoner’s dillemna for the win. Unless Pelosi can guarantee it will pass only the hardcore liberals will vote for it.
Either Pelosi is gonna be able to whip em all into shape OR she is goning to go down in flames and risk losing her Speakership.
Next week.
We should know by Tues or Wed which direction it is going. Will it get 216 votes? Or 175?
Hoyer is already positioning himself to be leader when Nancy goes down in flames.
Tim Burns was just selected as the nominee for PA-12.
There may be a rush to NO votes publically if it looks as if Pelosi is forcing this thing next week.
Many like Donnelly and Stupak of course have four square boxed themselves into voting NO on the Senate Bill as is.
I wish the best for Mrs. Reid. Look for Harry to retire now.
Sessions ‘Deeply Concerned’ Over Holder Oversight [Daniel Foster]
Sen. Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.), the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, released the following statement on the news of Attorney General Eric Holder’s non-disclosure:
“I am deeply concerned by Attorney General Holder’s failure to disclose to the Judiciary Committee his third-party brief in support of Jose Padilla’s Supreme Court case. Not only was the Attorney General required to provide the brief as part of his confirmation but the opinions expressed in it go to the heart of his responsibilities in matters of national security. This is an extremely serious matter and the Attorney general will have to address it.”
Please no McNabb in Seattle
There we go:
Boehner calls for investigation into Piglosi- link at the corner.
You need to take the street thugs down with street thug tactics.
I give credit to Boehner.
Democratic pollsters Pat Caddell and Doug Schoen tell Democrats to start over. Warn that losses in the mid-terms will be huge if they don’t start over. This is in WaPo of all publications.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102904.html
Brandon
I just checked-you are right-Burns it is?
I do not think the Obumbler can sell watermelons.
Who said it?
So, Rep. Ryan just said on Hannity that their count shows that the DEMS are 7-10 votes short on passing the bill right now. Also said that DEMS are telling him privately that they know voting for this is political suicide. He said they would be on the floor voting right now if they had the votes. So, obviously some “YES” votes have changed, but they are keeping quiet for now. He also believes Stupak will not vote for the Senater bill.
Be careful with that planted poll from Kos, they want Campbell because he is the weakest choice.
Did we get a ton of planted polls today.
What has gone on today???
Depressing news about Murtha’s old seat. Russell has said he’ll run anyway.
GOP could mess up a steel wall with a rubber hammer.
Anyway, thanks Brandon.
I believe the pledge lawsuit will now go on to be heard by the full Circus Court of Appeals.
Re: #300….Fox and Friends had the story about Obama’s cousin, the physician writing the op ed opposing Obamacare. He is scheduled to be on the show tomorrow morning.
The Senate bill is dead. The only thing left is some sort of suicidal overdrive by Pelosi and Reid. There is a possibility a bloc of house members are going to tell the moron to pack it in and go back to SFO.
Ryan is a shooting star. I wouldn’t have any problem with him running for president in 2012. He would be very tough in the midwestern states and would likely pick off Wisconsin. He, Thune, or Palin would be all right. Romney is looking tough in 2012. He’s had very good polling as of late.
phoenixrisen
Charlie Crist and Paul Ryan both supported the bailout.
That’s Marcus Rubio’s line of attack.
Maybe Rubio could run again Ryan if that’s the case?
It’s hard for a congressman to run for President. I think 2012 is way too early for Ryan.
James A. Garfield did it. How hard can it be?
Rubio will be a member of the imperial senate. That’s greater than a congressman right? Since Ryan voted for the bailout maybe he’s the guy.
I mean..
Rubio will be a member of the imperial senate. That’s greater than a congressman right? Since Ryan voted for the bailout maybe Rubio is the guy.
Lindsey Graham has some kind of new scheme going you can read about on hotair.
I’ve always believed that reconciliation can only used once per year. I think maybe he’s saying he wants to use it for immigration instead.
328 — That’s a pretty amazing article. When two big D pollsters write — very openly and publicly — in the Washington Post against a sitting D president’s major policy initiative, I’ve got to wonder what is going on.
What is their motive for publishing?
I’d guess they’ve tried to get Obama to pay attention to their warnings, to no avail.
Perhaps, too, they’re trying to encourage fence-sitting Ds to vote against Obama’s HC — to keep a Dem majority.
Interesting, in any case.
Ryan is only a representative. He can’t guarantee flipping Wisconsin. As for his plan, most of the GOP has been low-key about it. We already saw how much the liberal outlets (i.e. almost all of them) slammed Bunning for being heartless for trying to fund the extension of unemployment benefits.
Fox showed the clip of those punkass kids that worked for ABC harassing the guy. We were very lucky he kept his calm or they would have palinized the event.
Tim Burns is the GOP nominee for the 12th district (Murtha’s seat) as Brandon posted. That contest will be on 05-18-2010.
Bill Russell will contest Tim Burns for the GOP nod for the full term for this seat. That will also be on 05-18-2010.
Nothing was said about Russell running as an indie in the 05-18-2010 special
Rdel, the election I referenced in my question for you was in the 1940s, yes.
Geaux Bill Russell!
Here is what is at stake right now with the CrappyCare takeover – your Freedom!
Their needs to be a Conservative plan to roll back the “Despotism Doomsday” clock:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/03/democrats_intruding_on_our_fav.html
“There obviously is a way back, but I am not as optimistic as Blankley that it will be taken. Our society has grown soft with increasing numbers of people sucking on the government teat. It is difficult to imagine how politicians will have the courage to do what is right. After all, “Vote for me, and these are the benefits I will take away from you” is not apt to be a winning political strategy. It has not been for the past century.
To regain freedom and to survive means a dismantling of the welfare state and government as we know it. Time is short, if indeed the task can be accomplished at all.
While everyone is for more freedom, no one willingly parts with his seat on the gravy train. We are in a race between the development of political courage and its proper use versus an oncoming financial collapse. At this stage, one appears to be an overwhelming favorite. I know which one I am putting my gold on.”
Bay, since the last–and only–time a sitting Congressman won the preisdency was in 1880, that alone should answer your question about how hard such a thing is. Hell, three men who had never been elected to public office before have won the presidency since Garfield died, but no sitting Congressmen have. That is telling.
Pat Caddell has been warning Democrats for months about this. He thinks they are absolutely nuts and committing the worst case of political suicide in the history of American politics. He has said so on numerous occasions.
Dekocratic reaction? They’ve trashed Caddell. Kill the messenger.
Democratic
This is Gangsta/lawless rule by thugs – this is not freedom or liberty!:
“Open All of Obama’s Health Care Meetings to C-SPAN
Posted by Michael F. Cannon
From my op-ed in The Daily Caller:
ObamaCare would dramatically expand government control over health care.
Each new power ObamaCare creates would be targeted by special interests looking for special favors, and held for ransom by politicians seeking a slice of the pie.
ObamaCare would guarantee that crucial decisions affecting your medical care would be made by the same people, through the same process that created the Cornhusker Kickback, for as far as the eye can see.
When ObamaCare supporters, like Kaiser Family Foundation president Drew Altman, claim that “voters are rejecting the process more than the substance” of the legislation, they’re missing the point.
When government grows, corruption grows. When voters reject these corrupt side deals, they are rejecting the substance of ObamaCare.
If Obama is serious about fighting corruption, he should invite C-SPAN to into every meeting he holds with members of Congress.
Then we’ll see whether he’s lobbying House members based on the Senate bill’s merits, or promising House members judgeships or ambassadorships in exchange for their votes.
What’s going on behind those closed doors, anyway? Aren’t you just a little bit curious?
Or does corruption only happen when Billy Tauzin is in the room?”
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/03/11/open-all-of-obamas-health-care-meetings-to-c-span/
Here is a damm good idea that the GOPers in the Senate had better be listening too:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/im_sorry_madam_speaker_the_rep.html
“My suggestion is for Senate Republicans to rescue the House Democrats (and the American people) by promising to block the Senate fix. Senator McConnell, accompanied by Senator Kyl, new Senator Brown, and perhaps even Senator McCain, should hold a press conference during which they state unequivocally that no fix to the comprehensive health care reform bill will ever make it out of the Senate, reconciliation or not. Every delaying maneuver known to man will be applied to the legislation. Having this pledge signed by all 41 Republican Senators would be a nice touch.
Now the Democrat congressmen can tell Nancy Pelosi and President Obama, “I’m sorry, I can’t vote for the bill. The Republicans won’t let me.” Then they can all get together with the mainstream media and the White House and gripe about how mean the Republicans are. Don’t worry, House Democrats. We’ll never let on how grateful you are for the cover.”
Wylie
I am not sure exactly if I should be scared of the democrats more because of their plans/desires or their incompetence in running the congress & white house.
More or less since 01-19-2010 the democrats have known that reconciliation is a their best chance for passing HC. Today the leadership of the house & senate & white house might actually have an agreement on what to reconcile. Maybe??
If true perhaps legislative language and a CBO score could be released by Monday. Maybe.
The senate passed their bill on 12-23-2009 so the democrats starting talking then. Brown was elected on 01-19-2010 and reconciliation became an option that day.
50 days later maybe we have an agreement among the leadership of the democrats on what needs to be reconciled.
What a joke. I know reconciliation is a joke but at least they could get it written? This gives you a good idea of how much of a priority reconciliation is.
Oh yea and Obama decided late today that immigration reform was going to be pushed. He forgot when he was flexiable on that timeline that he needed hispanic caucus votes to pass HC.
I know recon goes nowhere but no vote will take place until this bill is produced. This whole process is becoming a joke.
Good Night
Wylie
I am not sure exactly if I should be scared of the democrats more because of their plans/desires or their incompetence in running the congress & white house.
More or less since 01-19-2010 the democrats have known that reconciliation is a their best chance for passing HC. Today the leadership of the house & senate & white house might actually have an agreement on what to reconcile. Maybe??
If true perhaps legislative language and a CBO score could be released by Monday. Maybe.
The senate passed their bill on 12-23-2009 so the democrats starting talking then. Brown was elected on 01-19-2010 and reconciliation became an option that day.
50 days later maybe we have an agreement among the leadership of the democrats on what needs to be reconciled.
What a joke. I know reconciliation is a joke but at least they could get it written? This gives you a good idea of how much of a priority reconciliation is.
Oh yea and Obama decided late today that immigration reform was going to be pushed. He forgot when he was flexiable on that timeline that he needed hispanic caucus votes to pass HC.
I know recon goes nowhere but no vote will take place until this bill is produced. This whole process is becoming a joke.
Good Night
I happened to have Leno on just now. Paraphrasing a joke from his monologue:
22% of people strongly approve of Barack Obama’s job performance, while 43% strongly disapprove…
the other 35% are reserving judgment until he actually does something.
HA!!
lucy is going to ruin the 2010 wave height if he gets behind CIR v.2010