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Mourdock Leads Lugar By 5% in IN

We have a new poll from Wenzel Strategies for the state of Indiana showing Richard Mourdock has moved into a 5% over the sitting incumbent US Senator Dick Lugar.

US SENATE – INDIANA – GOP PRIMARY (Wenzel)
Richard Mourdock 44%
Dick Lugar (inc) 39%

This poll was done April 24-25 among 601 likely primary voters. According to the article from Politico, this poll was paid for by Citizens United, who is backing Mourdock.

Posted by Dave at 11:44 am
Filed under: General | Comments (734)

734 Responses to “Mourdock Leads Lugar By 5% in IN”

  1. Apologetic California says:

    Look for Loogie to Specter.

  2. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Lugar is a goner

  3. SoHope says:

    Imagine one year ago I told you that:

    A man left his load gun sitting around the his house with a 4 year old and…

    A man let little kids from the neighborhood swim unattended in his pool and…

    A neighborhood watch captain was a suspicious looking person got out of his car and called the police and…

    HOW WOULD A REASONABLE PERSON EXPECT THESE STORIES TO END?

  4. addisonst says:

    Go Mourdock Go!!!!!

    What an upgrade he will be from Lugar.

  5. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Rasmussen has been asleep today. the Daily Tracking was released late and ditto the FL senate race

  6. addisonst says:

    Imagine one year ago I told you that:

    A man left his load gun sitting around the his house with a 4 year old and…

    A man let little kids from the neighborhood swim unattended in his pool and…

    A neighborhood watch captain was a suspicious looking person got out of his car and called the police and…

    Hope the first two are good.

    The third one needs to be updated to reflect reality.

    A neighborhood watch captain with two prior convictions for violent behavior,(Or is it only 1?), calls the police to say that a person who is walking on the street looks suspicious. The dispatcher says “ok we’ll take care of it” don’t follow him, and the caller follows him anyway.

  7. GF says:

    Go Mourdock!

    Here’s that DLCC page I mentioned earlier;

    http://www.dlcc.org/node/2448_DLCC_Poll_Shows_Democrats_Leading_Wisconsin_Senate_Recalls

    Love that “Get Local” map. Denial, anyone? Quite different from this map;

    http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/statevote-2011.aspx

  8. SoHope says:

    why enlighten us on Z’s past but not T’s.

    Also, what exactly did the operator say to Z? I thought he said we don’t NEED you to do that.

    You pretend that this is a case of “B” obviously follows “A”…not so in the last instance

  9. janz says:

    A little late on the Martin/Zimmerman discussion. But am still reposting my comment on the tail end of the last thread:

    I’ve been scrolling through the thread, and it has been mostly about the Martin/Zimmerman case. Have to say, I think Add is so off base in his perspective.

    Like someone already stated, Zimmerman as a voluntary watch person followed Martin because there had been a number of break-ins by black men. Martin, being a stranger, was of course ‘suspect.’ He was also just wondering around (loitering), and it seems appropriate that Zimmerman might want to keep an eye on him, which required following him. We had a similar situation in our neighborhood, a few years back, where a black man on a bicycle was involved in an home invasion, attacking an elderly woman. You better believe that the neighborhood hooked on every black man wondering around on a bicycle, for a time, after this happened. It’s human nature to be on alert when your neighborhood is experiencing an outbreak of crime.

    It also is unclear whether or not Zimmerman continued to follow him after being told to stand down by the 911 operator. His recorded response, though was, “OK,” which indicated he was not opposing that advice. According to Zimmerman, he was walking back to his vehicle when Trayvon confronted him, followed by the physical altercation.

    What we do know about Trayvon Martin, is that he was a big, mature looking teen (unlike the majority of the photos posted). He also had a history of school suspensions for marijuana use. Smoking weed makes a person more paranoid and also more irritable, with a shorter fuse. This drug profile alone would match a scenario where Trayvon would have been the aggressor.

    I could go on. But the bottom line, IMO, is that Martin has been groomed by a sympathetic media, a racially sensitive public to be the victim in this tragedy, making Zimmerman the fall guy. And, so far, I think it has been a far cry from neutral or fair-minded justice being exercised.

  10. Rockefeller Republican says:

    Mourdock seems like a good old-guard conservative. Lugar has only himself to blame – years of Potomac fever have caught up with him…

  11. janz says:

    #9 GF

    I winced when I read that piece you posted regarding the WI recall election. Boy, that would be throwing it into reverse if the dems were able to regain power, giving it all back to the unions!

  12. DrJay says:

    Still reading the last thread… but in florida:

    Justifiable Homicide

    The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if done while resisting an attempt by someone to kill you or to commit a felony against you.

    ————

    I suppose if it is deemed that Martin was committing felony battery, it would seem that according to Florida law, the homicide was justifiable.

    Certainly there is room for argument, and not some cut and dried case.

  13. addisonst says:

    Janz,

    I appreciate your reasoned response. I disagree w you on a couple of other points but I don’t think the defense will be arguing that ” This drug profile alone would match a scenario where Trayvon would have been the aggressor.”

    Marijuana does not tend to make one aggressive except for nachos and taco bell.

    The evidence is very clear that it was suggested to Z that he stop following and he did not stop.

    That is not illegal and I’ve never said it was. However it is a factor in how he got into a confrontation w Martin. And again it is very clear that Martin felt threatened. That would go to your paranoid point on pot, except that he was being followed and felt threatened and relayed his concern to his g/f.

    Which reminds me. What we had leaving Z out of the equation is a guy walking home, and talking to his g/f.

  14. SoHope says:

    zimmerman was clearing guilty according to this:

    http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2atp3iAGH1rtbzzao1_500.jpg

  15. Brandon says:

    Looks like the Florida poll isn’t coming today. Seems like the schedule was later changed to an immigration poll coming at noon and not the Florida poll. Weird.

  16. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    @17 strange, maybe they decided to post it tomm. w/ a FL Pres poll. thanks for the update.

  17. SoHope says:

    “The evidence is very clear that it was suggested to Z that he stop following and he did not stop.”

    ok…link?

  18. Bobby says:

    Met Mourdock at CPAC….total DBAG.

  19. SoHope says:

    Add, you must mean this “clear” proof:

    From the call released by the Sanford Police:

    At 2:07, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, “He’s running.”

    At 2:09, you can hear a car door open and an alarm begins that is undoubtedly the “door open, keys in ignition” warning on Zimmerman’s truck.

    At 2:13, you can clearly hear the car door slamming shut, and the alarm stops.

    At 2:17, Zimmerman’s voice wobbles and he starts breathing heavily into the phone, indicating that he has started running.

    At 2:22, without any prompting other than the aforementioned noises and breathing, the dispatcher asks “Are you following him?” to which Zimmerman responds, “Yeah.”

    At 2:26, the dispatcher says, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that,” to which Zimmerman responds, “Okay.”

    Zimmerman proceeds to give the dispatcher his name. Then he says, “He ran.”

    Zimmerman can still be heard breathing into the phone until about 2:39, at which point the heavy breathing stops entirely, a mere 13 seconds after the dispatcher asked him to stop following. A very calm and collected Zimmerman then proceeds to give the dispatcher his own information, directions and a description of his location for another 1 minute and 33 seconds.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/02/911-call-shows-zimmerman-stopped-following-martin-after-dispatchers-request-corroborates-story/#ixzz1tAH05sug

  20. janz says:

    Add

    I have an addiction studies background, as well as a son who is addicted to marijuana, So, my experience with this drug is both professional and personal. I can tell you that paranoia, irritability and a propensity for more violent behavior is part and parcel of the byproducts of marijuana smoking, especially given the greater chemical toxicity of the hybrids now being cultivated. In fact emergency rooms have experienced a greater influx of people coming in from the side-effects of marijuana indulgence. .

  21. Diogenes says:

    AZ law upheld. Democrats in senate attempt to race bait and shore up their illegal alien base this fall.

  22. Tim says:

    #13:
    Throwing what, exactly, into reverse? Wisconsin is last in the Country in job creation for 2011, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    So, Gov. Walker has pretty much been a failure. Yet he promised that his anti-labor policies would create 250,000 net private sector jobs by 2015. Well, where are the jobs? Why is his state dead last, even though one Party controls the whole state?

    So, there is one, and only one person to point the finger at, here. What a disgrace that bum is. I fervently hope he gets thrown out. And, I’d love to be the one who opens the door, and throws him out on his punk face.

    Other than that, I really don’t have much of an opinion on the subject

  23. addisonst says:

    Ok Janz. I haven’t smoked any since they improved it. So I defer on that. And he may well have been stoned. I don’t think there is a toxicology report out yet.

  24. Rip Van Winkle says:

    Is it 2015 already?

  25. addisonst says:

    Hope the filter isn’t letting me post the transcript.

    But yes it’s the part where they say “we don’t need you to do that” and he says ok.

    It’s very apparent in the transcript that Z is not in imminent harm.

    He says the guy is running away not toward him.

  26. addisonst says:

    Hi Dim Tim.

    Walker has cut property taxes balanced the budget and their bond rating has improved. I wish Illinois could trade govs. We raised taxes and our bond rating dropped.

  27. Diogenes says:

    You’re basing that off one year immediately after taking office? And yet somehow, Obama gets a pass after 4 years of miserable economic data.

    Your double standard reveals your bias. Walker will be fine at the end of his term. Changing Wisconsin’s business environment will make it vastly superior to Illinois which is literally a disaster area. When the pension busts comes, Chicago will literally implode.

    But that’s ok. Democrats only live one day at a time, cherry picking information instead of living in the real world.

  28. NYCmike says:

    20.Bobby says:
    April 26, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    Met Mourdock at CPAC….total DBAG.

    -In what way? if he is a vote against higher spending and more centralized control, what does it matter if he is a DBAG?

  29. Bitterlaw says:

    Tim – I find it hard to believe that Gov. Walker has not been a success considering the stable political climate in his state. I mean that his term has been characterized by recall after recall and private sector employers just love that kind of stability when deciding whether to hire people.

  30. EML says:

    Throwing what, exactly, into reverse? Wisconsin is last in the Country in job creation for 2011, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    So, Gov. Walker has pretty much been a failure. Yet he promised that his anti-labor policies would create 250,000 net private sector jobs by 2015. Well, where are the jobs? Why is his state dead last, even though one Party controls the whole state?
    ======================================
    Is this coming out of the mouth of the guy who is still blaming Bush for our current economic woes? Gov. Walker is supposed to fix the decades of damage done by Democratic administrations in 16 months?

  31. SoHope says:

    are you that dense to think that he couldn’t claim self-defense because he wasn’t in danger when he called the police and completely ignore that T was shot when Z’s head was bash in????

  32. MD says:

    Walker is going to win his recall and it is killing Tim.

  33. NYCmike says:

    “So, Gov. Walker has pretty much been a failure. Yet he promised that his anti-labor policies would create 250,000 net private sector jobs by 2015.”

    -Back to the Future? Is hITandrunMoocher REALLY Michael J Fox? Your own statement says 2015. What year is it in your world? Can you tell me what Dow Chemical’s stock price is? Maybe I should sell.

  34. SoHope says:

    …and after I called you out on your “clear” proof that he kept following, you ignore that the call backs up Z in that he stopped following T immediately after being told “we don’t need you to do that”.

  35. GF says:

    “Yet he promised that his anti-labor policies would create 250,000 net private sector jobs by 2015.”

    I had no idea that being a union hack/sycophant alone would be enough to create jobs. It certainly hadn’t helped in recent years as people left the state for greener pastures.

  36. Tim says:

    “cherry picking”? Hey, dude, other states have new Governors, as well. Other states had this Depression as well. Yet, Wisconsin is dead last, in job creation. Dead last. That means worse than all the other 49 states, and D.C.
    Many began to scream on here in ’09, “WHERE ARE THE JOBS?” Remember? Or, is your memory selective?

    Walker is the one who touted the jobs thing in speeches, all of last year. Well, then, where are the jobs?

    I know you’ll support him, simply because he’s a Republican. But, don’t try to get silly, and say he’s some kind of success that he is not.
    People want jobs. They ain’t there in Wisconsin. So, why shouldn’t he get blamed?

  37. MD says:

    The civil chaos created by the unions sure helped Job creation!

  38. GF says:

    Mind you, I am not against unions altogether, just that the public ones have WAY too much power and influence.

  39. Dead-Ender says:

    39- RINO alert! You used “civil” and “unions” in the same sentence!!!

  40. NYCmike says:

    Tim should teach the trolls. He gets everyone riled up, then disappears until his next hit and run. The trolls would last longer if they worked like that.

  41. SoHope says:

    16 seconds after being told that, Z calmly said “he RAN away” (not he IS RUNNING AWAY) and proceedeed to give his information for over 1 1/2 minutes.

  42. janz says:

    Tim, I guess it depends on the definition and measures applied denoting what success really is, dealing with policies and governance. In Walker’s case, he has been able to lower deficits, bringing budgets back into more normal ranges. Property taxes have also been lowered. As for jobs, there has been job growth, but I haven’t seen a chart where it is compared to other states.

    One month after the 2011-13 state budget was signed into law, tangible results from the reforms put in place by Governor Walker and the Legislature are being realized. According to media reports, local units of government and school districts have already saved more than $220 million, with millions more in potential savings not yet reported.

    The state is also adding jobs. Between December 2007 and December 2010, Wisconsin lost over 153,600 private sector jobs. The state has netted over 39,000 new private sector jobs since the Governor called a special session to open Wisconsin for business. The state has seen 14,100 manufacturing jobs created since January. In June Wisconsin had a net job creation of 9,500 new jobs, including nearly 13,000 private sector jobs. Only four states created more private sector jobs than Wisconsin did in the last month.

  43. EML says:

    After trying to tax Illinois to governmental solvency and economic dynamism, Pat Quinn, a Democrat who has been governor since 2009, now says “our rendezvous with reality has arrived.” Actually, Illinois is still reality-averse, so Americans may soon learn the importance of the freedom to fail in a system of competitive federalism.

    Illinois was more heavily taxed than the five contiguous states (Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) even before January 2011, when Quinn got a lame duck Legislature (its successor has fewer Democrats) to raise corporate taxes 30 percent (from 7.3 percent to 9.5 percent), giving Illinois one of the highest state corporate taxes, and the fourth highest combination of national and local corporate taxation in the industrialized world. Since 2009, Quinn has spent more than $500 million in corporate welfare to bribe companies not to flee the tax environment he has created.

    Quinn raised personal income taxes 67 percent (from 3 percent to 5 percent), adding about $1,040 to the tax burden of a family of four earning $60,000. Illinois’ unemployment rate increased faster than any other state’s in 2011. Its pension system is the nation’s most underfunded, and the state has floated bond issues to finance pension contributions. Quinn’s recent flirtation with realism — a plan to raise the retirement age to 67 and cap pension cost-of-living adjustments — is less significant than the continuing unrealistic expectation that some Illinois’ pension investments will grow 8.5 percent annually. Although the state Constitution mandates balancing the budget, this is almost meaningless while the state sells bonds to pay for operating expenses (in just 10 years the state’s bonded debt has increased from $9.4 billion to $30 billion), underfunds pensions and other liabilities, and makes vendors wait (they are owed $5.6 billion).

  44. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Hit and Run Tim strikes again, I agree MD it’s killing him the recall looks to be a failure

  45. Bitterlaw says:

    It’s very apparent in the transcript that Z is not in imminent harm. – Add

    In Add’s world, time stops and nothing changes. I guess the Titanic never hit an iceberg because the last wireless telegraph transmissions befroe 11:40 pm on April 14 were passenger transmissions.

  46. NYCmike says:

    Keeping taxes stable or lowering taxes is a NEGATIVE in Tim’s World.

  47. MD says:

    15,600 private jobs added in WI in the first Q of 12.

  48. Diogenes says:

    Cherry-picked stats is cherry picked stats.

    There is a huge amount of business uncertainty right now in Wisconsin. If I were a businessman in Wisconsin why would I hire right away? The GOP majority in the senate could easily be undone and Walker might lose. And with that the public unions would have the keys to exploiting me again and dramatically raise my costs.

    Of course Tim lives in a democratic world where you don’t think as a producer and supplier of goods and services and how to better serve others. As a democrat, his main question in life is, “What’s in it for me? Like TODAY.”

  49. Tim says:

    #31:
    Sure, Bitterlaw. Because the place that gave birth to the Public Employee Unions should stand by, while these right-wing big business boys destroy Unions for political reasons, in this Country.

    If Walker had said he was going to do what he did, he would not have even been elected.

    We will not stand by and take it.

    I find it amazing that you approve of a Party that demands so much in concessions from working people. Yet, you think it a mortal sin when someone on our side asks the super rich for sacrifice.

  50. EML says:

    Tim believes a job should only be counted if it’s a government job.

  51. Tim says:

    #52:
    And, you believe that someone only counts if they have millions in stock options.

  52. EML says:

    Public sector unions should be outlawed. They are nothing more than a way to funnel taxpayer money to Democratic lawmakers via union dues.

  53. MD says:

    Jobs growth was negative while the unions were creating chaos in WI. Nice try tim.

  54. NYCmike says:

    “working people” – defined as those who get net dollars from the government

    Is this correct, MoocherTim?

  55. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Tim still can’t face what an economic failure FDR was (who btw opposed public unions), it’s obvious he can’t come to grips with reality.

  56. janz says:

    Also, Tim, politicians often tout rosy predictions on what will happen. But, then reality intervenes. Just look at Obama and all his hyperbole on what the UE would be after the infusion of the stimulus!

    Walker may not have met that 250,000 job creation number you are quoting. But, the state is at least going in the right direction, economically. With all these constant recalls, union protests etc., though, it does put a crimp of distractions in one’s focus, don’t you think?

  57. NYCmike says:

    53.Tim says:
    April 26, 2012 at 12:58 pm
    #52:
    And, you believe that someone only counts if they have millions in stock options.

    -Ridiculous statement!

  58. Tim says:

    #54:
    Why not outlaw the Chamber of Commerce, which oversees the privilieges of only Business, while buying off more politicians than Labor ever has?

  59. MD says:

    Walker is going to win and millions of union dies from non WI residents will have been wasted.

  60. EML says:

    Delaware was last in job creation in 2011.

  61. Dead-Ender says:

    Yet, you think it a mortal sin when someone on our side asks the super rich for sacrifice.

    ****************************************

    Because 50% combined between local, state and federal taxes is surely not enough. Crucify the rich, burn them alive!!!

    ****************************************

    If Walker had said he was going to do what he did, he would not have even been elected.

    ****************************************

    Biggest lie of the recall-mania. Scott Walker did say quite clearly what he was going to do. I saw it in his ads and personal appearances. Just what did you Pinkos think he meant when he said that he was going to restructure state government and limit union powers?

  62. Tim says:

    #59:
    No more ridiculous than the statement in #52.

  63. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Tim’s crying come June when walker wins will be epic. His tears will be delicious.

  64. NYCmike says:

    janz,
    In Tim’s own statement he says that Walker said by 2015. He is ridiculous.

  65. MD says:

    NYC Mike

    When desperate, he goes right to the class warfare crap. They wonder why we call them Marxists.

  66. jason says:

    ” I find it amazing that you approve of a Party that demands so much in concessions from working people. Yet, you think it a mortal sin when someone on our side asks the super rich for sacrifice.”

    And Tim still complain when we call Dems Marxists… 8)

    Super rich: small business making $250k a year.

  67. NYCmike says:

    Tim,
    #52 was MEANT to be a joke.

  68. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    I gotta say impressive to finally see Tim actually sicking around instead of doing his usual hit and run

  69. SoHope says:

    35.“So, Gov. Walker has pretty much been a failure. Yet he promised that his anti-labor policies would create 250,000 net private sector jobs by 2015.”

    is it 2015 already???

    and didn’t Obama promise that if he got his big government spending that unemployment wouldn’t go over 8%?

  70. Tim says:

    #58:
    Yeah, and look what you do to Obama on account of his job creation failures. Yet, Walker gets a pass, just because he’s a Republican, like yourself. Isn’t that about it?

  71. jason says:

    And Tim, working people are the ones being ripped off by fat cat unions and big labor.

  72. NYCmike says:

    Tim,
    Did FDR support public unions?

  73. Tim says:

    #69:
    And, so was #53. Duh…..

  74. EML says:

    Why not outlaw the Chamber of Commerce, which oversees the privilieges of only Business, while buying off more politicians than Labor ever has?

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:00 pm
    =====================================
    #1, bull$hit. Public sector unions are the #1 biggest contributor to Democratic lawmakers.

    #2, the chamber of commerce is part of government, as state employees are.

  75. Tim says:

    #74:
    No. I do. Does that clear that up, for you?

  76. jason says:

    Walker ran on a platform of cutting expenditures and reducing union power.
    He kept his word.

  77. EML says:

    64.#59:
    No more ridiculous than the statement in #52.

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:01 pm
    ==================================
    Yes, it is. Public sector unions are a fraud. Their sole purpose is to funnel taxpayer money to Democratic lawmakers. They are sending IL, CA, and NY into bankruptcy as we speak.

  78. MD says:

    I repeat – 15 600 private jobs created in WI in the first Q of 12

  79. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    gallup is asleep at the wheel too, what’s up with the pollsters today?

  80. jason says:

    So Tim is ok with public unions ripping off the taxpayers, no problem.

    The taxpayers of WI are not “working people” they are all “super rich”.

    Now it’s clear.

    Time is just advocating a transfer of wealth from the super rich to the public unions.

  81. Tim says:

    #76:
    Make it simpler. Here’s your thing. Unions support Democrats. So, they must be destroyed. And, you don’t just mean Public Unions, either. You mean to destroy all of them. Every last one. Because, it will help Republicans.

    Why don’t you just admit that?

  82. NYCmike says:

    #72 – Walker does not get a pass. He gets a CONGRATULATIONS from the citizens of Wisconsin when he wins the recall. His policies lowered or kept taxes stable, the employees of WI now have a CHOICE if they give money to their leadership, and the KOCH brothers RULE!!!
    (That last one is just for fun!)

  83. EML says:

    80 – Tim doesn’t want to hear facts, he just wants to spout Democratic lies.

  84. SoHope says:

    Thats 15.600,00 jobs for those of you from France.

  85. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    >>And, you don’t just mean Public Unions, either. You mean to destroy all of them.<<

    LMAO, what planet do you come from?

  86. jason says:

    Well at least we get a break from responding to the ficus’ lynching of George Zimmerman and defense of the “growing economy”, we can beat up on Tim.

  87. SoHope says:

    America would be better if all states were RTW.

  88. Tim'sHelper says:

    Koch Brothers! Bush bad!

  89. EML says:

    83.#76:
    Make it simpler. Here’s your thing. Unions support Democrats. So, they must be destroyed. And, you don’t just mean Public Unions, either. You mean to destroy all of them. Every last one. Because, it will help Republicans.

    Why don’t you just admit that?

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:06 pm
    =====================================
    No, first off, like I said, public unions are a fraud. They only exist to funnel taxpayer money to Democratic lawmakers. They essentially bribe Democrats, who then turn around and give them huge unaffordable perks. I would love if I could hand my manager $20 and have him give me a $20,000 raise, but the real world doesn’t work like that. Only in the world of public sector unions.

    Second, Public unions are destroying my state and costing me thousands of dollars. THAT’S why they should be outlawed. They are destroying the country.

  90. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    @89 amen

  91. janz says:

    Tim

    It’s the uber rich who are taking this country down. It’s the underfunded entitlement programs, including the pie-in-the-sky pensions that are undercutting many state’s economies — CA and Illinois are prime examples of this. Bloated, expanding government is at the root of so many of our problems.

    The GSA, for example has a 10 billion dollar unsupervised slush fund, in which to operate. According to some recent stats, there have been something like 1400 government buildings standing empty, earmarked to be sold. In the past decade only 80 of these have been processed for sale. Now this encompasses both R and D administrations. But, it is still under the title of big government.

    There is so much that can be consolidated, revamped, updated, stricken from government that will make it function more efficiently and prudently. But, under both democratic and/or republican regimes, who refuse to tackle the real problems, such problems are only layering themselves, one on top of the other.

  92. Tim says:

    #82:
    Yeah, you think if a working person gets a decent wage and benefits, then it must be bad for America.

    How about Walker living in that Governor’s mansion, and it costing $1 million per year? Who pays for that?

    How about Public Employees taking a $117 million hit in the 2011 budget, and a corporate tax cut in the same amount in the same budget? Who payed for that?

  93. NYCmike says:

    77.Tim says:
    April 26, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    #74:
    No. I do. Does that clear that up, for you?

    -So I guess FDR wanted to DESTROY ALL unions then, as well?

  94. Tim says:

    No, he did not.

    Do you? And, if you don’t, then do you deny that your Party wants to?

  95. SoHope says:

    I am on a roll with Author. That is 2 amen’s today.

    If I get a “shuck that corn” my job will be done :)

  96. EML says:

    94.#82:
    Yeah, you think if a working person gets a decent wage and benefits, then it must be bad for America.
    =====================================
    I’m a working person who gets a decent wage and benefits. I don’t need a union for that.

    What’s more, even if I did join the union, I wouldn’t be taking TAXPAYER money, handing off as union dues, then seeing that money given to Democratic lawmakers.

    You seem to forget that the government of this country is for the people, not for the government workers.

  97. MD says:

    I want to destroy e Rey public union.

  98. NYCmike says:

    How about Public Employees taking a $117 million hit in the 2011 budget, and a corporate tax cut in the same amount in the same budget? Who payed for that?

    -Tax-payers did NOT!!

  99. jason says:

    Tim let’s have right to work everywhere and let’s make union expenditures accountable to their members.

    THEN let’s see how much money they will have to pay for fat cat executives and political campaigns.

  100. MD says:

    Whoops. Destroy all public unions.

  101. SoHope says:

    shuck that corn, MD!

  102. Nat Cole says:

    102- Hit that jive, Jack! ;-)

  103. Tim says:

    #80:
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics info was for the period of March, 2011, through March, 2012. That takes in your first quarter of this year results.

    Now, what?

  104. jason says:

    ” Public sector unions are a fraud. Their sole purpose is to funnel taxpayer money to Democratic lawmakers. ”

    Tim has no problem with that.

    All the taxpayers are super rich.

    It’s called redistribution of wealth.

  105. NYCmike says:

    The Republican Party would probably look to lessen the POWER of all PUBLIC UNIONS, that is probably true. The Republican Party would like to give businesses options when it comes to having to deal with private unions, I would assume. I agree with that.
    For most industries, I don’t think unions are needed. I DO support some unions, and NOT because my brother-in-law is a member of one. In NYC, we have the Local 3 Electricians Union. They have actually done studies in regards to their work, which I have read. While the cost of construction may be higher, insurance tends to be cheaper because there are such stringent rules when building. The builder usually can make up the costs later. That said, if they can build units like they have overseas, when whole square units are constructed off-site, and trucked to the site, with electric and plumbing already installed, I may have to tell my Bro-in-law to look into a different field of work.

  106. MD says:

    Already covered that Tim. The unions created chaos and it took a while to recover. Next?

  107. MD says:

    I want all public unions banned but know we will have to exempt police and fire for a bit.

  108. MD says:

    Did Obama put on his comfy shoes and march in WI?

  109. EML says:

    Follow the MONEY.

    I earn MONEY working hard at my job that actually produces something (unlike what you can say for government bureaucrats).

    The state takes my MONEY (in the form of taxes). And since I live in a Dem state, that is a high amount of taxes.

    My MONEY is then used to pay state employees.

    Public sector unions take dues from public employees. This is my MONEY which was used to pay the employees.

    Those dues (my MONEY) are then used to bribe Democratic lawmakers in the form of campaign contributions.

    Once elected, Democratic lawmakers collaborate with the unions that elected them to raise wages and benefits which in turn cause taxes to be raised, which means more of my MONEY goes to pay Democratic lawmakers.

    And the cycle continues.

  110. NYCmike says:

    The stories my Dad and Uncle tell about crossing picket lines are the stuff of DREAMS! Always a good nights sleep after that! NOT because we were harming their employment, but because they DARED to restrict our attempt to make a living! And we BEAT them!

  111. NYCmike says:

    How about Public Employees taking a $117 million hit in the 2011 budget, and a corporate tax cut in the same amount in the same budget? Who payed for that?

    -Tax-payers did NOT!!

    Tim,
    Did I get this answer correct? Who paid??

  112. Po-po Union Goon says:

    I want all public unions banned but know we will have to exempt police and fire for a bit.

    Comment by MD — April 26, 2012 @ 1:22 pm

    And when they finally came for me, there was nobody to stand up for me because I didn’t stand up for them…

  113. Bitterlaw says:

    Tim – I have said that I would allow public unions. I also support the right of government negotiators to go to the bargaining table, flip it over, scream “GFY. We’re broke.” and walk out.

  114. Tim says:

    #98:

    Bear’s ass. You remind me of that line from “Animal Farm”——“Some pigs are created more equal than others”.

    These Public Employees are teachers, firefighters, cops,, etc. This man took food off their collective tables.

    Tell me this. Why were the Unions stripped of their collective bargaining rights, even though they had already agreed to the cuts the Governor demanded?

  115. jason says:

    Gallup 50/44

    Obama 50 (0)
    Romney 43 (+1)

  116. jenny-the conservative movement is dead says:

    why is obama getting a bump?

  117. Bitterlaw says:

    I would love to hear Tim’s definition of “decent wage and benefits.” $150k for a school custodian and $0 contribution from the employee is probably a start.

  118. jason says:

    ” These Public Employees are teachers, firefighters, cops,, etc. This man took food off their collective tables. ”

    BS

    It curtailed rights to hold the taxpayers hostage in the future.

  119. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – given the exciting exchange, should we delay the announcement of our new member?

  120. jason says:

    111. Excellent.

    A real argument, while Tim talks about the proletariat being abused by the evil bosses.

    Oh wait, the bosses are the taxpayers.

  121. SoHope says:

    #122. to be fair only 50% of the bosses actually pay taxes.

  122. Tim says:

    #113:
    So, those tens of thousands of Public Employees are not taxpayers? Curious……

  123. GF says:

    I heard about this new member earlier. As a mere honorary member, I know I have no vote in the proceedings, but would have hoped to hear about it sooner (MD, you got me on FB!!!). Please tell me that we’ve scored a major coup, perhaps even an erstwhile HOBO insider, to weaken them critically?

  124. EML says:

    116.#98:

    Bear’s ass. You remind me of that line from “Animal Farm”——”Some pigs are created more equal than others”.

    These Public Employees are teachers, firefighters, cops,, etc. This man took food off their collective tables.

    Tell me this. Why were the Unions stripped of their collective bargaining rights, even though they had already agreed to the cuts the Governor demanded?

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:28 pm
    ======================================
    Ah, yes, the good ole sob story. Poor teachers, firemen, and policemen won’t get their guaranteed 6% yearly raises. I’ve heard this BS before.

    It happened about 3 years ago. The local fire department wanted to build a new $4 million Taj Mahal. Usually these things skate on through as only firemen and their families come out to vote to screw the taxpayers. But not this time. The taxpayers came out and said no.

    You should’ve seen the vitriol in the newspaper. We hate firemen and want them to die. We are going to lose all our volunteers because the town hates firemen. Service will be slower and people will die.

    It came up for a vote again. Again the taxpayers stood up for themselves and voted it down. More of the same vitriol spewed forth out of the mouths of the liberals. But we won.

    Here we are 3 years later. Service hasn’t dropped. Firemen are still volunteering. Everything is just fine. We just saved ourselves from spending $4 million. A rare win for the taxpayers.

  125. Tim says:

    #122:
    Actually, they are abused by the GOP, who represents another class, in this Country. And, they have proved that, with their legislation. You deny that?

  126. EML says:

    124.#113:
    So, those tens of thousands of Public Employees are not taxpayers? Curious……

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:34 pm
    ======================================
    They do make up a percentage of taxpayers. What’s your point?

  127. lisab says:

    i am on a neighborhood watch

    and when i see 5 weirdos dressed in togas stabbing a guy in the middle of the park in full view of 100 people, i shoot the bastards. that’s *my* policy

  128. Bitterlaw says:

    Tim – those taxpayers perform valuable services (police, fire, teachers). However, only private employers generate revenue for the state. Public employees take money from the state. They do not create jobs except as consumers of the goods and services provided by private business.

  129. EML says:

    127.#122:
    Actually, they are abused by the GOP, who represents another class, in this Country. And, they have proved that, with their legislation. You deny that?

    Comment by Tim — April 26, 2012 @ 1:35 pm
    ==================================
    Yes, I deny that. Encouraging people to stand up for themselves and be responsible for their own success instead of depending on government to provide for your every need does not equal abuse. You are so demented it’s not even funny.

  130. MD says:

    It is an inherent conflict to elect the same people that you are supposed to negotiate against. All public unions should be banned.

  131. NYCmike says:

    Tim,

    Maybe you should read the reasons why FDR was opposed to public unions. Maybe your hero will make more sense to you.
    I have a friend who drives a train for the NYC subway. He is a big Obama supporter, for his own reasons, although he is probably more libertarian than I am. Whenever we discuss his union, he sits back and laughs. He tells me straight out that his leadership is engaged in extortion with the politicians who support them. The transit workers get good raises from the politicians, the tax dues go to the leadership, the leadership donates money to the politicians, the transit workers vote for those politicians who gave them good raises. It is a circle. Walker dared to disrupt the circle-jerk.
    HE IS A HERO!

  132. jason says:

    123. Right, I forgot that. 50% of the bosses are being subsidized by the 50% who pay taxes.

    And who pay for public union fat cats to spend millions bribing people to create more public union fat cats.

    Fortunately, they are all “super rich” and can afford it.

  133. Bitterlaw says:

    Please tell me that we’ve scored a major coup, perhaps even an erstwhile HOBO insider, to weaken them critically?

    GF – It will be a huge! It is quite a catch.

  134. MD says:

    133 – see 132

  135. Walt says:

    Fox News one-hour documentary: Stealing Your Vote | Election Integrity Project
    http://www.electionintegrityproject.c?om

  136. Tim says:

    #126:

    http://www.danagoldstein.net/dana_goldstein/2011/02/reality-check-wisconsin-unions-have-already-agreed-to-major-concessions.html

    As reported by the Milwaukee newspaper, accoring to this article. This is what I was talking about. It has not one thing to do with whatever the hell you’re babbling about.

  137. NYCmike says:

    the public sector workers paid a portion of their salary to fund their OWN BENEFITS!!!! JUST LIKE THE REST OF US! you are dense!

  138. lisab says:

    “And again it is very clear that Martin felt threatened. ”

    when he was bashing zimmerman’s head into the ground?

  139. MD says:

    Bitter

    We have a problem. One of the committee members has used his veto. Ironically it goes back to the posters issues on WI. We will have to work on this some more.

  140. NYCmike says:

    #136 – I get paid by the word!

  141. Tim says:

    #134:
    Fat cats? Geez. You really believe nonsense like that?

  142. jason says:

    The vitriol Tim has against Walker is explainable.

    He is a real threat to those who have banqueting at the taxpayer’s trough for decades.

    He cannot be allowed to succeed.

  143. MD says:

    You need cost certainty.

  144. NYCmike says:

    How about Public Employees taking a $117 million hit in the 2011 budget, and a corporate tax cut in the same amount in the same budget? Who payed for that?

    -How dare a person have to pay for his own benefits! Oh the HORROR!

  145. jason says:

    “If the committee members has used his veto. Ironically it goes back to the posters issues on WI. ”

    Tim was going to be inducted???

  146. j. hoffa says:

    ” Fat cats? Geez. You really believe nonsense like that?”

    Yeah, are you crazy?

  147. Tim says:

    #133:
    I don’t agree with every last thing that FDR stood for/against.

    OKay. I really know how to expand a thread, eh? I gotta go, guys. I have to get back to the salt mines.

    This was fun. You guys are fun. You stick, and you give out as good as you get. Good for you.

    Man, I love this site……..

  148. EML says:

    These Public Employees are teachers, firefighters, cops,, etc. This man took food off their collective tables.
    =====================================
    And the unions and their Democratic cohorts are taking food off of mine and all the other taxpayers tables.

    Taxpayers are stretched to the limit. It is clear that we have let government go out of control. It is severely bloated and we cannot afford the government we have built. The cuts need to come from somewhere. The unaffordable retirement benefits we have given to state workers is the logical place to start, and it’s what Cuomo is doing here in NY. So I guess you hate Cuomo too?

  149. NYCmike says:

    Tim,
    And that corporate tax cut may have kept some companies from moving/going out of business, which may have benefitted some private Union workers. Have you ever thought about that??

  150. NYCmike says:

    Cuomo is a charlatan. Let’s see 5 years from now if any of his changes are lasting ones!!

  151. jason says:

    Here Tim, Rep Chaka Fattah (D-PA) would like to help me make my point.

    “We’re headed in the right direction. Unemployment continues to drop and those people who are unemployed, they’re not going to be voting for the party who wants to cut their benefits, cut access to food stamps, cut job training,” Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-PA) said on MSNBC’s Al Sharpton program

  152. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – I understand the concern but Philly A-holes are defined by attitude and combat skillz. Ideological purity should not be a factor unless it is an issue of sanity (e.g. Bunu). Our candidate had attacked almost everybody at HHR at one time or another. You can’t discount that kind of experience.

  153. GF says:

    Not only are the public employees circling the money around (since the taxes that they pay come directly from the treasury anyway), but as a percentage of the overall workforce, they are a trifling amount (yet still enough to cause huge budgetary problems). Unionized workers account for no more than 1 out of 8 overall, yet the other 7/8 must work their arses off to support them. What is worse is that public employee union members now constitute a little over half of the total union force (something like 51.5%), so in reality, the private sector unions make up just 6% of the workforce.

    When 6% can dictate to the other 94% how things are going to be, much less live better than most of them at their expense, the idea of fairness is thrown out the window.

  154. SoHope says:

    or when he turned around and found Z would had given up following.

  155. Ficus says:

    Thanks Tim.

    I was having my ass handed to me on a platter, thanks for distracting everyone.

  156. DW says:

    Obama 50 (0)
    Romney 43 (+1)

    Comment by jason — April 26, 2012 @ 1:28 pm

    I don’t see this on the website. The last they show is yesterday’s at 49/43 for Obama.

  157. Japanese-American Citizens says:

    I don’t agree with every last thing that FDR stood for/against.
    ****************************************

    Yeah, we didn’t either.

  158. GF says:

    That was fun, I have to admit. Out for appointments, be back later (hope I don’t miss the Philly A-Hole announcement).

  159. janz says:

    correction for #92’s post:

    It’s not the uber rich who are taking this country down. It’s the underfunded entitlement programs, including the pie-in-the-sky pensions that are undercutting many state’s economies.

    I’m kind of surprised by some your comments Tim. Even though I know you are a dem, you’ve always seemed ‘moderate’ to me in your general viewpoints. Today, though, there has definitely been a turn towards the old ‘rich against the poor’ meme. Class warfare was FDR’s major arm twist in the 30’s, which totally distorted business, markets, union power, and in many modern analysis of the Great Depression, it has been ascertained such big government intrusions and maneuvers only extended the bad times. It was only through war and the death of FDR did the US finally get into recovery groove.

    How has Obama’s current arm twists been positive for this country? How has the extended powers of the EPA, which have led to grinding many businesses to either going out of business or going overseas, been good for this country? How has the extension of UE payments to incredible lengths of time, encouraged people to seek work? The latest Dept of Labor’s takeover now includes regulating family labor on family farms. This, by far and away, should make people’s hair stand on end. Children will be banned from even holding flash lights. 4H clubs will now have to have safty certification through government programs, other than through the 4H Clubs themselves. All of this so that more farms will have to hire outside labor which can be unionized, and government controlled. I find this such an overreachof government!

    What’s next!!!!! A permit to trim you own fingernails!

    Get a grip Tim, because eventually you will be negatively impacted, too, by the very government you so often extoll. But, as long as you’re not then it will ideologically seem great to you!

  160. Walt says:

    So Tim has left the field.

    Is Add still around?

  161. Walt says:

    I earlier submitted two posts and neither has appeared. Dave must be mad at me. And I even left a response on his FB post that I was happy the Capitals won.

  162. MD says:

    Janz

    In the end, they are all Marxists. Every last one of them.

  163. MD says:

    I always thought that others would pay my benefits. Then, we took so much that the “others” didn’t have anything left.

  164. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    anyone notice this “Strong And Secure America” theme for Obama 2012? I think its a retread against Mitt’s “Better America”

  165. lisab says:

    “It is an inherent conflict to elect the same people that you are supposed to negotiate against. All public unions should be banned.”

    so ban public unions from contributing to campaigns

    they still protect their membership from abuse

  166. Walt says:

    Five things must happen to really cause the economy to ignite again.

    1. SCOTUS throw ObammerCare in the trash can

    2. transportation and energy costs must come down–A LOT.

    3. Obammer stop his EPA war on coal, oil, natiural gas

    4. Cut federal spending across the board

    5. Obammer and other Ds must stop the crazy “let’s raise taxes” meme.
    ****************************************
    #1 is the only thing I see that might happen. before November.

    Economy will struggle until after GE.

  167. EML says:

    I don’t belong to a union and I don’t get abused.

  168. lisab says:

    “So, my experience with this drug is both professional and personal. I can tell you that paranoia, irritability and a propensity for more violent behavior is part and parcel of the byproducts of marijuana smoking, ….”

    it has been found that marijuana greatly increases psychosis

  169. NYCmike says:

    Capitals win, I hope they play the Rangers next! And I hope the Devils play the Flyers, that will be fun!

  170. janz says:

    MD

    That appears to be the case, that ideology wins out over pragmatic logic. It’s all about the ‘theory’ of what is ‘fair,’ rather than the results of the theory. Even if the country goes down the drain, they come up with a whole different etiology of ‘what happened.’ You would think that by casually looking at western Europe, there could be some guideposts as to what happens to nanny states when they eventually run out of the uber rich’s money!

  171. Walt says:

    EML–
    If you want or need to get abused, just drop by and airport and go through TSA security.

  172. lisab says:

    “I don’t belong to a union and I don’t get abused.”

    school districts are a monopsony

    without a union they could decide to drop a teacher’s pay by 50%

    a computer programmer could just quit and get another job down the street … a teacher would have to move to a different county or even state … where they would face the same monopsony

  173. lisab says:

    “Capitals win”

    they cheated

  174. Tony says:

    So is Luger liked or not on this blog?

    I would bet most here would not like Mourdock.

  175. janz says:

    In the meantime…

    It appears that top Romney fundraiser doners are coming out of the woodwork.

    I think people are downright scared about the possibility of an Obama 2nd term. Considering the wreakage of his first, you might as well just pack it in and become unemployed if he receives a noxious nod for a second one!

  176. Walt says:

    If the applicant was otherwise qualified, does a church have the right to refuse to hire a:

    gay, lesbian, transgender, etc.

    person who also works another job as a stripper

    practicing wiccan

    smoker

    drinker

    someone who is living with another person out of wedlock?

    ex convict
    ************************************
    Same question for a person who owns a business. If appicant is otherwise qualified should they be allowed to NOT hire any of the above?

  177. NYCmike says:

    I am part of ownership/management. We have not laid anyone off in the last 4 years, in fact management has seen their salaries stay constant but lost bonuses. Most employees have been given raises.
    About 30 years ago, some of the workers tried to organize. My Dad took them out the night before for a dinner and drinks, paid the bill for the whole night. One of the reasons the vote lost was because some of the pro-union workers were too hungover to make it into work (actually, this was quite common, dealt with some real winners). My Dad went to confession that weekend. Hasn’t thought about it since he cleansed his soul. It’s good to be a Catholic!

  178. lisab says:

    “If appicant is otherwise qualified should they be allowed to NOT hire any of the above?”

    smoker, drinker, ex-con … yes

    otherwise no

  179. janz says:

    Hey, Tim, this will certainly help more small business owners try to stay afloat! Oh, but I guess they are the ones with money. So, it’s ripe for the taking. That is such a dumb a** philosophy, IMO! It’s like robbing the piggy bank daily, never figuring it will be empty…and, then what?

    Terrific, Senate dems offset cost of student loan bill with higher taxes on small business.

  180. NYCmike says:

    #179 – that is why I always interview at least 3 – 5 people. That way, there will always be another reason for not hiring someone.

  181. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    is that all they think about? taxing?

  182. EML says:

    without a union they could decide to drop a teacher’s pay by 50%
    ======================================
    In theory, this applies to every job everywhere. Employers don’t do this because they want to retain employees. Your argument is invalid.

  183. Walt says:

    DRUDGE

    Fla Judge Declares State Worker Drug Testing Unconstitutional…

  184. Bitterlaw says:

    a teacher would have to move to a different county or even state . . . .

    or to the real world.

  185. janz says:

    The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel, are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur. Vince Lombardi

    Hopefully this will work for Romney.

  186. NYCmike says:

    #181 – you are really influenced by popular culture/political correctness.

  187. EML says:

    a computer programmer could just quit and get another job down the street … a teacher would have to move to a different county or even state … where they would face the same monopsony
    =====================================
    Yeah because just like teaching, there is a job for computer programmers everywhere in the country. :rolleyes:. If I lost my job here, there a very few places I could go to stay in my same field. St. Louis, Philadelphia, Seattle, Marietta, Fort Worth. About it.

    And you don’t have to move to teach in another school district. My county has 11 school districts.

  188. Walt says:

    NYCmike–

    That’s the way it is…in lisab world.

  189. Diogenes says:

    Unions are a massive economic distortion. Even in countries where they cooperate with business (i.e. Germany). They are also antiquated. They made more sense in an industrial economy where workers as a whole contribute value together (like in a factory) and thus want to negotiate together. In a service-based economy, it is pointless; a workers individual value is easier to discern and compensate accordingly.

    At best, unions create a rigid economy that is slower to adapt. At worse, they introduce huge graft and corruption into the system.

    I would never join a union because I am a winner. I work harder and smarter than the next guy and expect my dues. Why the hell would I work at all if I were in a union? Just work as hard as the dumbest chump in the factory.

    Democrats: using the thinking and tools of 19th century marxism. Too bad the world has moved on in so many ways.

  190. jason says:

    Whoops…

    I like Lugers too

  191. NYCmike says:

    #190 – a good teacher will always find work! It is the bad and/or mediocre ones who the union is defending and being bankrolled by!

  192. janz says:

    NYCmike

    Your business model reminds me of Gibson Guitar. They didn’t have a union shop, all employees were happy. So, the only recourse for the government, to shake the place up, was to come in and dicker about the wood they were using for their guitars.

  193. EML says:

    lisa thinks in entitlements like Tim. She is entitled to live and work in the town she wants and once she has a job working in that school, she should never have to lose that job for any reason. She is entitled for life.

  194. SoHope says:

    lisab, they could also teach private school, college, neighboring county, or work in a different field…

    labor must follow supply and demand.

    If county A cuts teacher pay it’s neighbors will scoop up the good ones with better relative pay.

  195. NYCmike says:

    janz,
    Another lesson my Dad always drummed into us was to pay your workers first, then you get what is left. It was up to you to work/hustle hard enough to make sure you ate that night.

  196. NYCmike says:

    CC

  197. Conner says:

    I would be sympathetic to unions if someone could answer this straightforward question:

    89% of the US workforce is not unionized. What’s so special about the other 11%?

  198. jason says:

    ” without a union they could decide to drop a teacher’s pay by 50% ”

    Really? And then what would happen?

    1) You wouldn’t have enough teachers
    2) You would have to raise salaries to get teachers

    What a novel idea…..

  199. bio mom says:

    117

    I think that is incorrect. If Romney gained one he is at 44. If Obama stayed the same he would be at 49.

  200. SoHope says:

    school boards are already accountable…to the voters! teacher unions are not needed for anything other than defrauding tax payers.

  201. jason says:

    ” What’s so special about the other 11%?”

    Someone could decide to cut their salaries 50%.

  202. Smart Alec says:

    “I would be sympathetic to unions if someone could answer this straightforward question:

    89% of the US workforce is not unionized. What’s so special about the other 11%?”

    nothing…

    The question having been duly answered, Conner is now a union sympathizer.

  203. SoHope says:

    the 11% are in more danger of being raped by their bosses…according to lisab

  204. jason says:

    203. You are half right…

    Presidential Election

    Obama
    49%

    Romney
    43%
    +1

  205. jason says:

    I should have said 49 (0)
    but the 43 (+1) is correct

  206. jason says:

    Supposedly Conner is Wobbie Trolll….

  207. janz says:

    #199 NYCmike

    Your father runs his business like we run ours. After all, it is the workers who add to the success of a business model. Therefore, it is only sensible that the employer provides a reciprocal relationship of trust, profitable livelihood, respect, and gratitude for good work that is done.

  208. Walt says:

    Calling SusyQue…

    Janz said “dicker”…

  209. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – Convene the Board. Riots could break out if we proceed as planned. Of course, we don’t care but the Board likes meetings.

  210. MD says:

    177 – No. Most here like him.

    As for why you were banned in the past, it is probably because you have used multiple handles. That and being way over the top obscene are the only 2 reasons Dave has ever banned anyone.

  211. Bitterlaw says:

    Great. janz and NYCmike are sitting around the 1% Club talking about how much they love the little people.

  212. ssq's bot says:

    “Calling SusyQue…

    Janz said “dicker”

    She ain’t here.

    She is out at a prayer meeting, but then she is going to protest Joe Biden for saying Obama has a big stick.

  213. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – I still vote yes on our new member. Heads will explode.

  214. MD says:

    Bitter

    I am on the ledge here. The head of the membership committee almost stripped ME of my membership. It is a firm NO. Sorry.

    This thread was the nail in that coffin.

  215. janz says:

    correction to Bitter’s post:

    Great. janz and NYCmike are sitting around the 99% Club talking about how much they love the productive people in their business.

  216. jason says:

    I agree. If I can’t be a member nobody can. I vote NO too.

    ps: At large vote.

  217. jason says:

    219. You have to be careful.

    I had already started hating them.

  218. MD says:

    220 – How do you know it wasn’t about you?

  219. janz says:

    I don’t see how Dave could be banning people for using too many handles, as that goes on here all the time. It is virtually a rotating label-maker on names.

  220. MD says:

    Funny. I have 2 union clients. Both are private, not public.

  221. Multiple Handle Man says:

    “I don’t see how Dave could be banning people for using too many handles, as that goes on here all the time. It is virtually a rotating label-maker on names.”

    You lie!

  222. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – you mf-er. You tell the Board that they owe me $57.50 for the “SUSYQUE is a Philly A-hole!” cake. I will expense it.

  223. MD says:

    janz – if you are doing it as an obvious joke that is one thing. Like MFG’s 95 handles. We all know it is him and he knows we know. It is the one’s who try to manipulate that Dave bans. Also, if anyone tries to take someone else’s handle.

  224. jason says:

    ” I would bet most here would not like Mourdock.”

    He seems ok, but I would make him change his name before I allowed him in the Senate.

    I mean nobody should have a name where you change two letters and you are Senator Sourdick.

    That is why I have been holding out for Dockmore to support him.

  225. DW says:

    208…those are yesterday’s numbers.

  226. MD says:

    226 – You are starting rumors.

  227. Bitterlaw says:

    Janz – the only people who should be banned are those who use other people’s handles. Our extra Brandon should get booted.

  228. MD says:

    jason

    Mourdock is going to win by +5. I also think he will win the general unless IN allows write-ins. Then Lugar will make it a 3 way race and the Dem would probably prevail.

  229. jason says:

    220 – How do you know it wasn’t about you?

    Because I hadn’t said anything controversial on the thread….yet

    IS IT ME???????

  230. Senator Coons says:

    “He seems ok, but I would make him change his name before I allowed him in the Senate.”

    Hey, I…

    well, you can see where I’m going with this.

  231. MD says:

    233

    Sorry, I can’t disclose that. Our meetings are absolutely private. I have already said too much.

  232. Bitterlaw says:

    IS IT ME???????

    Comment by jason

    Did you storm the Island yet?

  233. jason says:

    If ssq becomes a Philly A-hole I will kill myself.

  234. DrJay says:

    is it lisab?

  235. janz says:

    MD and bitter

    Understood about ‘handles.’

  236. jason says:

    229. So no update today? It says updated at 1 PM….

  237. NYCmike says:

    #219 – Thank you janz!
    #221 – I am an equal opportunity employer.

  238. NYCmike says:

    Understood about ‘handles.’

    -Is that code?

  239. NYCmike says:

    #237 – SSQ to exact revenge on you from within the hallowed grounds of the Philly a-hole lair!

  240. MD says:

    Bitter – STFU!!!! I am already getting enough blame for your crap.

  241. Bitterlaw says:

    Sorry, I can’t disclose that. Our meetings are absolutely private. I have already said too much.

    You are paying for that cake, MD.

  242. NYCmike says:

    HOBO’s rock!
    They definitely have better music!

  243. DrJay says:

    “HOBO’s rock!”

    On the porch in their rocking chairs…

  244. bio mom says:

    gallup has not updated today yet, neither the Romney/Obama numbers nor the Obama approval/disapprovals.

  245. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – There really was not going to be an announcement. We were goingto have an intervention about your “business meetings.” You are tearing us apart. You think it’s easy watching you stumble around the Club House? GF attends the meetings by video conference so you won’t see that he cries after your outbursts. We’re here for you, man. Even an A-hole has a soft side.

  246. MD says:

    249

    I was wondering what the folding chairs were for. My instincts to bolt that meeting were spot on.

  247. DrJay says:

    A person charged with a hate crime over the Trayvon Martin incident:

    “MyFoxChicago reports Hayes told police he decided to attack his victim because he is angry over the death of Trayvon Martin. Hayes said he chose his victim because he is white.

    Hayes was charged with attempted robbery, aggravated battery and a hate crime, all felonies. His teenage comrade was referred to juvenile court.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/suspect-attacked-white-teen-because-am-angry-about-trayvon/

  248. MD says:

    Doc – wanna bet that Holder exerts pressure to remove the “hate crime” from the charges. His POV is that it is impossible for hate crimes to be committed against straight white people.

  249. Hillary's hair dresser says:

    DRUDGE:

    REPORT: Zimmerman ‘has black roots’…

    So What? So does Hillary C.

  250. Gray Goose says:

    Where is MD? I thought we were having a meeting about him?

  251. janz says:

    I am reposting the If I wanted America to fail ad. It has had over a million hits on utube, and has been posted on many blog sites. The content, though, is priceless in displaying the hyposcrisy of this administration.

    It also ties into MD’s comment about Holder probably removing the “hate crime” indictment from the charges on Hayes — the one where a black man beat up a white one. Yeah, that’s doesn’t involve ‘hate,’ just pent up frustration.

  252. Walt says:

    Anybody think Obammer will replace Biden at #2 spot?

  253. Walt says:

    I would replace Biden at the convention if I were O.

    I see no political benefit with the gaff-ster and only liability.

  254. Walt says:

    I would maybe appoint him to something or another and pick a #2 who would help in a key swing state.

  255. Brandon says:

    No update today from Gallup.

    Editorial note: Gallup will not publish new Gallup Daily tracking results on Thursday, April 26. The next update will be Friday, April 27.

  256. MD says:

    He won’t because it would imply weakness and convey to the public that he thinks he is in trouble. FDR could get away with that in the 30’s. Wouldn’t work today.

  257. Bitterlaw says:

    i agree with MD. It’s tough to argue everything is great and kick out the VP at the same time. I know I’ll get a few “But Biden could say it was due to his health . . . .” No. It will not happen. Obama-Biden is going all the way through to the election.

  258. AuthorLMendez, Liberterian For Romney says:

    Gallup hasn’t changed anything today, polling today has been boring

  259. MD says:

    Bitter

    It reminds me of the “Hillary will replace Obama” stuff we heard here 4 or 5 months ago.

  260. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – Those of us who are veterans of the HHR Wars have seen it all before. Stupid predictions which are only made to get noticed. End of the world gloom. Fights. Cream sodas (I will not let SSQ ruin that for me). HHR may not be like it was before the Religious Wars and Maxwell’s exit but I love this place.

  261. MD says:

    Bitter,

    The way Obama has used EO’s has made me take notice though. This guy has no problem bypassing the normal checks and balances.

    I want to see what happens after/if the mandate is overturned. Politically, I can’t believe he would be stupid enough to try and tweak it and then say “OK, we satisfied that. Good to go”. I don’t put that past him.

  262. MD says:

    Ex-prostitute threatens to sue U.S. embassy over injuries sustained in Brazilian strip club parking lot

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ex-prostitute-threatens-sue-u-embassy-over-injuries-150325890.html

  263. Scott says:

    Jason
    Sorry,buddy,but Gallup has not updated today.Romney was at 43% yesterday as a +1.
    Today’s daily tracking poll shows results through Tuesday the 24th and not Wednesday the 25th.

  264. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – I don’t trust Obama but I think that all Presidents do what they think they can get away with. For example:

    John Adams – Signed the Alien and Sedition Act

    Jefferson – Louisiana Purchase

    Lincoln – Provide your own example

    FDR – Court packing

    LBJ – Gulf of Tonkin Resolution

    Nixon – Executive Privilege re: Watergate

    Reagan – Iran-Contra

    I am not saying to let them run wild but Obama is not unique. he is just more bold and dangerous.

  265. GF says:

    Bitter is right, MD; I get pretty torn up over your explosions. I only wish you direct more of them at Bunu.

    If that cake isn’t refunded, you’ll have two A-Holes to establish the San Diego charter. Just a thought…

  266. Bitterlaw says:

    GF – MD doesn’t even realize that most of your stomach issues are caused by the stress over his outbursts. He . . . I’m sorry. . . I need a minute . . .

  267. Barrett says:

    Arguing over the details surrounding Trayvon’s death will not bring him back. It wont unify people or help the conservative cause either.

    Our best course of action as conservatives/republicans/libertarians/whatever, is to present the best reasoning for the preservation of second amendment rights to the people of this country, and work toward breaking down racial barriers.

    As idealistic as it sounds, it’s really the only way

  268. Bitterlaw says:

    MD was going on about how his daughter made a play in softball. he was so proud. I didn;t have the heart to tell him that he was at the wrong game and that wasn’t his daughter.

  269. Bitterlaw says:

    Barrett – unlike many of the HHR folks, I deal with peiople of all races every day in my job. It is really heartwwarming to realize that when it comes to getting money they don’t deserve and exagerating their injuries, all races suck.

  270. MD says:

    272 – Lincoln repealed Habeus Corpus.

    I think we are in agreement that Obama is dangerous.

  271. lisab says:

    “In theory, this applies to every job everywhere. Employers don’t do this because they want to retain employees. Your argument is invalid.”

    no, it is quite valid

    most employers could not price fix salaries

    if burger king decided to pay $3 per hour, the employees could work at taco bell

    if the public school decides to pay $3 per hour, that would be the salary for the entire state … teachers would have to change careers or leave the state

  272. MD says:

    273

    In the UK, our office fired a security firm because we were unhappy with the personnel. They were all contract workers.

    We hired another firm. Guess what? By law, we had to hire the SAME workers back.

    That is a true story.

  273. lisab says:

    “And you don’t have to move to teach in another school district. My county has 11 school districts.”

    nothing would prevent the state from fixing salaries for the entire state

  274. sickofdems says:

    As a UAW member for 31 years i can say from inside that there is NOTHING more corrupt than a union.

    The stories i could tell about pay-offs…vote rigging of local elections…feather-bedding…outright theft…the “hiring” of people that get on the payroll but are never actually seen at work…the list is endless.
    Unions exist to keep union boot-licking politicians in office. They are as phony and corrupt as anything you can imagine.

    Some of my best friends at work all those years are staunch union people that secretly vote Republican yet have to appear as Democrats to keep the perks they have received from the union. Its an incredible situation that you would never believe/understand unless you lived it like i did.

    Screw unions. They should ALL be under investigation. And dis-banded.

  275. MD says:

    You see Bitter?

    No chance at that happening, especially now.

  276. lisab says:

    ” they could also teach private school, college, neighboring county, or work in a different field…

    labor must follow supply and demand.”

    but private companies are not allowed to fix prices

    the government can and does

  277. sickofdems says:

    And oh-yea………..HOBO’s rule!!!

    I see the Philly A-holes are obviously worried about the growing clout of the HOBO’s so they are trying to stir up trouble and bring attention to themselves with this new mystery member.

    Its obviously…………………..lisab.

  278. lisab says:

    “Really? And then what would happen?

    1) You wouldn’t have enough teachers”

    actually they would just hire unqualified people

  279. MD says:

    There is no new member Sick. We are an exclusive club.

  280. Scott says:

    MD
    Please explain to me the 114 point move in The DOW Industrial Index today when the macro economic data was poor and there were some earning misses.

  281. GF says:

    actually they would just hire unqualified people

    To be honest, there is plenty of that going on, and it’s bee that way since I was in high school at least. Some great teachers, lots of real bozos.

  282. MD says:

    Econ 101

    If salaries fell too low, they would have no applicants. Econ 101.

    Ban all public unions. They are supposed to negotiate against the same people that they elect. A gross conflict of interest.

    It is going to be awesome to see Walker survive the recall. I think by a 6 point margin.

  283. Bitterlaw says:

    actually they would just hire unqualified people

    Comment by lisab

    Anybody else want to hit that hanging curveball?

  284. lisab says:

    no more than any other field

  285. MD says:

    Scott – 2 things

    There was some modestly postive housing news. Not a game changer but it feeds into the second reason:

    There is no alternative right now. The game has been rigged so that stocks are the only choice. Until the collective unit we call a market punishes US bonds for our fiscal insanity, that will continue.

    The bomb is set to explode in December. It all comes due then. Until that point, enjoy the ride.

  286. Bitterlaw says:

    True story:

    My mother-n-law was a teacher. I asked her if she spent time preparing lesson plans. Her answer was. “Not after the second year of teaching.” My aunt was also a teacher and said the same thing.

  287. lisab says:

    “If salaries fell too low, they would have no applicants. Econ 101.”

    not true. it sthe unon that makes the state hire teachers with teaching degrees

    unfettered they would hire drunks and ILLEGAL alens

  288. lisab says:

    ” I asked her if she spent time preparing lesson plans. Her answer was. “Not after the second year of teaching.” My aunt was also a teacher and said the same thing.”

    i hear the same thing about lawyers

    they just use standard contracts

  289. MD says:

    296 – All creditability just went down the drain with that one.

  290. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – If I totally “F” up a case, I can be fired on the spot. No grievance hearing. No probation. Please explain why teachers deserve tenure? Teachers always tell me that they have the most important job in the world – educating the next generation. If the job is that important, why can bad teachers slide? Do not lie and give me an example of some gym teacher fired for nailing a student. I want to know about the 25 year vet coasting to his pension.

  291. GF says:

    Straying from the current convo, anyone else thinking that the YouGov poll is a little fishy? Down only ten with Hispanics? That just does not sit right with me.

  292. MD says:

    300 – Yes. Just don’t see that.

  293. Bitterlaw says:

    Dodged a bullet.

  294. lisab says:

    “If I totally “F” up a case, I can be fired on the spot. No grievance hearing. No probation. Please explain why teachers deserve tenure?”

    because if you get fired or quit

    you can apply for a job in a firm in the same building

    a teacher who was fired would have no such option

    there is only one employer

  295. MD says:

    Anyway, it is going to be extra sweet to watch Walker survive the recall. All the outside influence and millions of $ wasted will have been for naught.

  296. lisab says:

    Bitterlaw,

    as an example …

    imagine you buy a house, siign the mortgage complete the sale etc.

    the next day your boss says, “since you are stuck here, we have decided to cut your salary by 50% and since you can only work for the government … you either accept or move to a different state … where you will face the same situation”

    this is not theoretical either, before the teacher unions it was common practice to fire teachers when they got married or pregnant or got old

  297. Bitterlaw says:

    So, lisab compares boilerplate language in a contract where 95% is standard (cost, delivery terms, penalties for non-performance, etc.) to the “most important job” in the world (educating children). Typical.

    Teachers are the only “profession” that unionizes and goes on strike. I never saw doctors, lawyers, bankers, CPAs or lawyers walk a picket line. The possible exception is nurses but they don’t constantly demand to be called “professionals.” they are too busy caring for patients.

  298. Walt says:

    Sick–

    I think our possibilities of adding more HOBO members is quite thin, due to the age thing.

    Just about everyone else here
    are young-uns.

    You are the youngest HOBO at 53 years of age.
    *****************************
    Tim in GA is pretty old, but he is a New Deal liberal.

    Say, what about MFG?
    He sure sounds old and grumpy sometimes.

    Gotta sign off now and go take my nap.

  299. MD says:

    305 – current labor laws prohibit that and have for a very long time. That is a tried and true union strategy that is completely false now.

    But hey, it is all you have.

  300. Brandon says:

    It’s illegal for teachers unions to strike here.

  301. lisab says:

    “I never saw doctors, lawyers, bankers, CPAs or lawyers walk a picket line. ”

    they make considerably more money

  302. EML says:

    303 simply not true. You can teach in private schools and universities. Yet another argument falls apart. Try again.

    I’ll give you a hint: no, your job is not any different from any other. There is no need for a teachers union.

  303. lisab says:

    “It’s illegal for teachers unions to strike here”

    it was for my union too

  304. lisab says:

    actually, not illegal, it was in our contract that we would not

  305. Scott says:

    #294-MD
    The housing news was awful this week and today’s data was a 4% increase that may or may not happened.
    Your reply,which is appreciated as always,confirms to me that the market is rising almost solely on momentum,wishfully hoping that the Fed will intervene with more QE and you have a bunch of major investors doing a circle jerk trying to lure into the market retail investors.

  306. lisab says:

    “You can teach in private schools and universities. ”

    no, universities require advanced degrees

    and

    private schools require no skill at all, and thus pay far less

    even a graduate from a religious school with a major in bible studies could teach in a private school

  307. MD says:

    The old days are over for the teachers even with the union. The math no longer works and taxes can only be raised so much.

    Say goodbye to the sweetheart health insurance.

    The pensions are a different issue because the politicians are in them as well. That time bomb is just about here.

  308. Bitterlaw says:

    there is only one employer

    Comment by lisab

    Really, lisab? I live in Radnor Township (1 employer) half a mile away is Lower Merion (1 employer). 5 miles the other way is Tredyffrin/Eastown (1 employer). Within Radnor – 1 Catholic high school and 1 catholic school (K-8), 1 private school (Agnes Irwin) and 1 military academy (7-12 and post-grad year – Valley Forge Military Academy), 5 colleges (Eastern Univ, Cabrini, Villanova, Bryn Mawr, Rosemont). Get the point?

  309. Emerica says:

    Unions a way to try to gain market power.

    Licensing if a form of government granted monopoly in a way tho. More of a way to impede competition from entry although it’s obviously more complicated than that.

  310. lisab says:

    if you all think that teachers have it so good

    go get a teaching certificate and teach

    i made $42,000 after 10 years

  311. lisab says:

    ” I live in Radnor Township (1 employer) half a mile away is Lower Merion (1 employer). 5 miles the other way is Tredyffrin/Eastown (1 employer).”

    all under the state board of education

    there is nothing that stops collusion

  312. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Theres nothing else to do with money, Scott

    A ten year treasury at 1.96%?

    A bank savings acct at 0.4%?

    What else are you going to do?

  313. MD says:

    314 – agree. However, you have no alternative except bonds and money markets. The game is completely rigged right now and it is Bernancke who is doing the rigging.

    My theory is that the rigging wouldn’t happen if business had confidence. If they did, we would be adding 300 to 400K in jobs per month, revenues would be increasing to the treasury and Ben wouldn’t have to do the insane things he is doing now. As long as we have an anti-business POTUS, expect the same policies from the fed to continue. We have been incredibly lucky in 2 respects:

    1. We are the world’s reserve currency
    2. Europe is just a little (meaning – not very much) more F’d up than us.

    It will blow up but could take a while longer.

  314. Bitterlaw says:

    they make considerably more money

    Comment by lisab —

    Pure bullsh*t. Teachers in my town make $110k after 20 years. In the town where I grew up, there are gym teachers making $120k. Find me a lawyer who works 180 days a year who works 8 to 3:30 and earns that.*

    *I hate this argument because Brandon is one of the good guys and I hate to wound him with collateral damage.

  315. Brandon says:

    Starting salaries are over 50,000 on average in NJ.

  316. Brandon says:

    I think it’s absolute crap that I make the same amount as a gym teacher. It’s obscene.

  317. sickofdems says:

    You may be right Walt.
    We may need to lower the age a bit…

    And NO to Tim. Just no way.

    Even if we get no more members….we still RULE.

    Don’t we?

  318. Walt says:

    MFG–

    Obammer says the solar incustry is a good investment. He invested billions of taxpayer dollars there.
    ***********************************
    Why I bet he socked a lot of his and Moochelle’s own personal money in those investments, too. Probably also in those nify Volt cars that have not had one sale in 2 months.

    Can’t miss.

  319. Bitterlaw says:

    Brandon – you make the same as a gym teacher because your union demands that you be slotted the same according to years rather than what you actually do. Ask lisab why that is in your best interest.

  320. BayernFan says:

    Lugar has just started running a real good TV ad featuring popular Gov Daniels’ endorsement:

    http://www.dicklugar.com/landingpages/on-the-job/

  321. Scott says:

    #321 and MD
    At this point I am all cash so I do not lose principal.
    I agree with your points,but you both confirm my point that this is a market based on a House of Cards and that good news is good and bad news is even better.
    When the market corrects,it will be butt ugly!

  322. GF says:

    Brandon, you teach math, right? You ought to earn half as much again or maybe even twice what the blockhead PE instructor hauls in.

    Same thing in the military, though. It’s all on paygrade, and even if your colleague in the Mess has a job with little to no technical skill while your own rating required two years plus of intensive electronics with the cutting edge technology, you both earn the same. He may even earn more if he has been in a few more years than you have. Retention bonuses used to make up for some of that, but with those gone, I earn the same as a cook (not a chef, mind you), secretary or deck hand.

  323. Bitterlaw says:

    Brandon – cover your ears. When I was a senior in college, I knew a few classmates who were going to be teachers. They bragged about their benefits and vacations and how they could retire at 53. I did not hear one word about “the children.” Are there great teachers? Absolutely. Are they all great? No way.

  324. GF says:

    BF, where do you fall in that race? I know that mnw and others are pushing hard to purge Lugar.

  325. Brandon says:

    Bitter, I see it every day. It’s no surprise to me. Once you get tenure, you have it MADE.

  326. sickofdems says:

    Wow GF….that really sux.

  327. jason says:

    Wow that is a good Lugar ad.

    I was so moved I called in and contributed $100 for mnw….

  328. MD says:

    The average teacher in my district makes 80K and they have a health ins plan that is flat out unreal. Then, the pension which has an incredibly generous formula. They also get a ton of time off.

    Contract time is coming though. You see should the PR offensive the union is putting on. They are using kids, going to blogs with mis-inforamtion. It is flat out obscene.

    The community has had enough though and more importantly math doesn’t lie.

  329. Brandon says:

    I want Lugar to win just so I can see mnw have a full on meltdown.

  330. Scarlett O'Hara says:

    The best teacher I ever had called us her “chirren.” What a sweet lady she was, a pity some awful men from up north came down here and tore our lives apart.

  331. Bitterlaw says:

    GF – where can I look up the basic pay range (I know there are a lot of variables). I am tired of Col. Brother-in-Law crying poor and then buy another house every time he moves to a new assignment and then renting it out when he goes to his new assignement. I think he owns 4 rental properties now. Believe me, I have the utmost respect for the military and you are underpaid for your sacrifice but Col. Brother-in-Law is not starving.

  332. lisab says:

    “Teachers in my town make $110k after 20 years.”

    really? then why aren’t you a teacher?

  333. NEA Spokesmun says:

    We would like to respond to all these unfair attacks.

    As soon as someone gets back from sabbatical we will.

  334. lisab says:

    “Starting salaries are over 50,000 on average in NJ.”

    costs are a little higher in NJ than in the cornfields

  335. MD says:

    I am not an expert on Indiana politics but in every situation that has been similar, the incumbent has gone down to defeat. I see the same happening here. I believe the dye is cast. It is only a matte of how much Lugar will lose by in the end. He caved on some very core issues. A big mistake.

  336. BayernFan says:

    i’m voting for mourdock. 6 terms is enough. nothing personal, but lugar and others have to learn that WE are the boss. Mourdock will win in November. Lugar may not, due to his lies about his residency AND the fact that his Senate office illegally paid for campaign trips to Indiana.

  337. jason says:

    I can’t live on $110 k a year. So until I get something that pays more I live here at HHR.

  338. MD says:

    Bay – I didn’t mean to infer that you were supporting Lugar.

  339. jason says:

    345. Oh please. Lugar is a lock for the GE. From what everyone is saying Mourdock will win too, but no way Lugar would lose the GE.

  340. MD says:

    I live on love.

  341. BayernFan says:

    Lugar made the same mistake Crist did in licking Obama’s arse early on.

    He also has ignored the GOP in Indiana, which has pissed off county GOP organizations all over the state.

    And if Lugar loses, Indiana law prohibits him from running in any manner (write in or other party) in November.

    Bayern > Chelsea

  342. lisab says:

    “I can’t live on $110 k a year. So until I get something that pays more I live here at HHR”

    then don’t complain

  343. MD says:

    350 – Well, you just answered the question I was going to type about write-ins. Thanks!

  344. BayernFan says:

    I disagree, Jason.

    Lugar has problems…

    the Dems are poised to exploit them big time should he get nominated.

    He is NOT a lock this time around. Believe me.

  345. Bitterlaw says:

    really? then why aren’t you a teacher?

    Comment by lisab

    I don’t want to be a teacher. I could never be that brazen in demanding respect and taxpayer money.

  346. MD says:

    It is hard enough to live on 250K+.

    JK

    Cream Sodas

  347. GF says:

    Bitter, here is the current pay chart so you can browbeat him at Thanksgiving;

    http://www.navycs.com/2012-military-pay-chart.html

    You can also Google “Navy Pay Chart 2012″ and the 4th link is a nice PDF you can download from DFAS (defense accounting and finance).

    It’s gotten a lot better over the years, however;

    http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

    My dad told me that when he went to boot camp in ’54/55, they told him not to drop the rifle b/c it was worth more than they were. The M-1 sold new for $80; a recruit made $78/mo.

  348. jason says:

    Breaking news:

    Michele Obama won’t run for President.

    At a bring your kids to work day event at the White House, Michelle Obama said that she isn’t interested in running for president. “Absolutely not.”

    There you have it.

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry that it was even brought up.

  349. lisab says:

    “I don’t want to be a teacher”

    then don’t complain

  350. jason says:

    should he get nominated.

    He is NOT a lock this time around. Believe me.”

    Sorry I don’t. That is absolute trash talk. There has never been ANY indication Donnelly would beat Lugar, and if he wins the nomination I guarantee you he will be 95% or above in Intrade.

    I hope he wins the nomination just so you can get rich betting against him and a miracle happens.

  351. GF says:

    Also, Bitter, be sure to ask him what his housing allowance is. That’s a perk on top of the basic pay, and it’s pretty generous in some areas (not most of them, to be sure). It’s also tax free, which leads to a certain tax advantage, if you will i.e. one might have to earn another 15%+ in the private sector to have the same take home pay. That really applies to more senior people, of course; the junior guys and even some of the mid-level supervisors cannot relly capitalize on that.

    If he ever deploys, he also gets extra pays (taxable) and allowances (non-taxable), and if in certain zones, his income is entirely tax free. I know I took home (or, rather, sent home to Mrs. GF) an extra $900 or so when I was dpeloyed last year.

  352. RickPerrysParakeet says:

    42k Wahkeena?

    Even here teachers with ten years make much more maybe 80 or 85

  353. GF says:

    357- Was that a Yahoo! journalist? They seem to have nothing better to do than write sh*tty articles that are either incorrect or so banal that even the term “pointless” is being kind.

  354. DW says:

    MD, per your suggestion, I had the alpha team go over the results of that Michigan poll we released earlier today that showed Romney 45, Obama 46. The key here is the CTV model. The team said that when they put back in the respondants who would not commit to being certain to vote, then the results were Romney 44, Obama 48 which mirrors the 3 week old poll done by EPIC which showed it Romney 43 / Obama 47.

  355. jason says:

    We will probably never know because Mourdock looks like a winner.

    But I also guarantee you he will not be the prohibitive favorite on Intrade that Lugar would be. Not in the 90’s anyway.

  356. SoHope says:

    Google free breast implants and botox for teachers…it will make you sick

  357. Bitterlaw says:

    That is the point, lisab. Teachers complain non-stop in my town. “We need the summers off because teaching is so exhausting.” We should be paid more than professional athletes because we are more important. We should not pay for our benefits because it’s unfair.”

    The last time I checked, my friend the ER doctor has a pretty stressful job and gets 30 days off a year. my friend the surgeon has surgery and office hours 5 days a week and visits patients in the hospital for follow-up on weekends. he is also on call three nights a week. The real world suck, chalk pusher.

  358. Bitterlaw says:

    GF – what grade is a colonel? E what?

  359. MD says:

    365 – where? Maybe I can help with their recovery period!

  360. GF says:

    $42K in the cornfields is not so bad. AVerage rural income in Illinois has remained steady at around $32-33K per annum since 2008. The state’s relatively high average of $50,800 (in 2009 dollars) is artifically inflated by uber incomes in Chi-Town and the collar counties. So, you weren’t doing too bad by local standards and costs of living.

  361. jason says:

    Colonel is O-6

  362. jason says:

    E is enlisted. O for Officer. W for Warrant Officer.

  363. NYCmike says:

    “if the public school decides to pay $3 per hour, that would be the salary for the entire state”
    “there is only one employer”

    -The Utopian Socialist complaining about Utopia?
    Good grief!

  364. GF says:

    Bitter, full-bird Col. (not Lt. Col) is an O-6, making a HECK of a lot more dough than any E rating (E being “enlisted”). To reach that paygrade, even in the support coprs like medicine and law, still takes a bit of time. He’s had to have served, what, at least 16-20 years?

    He’s probably pulling in $8500-9300/mo. before taxes. The real winnings comes with his housing allowance. Where is he stationed?

  365. NYCmike says:

    318.Emerica says:
    April 26, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    Unions a way to try to gain market power.

    Licensing if a form of government granted monopoly in a way tho. More of a way to impede competition from entry although it’s obviously more complicated than that.

    -I AGREE!

  366. MD says:

    Bitter,

    The range is very wide and always has been. I think it is something close to 5 to 10K per month. It varies on length of service.

  367. GF says:

    A Col. commssioned into that paygrade with less than 2 years of service starts at $5900. Very rare for that to happen, but it does on occasion if a professional doctor or lawyer with X number of years of experience is recruited.

  368. MD says:

    I don’t begrudge their salaries or perks. Not at all. Of course, I am biased.

  369. janz says:

    Unlike Hillary Clinton Michelle Obama has no wish to run for POTUS

    Whew!

    She has also said her fantasy is just to walk out of the WH, and ‘keep walkin.’ Throughout Obama’s Presidency, his wife has seemed somewhat dour in being FLOTUS. The only time she seems to shine is when dressed in expensive gowns, having parties at the WH, and going on vacations, away from the WH.

    So, why is Obama running for a second term?

  370. janz says:

    sorry, jason, I see you already posted that….

  371. jason says:

    His work is not done.

    We are not fully socialist yet.

  372. GF says:

    379- To be able to afford to get her out of the house!

  373. DW says:

    “She has also said her fantasy is just to walk out of the WH, and ‘keep walkin.’”

    Hopefully we can help make that fantasy become a reality this November.

  374. jason says:

    ” actually they would just hire unqualified people ”

    BS

    Nobody is less interested in qualified teacher than the union.

  375. GF says:

    Bitter, I ran a quick calculation that if he was serving in the Philly area (presumably stationed out of the Navy Yard), his housing allowance would be $2742. Add that full amount to his take-home pay, plus any retainers he may get as a JAG.

  376. DW says:

    what a blah day for polls. Paladin/CFP released half as many as all the other pollsters combined.

  377. Brandon says:

    Dave should commission HHR sponsored polls.

  378. GF says:

    Bitter, one more item to make you a that much more…well, like yourself;

    Section 321 Judge Advocate Continuation Pay (JACP). Financial incentive for military Judge Advocates to continue on active duty upon completion of their ADSO. Up to $60K total payable to eligible judge advocates over a career. Discretionary pay — currently, Army, Navy and Air Force pay JACP; Marine Corps pays a Law School Education Debt Subsidy (LSEDS) under the JACP statutory authority.

  379. GF says:

    I believe Ras will conduct a poll for as little as $600 in a limited survey sector. Probably just top lines or limited cross-tabs, but it could be fun.

    I’d chip in at least $50, maybe $100 for a good race. MD could kick in a ton, being the 1% and all. Bitter could conduct pro-bono work if we get caught misuing the poll or otherwise breaking some legal restriction.

  380. Brandon says:

    I think this is RAS’ company, Pulse Opinion Research. The price is $1,500 for a 500 voter “Basic” survey. Seems a bit pricey.

    https://www.pulseopinionresearch.com/Surveys

  381. DrJay says:

    #387 I’ll contribute a few bucks.

  382. DrJay says:

    #390 do they have a discount for regular customers?

  383. janz says:

    Boy, this electoral college projection, for Obama versus Romney, is not very encouraging.

  384. Brandon says:

    It doesn’t say so on the site, but I bet they will be willing to work something out.

    I think the cost was originally $600 when the idea was first floated, but I guess they figured it would end up costing them more than that.

  385. DrJay says:

    Cook has moved PA-12 to tossup.

  386. lisab says:

    “Even here teachers with ten years make much more maybe 80 or 85″

    sure they do, that is why you are a teacher … oh wait …

    the median salary of elementary school teachers nationwide is about $41,000

    for high school it is two or three thousand higher

  387. NYCmike says:

    My wife’s cousin home-schools her 6 kids, and still pays her property taxes.
    She doesn’t even have an education degree.

    Those kids will all be productive citizens one day!

  388. NYCmike says:

    lisab,
    i loved most of my teachers. They worked hard 8-9 months a year.

  389. lisab says:

    “That is the point, lisab. Teachers complain non-stop in my town. “We need the summers off because teaching is so exhausting.” We should be paid more than professional athletes because we are more important. We should not pay for our benefits because it’s unfair.”

    it is funny that you are all about supply and demand

    but at the current pay scale, benefits and working conditions you are not willing to become a teacher

    yet …

    you think that current teachers should have their pay and benefits cut … because it is somehow “unfair” to the average ambulance chaser

    the price is what it is, you can become a teacher at that price or not. there is no barrier to entry except for a teaching certificate

  390. NYCmike says:

    CD

  391. NYCmike says:

    REMINDS ME OF MUSIC.

  392. lisab says:

    “So, you weren’t doing too bad by local standards and costs of living.” GF

    are we required to do bad by local standards? i started at $23,000 or so.

    that was the price.

    my union, the aft not the silly nea, has a standard goal of an average teacher making between 1/5th and 1/3rd of the local median house price, so that the teacher can afford to live in the town he or she lives teaches.

    the median house price in my town was roughly $145,000

    so yes, by my union’s standards i was doing ok.

  393. MD says:

    I would kick in some bucks. It would have to be called a HHR commissioned poll though.

  394. Brandon says:

    I would imagine it would bring more traffic to the site. More traffic = more $$$ = more polls.

  395. NYCmike says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMy_w5HsfdI

    My son, 3rd grade, will play this with 2 friends in a talent show at the end of school. They had their first jam session yesterday, my wife said they sounded pretty good. He will be playing the lead….violin!

  396. NYCmike says:

    Utopian Socialist – ppppffffftttt!!!!!

  397. Emerica says:

    Mfg make sure to “vote for slate #7″ in Louisiana.

  398. MD says:

    I doubt that I am part of the 1%. If I am I don’t feel like it. Still clipping coupons. Also, just received a notice that my current home and auto ins provider entered into a special program with my firm. Looks like a $320 savings for me per year. That is a good day!

  399. lisab says:

    “-The Utopian Socialist complaining about Utopia?
    Good grief!”

    utopian socialists are not marxists, in fact marxists hate us

    we would actually prefer salaries tied more closely to how the schools are doing, which includes real estate prices in the local town

    the marxists prefer a state run school system where school salaries are NOT tied to property taxes but rather to the state budget.

    my side is losing that battle.

    but in our view teacher salaries should go up or down with the town.

    (we are also in favor of teacher testing and state-wide or national student exams)

  400. Diogenes says:

    I think we should pay more for good teachers and fire all the bad ones. That means paying science majors more and english majors less.

    Unfortunately teaching is basically the recourse of mainly English majros.

  401. lisab says:

    “That means paying science majors more and english majors less.”

    why do you assume english majors are bad teachers?

    in any case, a teacher is required to either major or minor in the field they teach, depending on what grade they teach.

    originally i was going to teach middle school so i was a math major

    then i switched to elementary school so my major changed to education and my minor would have been math but i switched to a dual major of british literature/education

  402. MD says:

    We are woefully short on math and science skills in the U.S. That is why we should pay them more and English teachers less.

  403. EML says:

    Its not that english teachers are BAD teachers, its supply and demand. It is far easier to be a good english teacher than it is to be a goos science teacher. Kindergarten teachers shouldnt be making the same as HS calculus teachers.

  404. EML says:

    Any person with a HS diploma can be a kindergarten teacher. HS calculus teachers need very specialized training. But in either case, you shouldnt have to go to college for 6 years. Another scam perpetuated by the union.

  405. SoHope says:

    Did I miss the latest Philly A-hole induction?

    I could wait to find out in Team Evangelicals next Security Counsel Meeting, but I would prefer a little heads up so I can leverage political favors in exchange for withholding the damnation of his/her eternal soul.

  406. DrJay says:

    When I took education courses, every class period began and ended with people complaining about how they needed a 1000 on the GRE. That is not hyperbole.

  407. MD says:

    That was cancelled Hope. All speculation is pointless. We are in lock down mode.

  408. MD says:

    Hope – since I am a non-believer, I would appreciate it if you would put a good word in for me. You know, in case I am wrong.

  409. DrJay says:

    Being inducted into the a-holes does not sound very appealing…

  410. SoHope says:

    MD, you are in our good graces. Team Evangelical and the Philly A-holes are different on some issues but similar in many others.

    Any city that boos and pelts “Satan Claus” with snowball is OK in my book.

  411. SoHope says:

    You’ve just gotta love the Balkanization of the HHR.

  412. EML says:

    Record of QBs selected in the first round by the Redskins: 34-55. Good luck RG3

  413. MD says:

    Don’t believe Bitter Doc. He is a lawyer. Always sees the downside.

  414. Emerica says:

    “I think we should pay more for good teachers and fire all the bad ones. That means paying science majors more and english majors less.”

    I actually think math and English are the two most important subjects along with some foreign language possibly. This is especially true since all of the standardized tests focus on….math and english.

    Science is fine, but unless it’s for AP credits it’s not really the basics or that useful.

  415. EML says:

    416 – i have a good buddy whose wife was getting her masters in education. According to him, all her classes consisted of bringing in cookies and cake and gossiping about who was cheating on who.

  416. GF says:

    421- SoHo, reminds me of one of the funniest Onion pieces in memory;

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/northern-irish-serbs-hutus-granted-homeland-in-wes,305/

  417. Emerica says:

    English and math should be the backbone of any teaching curricula.

    Most of the English teachers are really bad at it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not important.

  418. DrJay says:

    I had an excellent English teacher in high school.

  419. DrJay says:

    …of course she left the next year to pursue a higher degree. I also had an excellent Mathematics teacher, but he left to sell insurance. The poor math teacher that I had stayed there.

  420. SoHope says:

    “Ethniklashistan–a name created by a team of linguists who combined 17 different languages’ words for “sanctuary””

    lol

  421. DrJay says:

    What is the difference between a cat and a comma?

  422. SoHope says:

    I was ahorrible math teacher, OK English teacher, awesome history/social studies, killer science/chemistry teacher.

  423. SoHope says:

    but I hated my students…well not really. I was only about 5 years older than many of my students that knew me when I was a teen. It was a bumpy first year.

  424. Cory says:

    #390

    Those prices are very competitive. Not pricey at all.

  425. GF says:

    SoHo, I particularly liked the 40,000 Chi-Com troops to supervise the 2000 Tibetan monks. Seems fitting.

  426. SoHope says:

    That was a very funny article, GF

  427. SusyQue says:

    #405…NYCmike…priceless…! It’s so much fun to
    watch our young children perform in any performance at school.

  428. MD says:

    But it was a great idea to talk about banning pre-natal testing. Yea, what a winning idea.

  429. DrJay says:

    “What is the difference between a cat and a comma?”

    A: One has claws at the end of its paws and one puts a pause at the end of a clause.

  430. MD says:

    rim shot

  431. Emerica says:

    I had 23 semesters of English that was about nothing at all in particular and 1 semester where the teacher actually taught something in high school.

    The one semester that was good was taught by a recent Dartmouth grad who was very young. She made everyone diagram Shakespeare sentences from a diagramming book that was written in the early 1900’s and that was so old it was falling apart, but it was a killer book in that the sentence structure became exceedingly complex especially for high school kids. We would, at times, hand in 100 page homework assignments. Nearly everyone who took her course scored near perfects on standardized English tests.

    Ever since I was in her class, I’ve wondered what in the world these other English teachers were doing, and I don’t think she had a teaching certificate or even a background in education.

  432. SoHope says:

    SSQ, don’t look up #442 on Urban Dictionary…

  433. Emerica says:

    Actually I recall taking “AP English” class the year before, and it was pretty much garbage time as well.

    Yet her class wasn’t AP, and it was a million times better.

  434. lisab says:

    “We are woefully short on math and science skills in the U.S. That is why we should pay them more and English teachers less.”

    you think we have enough people who speak english fluently? have you gone to walmart lately?

  435. lisab says:

    “Kindergarten teachers shouldnt be making the same as HS calculus teachers.”

    they don’t

  436. SoHope says:

    24 semesters of English? What Ron Paul brainwashing center did you attend?

  437. Emerica says:

    12 grades so 24 semester….

  438. lisab says:

    “According to him, all her classes consisted of bringing in cookies and cake and gossiping about who was cheating on who.”

    well since he was not the one taking the courses, i guess he is not a good witness now is he

    my courses consisted of empirical statistical methods using sas

  439. NYCchristopher says:

    #442 – ooh that tickles!

  440. lisab says:

    “I had an excellent English teacher in high school. of course she left the next year to pursue a higher degree. I also had an excellent Mathematics teacher, but he left to sell insurance” dr jay

    i guess your school system did not pay enough to keep them under the working conditions that existed

    they should have paid more

  441. lisab says:

    “I was ahorrible math teacher” sohope

    reall?!!!!

    but … but … you graduated from a bible college with a degree in snake dancing

    color me surprised

  442. SoHope says:

    or maybe he didn’t like teaching other peoples brats

  443. NYCchristopher says:

    #448 – don’t snap at him, there were 3-4 posts that were interesting to read instead of hourly updates on Paulian escapades.

  444. SusyQue says:

    This says a lot about a moslem woman’s role in sex with her husband.

    Daily Mail

    Islamists seek to legalize sex with the dearly departed Egyptian husbands will soon be legally allowed to have sex with their dead wives — for up to six hours after their death. The controversial new law is part of a raft of measures being introduced by the Islamist-dominated parliament.

  445. NYCmike says:

    #455 – should have been said by me, not that imposter!

  446. SoHope says:

    no…I said I basically had a masters in snake handling

  447. DrJay says:

    #452 Actually, they just got a little weary of dealing with some of the headaches… more money might have kept one of them there, but not the other.

  448. NYCmike says:

    #438 – thanks SusyQue

  449. SoHope says:

    “don’t snap at him, there were 3-4 posts that were interesting to read instead of hourly updates on Paulian escapades.”

    old habits die hard

  450. NYCmike says:

    Mark Levin was down on Romney again tonight. I have had to turn him off a lot lately.

  451. lisab says:

    ” Actually, they just got a little weary of dealing with some of the headaches”

    yeah, most teachers never have to deal
    with headaches

    i know all the parents, administrators and principals i dealt with were just peachy… and all my children angels all the time

  452. Dead Arab Wives says:

    they just got a little weary of dealing with some of the headaches

    ****************************************

    Hah! We told our husbands for decades that we had headaches, and what good did it do us?

  453. DrJay says:

    “i know all the parents, administrators and principals i dealt with were just peachy… and all my children angels all the time”

    tell me about it

  454. Emerica says:

    If anyone ever tells you they are going to teach a English test based on Strunk & White’s The Elements of Style, then you now it’s garbage time.

    Interesting book? Perhaps worth a read, but that’s not how English should be taught.

  455. MD says:

    Bitter

    The teacher’s union in TE is in complete desperation. They are flooding a local blog with “concerns” and the “outrage”. All the concerned parent posters are new. It is such an over the top, blatant union ploy that it is laughable.

  456. MD says:

    462 – I don’t even think about listening to him anymore.

  457. DrJay says:

    I did some spying on the philly a-hole meeting today trying to hear about the new member here are my paparazzi pics:

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnfngzk8YE1qatrjs.png

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnfqfrfEge1qdvuje.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpxof6OjQO1qcf9wr.jpg

  458. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – I make less than the most senior teachers in my town. I could make more if I wanted to leave my house at 6:00 a.m. and return at 10:00 p.m. and work 6 days a week. My wife could text me the scores of my daughter’s games and I could I have a heart attack before I’m 45. I chose a different path. Maybe I should go demand that my boss double my summary and quadruple my vacation days.

  459. MD says:

    Here is a fun exercise! Please read the following from Marxist Philly Inq columnist John Baer and re-write it pretending that Kathleen Kane had an R next to her name and not a D:

    “But Kane has a “3,000 problem.”

    She got too cute pressing her experience by saying in ads and speeches that she “prosecuted” 3,000 cases. Under media questioning, she conceded most did not go to trial, that she probably has tried two dozen cases.

    Since Murphy never tried a case in Pennsylvania (he was a military lawyer), she could have maintained an apparent advantage without specificity subject to scrutiny. She’ll need to clean that up for the fall.

    Other factors were more important, and they put Murphy in the wrong race at the wrong time”.

  460. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – Radnor went through it. The teachers used to attend the Board meetings whereing their Radnor Education Shirts and spoke at the public comments section for hours. At one meeting, after an hour and a half of them talking about being disrespected and insulted with the 3% pay raise, it was my turn. I told my story of being laid off, being unemployed for 6 months, and finding a job with worse hours and lower pay. I closed y saying that assuming that everybody in town was overflowing with money was wrong and that they were lucky to have what they had with no fear of losing their jobs. The stunned look on their faces was priceless. They had never been spoken to like that before and I don’t think they ever thought about the people who pay their saries.

  461. DrJay says:

    Browns have reportedly traded up to number 3 in order to get trent richardson.

  462. NYCmike says:

    0 – 0 after the first period. Devils start in 1/2 an hour. Time to finally get out of work.
    Keep up the good work.
    HOBO’s rule from their rocking chairs!

    Check ya later! (which movie?)
    I love those redheads! (same movie)

  463. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – She did “prosecute” 3000 cases. Prosecuting a case can be a trial or a plea deal. Very few cases go to trial. Murphy was a political hack who just needed an office to pad the resume until he can run for Governor.

  464. GF says:

    471- MD, let me take a stab at it (being na honorary Philly A-Hole and all):

    “But [Republican] has a “3,000 problem.”

    He (obviously a white male) got far too cute pressing his experience by saying in ads and speeches that he “prosecuted” 3,000 cases. Upon being questioned by intrepid reporters, he conceded that practically all of them never made it to trial, and that he has actually tried a paltry two dozen cases, at best.

    Since [other white male Republican in primary] never tried a case in Pennsylvania (he took combat credit when in all actuality he was only a military lawyer who knows as much about real combat as he does about fornicating), he didn’t have to lie his way into an apparent advantage and thus take the voters for idiots. He’ll need to clean that up for the fall, but frankly, Pennsylvanians are too smart to even consider putting this less than fiduciary Republican anywhere near the Attorney General’s office.

    Other factors could have been more important, but the fact is that [other white Republican] was in the wrong race at the wrong time against an out and out liar. Well, now that out and out liar is in the wrong race at the wrong time against [totally honest, hard working, ought-to-be-elected-in-a-landslide-racial minority-lesbian-Jewish…but not too Jewish that she can’t support Palestine over Israel… Democrat].”

  465. MD says:

    Bitter – that is my point. Pretend Kane was an R and how Baer would have written the story.

  466. Emerica says:

    House is voting on CISPA right now, which is the new version of SOPA and PIPA.

    Another bad bill.

    ACLU allows free faxes to be send.

  467. Emerica says:

    John Birch Society has a free fax system to oppose CISPA as well.

  468. DrJay says:

    Luck, Griffin go 1-2 as expected.

  469. MD says:

    Good work GF. I actually think Baer would have called for Kane to be disbarred.

  470. Barrett says:

    #458 – Be careful what you claim to have a master’s in.

    LisaBigot will decry your education as unimportant and a waste.

    All this while I’m successfully landing a job as a professor

  471. MD says:

    Congrats Barrett! Think I will have a beer in celebration.

  472. Bitterlaw says:

    482 – Was that Maxwell? Probably not. That woman was hot. What a d-bag move to not give up the ball.

    It is so funny how children getexcited over a ball. At my last softball game last year, I made sure to say something about each player and game them a “game ball” from the season. (What was I going to do them?) These girls acted like I was giving out diamonds. They were thrilled.

  473. lisab says:

    “I make less than the most senior teachers in my town. ”

    but apparently they don’t make enough to tempt you to become one

  474. Bitterlaw says:

    Sorry you couldn’t hack it in the difficult field of British Literature, Barrett. lisab’s Senior Honors Thesis was titled:

    “Punch and Booty: The importance of the proper punch bowl in acquiring a proper husband in Jane Austen novels.”

  475. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – I do not want to be a teacher. I do not want to support the Democratic Party. I never joined any bar organization in PA or New Jersey because they are Democrat front groups. If I only cared about money and being lazy, I would get a teacher’s certification, spend three years actually working as a history teacher, and then coast when I had tenure.

  476. Bitterlaw says:

    Other jobs I do not want:

    Accountant.
    Whatever the hell MD does because I don’t want to travel for work.
    Latex salesman for Vandelay Industries.

    On the other hand, I can sign “esquire” after my name and I can sign court documents without getting a notary.

  477. MD says:

    Being an assassin has it’s perks.

  478. MD says:

    Dave – please delete 491. I was thinking out loud. Didn’t mean to actually type it.

  479. Walt says:

    Wow. I am a retired teacher after 33 years in the classroom.

    After reading the comments on the thread I now have lots of bruises all over my body.

    Graduated in Jan., 1969 with dual major in business and social studies. Took job in Harrisburg in retain management making $6200 per year.

    Got offer to teach back in WV for $6500 and took it. Job had no health care benefits. (about 4 or 5 yrs. later state offered health insurance instead of a raise. Every year, every class there were always problem kids, etc. but I loved what I did. Taught grades 7-12 social studies and some business. Worked 60+ hours/wk. Worked other jobs every summer.

    Took grad classes, got MA and more than 45 hours beyond that. All out of pocket, no bene from state or county to help pay cost. Taught 33 years. Last bunch of years teaching AP Psych and Honors 11 American History. Retired in early 2003.

    Highest annual salary: $45,000 (with 33 yrs and MA +45.

    Retirement check:
    $27,900/yr gross
    $21,600 net ($1803/mo)

  480. Bitterlaw says:

    That would explain why Cheksux doesn’t post any more.

  481. GF says:

    Punch and Booty; that made me laugh out loud, Bitter. If only b/c I was stuck in those very dull English Lit classes with actual Englishmen who made it all the worse.

    Good night all; time to go home.

  482. MD says:

    I really enjoy Dallas Bitter. A good place for my type. You know, very historical.

  483. MD says:

    Goodell hugging the draftees for over 20 seconds is creepy.

  484. Barrett says:

    #484 – Thanks! It’s not full time, but its an evening job as a supplement to my full time position elsewhere.

    I don’t know all the rules, but I’ve been told that as a professor at a private institution, I’m not in a union. VERY proud not to be unionized!

  485. DrJay says:

    Dolphins took Ryan Tannehill at #8.

  486. MD says:

    FACT CHECK: Romney on his dad growing up poor

    they will investigate this 1000x more than they ever investigated Obama’s ties to Ayers.

  487. DrJay says:

    He was a just guy from the neighborhood.

  488. DrJay says:

    lol… changed my meaning a bit there

    He was just a guy from the neighborhood.

  489. Walt says:

    If it was 1969 I would do it all again and teach.

    But I have witnessed serious changes for the worst in the public schools in my 33 years in the classroom.

    In the last 12-15 years I taught, no parental support, severity of problems faced by teachers, less and less support for teachers, an avalanche of unnecessary paperwork, always threats of lawsuits from the parents of the little snowflakes, dummying down of the course work, students not being held responsible for attendance or class work or homework, huge increase in severe needs of many students, special ed mainstreaming, having to figure out how to teach deaf students, blind students,(no aides come with them into the classroom), students being put in your class that know about 5 words of English, behavioral disorder kids thrown into regular classrooms, breaking up and getting in the middle of high school fistfights in the hall, having homeless kids who live in a car, having to give tests orally to migrant 7th grade students who had never been taught to read, etc. And I am held responsible for the educational success of every student. It was a daunting challenge everyday.

    If I was 21 again and had to the offer to go teach I would not do it in today’s world.
    **************************************
    I have seen my share of bad teachers, but most were average to good and excellent. People who cared about the kids more than their own bank account.

    It is sad that so many of you seem to live in school districts where none of the teachers are any good and care only for themselves.

    Either that, or maybe you don’t have a good take on what good teachers are faced with and trying to do every day.

  490. Emerica says:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75670.html

    CISPA passes house. The Chinese model of internet.

  491. Emerica says:

    Roll Call votes.

    See if your “representative” voted for it.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll192.xml

  492. Emerica says:

    If there had been an big effort to stop it like there was for SOPA, it would have been defeated, but the people can’t keep up with how dumb they are or they just fatigued of fighting with them.

  493. DrJay says:

    “See if your “representative” voted for it.”

    or didn’t vote…

    like Ron Paul

  494. Emerica says:

    At least Paul refused secret service protection unlike Newt who is still wasting money on that even though he said last week he was going to drop out soon.

  495. Bitterlaw says:

    Fletcher Cox! I know nothing about him. MD.

  496. DrJay says:

    Eagles First Round Pick

    12(12) Eagles (From Seahawks) Cox, Fletcher DT 6’4″ 298 Mississippi St.

  497. DrJay says:

    Draft analysis from nfl.com

    Strengths:
    Cox is an impressive athlete who is capable of making big plays from the interior of the defensive line. He is extremely fast off the ball and can get into the backfield as quickly as any tackle prospect in the country. He has a high motor and pursues down the line of scrimmage with aggression. He can snap his hips into the offensive line to get a blowback effect; he can also dip and rip his hips around would-be tacklers to get into the backfield. Cox keeps blockers off of him with very active hands. He is a serious athlete who would immediately bolster the front of any defense and would work well in a rotation.

    Weaknesses:
    Cox allows himself to get completely washed away when faced with a double team, a symptom of his rawness. He tries to rely too much on his athleticism when working against the run; he doesn’t think to set an anchor and remain a presence and gap-filler within the scheme he plays in. Cox could be a high-risk, high-reward player as a rookie.

  498. Bitterlaw says:

    Yeah- Ron Paul is such a target of terrorists. They really want to take out their best friend in Congress.

  499. DrJay says:

    Paul is just wasting everyone’s time and money on another failed presidential run.

  500. MD says:

    Bitter – yet another undersized DT. Guess we don’t need to upgrade at LB or safety.

  501. Bitterlaw says:

    They signed a linebacker, MD. I don’t know if a great safety was available.

  502. MD says:

    We needed another undersized DT. By the way, they traded UP to get him?

  503. Bitterlaw says:

    Maybe he will be good. I don’t know.

  504. MD says:

    He might be good. It will be after Reid is gone.

  505. MD says:

    They traded Samuels for a 7th round pick!!!

  506. MD says:

    Reid: Cox carries weight well

    An all-time softball. Too easy. I will pass.

  507. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – admit it. If the Eagles traded up and grabbed Andrew Luck you would bitch about it.

  508. MD says:

    Bitter – OK. The 6 Eagles Super Bowls won during this era will shut me up.

  509. Walt says:

    GOVERNING.COM

    Arizona
    Supreme Court May Uphold Part of Arizona Immigration Law
    Supreme Court justices strongly suggested they would uphold a provision in Arizona’s immigration law that tells police to check whether people they stop for some other reason are in this country legally. But several justices also suggested they were troubled by other parts of the law.
    Los Angeles Times | Read More

  510. Walt says:

    GOVERNING.COM

    Principal at Center of Atlanta Public Schools Cheating Scandal Resigns

    Will we get an on the scene update from Tim?

  511. Bitterlaw says:

    I forgot you are an expert on everything. MD. Teach me your secret. Oh. Wait. Just be a negative a-hole. The same Eagles who drafted bad players also drafted Westbrook, MacCoy, Jackson, Maclin but M-Kiper-D has a book in his brain on Fletcher Cox.

  512. MD says:

    Didn’t hear what Kiper said and don’t care.

  513. Bitterlaw says:

    Maybe you can type NO DRAFT!! 200 times.

  514. lisab says:

    “Either that, or maybe you don’t have a good take on what good teachers are faced with and trying to do every day.”

    i don’t know walt

    it seems they are on to our all day lsd and whiskey benders …

    oh wait … that is just the principals

  515. MD says:

    Maybe you could type:

    “Mediocrity makes me happy” 200 times.

  516. hellbelly says:

    Jon Gruden on virtually every pick: “i think that’s a good pick for -insert NFL team here -“

  517. sickofdems says:

    Geez Walt….i had no idea you were also a teacher.

    Had i known i would have doubled your dues.

  518. Bitterlaw says:

    When is Add getting here? MD and I bore each other.

  519. Walt says:

    UH OH!!!!

    We got trouble in River City…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LONUecnsMb8&feature=player_embedded

    ***************
    caution: some swear words.

  520. MD says:

    HB – yea. He also loves every qb that attends his camp.

    Bitter – yea, getting bored. Get add on so we can all take turns kicking his ass.

  521. Bitterlaw says:

    Gruden does seem to love every player.

  522. hellbelly says:

    Jon Gruden on Melvin Ingram: “I really like this pick”…..no sh*t sherlock….the commissioner could say “the Panthers pick Wally Cox” and you would say “he might be a dead little shrimp, but I really like that pick”

  523. lisab says:

    ““Mediocrity makes me happy” 200 times.”

    that is what lawyers do all day

  524. Bitterlaw says:

    Add is approaching Maxwell-levels of D-Bag.

  525. sickofdems says:

    Seriously Walt…i did work with a couple of ex-teachers at Ford.

    One in particular told me she quit teaching and came to the factory after a parent accosted her in the school parking lot after hours and stuck a grill fork up under her chin, fondled her ta-ta’s and told her that his son had better pass the test she had scheduled so he could remain eligible for football. She got tears in her eyes as she told me this so i dont really doubt this happened.

    I have no love for unions of any sort…but teachers are sometimes under enormous pressure that most people have no idea even exists.

    You simply could not pay me enough to be a teacher.

  526. Walt says:

    The picture alone is worth the opening of this link.

    The rest of the article…not so much except for ONE poster here at HHR who will get REAL excited.
    **************************************
    http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/795.cfm?awt_l=5yA3g&awt_m=3hK5d9wfQpAZ85B

  527. MD says:

    The Browns with their second pick select – MD!

    Gruden – “Good pick. A little old and a little light but will add spark. Will get in the faces of his teammates. A winner, a high effort guy”.

  528. DrJay says:

    “Will get in the faces of his teammates.”

    As soon as they are sitting down.

    Cream soda!

  529. DrJay says:

    That cream soda thing is like Rocky putting a smiley face after his posts.

  530. lisab says:

    walt,

    you might appreciate this.

    we had a young principal, fresh out of grad school … reminded me a lot of obama actually…

    he got it in his head we should put on school plays for the parents … it is a lot of work and means a LOT of headaches …i had first graders.

    so we are in this room with about 30 teachers and he wants suggestions by class or what plays they could do … i remained silent … i just said nothing.

    so he asked me straight out and i said i did not like the idea for the reasons mentioned. who wants to deal with a bunch of six year olds learning lines and getting costumes etc.

    oh what a big f-ing deal. for the next 30 minutes he goes on and on about everyones’ great ideas, “except for lisa who does not think it is a good idea!!!”

    so he proceeds to embarrass me repeatedly and finally he puts me on the spot again. “come on lisa, what play should we do … just give me one idea”

    so being a little angry by this point, i said, “how about the vagina monologues?”

    everyone laughed … he walked out

    that was the end of the meeting :)

    which is also an example of why we need tenure. i would have been fired that day without it.

  531. MD says:

    Lisa – are you an English teacher?

  532. lisab says:

    “You simply could not pay me enough to be a teacher.”

    yet you support cutting their pay and benefits?

  533. hellbelly says:

    The Patriots trade UP?????

    “with the 21st pick in the first round, the Patriots select the late Senator, Fat Teddy Kennedy”

    Gruden: “I LOVE this pick….what Kennedy lacks in side-to-side mobility, he makes up in bulk and is tough at the point of attack…..this is the kind of pick that makes Belichick the coach everyone else looks up to.”

  534. sickofdems says:

    #543…..”and a little light”????

    Who the hell do you think you are kidding?

  535. sickofdems says:

    When did i say that lisab???

  536. MD says:

    548

    Yes, when it is out of line. The teacher’s in my district are about to get a rude awakening on their cadillac plan.

  537. sickofdems says:

    Pick your battles carefully lisab…..

  538. MD says:

    Per NFL standards sick. 180 lbs.

    Gruden loves my spirit though. Haven’t heard him say one critical thing yet.

  539. lisab says:

    “Lisa – are you an English teacher?”

    i switched from a Math Teacher major in the College of LAS, with an education and Brit Lit minor

    to

    an Education major in the college of education with a dual major in Brit Lit in the college of LAS

    because when i did my practical in middle school, i cried every day for a week and the principal suggested to my advisor that i might be better suited for elementary education

    soooooooo … no i am not an english teacher except to the extent that i teach some english to elementary children

  540. MD says:

    Actually, I am NOT for cutting the pay. That is not the problem. The HC benefits are costing us $1800 per month per teacher. That cannot continue. Also, the pensions need to be revamped. However, the politicians are also in those plans so I won’t hold my breath. Sadly, the only that saves us from complete disaster is if a lot of retired teachers die early.

    The math doesn’t work anymore.

  541. MD says:

    555

    Do you cover capitalization in your class?

  542. lisab says:

    “soooooooo … no i am not an english teacher except to the extent that i teach some english to elementary children”

    well, i did until i quit my job

    now i am a home maker and bake bread all day

  543. DrJay says:

    The faculty here was successful in striking down the forced 3% contributions that had been enacted.

  544. MD says:

    Gruden – “big upside”

  545. lisab says:

    “Do you cover capitalization in your class?”

    we did. i didn’t bring my work home with me however

  546. Bitterlaw says:

    So, lisab has to have a guaranteed job so her feelings won’t be hurt and she can tell jokes. You want to hear how I was laid off when 10% of my insurance company was axed. ” We need to let 10% go. You are the youngest white male and we will get sued if we let any other lawyer go. I will deny I said this but I got you 3 months salary and 1 year of health coverage.”

  547. lisab says:

    ” The HC benefits are costing us $1800 per month per teacher.”

    mine was $450 a month

  548. Walt says:

    Sick–

    That is some story you shared.

    In my 3rd or 4th year teaching, I was the teacher in charge of “Fun Night.” It was a class fund raising traditional event with lots of games and small prizes held on a Fri. night at the school and it was not just for students but open to the public at large.

    They paid money for tokens to play the games to try to win the prizes. I was at the table with the money. A 28 year old country boy comes in with a rifle and points it at me and says “give me the money.” He had been drinking. I told him sure, just let me take it over to the office so I can count it for you. His two buddies then rushed up and dragged him out saying “he’s just kidding.”
    **************************************
    Most of the good and excellent teachers I have seen leave the classroom was due to the fact they could not make it financially.

    Most of the good/excellent teacher who I taught with and finished their 35-40 years and retired–were very dedicated to their profession and their students.

    Most of them had stong Christian beleifs and values and were great role models as well as very good teachers.

    **************************
    BTW, I did not teach in an inner city school. Far from it.

  549. MD says:

    In our district they pay $80 a month for family coverage with no co-pays and full 100% coverage (no 80/20 split). No deductible. $10 for brand name drugs. $3 for generic.

    Taking any of this away (or making them pay more) is “barbaric”.

  550. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Jesus 535 is harsh

  551. lisab says:

    “You want to hear how I was laid off when 10% of my insurance company was axed.”

    we did hear about it, and if you recall i was very supportive and encouraged you to take your current job even at less money so that you would risk losing your house or anything like that.

    i never supported your employer firing you or cutting your benefits

  552. MD says:

    MFG – I watched the first minute. Couldn’t take anymore.

  553. DrJay says:

    I pay $180 for family coverage and have a co-pay.

  554. Jerry muthertruckin' Cruncher says:

    Didn’t this blog used to be about politics?

  555. MD says:

    So Lisa – did you read my post? Is changing the HC plan “barbaric”?

  556. DrJay says:

    #571 “Is changing the HC plan “barbaric”?”

    no

  557. sickofdems says:

    Still waiting for you to tell me when i advocated cutting your pay and benefits lisab.

    Though i do still clearly remember you saying the auto companies should stop paying the pensions of the retirees. You then a few days later had the balls to complain that the teachers pensions were not fully funded and needed to be.

    I am sure you will claim amnesia on this.

  558. Bitterlaw says:

    Gruden – lisab is the kind of pick that puts a team over the top. She has no off switch. She hits the hole running and takes no prisoners.

  559. MD says:

    Gruden – “I like the pick”

    I will shoot myself if Gruden says anything negative about any player.

  560. MD says:

    573 – she has big balls

  561. DrJay says:

    #573 I believe I recall that conversation.

  562. Walt says:

    GOVERNING.COM

    Philly School District Plan Would Close 64 Schools, Dismantle Central Office

    MD, the chickens are comin home to roost!!

  563. MD says:

    This draft show sucks.

  564. lisab says:

    “Taking any of this away (or making them pay more) is “barbaric”.”

    if someone decided to cut your pay substantially you might think it was barbaric too

    you made $450k a couple of years ago iirc, most of which probably went straight to the bank, meaning not to necessities

    a teacher who loses $200 a month otoh, might not be able to save at all. particularly those starting out.
    ***********************************

    now, if you really want to have a serious discussion about teacher compensation

    how much does it cost to live in your town, buy a house eventually, have a decent car, have children and save for their college and your own retirement?

    if a teacher cannot live in your town then you should not expect they will teach in your town

  565. MD says:

    578

    Walt – I don’t live in the city. The state has had to take over that train wreck. The school district had 21 employees in the PR office. The Superintendent was given $1m to go away and then filed for unemployment. True story. She had a plan to decrease the budget deficit but didn’t want to disclose the plan to the Mayor.

  566. Bitterlaw says:

    Cream soda, lisab. We just live in different worlds. I will let you make a smartass comment and not respond. I like your moxie.

  567. lisab says:

    sickofdems,

    when you support getting rid of the teachers union

    you support crushing teachers’ pay and benefits. ask any teacher that worked in schools before the union.

  568. MD says:

    On 80K a year, a teacher in my district can live within 20 minutes of the school. Further, most are part of 2 income households which mean that most actually do live in my district. I have a math teacher 3 houses up the street and a history teacher right around the corner.

    Next?

  569. MD says:

    The community is tapped out. No bailout from the state is coming. The feds are insolvent.

    The jig is up. A re-calibration is due. Sorry.

  570. MD says:

    BTW – I am not just picking on the teachers. The admin, no dummies, chose to be part of the teacher’s health ins. The gymnastics they went through on that was stunning. That happened early in 2000. That has to end.

    The super makes 200K. He had it written into his contract that he would receive 35K for his kids college expenses as a bonus. When someone pointed out that his kids were now out of college it was changed to a “travel allowance” meaning he would buy an SUV or something every year. He lives 3 minutes from me. All that must end as well.

  571. jason says:

    I am not up to bashing utopian socialists tonights.

    Any trolls around?

  572. lisab says:

    “Cream soda, lisab. We just live in different worlds.”

    no worries …

    but this idea that teachers deserve less is ludicrous. the median pay for teachers is between $40,000 and $45,000

    no perhaps the teachers and your community make more. i am also sure that the houses in your community cost more.

    why do you expect a teacher to barely make it from paycheck to paycheck? it shows a huge lack of respect to your own teachers despite the fact you are all doing quite well for yourselves today.

  573. sickofdems says:

    As usual you did not address the issue lisab.

    This is why your credibility here sux.

    You specifically accused me of trying to take away your pay and benefits. I have never said that and in fact dont even think of it. If you are part of a union and have a legally recognized contract then it should be honored. By both sides. Period.

    I hate unions. But…they are a fact of life and untill otherwise i have no real issues with things i cannot control.

    As i said….this is just your way of not admitting you made yet another mistake. If i said it….prove it. If i did not…..apologize.

  574. MD says:

    We also have a friend who is a teacher in the middle school. Been there a while. Makes 90K. Her husband is a hedge fund manager. Makes 7 figures. Guess whose healthcare insurance they have?

  575. Bitterlaw says:

    you made $450k a couple of years ago iirc, most of which probably went straight to the bank, meaning not to necessities

    Somehow, the main point of this story is missed. He works mostly on commissions so if his drinking gets out of control or he tells a joke about the Vagina Monologues or starts to smell or his clients go out of business, his income could plunge. Should he have a union to prevent the market from “f”ing him? SHould the taxpayers have to subsidize him and guarantee hs income?

  576. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    It is what it is it pays what it pays, you knew this going in

    Either keep doing it or do something else

    You were neither drafted nor compulsed

  577. MD says:

    A contract must be honored. However, our contract is coming up and the reality is that the revenue isn’t there to support the health benefits in the current form. Sure, if they all agree to a 15k cut then they can keep the gold plated plan. Otherwise, they are going to have to join us in reality.

    The parents are fed up and not going to be manipulated in the usual way.

    Math doesn’t lie.

  578. DrJay says:

    It looks like I get a benefit of about $1100 per month for health insurance to my $180.

  579. lisab says:

    “Further, most are part of 2 income households …” MD

    riiiiiiiight … so teachers are required to be married now, so their husbands can support them with their real manly job.

    fireMEN and policeMEN, being MEN, need enough salary so they can support their families

    but not teachers …

    welcome to the 1950’s

  580. MD says:

    My plan was just revamped. I had no choice. The teacher’s can negotiate but the community has sent a very strong message to the board – no caving.

    The reality is the board has no choice. The revenue options are completely maxed out. They can do nothing else. They have no option.

    Math.

  581. Bitterlaw says:

    why do you expect a teacher to barely make it from paycheck to paycheck

    I don’t know any of those teachers. I do know a lawyer wh works for the City of Philadelphia who works weekends at a Deaprtment store to make extra money. Are there teachers who make less? Absolutely. DO they work in areas where the tax base is lower and incomes are less? Yes. I know more teachers than lawyers with beach houses. Does that mean they all have them? Ofcourse not. But they aren’t living paycheck to paycheck, either.

  582. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    I’ve paid health insurance out of my own pocket for 30 years

    $5,000 deductible now

    People should be more grateful for what their employers do for them as to benefits

  583. sickofdems says:

    The teachers issue will always be a hot button simply BECAUSE of the unions. Teachers do indeed deserve respect and a decent wage. They have a difficult job that involves many different people (the students, the fschool administrators, the parents, even coachs to a degree).

    Teachers must balance the needs of the students versus the willingness to put up with all the crap that flows downhill to them. And its considerable.

    People like lisab dont do the teachers any favors with her circular logic.

  584. MD says:

    90K isn’t enough? I know many who get by on much less somehow.

    You really have no credit-ability on this issue.

    Anyway, it is pointless to debate you because you just change the topic.

  585. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    DC

  586. lisab says:

    “You specifically accused me of trying to take away your pay and benefits”

    you can say that if you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger you did not kill them

    the bullet did

    but in reality it was still you.

    the teachers union is what changed the situation described in #595, where teachers were considered part-time employees … “housewives with jobs who were really supported by their husbands”, to professional employees that have salaries they can live independently on

  587. Bitterlaw says:

    I am on my wife’s insurance because she works for a large firm (economy of scale). My firm is small and I would be reamed if I bought into their plan.

    MD – The Radnor teachers went crazy and complained for a year tht they were working without a contract. The Board finally said, “No. You are working on an expired contract and still getting paid.” They used to meet at the front of the schools and march in together and march out at the end of the day. They “worked to the contract” meaning no after school activities and not writing recommendation letters for students to college. You are going to see 6 months of the same crap in TE.

  588. MD says:

    MFG – we were just switched to a plan where our firm covers the first $700 in claims, we pick up the next $1200, then it goes to 80/20 until $5000 in claims.

    I also pay $130 a month for family coverage. This also applies to many at my firm who don’t make anywhere near the $ I make. A friend of mine makes between 85 and 95K. Applies to him exactly the same way. Everyone is taking a hit but teachers should immune even when there is no money left to sustain it. Strange.

  589. sickofdems says:

    You are simply PATHETIC lisab.

  590. lisab says:

    “90K isn’t enough? I know many who get by on much less somehow. You really have no credit-ability on this issue.”

    i asked a very reasonable question which you did not answer.

    how much does it cost to buy a house, a car, have children, save for retirement and college in your town?

    whatever that number is, which my union assumes to be roughly 1/3rd to 1/5th the median price of a home in a town … is what they will fight for.

    if houses cost $500,000 in your town, then don’t expect them to work for $45,000.

  591. DrJay says:

    Housing prices have plummeted… wouldn’t this reasoning dictate a corresponding pay cut.

  592. sickofdems says:

    Up untill tonight i never fully understood the vitriol aimed at you so often.

    Now i do.

    You talk out of both sides of your mouth. You flat out lie. You call others out when they lie and yet you are one of the worst at it.

    Utterly pathetic.

  593. MD says:

    Bitter – the tactics have already started. They actually convinced some kids to talk at the most recent board meeting. Playing on empathy.

    It doesn’t matter anymore. The economic reality won’t change. That is what is so laughable about a lisab. All of her “points”, which are pretty much false (labor laws Lisa – this ain’t 1955) are irrelevant anyway. The boards all across the nation have run out of options. There simply is no additional revenue streams to cover the short fall. Wait until 2013 and 2014. The mandatory pension contributions are going to be HUGE.

    Math doesn’t lie.

  594. lisab says:

    “I also pay $130 a month for family coverage.”

    somehow i suspect $130 is far less a percentage of your salary then it is for the average teacher in your town.

    plus, in good times, when your salary swells to $450,000, a teacher’s salary does not go up so much.

    again, if a median house in your town costs $150,000 and you pay the median teacher $90,000 … then i would agree that their pay is too high

    somehow i doubt that is the case.

  595. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – that guideline is absurd. Houses in my area go anywhere from $300k to $7.5 million. If the median price is $600k then the teacher salaries have to be in the range of $120k to $200k? Why? I practice in Philadelphia. SHould I be paid enough to live in a penthouse on Rittenhouse Square?

  596. Walt says:

    565.In our district they pay $80 a month for family coverage with no co-pays and full 100% coverage (no 80/20 split). No deductible. $10 for brand name drugs. $3 for generic.
    ********************************
    MD that is rich.

    Here in WV:

    Wife pays $292/mo for HC for her and me

    80-20 copay for doctors, tests, procedures, etc.

    We pay first $1750 for hosp. or $3500 total for she and I, then they pay 80 we pay 20. (unless we go out of state, then they only pay 70%)

    After we pay the first $120 per year for meds, then
    $30-$50 for Brand Drug
    $5 to $10 for generic

  597. MD says:

    She lied again!!!!!!

    I said that I didn’t want to cut their pay which averages 80K. However, the health benefits simply cannot be funded any longer in their current form. No money to afford.

    I have to be very basic here. Also, the Super’s contract needs to be revised at contract time.

    There is a story on the bus drivers union that is just unreal. I know the negotiator on that one. The teacher’s union represented them. They simply could not afford the bene’s for the bus drivers (they had the same as the teachers). They went to the union and told them they did not want to outsource it but that they simply could not afford the gold plated plan anymore.

    They couldn’t even get the union to the table. Once, the union guy hung up on the negotiator. In the end they outsourced it and the drivers now have a much WORSE plan than the one the board proposed. That is the mentality.

  598. lisab says:

    “Housing prices have plummeted… wouldn’t this reasoning dictate a corresponding pay cut.”

    my union suggest that teachers should make between 1/3rd and 1/5th the price of a median home

    if the price flatlines or goes down, then certainly their should be no raises

    and

    if the situation is permanent, such as in detroit, adjustments should be made accordingly.

  599. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – for years, Radnor promised its teachers benefits basedupon a 14% return on investment. I know a broker who said that if he tried to push that on his clients, the SEC would be on his ass. Until recently, we had teachers who are given a bonus when they retired of 150% of their last year’s salary plus their 75% pension. Autoworkers don’t even dare to dream of that.

  600. DrJay says:

    #614 that seems reasonable

  601. sickofdems says:

    Lisab has reminded me that the septic tanks need pumping out.

    Thanks lisab.

  602. MD says:

    Walt – I have inside contacts and know that the negotiator for the board went to the union and said they had to go to $140 a month for family coverage with a $250 deductible and 80/20 coverage after that until $3000.

    The union negotiator laughed and said the health ins is “not in play”, got up and walked out.

    They seriously believe that the community is somehow going to pressure the board to find rev streams that aren’t in existence. It is beyond perplexing.

  603. Walt says:

    MD–

    A lot of the peole outside WI who wholeheartedly (and naively) supported the state employees (incuding teachers) in WI during their battle with Gov. Walker and the legislature had no clue how great the benefit was for their public employees.
    **************************************
    Until they made the changes WI public employees were only paying 1 or 2% of salary into their retirement system and the state picking up the rest.

    And for HC, the public employees were on a gravy train and paying something like 5% of premium cost.

    WI, and many states, finally figured this was unsustainable and way out of wack compared to the private sector.

  604. Bitterlaw says:

    $14o month. I should learn to drive a bus. My firm would be $500 a month just for me.

  605. DrJay says:

    Walt, is your wife also a teacher?

  606. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    613 MD

    Thats the defining mentality of the union person

    Never ever be reasonable even if in the long run it destroys you

    Its how Detroit became Detroit…

  607. Bitterlaw says:

    Where are Add and Bunu. When they aren’t here we turn on each other. It makes me sad.

  608. MD says:

    Housing prices have declined in my area by 15% in the last year alone. About 17% over 3 years. Held value for quite a while. In the last year that hasn’t been the case.

    It really is an academic argument in the end. The board simply can’t get the revenue needed to support the bene’s. Either rework the bene’s or fire some teachers and increase class size. I guess the teacher’s will have to make a decision if they want to eat their own.

    Further, the way HC costs are increasing, it will be played out again and again.

    Math.

  609. lisab says:

    “Houses in my area go anywhere from $300k to $7.5 million. If the median price is $600k then the teacher salaries have to be in the range of $120k to $200k? Why? I practice in Philadelphia. SHould I be paid enough to live in a penthouse on Rittenhouse Square?”

    two points …

    a.) if you support a capitalist system then you should know that the cost of production is immaterial. it is the scarcity of labor that matters. teachers will simply work in other towns where they don’t have to commute so far and get the same salry you offer.

    b.) the union does recognize that the guidelines don’t apply very well to the gated communities. however, most of the usa does not live in $7.5 million dollar homes.

    however, in massachusetts for example, there are many communities with median prices of $350,000 homes, and simply put, teachers will not commute 60 or 70 miles to work, so these communities do end up paying people like brandon $50,000 to start … and yes he may eventually make $80,000

  610. DrJay says:

    MD, our housing dropped 17% from 2010 to 2011.

  611. MD says:

    Bitter – it would be $900 for my wife to get family coverage if she were a full time employee. That is pretty much standard in public accounting.

    That is why I didn’t complain too much when our bene’s were revamped.

  612. DrJay says:

    That was the largest year-to-year drop in the nation that year.

  613. MD says:

    Doc – I don’t think we have seen the bottom yet. Reassessments are happening all the time and that is decreasing revenue to the districts as well.

    If the teachers are smart they should just continue to work on the old contract.

  614. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – You are passionate in your views. Please explain why teachers have to live where they teach as a rule? As for the commute, so what? I have friends who sit on a train for over an hour each way pr drive 50 miles to Philadelphia because they want a bigger house and property than they can get closer to the City. Should their firms double their salary just so they can live closer to the office? I am trying to understand your reasoning.

  615. sickofdems says:

    After re-reading my post of tonight i find it hard to believe that lisab could accuse me of what she did.
    They are all pretty supportive of teachers in general.
    I have great empathy for teachers as a whole.

    Like most people however, i have met a few too many very bad ones to get overly warm and fuzzy about them.

    If lisab is the poster child for teachers unions, they dont have a prayer.

    Logic, class, accountability and above all HONESTY do matter lisab.

    Lisab=FAIL.

  616. MD says:

    Doc – we held value incredibly well here until the last year. Real estate everywhere outside of NYC has finally started to catch up to others who felt the pain earlier. Since I am not selling, I haven’t felt it. I know that FL has gotten crushed. My Dad has been begging me to buy a condo in Hollywood FL for the last year.

  617. MD says:

    Go to Las Vegas and go 7 miles outside of the strip. Devastation.

  618. Bitterlaw says:

    Sick – I have been too harsh on the good teachers. It isn’t even the money that drives me crazy – it’s the attitude. The idea that the rest of the country can go down and the teachers are immune is beyond my ability to comprehend. I do not know any privately employed person who is not constantly concerned about their economic future.

  619. MD says:

    Over 5 years, we are only down about 3 to 5% though.

  620. jason says:

    You guys are wasting time…. lisab is unhindered by facts or by logic.

  621. MD says:

    A ton of good teachers are out there to be certain. I am not for cutting their pay. That isn’t the issue. The problem is that in my district they feel as though they are entitled to the gold plated plan. They aren’t.

  622. Walt says:

    Doc,Yes my wife is still teaching.

    An excellent teacher who still gets bang up results out of her first graders and still enjoys what she does.

    MA +60 and in her 42nd year.

    She has maxed out at $65,000 salary. No salary increase unless there is a statewide pay raise.

    She is thinking she might retire in another year or two.

    I am beginning to think she does not want to spend time with her retired husband.

  623. lisab says:

    ” Please explain why teachers have to live where they teach as a rule? ”

    because while the one percenters may prefer all teachers to live in obamavilles in the poorest section of the poorest community within one hundred miles

    since every major town has to have a public school system, it stands to reason that they should support their local teachers

    that is, the teachers who work in concord massachusetts (a very rich town), should not have to communte from lexington (a rich town), while the teachers that work in lexington, should not have to commute from burlington (a well off town), and the teachers that live in burlington, should not have to commute from woburn (a blue collar town).

    every town should support their own public servants. if your town has high property values part of that value is from your school system.

  624. MD says:

    There it is! The Marxist class warfare.

  625. Bitterlaw says:

    MD – why wife’s hairdresser has a house in Ocean City, NJ. We saw him on the beach 2 years ago. He said that just based on the people who knew who owned houses on his block that we could probably offer them 40% of the market price in cash and they would bolt. We didn’t have the money but it was tempting. We probably live less extravagantly than we could but the bank isn’t calling to foreclose on us.

  626. DrJay says:

    #632 Yes, we’ve been absolutely crushed, and latinos have taken a terrible hit. Parts of Cape Coral had become ghost towns… some estimates showed losses of 70% of home value from all the foreclosures. Thank God my brother got out in the nick of time.

  627. DrJay says:

    #638 Awesome, Walt.

  628. DrJay says:

    My father is still teaching at age 71.

  629. lisab says:

    ” I do not know any privately employed person who is not constantly concerned about their economic future.”

    again, the median salary of teachers is less than $45,000

    so they are very concerned about their economic future

    i bet more than one person on hhr has a car that costs more than $45,000

  630. Bitterlaw says:

    Wow. I am a 1%er. Suck it, MD. I guess that makes my neighbor the $110k 3d grade teacher Warren Buffet.

  631. MD says:

    Bitter – I really am a a-hole about saving for a rainy day. My brother in law is a contractor who is making a ton of money. He laughs at me when he sees me going through the coupons and looking for deals.

    He wants me and him to invest in real estate. 50/50 on the investment but he gets 65% of the profits because he will do all the work.

    I just don’t want to commit the capital. I am paranoid about running out of $.

  632. Bitterlaw says:

    so they are very concerned about their economic future

    I bet the tenured ones sleep pretty well at night. Certainly better than I do.

  633. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    $45,000 is not starvation wages

    Further, no one forced them at gunpoint to do this

    Dissatisfied?

    Leave

    I mean every single person who has ever embarked on a teaching career understands the salary is low, correct?

    Why is this now someone else’s fault?

  634. MD says:

    I am always worried Bitter. The last year taught me my worrying was completely justified.

  635. MD says:

    Good night.

  636. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    “My salary is low! Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!”

    “Uh, you did know that before you started in this field , right?”

    “Yes”

    “Well then…???”

    “Well… Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!”

  637. lisab says:

    you are all welcome to become teachers if you think the pay is so great

    the average pay in philidelphia is such that you will probably have a one hour commute by train

    http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/mississippi/teacher-salary-in-philadelphia-public-school-district/

  638. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Do something else

    Nurses are well paid

  639. addisonst says:

    The kraut hammers it:
    ell, I would say he has been nonstop campaigning since Labor Day.

    We are in a dead heat. I think Republicans are demoralized because they had a big lead a year ago, six months ago. When you blow a nine-run lead you feel that you will lose when the score is tied and we’re going into extra innings.

    [But] they are evenly matched. Obama has a problem, which is his record. And Romney has a problem, which is he is a less attractive personality than Obama is….

    On both sides there is a decline is enthusiasm. Obama is not going to have the young people coming out as they did in 2008. And I think Romney has an enthusiasm gap. Conservatives are not going to be coming out as they were in 2010

  640. Bitterlaw says:

    i bet more than one person on hhr has a car that costs more than $45,000

    Comment by lisab

    I don’t. I would think that was a huge waste of money because I’m not into cars. Other people can spend it if they have it.

    Some people are taller. Some have bigger . . . Life’s not fair. Like I said, if I wanted to have a heart attack before I hit 45, I could bust my ass more. I have taken over 23,000 injections over 29 years and I’m not likely to see 75. I am going back to writing my novel so maybe that will help.

    True story – I worked with a guy who used to talk about a lawyer he went to law school with. His friend had an enormous beach house right on the beach in Stone Harbor (one of the most expensive towns in New Jersey). He asked his friend how the summer was going at the house. his friend replied, “Call my wife. I haven’t had time to go to the beach house in 2 years.” Fortunately, he survived the heart attack he had in his 50s.

  641. sickofdems says:

    “I am beginning to think she does not want to spend time with her retired husband”…comment by Walt.

    Duh.

  642. sickofdems says:

    #636…..Bingo.

  643. DrJay says:

    um… I think the link in 653 is for

    Philadelphia, Mississippi.

  644. lisab says:

    “Life’s not fair. ”

    no it is not

    which is why we band together in a union to make sure we have a living wage

    if life was fair we would not need a union.

  645. lisab says:

    “um… I think the link in 653 is for

    Philadelphia, Mississippi.”

    whoopsie … it should be $52,000 to $58,000

    depending on level

  646. sickofdems says:

    I think Krauthammer is wrong.

    Republicans WILL come out for this election.

    I know i am voting at least 60 or 70 times here in Michigan.

  647. addisonst says:

    Mfg the bear fans are livid at the pick. I view it as our new gm who had to take lovie as a shot across the bow. Lovie and his obsolete cover 2 vs a 3 4 lb. Still laughing at brown fans. Who drafts run back 3 anymore? Obsolete in this era. Nobody wins by drafting “rbr first anymore. I think pgh was last to do that.

  648. Walt says:

    Each state’s school system is different so talking about “my state, your state” is really apples and coconuts.

    In WV there are 55 county school systems, not 5000+ like ther are in PA. But 90-95% of all decisions about teacher pay is determined at the state level.

    The HUGE portion of WV teachers salary is determined by a state salary schedule passed by the legislature.

    In about 18 counties the state salary schedule is ALL the teachers get in those counties. Count voters there refuse to pass property taxes to further support schools and raise teachers salaries.

    Voters in the other counties DO pass excess levies on property taxes and tax themselves more to raise money to provide for education costs, including supplemental pay for teachers in that particular county.

    The amount provided to teachers by excess levies vary widely by county. Some counties every teacher gets another $100 added to their state base salary. Other counties it is $300, or $700, or $1200, or $1500, etc.

    In my county, besides getting the state pay scale teachers also get an average of about $3500-$4000 more pay (depends on years of experience and degree level).
    *************************************
    My point is that in WV we do NOT have the same LOCAL knock down drag out negotiations regarding teacher salaries & fringe benefits because 95% of everything is determined at the state level–not at the local level like it is in PA or other places.

  649. DrJay says:

    #661 That sounds more like it.

  650. lisab says:

    “Uh, you did know that before you started in this field , right?”

    yes, but we did not sign on for low wages to then have our wages cut

  651. janz says:

    Well somethig good happened while I was gone for the afternoon/evening —> Obama and Govt backs off new limits on child labor on farms They simply got too much flack from the people. The Dept of Labor has withdrown their stupid bill….

  652. sickofdems says:

    Even if life was fair we would still need a union, cause i am sure MD would still be out there…..somewhere.

  653. addisonst says:

    Ok technically saint did. But reggie wasn’t starting back.

  654. lisab says:

    ” But 90-95% of all decisions about teacher pay is determined at the state level.”

    yeah, that is the fight going on now

    my side is losing …

    the nea is generally strongly in favor of state funded education, not local

    a VERY bad idea

  655. Bitterlaw says:

    From lisab’s charts:

    Median family income: $30,756

    This is lower than the average teacher salaries after a few years. That’s right – the teachers make more than many of the students’ families. I think those salaries are artificially skewed in that report. Many teachers are the $80-$100k range. The District is also in a huge hole because it can’t pay the benefits at the same rate anymore. The union refuses any compromises so they are actually closing schools. However, the union is doing it “for the children.”

  656. DrJay says:

    Bitterlaw, see 659, 661.

  657. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Yeah, Add the Cleveland pick was head scratching, no wonder they have been so bad for so long

  658. janz says:

    I like Polipundit’s electoral map much better than the earlier one posted about Karl Rove’s. Here Poli projects something like 302 for Romney.

  659. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Reggie was more of a specialty speed guy than a rb per se

  660. addisonst says:

    Oh good we are back to malaprop and get a teaching job. Teacher salaries are dropping bc there is a glut of teachers, there is less money to pay teachers due to prior teacher pay and there are less students. So, let’s raise teacher pay.

  661. lisab says:

    “Even if life was fair we would still need a union, cause i am sure MD would still be out there…..somewhere.”

    we have a union because many people think teachers should be married and thus do not deserve a living salary, as per #584

    after all teaching is just an extra job housewive’s get to help the household budget, not a real job

  662. Walt says:

    MFG–(re video @ #535

    I was stunned that in that video a Black man would have such harsh words for his fellow pro-Trayvon rallying African Americans.
    ************************************
    He did speak the truth about Black on Black crime getting cricket noises response out of Black “leaders”.

    He was harsh on them.

  663. lisab says:

    “So, let’s raise teacher pay.”

    actually we are discussing cutting teacher pay significantly

    but thanks for playing

  664. sickofdems says:

    Bitter…..dont you ever sleep??

    I see you posting late at night and early in the morning.

    Wife don’t like ya?

  665. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    No one has argued for cutting teacher pay

    But 100% coverage health plans with no deductible have to go

  666. janz says:

    From RRH:

    “Wisconsin State Senate: The DLCC is touting a poll conducted by Myers Research.

    SD-21: ,John Lehman (D) 51 Van Wanggaard(R) 47

    SD-23: Terry Moulton (R) 49 Kristen Dexter (D) 47

    SD-29: Jerry Petrowski (R) 51 Donna Seidel (D) 45″

  667. Bitterlaw says:

    $120k for a gym teacher in Ridgewood, New Jersey is a “living wage?” Man, those cops and firemen are suckers. All they do is get shot at and burned 12 months a year for less money.

  668. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Walt 678 its depressing

  669. addisonst says:

    malaprop since teachers are so valuable please tell us what services should be cut or taxes raised to keep teachers above market value.

  670. DrJay says:

    584. “On 80K a year, a teacher in my district can live within 20 minutes of the school. Further, most are part of 2 income households which mean that most actually do live in my district. I have a math teacher 3 houses up the street and a history teacher right around the corner.” -md

    I really don’t see 677 following from this.

  671. sickofdems says:

    #677…

    I really dont think that is the prevailing attitude lisab.

    Remember….i USED to be on your side.

  672. Bitterlaw says:

    Sick – do wives ever really like their husbands? I have to go to bed. I will look for the qoutes where anybody said that teacher pay should be cut in the morning. I thought we were talking about benefits. I did say that teachers in my town were insulted by a 3.5% raise (a bigger annual number than I’ve seen in 10 years).

  673. addisonst says:

    Why shouldn’t teacher pay be cut again if property values have dropped again? Btw the proximity thing cracks me up. A teacher w a good job in a good district shouldn’t have to commute bc why exactly?

  674. lisab says:

    “No one has argued for cutting teacher pay

    But 100% coverage health plans with no deductible have to go”

    that is effectively cutting their pay.

    after 10 years i made less than $850 a week gross

    a starting teacher made about $500 a week.

    how much do you propose cutting? it is not insignificant.

  675. lisab says:

    “Why shouldn’t teacher pay be cut again if property values have dropped again? ”

    if property values go down on a permanent basis, teacher salaries should go down

    certainly they should not be going up

  676. lisab says:

    “Sick – do wives ever really like their husbands? ”

    yes

    i am sure your wife really likes you.

    that is not to say she doesn’t wish you had better personal hygiene

  677. addisonst says:

    Ummm I’m for cutting teacher pay and bennies. Is that gonna be a problem at the obama rallies? I’m for cutting teacher pay a lot.

  678. DrJay says:

    My wife makes much more than I do… but she decided to stay home with the little one, making me the breadwinner. I live 20 minutes from work… I made about 1/4 of the median home price for the area before the collapse. We get by… no money problems.

  679. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    690

    In what state?

    My sister in law has taught for 14 or 15 years here in LA and makes 80k with benefits out the ying yang and this is a southern state that in general pays low salaries

  680. Bitterlaw says:

    Back for a minute. Not fair. Lisab. I smell like Irish spring.

  681. lisab says:

    “I really dont think that is the prevailing attitude lisab.”

    i have consistently argued my union’s position

    teachers deserve to be able to live in the community they live in. they should not be required to be married or commute from poor communities where we are forced to live due to low salaries.

    besides, if all teachers lived in some detroit like community, where would the teachers who taught in that town be forced to live?

  682. Walt says:

    “the nea is generally strongly in favor of state funded education, not local

    a VERY bad idea” [lisab]
    ********************************
    I agree with you here.

    I think generally more decisions ought to be at the local level and give locally elected school board more authority.

    In WV with one state salary scale, there is no way to fairly adjust salaries in areas like mine where the average home price is nearly $300,000 while the average home price in WV is a little over $100K–and in the lowest county it is $18,000. For the AVERAGE home value.

    May God have mercy on McDowell County. It is truely third world. Not too many decades ago about 122,000 people lived there. Now about 20,000.
    ************************************
    In neighboring VA and MD the counties determine a big portion of teacher salaries and the staste kicks in extra money in VA to supplement teacher salaries in counties with high housing costs.

  683. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    DCC

  684. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Abolish all public education, clearly the whole idea has failed

    Privatize all education

    Ie free enterprise

  685. lisab says:

    “In what state?”

    illinois

    i was in cornfield country not chicago.

    teacher salaries in chicago are something like $50,000 starting … maybe more

    of course an apartment in chicago is over a $1,000 a month

  686. addisonst says:

    Oh. My home is down 33% in value. Glad to know its temporary. My taxes are up in that time frame. Feel free to see the problem w teachr pay

  687. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Sick that kind of reminds me of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rHFreKjvs

  688. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Our school system reminds me of tractor factories in the Soviet Union

  689. sickofdems says:

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcfdejrk5h1qzjix8.gif

    Bitter…..getting ready for bed.

  690. lisab says:

    “I think generally more decisions ought to be at the local level and give locally elected school board more authority.”

    i am strongly in favor of local funding

    except … in cases like detroit where the system has collapsed

    that school system should be taken over by the state

  691. addisonst says:

    So my hs dist highest pay in us I think meaning most desirable should accomodate the commute. Ok who can spot the flaw in malapriops logic? Drive 3 hrs if you have to.

  692. lisab says:

    “Oh. My home is down 33% in value. Glad to know its temporary. My taxes are up in that time frame. Feel free to see the problem w teachr pay”

    has your pay been cut 33%?

  693. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    Good night all

  694. addisonst says:

    Chicago can’t afford to pay teachers 50k

  695. lisab says:

    “So my hs dist highest pay in us I think meaning most desirable should accomodate the commute”

    well then you should become a teacher

    remkember you said you would do my job for $55,000 … well it is open

    of course as a new teacher you would only make about $27,000 but you knew that

  696. DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus says:

    It’ll be OK Wahkeena

  697. Walt says:

    MFG–

    “its depressing”

    Comment by DogsAndParakeetsAgainstUnicornJesus
    *********************************
    Do you mean it is depressing that the Black community only allows themselves to be manipulate and riled up when it is white on black shootings, but never when it is black on black killings?

  698. DrJay says:

    good night mfg

  699. lisab says:

    “Chicago can’t afford to pay teachers 50k”

    then they will have to do without

  700. sickofdems says:

    704….loved it.

    Pretty sure i dated her back in school….

  701. addisonst says:

    Why does it matter what my pay is cut?b if it hasnt been does that effect teacher pay?

  702. addisonst says:

    You won’t do the job for 27 but hundreds will. So change jobs

  703. Walt says:

    In WV, the legislature does not give annual pay increase to teachers.

    Across the border in MD and VA those counties do give hefty annual pay raises.

    WV might pass a 3% pay increase one year and then provide anther 1.2% pay raise 3 years later, then another 2.5% raise 4 years later.

  704. Walt says:

    lisab–

    My wife and I live in one WV county. I taugth here &she drives 25 mins. to teach in WV county to the east.

    25% of the people who teach in her county live in my county. Why? Housing costs/values in our county are about $50K less so many who teach in her county cannot afford to live there.

    Another huge number of teachers who live in my county drive each day to teach in bordering (high houseing cost)MD or VA counties where they earn $10K-25K higher salaries.

    I do not understand why you say that teachers have to live in the county where they work.
    *****************************
    As a matter of fact of all those in the labor force (all jobs, govt or private)in the county where she teaches 40% work in some other county. Many commute into the D.C. area or work in Winchester, Front Royal or Leesburg VA, Fredrick MD, come to my county to the west, etc.

    I do not know why you say people need to live in the county where they work.

  705. Diogenes says:

    State based educational funding is a big reason why California’s secondary schools went from being the best in the nation to being sandwiched between Alabama and Lousiana in the rankings.

    Some districts spend millions a year just to lobby Sacramento.

  706. sickofdems says:

    Walt…i worked at Ford all those years and could not afford to live in the county in which my plant was located. Partly because of the incredibly high cost of living in a very very liberal county dominated by a huge university (and my favorite college football team),

    I had to drive over 40 miles one way every day for 31 years. Its just the way it was.

    This idea that you (lisab) are somehow OWED a home in the area you work is truly insane.

    I will never understand that “its owed to me” mentality.

  707. sickofdems says:

    http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/samuel_L_Jackson.gif

    This is how i react to some of lisab’s logic.

  708. Apologetic California says:

    Useless trivia of the night derived from the partisan composition of state legislatures.

    Of the 99 state legislatures:
    Republicans have 100+ members in 5 House chambers (Georgia, Missouri, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Texas). Democrats have 100+ in three (Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire) though in NH they are outnumbered nearly 3-1 by Republicans.Republicans are in the single digits in Hawaii with just 8, and no state has a lower chamber with less than 10 Democrats (Wyoming has the fewest Democrats).

    Six state senates have fewer than 10 Republicans (Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont and West Virginia). Eight states claim the lofty achievement of keeping Democrat state senators in the single digits–Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Missouri, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming. Obviously no state senate has more than 100+members of one party. But the Republicans in Minnesota and Indiana takes the prize of having the largest contingent of state senators from either party with 37 members each.

    This has been your worthless trivia of the day. http://www.ncsl.org/documents/statevote/2012_Legis_and_State.pdf

  709. lisab says:

    “You won’t do the job for 27 but hundreds will. So change jobs”

    well apparently they won’t

    of course you can always become a teacher

  710. lisab says:

    “I had to drive over 40 miles one way every day for 31 years. Its just the way it was.”

    if you did not like it you should have changed jobs to a factory in the town you lived in

    much like teachers work in the town they live in

  711. sickofdems says:

    Lisab….how can someone as bright as you be so dense?

    The point is…..and read this s l o w l y…..

    I worked where the job was….and lived where i could afford to. I did not bitch and complain because i thought i was owed a residence in the area in which i worked.

  712. Tim says:

    #729:
    Because she’s not bright? Just a guess…

  713. Tim says:

    #701:
    Yeah, that should work as well as it once did.

    Oh, wait…………..

  714. Tim says:

    #91:
    What an idiotic post that is.

  715. Tim says:

    #111:
    Every time you buy anything in the free market that is union-made, what are you doing, then?
    Another idiotic post.

  716. Tim says:

    It was fun here, yesterday. Of course the odds were in my favor, since there were only about 20 of you.