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Bush Leads GOP Field in NH

Suffolk University has released a new poll for the Republican race in New Hampshire and it shows Jeb Bush edging Donald Trump, with the two of them being the only two candidates to reach double digits.

PRESIDENT – NEW HAMPSHIRE – GOP PRIMARY (Suffolk)
Jeb Bush 14%
Donald Trump 11%
Scott Walker 8%
Marco Rubio 7%
Ben Carson 6%
Chris Chirstie 5%
rand Pal 4%
Ted Cruz 4%
Carly Fiorina 4%
Mike Huckabee 2%
John Kasich 2%
George Pataki 1%
Rick Perry 1%
Rick Santorum 1%
Lindsey Graham <1%
Bobby Jindal <1%
Bob Ehrlich <1%
Mark Everson 0%
Jim Gilmore 0%

I had to look up who the heck Mark Everson was and he apparently is some former IRS Commissioner that is actually running for President. Here is his website. This poll was done June 18-22 among 500 likely primary voters.

Posted by Dave at 12:32 pm
Filed under: General | Comments (187)

187 Responses to “Bush Leads GOP Field in NH”

  1. BayernFan says:

    These Obamatrade votes are a gift to Donald Trump. Moreso than to Rand Paul, imo.

  2. @1 Gee, I wonder why Wes mocked your post last thread/sarc

  3. Bitterlaw says:

    Wes – Despite everything I say about you, you are a good person. Thank you.

    In regard to the flag, no need to restate my issues with it. I know it will be another question that the GOP candidates will have to answer. I would like to see an answer like this:

    “I understand that to many millions of Americans who do not kill people, this flag is a symbol of their heritage. To many millions of Americans who do not kill people, it is a symbol of past injustice and current hatred. I say take it down from public spaces but display it or burn it privately based on your own beliefs. We need to solve the problems of 2015 and beyond.”

  4. Bitter’s response on the Flag issue in the last thread is strangely very moderate from him given the subject in question. Good for him.

  5. Waingro says:

    “Only 5 Rs who voted against it were Collins (?!), Cruz, Paul, Sessions, and Shelby. Cruz switched his vote last second as a lame attempt to try and get more for a deal from his vote.”

    Susan Collins is a big lefty on this issue.

    http://www.collins.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=f1a660d6-6a69-4b17-89d3-77b7a2269108

  6. @5 I could see why the other 4 were against it (even if I disagreed), especially Sessions who seems more and more to me like protectionist nativist. never knew Collins was the other way on it though.

  7. BayernFan says:

    Author, I see you are still as dense as ever.

    Did you read the poll that this thread is attached to?

    This Obamatrade stuff only helps Trump even more.

    Wes, you are the supposed political historian…..

    Hasn’t the US experienced a strong third party presence every 20 years or so? Perot in the early 90s, Wallace in the late 60s, dixiecrats in the late 40s, LaFollette etc in the 20s, Bull Moose in the teens.

    All I am saying is that a third party run is there for the taking for someone with the money and the mouth like Trump. He has a real issue he can crusade on that dovetails nicely with the stuff he has been talking about lately. Will he? Who knows what his real intention are.

    But I don’t think that the USA is immune to the type of party that UKIP is an example of. Nationalist parties are on the rise in Europe. Look at the Danish elections last week. Look at the vote share UKIP received. Look at National Front polling in France. Hungary, Austria, Sweden, etc etc.

    The established order is being threatened more and more every day by people who think more and more that the rich and powerful (whether government, business or labor) are in cahoots and are only making themselves a mint while screwing the middle class. Throw immigration into the mix and you have the makings of a real populist uprising.

    This is building. This is real. It is everywhere.

    But you go ahead and jerk your self in your mommy’s basement Author. lol

    And Wes can continue banging Chili’s waitresses (yeah right).

  8. Looks like I hit a nerve w/ the Obamacare loving Bayern.

  9. Mr.Vito says:

    “I hope Senarors Capito and Manchin voted NO on
    TPA.”

    I’m sure they did. West Virginians don’t need toilet paper.

  10. Waingro says:

    I’ll say this: I am slightly concerned that Trump could go for a 3rd party run if angered enough after getting inevitably squashed in the primaries. (I had previous concerns about Christie pre-Bridgegate – albeit in a MUCH different context).

    He has the ego, following and financial means to go for it and make an impact.

    And if that happens, it’s ball game: President Hillary.

    He’s come this far now. It’s no longer just a “publicity stunt”.

    So as much as this pains me to say: the GOP candidates and other conservative pundits need to bite their lips as much as possible with him, so he will go away quickly and quietly.

  11. Bobby says:

    LOLSUFFOLK.

    Good news for Carly regardless.

  12. Rick Wilson wrote a piece that GOPers should stay out of the drama with him, largely ignore him, and just watch him fade away.

  13. Waingro says:

    #12, good advice. I think Cruz and others have done the right thing simply “welcoming him” to the race. He has already openly and nastily pounced on anyone who has dared come out against him. (Krauthammer and George Will come to mind.)

    Let the guy “beclown” himself and implode. No need to push his buttons.

  14. Bitterlaw says:

    This is building. This is real. It is everywhere.

    Nope. I still think, “This is real! This is happening!” is a better catch phrase.

  15. Mr.Vito says:

    If Trump runs it’s President Hillary?

    Is there a fan under the podium?

    The GOP candidate will have two grating idiots to look better than.

  16. lisab says:

    what is the capital of greece?

  17. Mr.Vito says:

    G

  18. lisab says:

    about 10 euros

  19. Waingro says:

    #16, heh. Yes, I’m a bit of an eeyore on Trump!

  20. Mr.Vito says:

    When do the jokes start about playing the Trump card?

  21. lisab says:

    Bitterlaw,

    “In December 2013, State District Judge Jean Boyd sentenced a North Texas teenager, Ethan Couch to 10 years probation for drunk driving and killing four pedestrians and injuring 11 after his attorneys successfully argued that the teen suffered from affluenza (though in this case, the lawyer used the term ‘affluenza’ to mean that Couch was unable to understand the consequences of his actions because of his financial privilege) and needed rehabilitation, and not prison.”

  22. lisab says:

    Walmart, Sears, eBay to stop selling Confederate flag merchandise

  23. BayernFan says:

    Will Netflix pull “Birth of a Nation”?

  24. BayernFan says:

    … and/or “CSA: The Confederate States of America”?

  25. Corey says:

    I believe it is likely that Donald Trump is literally in cahoots with the Clintons and is attempting to sabatoge the GOP primary process as part of their bidding.

    He has a long association with them, having endorsed Hillary in 2008 and having given large sums of money to both Clintons. In 2012, he went on tv and talked about how wonderful the Clintons were and kept open the possibility that he would endorse her in 2016. Hillary sat in the front row at his most recent wedding.

    When Trump explored running for President in 2000, it was as a social liberal, who wanted government mandated universal health care. Now, he is this right-wing populist/birther.

    Trump seems to be going to great lengths to attack all of the other GOP candidates personally, but has said virtually nothing in cricitism of Hillary. That ought to be telling enough. If he does attack her, it is likely to be in an extremely over the top and irrelevant fashion at a debate (something like”she was so horrible in the bedroom her husband cheated on her, how can we trust she will perform better in the Oval Office.”)

    Then, a small minority of people at the debate will laugh or applaud at that line, probably the paid actors that Trump had at his announcement event, and the media will have the narrative about the entire GOP field and all of their supporters.

    Ultimately, we may be waiting to see if he runs third party in order to help her or endorses her outright, but I think people should really start asking questions now regarding the relationship between Trump and the Clintons, before this gets too far.

  26. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    I don’t really know what to say about the Confederate Flag. It’s not a symbol that strikes any sort of emotional chord with me.

    The only thing I could say is that I don’t see how it is tied in anyway to the Charleston Massacre.

  27. Corey says:

    Taking down the Confederate flag was always the right thing to do. It should have been done a long time ago. It just appears it took such a horrific and shocking crime in order for people to understand how painful and useless of a symbol it is on state property.

  28. Bitterlaw says:

    28 Barrett – The scumbag killer was proudly holding it in photos on his fb page. He also had at least one photo of him burning an American flag. It is pretty clear which flag he preferred. I am not saying that Confederate flags turn people into racist murderers. However, this racist murderer clearly embraced that flag.

  29. Bitterlaw says:

    29 was in reference to 27. Sorry.

    It is good to see Corey posting again.

  30. lisab says:

    fox news anchor attacks musician with axe!

  31. Mr.Vito says:

    Scumbag killers have hitched their wagons to all sorts of things.

  32. Corey says:

    The flag should not be flown, irregardless of what happened.

    Jeb Bush did the right thing in Florida in 2001 when he removed the flag.

    After what happened though, anybody making a stubborn political point in defense of the Confederate flag would be exhibit one as to why the Republican Party might lose elections.

  33. Bitterlaw says:

    Mr. Vito – I sense that we could have a lengthy, heated, and ultimately useless discussion about that flag. No point in that. I think politically, the GOP is making a smart choice in NOT defending that flag. On the other hand, I am sure Huckabee is probably getting ready to defend it.

  34. Mr.Vito says:

    “I sense that we could have a lengthy, heated, and ultimately useless discussion about that flag.”

    I doubt it.

  35. Mr.Vito says:

    The Confederate flag means nothing to me. I’m not even a southerner.

  36. Bitterlaw says:

    GFY, Mr. Vito. We absolutely could have a lengthy, heated, and ultimately useless discussion about that flag.

  37. Corey says:

    It should not be forgotten that the flag was only put up in South Carolina in 1961, by a Democrat Governor, in a deliberate act of rebellion against integration.

    It is not a flag that flew at the South Carolina Statehouse when the U.S. won World War I or World War II. There is no reason it has to be there now, and not in a museum.

  38. Bitterlaw says:

    I thought a sock would stand in solidarity with any fabric, Mr. Vito.

  39. Mr.Vito says:

    “It should not be forgotten that the flag was only put up in South Carolina in 1961, by a Democrat Governor, in a deliberate act of rebellion against integration.”

    politifact

    Daniel Hollis, a member of the commission responsible for planning South Carolina’s Confederate War Centennial, recalled the exact day the flag was first hoisted during an interview published in 1999.

    Hollis said the flag itself went up on April 11, 1961, for the opening of the Civil War centennial “at the request of Aiken Rep. John A. May.”

    “May told us he was going to introduce a resolution to fly the flag for a year from the capitol. I was against the flag going up,” Hollis said, “but I kept quiet and went along.”

    The resolution was approved in 1962, but never included a date for the flag’s removal.

    “It just stayed up,” Hollis said. “Nobody raised a question.”

    Our ruling

    …Whether it was raised as a deliberate symbol of a “resistance to racial desegregation” is not completely clear. Experts and research find a circumstantial link between the spread of the flag and the racial divisions of the 1950s and 1960s.

  40. “It is good to see Corey posting again.”

    *bites lip*

  41. Mr.Vito says:

    “I thought a sock would stand in solidarity with any fabric, Mr. Vito.”

    You thought a sock would have to defend any banner because it is made of fabric? Nazi? ISIS? GFY.

    Is this heated yet? we’re working on lengthy…

  42. The flag doesn’t offend me in any way, shape, or form. Like Vito I have zero feelings about it. If Haley wants it down in response to the outrage mob, then w/e it’s her choice and looking at the situation good politics. Buth that POS would have still done what he did whether that flag was flying or not. The left seems unwilling to accept that fact.

  43. Mr.Vito says:

    Our arguments are never useless Mr. Bitter… they serve the important purpose of keeping us occupied while we drink our Coke.

  44. Corey says:

    Where do I go to spread my legitimate and cutting-edge Donald Trump Is Working For the Clintons Conspiracy Theory?

  45. Bitterlaw says:

    GFY twice, Mr. Vito.*

    *I don’t know. I’m just not feeling this battle right now.

  46. Mr.Vito says:

    My daughter’s birth mother likes to decorate with the confederate flag, and biker stuff, and tattoos, and just about any other symbol of rebellion. It seems to be sort of a culture in Jacksonville/Daytona that spreads to pockets east and south. A lot of North Florida is South Georgia, as I’ve said before.

  47. Bitterlaw says:

    Corey – Ask Bunu. He is our expert on following bizarre conspiracy sources.

  48. Mr.Vito says:

    “Where do I go to spread my legitimate and cutting-edge Donald Trump Is Working For the Clintons Conspiracy Theory?”

    Infowars?

  49. Waingro says:

    Theo Keith
    ? @TheoKeith

    NEW: @MattBevin, in a statement to me, calls for removing the Jefferson Davis statue in the KY Capitol. #KyGov
    12:47 PM – 23 Jun 2015

  50. Corey says:

    Is your daughter adopted or is this an “ex?” Please the fifth if we should’t have asked.

  51. Bitterlaw says:

    MD used to take the 5th. Oh. We’re not talking about Scotch?

  52. Mr.Vito says:

    I’ve said many times she is adopted, and no you shouldn’t have asked.

  53. Corey says:

    I don’t recall hearing that before. Adoption is a wondeful thing. (The rebel flag is not.)

  54. Mr.Vito says:

    The confederate flag is a wonderful piece of art. Maybe I’ll do a Jasper Johns style series…

  55. Talking about Bevin, i’m surprised we’ve gone as long as we have w/o a non-partisan poll of that race. I really thought at least Ras would do one poll after the primary.

  56. Mr.Vito says:

    Everyone loved it on the Duke boys’ Dodge Charger.

  57. Corey says:

    I certainly enjoy Lynyrd Skynyrd but that does not mean that the flag should be honored.

    Putting aside the fact that American soldiers and civilians were actually killed by those marching with that flag (and we all know who won that war), it has to be understood why a large number of our fellow Americans would legitimately see it as they do. It does not mean that everyone who likes the flag has malice, but people need to give up that flag, or at least not expect an entity of the U.S. government to display it.

    I certainly know how I feel when I see a swastika.

  58. Mr.Vito says:

    The Florida flag has a red X across it like the confederate flag… It’s St. Andrew’s cross, but I’m sure it will offend someone anyway.

    When is the next Draw Muhammad day? Maybe we can draw him burning a confederate flag.

  59. Corey says:

    That Slippery Slope thing does not work very well in this circumstance.

  60. Mr.Vito says:

    “I certainly know how I feel when I see a swastika.”

    That is a really cool piece of art, too… sacred in Hinduism and Buddhism. You should get out more.

  61. If the State Govt doesn’t want it around in their premises that’s their decision. But now the left wants it banned from private businesses (same ones who sell Che shirts) and collectors. War memorials are being desecrated. It’s too late Cutler’s #1 fan, That slippery slope is already showing up. Again, given the situation Haley’s action were good politics but to the left it won’t be enough.

  62. Mr.Vito says:

    “That Slippery Slope thing does not work very well in this circumstance.”

    What’s that? Your forehead?

  63. Mr.Vito says:

    Look at that, Mr. Bitter… how am I doing? You’re missing it. Getting lengthy and tetchy… not quite heated

  64. Mr.Vito says:

    “Putting aside the fact that American soldiers and civilians were actually killed by those marching with that flag…”

    and the British flag… and the French flag… and… hell… ban em all. Ours, too. We’re the worst offender… ask Bunu.

  65. Mr.Vito says:

    Except Canada… no one is scared of Canada…

  66. Mr.Vito says:

    Why couldn’t racists have adopted the New York Yankees logo? Damn.

  67. Corey says:

    There’s nothing “cool” about a swastika.

    And no foreign government’s flag, past or present, should be displayed, just for the sake of being displayed (not talking about a diplomatic visit), on government property other than the legitimate government flags of that location.

  68. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    Bitter, I have to agree with Mr. Vito on this. All sorts of symbols have been unfairly linked to all sorts of bad ideas.

    I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers or stir up debate, I’m just saying I don’t see how the tragedy in Charleston is linked to what flag they decide to hoist up.

    Now I will say this. Dylan Roof deserves the death penalty. I would even say revoke his rights as an American and publicly torture him until he dies. That’s a whole separate debate.

    Also, I will agree that the Confederate Flag should have come down a long, long time ago. It does symbolize a harsh past, and for that, it has earned it’s place in a Museum.

  69. “There’s nothing “cool” about a swastika.”

    Before the Nazis desecrated it’s meaning is what Vito means. It meant something else entirely and more noble elsewhere.

  70. Corey says:

    So Barrett, how is that disagreeing with those who say the flag should come down?

  71. lisab says:

    Push To Remove Bust Of KKK Founding Leader From TN Capitol

  72. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    #59 wins post of the day

  73. Corey says:

    Take down the portrait of Robert C. Byrd from the Senate Appropriations Hearing Room.

  74. soccer guru says:

    “Swastika. Called svastika in Sanskrit and manji in Japanese, it is a symbol of auspiciousness in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. ”

    Corey has a problem with this?

  75. F*ck. We don’t need you on this one. Butt out.

  76. soccer guru says:

    “The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, which means “good fortune” or “well-being.” The motif (a hooked cross) appears to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia, perhaps representing the movement of the sun through the sky. To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism.”

    Time to attack Asia.

  77. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    #72 – I thought you said taking down the Confederate Flag was always the right thing to do…?

    Just because I don’t believe the tragedy is linked to the flag doesn’t mean I believe the flag should stay up.

  78. soccer guru says:

    Wipe your ass, dick wad

  79. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    And here comes Soccer Guru to ruin the day

  80. soccer guru says:

    Good

  81. *facepalm* How the Hell do you drop in IQ so fast when trying to insult someone?

  82. lisab says:

    it is very weird when you first move to a buddhist country and there are swastikas on temples, paintings, clothing etc.

  83. soccer guru says:

    Those who have no historical perspective are bound by the antics of a loon.

  84. Corey says:

    Yeah, whatever a swastika used to mean was sort of ruined a long time ago. The world can go on without being concerned about what it used to mean.

    Barrett, I do not believe anybody here is saying that the flag caused the attack. As I have said, it should have come down a long time ago. I think a lot of people might now look at the victims’ families, especially with the grace the are exhibiting and coming to the realization of what that flag may symbolize to them and how we should do what we can to right that wrong.

  85. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    #80 was an incredibly weak insult.

    Soccer Dipsh*t, do you listen to yourself when you speak?

  86. lisab says:

    “whatever a swastika used to mean was sort of ruined a long time ago. ”

    ruined in the west

    in asia it doesn’t mean what you think it means

  87. Mr.Vito says:

    “There’s nothing “cool” about a swa.stika.”

    Sure there is… it looks like a rotational vector field, the name comes from Sans.krit, it’s a sacred symbol. All cool st.uff.

  88. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    Corey, I think I may have misunderstood your previous post, because I definitely agree with what you just said

  89. Corey says:

    The Confederate Battle Flag only meant one thing though when it was designed and first incorporated.

    This has nothing to do with the St. Andrews Cross.

  90. soccer guru says:

    The world goes on without being concerned by what you see in the swastika.

    Step outside your cocoon, and just visit any SE Asian country to see the swastika is used.

    Today.

  91. Corey says:

    Mr. Vito, have you attempted to consider what it might symbolize and what the visceral reaction might be for a certain group of people?

    The fact that I may be part of that group should be irrelevant.

    I do not think you would say that those people are wrong to feel that way. Correct me if I misunderstand that.

    But this might be an instance of where somebody just does not understand unless they are really in that position.

  92. Uh-oh, I smell another tantrum coming and I’m not talking about the The guy obsessed w/ bodily fluids

  93. Corey says:

    I prefer America over Southeast Asia or anywhere else in the world.

  94. “But this might be an instance of where somebody just does not understand unless they are really in that position.”

    You’re doing this yourself 😐

  95. Bitterlaw says:

    SG doesn’t see why a Jewish person (and all decent people) would be offended by a swastika? Too far gone to save him.

    He probably doesn’t see why blacks are offended by the Confederate flag, either.

  96. Well not what I wanted, but PPP shows Conway up just by 3, 38-35 in KY

    http://t.co/dBMwYryihP

  97. Mr.Vito says:

    “The Confederate Battle Flag only meant one thing though when it was designed and first incorporated.”

    That flag was never officialy used by the Confederacy according to historians, so you are also wrong that Americans died under that flag, just like you were wrong about why the flag was put at the Capitol.

    The day is early though. You’ll get someting right.

  98. lisab says:

    “Mr. Vito, have you attempted to consider what it might symbolize and what the visceral reaction might be for a certain group of people?”

    in the west it is a symbol of evil

    in asia, they do not make that connection

    and they are not going to rip down all their temples and rebuild them

    i just told people, “in the west it is a symbol of evil so don’t give them gifts with that symbol.”

  99. Re: #98

    Oops, Bevin is actually the one up

    Like I said earlier i’d really like to see a non partisan poll instead, but that’s bad news for Conway given the source

  100. soccer guru says:

    “I prefer America over Southeast Asia or anywhere else in the world.

    Comment by Corey — June 23, 2015 @ 4:00 pm”

    To each his own. Billions of people don’t care what you prefer.

    “In Asia, the swastika symbol first appears in the archaeological record around[22] 3000 BC in the Indus Valley Civilization.[29][30] It also appears in the Bronze and Iron Age cultures around the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. In all these cultures the swastika symbol does not appear to occupy any marked position or significance, but appears as just one form of a series of similar symbols of varying complexity. In the Zoroastrian religion of Persia, the swastika was a symbol of the revolving sun, infinity, or continuing creation.[31][32] It rose to importance in Buddhism during the Mauryan Empire and in Hinduism with the decline of Buddhism in India during the Gupta Empire. With the spread of Buddhism, the Buddhist swastika reached Tibet and China. The symbol was also introduced to Balinese Hinduism by Hindu kings. The use of the swastika by the Bön faith of Tibet, as well as Chinese Taoism, can also be traced to Buddhist influence. In Thailand, the word “Sawaddi” is normally used as a greeting which simply means “hello”; Sawaddi-ka (feminine) and Sawaddi-krup (masculine). “Sawaddi” derives from the Sanskrit word “swasti” and its meaning is a combination of the words: prosperity, luck, security, glory, and good.”

  101. Mr.Vito says:

    “Mr. Vito, have you attempted to consider what it might symbolize and what the visceral reaction might be for a certain group of people?”

    Funny. Have you?

  102. Usually i’m the one being rough on Corey, Vito and Corey should be happy about the Cubs being relevant so far this year no? Where’s the unity?

  103. soccer guru says:

    So no, the swastika is not going away, for billions.

  104. Bobby says:

    Holy Jesus, Democrats are down in every single race. ALG is down 5 in her race against an unknown.

  105. Corey says:

    We aren’t in Asia. Nobody in the United States will or should have to pass by a government building and see a swastika flag, and they should not have to see a Confederate flag either.

    I know Mr. Vito has stated before that he is a Democrat, so I will take him at his word on that. They are the party of that flag historically after all. I just cannot understand the argument as to why the Stars and Bars should not be seen as racist.

    If the GOP does not understand this issue, we are not going to win many elections and it’s hard to say how we would deserve to.

  106. @106 and again this is from a PPP poll

  107. ” I just cannot understand the argument as to why the Stars and Bars should not be seen as racist.”

    I don’t understand why people like Bitter hate FL and think only certain cities deserve hockey teams, I don’t understand why someone like you thinks Jay Cutler is worth the 100+ million he’s being paid, etc Doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to feel differently from me. To some it’s about History/Heritage/Rebel spirit/etc. I can see why some are offended by it just as much as why some take pride in it. Just as I can support Haley’s decision while hating what i’m seeing done right now to pressure businesses that carry it.

  108. soccer guru says:

    What quick change of sun=bject.

    First it was, “the swastika is a thing of the past”.

    when presented with contrary evidence, it has become “it should not be on government building”

    Moving goalposts much?

    And the moron Bitter is back with his non-sequiter.

    And, btw, the swastika is alive in the States, not just in SE ASis.

    Go to any Hindu or Buddhist temple in the country.

  109. Walt says:

    DRUDGE

    28% of HS students (I guess at that
    one SF high school) say they are LGBTQ.

    What does Q stand for?

  110. lisab says:

    “We aren’t in Asia. Nobody in the United States will or should have to pass by a government building and see a swastika flag,”

    no one is suggesting to raise a buddhist swastika flag on a government building

    however, don’t go to asia and expect not to see it

  111. On the record, I’m not in any way affiliated with SG whatever times we may find ourselves in agreement during the rare times we do.

  112. Mr.Vito says:

    “…argument as to why the Stars and Bars should not be seen as racist.”

    That flag is not the ‘stars and bars’… Why do I care less about this than Corey but still know so much more about it?

  113. “Why do I care less about this than Corey but still know so much more about it?”

    It’s a Corey thing. I care little for Chicago sports until he starts talking about how elite Jay Cutler is or how awesome Derrick Rose is.

  114. PPP’s standing is pretty low if a big finding like that for a race we’ve seen nothing about as of late doesn’t replace the main topic being the flag debate

  115. Mr.Vito says:

    *Less than Corey*

  116. Corey says:

    I have no real intention of going to Asia (what would I eat?), but if I did, I do not think I would see a Nazi flag there.

    The flags that were used by the Confederacy and that some people think that black people (or anyone else who might dislike) should just look the other way or get over all have the same origin of circa 1861 and symbolized the desire to have human beings be slaves.

    So, it is different than Nazis taking some ancient and to Americans obscure symbol and changing the way it is viewed.

    The Confederacy has always stood for the same thng. The Civil War is long over and the right side won. We have come a very long way as a country. The flags of the losing side should be relegated to history.

  117. Mr.Vito says:

    Oh, never mind… I got the word less in there.

  118. Corey says:

    The flag in South Carolina that they are all talking about has Stars and Bars. We know what it symbolizes.

    If somebody wants a symbol of pride or heritage, they should honor the Stars and Stripes.

  119. “I have no real intention of going to Asia (what would I eat?)”

    No taste in what makes a good QB or food

    “The Confederacy has always stood for the same thng.”

    The flag hasn’t to some

  120. Barrett - HHR Senator says:

    LisaB, your post in #112 doesn’t really add anything of importance to the conversation.

    We aren’t talking about Asia or Bhuddism.

  121. lisab says:

    “I do not think I would see a Nazi flag there.”

    you would see it all over the place

    they do not even slightly aware of ww2

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ARAB_enUS493US559&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=705&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=buddhist+temple++swastika&oq=buddhist+temple++swastika&gs_l=img.3…3818.8374.0.8810.9.9.0.0.0.0.107.886.6j3.9.0….0…1c.1.64.img..9.0.0.JUeceuMIvj4

  122. Mr.Vito says:

    &”The flag in South Carolina that they are all talking about has Stars and Bars. We know what it symbolizes.”

    So does the Grand old Flag.

  123. Corey says:

    Those are not Nazi flags. Those buildings almost certainly pre-date Hitler’s birth.

    It’s not the same thing as a discussion of the Confederate flag.

    That does not mean that I would not have an unavoidable engrained reaction upon seeing the symbol.

    Just like some liberals do upon seeing a crucifix.

  124. So many reminders why I ended up turning on Corey like I did

  125. Mr.Vito says:

    And to many Americans, the Grand old Flag is also a symbol of oppression, slavery, and murder…

  126. lisab says:

    “That does not mean that I would not have an unavoidable engrained reaction upon seeing the symbol.”

    it is very jarring, especially the first time you come across it

  127. Corey says:

    Then they can leave. It’s the official flag of the country and they have no legitimate reason to feel that way. People certainly have a legitimate reason to feel that way about the Confederacy. Slavery was actually an evil thing.

    It’s an extreme and pointless comparison.

  128. Mr.Vito says:

    “it is very jarring, especially the first time you come across it”

    I heard it makes babies cry.

  129. It’s too easy to get this guy on a tantrum

  130. lisab says:

    “I certainly know how I feel when I see a swastika.”

    i think the point is many white southerners

    do not have the feelings of revulsion for the “stars and bars” that blacks would

    they have been brought up to think of it as a “good symbol”

    so naturally they are upset with being forced to take it down

  131. Mr.Vito says:

    “Then they can leave.”

    but they won’t… So?

  132. Corey says:

    Well, that’s obvious lisa.

    And if it’s not at the Statehouse they will have to find a way to get over it.

    Nobody is suggesting they can not have that flag at their house or even display it if they choose to. It would be morally wrong if they did though.

  133. Mr.Vito says:

    “It’s the official flag of the country and they have no legitimate reason to feel that way.”

    Wow… People have no legitimate reason? What if they forced into concentration camps or something?

    “People certainly have a legitimate reason to feel that way about the Confederacy. Slavery was actually an evil thing.”

    Endorsed by the Grand old Flag for a hundred years, and segregaration for hundred thereafter.

  134. “It would be morally wrong if they did though.”

    Oh F*ck off you sanctimonious prick. I think it’s morally wrong to be a coward and only show up after good news to post about your favorite Sports teams, doesn’t stop you from doing it.

  135. Corey says:

    And then made “more perfect” through our system of democracy.

    The Confederacy did not attempt to redeem itself. They wanted to break up the Union and keep people enslaved.

  136. Mr.Vito says:

    My Jewish friend isn’t afraid of swastikas, but maybe he isn’t Jewish enough.

  137. Why are you talking about Civil War discussions. The subject was what the flag means to some.

  138. Corey says:

    Nobody said anything about “afraid.”

  139. Mr.Vito says:

    “The Confederacy did not attempt to redeem itself. They wanted to break up the Union and keep people enslaved.”

    Well, you told them to leave.

  140. Mr.Vito says:

    I’m sure they would have gotten it right in a hundred years.

  141. Corey says:

    They can leave, the land has to stay.

  142. Corey says:

    142. That’s what we have been saying as Cubs fans.

  143. lisab says:

    ” It would be morally wrong if they did though.”

    because … someone else has strong negative feelings about a symbol?

    don’t mistake me, i would take the flag down

    but it is a mistake to think that other people are “immoral” because they do not have the same beliefs as you

  144. Mr.Vito says:

    “They can leave, the land has to stay.”

    Makes sense… That’s what the Grand old Flag did to the Natives, too.

  145. Corey says:

    Perhaps there is a semantic distinction between “immoral” and “morally wrong.”

    I do believe that what the flag represents is immoral and it would be wrong to display it. I think people in America have the right to be wrong though.

    I would be surprised if I was the only one here who believed as I do. Surprising that Mr. Bitterlaw has made himself so scare after all his admonishments of how he is never gone and will never leave.

  146. “That’s what we have been saying as Cubs fans.”

    Different, the Cubs dared to anger a guy with access to voodoo or whatever it was that Goat’s owner did in revenge.

  147. Corey says:

    I guess I finally understand my Mr. Vito is a Democrat.

  148. Corey says:

    why*

  149. @149 WTF? I’m as GOP as it gets and I get where Vito is coming from

  150. Mr.Vito says:

    “I would be surprised if I was the only one here who believed as I do. Surprising that Mr. Bitterlaw has made himself so scare after all his admonishments of how he is never gone and will never leave.”

    You just got called out, Mr. Bitter. By the champion of ‘cut and run’… Well second to Smokin Jay.

  151. This happens with Corey almost everytime. Starts posting, gets worked up over something (as we all do honestly), throws tantrum when others don’t agree with him. Finally it all ends in this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz-jSkDgBBg

  152. Mr.Vito says:

    That’s okay, Author… Corey either doesn’t like or can’t follow the Socratic method.

  153. @155 I truly (no sucking up intended) always admire the way you could use that to the effect you do

  154. Corey says:

    Mr. Vito, I sense that much of what you have been typing here today has been tongue in cheek (a lisab speciality), but in all seriousness, what would you say to a black person about the flag.

    Do you really think South Carolina should leave it up?

    If not, then we don’t disagree.

  155. lisab says:

    “I do believe that what the flag represents is immoral and it would be wrong to display it. ”

    i would agree that it would be wrong for you to display the flag — because you feel it represents slavery, rebellion, traitors etc.

    they don’t feel that way.

    so rather than being a northerner accusing them of being immoral

    it might be better to let them work it out

  156. Corey says:

    Well, they can do what they want. I can also say what I believe. I also care very much about the Republican Party and what it should stand for.

    South Carolina is deciding that the flag should come down, as it is appropriate for them to do, and I can say that I think it is the right thing.

  157. Wes says:

    This is hilarious to read.

  158. Cash Cow TM says:

    Take flag down

    Flag down Kate.

  159. Mr.Vito says:

    Tongue-and-cheek? Moi?

    The Capitol took down the flag years ago. If there is a war memorial on site displaying the flag, then I do not personally have a problem with it. If compromise is necessary, I would suggest it should be lowered to half staff permanently with an American flag and raised next to it to remind people that southerners can both have the right to mourn their dead and be Americans.

    What would I say to a black person about the flag? That they can be offended if they want to be, but most of them I know aren’t afraid of it, weren’t slaves, and won’t let a symbol have power over them.

  160. lisab says:

    “I can say that I think it is the right thing.”

    sure, and as it happens i would agree it should be taken down

    which is different than calling white southern republicans “immoral” for not having the same beliefs about the flag as you do

    as Bitterlaw might say, “southern whites can believe the flag is a symbol of courage and valor and southern blacks can believe the flag is a symbol of racism and slavery … both can be true”

  161. Corey says:

    And if southern whites and southern blacks disagree, given the history, the white people should get over it.

  162. Mr.Vito says:

    I wouldn’t care if someone displayed the ISIS flag either…

    Let the Mf’ers identify themselves.

  163. Corey says:

    And for the record, I am not calling for the execution of the entire Duggar Family.

  164. Mr.Vito says:

    And if Northerners and Southerners disagree, given the history, Northerners should get over it.

  165. Mr.Vito says:

    I have… Can you?

  166. Corey says:

    If this is truly what you believe Vito, you have the right to believe it, but I also think that you are not taking into account what it would mean for a black person to have to see the Confederate flag at a Statehouse or a Nazi flag in any context for a Jewish person. That does not mean you are a bad person, it just means that you do not have that background.

    I don’t think it makes me a liberal to suggest that such a context should matter.

  167. Since Corey’s tantrum seems to be ending, anyone else wanna chime in about that conventional wisdom flipping PPP poll?

  168. Corey says:

    I don’t see any conflict between Northerners and Southerners. I believe the overwhelming majority of Southerners are proud to be part of the United States and honor “Old Glory.”

    For African-Americans though, I just do think I could tell them that they have to just get over it in regards to the flag of slavery. White people who like the flag may have to give a bit (in regards to the public sphere), but I think the harm that might cause them is miniscule compared to the harm that the flag causes others, especially after what happened last week.

  169. @171

    Well I’m not bothered by the Confederate Flag but can see why a Black person would be. The swastika does bother me even though I know in some cultures it’s meant as something else. I can understand their view as well. I’m neither White, born of the North or South, Black, Jewish, or Asian and I can understand where everyone else is coming from on all those things.

  170. where everyone else = where all of those groups*

  171. lisab says:

    “White people who like the flag may have to give a bit (in regards to the public sphere), but I think the harm that might cause them is miniscule compared to the harm that the flag causes others”

    i would agree

    and still it is a mistake to call them “immoral” for having different beliefs about that flag

  172. Corey says:

    “My ancestors fought on the wrong side of American history.I don’t believe their service,however distinguished,needs to be commemorated in a way that offends,that deeply hurts,people whose ancestors were once denied their freedom by my ancestors.”.

    John McCain- 2000

  173. lisab says:

    funny look by chris rock on the confederate flag

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ8_49BRSiw

  174. Corey says:

    lisa, I did not say anything about beliefs, I said displaying a Rebel flag publicly would be morally wrong.

    That’s no different than your view on displays of Christianity on private property, even though I would obviously disagree with you on that.

  175. Cash Cow TM says:

    Take flag down

    Kate, flog Dawn.

    golf wad taken

  176. lisab says:

    “That’s no different than your view on displays of Christianity on private property”

    i think christians should be able to display christian symbols on private property — assuming it is not covered with 24 hr strobe lights that keep other homeowners from enjoying their property

  177. W. PA Observer says:

    160. +1.

  178. NT, FINALLY we can talk about that PPP poll

  179. lisab says:

    “I did not say anything about beliefs, I said displaying a Rebel flag publicly would be morally wrong.”

    how is it morally wrong for someone who does not think it is an evil flag to display it publicly?

  180. Corey says:

    You would have to take that up with G-d.

    He’s the final authority on that. I am just telling you what I believe.

  181. lisab says:

    “He’s the final authority on that. I am just telling you what I believe.”

    then taking that to its logical conclusion

    you logically must think buddhists are immoral for offending you with their swastikas

    yet they have no such intent or anywhere near the same beliefs as you regarding that symbol

    i submit god disagrees with you

  182. Corey says:

    I don’t think I know any Buddhists. I have never seen swastika flag or a Nazi flag outside anybody’s home though. If I did, it would be morally wrong, even if legal under our wonderful free American society.

    One memory I do have is being about five or six at a restaurant with my family and some guy in a full Nazi uniform came in. I really hope he was on break from making a movie or something.

  183. Corey says:

    Actually, I do know Buddhists. I have never seen them with a swastika though.