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Moore Leads By 8% in AL, Hogan Leads Four Dems in MD

JMC Analytics has come out with their new poll for the US Senate race in Alabama and it shows Roy Moore with an 8% lead over Doug Jones.

US SENATE – ALABAMA (JMC)
Roy Moore (R) 48%
Doug Jones (D) 40%

This poll was done September 30-October 1 among likely voters. For comparison, JMC’s final primary runoff poll showed Moore beating Luther Strange by 8%, very close to the 9.2% he eventually won by. meanwhile, in my home state of Maryland, Larry Hogan is ahead of a gaggle of Democrats but below 50% in a new poll from Mason-Dixon.

GOVERNOR – MARYLAND (Mason-Dixon)
Larry Hogan (R-inc) 46%
Rushern Baker (D) 39%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 49%
Ben Jealous (D) 33%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 48%
Kevin Kamenetz (D) 35%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 49%
Richard Madaleno (D) 30%

This poll was done September 27-30 among 625 registered voters.

Posted by Dave at 11:48 am
Filed under: General | Comments (474)

474 Responses to “Moore Leads By 8% in AL, Hogan Leads Four Dems in MD”

  1. Mr.Vito says:

    Gaggle.

  2. GPO says:

    Wes or anyone have any color on Montana and ND senate races

  3. GPO says:

    OK, let me explain this again: We’re celebs. We’re wiser & more empathetic than you. We are famous. Please take our opinions more seriously.

    Pat Sajak

  4. Mr.Vito says:

    Above is not suitable for work.

  5. janz says:

    #$ That was hard to watch, and made much harder by the hypocrisy of the actors, in those violent scenes, saying “enough” to violence. They should start with themselves and the films they chose to make and profit by.

  6. NYCmike says:

    Robbie,

    Have any other cabinet members called Trump any names today, yesterday, or in the past whatsoever?

    Please let us know.

    It is YUGE! news, and must be shared (and LIKED, if on Facebook).

  7. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Guns don’t kill people (59 and counting in Vegas with hundreds injured).

    Hollywood liberals making movies kill people.

    Jan bats another one out of the park.

    In her case, trailer park since that’s where she lives.

  8. NYCmike says:

    Emails and “email alerts” now circulating videos of 2nd (and 3rd) shooters in Vegas.

    Anecdotal stories from friends in NYC that have seen unprecedented levels of security at Penn Station and surrounding areas.

  9. Chicon says:

    9. Were they behind the grassy knoll?

  10. Bitterlaw says:

    Was Alex Jones the other shooter?

  11. lisab says:

    Of course, I have been having some suicidal thoughts lately so polls for the future get less and less compelling.
    ——————————————–
    ummmmmmmmmmm … have you told your wife this?
    ——————-
    Lisab – Yes. It upset her so I stopped mentioning it.
    ———————————-

    Bitterlaw,

    please call your doctor asap. this is not normal, and is a sign of incorrect medication levels.

    IT IS VERY COMMON AMONG DIABETICS

    your medication level, i.e. insulin level, may have changed due to changes in your life, weight changes, stress changes, hormonal balance etc.

    please call your doctor today.

  12. Chicon says:

    Lisab is correct, Bitter. Call.

  13. Bitterlaw says:

    No thanks. My problems can’t be fixed. Don’t worry. I’m not going anywhere.

    I do give you credit. I switched to another type of insulin a month ago. However, the problems have not changed and will never change. I’m not a risk to anybody.

  14. Waingro says:

    Boom.

    Scott Wong?Verified account @scottwongDC

    NEWS: Former @RepublicanStudy Chair @RepBillFlores (R-Texas) calls for ban on bump stocks in wake of Las Vegas shooting. Flores is gun owner

  15. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    A retired male U.S. Marine Captain is suing a bar in San Diego for not letting him in for a “ladies night” event.

    Here is what is said on the advertisement.

    “Bring friends—the more the merrier 🙂
    Female-identifying, non-binary folks are welcome. Sorry, guys!”

  16. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    15. Bump stocks should be banned. It is illegal, except under special circumstances, to have an automatic weapon. A device that turns a weapon into an automatic weapon should be declared illegal. Trump could do it by executive order.

    I am a strong 2nd Amendment advocate, but having these devices being available for sale is unacceptable.

  17. Chicon says:

    17 – agree on all counts.

  18. Trump says:

    Bitterlaw says:

    “Trump said that Kasich was “my candidate” even though he was not. I voted for Kasich as a protest against Donald Trump. In the General Election, I was compelled to vote for Trump to stop Hillary. That did not make Trump “my candidate.”

    You vote for somebody, he’s “your candidate”.

    Moron.

    Life is not an opt-out. Grow up, be responsible for your actions, dolt.

  19. Waingro says:

    #17, 100% agreed.

    And here we actually have nexus of its use to this latest madman’s mass shooting.

    Unlike the suggestions from greedy liberal gun grabbers, who want to use this tragedy as an excuse to institute “gun control” legislation that has nothing to do with what occurred.

  20. Phil says:

    Agree with San Diego. I too am a big 2nd Amendment guy. Bump Stocks should be banned. You are turning a legal semi automatic weapon into an illegal automatic weapon. It is an absolute no brainer. The NRA if they were smart would not oppose a ban.

    Who exactly needs to turn a weapon from semi automatic to automatic? The answer is no one.

  21. lisab says:

    No thanks. My problems can’t be fixed. Don’t worry. I’m not going anywhere.
    ———————————
    that is good to hear

    and

    still, it is NOT a normal side-effect, although it is a common side-effect

    your doctor should be able to eliminate that problem

  22. lisab says:

    in other words

    you do not have to live with these thoughts, it is caused by too much or too little insulin

  23. Bitterlaw says:

    Who did you vote for, Trump Guru?

  24. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Spend a lot of time a Mesquite, Nevada. I frequent the Starbucks that they interviewed the barista about the shooter, and also am familiar with the gun shop where the shooter bought three guns. The owners are great people; they teach several gun-related safety/training classes each month (they specialize in guitars as well).

    As someone on the board said, there is an elephant in the room here regarding motive, and no one yet has figured it out.

  25. lisab says:

    and

    if your wife told you she was having such thoughts and you knew it was just from her medication being at the wrong dosage

    you would immediately see how nuts it is to suffer through such symptoms — because they could get worse

  26. Chicon says:

    Lisa, Bitter is gonna hang around until the Eagles win a Super Bowl. So, he could live to be as old as Walt….

  27. Bitterlaw says:

    My wife is not Irish. Gloomy thoughts would be unusual with her.

  28. DW says:

    Bitter,

    Here is my recommendation to remedy your condition.

    http://www.irish-folk-songs.com/down-by-the-glenside-lyrics-and-guitar-chords.html

    Listen to the Irish folk song linked here until you feel better.

    Thanks. No charge.

  29. lisab says:

    it is just frustrating that patients, particularly men, decide to tough it out and suffer needlessly by taking the wrong dosages

    insulin is a no-brainer, relief is just changing the dosage.

    my typical traumatized teen is on a laundry list of meds, sometimes very powerful anti-psychotics for schizophrenia and anti-depressants yada yada yada

    figuring out which drug or drug combo is making them freak out is a guessing game. literally there are times when we have had to wean teens off of a dozen or so meds to start from scratch

    so they have to be hospitalized in a psych ward until they figure out the right cocktail

  30. lisab says:

    then of course they are also going through puberty so their hormones are freaking out too and they need to be on birth control pills in addition to everything else

  31. Trump says:

    “Bitterlaw says:
    October 4, 2017 at 3:24 pm

    Who did you vote for, Trump Guru?”

    Mentioned more than a month ago.

    Trump in primary, Trump in general.

  32. NYCmike says:

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/04/dear-jimmy-kimmel-stay-gun-debate-cant-honest/

    -I am not sure if Jimmy Fallon got political at all the first night, but last night he had on Miley Cyrus with Adam Sandler, and they were great, and all they did was sing, instead of lecturing.

  33. Mr.Vito says:

    “As someone on the board said, there is an elephant in the room here regarding motive, and no one yet has figured it out.”

    He switched insulin and had suicidal thoughts, but refused to see a doctor.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnAQlesjvKQ

  34. Jonesy says:

    Rumor is that Robert Iger, CEO of Disney/Espn/ABC, told Kimmel to go left to compete with Colbert.

    Reported today, that Iger told Espn not to fire BLM activist and Espn anchor, Jamele Hill.

    Iger wants to run for POTUS in 2020 as a DEM, but is a sleazebag

  35. Jonesy says:

    35. Granted that Murphy is a weasel Wes, but at least he is not a rapist like Bill Clinton

  36. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab – Insulin regulates blood sugar levels. The one type lasts all day. The other is for when sugar goes too high. The dosage of the second type is different every time. I take up to 4 shots a day of the second type. I have done that for decades.

    As for men “touching it out,” that is what we are supposed to do. Otherwise, we are weak. Not my style. Better to suffer than be weak.

  37. Jonesy says:

    Trump met with Las Vegas police and First Responders.

    Obama would have met Jay Z and Beyonce at the Bellagio VIP Lounge

  38. Mr.Vito says:

    “As for men “touching it out,” that is what we are supposed to do.”

    Gay.

  39. NYCmike says:

    Probably the same reason why a married man would sleep with another woman….or have children out of wedlock….

  40. Mr.Vito says:

    “Mikey, why do putatively anti-choice Congressmen try to pressure their mistresses into getting abortions?”

    Probably similar to the reason putatively ‘pro-choice’ people pressure women into having them…

  41. Jonesy says:

    Rumors that Tim Murphy will resign tonight. With all the modern snooping Technology, and the target on any GOP Rep’s back to begin with..

    And they still think they can hide an affair. Dumbasses

  42. Jonesy says:

    Wes makes a good point. Murphy is the second public pro life GOP Rep to request his mistress get an abortion.
    Look at Justice Roberts, pretends to be a conservative Catholic, then upholds pro abortion Obamacare.

  43. Chicon says:

    Do as I say, not as I do…..

  44. Wes says:

    No one should be pressuring anyone into having an abortion. It’s a right to CHOOSE for a reason. The anti-choice crowd is nominally opposed to abortions though. Actually encouraging them is a bit hypocritical, I would say.

  45. Bitterlaw says:

    Toughing it out. Autocorrect sucks.

  46. Wes says:

    Scott Desjarlais is still in Congress despite years of stories about his odious practices with his girlfriends. I don’t recall Bill Clinton’s ever trying to pressure a woman into an abortion. Clinton was so pro choice he even supported PBA. That is one procedure I find to be particularly abominable.

  47. Mr.Vito says:

    I have known many more pro-choice people who have pressured someone to have an abortion, or not provided information/support regarding the other ‘choice’.

    Maybe I will start calling them anti-life to show how woke I am…

  48. Bitterlaw says:

    I finally watched Blade Runner for the first time. Very good but very 80s. It was interesting to see that in 1982, the story had very advanced robots and pretty crappy TVs.

    Blade Runner 2049 is getting good reviews. Maybe I will see it.

  49. Wes says:

    They were just as wrong in their actions as Murphy and Desjarlais, Vito.

  50. Wes says:

    Blade Runndr deviated so significantly from the dource book K. W. Jeter–a fan of both book and film–wrote a series of books trying mightily to reconcile the two.

  51. Jonesy says:

    I like Grassley, but cannot understand why it takes so fricking long to confirm Judges. Does he have to battle to get floor votes?

    10 nominees that have already cleared the Committee and no Blue slips, and today they are voting on ambassadors to small countries in Africa?

  52. Wes says:

    Ultimately, Vito, it should be the woman’s choice. She should be able to make an informed decision, but no one should try to pressure her into not having one–or having one.

  53. Jonesy says:

    Blade runner was great. Not a fan Ryan Gosling though for the sequel

  54. Jonesy says:

    55. And the government should not pay for it

  55. Wes says:

    That should be a given, Jonesy. The government shouldn’t be paying for abortions ever.

  56. Bitterlaw says:

    Wes – I knew you would have some solid Blade Runner knowledge.

  57. Jonesy says:

    Senate did confirm a Deputy for Health Human services today, especially with Price gone, could be important.

    also a new member for the Federal Reserve board. But no Judges

  58. Jonesy says:

    Bitter, it came out soon after Raiders of the Lost Ark, which to me was the best action movie of all time.

  59. Bitterlaw says:

    I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark. The sequels were mixed. Temple of Doom sucked. Last Crusade and Crystal Skull were pretty good but not as good as the original.

  60. Bitterlaw says:

    I’m 49. There was no way my parents would let me see Blade Runner when I was 14. I just never bothered to see it until now.

  61. Jonesy says:

    62. Agreed.

  62. Wes says:

    Crystal Skull was beyond godawful. Raiders was near perfect. Temple of Doom was slightly subpar. Last Crusade was excellent.

  63. Bitterlaw says:

    I rated Crystal Skull higher than I should because of the nostalgia factor in going back to the characters.

  64. Wes says:

    I give credit to Harrison Ford for never abandoning the SF and fantasy franchises that spawned his career even after decades.

  65. Bitterlaw says:

    Ford is a solid actor. He was great in Patriot Games and Witness. He probably made the franchise movies for fun and the payday but he can act. He was also good in Presumed Innocent.

  66. Phil says:

    Why is Tillerson still employed if he called the POTUS a moron in front of members of the National Security Council?

    Can’t believe he would be if it had actually happened.

  67. NYCmike says:

    He was good in Fugitive as well.

  68. NYCmike says:

    Here is Tillerson driving……

  69. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Given Trump’s behavior “quirks,” can understand those around Trump occasionally calling a “moron.” I call him that regularly. Trump needs people around him that call him that from time to time.

  70. Mr.Vito says:

    The undie-secretary of the bureau says it went down like this…

    “Mr. Tillerson, have you seen what’s in the news today?”

    Tillerson: “I would guess more on Trump.”

  71. Tina says:

    Phil, he never said it.

    Tillerson would not do that.

    Unnamed sources.

    Lol

  72. Trump says:

    As I said when that cretin Robbie piped up.

    Fake news.

    Bread and butter for the cretin.

  73. Mr.Vito says:

    More like heroin…

  74. Trump says:

    Screw Tillerson. Should have never even hired that old crack ass. Fire him and bring in a loyalist.

    Cruisin’ to reelection

  75. Phil says:

    Anyone notice who hasn’t uttered a peep in the last nine or ten days?

    That’s right – our friend little rocket man.

    My guess is the Chinese signaled this guy that he might want to tone it down. “this guy isn’t Obama”

    We’ll see.

  76. Trump says:

    78 is not me.

    Stealing handles is not cool, bro.

  77. Trump John says:

    This man has endured so much. So much hatred, so much vile evilness, accusations and attacks on him and his entire family, Never before has a president been handed with such a full plate and yet he makes US, the PEOPLE, first and foremost. Thank You Mr. President. #MAGA

  78. Trump Davis says:

    Keep up the good work Mr President! We the people have your back and see right through the haters and fake news. Those of us who voted for you, will proudly do so again!
    #MAGA
    #2020

  79. Trump says:

    Haven’t paid attention lately, but how’s the nfl protests going?

    Are they kneeling this week? Or linking arms? Or holding each others’s dicks?

  80. Trump John says:

    His heartfelt speech actually brought me to tears today because he is being treated so badly. As for the tweeting it’s getting everyone’s attention isn’t it? I think that’s the point.. I will vote for him in 2020. Any president who puts GOD first before anything has my vote. #MAGA #2020

  81. Tina says:

    Phil, they are targeting tillerson because his comments on foreign aid.

    They equals gop-e and never trumpers.

  82. Trump says:

    Plus tillerson is not filling many open posts.

  83. Tina says:

    Mueller has taken control over the investigation intomthe fake dossier.

    I would think a separate prosecutor is needed here. Mueller cannot credibly investigate his friend comedy.

    Who paid for the dossier is a critical question,

  84. Tina says:

    If the dossier was generated in house by the fbi, mueller could not credibly investigste.

  85. lisab says:

    As for men “touching it out,” that is what we are supposed to do. Otherwise, we are weak. Not my style. Better to suffer than be weak.
    —————————————–

    that is just wrong

    suicidal thoughts are NOT normal.

    there is ample evidence that incorrect insulin levels cause suicidal thoughts. there are many papers on it.

    tell your wife and call your doctor.

  86. lisab says:

    Autocorrect sucks.
    ———————–

    gay

  87. Bitterlaw says:

    No. I live with diabetes. You google it. My blood sugar is under better control in the last month.

    I have problems that can never be fixed. No medication and no therapy can change those things. They can only be endured.

  88. lisab says:

    I have known many more pro-choice people who have pressured someone to have an abortion
    ———————————————

    if someone is running on a pro-family “traditional values” platform and they want someone to have an abortion

    that is qualitatively different than someone who is running on a “hey abortion is no big deal” platform wanting someone to get an abortion

  89. lisab says:

    I have problems that can never be fixed. No medication and no therapy can change those things.
    —————————————-

    yes you are stuck with diabetes, and it is ALSO well documented that a small dosage issue can cause suicidal thoughts

    as i wrote above, if you saw your wife suffering this way you would probably be on the phone to the doctor threatening his life for messing up your wife’s dosage.

    ask anyone you trust in your life, if it is in any way normal to have suicidal thoughts

    (except when forced to binge watch kardashian videos or listen to robbie talk about politics)

  90. Phil says:

    Michael Moore has come up with a tremendous solution to gun violence.

    Yep.

    -Since 90 percent of gun violence is committed by men, males cannot own a firearm unless they obtain a waiver from their wife, ex wife, or current girlfriend. This will cut down on domestic violence.

    -semi automatic guns banned

    -cannot keep firearm in your home. Must keep stored in a government approved storage facility.

    -guns must use finger print technology to prevent pulling the trigger without a finger print match with the owner.

    I admire Michael Moore for coming out in a public way and saying what would be every liberal’s wet dream.

  91. Phil says:

    ….also, if spoons would have been banned Michael Moore would not be obese.

  92. lisab says:

    Harrison Ford for never abandoning the SF and fantasy franchises that spawned his career even after decades.
    ————————–

    harrison ford hated blade runner for years, it was only when it became a cult classic that he warmed to it

  93. lisab says:

    -semi automatic guns banned
    ——————————————–

    ummmmmmmmm … may pistols are semi automatic if i am not mistaken

    ———————————————

    -cannot keep firearm in your home. Must keep stored in a government approved storage facility.

    —————————————

    that kind of negates the whole self defense thing doesn’t it?

  94. Phil says:

    Naw, Lisa. You simply ask the intruder to hold off while you make a quick trip to the storage facility.

  95. lisab says:

    You simply ask the intruder to hold off while you make a quick trip to the storage facility.
    —————————————–

    18 year old widow kills intruder coming through door
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp5gAY6aIjA

  96. Cash Cow TM says:

    DRUDGE

    Jealous chimp ‘Romeo’ pummels zookeeper for ‘flirting’ with partner ‘Juliet’…

  97. Mr.Vito says:

    …who is running on a “hey abortion is no big deal” platform wanting someone to get an abortion”

    You mean “the women should choose, stay out of my uter.us, me and my doctor” platform…

    No quantitative difference… in fact the traditional value person actually has a reason for trying to cover up the adultery. The other has none whatsoever.

  98. Mr.Vito says:

    “….also, if spoons would have been banned Michael Moore would not be obese.”

    doubtful

  99. Mr.Vito says:

    The home defense argument should be secondary if you believe the 2nd amendment is for protection from tyranny. The argument against semi-auto weapons is much stronger against hunting or fending off a couple intruders.

    I say this as someone who is no fan of guns…

  100. Trump says:

    ” Angry GOP donors close their wallets

    ‘I’m sick and tired of nothing happening,’ one contributor says of the party’s legislative failures.”

    Way to go, Mitch. Blow $30m on tilting windmills in Alabama.

  101. Trump says:

    “Party officials are so alarmed that North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis, who oversees fundraising for the National Republican Senatorial Committee, told his colleagues at a recent conference meeting that donations had fallen off a cliff after the Obamacare flop. The committee’s haul plummeted to just $2 million in July and August, less than half of what it raised in June.”

  102. Trump says:

    “When you’re in a business and you tell your stakeholders you’re going to build a building or something, you have to follow through,” said Houston-based energy executive Dan Eberhart. “I can’t borrow money to build a building and then not follow through, which is what these guys are doing.”

  103. Trump says:

    And if large donors are alarming, wait till you hear about the fall off in small donor contributions.

  104. Trump says:

    “Tillerson: Some In Washington “Try To Sow Dissention To Advance Their Own Agendas”

    How does Tillerson know the lying cretin Robbie?

  105. NYCmike says:

    Maybe Tillis should say something to McCain……oh no, you can’t do that, he is a war hero! He can’t be spoken ill of!

  106. DW says:

    My prediction for the baseball playoffs, now that the wild-card games are out of the way…speaking of those games, if you have not seen the highlights of the Arizona / Colorado game, you should Arizona’s Archie Bradley hit the first post-season triple by a relief pitcher in MLB history. It also scored two runs in what was a gutsy call by the manager to send him to the plate with two runners on and a one-run lead. Adding to the drama, Bradley gave those two runs right back in the next inning. Post-season baseball is quite good–its a shame they cannot play like this all year.

    But back to my predictions:

    1. Astros knock out the Red Sox.
    2. Indians knock out the Yankees.

    3. Cubs knock out the Nats
    4. D’Backs knock out the Dodgers

    ALCS:

    Indians outlast the Astros in 7 games.

    NLCS:

    D’Backs upset the Cubs in 6 games.

    WS:

    Indians knock out the D’Backs in 5 games.

  107. Mr.Vito says:

    Have they said whether any suppressors were used in the shooting?

  108. Mr.Vito says:

    Because they sound more like unsuppressed AR-15 fire… and I don’t see any in the hotel room pictures.

  109. Bitterlaw says:

    Poor NYC. Still pushing the lie that I said McCain can’t be criticized. Anybody can be criticized. What I said is that I took exception to people who called him a traitor or questioned his patriotism for his votes. We have been over this many times. We will go over it again. And again. And again.

    I do not like all of his votes but I prefer having him in office to a rubber stamp who never served the country. That is my view. Nobody has to agree. I would appreciate if the lies and distortions about what I said would stop but this is HHR. People can lie and distort all day.

  110. Bitterlaw says:

    GPO – I only watch games on ESPN. I do not wat h their commentary and update shows. Their hosts could read from Das Kapital or wear BLM shirts for all I care. If it is the only place to see a game, I am going to see it.

    Separation of Sports and State!

  111. GPO says:

    Its amazing what they became Bitter- I used to work out in the mornings and have ESPN on in the background. It really became glaring when Michael Sam was trying out after getting drafted late or undrafted . The coverage was beyond ridiculous. I haven’t put it on since except for a rare game I’m dying to watch.

    I thought this nailed it

    https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/09/30/lol-espn-zinger-spotted-at-college-gameday-needs-to-be-on-a-billboard/

  112. Bitterlaw says:

    GPO – Your first mistake was working out. Just drink soda. Breakfast of champions.

  113. Bitterlaw says:

    I have no interest in Fox Sports or FS1 or whatever it is called. Colin Cowherd is a moron.

  114. Cash Cow TM says:

    WV $1.6B ROAD BOND BALLOT INITIATIVE UPDATE

    WV has about 1.6 M registered voters.

    After 11 days of early voting at 55 county court houses, 29,000 people voted early.

    Early voting ended Wed.
    Officials are predicting a 10% total turnout after the same day voting is over on Saturday (election day) at over 1,800 precincts statewide.

    WV’s knucklehead far right Liberty Caucus (a handful of WV legislators) are actively opposing the road bond.

    the WV GOP state executive committee has come out in opposition.

    a number of local county GOP organizations have come out against it.

    Gov. Justice is crisscrossing the state holding town meetings to get support for it. Embarrassing confrontations have taken place between Justice and members of the Liberty Caucus, where both look like fools.

    Many weeks ago, the WV Chamber of Commerce, the WV Business and Industry Council, the WV Coal Association, all the labor groups, the Teachers Association, and others have come out in support of the Road Bond.

    The anticipated interest WV will pay on the bonds is expected to be about 3-3.5% while the road construction inflationary growth rate is about 4-5%, so borrowing the money will actually be less expensive and get the roads fixed much earlier than without the bond’s passage.

    There will be no NEW taxes passed to fund the payment of the road bond, because the legislature already passed DMV and gas tax increases during the legislative session earlier this year to etablish a funding mechanism.

    Many people say they are voting against the bond issue because of dislike of Justice, because Justice owes WV back taxes, distrust of government, and all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with the ballot question.

    Walt says he early voted FOR the Road Bond.
    He has no clue how the vote will be statewide.

    Fricking fustercluck soap opera….

  115. mnw says:

    Haslam OUT in TN Senate race.

  116. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Not a surprise GOP fundraising collapsed. They can’t run from their own lies anymore by blaming the dems when they control every branch of government.

    All these dumb old white guys that have gotten use to getting their way with everything: Exploding the deficit, tax cuts for the rich, and generally screwing over everybody else.

    But now there’s no room to maneuver. They ran against Obamacare which was basically Romneycare which was proposed by the Heritage Foundation, the main thinktank of Conservatives. There was no replacement plan that could replace it that didn’t hurt everyone but the 1% with higher rates and losses in coverage.

    They want to cut taxes on the rich again but reconciliation rules force them to balance the budget instead of bust the deficit.

    The GOP is currently a kleptocracy enabled by religious nutters and mentally-ill buffoons like Tina.

    It is collapsing on itself.

  117. Jonesy says:

    122. Beat me to it. Hello Senator Blackburn. Great News.

    Robbie Sad.

  118. Jonesy says:

    Barret and Larsen, nominees for the 6th and 7th US Court of Appeals, voted out of Committee, and should be confirmed soon.

  119. Jonesy says:

    123. The best thing that could have happened to the GOP. Donors close wallets, McConnell finally has to get a spine.

    McCain, Collins, and Murk will have to help pass bills to keep their Chairs, or get them stripped.

  120. Bitterlaw says:

    Where is lisab? This is why I don’t talk to my wife about stress. She said, “Even if you have problems that you can’t fix, maybe you could talk to somebody about how to accept them and deal with them.” Typical female absurdity.

    When you have a problem, lying to your self about it is a bad idea.

  121. Bitterlaw says:

    I wish that McCain, Collins, and Murk had voted differently on the “sort of repeal but don’t replace Obamcare” bill. However, if that is what their constituents wanted them to do, that is what they should have done.

  122. Mr.Vito says:

    You’ve already accepted you have a problem you can’t fix, and you’ve already chosen how to deal with it (not deal with it).

    Now she just wants you to talk to someone else… maybe get another opinion.

    Big whoop… let your wife care, you big putz.

  123. Trump says:

    When donors bail on “sitting around jerking each other off” GOP, tell them that’s what their voters want.

  124. Trump says:

    GOP lies catching up, is what this is.

  125. Trump says:

    GOP voters gave them Senate, House and the Presidency for them to circle jerk.

  126. Trump says:

    That’s how they got Trump.

    And Roy Moore.

    And will get rid of Flake, Heller, Corker, Wicker.
    and others as they come up renewal.

  127. Trump says:

    “as they come up for renewal”

  128. GPO says:

    anyone fill me in on Montana and ND Senate races in terms of our chances of flipping them.

  129. GPO says:

    I think entirely plausible that makeup of senate changes in 2018 to become more conservative and neuter a bit of McCain Murk and Collins power, but lose the house to make that moot

  130. NYCmike says:

    I don’t understand why people think Republicans will lose the House. The individual members of that chamber voted to repeal Obamacare. They can go to the voters and honestly say “Give us some more time, we need to put more pressure on the Senate! The Democrats were willing to allow Obamacare to implode, we wanted to make changes!”.

  131. NYCmike says:

    Of course, if they try to do an immigration reform bill that is written by Chuckie Schumer, then I will revise my statement.

    If they make Cotton/Perdue the basis for any negotiation, they would have a much better chance to succeed as a party.

  132. GPO says:

    NYCmike says:

    October 5, 2017 at 1:10 pm

    Of course, if they try to do an immigration reform bill that is written by Chuckie Schumer, then I will revise my statement

    Bingo- the trap they hope they fall into.

  133. Chicon says:

    Bitter – 1st thing to address is the strong black and white thinking. Life has grey, mi amigo.

  134. Cash Cow TM says:

    GOP lies

    go piles
    piles go
    log pies
    pie logs
    pie slog
    GOP isle

  135. Bitterlaw says:

    I don’t do well in gray areas. I don’t believe in redemption, either. If you do something wrong or hurt somebody, you own it forever and can never make up for it. You can do better for others and should but you can never be redeemed for what you did earlier.

  136. Cash Cow TM says:

    Say…

    How DO the police handcuff a one armed criminal?

  137. Cash Cow TM says:

    NEWS IN NUMBERS
    57%
    OCTOBER 5, 2017
    Election-related tweets in the 10 days before Donald Trump won the presidential race that were from fake, junk and hyper-partisan sources and targeted at West Virginians. A new study shows those sources also targeted 10 other swing states with misinformation.
    Source: Tribune News Service

    $51,000
    OCTOBER 4, 2017
    Amount Texas state Rep. Dawnna Dukes, who was been charged with corruption, spent on an online psychic.
    Source: The Texas Tribune

    10
    OCTOBER 3, 2017
    States that are expected to run out of funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program by the end of the year. Congress let the program expire this weekend but is hoping to reauthorize it in the coming weeks.
    Source: Governing

    4.2 million
    OCTOBER 2, 2017
    People who have had their driver’s license revoked in just five states because they have court debt. Only four states require officials to determine whether defendants can afford to pay fines before suspending their licenses.
    Source: The Washington Post

    40%
    SEPTEMBER 29, 2017
    Portion of Arizona state lawmakers who are women, which is the highest female representation of any legislature in the country. Nationally, only a quarter of state legislative seats are held by women.
    Source: The Hill

    15 out of 25
    SEPTEMBER 28, 2017
    Major metro areas with the highest black-white segregation that are in the Rust Belt.
    Source: Brookings

    $3 million a day
    SEPTEMBER 27, 2017
    Money Florida lost by suspending tolls to help speed up evacuations and relief efforts for Hurricane Irma. It amounted to more than $45 million.
    Source: CBS Miami

    12 hours
    SEPTEMBER 26, 2017
    Amount of time HealthCare.gov will be shut down on every Sunday but one during open enrollment for maintenance. Critics have accused the Trump administration of intentionally making it harder for the Affordable Care Act to succeed by also shortening the enrollment period and cutting funding for advertising and navigators, people who help others buy ACA insurance.
    Source: Kaiser Health News

    Less than 1 day
    SEPTEMBER 25, 2017
    Time it took Gatorade to settle a lawsuit from California accusing the company of false advertising for implying in an online game that drinking water slows runners down. The game has since been disabled, and the state is now $300,000 richer.
    Source: AP/The Washington Post

    More than 24
    SEPTEMBER 22, 2017
    Illinois state lawmakers who have either resigned this year or said they won’t seek re-election, which is about 15 percent of the General Assembly and an unusually large exodus. Many have cited the state’s political gridlock and increasingly angry citizenry as reasons for moving on.
    Source: AP/The Southern Illinoisan

    36
    SEPTEMBER 21, 2017
    States that would face federal funding cuts in 2026 if the Graham-Cassidy bill to repeal Obamacare becomes law. Almost all of them expanded Medicaid. Meanwhile, most of the states that didn’t expand Medicaid would see an increase in federal funding.
    Source: The New York Times

    7
    SEPTEMBER 20, 2017
    Democratic governors and state attorneys general who are women, which accounts for 20 percent representation. The Democratic Attorneys General Association hopes to increase that number and recently launched “the 1881 Initiative” — named for the first year that a woman ran, unsuccessfully, for state AG — to help.
    Source: The New York Times

  138. NYCmike says:

    “How DO the police handcuff a one armed criminal?”

    -I am trying to find out why they don’t HANDScuff criminals, since most of them have 2.

  139. Bitterlaw says:

    How DO the police handcuff a one armed criminal?

    Did the criminal look like this?

    http://www.infoslotmachine.com/img/one-armed-bandit.jpg

  140. Chicon says:

    142 – a bleak point-of-view. I have a slight libertarian bent, so I believe you’re free to live as you wish. But I wish that you’d choose happiness.

  141. Cash Cow TM says:

    Bitter,

    A ONE-ARMED BANDIT!

    HAR DE HAR, SNORT… 🙂

  142. Cash Cow TM says:

    Bitter,

    It seems you need cheered up, so here is a funny little joke.

    It involves the court system.
    **********************************
    Seems a man and his wife were arguing while they were shopping at the grocery store.
    He was REALLY mad at his wife and she was absolutely livid with him.

    The wife was so mad at her hubby and the world that she decided to shoplift a few canned goods.

    She was caught and ended up before a judge.

    JUDGE: “Ma’am, how many peaches were in that can of peaches you stole?”

    WOMAN” “Six, your honor.”

    JUDGE: “In that case I sentence you to six days in jail.”

    Then the husband jumps up and says: YOUR HONOR!”

    JUDGE: “Yes, what is it you want?”

    HUSBAND: Still mad at his wife says,
    “She also stole can of peas!”

  143. Mr.Vito says:

    ““She also stole can of peas!””

    Good thing it wasn’t a salt carton.

  144. Bitterlaw says:

    Pretty good joke.

  145. GPO says:

    wow on # 149

  146. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    114. “Because they sound more like unsuppressed AR-15 fire… and I don’t see any in the hotel room pictures.”

    Actually a gun with a suppressor is still noisy, and you can hear it a long way away. The main reason for suppressors is without them shooting an AR-15 is so loud it can cause hearing damage. You will notice in videos people shooting an AR-15 are often wearing ear plugs. Its like fire crackers repeatedly going off near your ears.

  147. Mr.Vito says:

    “Actually a gun with a suppressor is still noisy, and you can hear it a long way away.”

    Yes, I know. But the popping and echoing sounds sound unsuppressed rather than the like black cats rather than the chute-like mortary pops.

  148. Mr.Vito says:

    Sounds like first not second when I hear the footage someone took from above the shooter…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=37&v=JlPOQlYZ0hI

  149. Mr.Vito says:

    I dont know why my videos start in the middle… what I am referencing starts at 18 seconds in.

  150. Bitterlaw says:

    It seems like a lot of people waste ammunition when they make these videos. They will be sorry that that wasted those rounds when the zombies show up.

  151. Bitterlaw says:

    I dont know why my videos start in the middle… what I am referencing starts at 18 seconds in.

    That is what happens when you let Nixon’s secretary post your links for you.

  152. Mr.Vito says:

    “They will be sorry that that wasted those rounds when the zombies show up.”

    Their videos will be treated like currency when that happens…

  153. Mr.Vito says:

    “That is what happens when you let Nixon’s secretary post your links for you.”

    You mean Sir Carmine?

    never mind…

  154. Bitterlaw says:

    There are many ways to kill a zombie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1fCbzF9iJ8

  155. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    155. Did not see any suppressors in the few pictures that I saw. There sort of a pain to use, I prefer just earplugs.

  156. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    158. “It seems like a lot of people waste ammunition when they make these videos. They will be sorry that that wasted those rounds when the zombies show up.”

    Yes, but zombies are really sneaky. Have to practice a lot to ready for them. Isn’t Mueller now investigation the Putin connection to the pending zombie attack? Its obvious the Russians are behind it.

  157. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    162. “There are many ways to kill a zombie”

    Violent video — where is the “dead zombie non-lives matter” movement.

  158. Mr.Vito says:

    Those zombies were all unarmed.

  159. lisab says:

    This is why I don’t talk to my wife about stress. She said, “Even if you have problems that you can’t fix, maybe you could talk to somebody about how to accept them and deal with them.”
    —————————————

    well the diabetes part you cannot fix

    but the stress part you certainly can

    and btw, stress will change your hormonal balance which can make a previously good medication level no longer functional

  160. Cash Cow TM says:

    unarmed zombies

    rue damn mob size
    Is a dozen. Bummer.
    bound maze rimes
    adz is uno member

  161. Cash Cow TM says:

    wasted ammunition
    _________________
    a win must dominate

  162. Mr.Vito says:

    Nancy Sinatra says NRA members are murderers and should face a firing squad.

    I’m sure they will gladly give up their guns now.

  163. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “Nancy Sinatra says NRA members are murderers and should face a firing squad.”

    So she is arguing for mass slaughter way beyond anything that happened in Las Vegas. That is the sort of mentality that leads to this type of incidents.

  164. Phil says:

    Don’t you just love the left. Shut up conservatives on campus, gun down NRA members, behead the President…….

    MD’s new friends are a real trip.

  165. Robbie says:

    Tina’s current status: screaming into a pillow

    CNN?
    @CNN 7m
    7 minutes ago

    BREAKING: Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team met with Christopher Steele, author of the Russia dossier http://cnn.it/2fNDWXE

  166. Mr.Vito says:

    You have turned into a sad little man.

  167. Mr.Vito says:

    I’m can’t decide which of TrumpIsPeteWilson or Robbie has the biggest crush on Tina.

  168. Mr.Vito says:

    Meanwhile, the NRA is actually backing a federal review of bump stocks.

  169. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #173
    And? I read the article and it says nothing important. The key question regarding the dossier is “who paid for it?”.
    Do any of your anti-Trump sources know?

  170. NYCmike says:

    Robbie needs more help than Bitterlaw dies.

  171. Robbie says:

    Hey, Trump chumps. President Moron (Tillerson’s word) and his idiot buddy Steve Bannon are setting their sights on destroying the Republican Senate.

    NYCMike to himself “Send a message!”

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/politics/republicans-disarray-trump-senate-congress.html?referer=https://t.co/swY2emar8T?amp=1

  172. Mr.Vito says:

    NFL players’ union teamed up with George Soros to fund leftist advocacy groups

    Tax documents show NFLPA activism goes beyond take-a-knee protests

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/5/nfl-players-union-teamed-george-soros-fund-leftist/

  173. Mr.Vito says:

    If a Trump Chump is someone who wants the GOP to pass good legislation while Trump is President and for America to generally succeed during that time, then I guess he might be talking about HHR.

  174. Mr.Vito says:

    I myself would call someone fixated on The Donald 24/7 a Trump Chump… but to each his own.

  175. Robbie says:

    Sheeple, Jr. says:
    October 5, 2017 at 6:38 pm
    #173
    And? I read the article and it says nothing important. The key question regarding the dossier is “who paid for it?”.
    Do any of your anti-Trump sources know?

    – My anti-Trump sources. Ha! Is that all the Trump chumps have these days? The Secretary of State called the president a moron, but everyone else is the problem. Sad! By the way, is Donnie still moving up in the polls?

    Also, I guess all of the Trump sycophants were proud of President Moron (Tillerson’s word) attacking the San Juan mayor and then watching Orange Donnie throw paper towel rolls at the Puerto Ricans like he was throwing T-shirts into the crowd at a sporting event. So presidential.

    But Rasmussen!!!

  176. lisab says:

    Repeal the Second Amendment

    nytimes

  177. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:11 pm
    If a Trump Chump is someone who wants the GOP to pass good legislation while Trump is President and for America to generally succeed during that time, then I guess he might be talking about HHR.

    – Trump chump’s are sycophants who put Trump and his insane ramblings ahead of the party. They worship the man rather than wanting the party to succeed.

    And the reason we’ve gotten no major legislation passed is we have a president who is MIA in the process. He is incapable of learning or even understanding the details of healthcare or taxes so he can’t be a help in moving the process along.

    And most importantly, we don’t have any legislative victories because President Moron (Tillerson’s word) is too busy litigating slights made against him on Twitter. If you want to know what motivates Donnie, look at his Twitter feed. It’s fights against his own Cabinet Secretaries, members of his own “party”, and members of the media.

  178. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #183
    Incoherent, but a terrific rant!

  179. Mr.Vito says:

    “Trump chump’s are party sycophants who put Trump and his insane ramblings ahead of getting things done. They worship the party rather than wanting America to succeed.”

    Fixed it.

  180. Robbie says:

    NYCmike says:
    October 4, 2017 at 12:59 pm
    Robbie,
    Have any other cabinet members called Trump any names today, yesterday, or in the past whatsoever?
    Please let us know.
    It is YUGE! news, and must be shared (and LIKED, if on Facebook).

    – Show me an instance when any other Cabinet Secretary called a president a moron.

  181. Robbie says:

    Sheeple, Jr. says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:18 pm
    #183
    Incoherent, but a terrific rant!

    – Incoherent is watching you defend and support Trump no matter asinine thing he does.

  182. Mr.Vito says:

    I would guess nearly every Republican on Earth called GWB a moron by the end of his Presidency.

  183. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:21 pm
    “Trump chump’s are party sycophants who put Trump and his insane ramblings ahead of getting things done. They worship the party rather than wanting America to succeed.”
    Fixed it.

    – As you’ve stated many times, you’re not a Republican. You don’t care about the long term health of the Republican Party. I do because I am a Republican. And oh by the way, Trump is neither a real Republican nor a conservative. And unless Republicans figure out a way to deal with Trump, the Democrats will become the dominant party for a long time. At least NYCMike will be able to send lots of messages.

    But what Trump is doing is ruining the image of the Republican Party and the conservative movement. Democrats had to fight off comparisons to Carter for 20 years. In the future, Republicans will have carry the heavy burden of Trump and his disgraceful, ineffective presidency.

    It took Republicans 20 years to get past the burden of Hoover. God only knows how long it will take to get past the burden of the most incompetent presidency of modern times.

  184. Mr.Vito says:

    I’m also fairly certain most of the GOP establishment types called Trump a moron for about a year prior to his election, and never stopped.

    So, no one really cares.

  185. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:25 pm
    I would guess nearly every Republican on Earth called GWB a moron by the end of his Presidency.

    – If so, it took eight years before many reached that point. With Trump it only took eight months before one of his own cabinet secretaries said that. Wow! What an accomplishment.

  186. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:30 pm
    I’m also fairly certain most of the GOP establishment types called Trump a moron for about a year prior to his election, and never stopped.
    So, no one really cares.

    – Maybe you should look at the polls. Trump is at 39% in RCP after just eight months. Seems to me plenty of people care that his presidency has been genuinely awful.

  187. Mr.Vito says:

    “You don’t care about the long term health of the Republican Party.”

    No I don’t… you’ve given me no reason to care.

    “But what Trump is doing is ruining the image of the Republican Party and the conservative movement. ”

    No one thinks Trump is a Republican nor a conservative… so that doesn’t even make sense. Acting like spoiled brats and doing nothing with a majority will ruin what’s left of it’s image though.

    “At least NYCMike will be able to send lots of messages.”

    The party bragged about wanting this little civil war even if it meant losing power for a generation. If you are losing, don’t cry about it now.

    “It took Republicans 20 years to get past the burden of Hoover.”

    Was he a Trumper, too? maybe the party just blows.

  188. Mr.Vito says:

    “Seems to me plenty of people care that his presidency has been genuinely awful.”

    I know you still have trouble with antecedents, but let me help you once more. No one cares about the subject of my post… that Trump was called a moron.

    Maybe if you all didn’t call Trump a moron every time he breathes or wipes his adzz it would carry more weight.

  189. Tina says:

    Any muh russian updates?

  190. Mr.Vito says:

    As for the polls, I gave you one at the start of the Presidency that voters would squarely blame the GOP leadership and not Trump, if nothing got done. So, if you are down on your numbers, you can start with that.

    Don’t give us some line that McCain or Murkowski couldn’t vote for repeal because of some Trump tweet… the American public doesn’t buy it.

  191. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:40 pm
    “Seems to me plenty of people care that his presidency has been genuinely awful.”
    I know you still have trouble with antecedents, but let me help you once more. No one cares about the subject of my post… that Trump was called a moron.
    Maybe if you all didn’t call Trump a moron every time he breathes or wipes his adzz it would carry more weight.

    – And I know you have problems too because you fell for Trump’s act. Sad.

  192. Tina says:

    Mueller to investigate the fbi.

  193. Mr.Vito says:

    “I know you have problems too because you fell for Trump’s act. Sad.”

    I got exactly what I thought I would get. If ‘falling for Trump’s act’ means voting for him over Clinton and believing in our Republic, then I’ll proudly claim that mantle.

    Meanwhile, you are still falling for Trump’s act.

  194. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:43 pm
    As for the polls, I gave you one at the start of the Presidency that voters would squarely blame the GOP leadership and not Trump, if nothing got done. So, if you are down on your numbers, you can start with that.
    Don’t give us some line that McCain or Murkowski couldn’t vote for repeal because of some Trump tweet… the American public doesn’t buy it.

    – Yes, the Republican Party is going to be wiped out next year and it pains me greatly. They have acted timidly and pathetically in the face of Trump’s erratic and self defeating behavior.

  195. Mr.Vito says:

    We get that you preferred Hillary. She would have done wonders for the conservative movement…

  196. Tina says:

    CNN has learned that the FBI and the US intelligence community last year took the Steele dossier more seriously than the agencies have publicly acknowledged. James Clapper, then the director of national intelligence, said in a January 2017 statement that the intelligence community had “not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable.”

    This is hilarious. A criminal the clapper fellow is.

  197. Tina says:

    ally decide the credibility of the dossier without understanding things like, who paid for it? Who are your sources and sub-sources?” the North Carolina Republican said. “We’re investigating a very expansive Russian network of interference in US elections. And though we have been incredibly enlightened at our ability to rebuild backwards, the Steele dossier, up to a certain date, getting past that point has been somewhat impossible.”

    Aaron burr, it is simple.

    Jeb bush

    Mccain

    Her thighness

    Comedy

    You will find the buyer, who bought a fake dossier sourced by russians.

  198. Phil says:

    Took it seriously? Hell, they probably wrote it.

  199. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:45 pm
    “I know you have problems too because you fell for Trump’s act. Sad.”
    I got exactly what I thought I would get. If ‘falling for Trump’s act’ means voting for him over Clinton and believing in our Republic, then I’ll proudly claim that mantle.
    Meanwhile, you are still falling for Trump’s act.

    – Oh, I see. Because Trump’s not Hillary, that excuses his behavior. That’s a mighty low bar to cross.

  200. Mr.Vito says:

    How many times has McCain stood up on the Senate floor and said stop listening to those leftists on the TV and radio… “to hell with them!”

    He declared people on the right thrive on the Senate’s inaction… so he voted for inaction.

  201. Mr.Vito says:

    I’ve never excused Trump’s behavior. I won’t excuse yours either.

  202. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:47 pm
    We get that you preferred Hillary. She would have done wonders for the conservative movement…

    – Nice try. You know darn well I didn’t prefer either of them.

  203. Tina says:

    I heart hillary

    Jebot

  204. Bitterlaw says:

    Damn. I hate Trump but I can never compete with Robbie. I do not expect Trump to be successful but I am not cheering for him to fail. I expect him to lose in 2020 but I will unhappy that a full-time Democrat (as opposed to part-time Democrat Trump) will win.

  205. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:52 pm
    I’ve never excused Trump’s behavior. I won’t excuse yours either.

    – Great. And I’m not going to excuse you or anyone else who continues to defend this disgraceful presidency which, by the way, has accomplished absolutely nothing legislatively and will only result in making the Democrats great again. What a great way to help the conservative movement.

  206. Mr.Vito says:

    “You know darn well I didn’t prefer either of them.”

    Well then stop whining, and pass some legislation, because the excuses are wearing thin.

  207. Robbie says:

    Bitterlaw says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:54 pm
    Damn. I hate Trump but I can never compete with Robbie. I do not expect Trump to be successful but I am not cheering for him to fail. I expect him to lose in 2020 but I will unhappy that a full-time Democrat (as opposed to part-time Democrat Trump) will win.

    – I’m not cheering for him to fail, but it hardly matters what I think because Trump has shown himself incapable of running a competent administration. He’s only interested in himself.

    That said, I have offered plenty of comments here over the last nine months how Trump could pull his rotten presidency out of the ditch. It’s not like he cares what I think though.

  208. Tina says:

    We need jeb to win so that he can really act like a drat.

  209. Phil says:

    My attitude pretty much is in line with Bitter’s regarding what I think of Trump, his prospects, and my preference for him over a Democrat in the WH.

  210. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:58 pm
    “You know darn well I didn’t prefer either of them.”
    Well then stop whining, and pass some legislation, because the excuses are wearing thin.

    – Major legislation can’t get passed without the help of a president. As long as Trump is playing on twitter nothing is going to get done no matter how much Ryan, McConnell, or anyone else wants.

  211. Mr.Vito says:

    “What a great way to help the conservative movement.”

    Sitting on your thumbs because you have both legislative branches and a “non-conservative” that will pass anything you throw on his desk is called incompetence.

  212. Tina says:

    Wow two polls have trump at 45 percent.

  213. Phil says:

    45% is a lot better, but it’s close to his ceiling which makes it difficult to govern.

  214. Mr.Vito says:

    “Major legislation can’t get passed without the help of a president.”

    Bull. The house has had zero issues. The senate has had zero balls. Too bad you don’t have a Reid or a Schumer. If they wanted 50 votes, they’d get 50 votes.

  215. Mr.Vito says:

    I think the GOP leadership just s*cks… the last time your buddies were in charge they gave Obama a supermajority.

  216. Phil says:

    Thanks to show boat McCain, Corker, Collins it looks like a tax bill will not make it either. That’s not on Trump.

  217. Tina says:

    Not surprising that real con artists will phuq up tax cuts.

  218. Mr.Vito says:

    The GOP got a rubber stamp President, and they can’t do squat. Everything he can do as an executive, he’s done, and has been conservative… the excuses don’t wash.

  219. Tina says:

    Maybe they can open up,some more muh russian investigations.

    Didnt burr admit that they found nothing, but must keep open the investigation into nothing.

  220. Mr.Vito says:

    Trump has gotten A ratings from the Governors on three straight hurricane responses…

    but let’s cower in a corner because he threw some paper towels, and question whether he knows Puerto Ricans are Americans because Hillary said so. What a joke.

  221. Mr.Vito says:

    That will forward the conservative movement!

  222. Cash Cow TM says:

    sycophants
    _____________
    psycho ants
    psycho Stan
    tan psychos

  223. Bitterlaw says:

    I don’t know what will happen with the investigation into Russia. I do know that when it finally concludes, either Tina or Robbie will look like a jackass.

  224. Mr.Vito says:

    I’m seeing from many sources that Trump is decertifying the Iran deal.

  225. NYCmike says:

    I would join in, but Mr.Vito is saying everything that needs to be said.

    He has NOT praised Trump, in fact, he has in a way rdiculed him. BUT, Vito is totally right on: Trump was ready to sign Anything, but Congress could not come through.

    Carry on, Vito, great job dealing with the paper roll throwing worry wart!

  226. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Nobody here is in a bracket that would get tax cuts anyways except for maybe Bitter.

    The main goals of “tax reform” will be to give a big corporate tax cut and cut taxes on the top 1% (i.e. the GOP donor class).

    Nothing else matters to the GOP. They need the money to fund 2018 campaigns.

    And with reconciliation, they can’t bust the deficit to do it anymore which means taking money from the middle class because that’s where the revenue is.

    No poster here makes anywhere enough to get a tax cut under the new GOP bill. Maybe Bitter. It’s more likely most of his income will fall under the new higher rates.

    But facts don’t matter do they? Anybody who says anything you disagree with is automatically a troll now even if the facts are on their side and they make a reasoned argument.

    That’s why you’re all partisan morons.

  227. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Nobody here is in a bracket that would get tax cuts anyways except for maybe Bitter.

    The main goals of “tax reform” will be to give a big corporate tax cut and cut taxes on the top 1% (i.e. the GOP donor class).

    Nothing else matters to the GOP. They need the money to fund 2018 campaigns.

    And with reconciliation, they can’t bust the deficit to do it anymore which means taking money from the middle class because that’s where the revenue is.

    No poster here makes anywhere enough to get a tax cut under the new GOP bill. Maybe Bitter. It’s more likely most of his income will fall under the new higher rates.

    But facts don’t matter do they? Anybody who says anything you disagree with is automatically a troll now even if the facts are on their side and they make a reasoned argument.

    That’s why you’re all partisan morons.

  228. Cash Cow TM says:

    DRUDGE

    Man with screwdriver shreds oil painting by Hitler…
    _____________________________________
    they should not allowed him to be
    drinking screwdrivers at the art gallery.

  229. NYCmike says:

    Robbie to become a Mullah in 3….2….1

  230. Tina says:

    Commie mayor gave him an f rating while pictured in fron of pallets.

  231. Cash Cow TM says:

    decertifying

    frying deceit

  232. Cash Cow TM says:

    “I do not come to bury Trump, but to praise him.”

    or is it

    “I do not come to praise Trump, but to bury him.”?

    Praise Trump from whom
    All blessings flow.
    Praise him all creatures
    Here below…

  233. Cash Cow TM says:

    “f rating”

    farting?

  234. Cash Cow TM says:

    OK.
    I will stop now.

  235. Phil says:

    “That’s why you’re all partisan morons”

    If only we could all be non partisan like our friend Pete Wilson here.

    We are partisan morons.

    Ol Pete is a non partisan genius.

  236. Mr.Vito says:

    Pete is a Noisy Gong.

    BONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

  237. Bitterlaw says:

    I hate to disappoint you all but I am not in the top bracket. As a full tenured professor, Mr. Vito probably makes more. I don’t know his school so I can’t confirm it.

  238. Bitterlaw says:

    Teen suicide is horrible. Middle-aged suicide? Not as mysterious.

  239. Mr.Vito says:

    I quit a couple years ago, Mr.Bitter… I said so on here. We have never been anywhere near the top… I said the other day my taxes would probably stay the same or go up slightly, and that was fine with me. I would rather see more job opportunities for Americans than reduce my ridiculously low effective tax rate.

  240. Mr.Vito says:

    I would also rather see people get their deductibles and premiums reduced, but I think Trump called someone a jerk, so it isn’t going to happen. If he had said ‘to hell with them’ it might have had a chance.

  241. Bitterlaw says:

    Mr. Vito – I forgot. Do you ever see Dr. Jay?

  242. Wes says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 5, 2017 at 7:25 pm
    I would guess nearly every Republican on Earth called GWB a moron by the end of his Presidency.

    Bitterlaw, Jason, and Corey still think GWB was some kind of infallible god.

  243. Mr.Vito says:

    “Do you ever see Dr. Jay?”

    Only on Tuesdays, when he gets his crust and water.

  244. Bitterlaw says:

    Zzzzzzzzzz. Wes lies as much as NYC. I have said repeatedly that Bush spent too much and the surge started too late. Wes knows I have said this before but ignores it because it does not support his narrative.

  245. Cash Cow TM says:

    “I hate to disappoint you all but I am not in the top bracket.”
    *************************
    I think Walt is in the top bracket.
    He is loaded.

    I helped see to that.

  246. Bitterlaw says:

    Like I said, Robbie or Tina will be a jackass at the end of the Russia investigation. Both cannot be true.

  247. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    203. “– Yes, the Republican Party is going to be wiped out next year and it pains me greatly. They have acted timidly and pathetically in the face of Trump’s erratic and self defeating behavior.”

    Good grief. Robbie making an election prediction, after his major 2016 election night fiasco. His flowing steam of anti-Trump posts are like a broken record; worse he is trying to squirm back into his concern troll “it pains me greatly” mode.

  248. Trump says:

    Jeb $ucker predicts doom in 2016. That is great news with Jeb $ucker’s prediction record. Go suck on Jeb’s c0ck some more, retard!

    Cruisin’ to reelection

  249. Trump says:

    *2018

  250. Bitterlaw says:

    Actually, Trump Guru also predicted doom for the GOP in 2016. Remember that when he makes new predictions.

  251. Tina says:

    Sbl lies.

  252. Tina says:

    Rottie has been wrong.

    Wrong way, rottie.

  253. Bitterlaw says:

    Am I Sbl? If so, what did I lie about?

  254. Bitterlaw says:

    Damn. Tampa Bay needs new kicker.

  255. Wes says:

    I know what you said, Bitter. I also know during all this time when you claim to believe Budh needed to start the surge, you NEVER ONCE posted any misgivings about the direction of the war or his spending.

    Convenidntly long after GWB left office, you and Jason found things you supposedly didn’t like about his administration–and those things are identical.

    In other, more succinct words, you never actually gave a good goddamn about those things but pretend to now so as to falsely claim you aren’t a shill.

    You are a lying, hypocritical, GWB-wordhipping fraud.

  256. Trump says:

    I could grab a thousand pussies and I’d still be cruisin’ to reelection.

  257. Bitterlaw says:

    You can GFY, Wes. I was critical then, too. Go search the archives. I’m not doing your homework, bitch.

    I gave you credit yesterday for your knowledge and you come back looking to lie about me. You are a sad wounded soul.

  258. Bitterlaw says:

    267 is probably not Trump Guru.

  259. Bitterlaw says:

    If TB had a kicker, they would be ahead with a minute to go.

  260. Wes says:

    You’re lying, Bitter. You’ve always been a Bush shill. You just try to pretend you’re not.

    There’s not one post during the Bush Administration where you either questioned the prosecution of the war or said he was spending too much.

    We both know why you won’t look for one:

    It doesn’t exist.

    You’re a pathetic blind disciple of one of the biggest failures as President in history who has to lie even to himself and pretend he has the ability not to shill for everything GWB did.

  261. Bitterlaw says:

    The apologist for the horrors of American slavery is calling me out? The only poster at HHR to ever dismiss slavery as a mere “wrong” rather than evil can F off.

    What’s wrong, Wes? You don’t usually come in looking to fight. You warm up to it.

  262. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Who gives a sh!t about Bush now. If Bush was an idiot, what does that make Trump?

    Bush was going to go down as the worst president of the 21st century and then Trump indisputably beat him to that goal.

    ****

    And to think that the “tax reform” bill will create jobs is ludicrous. Slashing the corporate tax rate is a back-door to Trump giving himself a tax cut.

    All the countries with low corporate tax-rates are basically tax havens. Ireland and Lichenstein come to mind. Puerto Rico was one of those havens before and it clearly gave them no long economic benefit.

    What gets Americans employed is improving their skills and capital in a competitive work market.

    Slashing taxes and funding for a basic welfare net hasn’t worked at all in places like Kansas and Louisiana. The Kansas legislature had to finally over-ride Brownback’s idiotic tax cuts but the damage is done. After cutting services to the bone and going to a 4-day schoolweek, Kansas’ economy is strictly worse off.

    Now Trump wants to bring the same policies on a national level and all because the GOP is completely beholdend to their billionaire donor class.

    So congrats if you happen to be in the top 1%. If you’re not, you’re a total chump for voting for the GOP.

  263. lisab says:

    I have said repeatedly that Bush spent too much and the surge started too late.
    ———————————————–

    well, i don’t know if bitterlaw criticized bush spending at the time, but here is what he wrote on the day the bush iraq surge was announced. you can draw your own conclusions

    Bitterlaw says:
    January 10, 2007 at 9:46 pm

    It’s about time that the U.S. told Iran and Syria to back the . . .off. Of course, they will send a few units across the border to test us. I can’t wait to see how Iranian trucks stand up to U.S. attack helicopters.

  264. lisab says:

    Slashing the corporate tax rate is a back-door to Trump giving himself a tax cut.
    ————————————–

    no, not so much.

    however, it would presumably increase his business interests in real estate as more usa citizens would have more money to spend on luxury hotel rooms, golf vacations and such things. his days of building new buildings is over, but he has substantial business holdings which would prosper if american business people had more money to spend.

  265. NYCmike says:

    Wes has gone off the rails since he announced he was getting married…….and then never said another word about it.

  266. Bitterlaw says:

    I don’t know if Wes is really getting married. I know that I did not get an invitation.

  267. Tina says:

    I think the president does deserve an A+ for the hurrican disaster handling and the tragic event in Las Vegas.

    He has clearly turned things around.

    The r congress has failed, as I pr dictrd because of incompetent leadership. I pick on mitchie and ryano for their inaction,

    However, look at senator burr. By all accounts a nice senator. He went before camers and said no collusion, but still wants to investigate something. He is letting the drat chairman push him around. This is not burrs finest moment.

  268. Tina says:

    If the rs do mot turn it around, we will suffer. There are rumblings that the campaign funding will dry up.

  269. Tina says:

    I can see still giving ryano another opportunity but little tchie has done a sheotty job since 2010.

  270. Tina says:

    Since inqguration, i have said that the russian matter was and is a hoax. I can still see the sp reaching and charging manafort for something unrelated to the russian hoax.

    I have also said that unlocking the origins of the fake dossier is what needs to be investigated. It appears that Mueller and the congressional investigations have finalky begun to reaearch this.

    With that said, if the dossier was paid for by comedy and used to damage the President, then mueller ahould not be leading this portion.

    If mccain ontained the fake dossier, then he should be charged for colluding with a foreigner, who used fake russian sources.

  271. Tina says:

    The fake dossier was used as a basis for the wiretapping.

  272. hugh says:

    The Hugh Tax Plan in Bites.

    Lower personal rates with fewer brackets

    Eliminate most deductions and increase the standard deduction

    Lower corporate rates and eliminate double taxation of foreign profits

    Put a surtax on the uber leisure rich, this helps to eliminate the argument that tax cuts favor the rich. Of course, tax cuts by definition favor the rich, because in this country the poor and lower middle no longer pay income taxes. However, I have no problem with a surtax on wages over a high threshold. I am think $1M in wages, but the number is not that important its mostly optics. The best ways to go after the uber rich follow.

  273. hugh says:

    Eliminate the estate tax. No one pays it anyway. Instead, on death you can choose to pay tax on all your gains and get a step up in basis or you can pay no taxes and get no step up in basis. The argument about saving family businesses is all bunk. If you want to keep your family business, you can avoid the taxes and keep the business by not selling the assets or stock. Problem solved the family business survives. If family members want to sell they can and pay the full tax on the gain using the original basis. Simple right? Fair right?

  274. hugh says:

    Eliminate family foundations. If you want to avoid all your taxes and eliminate any kind of death tax, make large perpetual contributions to real organizations or make sure actual control passes from the family to unaffiliated individuals. The abuse is rampart. Once again protecting the uber rich at everyone else’s expense. However, getting this one right will be quite tough.

    Eliminate carried interest as cap gains. This has always been a ridiculous idea. Its why wall street gives so much to democrats. The republicans are too stupid tied to the rhetoric from idiots like Limbaugh Hannity and DeMint et al to make this change and democrats can be bought off. Wall street gets our loyalty for free.

  275. hugh says:

    And finally

    Initiate a national sales tax (not a vat tax) so the leisure poor make at least some contribution and the underground economy pays something. The average single woman with two children today gets subsidies of about 60K if they play it right. Not a bad gig. However, you have to be clever enough to know how to do it, stop at two kids and avoid supporting a male with no job. My brother lives in this world and says it is very easy to do and lots of people live very nice lives doing almost nothing.

  276. Phil says:

    -33K jobs

  277. Trump says:

    I’m getting pretty pissed at this whole Steele dossier.

  278. Tina says:

    Phil an anomaly due to hurricane.

    4.2 is the ur.

    It dropped.

  279. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Tina & Phil:
    U-6 rate also dropped to 8.3% and Average Hourly Wages spiked higher.
    There will be “tons” of new construction jobs created in the next few months.
    The month that Hurricane Katrina hit, the economy lost 326,000 jobs, but rebounded very strongly.

    Watch Robbie’s head explode, Rasmussen(less) has The Donald’s Job Approval today at 46%.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

  280. Tina says:

    I saw thae u6 number too, thanks.

    Labor participation rate is also up.

  281. NYCmike says:

    Saw a story about John Kelly that I hope is NOT true…..his phone was hacked months ago?

    Surprised Robbie did NOT alert us to this……I am sure he would have given Bannon the same benefit of doubt.

  282. Cash Cow TM says:

    1. I think the WV Road Bond issue on the special election on Saturday will pass.

    2. due to the rancor expressed in posts here, I propose that at the Fall HHR banquet this year we ban the carrying of guns by participants.

  283. NYCmike says:

    Since we are banning the carrying of guns, I will have several of my drones hovering outside windows providing protection from evil Establishment types. 🙂

  284. DW says:

    So far my baseball predictions are right on track. Astros up 1-0 over Red Sox, and Indians up 1-0 over Yankees.

  285. Tina says:

    I think it was in december, ny? Phone not working?

  286. NYCmike says:

    Something like that, Tina.

    A lot of compromised “smart” people, in and around our governments leadership.

  287. NYCmike says:

    DJ?

  288. NYCmike says:

    CCC

  289. Bitterlaw says:

    If bakers should be allowed to not bake for religious beliefs, then coffee shops should be allowed to toss out Christian protesters. Either you believe in the rights of private business owners or you do not.

    When did pro-life people adopt the label “abolitionists?”

  290. DW says:

    302 – stated the other way, if religious bakers can be forced to bake a homosexual wedding cake, then the homosexual coffee shop owner should be forced to serve the religious.

    My guess is that in the end, the rights of the coffee shop owner will be upheld, and the Christian bakers will be forced to bake the cakes.

  291. Phil says:

    …except they weren’t protesting, Bitter. The owner is a real class act BTW.

    I can’t decide who gets the tolerant award for the week – the POS coffee shop owner or Nancy Sinatra. Tough call.

  292. NYCmike says:

    “…except they weren’t protesting, Bitter. ”

    -Somehow, that escaped Bitter’s attention.

  293. Bitterlaw says:

    DW – Put it any way you want. I just like consistency. Force the baking AND service of the religious OR do not force the baking AND do not force the service of the religious. I can live with either one.

  294. Bitterlaw says:

    They were protesters who were not actively protesting at the time. Again, you either believe that a business owner can refuse service or you don’t (absent protected classes).

  295. Bitterlaw says:

    A group opposed to nuclear weapons won the Nobel Peace Prize. That actually sense. More sense than Obama or Al Gore winning it.

  296. Bitterlaw says:

    Makes sense.

  297. Bitterlaw says:

    Is the Trump Administration still using Obama’s method of cooking the books to calculate the unemployment rate or a different method?

  298. Jonesy says:

    Robbie sad.

    US Rep Shea Porter (D)New Hampshire is retiring, creating pickup opportunity for GOP.

  299. NYCmike says:

    “Is the Trump Administration still using Obama’s method of cooking the books to calculate the unemployment rate or a different method?”

    -I believe they chose NOT to listen to my advice, and kept the same method.

  300. Jonesy says:

    Robbie very sad.

    Trump by EO, gets rid of Obamacare Birth Control mandate, and restores many more religious freedom protections.

  301. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “If bakers should be allowed to not bake for religious beliefs, then coffee shops should be allowed to toss out Christian protesters. Either you believe in the rights of private business owners or you do not.”

    I might interpret this issue differently. A Christian bakery does not have to right to not serve someone who is GLBT, they should treat them like any other customer, and sell them baked goods. However, the store cannot be forced back a cake in a manner which violates their religious beliefs.

    Likewise, the religious group has a right to frequent the coffee shop like anyone else. But they have no right to proselyte or place their literature in the coffee shop.

    In either case, you have the right to be served liked a regular customer, but not the right to demand the owner of the business cater to your particular belief system.

  302. Jonesy says:

    Buzz that Trump will allow Health Insurance to be sold over State Lines this month?

  303. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    314. “bake” instead of “back.”

  304. NYCmike says:

    Jonesy,

    He got rid of an Obama EO, correct?

    He did not put forth an EO which goes against a law?

  305. DW says:

    Bitter, in that these are privately owned businesses, I lean toward the right of any business owner to refuse service to anyone they want for any reason they want and let the community decide whether they will patronize a place in response to that free decision.

  306. Jonesy says:

    SD, good points, but this was in Soviet Seattle, Correct?

    The double standard is a joke for sure

  307. NYCmike says:

    SDC,

    I always had that question: Was the baker refusing to sell anything to the gay couple, or were they refusing to do a special order for them?

  308. Jonesy says:

    317. Correct Mike, my bad

  309. NYCmike says:

    Just wanted to clarify to make sure I had it correct…..Thanks for pointing it out, once again showing the actions of a “life-time LIBERAL Democrat”.

  310. Mr.Vito says:

    “If bakers should be allowed to not bake for religious beliefs, then coffee shops should be allowed to toss out Christian protesters. Either you believe in the rights of private business owners or you do not.”

    Did you read the article? You’ll see the Christians acted totally consistent with that.

  311. Jonesy says:

    322. LOL Mike. But it will still not convince Nat Review and Robbie, that he is not a Dem Trojan Horse

  312. Bitterlaw says:

    I read it. DW understood me. Mr. Vito did not.

    Service is service. Baking a cake is still service for a bakery. No different than selling cupcakes or coffee.

    I don’t think bakers had to make a cake. I think the coffee shop owner had a right to toss out peaceful, wonderful non-protesting people for no reason at all.

  313. Mr.Vito says:

    “Mr. Vito did not.”

    How so? I asked you a question to see if you saw the people in the article agreed with you. So we all agree. GFY.

  314. NYCmike says:

    The only hypocrite is the coffee shop owner.

  315. Phil says:

    The video of this “business owner” is up over at Powerline, Bitter. Take a look at it and tell us what you think.

    Frankly, had I been those people, I could not have gotten out of there fast enough once potty mouth had begun his rant.

    Pathetic.

  316. Mr.Vito says:

    Then there is this deli owner…

    “Soon as I heard it was country music, I felt relief. White people shooting white people isn’t terror … it’s community outreach. #LasVegas,” Morelli’s tweet read.

    http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2017/10/04/deli-facing-backlash-after-co-owner-called-las-vegas-shooting-community-outreach.html

  317. Bitterlaw says:

    Phil – I will see it later. I support the tight of rude business owners to be rude but it is not the best busibess model. I also support people saying, “I will never go there because he was rude to those nice Christians.” I also support people who say, “I will go there because he was rude to those nice Christians.” Free market rocks.

  318. Bitterlaw says:

    Until there is a known motive, the Las Vegas shooter is not a terrorist. He is an evil bastard.

  319. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Robbie Happy- a new AP/NORC poll shows Trump’s approval/disapproval at 32-67. Legit?

    Robbie Sad- a new Mitchell Michigan Poll shows Trump +5 over H. Clinton in MI if an election were held today.Also, Kid Rock -8 versus Stabenow(D) in a 2018 Senate race.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/Rosetta_Stone_-_Mitchell_Poll_Kid_Rock_v_Stabenow_Press_Release_10-4-17_A.pdf

  320. Phil says:

    Since it is Seattle, I have no doubt this guy’s vile behavior toward Christians in his place of business will probably double his business.

  321. Cash Cow TM says:

    If someone had the name Matthew Floor then sometimes
    their name would be written as Floor, Matt.

  322. lisab says:

    if the business has a business license, and their business is serving coffee, or making wedding cakes, then they should have to sell coffee or cakes to anyone who has the money to pay and is not causing a disturbence or breaking some other regulation, e.g. no shirt, no shoes, no service.

  323. Mr.Vito says:

    See, even lisab agrees you shouldn’t have to sell to everyone. She just disagrees about who gets to make that determination.

  324. Tina says:

    Then we all agree.

    Yes, ultimately…

  325. Mr.Vito says:

    HUGS!!

  326. Tina says:

    Per schweikarts tweet, federal jobs are down 13k.

    Imagine, a drat in the wh cutting…

  327. lisab says:

    no one is forcing the businesses to sell coffee or wedding cakes. they can decide they don’t want to sell coffee or wedding cakes.

  328. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “SDC, I always had that question: Was the baker refusing to sell anything to the gay couple, or were they refusing to do a special order for them?”

    Have the same question. The baker was told the cake would be for a gay marriage, so he refused to bake it. He had also refused others he knew were for gay marriages. So it was not necessarily a special order. But do not know for sure. Its a “borderline” issue, so can see how it got to the Supreme Court. Assume like any other wedding cake, the couple had specific requests regarding what was going on the cake.

  329. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    340. “no one is forcing the businesses to sell coffee or wedding cakes. they can decide they don’t want to sell coffee or wedding cakes.”

    So what? A business has a right to operate. The question is whether a customer can force them to do, or not do, something based on political or religious views.

    They have to comply with civil rights laws, but does that include dictating to them how to bake goods, or being able to limit expression of political & religious views in their establishments, if done in an non-disruptive manner between customers? Likewise can I keep someone out of my coffee shop based on religion — can I have a “Protestant only” or “Agnostic Only” coffee house?

  330. lisab says:

    businesses are regulated entities, they have to comply with the laws of their controlling government agencies.

    that is why businesses cannot refuse to sell to blacks anymore. if the owner has a religious issue with blacks, that does not allow them not to serve them.

    you are either in a business or not

  331. Mr.Vito says:

    Jim Crow was government regulation.

  332. Mr.Vito says:

    So the businesses complied…

  333. mnw says:

    311 Jonesy

    Unless the DEMs add some of their secret voter fraud sauce that they used to steal NH from Ayotte & PDT last time.

  334. lisab says:

    and ollie’s barbeque found out that federal law presides

  335. Mr.Vito says:

    Federal Law was okay with Jim Crow, too… until it wasn’t. Hopefully it won’t be again… I think the free-marketers are correct not to trust it.

  336. Mr.Vito says:

    I encourage every business to print a sign and post it in their window of exactly who they won’t serve so I can take my money elsewhere.

  337. Mr.Vito says:

    Couldn’t post a relevant quote from the article without getting put in moderation…

  338. lisab says:

    I encourage every business to …
    ———————————–

    and i encourage every business to follow federal civil rights law AND case law

  339. Cash Cow TM says:

    All these hurricanes entering the U.S. from the south.

    If we only had built the wall earlier….

  340. Bitterlaw says:

    If SCOTUS ever says bakers don’t have to bake cakes for gay weddings, lisab will encourage businesses to ignore case law.

  341. Cash Cow TM says:

    First came Harvey,
    then Irma and Kate.
    We had no wall
    not even a gate.

    All these storms
    we could not halt
    And Cash Cow says
    It;s all Trump’s fault.

  342. Mr.Vito says:

    Yep, Mr.Bitter… case is never settled until the liberals like it. Then somehow it is settled. Once they dont like it, it will be unsettled once more.

  343. Mr.Vito says:

    They had walls in New Orleans, Cash Cow.

  344. Bitterlaw says:

    New Orleans was like building a city at the bottom of an empty swimming pool and then being shocked when it rains and it floods.

  345. biomom says:

    New Orleans existed before the United States was a country.

  346. Cash Cow TM says:

    Mr. Vito,

    New Orleans does not have a 30 foot tall border wall.

    that’swhatI’mtalkin’about!
    ——————————

  347. Bitterlaw says:

    I woke up at 3:00 a.m. with a panic attack. Oddly enough, my wife who thinks I need to talk about issues, did not want to have a conversation at that time.

  348. Cash Cow TM says:

    So now there is a snake living under the rock wall surrounding the fish pond and a bird flying around in my garage.

    We have practically every sort of critters here on this 1/3 of an acre except bears, buffalo and eagles.

  349. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    There appears to be a developing story about an auto attack near a museum in London.Go to Drudge for the link.
    We need Car Control as much as Gun Control!

  350. Jonesy says:

    Sheeple, that AP poll yesterday has the Dems freaking out.

    Trump beating Hillary in Mich today by 5%. she had more money and ground team than any of the Dem contenders in 2020 will ever have, and if holds the Midwest, they are screwed.

  351. Jonesy says:

    London needs a new Mayor, and a new PM. Their PC attitude, is going to make this great city a war zone for years

  352. Tina says:

    Pm may is ineffective, maybe even worse than her thighness, if that can be imagined.

  353. Tina says:

    Re michigan, it was fb that won trump the election.

    Cnn has declared that.

  354. Jonesy says:

    Even if Zuckerberg censors the right on FB for 2018 or 2020, it does not matter. Twitter is the King, and Trump owns it.

  355. Bitterlaw says:

    But the people following Trump on twitter would likely be voting for him anyway. Can twitter reach those who don’t follow Trump? I don’t use it so I don’t know.

  356. lisab says:

    Knowingly exposing others to HIV will no longer be a felony in California

    Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill Friday that lowers from a felony to a misdemeanor the crime of knowingly exposing a sexual partner to HIV without disclosing the infection.

    The measure also applies to those who give blood without telling the blood bank that they are HIV-positive.

  357. lisab says:

    SUSPECT USED CAR WITH FULLY AUTO TRANSMISSION TO RUN PEOPLE DOWN IN LONDON … it also had a bumper

  358. lisab says:

    Can twitter reach those who don’t follow Trump? I don’t use it so I don’t know.
    ————————————–

    his tweets go everywhere in social media, they are hard to avoid

  359. Bitterlaw says:

    It bothers me that because I was diagnosed with diabetes in the 1980s that I am not allowed to donate blood. Insulin used to come from cows and pigs. There was concern that disease could be transferred through insulin to the diabetic and then to the recipient of the blood.

  360. lisab says:

    If SCOTUS ever says bakers don’t have to bake cakes for gay weddings, lisab will encourage businesses to ignore case law.
    —————————————–

    no, i support the right of an individual baker to refuse to bake a cake or a barista to refuse to serve anyone they don’t want to — because they are an individual … and the business can fire them for refusing

  361. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    ” i support the right of an individual baker to refuse to bake a cake or a barista to refuse to serve anyone they don’t want to”

    If they are refusing to serve someone because of their race, sex, disability status, etc., it is illegal conduct.

    “and the business can fire them for refusing”

    Change the “can” to a “will.”

  362. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    371. “But the people following Trump on twitter would likely be voting for him anyway. Can twitter reach those who don’t follow Trump? I don’t use it so I don’t know.”

    Trump’s twitter account is public, so anyone can view it. Just type in “Trump, twitter” and it will take you to it — @realDonaldTrump

    He has 40 million twitter followers, and it is likely millions of others often view it as well who (like us) do not have twitter accounts.

    The press avidly reads and reports on it about every day. It allows Trump to effectively control the public discussion, based on the issues he wants addressed. The press probably realize they are his patsies — but they need headlines and news, so willingly serve as his tools. Think about how much of the news over the last year involved issues raised by Trump’s twitter.

  363. lisab says:

    “If they are refusing to serve someone because of their race, sex, disability status, etc., it is illegal conduct.”

    any person can refuse to serve anyone. employees are not slaves.

    however, they can be fired for that conduct and the business still has to serve the person or it would be illegal

    which is why an individual doctor can refuse to perform abortions, but a hospital that lists that as a service cannot.

  364. Bitterlaw says:

    But would lisab allow a baker who is the only baker in her shop not bake? No.

  365. lisab says:

    yes, the baker can refuse. and can be fired.

    the bakery would have to hire another baker to perform the service.

  366. Tina says:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxNews/status/916762930892492801

    Senate rino rats causing problems with fundraising.

  367. NYCmike says:

    It seems like a lot of donors think that Congress sends legislation to the President as well……,Robbie, “CG”, did you learn about that in civics 101 yet, or were you absent because President Trump sent a tweet out that morning??

  368. NYCmike says:

    Saw a comment on an Althouse thread about Weinstein:

    “Trump proven right yet again…..you can just walk by and grab them by the p*ssy!”

  369. JC says:

    Trump’s approval is at 46% right now. Virtually the same percentage that he got elected with.

    So after all of the deep state shenanigans, the massive russian hoaxes concocted out of thin air, politically motivated witch hunts, a media that has morphed into soviet style propaganda, fake news based off ‘anonymous sources’, 95% negative press coverage, two political parties working in unison to subvert him, pop culture/hollywood constantly attacking him, artificially generated protests and riots, many congressman/journalists calling for his impeachment almost everyday, daily accusations of racism/nazism ect, and an unending effort to overturn the election results and remove him from office…

    Have not made a single dent in Trump’s approval numbers.

    Imagine if we actually had a free and fair press.

  370. Bitterlaw says:

    Deep state? Don’t they hold their meetings on the first and third Tuesdays of the month on the grassy knoll?

  371. Tina says:

    Kelly loves what he is doing. He is doing a great job. He will be with me for the Next 7 Years.
    Tillerson and I get along fine. I just wish he would be tougher at times.

    Sometimes Tillerson and Kelly and I have a difference of opinion. That does not mean we do not like and respect each other and get along well.

    -trump

    Can we get one more fake nbc story on this?

  372. Cash Cow TM says:

    WV ROAD BOND ELECTION RESULTS

    Passing by 76%-24% margin

    Top 11 populated counties of WV’s 55 counties
    (not in population order)
    ******************************************
    CAN YOU PICK WHICH ONE IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER?
    ____________________________________________
    Northern panhandle:
    88% for in Ohio county (Wheeling)

    North central WV:
    80% for in Monongalia county (Morgantown)
    75% for in Marion county (Fairmont)
    75% for in Harrison county (Clarksburg)

    Central Ohio River Valley:
    65% for in Wood county (Parkersburg)

    Lower Ohio River Valley:
    76% for in Cabell county (Huntinton)

    south central WV:
    82% for in Putnam county
    (suburb between Charleston and Huntington)
    80% for in Kanawha county (Charleston)

    southern WV:
    78% for in Raleigh county (Beckley)
    81% for in Mercer county (Bluefield)

    Eastern panhandle”
    51% for in Berkeley county (Martinsburg)*
    *where Walt lives
    the road bond issue passed in his county by 62 votes
    (Walt voted for it) 🙂
    *******************************
    It passed in 54 of 55 counties.
    The closest it passed was in Berkeley County. 🙁

  373. Cash Cow TM says:

    Big winners as a result of the WV road bond:

    –Governor Jim Justice (was D but now R)
    **********************************************
    Big losers:
    –WV GOP State executive committee who came out nearly unanimously against the road bond

    –various county GOP executive committees who publicly came out in opposition

    –Various Rs in the Liberty Caucus in the legislature who worked tireless against the road bond

    –Richie county (only county to vote the road bond down)

    –Berkeley county, who came within 62 votes of defeating the road bond in this county

    [About 80% of the 55 counties passed the bond issue by anywhere between 89% for to 60% for…]

  374. lisab says:

    once west ginia gets a road,

    will the next bond issue be for a car to drive on it?

  375. Cash Cow TM says:

    There is a movement afoot on facebook by the hard right Rs to go after and defeat the R legislators who spoke publicly in favor of the road bond.

    Because “obviously they could not be TRUE Rs if they favored the road bond.”

    …SMH…

  376. Cash Cow TM says:

    Cash cow just gave a big ol’ moon to lisab.

  377. Cash Cow TM says:

    Facebook:

    “since I voted against the road bond, as did everyone else in my household and all the people I talked to said they were voting against it, I think the vote was rigged. No way it could have passed by better than a 2-1 margin. It was rigged.”

    …SMH…

  378. Cash Cow TM says:

    82,000 for
    31,000 against

    95% of precincts in…
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
    If you recall, Cash Cow predicted easy passage.

  379. lisab says:

    next thing you know, west ginia will want oil lamps and the telegraph

  380. lisab says:

    parents of Malnourished Iowa 16-Year-Old Who Weighed 56 Pounds When She Died Are Charged with Murder

  381. Cash Cow TM says:

    lisab,

    Do not make me come up there and slap you silly…

  382. Cash Cow TM says:

    Oh, lisab,

    I forgot to tell you…

    The town of Harpers Ferry wanted to arm themselves and march on MA to go get the John Brown bell back that your people stole from the fire house during the civil war.

    Walt appeared before the city council and urged then not resort to violence.

    For his efforts, the town of Harper’s Ferry has awarded Walt the

    NO BELL PEACE PRIZE! 🙂

  383. Cash Cow TM says:

    oil lamps and the telegraph

    “oil lamps”

    small poi
    I spam! (lol)
    limp olas
    limp Laos
    soap mill
    Siam poll
    oil lamps
    moil slap
    lima slop
    lops mail
    laim pols
    moa spill

  384. lisab says:

    the brave men of massachusetts saved the bell from being melted down and made into cannon for the rebels … it’s nice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XgqikzFqY

  385. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The warmest spot in the nation yesterday was 100 degrees at Death Valley, California. The coldest place was only 168 miles away at Bodie State Park in California at 9 degrees.

    National High and Low Temps
    October 6, 2017
    HIGH 100 at Death Valley, CA
    LOW 9 at Bodie State Park, CA

  386. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    California is about to enter its rainy season, and not a moment to soon, as the permanent drought caused by climate change has left the state parched . . . oh wait. . . our reservoirs have more water in them now then their historic averages. The major ones (Shasta, Don Pedro, Folsom) as well as most others in the state are at above 125% of average.

    And now they are saying that climate change causes MORE RAINFALL:

    Before,

    “California Braces for Unending Drought
    NYT, MAY 9, 2016
    LOS ANGELES — With California entering its fifth year of a statewide drought, Gov. Jerry Brown moved on Monday to impose permanent water conservation measures and called on water suppliers to prepare for a future made drier by climate change.”

    And Now-

    “Heavy California rains par for the course for climate change; MARCH 21, 2017

    “Stanford climatologist Noah Diffenbaugh explains why heavy rains during a drought are to be expected for a state in the throes of climate change.”

  387. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    SanDiegoRetard opens his dumb mouth again. Please share your opinion with cherry-picked facts with more of the real world and not this intellectually inbred safespace.

    The vast majority of people that give you weird looks or smile and move on are not agreeing with you.

    They see a profoundly ignorant man who they want nothing to do with.

  388. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    404. “Another village has lost its fool, go home they miss you.”

  389. Robbie says:

    It must be like Christmas morning for the Trump Chumps and the “send a message” crowd.

    – Ed Martin, a pro-Trump CNN contributor, is considering challenging Josh Hawley in the primary at the request of fake conservative Steve Bannon.

    – Erik Prince, the disgraced former head of Blackwater, is going to parachute into Wyoming and challenge John Barrasso at the request of fake conservative Steve Bannon.

    – Mississippi’s resident clown Chris McDaniel (one of NYCMike’s heroes) is going to challenge Roger Wicker at the request of fake conservative Steve Bannon.

    – Trump (a moron according to Tillerson) is attacking Corker on twitter this morning. (Does he ever attack Democrats?)

    Best of all though, President Moron (Tillerson’s word) is looking to cut a deal with Chuck Schumer on healthcare. I can’t wait for the Trump Chumps to tell me anyone who opposes the Trump/Schumer healthcare bill is a RINO cuck.

    SEND A MESSAGE!

  390. Mr.Vito says:

    BONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!

  391. mnw says:

    Hawley can & will ignore Martin. Hawley is already the de facto GOP nominee.

  392. NYCmike says:

    “(according to Tillerson)”

    LOL

  393. Bitterlaw says:

    It is going to be almost 80 degrees and raining today. This is b.s. I do not live in the South. I want 60 with a light breeze in October, damn it.

  394. NYCmike says:

    “cut a deal with Schumer “

    – How? All McConnell has to do is treat that “deal” the same way he treated a bill that was passed in a previous Congress and vetoed by President Obama……but of course Robbie believes that the President is in control of Congress for some reason.

  395. Robbie says:

    Ha! Corker throwing shade at President Moron.

    Senator Bob Corker?
    @SenBobCorker

    It’s a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.

  396. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    October 8, 2017 at 10:46 am
    BONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!

    – Yeah, hitting the bong would explain why you fell for Trump’s act.

  397. Robbie says:

    NYCmike says:
    October 8, 2017 at 10:57 am
    “cut a deal with Schumer “
    – How? All McConnell has to do is treat that “deal” the same way he treated a bill that was passed in a previous Congress and vetoed by President Obama……but of course Robbie believes that the President is in control of Congress for some reason.

    – I see NYCMike stills lives in a dream world where the president is simply a figure head who has no real power. No wonder a moron like Trump was able to win. All he had to do was play on the ignorance of Tea Party primary voters.

    MUST PROTECT THE TRUMP.

  398. Robbie says:

    mnw says:
    October 8, 2017 at 10:51 am
    Hawley can & will ignore Martin. Hawley is already the de facto GOP nominee.

    – Probably, but why is low life piece of scum like Steve Bannon trying to find someone who can beat him? Does he want McCaskill to win?

  399. Mr.Vito says:

    BONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!

  400. Mr.Vito says:

    Robbie is not enjoying his civil war.

  401. Tina says:

    Corker, largely responsible for the Iran Deal.

    Untrue, per hhr.

  402. Tina says:

    Are Tillerson kelly fired yet?

  403. TrumpIsPeteWilson says:

    Fun fact. When Reagan released thousands of mentally ill people onto the streets of California, Tina was on the shortlist of people who doctors deemed too great a risk to be released.

    Reagan released her anyways.

    Now Tina’s mental drippings are like the biggest turds in the toilet that HHR has become.

  404. Tina says:

    Coree pick up the bong.

  405. Tina says:

    He has to cut deals with schumah because the r leadership is rudderless.

    But let the, open another committee hearing into muh russian.

    Paging Burr, russians bought fb ads.

    Lol

  406. Tina says:

    Corkers iran deal, his signature accomplishment being a back nencher in the senate, will be ripped up.

    Enjoy retirement. Losah.

  407. NYCmike says:

    Not sure when I said a President is “simply a fugurehead”……..I did say Congress is able to pass, or NOT PASS, a bill without input from the President, and I used the Obamacare repeal bill sent to Obama as an example.

    Does Robbie disgree with that example? If so, based on what facts?

  408. NYCmike says:

    Unfortunately, there was a NHL player who held up his fist yesterday during the anthem,and it wasn’t to have a fight with an opposing player.

  409. NYCmike says:

    “fugurehead”

    I definitely NEVER said that before!

  410. Tina says:

    Looks like tax cuts will not be passed.

    Trump “attacked” iran deal figurehead, corker.

    Actually, moore predicted a fifty fifty chance and rinos gonna rino.

  411. lisab says:

    Noah Diffenbaugh explains why heavy rains

    during a drought are

    to be expected

    for a state in the throes of climate change.”
    —————————————–

    who wrote that, george orwell or oscar wilde?

  412. Bitterlaw says:

    Mr. Vito – Thank you for the poll. I will think about while I watch the Eagles at 1:00 and whatever 4:00 games I get.

  413. Bitterlaw says:

    When are the Russia investigations going to end? I really want to know if Tina or Robbie looks like a jackass. One of them will be vindicated. The other will not.

  414. Tina says:

    Down 2.5 million and no end in sight for the National Felon League.

  415. Tina says:

    Down among all ethnic groups.

  416. Tina says:

    Donna Cahill @DTCahill
    Gotta chuckle at @SenBobCorker saying Trump is immature when he can’t make height requirement for Space Mountain ride. ? #SmallBitterMan
    9:05 AM · Oct 8, 2017

    Lol

  417. Bitterlaw says:

    Good. Maybe I can finally get some tickets. The waiting list for season tickets is 50,000. The single game tickets sold out in ten minutes.

  418. Tina says:

    Corker wanted to be SOS?

    Quittens and Corker would sell out Our interests, maybe not as fast as a her thighness type, but up there.

  419. Tina says:

    Bl, try stubhub.

  420. lisab says:

    saw blade runner

    everyone on earth is secretly a robot

    very silly movie

  421. lisab says:

    oh … spoilers

  422. Bitterlaw says:

    Tina – I don’t trust StubHub or any on-line business. If I want tickets or anything else, I want to buy whatever it is and have it my hand immediately. I do not buy anything on-line.

  423. Tina says:

    Bl, you go to the hood to get them tickets.

  424. Tina says:

    I used stun hub, completly secure and safe.

  425. Tina says:

    Stub hub*

  426. Bitterlaw says:

    Tina – And if they don’t arrive before the game, I don’t get to go to the game. Not worth the risk.

  427. Tina says:

    They arrive bl, and in some cases, i think you can pick up at the stadium,

    I used them several times without issue. I am no fan of buyimg too many things online, but found their service great, fwiw.

  428. Tgca says:

    I make numerous purchases on line for convenience, especially if it’s a product I regularly use. It’s great and saves time.

    Sometimes I try something new on line but it may not be what you expect when you receive it so there is some risk, like that man doll purchase a few weeks back. Not sure why they wouldn’t let me return it though. Hmmm…

  429. Bitterlaw says:

    A doll? Why not a dude? I thought a major selling point about being gay is you always find another gay guy.

  430. Bitterlaw says:

    Good thing I am not boycotting. Eagles up 21-0 over the Cardinals.

  431. Bitterlaw says:

    Pence walks out of Colts-49ers game after Anthem protest. The fact that both teams suck may not be the reason.

  432. Tgca says:

    Dolls don’t talk back!

  433. Tgca says:

    Sexbots are the new rage…at least in Japan. I might need to ask Wes about these things. I bet he knows.

  434. Bitterlaw says:

    Tgca- The obvious comment will not be posted.

  435. Cash Cow TM says:

    stub hub

    buh bust
    but bush
    bush but(t)
    HST Bubu

  436. Jonesy says:

    Robbie Sad

  437. lisab says:

    Robbie Sad
    —————————

    why? did something good for the united states happen today?

  438. Jonesy says:

    Double edged sword for me on Bannon. He should back off on seats like MO, but should put fire to the mettle in deep red states with RINO’s like Corker.

    He is a big reason Trump won

  439. Jonesy says:

    456. Lisa, his backstage pass at the Brokered Convention was lost in the mail.

  440. Jonesy says:

    49ers are awful and hoping to sell tickets to anti-trump hippies in SF?

    That will work

  441. Bitterlaw says:

    Giants fall to 0-5. Life is good.

    Unfortunate that Beckham, Jr. broke his leg but he is a jerk. He may be relieved to escape the rest of the season.

  442. Wes says:

    This is the first year since 1989 when I’ve watched no football. Congratulations, NFL SJWs! You’re destroying your own means of livelihood.

  443. Bitterlaw says:

    You picked a good year to boycott, Wes. The 49ers are 0-5. The NFL will be there next year if you come back.

  444. Wes says:

    I’d rather see the Niners have a good season, but honestly I don’t care so long as the players act like overgrown children. The Niners could be 5-0, and I still wouldn’t watch.

  445. Wes says:

    At least the Ninets are well on their way to fulfilling my prediction of their getting no wins till late in the season against a team that already has a playoff berth locked down.

  446. Wes says:

    Lisa, the beauty of Dick’s novel (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?) and the original Blade Runner film is that the Replicants (androids, or andys, in the novel) are near perfect at hiding among humans. To make the entire world replicants vitiates the original concept and makes William Sanderson’s scene from the first movie pointless.

  447. NYCmike says:

    Whoa, Beckham broke his leg?!?! I did not see that…..he should have signed!

  448. Robbie says:

    Fake conservative Steve Bannon expands his list of Republican Senators he wants to defeat in 2018 primaries so Democrats can gain the majority.

    If Bannon can find a way to get Dick Mourdock to run in Indiana, NYCMike would be the happiest man to walk the planet.

    SEND A MESSAGE.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/08/politics/steve-bannon-senate-races/index.html?sr=twCNNp100817steve-bannon-senate-races0526PMVODtop&CNNPolitics=Tw

  449. Tgca says:

    I saw Blade Runner. Meh! Nothing great. I kept dosing off but that’s because it’s a long movie and I went to morning matinee after only like 5 hours sleep. I like the original better. But all in all not a bad movie if you got almost 3 hours to kill.

  450. Tina says:

    ICE will have no choice but to conduct at-large arrests in local neighborhoods and at worksites, which will inevitably result in additional collateral arrests, instead of focusing on arrests at jails and prisons where transfers are safer for ICE officers and the community. ICE will also likely have to detain individuals arrested in California in detention facilities outside of the state, far from any family they may have in California.

    In response to the ca sanctuary state law

  451. lisab says:

    I saw Blade Runner. Meh! Nothing great.
    —————————————-

    i did not really see blade runner,

    i have no idea what happens in it

    is it like the notebook? gosling was in that too.

    if it is, i might go see it

  452. Bitterlaw says:

    lisab would rather watch a movie where an early 19th century English family risks everything to select the proper silver punch bowl for the ball.

  453. Tgca says:

    Uh, yeah LisaB. Blade Runner is almost identical to the Notebook. Check it out. I’ve seen both myself.

  454. NYCmike says:

    N/t

  455. Tgca says:

    Y’all know there’s been a new thread since like 1PM, riiiiiiiight?

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