Hogan Leads All Dems By Double Digits in MD

Hello out there – sorry Capitals Stanley Cup Fever has been quite a nice respite from politics of late. But there is no better time to jump right back in with a new poll from The Washington Post and The University of Maryland for my home state of Maryland in advance of our state’s primary election in about three weeks.

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 50%
Rich Madaleno (D) 40%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 51%
Rushern Baker (D) 39%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 51%
Ben Jealous (D) 39%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 51%
Valerie Ervin (D) 38%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 53%
Jim Shea (D) 35%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 54%
Krish Vignarajah (D) 35%

Larry Hogan (R-inc) 55%
Alec Ross (D) 31%

Ben Jealous 21%
Rushern Baker 16%
Vlaerie Ervin 8%
Rich Madaleno 6%
Jim Shea 4%
Krish Vignarajah 4%
Alec Ross 2%

This poll was done May 29-June 3 among 968 registered General Election voters and 532 likely primary voters.

There is supposed to be at least one other poll from Gonzales Research hitting the street pretty soon that I am aware of, not sure if they already started it or it is about to start.

Posted by Dave at 10:09 am
Filed under: General | Comments (790)

790 Responses to “Hogan Leads All Dems By Double Digits in MD”

  1. MichiganGuy says:


  2. MichiganGuy says:

    Dang it mnw

  3. MichiganGuy says:

    Oh well I’ll try again in 13 days or so. Until then I will got back to my new hangout. I found a blog that puts out a new thread everyday! What a concept.

  4. mnw says:


    Good to see you again. I was worried you’d been kidnapped by MILFs! (Moro Islamic Liberation Front).

  5. jason says:

    Oh well I’ll try again in 13 days or so. Until then I will got back to my new hangout. I found a blog that puts out a new thread everyday! What a concept.”

    Excellent, I am glad you took my advice.

  6. jason says:

    found a blog that puts out a new thread everyday! What a concept.”

    And there are blogs where the self entitled whiners who don’t understand the owner of the blog decides how many threads he/she wants to have are invited to start their own blog or go elsewhere.

    What a concept.

  7. mnw says:

    MG 4

    What is it? We need an alternate meetup site in case Dave gets sick of us & goes black.

    Some poster suggested Conservative Treehouse. It’s OK– if you enjoy lots of extended Biblical discussions & theological disputes in the comments.

  8. mnw says:

    48/50 (RAS doesn’t say where the other 2% went off to)

    Also, RAS reports: “Active duty personnel & veterans believe Trump is a stronger leader than other recent Presidents.” (Who knew Trump would be popular among THOSE groups? Shocked, I am.)

  9. jason says:

    Yes, more of this please. Multi-year, multi-million dollar campaign to promote free trade sounds great.

    Maybe the people that say “buh, buh, China” can be educated that free trade is a concept worth defending and fighting for, its not some kind of esoteric idea that can be manipulated by big labor protectionists and isolationists.

    And that in effect what tariffs translate to is a tax increase on American consumers. The more people understand its just a tax hike the less support they will have.

    “The political network backed by billionaires Charles and David Koch said Monday it’s planning a “multi-year, multi-million-dollar” campaign to promote free trade and oppose President Donald Trump’s moves to impose tariffs on billions of dollars worth of imports.

    The effort will include advertising, voter mobilization and lobbying in an attempt to “transform the way Washington and the rest of the country consider and value trade with other nations,” according to a joint statement from three Koch groups.

    “The Trump administration has taken some incredibly positive steps for the American economy, but tariffs will undercut that progress and needlessly hamstring our full economic potential,” Tim Phillips, president of the Koch-affiliated Americans for Prosperity, said in a statement. “There are better ways to negotiate trade deals than by punishing American consumers and businesses with higher costs.”

    Besides AFP, other Koch network entities involved in the project include the Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce , the hub organization for top Koch donors, and the LIBRE Initiative , which seeks to woo Latinos to conservatism.

    With a trade war brewing after Trump’s proposed tariffs on products from China and duties on steel and aluminum imports, the Koch network also released a list of trade principles and policy recommendations that its campaign will seek to advance.

    Manufacturers and business groups, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, have slammed Trump’s decision last week to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from the European Union, Canada and Mexico, warning that retaliation is likely and calling the move a tax on U.S. companies and consumers.”

  10. jason says:

    Bill Clinton “walks back” yesterday’s comments.

  11. jason says:

    “If you enjoy lots of extended Biblical discussions & theological disputes in the comments.”

    Let me waste no time getting there.

  12. jason says:

    I am sure if Dave decided to end the blog he would give us plenty of notice.

    And of course Bitter and I would form a consortium to buy it, so continuity is assured.

    We don’t have a name yet, but Two A-holes has a certain depth to it.

    New threads will be available at $50 each or three for $100.

  13. Michael says:

    I think California’s GOP is going to surprise us and end this “Blue Wave.”

  14. Chicon says:

    11 – a longer version of yesterday’s post. I’ll be curious to see those trade recommendations, and how they seek to change the unfair trade practices and theft of intellectual property. Hopefully it is more than asking them nicely to stop.

  15. Redmen4ever says:

    messaged wedding cakes:

    Same commission upheld “right” of a baker to refuse to put a hateful message on a cake and force a (traditional) Christian baker to put a pro-gay message on one.

    Supreme Court essentially ruled you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either messages on cakes is covered by the first amendment or they aren’t.

    (Even so, the majority said, if you sell cakes, you have to sell it to everybody. You can’t discriminate in the sale of standard items. It’s only in the message that the first amendment applies.)

    The contrary argument was that the first amendment holds except when people with protected status are involved. Then, people without protected status lose.

    protected status = the new first-class citizen

    not protected status = move to the back of this bus

    Only two justices joined in that argument.

  16. Chicon says:

    16 is addressing China. I don’t understand the rationale for including EU, Mexico and Canada.

  17. jason says:

    Is 20 years enough?


    A mother who pled guilty to allowing two men to rape her two daughters in exchange for cash and drugs was sentenced to 30 years, 20 years to serve and the balance on probation.

    Morgan Summerlin, 25, entered a guilty plea in early May. Her five-year-old and six-year-old daughters are now living with temporary legal guardians because their mother is in prison. They told investigators their mother allowed Richard Office, 78, to molest and rape them in his home.”

  18. Chicon says:

    19 – not even close. Perhaps I’m a bit harsh, but that’s a death penalty case in my book.

  19. jason says:

    “.. my guess based on his comments is if there were a pre-made blank cake in the bakery and they said, ok, well just take that blank cake and decorate it ourselves the baker would decline to sell it because he had made it himself and he would find it offended his religious belief that it would be used in a gay celebration.”

    Zzzzzzz…. facts not in evidence. This is NOT what happened.

    “Guesses” are one thing, fact another.

  20. jason says:

    I don’t know about the death penalty but I don’t think someone that depraved should ever be let out.

  21. jason says:

    Not the even for $1 million it would have been ok, but she only got $200.

  22. jason says:

    Not that… geezuz…more coffee.

  23. jason says:

    How much self esteem can you grow up with knowing your mother rented you out for $100 when your were 6 to be raped by a 78-year old scumbag?

  24. Chicon says:

    Well, I could take death off the table if the mother was completely wacked because of a drug problem. Life in that case.

  25. Chicon says:

    Of course, if the drug-induced fog ever lifts, she’s likely to be so burdened by guilt she’ll want death.

  26. Chicon says:

    Thoughts on the Eagles White House visit being cancelled?

    For me, Trump has scored the points he’s gonna score on the anthem issue. Time to zip it in my book. That said, the cancellation was smart if only a handful were going to be there. Robbie’s friends at the MSM would have loved that.

  27. BRENT says:

    TRUMP was right to cancel the eagles trip to the white house,msm’s would have been pulling out obama films showing the crowd of players vs trump with only a few players

  28. jason says:

    Hey, Brent, has Trump ever been wrong on anything?

  29. jason says:

    I think Trump missed a good opportunity to declare victory and shut up.

    The new NFL anthem policy is certainly a win for him, but he just can’t let it go and the Eagles thing is an unnecessary escalation.

    That being said, it’s not a big deal either way.

  30. mnw says:

    Chicon 29

    I agree. I’veI changed my mind. First report was that only 3 would NOT attend. Later reports were that only a few WOULD attend. Assuming there would only have been a handful of players going, then I now agree with Trump’s preemptive strike– just cancel the event.

  31. jason says:

    Just read Chicon’s post after I posted mine.

    I could have just agreed with his and saved time and had a an extra pork chop before my wife put them away.

  32. lisab says:

    As FBI director in 2002, Special Counsel Robert Mueller directed his agents to oppose the pardons of four wrongfully imprisoned men because exculpatory evidence was merely “fodder for cross-examination,” newly revealed FBI documents show.

    Four years later, the four men, or their estates, were awarded $102 million by a federal judge in Boston for their wrongful decades-long imprisonment due to FBI misconduct.

    Mueller ordered the Boston FBI office to answer a request to him from the Massachusetts Advisory Board of Pardons for an “official version” of the imprisonment of the four men for a gangland murder in Chelsea MA in March 1965.

    The four men – Louie Greco, Henry Tameleo, Peter Limone and Joe Salvati – were convicted in state court in Boston of murdering Edward “Teddy” Deegan, a small-time hoodlum, in an alley during a bank burglary.

  33. jason says:

    Kate Spade is dead.

    No, I never heard of her but she sold her handbag company for over $2 billion.

  34. dblaikie says:

    I am tired about this debate over wedding cakes! Here is how it is:
    1. A gay couple goes into a bakery to buy a wedding cake. The baker says he won’t decorate such a cake because of his religious morals.

    2. If the gay couple is offended they can go to their facebook page and post that the baker wouldn’t decorate a cake for their wedding thus telling all their friends who may tell their friends.

    The baker still has the right to make any cake he wants.

    3. The gay couple still angry take a page advertisement in the local paper telling their story. Everyone reads it in the community.

    The baker still has the right to make or not make any cake he wants.

    4. Still angry the couple organize a peaceful protest outside the bakery.

    The baker still has the right to make or not make any cake he wants.

    5. The baker’s wife is swayed by the couple and she decides the baker is a gay bashing racist and files for divorce.

    The baker still has the right to make or not make any cake he wants.

    6. The town won’t tolerate a gay bashing racist. He goes bankrupt.

    The baker moves to a new town where he can make or not make any cake he wants.

    At the end both the gay couple and the baker have correctly used their right of freedom of religion and their right to freedom of speech and assembly.

    Can we move on?

  35. mnw says:


    That’s interesting. I had never heard about that.

    On another topic, I have a free clue for the Starbucks dude: the DEMs will never nominate an old white male who starts off by saying, “How are we going to pay for all these things the left wants?” Wrong party, dude!

    I’m very skeptical that the DEMs will ever again nominate a WM over the age of 60 actually. Period.

  36. jason says:

    16 is addressing China. I don’t understand the rationale for including EU, Mexico and Canada.”

    The rationale is that its the AFL-CIO’s agenda.

    They want complete protectionism and isolationism and you can’t do that with just China.

  37. mnw says:

    The Turtle has announced that there won’t be an August recess.

    As if Heller wasn’t already in deep zh*t.

  38. NYCmike says:

    Come Heller or high water, he will be re-elected.

    You heard it here first.

  39. jason says:

    Yeah, I think dblaikie has summarized it well.

    The baker still has the right to make or not make any cake he wants.

    I like it.

  40. jason says:

    Come Heller or high water…

    Pretty good, is it original?

    Normally when NYC writes something original its not good, and when he writes something good its not original.

  41. jason says:

    Paul Krugman wants to have a “serious discussion” with conservative intellectuals, but can’t find any.

    Huh, Paul, why would any conservative intellectual want to talk to you?

    “It really does look like ‘President Donald Trump’ and markets are plunging. If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is ‘never’,” Krugman wrote at the time.”

  42. DW says:

    New Roanoke College Poll for VA Senate.

    Good news is Kaine is polling an abysmal 45 or 44 percent, but bad news is none of the GOP candidate could get higher than 33%.

    Its what I said before, Kaine is very beatable against a quality candidate.

  43. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    I always wondered what happened to FOX NEWS’ “Campaign” Carl Cameron.
    He has popped up at Think Progress(a very Liberal group) and is a Russia Collusion Truther!

  44. Tgca says:


    Oh, you’re tired of the debate over cakes so it’s no longer an important issue and it’s trivial because it doesn’t touch your lil protected world? So let’s all discuss something else.

    Are you also tired of the debate of AA killed daily in the inner city? Ah, they’re lack so no big deal I guess.

    What about the debate over women routinely beat, raped, and abused by their husbands or boyfriends in the US? Yeah, they probably deserved it for being with such losers to begin with, eh.

    Are you tired of the debate of safe environment for kids with druggie and abusive parents? I guess the boys will get over the beatings and the girls will get over the rape sooner or later so it’s no big deal?

    Anything else you’re tired of? Let’s just keep those tax cuts coming and the economy humming along. Discrimination, beatings, rape, abuse are just not a big deal when you think about it unless of course it happens to someone in your family. Oh, then it’s different I guess.

    As someone who grew up being abused and discriminated for being both Latin and gay, it’s ok, I’m used to folks like you. I forgive your ignorance and coldness towards others because clearly you can’t comprehend the indignity of being treated as a 2nd class citizen. Hopefully no one will ever treat your children or wife or siblings the way some of us are treated everyday in society because we are different in ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

  45. jason says:

    Tgca, I am tired of you mis-representing what the issue was and what the decision was.

    You are taking a lot of license and doing a lot of “guessing” both on the motives of the baker and what the decision was.

    If you want to play victim here that’s fine, but this has nothing to do with kind of abuse and discrimination you may have suffered. And this decision is certainly no endorsement of any kind of discrimination.

    None, nada, zilch.

  46. jason says:

    I don’t believe dblaikie is being “cold” and I don’t think he is endorsing any kind of discrimination.

  47. NYCmike says:

    “Normally when NYC writes something original its not good, and when he writes something good its not original.”

    -Is this like a Catch-44?

  48. mnw says:


    Memo to self: Never consult Krugman for investment advice. I sure do hope HE followed his own advice, however.


    Huh. I always thought Campaign Carl was one of us.

  49. Tgca says:


    …and I get tired of the cavalier attitude by many here if it happens to gays it’s no big deal and they should just get over it. …or maybe I should not come to HHR because I’m in the minority (as has been suggested by some in the past). I know many gays are not good people and milk sympathy where they can or cause trouble but I am not one of them and I do not prescribe to group think of all things gay.

    …and please don’t tell me what myself and others experienced as gay people over the years with the derogatory comments and ill wishes by others in everyday life. I can sit here for hours and tell you stories that I had to endure in school, work, church, family settings regarding being gay, none of them ever positive even to this day where I was mocked at work last year by a male behind my back regarding an inappropriate sexual joke he shared with others about me.

    It has challenged me for years to bite my tongue and say to myself folks don’t mean it or don’t understand it so don’t make enemies and look for the good in them. I’ve actually had people tell me to my face how young friends who died of AIDS deserved it or brought it on themselves…or if someone was beaten how they brought it on themselves the way they acted or dressed. How about being told I should wear a wedding ring and make people think I’m married to get a job or promotion or fit in. The list goes on and on.

    Do most people even understand why June 26, 2015 meant a lot to many people? I could relate when Obama was elected POTUS while I watched on TV while many openly wept, not because of him as a person but to many, it was a long time in the making to see one of their own be elected as if for that moment it washed away or the pains and sins of the past. I will never understand what it’s like to be black but I do understand what it means to be gay even in spite of June 26, 2015 for that short moment making you think you were finally normal and had some sort of legitimacy only to shake it off and know you’re really still not legitimate to many.

    Like it or not, if this baker had done this to a Jew, woman, or AA people would express their outrage that it’s discrimination. I believe in freedom of speech and especially religion but that does not give one the right to twist and create an interpretation that does not generally exist. In my view, he is no different than the radical Islamist who believes women are 2nd class citizens and he should not have to cater to them. He distorts the Bible for his purpose and plays victim when he is found to be violating laws.

    If you’re uncomfortable with my views on this you can ignore my posts or gather a petition to ask me not to post here anymore and I will respect the majority view. But please don’t tell me how I should feel about something and insinuate it’s no big deal. I have lived with slights for being gay for decades and then told how abnormal or perverted I am for something I was born with even though I’ve never behaved indecently. This view of gays is still quite alive and present regardless of the laws out there, especially among people who are strongly religious…and by the way tell me I can’t be religious because of my behavior.

  50. Wes says:

    jason says:
    June 5, 2018 at 11:19 am
    Is 20 years enough?


    A mother who pled guilty to allowing two men to rape her two daughters in exchange for cash and drugs was sentenced to 30 years, 20 years to serve and the balance on probation.

    Morgan Summerlin, 25, entered a guilty plea in early May. Her five-year-old and six-year-old daughters are now living with temporary legal guardians because their mother is in prison. They told investigators their mother allowed Richard Office, 78, to molest and rape them in his home.”

    A similar thing happened to a friend of mine. When she was 15, her mother got her addicted to heroin and turned her into a white slave. I’ve never met her mom, but I’ve told her and my friend both that’s a good thing for that bitch’s continued ability to breathe.

  51. Chicon says:

    Tgca continues to state his case well. I appreciate the pov.

  52. Wes says:

    DW says:
    June 5, 2018 at 2:22 pm
    New Roanoke College Poll for VA Senate.

    Good news is Kaine is polling an abysmal 45 or 44 percent, but bad news is none of the GOP candidate could get higher than 33%.

    Its what I said before, Kaine is very beatable against a quality candidate.

    That’s why I have Kaine as a Likely D Hold rather than a Solid D Hold, DW. Freitas can beat him, but I doubt he’ll have enough resources to actually do so.

  53. CG says:

    I think it’s unfortunate if TGCA has been mistreated by people. Nobody deserves abuse. It looks like a lot of his joking around on here about his being gay or being flirtatious with others is probably a defense mechanism.

    Overall though, this seems to be a pretty cut and dry issue. If somebody does not want to decorate a cake a certain way because of their religious or personal convictions, they should not have to. If TGCA owned a cake shop and someone wanted him to make an anti-gay cake, he should have the right to refuse. I think it is pretty clear that any same sex couple wishing to get married can more than easily find a place to make them a cake, without the need to target or torment someone else in the process.

  54. Mr.Vito says:

    “Tgca continues to state his case well.”

    I dunno. Comparing this guy to a radical islamist is exactly the kind of thing for which Kennedy condemned the commission in the decision.

  55. GF says:

    I for one do not wish for TGCA to depart; it would be a loss for our community. I also empathize greatly with his position on the question at hand (dare I say even sympathize?).

    That said, the only reason I diverge from there is that a mere cake is not akin to accommodations or sustenance, the denial of which could potentially seriously imperil one who is denied either (such as a weary traveler). Personally, I think the baker is a fool for not selling the damned cake; in at least one other case I read about (I think it may have been that pizza place vice a bakery, but the same principle applies), the gay customer knew the establishment was religiously oriented but still went in anyhow and made a scene just to gin up a cause celebre. In that instance, the owner should have just refused service to a rude customer and not gone down the whole religious freedom angle, but it is what it is. The worst thing that comes out of a cake not being sold is hurt feelings, plain and simple. And while I don’t approve of conduct that needlessly offends others, it’s just that and nothing more. A ruling could easily be drawn to limit such denials of service to broadly unimportant commodities and still preserve the spirit of prior rulings demanding that essential services and property NOT be subject to discriminatory actions and/or covenants.

    But SCOTUS time and again shies away from such rulings. So be it.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to vote and prop up what remains of the feckless GOP in my decrepit state.

  56. Wes says:

    1) The baker discriminated against the gay couple.

    2) He should have that right.

    As Bitterlaw would say, both can be true.

  57. CG says:

    Interesting discussion, especially for TGCA as an avowed and unapologetic Trump supporter, considering the fact that “F.. Your Feelings” is pretty much an unofficial Trump campaign slogan.

    People who love Trump have it on t shirts, hats, bumper stickers, personal tattoos, etc.

    Clearly, not everyone feels the same way about the concept though.

  58. Greymarch says:

    The dems will maul the GOP in the CA primaries tonight (ugh), so those arent worth watching. What primaries, besides CA, should we watch tonight?

  59. mnw says:

    Polling news from the end of the last thread:

    NJ SEN:

    Menendez (D-inc.) +4 on GOP opponent, per Farleigh-Dickinson U.

    Kinda suhprizin’– time for the ole switcheroo yet?

  60. Chicon says:

    44 – Yes, Mr. Krugman, intellectual dishonesty and laziness only exist on the right…He’s a non-serious, intellectually vapid dolt.

  61. Mr.Vito says:

    “I don’t approve of conduct that needlessly offends others”

    Kennedy called them his sincerely held religious beliefs, but to each his own.

  62. mnw says:


    I fear VGK have fallen, & they can’t get up.

  63. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    52. Tgca, in order to respond to your post, I am going to reveal some personal information about myself.

    I live in a same-sex relationship. My partner is originally from Brazil, and came to the U.S. to serve in the U.S. military. I spend a lot of time in Utah, and have many friends who are Mormons and rednecks. We get along well because we take a live and let live attitude, and respect each others privacy. Frankly our personal lives are nobody’s business. Likewise, if someone has strong religious feelings against gays, that is their right. Its a matter of people with differing opinions exercising mutual respect.

    My response to the baker refusing to prepare the cake for the same sex marriage would have been to tell him I disagree with his decision, but respect it. It would have ended there. Except I might have taken up his offer to buy other items from time to time. My hunch is we would have become good friends.

  64. Chicon says:

    57 – Vito, this is a topic that he is invested in. I think he’s expressed his pov; which doesn’t mean I think it is without holes or is perfectly constructed. But cases get to the Supreme Court because they are difficult issues, and I respect thE passion.

  65. Mr.Vito says:

    67 I am not impressed by passion these days, especially when it is used to demean other opinions. That is a leftist thing and people tune out.

    I think SDC is much more likely to get places with people and change their opinions than cramming government down their throats.

  66. Wes says:

    jason says:
    June 5, 2018 at 12:40 pm
    Hey, Brent, has Trump ever been wrong on anything?

    Just remember, Jason, Brent called anyone who thought Jones could top 44% against Moore “nuts.”

  67. Wes says:

    I don’t know if anyone has posted this, but Mark “Fluke” Begich is going kamikaze in Alaska and intends to run for Governor as a Dem. This would likely split Walker’s vote and increase the chance a Republican can win.

  68. CG says:

    Mead Treadwell, jason’s old friend, also jumped into the race for Governor on the Republican side and is favored to be the nominee.

  69. Chicon says:

    Mnw, it appears so. And they’re not wearing the Clapper (not to be confused with James Clapper)…

    I’m surprised.

  70. Wes says:

    Surely Republicans can do better than Retread Treadwell. He was such a poor candidate Joe Miller ran ahead of him. There must be a better Alaska Republican.

  71. NYCmike says:

    “There must be a better Alaska Republican.”

    -You betcha!

  72. Wes says:

    I said a Republican, not a solipsistic reality star.

  73. CG says:

    Funny, I thought Republicans were all into solipsistic reality stars in high office these days..

  74. Mr.Vito says:

    Trump is too busy to run for Gov of AK…

  75. Wes says:

    Rocky de la Fuente is probably available amid his 75 other current bids for office in various states.

  76. dblaikie says:

    My goodness, I didn’t mean to generate such a reaction. Let me be clear! The baker under the right of religious freedom can refuse to bake a stupid cake if he honestly feels that goes against his conscience. I am not advocating that I agree with his views.

    But my point is that the best way to answer religious convictions that you believe are wrong is through your right of free speech and your freedom of assembly. In my little post I believe that in my scenario the baker ended up divorced with his business bankrupt and moving to a new place. Hardly an endorsement of his religious convictions.

  77. Chicon says:

    80 – we know it’s a stunt. Thanks for the valuable contribution.

  78. CG says:

    Why do you oppose it?

  79. Tgca says:

    Sorry but it’s been a particularly hard day and I’ve been lying in bed most of it so I guess I can blame my emotional outbursts on my meds like Roseanne Barr or maybe I’m just going through the change. 🙂

    For the most part, I am not against religious expression, as I am a very religious person myself. I am a devout believer and pray daily for help, wisdom, guidance, and humility and sometimes just to argue with my Lord because I don’t understand things. I’m not always good at turning the other cheek (…and no Bitter, it’s not what you think I mean) and I probably need more help than others to forgive at times but it was not until I read the full decision and realized some of the other facts that I had not previously known about this case that I got annoyed. I do believe this baker is extreme in his view of the Bible because I read the Bible and see nothing in it that states the religious flock needs to take up against gays as part of being a good Christian. I see more of a call for intolerance of women in the Bible than any group but as Jesus taught us in his writings, he does not advocate a lot of the Old Testament views that many folks generally cling on to rationalize their behavior.

    That is my beef here! Why is it ok for this baker to apply his interpretations to gays and most feel it’s no big deal but if someone applied those same interpretations from the Bible to women, there would be an uproar. Probably because most of us have women closer in our lives than gays who probably make up 5% to 7% of the population compared to 50% for women. So maybe I did not articulate it well but this was all about comparison for me. Is the baker a horrible person? Absolutely not, but clearly he has taken a position that I believe is extreme and not important to many because it impacts a small percentage of the population so it’s basically irrelevant to most except for those impacted by it most.

    Anyways, I believe SCOTUS did the right thing in this case because one extreme view should not excuse other extreme views, IMO, especially when the Gubermint is involved. I don’t ever want the Gubermint telling us that they will not even listen to a viewpoint because religion is not important or real. So no matter how distasteful I find the bakers interpretation, I am glad SCOTUS came down on the side it did in this case to discourage the lack of nuetrality against religion.

    My faith has helped me through many difficult times and for that, I will always be grateful so I don’t want people in authority to basically state the practice of faith is something to be maligned or cast aside as irrelevant.

    Finally, I am not overly sensitive and gay jokes and banter do not offend me. God you should hear some of the barbs I’ve traded with friends of color over the years. I try to look what is in people’s heart, that is why when someone teases me I do not mind and I would never ask anyone here to take special care as to not offend me when that is not their intent. Clearly, I don’t provide that same deference to a true bigot whose words are meant to sting purposely. There are some truths to all stereotypes so I don’t mind the jokes and banters just as I hope folks don’t mind mine. I banter often with others different than me, and especially with guys, as this can be a form of male bonding (…again, not what you’re thinking Bitter).

    So in the end, I hope people understand that sometimes what is not a big deal to you might be a big deal to others and illicit a response you don’t expect or like.

    I have been here at HHR for something like 16 years or however long it’s been around and though I have never met anyone here, I feel I have gotten to know many and really shared in a small part of their lives, more so than my friends at times. For that I am grateful because I value and enjoy those with different experiences than mine. Now I’ve met a few pr*cks here too but we won’t dwell on those as they are far and few between. 🙂

    Imagine if there were no internet service or HHR. Friendships and fondness can come from the oddest situations.

    Ok. Time for another pill. 🙂

  80. Chicon says:

    I’m sure you’ll find someone else to engage on that.

  81. mnw says:

    Chicon 81

    Trump has a lameduck RINO problem alright, but… it will soon disappear… all by itself!

  82. CG says:

    TGCA, I wish you good health.

    I am not sure what the point you are making about women is though. What specific cake would cause an issue?

    I think if a baker was asked to decorate a vagina cake or a Time for Hillary cake, they should have the right to refuse. Lots of bakeries will take their business and their money.

    How is baker not decorating a wedding cake a specific way actually injuring somebody? Someone else will certainly do it. Where is the threat to someone’s civil rights?

  83. CG says:

    Trumpists seem to be stating that if Trump wants tariffs, he should get his tariffs, not because they are a good idea, but because… Trump. I get it.

  84. mnw says:


    We all like you & want you to live & be well!

  85. CG says:

    Dave W,

    I will be very happy for you if the Capitals win the Cup. I know you have been waiting for a long time to see that particular parade down Constitution Avenue.

    A 3-1 lead is probably scary though to die-hard fans of the team.

  86. janz says:

    “I think California’s GOP is going to surprise us and end this “Blue Wave.”

    That’s what I’ve been hoping for — a surprise turnout for more conservative politicians. Perhaps some of the indies here, comprising almost a bigger voting block than republicans, will become part of a group who are sick and tired of the crazy politics in CA. I have yet to vote, but will be walking down to do so later in the afternoon.

  87. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    87. “Trumpists seem to be stating that if Trump wants tariffs, he should get his tariffs, not because they are a good idea, but because… Trump. I get it.”

    Trump economic policies seem to be working very well. Trump is using the threat of tariffs to obtain free trade — which does not exist now. The failed Clinton/Bush/Obama globalist policies are over.

    “The U.S. dethroned Hong Kong to retake first place among the world’s most competitive economies, thanks to faster economic growth and a supportive atmosphere for scientific and technological innovation, according to annual rankings by the Switzerland-based IMD World Competitiveness Center. The U.S., which reclaimed the No. 1 spot for the first time since 2015, scored especially well in international investment, domestic economy and scientific infrastructure sub-categories while earning below-average marks in public finance and prices. The renewed top ranking aligns with the positive U.S. growth narrative over the past year. Growth averaged 2.9 percent in the four quarters through March, versus 2 percent in the prior period.”

  88. Tgca says:

    86 CG

    Funny. I can’t believe you used the word vagina with a gay man. I have friends that would cringe. 🙂

    Seriously though my point on women is that I believe, with respect to the Bible, women are often portrayed in a more negative, subservient, unimportant manner and often people use that in their extreme religious views to treat women lesser than men. You see that a lot in certain cultures, whether inside or outside the US, and extreme views by religious zealots. So my point is that if the baker refused to provide a service to women based on his religious interpretation that they are lesser than him (e.g. do not believe women should be able to drive, shop, be in public by themselves, engage in commerce, etc) that there would be an uproar and people would argue his religious beliefs should not impose on women’s basic rights.

    I must really not be explaining myself well today but that’s my analogy regarding women.

  89. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “China Offers to Buy Nearly $70 Billion of U.S. Products to Fend Off Trade Tariffs
    Beijing says purchase hinges on whether Trump imposes threatened tariffs.”

  90. Tina says:

    Has Fuhrer Mulehead indicted the Russians that hacked the dnc?

  91. Tina says:

    Corker should first work on a new Iran deal.

    Notice how the darts do not want the Iran deal 2.o when it comes to NK.

    However, it was truly dumb Iran deal lead by the jebots Kerry who should be investigated for doing that deal,

  92. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    More economic good news because of Trump:

    “Combined with the tightening U.S.-China oil link, the emerging U.S.-China gas link is sure to be one of the main energy stories of the next decade. Given China’s huge need for incremental supplies of oil and gas, our rising ability to export both will put us back in the geopolitical and economic driver’s seat. And it’s a way to offset the wide trade imbalances between the two countries, climbing to a record gap of $375.2 billion in China’s favor last year. In May, the “U.S. and China recently agreed to a major LNG trade deal, which could generate $26 billion annually for America.”

  93. Tina says:

    No doubt the economy is booming.

  94. Tina says:

    Priestaps 7 hour testimony has Piglosi unhinged.

  95. Tina says:

    Chad Pergram
    Colleague Catherine Herridge rpts a mbrs familiar w/Hse closed-door i-view w/FBI espionage chief Bill Priestap has been cooperative. But says FBI Agent Strzok played an more central role than previously known in Clinton email/Russia investigations beyond Strzok/Page text messages


  96. Diamond Jim says:


  97. Tina says:

    Replacing Jeff Sessions would be chaos. But after Mueller does his job, then I think if he wants a different attorney general it would be easier to do…. I think Rosenstein is conflicted … you can’t be a witness and oversee the investigation.”

    Goober has spoken.

    The dam is breaking.

  98. Tina says:


    McCabe wants immunity in order to testify before grasselys committee. Otherwise,me may plead the 5th.

  99. Chicon says:

    102 – smart move by him, Tina, for the same reason most lawyers say Trump would be a fool to talk to Mueller.

  100. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    98. “Priestaps 7 hour testimony has Piglosi unhinged.”

    How can you tell the difference when Pelosi is hinged or unhinged? Is unhinged any improvement?

  101. Chicon says:

    104 – lol, they are both marked by a wild-eyed stare and cognitive slippage.

  102. Tgca says:

    66 SDC

    OMG! I missed your post. You’re in a same sex relationship? That’s deplorable!!! Just kidding. I did not know that. Not sure if that has come up before here. Not sure if you’re male or female either but I’m also glad it has worked out for you with friends and acquaintances. I generally agree and ignore what most say as long as it is not personally directed at me but there is a time and place to take a position on issues and advocate for them as well, or otherwise there would be no progress and we would still live in the shadows. Without some of the fights people have taken to the courts over the years, there would be no gay marriage, adoption rights, hospital visitation rights, partner healthcare benefits, life insurance benefits, joint property ownership, etc.. These are important things that came about because people pushed hard for them as they did not happen automatically, and in the processed went through a lot.

    But I agree one should not fight every battle or get upset over every issue. But depending on where you live, we must be aware there are those that have scorn and in some cases vile hatred for you based of your sexual orientation.

    A few years back, I worked at a very large Fortune 200 Company where one vile co-worker referred to me and 2 other guys as F*gs to a bunch of younger gents they were out having drinks with on a work social event. Of course, we were told of this by those in attendance, especially since one of the guys worked for me. It turns out my boss was at the event and in attendance when these derogatory comments were being made and did or said nothing. This was because the guy that said it was a personal close friend he hired from his old company. On another occasion, this same bigot made derogatory comments about blacks that questioned their work ethic and intellect and how that was just a fact that could not be denied. I was aghast at this vile ignorance. Again, my boss was present and did nothing. This got to HR and they swept it under the rug and sent him to a 2 hour sensitivity training but then he got a promotion like 2 months later that my boss was pushing. The HR rep was a nice little southern women who actually refused to investigate the F*g comment and stated it was just hearsay even though a number of people were present and substantiated the comment. So it depends where you work and who’s got your back too. This behavior is often more prevalent then people think so sometimes you suck it up and say nothing and other times you fight it.

  103. mnw says:

    Tina 102

    The thought of McCabe “taking the Fifth” before a watching nation is beyond orgasmic.

  104. mnw says:

    P.S. They’ll give him immunity the same day I get the Rhett Butler role in the GWTW sequel.

  105. Bitterlaw says:

    As Bitterlaw would say, both can be true.

    WTF. I was all ready to disagree with Wes and he does this? Well played, sir. Well played.

  106. Bitterlaw says:

    Personally. I am glad that SD and Tgca and Michael post here. If they did not, we would be stuck with lisab as the only expert on gay men. Which is an odd expertise for a straight married woman but she did live in Provincetown so I guess it makes sense.

  107. Tina says:

    There would be hell to pay, if McCabe got immunity.

  108. Tina says:

    Nick Short ?? Retweeted
    Nick Short ??
    Nick Short ??
    Mar 17
    Andrew McCabe has “said over and over again, if I go down, I’m taking everybody else with me.” h/t @SaraCarterDC

    Buckle up!
    Embedded video

    Buckle up, beotches.

  109. Mr.Vito says:

    Looks like April Ryan got caught tweeting fake news again…

  110. Bitterlaw says:

    Don’t worry, Tgca. The A-holes will always be behind you. Just not sure if we are ready to be in front of you.


    Too much?

  111. mnw says:

    RE: Ellison & AG race

    The Wise Men say the 2 GOP contenders for the GOP nomination for MN AG are hopeless losers.

    I guess you folks know that the woman who is likely to replace Ellison in Congress is even worse news than he is. Stick it to the man!

  112. Tina says:

    Leave no a hole behind.

  113. Bitterlaw says:

    Tina telling jokes? Damn. HHR is off the hizzy tonight.

  114. Tina says:

    Actually, I was going to rino hunt.

    If grasselys does a deal with McCabe.

  115. Tina says:

    Cuck a doodle doo

    Larry Schweikart Retweeted
    Donald J. Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Wow, Strzok-Page, the incompetent & corrupt FBI lovers, have texts referring to a counter-intelligence operation into the Trump Campaign dating way back to December, 2015. SPYGATE is in full force! Is the Mainstream Media interested yet? Big stuff!

  116. Brandon says:

    Seth freaking Grossman is currently leading the primary.

  117. GPO says:

    finally the unraveling is starting

  118. Bitterlaw says:

    I am still waiting for Seth Grossman to sue me.

  119. Cash Cow TM says:

    Time for a re-arrange the letters “wordy” poem:

    How the whole slow owl
    in his low hole
    howls ‘Who, who, who’.
    [..that’s Cow Haiku..]

  120. Bitterlaw says:

    Please tell me that the Moore I saw leading a GOP primary in Alabama is not that Moore. Please.

  121. Bitterlaw says:

    Thankfully, it is a different Moore.

  122. Tgca says:


    Why would a Hollywood B grade director be suing Bitter? Or did I got the wrong Seth Grossman and it’s the Psychotherapist from Cooper City FL that is looking to sue Bitter. Hmmm…

  123. Bitterlaw says:

    It was Seth Grossman the NJ Deadender pol. I said he sucked as a candidate a few years ago. A poster (I can’t remember which one) said that if I didn’t stop Grossman would sue me.

  124. lisab says:

    “i luv the mee too movement

    it is a great place to meet chicks


    bill clinton on good morning america

  125. Tina says:

    If you mention Moore, we her more jebots.

  126. Chicon says:

    Any update on the Blue Wave?

  127. jason says:

    Trump is using the threat of tariffs to obtain free trade”


    Is that like screwing for virginity?

    Trump has as much interest in free trade as his AFL-CIO ally Richard Trumka: zero.

  128. Tina says:

    You get all our oconus lures approved?”

    Has the rooster commented on this?

    Does he know what it means?

  129. jason says:

    Brandon is alive?

    His posts are rarer than rocking horse turds.

  130. Tina says:

    Why would Pete the cheat make this statement via text to the mistress in 2015?

  131. Tina says:

    Hint rooster

    Oculun lures means spies aka double agents.

    See papodope or carter page, an fbi asset.

  132. jason says:

    I think Tgca is taking too many pain killers, I don’t think the disagreements with his take on the baker issue merit such lengthy responses.

    I would probably understand a simple GFY better, but then I’m an A-hole.

    In any case, I certainly want him to continue posting here.

  133. Tina says:

    04/10/16 – Page to Stzrok:
    You are a part of this and that’s not going to change. But I think
    you have every right to be angry and frustrated about being left
    out of the loop on your investigation, especially when you’re going
    to be left holding the bag.

    I like the mistress. She is spook like, even though she is a lawyah,

  134. mnw says:


    Damn if I know. I’ll have to wait for The Wise Men to explain it to me tomorrow.

    I note that Wes’ heartthrob Nom won tonite– whatever it is she’s running for.

    DEMs’ flipped an open state senate seat* in a special election in MO. Once upon a time, this would’ve been BIG NEWS!… but we have REAL elections now.

    *in Clay County. “He was born one day in the County of Clay, of a sad and mournful race…” Guess who I am?

  135. mnw says:

    sb “Noem” Spellcheck strikes again.

  136. jason says:

    If grasselys does a deal with McCabe.”

    Chuck Grassley has been promoted to RINO too?

    Nobody is safe, except for the 8000 lb RINO in the middle of the room.

  137. Phil says:


    I love Kristi as well. She will make a great governor and future VP.

  138. jason says:

    Cox is leading in CA governor race with 0% reporting.

    All the vote is from Fresno and San Bernadino

    Cox (R) 109k
    Newsom (D) 74k
    Allen (R) 45k

  139. mnw says:

    I know RINOs, sir, and he is NO RINO!

    I think he was born in a manger.

  140. Tina says:

    Gave money to cox and Nunes.

    But my congressperson is Piglosi.

  141. Tina says:

    Nah only the rooster is not safe.

    Feathers everywhere.

  142. Tina says:

    The mistress does deserve an award of some kind,

    She turned against a McCabe, who is then fired.

    She tells Pete the chest that he will be caught holding the bag.

  143. Tina says:

    Comeys honeys are melting down.

    Looks like the it report will come really soon.

    I am thinking as trump departs for Singapore to meet Mentally Ill, but a chance for it to hit tomorrow.

  144. jason says:

    Cox is running well in R counties and coming in second in a lot of Dem counties.

    Villaraigosa might need a huge win in LA county to come in second.

  145. Hugh says:

    92. Rarely do I or never do I disagree with you but for the that time in history I think the Bible holds women in very high regard.

  146. Chicon says:

    Feinstein is 84. Good chance that crackpot Gavin will get to name his replacement.

  147. Chicon says:

    Her replacement

  148. mnw says:

    The Wise Men are shutting down for the night. They like Cox’ chances of being in the top 2.

  149. jason says:

    Feinstein is 84. Good chance that crackpot Gavin will get to name his replacement.”

    Feinstein is a her. Theoretically anyway.

  150. jason says:

    Villaraigosa is not doing well in LA county either.

  151. dblaikie says:

    Cox is going to finish 2nd. There a couple of districts where dems. might be shut out — CA 48 for example. It seems that dem. turnout in the golden state is not what the party hoped for. The blue wave is changing color.

  152. Tgca says:

    I am so glad I don’t live in CA anymore. Newsom was my district supervisor in San Francisco. I had high hopes for him at 1st because he ran as a moderate and the best you could expect in San Francisco. But he turned out to be scum and moved further left and was deep into special interests.

    This is also the guy who kept his campaign manager working late in the evenings while he was screwing his wife.

    He also pandered to the gay community and gave them false hope when he starting issuing marriage licenses full well knowing it was illegal and would be overturned by the courts and these married couples realized they had no real marriage rights shortly thereafter. Unfortunately, many in the gay community fell for this ploy.

    On top of that, he embarrassed himself and made a mockery of the Mayors office with his drinking binges that forced him into treatment and AA. If I truly believed he was a decent fella who had some difficulty, I would wish him well but I think he was nothing more than an opportunist in the pockets of deep interests.

    …and my favorite was when he declared that WiFi access was a civil rights issue.

    But hey, that’s San Francisco for you. Just glad I’m not there anymore. Tina has my sympathies

  153. Tgca says:

    I’m very surprised that very heavily Latino CA did not give Villaraigsa more of a chance. He seemed more a better fit than Newsom but again, northern CA politicians seem to dominate the high offices in CA.

  154. Tgca says:

    150 Hugh

    I think there are many passages that do hold women in esteem but what I meant is that often those that use the Bible as an excuse for their personal extremism, they tend to use them most to hold down women. Perhaps because of male insecurities, women make easier victims.

    This has been throughout history in both Christianity and Islam. Not so sure about Judaism, as I’ve not read much there but I used to work with Hasidic community in NYC a long time ago and women were always kept separate from the men, and expected to defer to them in social settings. But that may have been less about deference and more social protocol, even though some others would tell me women were expected to be seen and not heard. But again, not sure in that one.

  155. Tgca says:

    137 Jason

    It’s not the painkillers I think but the muscle spasm medication. I can get a bit anxious from the latter. But I’d rather be anxious than twitching in pain.

    It’s hard to lie in bed and do cryptograms, word searches, and soduko when you’re twitching. Posting at HHR is more entertaining.

  156. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The results I am seeing in California do not indicate any sort of blue waive. The results are what would be expected. A lot of Republican are doing well in contested congressional seats. Am a bit worried about the 49th district in northern San Diego/Orange County.

    With 39% of the vote in, Newsom only has 34%, which is pretty poor in heavily Democratic California for a clear front runner. Am surprised Cox has 26%; some polling had him in the teens. Newsom will win the general, but it may not be overwhelming

    In San Diego County, Cox is leading Newsom: 32.71% to 31.54%. The Soros backed candidate for county district attorney is losing by almost 2 to 1; 64% for the Republican, 36% for Democrat. Two city council Republican city council members seeking re-election in City of San Diego are doing better than I would have expected, one has over 61% of the vote. His name is Chris Cate, he is of Filipino ancestry, and may be the Republican rising star in San Diego. As have said before, Asians in San Diego vote Republican by the same margin as Anglos.

  157. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    158. “I’m very surprised that very heavily Latino CA did not give Villaraigsa more of a chance. He seemed more a better fit than Newsom but again, northern CA politicians seem to dominate the high offices in CA.”

    Agree with you Tgca. But for whatever reason the Latino voter turn-out is always low.

  158. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    111. “Personally. I am glad that SD and Tgca and Michael post here. If they did not, we would be stuck with lisab as the only expert on gay men. Which is an odd expertise for a straight married woman but she did live in Provincetown so I guess it makes sense.”

    Bitter, I think Guy Benson said it best: “my values define me, while my sexual orientation sometimes feels more like … well, a footnote.” It is not a big issue, does not define my life, and I don’t play identity politics. Frankly I am happier at a camp fire with bunch of rednecks at a frack site, or shooting range, than in a place like San Francisco. You cannot make any generalization about anyone just based on their sexual orientation.

    Saying that, can agree with what tgca said in #106. – “These are important things that came about because people pushed hard for them as they did not happen automatically, and in the processed went through a lot.” I was involved in getting those things to happen; and have the battle scars to prove it. Those where often ugly times.

  159. Tgca says:

    163 SDC

    I agree on the footnote because I think of myself as a person 1st before I think of myself as a gay person, though at times I am reminded of it by circumstances. When I lived in San Francisco I was often criticized for not being gay or liberal enough and there were those that were disgusted when I voted for GWB.

    As for campfires, not my cup of tea since I’m a big city boy but I can shoot a gun and am a proud gun owner, and an NRA member too. When in FL I always pack some lead.

    Well enjoy the gay popularity while it lasts since I think being gay is running it’s course and becoming rather trite. I think the new chic will be “being Korean.” They have awesome realistic action films loaded with grit, blood, gore, and often the hero succumbing to an awful death.

  160. Tgca says:

    So sad about the volcano eruption in Guatemala and loss of life. Drudge had link to some disturbing pictures. I pray for Gods blessing to help these folks.

  161. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    This is a huge Republican victory in the California primary.

    “State Sen. Josh Newman (D), who voted in favor of the gas tax increase in a district long held by Republicans, lost a recall election on Tuesday that will send former Assemblywoman Ling Ling Chang (R) to Sacramento in his place.

    The recall campaign centered entirely on Newman’s vote for the gas tax, a measure backed by Gov. Jerry Brown (D). State Democrats predicted Newman would survive, but his lopsided loss — nearly two in three voters voted to strip him of his seat — should scare Democrats in legislative swing districts.

    Newman’s loss robs Democrats of their super-majority in the state Senate. The party hopes to win back key seats in the general election, but for now Republicans have a foothold, however minor, in Sacramento.”

  162. Redmen4ever says:

    GOP Senate nominee in Montana Matt Rosendale – orig from Maryland. First elected to public office in the Tea Party wave of 2010, to state house of representatives. These are very small districts.

    In 2012, elected to state senate. In 2014, ran for the Republican nomination for U.S. Congress and lost to Zinke.

    In 2016, was elected state auditor. In that year, Trump carried the state with 55.6 percent of the vote. Because of big numbers for Gary Johnson and other third party candidates, this involved a 20 percent victory. At the same time, a Democrat was elected Governor with 50.2 percent of the vote, involving a 3.8 point edge because of the libertarian candidate. Matt Rosendale won with 53.6 percent of the vote in a true two-way race.

    Last year, the Republican won the special Congressional election, by 5.6 point, 49.7 to 44.1 percent, with a libertarian in the race.

    It looks as though both the libertarians and greens will have candidates in this race. If this were an open race, I rate it leans GOP. But, Tester is an incumbent. So, I’ll call it a toss-up.

    The state has been trending Republican and Democrats who win do so because they present themselves as conservatives and because of asymmetric third-party siphoning. With a green party candidate, Tester will not be as able to present himself as a conservative. Democrats tried mightily to keep the greens off this ballot this year.

  163. mnw says:

    Redmen4ever 167

    Rosendale is the berries!

    I’ve been preaching Rosendale here for months! Nobody doesn’t like ROSENDALE!! Lets go Matt!

    Every once a century or so, the GOP doesn’t shoot itself in the groin & gets to the starting line with a popular candidate whom nobody hates, & a united party. Say hello to THAT, Tester! Let’s roll.

    Last night on RRH, The Wise Men were eeyoring about Rosendale losing to Fagg, & I posted over there that I thought they were… wrong. My first post in 2 years. I’ve been banned twice, & I’m down to my last IP address, so I gotta be careful! NICE Shamlet. GOOD Vastblightkingconspiracy (cough! dic*head cough!).

  164. mnw says:


    Your posts about CA are interesting.

    Too bad jason ran MG off, btw.

  165. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Incumbent Pete Aguilar(D) did not win his primary in CA CD-31(?). A Republican did. Is he in trouble?

  166. Chicon says:

    Bitter’s Phils smacked around the Cubs last night. Mike Schmidt went deep three times.

  167. dblaikie says:

    My favorite House race last night was district 21. Hillary Clinton won this district by over 15 points. Now the Valadao the incumbent was favored because his opponent lived a few miles outside the district. But the margin was 64% for the incumbent 34% for the dem. If there was a blue wave don’t you think this result would be a tad closer? In a blue wave Trump derangement should have gotten the dem. over 40%. Let me be clear, House District 21 was the highest percentage for Hilary Clinton in all of the Republican held districts.

  168. dblaikie says:

    Last night was a disaster for the Democrats! Watch Cox catch a wave against the California Immigration madness and the incredible stupidity of the huge gas tax in the golden state. I am not saying Cox will win, I am not stupid. But I think this race is going to be alot closer than the Democrat’s ever imagined it would be. And if they think that they can flip 7 districts they are crazy.

  169. mnw says:

    I read that 150000 households pay 40% of CA’s total state income tax receipts. CA has a population of appx 40 million. I thought that was startling.

    Mayor John Lindsey invented the political strategy of joining the extremely wealthy to the very poor. The problem is, it drives the middle class out, then as now.

  170. Cash Cow TM says:

    “…lost a recall election on Tuesday that will send former Assemblywoman Ling Ling Chang (R) to Sacramento in his place.”

    Ling Ling is the name of a panda at the Washington DC Zoo.

    Did the panda beat the Democrat?

  171. Cash Cow TM says:

    D-Day today!

    Yesterday, Walt was Walt’s D-Day as he had a successful hospital procedure to remove a small melanoma from his back. Everything went fine and he was in at 7 and out by noon and home.

    I snapped a photo of the resulting stitches that sewed up Walt and it looks like a long, very long railroad track. WAY longer than Bitter’s Facebook post of the stitches in in eye.

    But due to the fact there might be children present on this site, I will refrain from posting it.

  172. mnw says:

    49/49 RAS

    However, GCB is 45-41 DEM. Two weeks ago, it was 43-42 DEM.

  173. jason says:

    “Too bad jason ran MG off, btw.”

    Is that what happened?

    I guess it just confirms he (or she, as I often suspect) is a moron that actually needs someone to suggest that if you don’t like it here, you are free to go elsewhere.

    What a novel concept!

  174. jason says:

    Give our best to Walt and may he have a speedy and complete recovery.

    It just shows that you are never too old to get cancer.

  175. jason says:

    I am glad now that he older that Walt can access modern medical facilities.

    I hear the last time he had melanoma they used a branding iron to stamp it out.

  176. jason says:

    “He older”…geezuz…

    Me big Inca chief.

  177. GPO says:

    So McCabe went from – im innocent and im going to sue, to give me a deal and ill talk

  178. jason says:

    Mike Schmidt went deep three times”


    Those were the days…

  179. jason says:

    It’s hilarious that McCabe’s lawyer says there is no conflict between his testimony and Comey’s, merely that they have “different recollections”.


  180. jason says:

    Incumbent Pete Aguilar(D) did not win his primary in CA CD-31(?). A Republican did. Is he in trouble?”

    At first glance no, since the R only won by like 100 votes and the 2 Dems got 54%.

    But the R did get 46% so its at least moderately competitive.

  181. jason says:

    NYT announces “a good night for Democrats”.

  182. jason says:

    Fox News says “Dem path to retake House narrows”

  183. Tina says:

    Ig finds that comedy defied his authority.

    What is the rooster going to say?

    Muh institution.

  184. Mr.Vito says:

    From what I see, republicans combined over 50% in every seat on DWs dashboard except one and the two Dem incumbent s marked as Likely/Safe were at about 52%.

  185. Tina says:

    So, Gaven Nuissance underperformed?

    Lots of anger over the gas tax, trains to no where, and illegals.

  186. DW says:

    189–exactly…good night for the GOP. It was always going to be tough to finish top two and lock dems out of any of these competitive seats. But none of the results had a ‘blue-wave’ feeling about them. Some on RRH had even talked about the possibility of the GOP getting shut out of some of these contested seats.

  187. mnw says:

    Vito 189

    Are u talking about CA only? Or all the primary states last night?

  188. jason says:

    I see “cap and trade spending vote” got defeated in CA…what was that about?

  189. jason says:

    Gaven Nuisance?

    Can’t beat Tina for good nicknames.

  190. jason says:

    Did the Dems get locked out of District 8?

  191. Tina says:

    Major Nuissance

    When he was Sf mayor.

  192. jason says:

    R’s only came about 1000 votes short of locking out the Dems in Rohrabacher’s district.

    And the vote to come in second between 2 Dems is only 73 votes apart…that should be a nasty recount.

  193. mnw says:

    I really like the fact that Cox is an honest-to-God full-throated, unapologetic conservative– not the second coming of Arnold Scwarzenegger.

    I realize he will lose, as would any other R in that land of freaks, but he may … energize conservatives & the GOP base, & isn’t that the name of the game in the offyear? Close the enthusiasm gap?

  194. Mr.Vito says:

    One of the races to watch was CA-21… it is 3.6 on DWs Dashboard and went for Clinton by 14 points.

    Only two people were running…

    According to CASOS site, the results are 63.9% for Republican Valadao.

  195. jason says:

    Personally, I would rather win with Arnold than lose with Cox, but if you look at the map Cox + Allen had more votes than all the Dems in several important counties that Hillary won, including Orange, San Bernadino, Riverside and Fresno, and the 2 Rs combined for 36% statewide, respectable considering Trump got 31%. If Cox is an unapologetic conservative as mnw says, pretty good showing.

  196. Mr.Vito says:


    “If Nunes is under 55 percent of the primary vote on Tuesday, Democrats may take a closer look, but it’s still a long shot.”

    Nunes got 57.9%

  197. jason says:

    It’s close enough. I recommend Wasserman invest heavily in this race.

  198. Mr.Vito says:


    “CA-50: GOP Rep. Duncan Hunter is under a federal grand jury investigation for misuse of campaign funds, which is the only reason this San Diego district Trump won by 15 points is worth watching. Democrats’ best hope for the fall is likely a Hunter match up against former Navy SEAL Josh Butner, but he faces competition for the second November slot from Democratic former Labor Department official Ammar Campa-Najjar and GOP El Cajon Mayor Bill Wells.”

    Butner lost to Campa-Najjar.
    Hunter has 48.7%.
    Other Republicans have 15.2%.

  199. Tgca says:


    I thought it was just Bitter that ran MD off on a regular basis. I think there was a longstanding love-hate relationship there as often they would fight and MD would storm out threatening never to return or something like that. Unlike the relationship I had with MD which was just hate-hate. So now I find out that Jason was a nemesis of MD. Interesting…

  200. Tgca says:

    Oh wait a second! Are we talking MD or MG here? I’m confused. I thought the post stated MD. I need to get my money back for that LASIK surgery.

    I’m not aware of any issues with MG but if anyone’s got some gossip to share, please do, we’ll keep in strict confidence and won’t share it beyond the 75 regular posters here.

  201. Tgca says:

    Here’s wishing Walt a speedy recovery. I did not know. I hope all went well for you.

    You wanna trade scar pictures? I have some cool Frankenstein scars to share. You want the pics with the staples intact or removed? Let me know. 🙂

  202. Tgca says:

    Speaking of scars, I’m a bit bummed out. Unfortunately, the long lower back scar is rather hideous and means I won’t be prancing about the south FL beaches this summer wearing my THONG or MANKINI for quite sometime. Isn’t that just awful?

  203. Mr.Vito says:


    “CA-45: GOP Rep. Mimi Walters sits in a district Hillary Clinton won 49 percent to 44 percent, but her favorable numbers are still strong back home. A pair of Democratic UC-Irvine law professors, Katie Porter and Dave Min, are running neck-and-neck for the second slot. Porter, a protege of Sen. Elizabeth Warren, is running as the progressive activist. Min, a Korean-American hewing closer to the center, might be the stronger match against Walters in November.”

    Min lost to the leftist.

  204. NYCmike says:

    “Personally, I would rather win with Arnold than lose with Cox…”

    -More evidence that jason did NOT actually educate himself about what happened during the Schwarzenegger years…….can anyone tell me what would have been the difference had the politician with the (D) after his name won those elections?

  205. CG says:

    I knew John Cox around 15 years ago and was around him at many political functions. Of course I even voted for him when he was our nominee for Cook County Recorder of Deeds.

    He is going to lose this November by at least 20 points though. That’s just reality.

    Oh, and in November 2016, Cox was among those Republicans who refused to vote for Donald Trump.

  206. Tina says:

    Arnold 1st term yes.

    2nd term, no difference, same as Nuissance will likely be, or moonbeam.

  207. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Looks like George Soros wasted $1.5 million in San Diego:

    “Interim District Attorney Summer Stephan held a commanding lead Tuesday night against challenger Deputy Public Defender Genevieve Jones-Wright.

    With 100 percent of precincts reporting — but thousands of mail ballots still outstanding — Stephan had 63.7 percent of the vote versus Jones-Wright’s 36.1 percent. Jones-Wright has had the backing of billionaire investor and criminal justice reform advocate George Soros’s political action committee, California Justice & Public Safety.

    The committee has spent $1.5 million in support of Jones-Wright since May 4, according to San Diego County campaign finance reports.”

  208. Tina says:

    I do not see a blue wave.

    Maybe a bit earlier this year when Mitchum and Ryan were acting stupidly.

  209. Tina says:

    I gave money to cox so that he could get on the go ballot given the stupid jungle primary.

    I also gave money to Patriot Nunes, who helped stop the coup.

  210. Tgca says:

    So someone’s leaking tidbits on what’s in the draft IG report. I prefer to see the entire report than rely on leaks. I read the last IG report front to end and it helped with my insomnia. I expect this one to be more exciting though.

  211. Chicon says:

    Cox didn’t vote for Trump, and now supports him. A reformed Never Trumper, what a concept.

  212. CG says:

    If you think he means it..

  213. Tina says:

    Trump had endorsed both Nunes and Cox.

    At least with the ca gov race, it allows us a chance to win.

    Otherwise, you get a choice of voter fraud and Eric holder 2.0.

  214. CG says:

    Speaking of Gavin Nuisance, who remembers whom his first wife was? Who is she now linked to?

  215. Tina says:

    Who cares?

    Speaking of bad interviews, maybe be should not do anymore,

    Have you apologized to Monica?

    Bj- no, yes.


    Guilty rapist.

  216. Chicon says:

    217 – lol. TDS.

  217. Tina says:

    Willie Brown was a better mayor than Nuissance.

    We did not have the homeless problem as bad, as it is now,

  218. Tgca says:

    Gavin Newsom was Willie Brown’s handpicked boy. Gavin craves acceptance so I expect he will move further leftward once elected governor, and since he is deeply into the special interests, be prepared for some whacky BS from him that will further alienate business and the middle class.

    Except for some key GOP house seats, the GOP should waste no money or resources in CA. None! Zilch! Nada!

  219. Tina says:

    Cnn allay seltzer has been put in place with his Melanie birtherism,

    The pug should know that Melanie’s mother is sick and she has been taking care of her, despite her recent surgical procedure, which appears more significant.

  220. Tina says:

    Cox needs to keep hammering nuissan and tie him to moonbeam.

    Train to no where.


    Out of control spending and taxes.

    Gas tax, a big issue, We are paying $3.55 despite the gas tax.

  221. NYCmike says:

    “If you think he means it..”

    -If Cox says he will shoot someone on 5th Avenue……

  222. Tina says:

    17m17 minutes ago
    Great night for Republicans! Congratulations to John Cox on a really big number in California. He can win. Even Fake News CNN said the Trump impact was really big, much bigger than they ever thought possible. So much for the big Blue Wave, it may be a big Red Wave. Working hard!

  223. CG says:

    Now, Trump is reading HHR comments.


  224. NYCmike says:

    “Oh, and in November 2016, Cox was among those Republicans who refused to vote for Donald Trump.”

    -ALL of you still meet once or twice a month to discuss how best to get the Democrat elected, **** even though you really don’t want that person to win? ****

  225. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    200. “Personally, I would rather win with Arnold than lose with Cox,”

    Are you serious? Arnold is a major loon. His legacy badly damaged the Republicans. Now he has a new wacko crusade.

    ““Schwarzenegger says he wants to sue global oil companies for first-degree murder

    Arnold Schwarzenegger’s next mission: taking oil companies to court “for knowingly killing people all over the world.”
    The former California governor and global environmental activist announced the move Sunday at a live recording of POLITICO’s Off Message podcast here at the SXSW festival, revealing that he’s in talks with several private law firms and preparing a public push around the effort.
    “This is no different from the smoking issue. The tobacco industry knew for years and years and years and decades, that smoking would kill people, would harm people and create cancer, and were hiding that fact from the people and denied it. Then eventually they were taken to court and had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars because of that,” Schwarzenegger said. “The oil companies knew from 1959 on, they did their own study that there would be global warming happening because of fossil fuels, and on top of it that it would be risky for people’s lives, that it would kill.”
    Schwarzenegger said he’s still working on a timeline for filing, but the news comes as he prepares to help host a major environmental conference in May in Vienna.”

    Maybe next he will be Bernie Sanders running mate. It is Republicans like Arnold who are responsible for giving California to the Democrats almost by default. I fully expect Arnold to campaign against repeal of the gas tax, and he will probably do so driving around in his Hummer.

  226. CG says:

    It’s the job of Democrats to win on their own, if they are able to. I don’t vote for Democrats, but probably would theoretically for the one against Dana Rohrabacher, if the other Republican cannot find a way to make the runoff.

    In California, despite rose-colored glasses on here, the Democrats aren’t going to need any help statewide.

  227. Tina says:

    Schwarsnkennedy was his name around here.

    Worst r governor in a long time,

  228. Bitterlaw says:

    Arnold was better than any Dem. 1% Rule.

  229. jason says:

    So it looks like the Arnold haters prefer Gov Moonbeam to him.

    Each to his own.

    I would prefer Arnold to ANY leftist moonbat in CA.

    But, hey, enjoy Newsome.

  230. Tina says:

    Hillary could not win with several federal agencies helping he.

  231. jason says:

    Corey doesn’t “vote for Dems” but prefers a moonbat to Rohrabacher.

    But I guess he is no different than the “conservatives” here who prefer Newsome to Arnold.

  232. Tina says:

    Schwarznkennedy is no R now and did not govern as one then.

    I say this as a full supporter of him during the recall effort of Grayout Dufus.

    1st term yes.

    2nd term no difference than moonbeam.

  233. jason says:

    Arnold was better than any Dem. 1% Rule.”


    Better a Dem who will will 100% liberal than a Republican who will be 80% conservative.

    You don’t want anyone with less than 100% litmus tested… and make sure you test every 3 months in the event someone might have slipped to 99%.

  234. Tina says:

    And the rose covered glasses remark is utterly stupid.

    With cox as the r going against Nuissance, we stand a better chance at keeping many house r seats, and ultimately retain the house.

    Cannot have Piglosi 2.0 show Ryano how to use the speaker position appropriately.

  235. Tina says:

    The party I’d and illegals voting is overwhelming in ca enough.

    But at least with an r on the ticket, the blue wave here may not happen.

  236. jason says:

    “Schwarznkennedy is no R now and did not govern as one then.”

    I love it.

    The same people who say Arnold is not a Republican say Trump is a Republican.

    The hypocrisy is astounding.

  237. Mr.Vito says:

    Here is a comparison of the results at the moment with DWs Dashboard (DWs rating calculated from his ‘toupees’ is in parentheses):

    CA41 SafeD(none) : D has 56.9
    CA26 SafeD(none) : Ds have 56.4
    CA36 SafeD(none) : D has 54.7
    CA09 SafeD(none) : D has 53.1
    CA16 SafeD(none) : D has 52.9
    CA24 SafeD(-5.2) : D has 52.6
    CA07 LklyD(-3.6) : D has 51.6

    CA49 tossup(-0.8): Rs have 48.3
    CA39 tossup(-0.4): Rs have 54.1
    CA25 tossup(0.2): R has 52.8
    CA48 tossup(0.2): Rs have 53.0
    CA10 tossup(0.6): Rs have 52.1

    CA45 LeanR(1.6) : R has 53.2

    CA21 LklyR(3.6) : R has 63.9
    CA50 LklyR(4.4) : Rs have 63.9
    CA04 LklyR(4.8) : Rs have 59.0
    CA01 SafeR(none): Rs have 58.0

  238. Tina says:

    Looks like the ds have dropped Hogg, amnotti, Benadryl,, etc.

    Piglosi now wants swamp stein to tell her what information trump has from the Ig.

  239. CG says:

    Rohrabacher is a pro-Putin, pro-Assange moonbat.

    I guess it would depend on who the Democrat was. If they couldn’t pass my limus test, I would write someone in.

  240. jason says:

    Tina, give Corey a break.

    He is very upset that 2 Dems didn’t make the runoff, which would have depressed the R turnout in Nov.

    Also he seems depressed Rohrabacher will probably survive.

  241. jason says:

    Rohrabacher is a pro-Putin, pro-Assange moonbat”


    Corey IS unhinged.

  242. Tina says:

    Maybe you need to read sdcs article about schwarznkeenedy.

    If those are republican policies now, count me out.

    I re registered as an r to vote in the primary, specifically for cox.

    But if we are going to push illegals, spending, gorebull warming, foreign adventures in the world, suing oil companies, etc., count me out.

  243. CG says:

    Yes, Cox advancing to November might certainly help with the House races. I would not suggest otherwise. If the Democrats would have been locked out of the battleground seats, that would have been even better though.

    But in terms of just the Gubernatorial race, Cox is not going to come close, and Trump looks dumb for suggesting it and the result of course seals the deal for Newsome. Against Villaragoisa, who some said is at least slightly less to the left than Newsome, it would have been more of a contest.

  244. Tina says:

    I did what I could do.

    The electorate here may be more g friendly given the train to no where, the illegals, and the gas tax.

    I will still vote for cox, send more money to Nunez, etc.

    I did my part. I was an r for a few months, now back to a decline to state.

  245. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    This new UT CD-4 poll shows M. Love(R) +4 over her Democrat opponent.
    This may be the high water mark for the Democrat since he already receives 98% of the Democrat vote and is +30 with Independents.
    Lastly, the Mittster will be on the ballot in November.

  246. CG says:

    Assange is an anti-American terrorist, responsible for American deaths.

    Rohrabacher calls Assange a “very honorable man.”

    I could not vote for Rohrabacher (after having admired him in the past for his record). If that makes me “unhinged”, so be it.

  247. Tina says:

    And it is not just the gas tax increase.

    It is the significant car registration increase.

    And then moonbeam approving the water conservation. 55 gallons of water per person coming in 2020 or 2022.

    Plus in a few years, mandatory, new homes have to have stupid solar panels from China, that will add $20000 to the cost of a new home minimum. Just because the solar companies offered to help moonbeam in his retirement.

    Mandatory water conservation and solar panels.

  248. Tina says:

    Once there is an economic downturn, ca will again have large budget deficits too. All smoke and mirrors,

  249. jason says:

    I would use the same argument with Rohrabacher that I used for Arnold.

    I don’t agree with many of his positions but he is still better than ANY of the moonbats the Dems would elect in the district.

    He is wrong on Afghanistan. Wrong on Crimea. In general his foreign policy positions are moronic.

    Still, Bitter’s 1% rule applies.

  250. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    238. “Better a Dem who will will 100% liberal than a Republican who will be 80% conservative.”

    Agree with Tina, total nonsense to claim in any way Arnold is a conservative. He is pushing far leftist policies now.

  251. CG says:

    When does the 1% rule go too far or ask too much?

    Anyone other than David Duke? D. Duke himself?

    Julian Assange is not an honorable man in any way, shape, or form. Now, I hope that Baugh advances via absentee ballots or whatever it takes, as the actual Republican in the race, so he can take out Rohrabacher.

  252. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    248. “Yes, Cox advancing to November might certainly help with the House races.”

    The gas tax repeal will the major draw for Republicans in November. A sitting Democrat state senator, Newman, just got recalled by 60% because of his vote for the gas tax. Of course, am sure Arnold will be out campaigning against the gas tax repeal, and against those murderous oil companies.

  253. CG says:

    And for all the wedding cake talk on here recently, and the varied opinions shared by the pro-Trump gay contingent of HHR, Rohrabacher also said recently that people should be able to refuse to sell homes to gays and lesbians.

    That seems like a bit of a more extreme stance than the one taken by the baker.

  254. CG says:

    And where does Rand Paul (or his father) fit into the 1 % rule.

    For years on here, jason has been virulently anti-Paul and insistent that he could never vote for them.

    What Rohrabacher has said about Assange goes a lot further than what the Pauls have said. Why must he be saved?

  255. jason says:

    Assange is an anti-American terrorist, responsible for American deaths.”


    Just about EVERY Dem in America praised Assange when he was skewering the Bush administration with stolen files.

    “Six years ago, when WikiLeaks burst on the scene with its massive release of American documents, Donald Trump was livid. “I think it’s disgraceful, I think there should be like death penalty or something,” the then-entertainer said in an exchange recently dug up by CNN’s KFile.

    Fox News host Sean Hannity was also furious, demanding Assange be arrested: “Why can’t Obama do something about the WikiLeaks?” Sarah Palin compared WikiLeaks to the al-Qaeda magazine Inspire and called Assange “an anti-American operative with blood on his hands.”

    But Assange won some admirers on the American left, people who applauded his willingness to speak truth to power—for example, by exposing the brutality of the Iraq War, which they saw as a needless conflict launched by the Bush administration. Libertarians viewed his revelation of the inner workings of government as a valuable injection of transparency. Assange’s swashbuckling demeanor made him all the more alluring to all involved.”

  256. CG says:

    Six years ago?

    Two years ago, Trump was saying repeatedly, “We Love Wikileaks. I love Wikileaks.”

  257. CG says:

    Wikileaks and Assange were anti-American terrorists when Democrats founds things they liked about them and they are still anti-American terrorists when “Republicans” like Donald Trump and Dana Rohrabacher find things they like about them and praise them.

    Consistency should not be that difficult.

  258. CG says:

    When Obama was President, Hannity asked why Assange could not be arrested.

    When Trump is President, Hannity calls Assange the most accurate journalist in the world.

  259. jason says:

    And where does Rand Paul (or his father) fit into the 1 % rule.”

    Neither are Republicans, but in any case I wouldn’t vote for a liberal Dem to defeat Rand Paul.

    I would do what I did with Trump, not vote for that part of the ticket.

    “What Rohrabacher has said about Assange goes a lot further than what the Pauls have said.”

    Really? Are you that much of a one trick pony? What a dishonest argument… I have documented many of the disgusting statements made by the Pauls as far as the “blowback” theory, a nuclear Iran, disowning Israel, etc.

    NOTHING Rohrabacher has “said about Assange” even comes close.

  260. Tgca says:

    Trump is the greatest American POTUS in the last 20 years. Undeniable! Long live Trump!!!

  261. jason says:

    Hannity was closer to being right when Obama was President.

    But control of Congress is more important than whatever Tom, Dick or Harry think of Assange.

    Personally I think Assange is a scumbag.

    But you can bet whatever DEM is running against Rohrabacher considered Assange a hero when he was publishing stolen docs on Iraq, and would have considered him a hero had he hacked the Republicans.

    There is no moral high ground here.

    Rohrabracher might not be my ideal candidate, but he is still much better than any moonbat Marxist running against him.

  262. CG says:

    Rohrabacher says Wikileaks should become part of the official White House Press Corps. He is effusive in his praise for Assange. If he races a Democrat, the Democrat will be on the opposite side of Assange, whether some in his party were once playing footsie with them or not.

    I happen to have a litmus test on the Iran Deal, so if the Democrat supported it, I would not vote for them and would write someone in, but Rohrabacher is a disgrace.

    There have to be limits to the “1 % rule.”

  263. jason says:

    Wikileaks and Assange were anti-American terrorists when Democrats founds things they liked about them and they are still anti-American terrorists when “Republicans” like Donald Trump and Dana Rohrabacher find things they like about them and praise them.

    Consistency should not be that difficult.”

    I am the one being consistent. The Dems loved Assange when he was perceived as anti-Republican.

    So voting for a Dem because they are now “anti-Assange” is the epitome of inconsistency.

    Had the Dems clearly rejected Assange when he was helping them you could make a moral argument. But they didn’t. He was a useful tool. Obama commuted the sentence of Chelsea Manning, a convicted traitor.

    Live by the sword, die by the sword. No free lunch.

  264. CG says:

    You get to “leave the Republican Party” and I get to oppose Dana Rohrabacher.

    Moral highground for everyone.

  265. CG says:

    If there were instances of a specific Democrat being pro-Assange or pro-Wikileaks, of course that should be known.

    I have made it clear that I have a personal litmus test on the Iran Deal so I would want to know where they stand on that.

    But whether it involves voting for a Democrat or voting for a Republican, some people with an R next to their name simply are unacceptable. They include Ron Paul (not so much Rand, at least not for me in the past), Pat Buchanan, David Duke, Arthur Jones (who is facing a fairly conservative Democrat) Roy Moore, Dana Rohrabacher, and Donald Trump.

  266. CG says:

    Anybody, D, R, or I who is on the record as praising Wikileaks or Assange or Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden is not worthy of a vote in my view.

    I understand that others feel like they have to weigh other factors in considering if someone has done the above.

  267. CG says:

    Meant to say whether it involves voting for a Democrat hypothetically which I have yet to ever do, or writing someone in, which I have so far done once.

  268. NYCmike says:

    “Better a Dem who will will 100% liberal than a Republican who will be 80% conservative.”

    -If Schwarzenegger was 10% conservative, he would get my vote, if I lived in California.

    BUT, his second term, and his actions and statements since then, show that he is not even that much of a Republican any more.

  269. CG says:

    If the argument on Assange and Wikileaks is being presented as, “since the other side was wrong in the past, our side can be excused or has the right to be wrong now”, that happens to exactly be NYCMike’s pro-tariff position.

    Bad idea on both counts.

  270. CG says:

    Crazy though that in his first term, conservatives pretty much liked what Arnold was doing and thought he was one of them…

    Then the second term hits and…

    That doesn’t raise any concerns for you “Trump is one of us” folks?

  271. jason says:

    How soon we forget:

    Trump hating “The Atlantic”:

    The Atlantic, in a staff editorial, opined “Wikileaks is a powerful new way for reporters and human rights advocates to leverage global information technology systems to break the heavy veil of government and corporate secrecy that is slowly suffocating the American press.”

    “The greatest threat we face right now from WikiLeaks is not the information it has spilled and may spill in the future, but the reactionary response to it that’s building in the United States that promises to repudiate the rule of law and our free speech traditions, if left unchecked.”

    “The New York Times reported that over 200 WikiLeaks mirror sites sprang up after some hosting companies cut their services to the company.[150] On 5 December, a group of activists and hackers known as “Anonymous” called upon supporters to attack sites of companies that oppose WikiLeaks as part of Operation Avenge Assange.[151] PayPal has been targeted following their decision to stop processing donations for WikiLeaks.[152][153] Gregg Housh, who previously worked on other projects with Anonymous, said that he had noticed an organised attempt taking place to attack companies that have not supported WikiLeaks. In reference to the support being shown for WikiLeaks, Mr. Housh said; “The reason is amazingly simple, we all believe that information should be free, and the Internet should be free.”

    But now Rohrabracher should be replaced by a Marxist moonbat because he “praised” Assange.

    Corey IS a clown.

  272. CG says:

    Rohrabacher should be replaced because he is pro-Assange. Preferably by a Republican.

    You are in a great position to make a big deal about how you “left the Republican Party” but insist that 100 percent of Republicans be voted for no matter what.

    And whatever Trump said about Wikileaks six years ago (when he was a Democrat himself) is sort of superseded by the all the praise he gave them as a Republican candidate later on.

  273. jason says:

    You get to “leave the Republican Party” and I get to oppose Dana Rohrabacher.”

    No analogy here at all.

    None. Nada. Zilch.

    If I said I was willing to replace Trump with a Marxist moonbat because I don’t like something he said, fine.

    Until then, your analogy is garbage.

  274. NYCmike says:

    “That doesn’t raise any concerns for you “Trump is one of us” folks?”


    We shall see who his opponent is.

    The fact is this: Trump, like Arnold, is governing in a good way, and deserves a 2nd term (if Trump keeps it up).

    In Arnold’s case, the 2nd term was won, and then he changed, so any mention of him now in a positive way is ONLY done by people who are ignorant of his actions since he won the 2nd term.

  275. NYCmike says:

    ” that happens to exactly be NYCMike’s pro-tariff position.”

    -Heh, now I am pro-tariff……I love this place!

  276. jason says:

    Rohrabacher should be replaced because he is pro-Assange. Preferably by a Republican.”


    But the primary was yesterday.

    No other Republican won.

    So now its Rohrabracher, where probably every seat to keep control of Congress is going to be crucial, or a Marxist moonbat.

    It’s a no brainer, really.

  277. CG says:

    When did I say I would vote for a “Marxist Moonbat?”

    I said I would only vote for the Democrat against him if the Democrat opposed the Iran Deal signed by Obama. Otherwise, I would write someone in, which you think is a horrible idea against Rohrabacher or Roy Moore, but a great idea against Rand Paul and one that you did yourself against Trump.

    If I lived in IL 3, between Pro-Life Democrat Lipinksi and Illinois Nazi Arthur Jones, I would vote for the Democrat. Do you disapprove of that and say I should still vote for the Nazi?

    Now jason, if you lived in Rohrabacher’s district, and he was in a runoff with Scott Baugh, the other Republican in the race, who would you vote for?

  278. CG says:

    They are still counting votes and it’s somewhat close for second.

    Who would you have voted for yesterday?

  279. Mr.Vito says:

    “Andrew Medina, an unarmed security monitor who was seated in a golf cart near one of the school’s entrances, was the first to see the shooter arrive at the school. The shooter, who Medina made clear was a known threat by all the security personnel, stepped out of an vehicle holding a large bag.

    “I knew the kid,” Medina told Broward detectives in his sworn testimony to investigators in February, reported by the Miami Herald. The second he saw the shooter approach the school “like on a mission,” Medina said, he began frantically texting the other security personnel.

    “We had a meeting about him last year and we said if there’s gonna be anybody whose gonna come to this school and shoot this school up, it’s going to be that kid,” said Medina…

    “And we always was watching him, you know. Like, it was one of those kids that we always kept an eye on.”

  280. Tgca says:

    283 284 CG

    Thats easy! I would vote for Trump. Greatest GOP President in the last 20 years. Long live Trump!

    Now..who wants to discuss ABORTION?

  281. CG says:

    TGCA, would you vote for Rohrabacher since Rohrabacher says that it should be legal to refuse to sell a house to a gay person?

  282. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    272. “Anybody, D, R, or I who is on the record as praising Wikileaks or Assange or Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden is not worthy of a vote in my view.”

    Americans Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden were traitors, and should have been shot. The fact Obama commuted Manning’s sentence indicates how much Obama privately loathed his own country.

  283. CG says:

    And let’s point out the obvious; that the files stolen by Manning and Snowden were used by Wikileaks to harm America and Americans in service to their country, likely were killed because of it.

    After the fact, a candidate for President still said repeatedly that he “loved Wikileaks” and as I have been saying today over and over a current Member of Congress from Southern California is unabashedly pro-Wikileaks.

    I like tax cuts and all that, but this is a more important issue to me. Others may feel differently.

  284. Tgca says:

    287 CG

    I would want to understand the context in which he made the remark since politicians say stoopid chit all the time. If he actually advanced a bill or seriously advocated for law, that would blatantly allow discrimination against any group at all, gay or straight, I would consider that as vote disqualifying but it also depends on the political stances of his opponent which might be worse so sometimes it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils.

    Either way, it is probably a moot point because there is already federal and various state laws that protect against discrimination in housing. But if he really disgusted me, I would write in Trump, the greatest GOP President in 20 years. Long live Trump!

  285. CG says:

    TG, you were so angry and so morally certain about the baker, but yet on this, because he is a Trump ally, you seem to want to bend over backwards to make excuses for it?

  286. Tina says:

    I would vote for the Democrat.


  287. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “After the fact, a candidate for President still said repeatedly that he “loved Wikileaks” and as I have been saying today over and over a current Member of Congress from Southern California is unabashedly pro-Wikileaks.”

    In the past Democrats and the liberals have been unabashed supporters of Wikileak. The leftists Associated Press and the Los Angeles Times are reputed to have provided Wikileak funding. The leftist Guardian has published documents Wikileak forwarded to them.

    What the leftist clowns did not understand is that Wikileaks publishes secret documents from everyone. So the Clinton documents were published in 2016. The public got to learn about her lying. Sudden its the Russians and Putin. Those who had enabling the leaking got burned. Serves them right for nominating a slimy candidate, and supporting Wikileaks in the past.

  288. CG says:

    “In the past Democrats and the liberals have been unabashed supporters of Wikileak”

    Nowhere near to the same extent, but regardless I would wholeheartedly oppose the political ambitions of any Democrat who expressed support or admiration for Wikileaks, Assange, et al.

  289. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    According to the leftist logic. When Chelsea Manning published secret documents that reveal information about Americans overseas, and threatens their lives, that is something that leftists should praise.

    But when Wikileaks publishes private Clinton campaign documents, that reveal how badly soiled a presidential candidate she is, that is outrageous.

    In 2016 Democrats were bashing Assange at the same time Obama, their leader, was pardoning Manning. It is putrid.

  290. Tina says:

    Is her thighness blaming wiki leaks for her loss?

  291. Tina says:

    Any proof that Asante was behind the dnc hacking?

    Or is it still the Russians, who fuhrer Mulehead never indicted?

    You know those Russian farms.

  292. CG says:

    Anything Wikileaks does is wrong, whether it hurts a Republican, a Democrat, or any American. Wikileaks is aligned with Putin to hurt all Americans.

    If the far left did not realize that before, hopefully they learned their lesson. Their failure then, is not an excuse or a justification for others, especially with the passage of time and the increase of knowledge as to the damage of Wikileaks to excuse it or use it for “revenge.”

    Obama was wrong to commute Manning’s sentence and should be called on it. Trump was wrong to praise Wikileaks and should not have excuses made for him and Rohrabacher is wrong to staunchly defend Wikileaks to this day and he should lose his job over it.

  293. Tina says:

    In Montana, it appears that 42000 more Rs voted than Ds.

    Hopefully, Tester who thrashed a veteran is feeling the heat.

    Dirty fat slob.

  294. Tgca says:

    I can distinguish between the Chelsea and Snowden events with great reservation. Chelsea was an extremely bitter disturbed guy who released sensitive information out of spite. Snowden at least had some rationale that some could conflictingly relate to because he was supposedly exposing illegal behavior by our government that impacted the rights of ordinary American citizens.

    In both cases, there is a strong argument for treasonous behavior and harm to the US efforts fight on terrorism (it’s not a fair playing field because terrorists don’t play by the rules.)

    I can see some merit in why Snowden may have believed he was doing the right thing. I see no merit at all in why Chelsea thought he was doing the right thing since it was sheer act of vengeance and spite.

    Neither should be excused by the law and I certainly don’t think Chelsea deserved a pardon, but that was just politics and Obama sucking up to the radical left and the gay mafia.

    In the end, both lives have been negatively altered in ways that they probably never envisioned so it’s hard to have sympathy for them as they brought this upon themselves. I do think some positive things came out from what Snowden did though I believe he still broke the law and put the US at risk. I see nothing beneficial that came from Chelsea. He was clearly a disturbed attention-seeking drama queen, and continues to be to this day.

    In the end, I would convict both and have them serve an appropriate sentence without pardon. But I am more forgiving of Snowden then I would ever be of Chelsea based on the facts and circumstances of each case.

    Besides, Snowden was better looking than Chelsea, and of course that is important when applying the law and rendering punishment.

  295. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    When draining the swamp, all sorts of putrid things turn up.

    “WASHINGTON (AP) — After striking an elusive nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration found itself in a quandary in early 2016: Iran had been promised access to its long-frozen overseas reserves, including $5.7 billion stuck in an Omani bank.

    To spend it, Iran wanted to convert the money into U.S. dollars and then euros, but top U.S. officials had repeatedly promised Congress that Iran would never gain access to America’s financial system.

    Those assurances notwithstanding, the Obama administration secretly issued a license to let Iran sidestep U.S. sanctions for the brief moment required to convert the funds through an American bank, an investigation by Senate Republicans released Wednesday showed. The plan failed when two U.S. banks refused to participate.”

  296. Tina says:

    Pres Trump just trolled the press by chairing a FEMA meeting with Melania at his side.
    His card read: the President
    Hers read: the First Lady.

    Take that, can and n, Alka Seltzer.

    Master troller.

  297. NYCmike says:

    “CG” to declare the First Lady should NOT be at a FEMA meeting, and that it is an immoral act, in 3…..2…..1……

  298. CG says:

    Wrong on all counts. I am just amazed he needs a card to know who she is.

  299. Mr.Vito says:

    “…with Melania at his side.”

    What a “feckless c*nt!” TM

  300. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    242. “Mr.Vito says: Here is a comparison of the results at the moment with DWs Dashboard (DWs rating calculated from his ‘toupees’ is in parentheses):

    CA41 SafeD(none) : D has 56.9
    CA26 SafeD(none) : Ds have 56.4
    CA36 SafeD(none) : D has 54.7
    CA09 SafeD(none) : D has 53.1
    CA16 SafeD(none) : D has 52.9
    CA24 SafeD(-5.2) : D has 52.6
    CA07 LklyD(-3.6) : D has 51.6

    CA49 tossup(-0.8): Rs have 48.3
    CA39 tossup(-0.4): Rs have 54.1
    CA25 tossup(0.2): R has 52.8
    CA48 tossup(0.2): Rs have 53.0
    CA10 tossup(0.6): Rs have 52.1

    CA45 LeanR(1.6) : R has 53.2

    CA21 LklyR(3.6) : R has 63.9
    CA50 LklyR(4.4) : Rs have 63.9
    CA04 LklyR(4.8) : Rs have 59.0
    CA01 SafeR(none): Rs have 58.0”

    Great info Mr. Vito. Not seeing a blue wave. I also believe the Republicans have a fighting chance in CA49. The primary focus was on the Democratic candidates, and the Republicans were unknown. Plus the gas tax repeal will be a major issue in a suburban district.

  301. mnw says:

    Tina 299

    And yet all the toupees continue to insist on showing MT as light blue. Because it’s an article of their religious faith: Tester is just not one of the tossups!

    Because that would just be TOO awful.

    Personally, I would say Tester is in more trouble at the moment than McCaskill, Nelson or Donnelly, but not quite as much as Heitkamp.

  302. CG says:

    Rosendale needs to raise a lot of money. Tester’s war chest is gigantic by comparison.

    McCaskill and Donnelly are probably more vulnerable than Tester and Heitkamp right now.

  303. Tina says:

    Well, it’s chairing an official gunment meeting.

    Having cards is common.

  304. Tgca says:


    You are comparing apples and oranges. I came to my conclusions on the baker based on additional information I found out about him in the 59 page SCOTUS decision I read. I also believe he was extreme and manipulating Bible verses to come up with an interpretation that the vast majority of Christians and scholars don’t arrive at. We all take different things from the Bible and what it means to us and use that in our lives but for example, we would not advocate forced servitude by women since many verses in the Bible suggest women be subservient to men. We also don’t offer our children for sacrifice or death to show our faith or punish them as some verses in the Bible advocate. So yes, my conclusion about the baker was his extreme and selective interpretation made me disagree with him strongly.

    As for what Rohrabacher said, I only have your view and am not familiar with the facts, as I stated in my post about context. Should I found out more, than based on that, I may agree with you.

    This has nothing to do with Trump. I am not a Trump sycophant. I disagree with Trump on many things as I did with both Bushes and Reagan so please don’t imply I follow them blindly as I do not. I am supportive of most of what Trump has pushed as POTUS, and I judge him on what he’s doing as president thus far and not some views he may or may not have had years back. As long as he continues to appoint conservative judges, is rolling back unnecessary regulations, has sensible foreign policy agenda, is an advocate for lower taxes, has sensible crime prevention policies, is supportive of the military, looking out for our veterans, and seeking ways to address illegal immigration, then I support his agenda. If and when he abandons those things, I will criticize him. I expect him to make mistakes and that I will disagree on certain items but none of those yet has risen to the point that I withhold my support of his overall agenda.

    So don’t let your vile hatred for Trump blind you to how others see Trump or should see him.

  305. Tina says:

    Looks like cn and n is taking more heat.

    This time, it involves Jim Acosta and his ignorance of history.

    I wonder who is dumbest.

    Alia Seltzer, dumb dumb April, or Acosta?

  306. CG says:

    1. My opinion, TG, is that you are a bit goofy about the baker. Just let him live his life and make a living, and I have no reason to doubt he wouldn’t let you do the same.

    2. I posted a link on the Rohrabacher gay housing matter. You can draw your own conclusions, but it seems to be something that would cause more substantive damage to a community you say we all should care about than one shop not decorating a cake a specific way.

    3. I see now. When you say things like “Trump is the greatest… Trump Trump Trump!”, you are just doing a parody bit. I will keep that in mind.

  307. Tgca says:

    Mueller wants witnesses to turn over their personal phones so all their apps can be reviewed to see what conversations they have had, whether connected to the case or not. No problem. Mueller and his team should also turn over their phones to the IG for review since clearly we now have enough evidence that the FBI and DOJ officials were acting improperly in their investigations. I wonder what kinds of conversations we’ll find occurred during the investigations.

  308. Wes says:

    Mnw, I would say Nelson is more endangered than Tester since Scott has already started an aggressive campaign Nelson has only lethargically responded to.

    RRH went crazy because the Koches made a $100 ad buy praising Heitkamp for a vote they liked.

    The “Republicans” over there have since dialed back the extreme pessimism, but I can tell they’re eager to celebrate how easy a time Heitkamp will have in November.

  309. Tgca says:

    Being goofy because a baket wishes to use his business license to discriminate against some because of his extreme interpretations of the Bible not generally recognized by most Christians or Bible scholars?

    So then you’d be ok if a chef refused to serve women, Jews, or AA at his restaurant because he considers his dinner preparations a work of art and he is compelled by his beliefs to deny them service? How is a baker different than a chef? Chefs are widely celebrated as artistic and creative, as demonstrated by numerous books, articles, and shows on them so why can’t a chef deny service based on their beliefs. Probably because the law does not allow that, and as Kennedy and some of the other justices eluded to, that would be different fact pattern in their case. They did not decide the case based on whether a particular act was free speech. It was decided on an abuse of free speech principles and the application of neutrality.

    Stop trying to compare the bakers actions to what Rohrabacher may have said or meant. It’s completely different. Don’t get all pissy because I won’t agree with you on a hypothetical you claimed a politician stated. I don’t know enough or haven’t seen any actions by him to draw a definitive conclusion so I can’t agree with you.

  310. Ron N says:

    The great Mueller what he get Pap for getting the date wrong when he meet the prof. And this isn’t a witch hut.

  311. CG says:

    I don’t see evidence of the baker discriminating. He is not kicking people out of the store or refusing to sell general items.

    I think a restaurant owner has a right to deny service to anyone if they do not meet the established dress code for example. But that’s a very weak analogy. If people do not like what’s on the menu, that’s on them. Caveat Emptor. They cannot create a special menu just so they feel appeased.

    Do your own research into Rohrabacher. Until you do, you are being hypocritical, but believe me, I find enough to dislike about Rohrabacher these days (I was a fan of his years ago) without it having anything to do with how he might think about gay people.

  312. CG says:

    TG, the analogy that works better for what you are trying to say is that a pork-eater should have the right to walk into a Kosher restaurant or a Muslim one and demand to be served pork. Whatever Scripture the owner believes in, be damned… lots of people believe weird things…

  313. NYCmike says:


    “CG” is The Moral Authority of HHR.

    Please do not disagree with him.

    We will ALL be buried under his volcanic flows of sanctimony.

  314. CG says:

    In the meantime, there is a lovely sausage shop down the street…

  315. CG says:

    On this issue, I think most of HHR actually agrees with me, so not sure why I can’t speak my mind.

    It’s not like I am haunting you all with my Never Trump deviance.

  316. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    George Soros spend $2.6 million in California, and his candidates lost. From Los Angeles Times:

    “California voters appeared to reject liberal challengers in three closely watched district attorney races, delivering a sharp defeat to a national network that is attempting to reshape the criminal justice system by electing liberal prosecutors.
    Incumbent district attorneys in Sacramento, San Diego and Alameda counties led by large margins, according to unofficial results posted Wednesday by county elections offices. A fourth contested race, in Contra Costa County, appeared headed to a runoff in November if results remain the same.
    The elections, typically local affairs, garnered national attention this year after a consortium of wealthy liberal donors, headlined by New York billionaire George Soros, pumped millions of dollars into the races.
    In Sacramento County, Dist. Atty. Anne Marie Schubert, a prominent conservative voice in statewide politics, declared victory with 64% of the vote. Her Soros-backed challenger has yet to concede. In San Diego County, incumbent Summer Stephan won nearly two-thirds of the vote, according to the county elections office. In Alameda County, longtime Dist. Atty. Nancy O’Malley looked to have comfortably avoided a runoff with 60% of the vote.

  317. Tgca says:

    So it does appear, according to ABC sources, linked on a Newsmax, that IG will indeed be slapping Comey around for conduct unbecoming an FBI leader. I still prefer to see the detailed report but if it does indeed criticize him as being reported, it adds credence to the stories about him that he is self-promoting egomaniac who lectures all others on what they should be doing while failing the principles of leadership and ethics himself. It will be interesting to see how he rebuts the IG report. He can’t actually trash them without trashing the integrity of the DOJ and FBI which he claimed was trying to uphold and protect.

    This is going to really tarnish him and add more weight to why the Mueller investigation has no real teeth and is wasteful.

  318. CG says:

    And NYC, since I am taking a position on this Supreme Court ruling that is “shared” by Trump, shouldn’t you be encouraging me?

  319. Tina says:

    Fuhrer Mulehead is is running out of swamp quickly.

    He is making mistake after mistake

    His friends at the law fare blog even suggest this,

  320. Tgca says:

    318. CG

    That analogy is not sensible because it does not fit the fact pattern in the case. The fact pattern was that I bake cakes for events celebrating straight commitment. I don’t bake cakes celebrating gay events. The ingredients and architectural design of the cakes are irrelevant even if they are exactly the same whether for straights or gays because that was not his issue. His issue was his conscience of baking a cake that celebrated a gay commitment.

    In fact, even the wording on the cake may be the same and be as simple as congratulations on your commitment without mentioning gay or straight events or their names The baker would make the cake for the straight couple and not the gay couple still. Remember, the gay couple never even got to discuss the content or wording of the cake because he immediately refused their request when they told him the purpose of the cake. He also refused to make a cake for one of the gay couples mother when she called the next day because he felt it would be used for their commitmet ceremony and be against his conscience. This was all laid out in the SCOTUS decision.

    Please explain to me how the same cake available for 2 different couples in this case is not discriminating if the rationale for not giving the cake is because how and where the cake will be used. It was not about the ingredients or the wording on the cake. He already admitted that it was about his conscience and making a cake that celebrated a gay event.

    He did offer to sell them other items for their birthday or other occasions because it did not celebrate a gay event. He did this to a lesbian couple as well. These facts are not in dispute unless you question the background SCOTUS provided in its decision.

  321. jason says:

    Now jason, if you lived in Rohrabacher’s district, and he was in a runoff with Scott Baugh, the other Republican in the race, who would you vote for?”

    I would have voted for Baugh in the Primary, assuming I was still a registered R. And if he survived in 2nd, I would have voted for him in the GE.

    I would vote for Rorhabacher in the GE over any of the Marxist Dems (which are all of them).

    I certainly don’t think “praise for Assange” is worth risking giving the moonbats control of Congress. Especially considering the Dems running probably LOVED Assange when he was helping them.

    I know you have always have trouble with the big picture, but this one is really BIG.

  322. jason says:

    Is there a better source than Newsmax on the IG report?

  323. Tgca says:

    So just because you believe the majority of HHR agrees with you that makes it correct from a legal standpoint? Most folks at HHR disagree with you on almost every post too, does that mean you admit they must be correct and you are not? In addition, many legal scholars I read also believe if this is decided on the merit of the case, the baker would lose because his sole reasoning is that if it’s gay related, he wants nothing to do with it and personal beliefs don’t trump commerce laws where it’s considered a privilege (e.g. operating license issued) and not a constitutional right to operate under.

    If you were Jewish and came into my shop for a cake for your child’s bar mitzvah and I told you I can’t sell you a cake for the bar mitzvah because my beliefs are against Judaism and it would hinder my conscience by baking such a cake, but instead as a person I would sell you a cake for your birthday or any event that does not recognize Judaism, I bet you would claim it was discrimination.

    That is my point and I believe that’s why SCOTUS pushed it back to lower courts to work these cases through and they specifically eluded to dignity and protection of rights for gays to be balanced with personal beliefs in their decision. I believe if and when it arises again in similar fact patterns, the baker will lose on the narrow grounds if it goes to SCOTUS because 5 of the 9 justices already seem to be on board there. Having the right to believe or say something is different than a right to practice a behavior under the privilege to do business under commerce laws. Just like it is illegal to deny housing and banking service to protected groups based on personal beliefs, I think courts will catch up to the times here.

  324. Tgca says:

    328 Jason

    Drudge had a link earlier in the day but I don’t recall who the source was. National Review has an article on it too but it also points to the ABC report. It appears the leak was to ABC so not sure if there is another independent source.

    You don’t trust ABC? They would not make this up, right?

  325. jason says:

    I do have my limits.

    I wouldn’t have voted for Roy Moore even though I hoped he would win by 1 vote. His opponent was a little scumbag Marxist union hall lawyer, and of course I would not have voted for him either.

    But Rohrabacher is no Roy Moore. He just has some foreign policy positions I think are totally asinine, he is not the only idiot in Congress that thinks the Russians are entitled to Crimea, there are others. He is not that different from most of the clueless morons in the Freedom Caucua.

    Finally the reason I would not vote for Roy Moore has NOTHING to do with the unproven sex allegations against him. It has to do with the fact he doesn’t believe in the rule of law or the Constitution.

  326. jason says:

    You don’t trust ABC? ?


    Do you?

  327. jason says:

    So just because you believe the majority of HHR agrees with you that makes it correct from a legal standpoint?”

    Of course it does.

    We have several lawyers here and several pseudo lawyers and several very fine legal analysts.

  328. Mr.Vito says:

    ” I bet you would claim it was discrimination. ”

    I bet he wouldn’t sue the baker and force him to bake the cake.

    If a person came into Corey’s shop demanding a cake celebrating the Holocaust, he would like to decline making a cake for that event without having his life ruined. He is clearly discriminating against the people who celebrate that event… it might even be part of their own religious beliefs. But he should be able to say, no thanks.

    Kennedy’s decision went out of its way to point out to the Commission that you can’t force the baker to bake this cake over his “sincere religious beliefs” and not force Corey to bake the other.

  329. Tgca says:

    317 CG

    If you wish me to convert to your view on Rohrabacher, you should share your legitimate sources unless they are well evidenced and widely available by a simple click. Otherwise, why should I look into it?

    …and it is not hypocritical of me based on the baker case because I did not post on that case until I read the full SCOTUS decision.

    Like I said, I never heard of this Rohrabacher item before and I caveated my response to you accordingly. I am not just going to say, OMG, he’s a bigot, I won’t vote for him without more information. I don’t know exactly what he said or in what context. Now if he really would advocate that folks should not rent or sell to gays or any group, that would concern me but again, I’ve never heard him advocate that before. It’s like when folks said GWB hated blacks or did not care about blacks after Katrina. That’s hard for me to swallow it is accurate as reported when it’s not evidenced by any support.

  330. CG says:

    I posted a link from RollCall earlier. You can also Google.

    See you people in the near future.

  331. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Another interesting First Amendment free exercise of religion issue:

    “A Brooklyn city lawmaker is sponsoring sex-segregated beach days to give his Jewish and Muslim constituents an opportunity to enjoy the seaside.
    City Councilman Chaim Deutsch announced the first ever “Southern Brooklyn Beach Day,” with separate dates for men and women by the sandy spot behind Kingsborough Community College.
    “A lot of people are disenfranchised for religious reasons,” the Democrat said. “They don’t use the beach because they don’t go mixed swimming. This is to give those people an opportunity for a day out at the beach.”
    Deutsch, who is an observant Jew, plans to pay to rent the space by the publicly financed community college, he said. The permit fee, which has not been determined, will be paid for by private donations.
    Men and boys can go from 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. on June 29. Women and girls can go for the same time period on July 27. If necessary, a rain date will be announced.
    Visitors will be allowed to park by the school for free.
    “Enjoy a private day in the sun and sand at the beautiful, secluded beach at Kingsborough Community College,” a flyer publicizing the event reads.
    But sorting out the legality of the event may be no day at the beach for the city’s Human Rights Commission. City law says public accommodations cannot exclude people based on sex unless there’s an exemption “based on bona fide consideration of public policy.””

  332. CG says:

    Just quickly though on the Bar Mitzvah cake thing (because I am headed to a Shiva, another Jewish thing, where there will be food but probably no cake), typically a hotel or restaurant that is already hosting the Bar or Bat Mitzvah party will provide the cake.

    Otherwise, I just do not see any evidence of this being a realistic scenario. How would a Bar Mitzvah offend any sensible person? It doesn’t take away from rites of passages of other religions. Now, one is free to disagree that a same sex marriage hurts the overall institution of marriage, but at least it makes sense why a person might think that.. even if they are wrong.

    But yeah, I cannot imagine any lawsuits if a Jewish family were ever turned away from a baker saying “I dislike your religion.” They would be quite relieved to not have given their money to such a person and they would find a Jew-friendly place to bake them “such a cake like you have never seen before” (h/t Jackie Mason) that the guests would “plotz”. Mazel Tov to all!

  333. CG says:

    It would make more sense for a Jewish person to be turned away from a religious Christian bakery seeking a cake for a Bris because the design was deemed too risque.

    So be it.

  334. Tina says:

    Pete the cheat strikes again. Likely behind the theft of the trump transition emails

  335. Tina says:

    Grasselys just fired off a 2 page letter ripping swampstein.

  336. Tgca says:

    Yo Vito

    I am not debating what each party in the cae should or should not have done. I don’t necessarily agree with either. I’m simply stating that the rationale is not something that can be distinguished as special under the privilege to operate a business. As you are well aware, operating a business is a privilege that requires adhering to certain laws and that is different than just your beliefs to feel and say something or act out. When it infringes on other legal issues, that’s where the complication arise. The baker should be able to believe what he wants but that is different than putting that belief in action if it conflicts with other laws.

    The Kennedy decision did NOT address whether the baker had a right to decline to bake a cake. It addrsssed how his religious beliefs were not given the appropriate consideration and neutrality under the law for him to present a defense. That is very different than acknowledging his right to refuse service under commerce laws. He specifically stated that those issues would be left for the courts to work through. His decision reversed based on the fact that the baker was treated with hostility and not treated neutral and fair. I actually agree with that and it’s clear the state had contempt for his beliefs. It’s like when an appellate court throws out a decision of a lower court when it finds the lower court did not allow the defendant to put on a proper defense. It corrected the courts on process and not on the question of innocence or guilt. That is why both sides are latching onto this as a win. There was not a clear loser here except for the State of CO which clearly erred in how they treated the baker in the process. SCOTUS basically gave them a prescription on how to deal with these cases in the future. I’m sure CO and other states will follow this closely because it will come up again as both sides are now emboldened.

    I actually agree with SCOTUS on this decision. The state and lower courts needed to be corrected so precedent hostile to religion defense process is not set. I also look forward to future cases when courts find religious interpretation is not enough to set aside rights under commerce laws which I think will ultimately result. But we will see how that pans out. It already appears 5 of the 9 justices fall there but who knows what the future holds.

  337. Tgca says:

    338. CG

    Oh I strongly disagree with you. I have Jewish friends and acquaintances that would fight this like hell. I guess it depends where you’re from but my east coast comrades would not give up a good fight. To many it’s not about cake, it’s the overall point.

    …and you’re missing my point. It was a hypothetical so it doesn’t matter who provides the cake, I was speaking about someone who is opposed to the religion, and there are many people opposed to anything Jewish. I’ve come across folks who believe Jews should not be allowed to live in the US and should go to Israel and the US would be a better place. There is quite a bit of antisemitism out there at varying degrees.

  338. CG says:

    Find one actual example of any bakery declining to make a Bar Mitzvah cake anywhere in the United States.

    It’s a false issue, but yes, I think theoretically a baker should have the right to refuse to do that and that that would be the absolute least thing a Jewish person has to worry about, considering everything else they have been through in thousands of years of history.

  339. Tgca says:

    332. Jason

    I’m shocked! You don’t trust ABC News? One of America’s finest longstanding news organizations. How cynical of you. Well, then you can wait until MSNBC or CNN reports on it then before you put stock in it.

  340. Mr.Vito says:

    “…operating a business is a privilege that requires…”

    On the other hand, passing no law that restricts the baker’s freedom of religion is amendment one. True freedom of religion would be the ability to practice your religion in all aspects of your life, including your personal labor.

    I am aware of the aspects you mentioned about the case already. If one thinks Kennedy is saying the Commission discriminated against the baker’s beliefs, but was perfectly fine to do so as long as they come up with a different excuse openly, I think that is dubious at best and abhorrent precedent at worst.

    I see little difference between several of the statements you have made and the contempt the Commission showed for the baker, as opposed to other far more reasonable remarks made here.

    The commission can commerce clause the situation away if it wishes, but then Corey would have to bake the Holocaust cake.

    “Kennedy was also perturbed by the fact that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission allowed bakers to refuse to bake cakes with anti-gay images and text. This “disparate consideration,” he wrote, further illustrates the commission’s “hostility to religion.””

  341. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    In the weekly Reuters/ Ipsos tracking poll, the Generic Congressional Ballot went from last week’s D+2 to D+11. How,you ask? Just move the PID from D+5 to D+13. The Blue Wave is alive, I tell you(sarc)!!!
    Charlie Cook joins in by moving a bunch of NJ and CA House seats toward the Democrats. None were moved toward the GOP.

  342. Tgca says:

    You’re right CG. I’m full of it. There’s no discrimination out there. That would be like Starbucks calling the cops on some AA guys sitting there waiting for a friend or using their bathrooms. Discrimination just never crosses the minds of folks. Everyone loves everyone. That’s why we have all that tolerance in the Middle East and various areas in Europe. Religion or sexual orientation does not matter. You will always be treated with respect.

    Are you simple minded? It was a hypothetical to demonstrate a point. It’s doesnt have to be a baker or about Judaism. Stop being so literal or I will have to call you a moron which is a favorite term of some here but only meant as a loving way of expressing disagreement.

  343. dblaikie says:

    My Dad fought in World War II. He was an Armored Infantry Man who fought with the Spearhead, the Third Armored Division. He came in as a replacement just in time for the Siegfried Line Campaign, bloody Aachen, and the the Battle of Bulge. His unit earned a Presidential Unit Citation and a Bronze Star. He always told me of the awe he had for those veterans in the 3rd Armored who survived the Normandy Campaign and the break out at St. Lo. Today is the 6th of June the anniversary of D Day. In honor of those who served, who died, the greatest generation who came back and made this country what it is today I would like to post the prayer that President Roosevelt prayed during that terrible day. Here it is:

    “My fellow Americans: Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.
    And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

    Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

    Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

    They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

    They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest-until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men’s souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

    For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and good will among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

    Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

    And for us at home – fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas – whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them – help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.”

    God bless those who gave or who were willing to give, “the last full measure of devotion.”

  344. Tgca says:

    346 Yo Vito

    Your analysis fails as it applies to me. I am a devoutly religious person who believes in the freedom to practice religion but extreme interpretations of it to further alienstimg behavior upon others is not respected under the law or its intent. That has been establish in many cases. Otherwise, people would be discriminating left and right on women and certain minorities and the courts have not generally allowed that.

    Imagine if an Islamic business man owned a large convenience store and refused to hire women using his religious opposition to women. Or the right of multiple marriages practiced in some faiths. Or the right to take 13 year old brides as is custom in some religions. If you think SCOTUS or any other court would uphold these over other laws on grounds of religious speech that is absurd. The courts have made clear that freedom of religion or speech is not absolute. There are limits to them. I suspect this will come up again and lower courts or SCOTUS will find these absolutes do not apply to gays now that gays have equal marriage rights. It takes time to wind these issues through the courts but they eventually get there.

    Please explain the difference to me how the courts would deny religious beliefs to allow alienating women but not gays. It makes no sense if the religious belief in both cases are that you’re religion teaches you it’s against your conscience. I think the courts will throw that out.

    These remind me of all the arguments folks made against gay marriage and why it would not meet legal tests. SCOTUS decided against all those arguments and gay marriage is now law and like it or not it is equal to any heterosexual marriage under the law. That is no longer debatable.

  345. Tgca says:

    349 dblaikie

    Thank you for that rememberance. We should never forget all the sacrifices made in WWII and every war. We gave our most precious assets in these wars, and lost many, the young who eagerly gave of themselves so that others may benefit.

    It still haunts me to think that as far back as the Civil War, we sent our young to fight against their brethren or others who would otherwise have been their friends if not for the conflicts that arose from disagreements. I believe it is the nature of man to make friends but often we are put in horrible situations where those that could have been friends in other circumstances must instead take lives of those they could have befriended because of a conflict that could not be peacefully resolved. So sad and a waste of the young, not to mention the innocent civilians caught in the collateral damage.

    But thank you again for that rememberance.

  346. Mr.Vito says:

    ” I am a devoutly religious person …”

    That doesn’t mean anything… lots of religious people show animosity against other religious people.

    “… but extreme interpretations of it…”

    I doubt Kennedy is going to go for a Colorado commission dictating church orthodoxy, especially in regard to a sacrament that goes back 2000 years and is adhered to by the overwhelming majority of the world’s population.

    He could, but again, he would be setting a dangerous precedent.

    “Imagine if…” You never addressed my situation, but fine. We have ‘compelling interest’ cases in regard to what you are talking about. I don’t see the compelling interest in forcing a baker to decorate a cake in any specific way… but you are welcome to bring that dubious argument forward.

    Frankly, I couldn’t care less if an Islamic person refuses to hire women… I prefer free markets, as do most here… but again I think it further illustrates the scant difference in your hostility toward the baker…

    I also hesitate to create a precedent where, say, an Islamic culture could take hold, start a commission, and begin deciding all sorts of cases in ways that are against gays, and women, and Jews, but its all good because they disguised as something else.

  347. Mr.Vito says:

    “…like it or not it is equal to any heterosexual marriage under the law.”

    And at the time the same people said it would be used to force religious people to not just accept it legally, but to accept it religiously and put their labor toward events they felt were against their beliefs or be ruined.

    And here we are… the decorations on a cake are not a legal matter… they are an expressive one. This couple did not happen upon, by accident, the one baker that would not even make Halloween cakes.

  348. Mr.Vito says:

    They were also not treated disrespectfully, or denied service, but were offered any goods, and any services except for those in which the baker felt compelled not to participate.

    If Kennedy felt the baker was out of line, he most certainly would have stated it, just as he did to the commission. Kennedy believes he was a sincere man, and perhaps he would rule against him, but I guarantee he would respect him. It is pretty clear you do not.

    The main difference is that you continue to see this as a denial of service, whereas others see it as the state forcing someone to use their labor for a cause with which they disagree. You do not seem to respect that position, although from your passion the last couple days, I wonder if it is just that you aren’t seeing past the “gay” aspect of this. Perhaps you are hoping for an extremely narrow ruling that a religious baker must make wedding cakes for gay marriages.

    I think a less damaging outcome is for the Commission to simply say to the baker that he can no longer customize any wedding cakes through his business unless he also customizes for gay couples.

  349. mnw says:

    Sheep 347

    Even The Wise Men at RRH seem skeptical of what Cook did, from what I can see.

    I thought it was noteworthy that today, the day after all the primaries, Manchin told reporters that endorsing HRC had been “a mistake,” & that he might support Trump in 2020.

    I don’t believe a word of itof course, but I think it dhows a certain fear, & Manchin isn’t even at the epicenter of the DEM danger zone.

    Meanwhile, I think I can say without fear of contradiction from the trolls even, muh Stormy is played out. The left has given up on that line of attack, imo. Been weeks since 3iiis Messy tried to beat that dead horse.

  350. Mr.Vito says:

    Red Schoendienst has passed at age 95, mnw.

  351. Mr.Vito says:

    In related news, the lollipop-toting Lollipop Guild munchkin died today at age 98.

  352. mnw says:

    Thx, Vito. Hadn’t heard. We all loved him & Whitey too. I didn’t know Schoendienst was that old.

  353. lisab says:

    Lingerie-themed birthday party ends with 70+ arrests

  354. Tgca says:

    Yo Vito

    Perhaps you’re not seeing past the ‘straight” part of the issue here because you’re straight. Two can play this silly game. Please don’t try to turn this into I’m blinded by it because I’m gay because I can easily state you’re blinded by being straight. This is a failed tactic often used when there is a disagreement over gay vs straight issues like when some straights folks claimed the gay judge in CA should not be able to judge the gay case issue because there is an inherent gay bias. One can easily say that a straight judge should not judge a gay issue because he has an inherent straight bias. This argument has failed in the courts before so you won’t gain any ground here.

    I would argue the same thing if he did this to a Jew or a woman and argued his reservation was based on his religious beliefs that his conscience would be offended.

    This is about the service provided under commerce laws. He is granted a license to operate a business and is compelled by the laws of that license. If the law states you cannot discriminate then he should comply. If he can’t, then he should give up his license to operate a business.

    If he wants to make free cakes for friends and so forth, I’m ok but once he has secured a license to operate under the law he can’t automatically say his religious beliefs trump all laws. They cannot and do not as has been longstanding legal principle. …and it is absurd to argue that folks should just ignore him and go elsewhere. Why? If he s in violation of the law, he should be held accountable.

    The Bible also says divorce is wrong. Is he denying cakes to divorcees remarrying? The Bible calls out adultery and has sharp penalties for that. Would he deny making cakes for those sinners too? Why is he selectively picking gays over other sins? These are probably questions and examples that will come against him if it goes back to court on the rights issues because justices want to get to intent and make sure this is not a phony issue. His religious objections are extreme and not founded in everyday Christianity and that is why I think he should be denied that exclusion. It is not just because it’s a gay issue.

  355. Mr.Vito says:

    “Perhaps you’re not seeing past the ‘straight” part of the issue here because you’re straight.”

    Well, I certainly seem to be able to disassociate my passion from the topic… you still can’t, it seems, which is what I said specifically raised that question. I also didn’t say or anyway imply it was because you are gay, I said you do not seem to be able to see any bigger picture past the “gay” part, which is why I specifically asked if you were looking for a narrow ruling.

    I think the fact that you just turned that you could not read that correctly and turned it into ‘gay vs. straight’ just further illustrates my point.

  356. Mr.Vito says:

    “Would he deny making cakes for those sinners too? Why is he selectively picking gays over other sins?”

    Probably. It is specifically stated in the SCOTUS case that he has declined making cakes for divorce parties, for example.

  357. Mr.Vito says:

    And again, he is not denying cakes to those people either… just for that event.

  358. Mr.Vito says:

    “Why is he selectively picking gays over other sins?””

    This seems to further illustrate how little you actually know about the facts of this baker.

  359. Mr.Vito says:

    “His religious objections are extreme and not founded in everyday Christianity and that is why I think he should be denied that exclusion.”

    Again, I addressed this. You aren’t doing so. What is extreme… not wanting to express approval for gay marriage with his labor? according to whom?

    Will the state post its theses to the door of the church? No way Kennedy goes for this…

  360. Mr.Vito says:

    You continue to say its about commerce, but then always go back to denigrating the man’s beliefs and trying to tell people what is and isn’t Christian doctrine. That should be enough to give pause to any religious person…

  361. Tgca says:

    Yo Vito

    Excuse but go back and read what you wrote in 354 below. You clearly assume I’m too close to it because I’m gay as you note below in quotes. I’m putting that back on you as you argue every point it seems you are also emotionally attached to this case and it seems appropriate to me to conclude you view this from your “straight” view of the world and it bothers you. I guarantee if I posted your comments on any gay site or moderate to liberal sites, most would say you appear to have a “straights” bias. …and I’m sure most conservative sites would think I have a gay bias. So again, I disagree and I accept that you view it different but it does not make it any better or right than my view.

    As someone who is religious and reads the Bible, I can understand the importance one places in it, but in my view, this baker is way extreme in his interpretation. That’s his right but it does not mean he should be able to skirt other laws because of his interpretations and hide behind freedom of speech.

    “You do not seem to respect that position, although from your passion the last couple days, I wonder if it is just that you aren’t seeing past the “gay” aspect of this.”

  362. Mr.Vito says:

    Yes, and? Where did I say it was because you were gay? There are a lot of straight people equally passionate about gay rights.

    As I just said, the sentence that follows asks if you are looking specifically for a ruling on the “gay” marriage aspect rather than broader precedent.

    Again, you do not seem to be able to look at this without assume malice on the part of others. You certainly do not seem to respect the position.

    I see nothing there for you to make that “assumption.

  363. jason says:

    I have my opinion on this argument but Mr. Vito is doing a good job defending it so what is happening with the IG report?

  364. Bitterlaw says:

    As I feared, the two teams I coach will play each other tomorrow for the league championship. I wish it could end in a tie. I really like both teams. Great girls.

  365. Mr.Vito says:

    I still don’t know what you think is extreme about his interpretation. You have already acknowledged all these things are “sins” in christian doctrine.

    Certainly the Christian tradition is to not participate in or celebrate sin, to repent when you do, and to not do it anymore, just as Jesus said to the adulteress.

    It is not the baker’s fault that you find some people treating it more casually.

  366. Tgca says:

    Did you read the SCOTUS decision? All 59 pages? I did. I did not have a strong opinion on it until I read the facts laid out there.

    Please show me where in the Bible it says one must take up against gays if they engage in a certain behavior or else they’re not a good Christian. That is his extreme interpretation of Old Testament. Folks are so quick to talk about how radical Islamic distort the Bible but when Christians do it, it’s different. Well, it’s not to me. I read the Bible weekly and I don’t take it literally, especially since Jesus, which Christianity is based on frowns upon many of those old ways and teaches about forgiveness and compassion.

    Old Testament supports prostituting daughters out. Killing children who misbehave. Sacrificing human life to God. Are these protected under the laws of free speech if someone chooses to cling to tthem?

  367. Mr.Vito says:

    I also have to question the commerce argument if it is going to become one that parlays moral doctrine in order to do business.

    To say it is a ‘privelege’ for a person to be able to use his labor to make a living in a country in which he is a citizen seems to be contrary to the notion of freedom itself, but especially if the exchange for this privelege is that a person can be compelled to use his labor for causes dictated by the state.

  368. Mr.Vito says:

    “… says one must take up against gays…”

    Fascinating take. When did this man take up against gays?

  369. Tgca says:

    I stood by the decision of the court in this case because it addressed process and not the free speech component. I would like to see the free speech argument taken up by the lower court in a respectful manner that balances religious beliefs, freedom of speech, and commerce laws. That’s what this is about to me. Can his interpretation of the Bible trump commerce laws. I think not, and it should not be applied to just gay issues but any potentially protected issues. I gave examples of women and Judaism where one can make a similar claim as he has made and I would defend it just as strongly. I want the court to state that you need to treat them mutually exclusive from your beliefs in the practice of commerce if they violate commerce laws, otherwise you get folks interpreting all types of things in running a business. That is what I like to see in this case.

    If he wants to make cakes and not engage in business commerce, then fine, let him do as he pleases.

    Do you think as a business leader who hires people I should be able to say I won’t hire someone if hiring that person makes me question my religious conscience? Do you think it’s legitimate for a devout Islamic male to refuse to hire a female because it conflicts with his religious beliefs and the way he was brought up? Should the courts say he has freedom of religion to do that?

  370. Tgca says:


    He states that by making cakes for gays that goes against his religious conscience. In other words, he is compelled by his belief and interpretation of the Bible to refrain from anything that supports a gay commitment. That can be seen as taking up against gays or gay commitment. Not physically but interpretatively so no need to play on words. He is the one claiming it somehow pains him to do something like make a cake for a gay commitment.

  371. Mr.Vito says:

    “Folks are so quick to talk about how radical Islamic distort the Bible…”

    Well, if he ‘took up against gays’ their way, maybe he would have thrown them off the roof instead of offering a different cake.

    “but when Christians do it, it’s different.”

    Apparently so, as you are distorting the teaching of Jesus as “…Jesus, which Christianity is based on frowns upon many of those old ways…”

    when Jesus actually said ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

    And, “before Abraham was, I AM.” (sorry Corey)

  372. Mr.Vito says:

    “Old Testament supports prostituting daughters out. Killing children who misbehave. Sacrificing human life to God.”

    Please give us the verses where God said it is okay to prostitute our daughters, kill children for simply misbehaving, and sacrifice human life.

    Frankly, this sounds like Jewish blood libel.

  373. Tgca says:


    We can argue about commerce laws and precedent forever but you know as well as I do there is no constitutional right to operate a business anymore than to drive a car. That power is vested in the states and they generally have rules all must follow to engage in that privilege. Now we may all agree upon unduly burdensome rules but at the end of the day, there is still minimal compliance and for decades these rules have generally stood the test of the courts. If you wish to argue they should not bare upon free speech and freedom of religion, that is another argument but I have provided numerous examples where freedom of speech and religion are not absolute and must meet or work with other laws. No one has ever made a successful argument in the modern court that I have the reedom of religion and speech to sacrifice my child, prostitute my daughter, slay my child for bad behavior, keep my wife in servitude, and own slaves. So again, my point is that there are limits of speech to be balanced with other laws.

  374. Mr.Vito says:

    “…you know as well as I do there is no constitutional right to operate a business anymore than to drive a car.”

    And yet there is one for religious freedom…

    “No one has ever made a successful argument in the modern court that I have the reedom of religion and speech to sacrifice my child, prostitute my daughter, slay my child for bad behavior, keep my wife in servitude, and own slaves.”

    And yet we just got one condemning the Colorado commission for making this exact kind of comparison to this baker in those 59 pages.

  375. Tgca says:


    1st of all, I did not say God said those things. Go back and read my posts. You are adding words. I said they’re in the Bible and people use them interpretatively to justify their beliefs.

    Try Genesis 19:8 for Lot offering his virgin daughters to the men of Sodom.

    There are numerous Bible versus on killing people, their children, their families, etc. Try Exodus 21:15 where any child strikes parents are to be put to death. Try Leviticus 21:9 where a daughter who profaned herself by whoring should be burned to death. Leviticus 20:9 if a child curses his patents, put them to death.

  376. Tgca says:


    Having freedom of speech does not mean you can use it unchecked. The courts have made it clear that yelling fire in a crowded theater or using speech to cause riots harming others is not covered under freedom of speech so that rebuts your 1st comment.

  377. Mr.Vito says:

    “Try Genesis 19:8 for Lot offering his virgin daughters to the men of Sodom.”

    God did not say that was okay. Lot offered that so that the evil men would not try to rape God’s messenger, and GOD’S MESSENGERS did not allow Lot to do it.

    Saying that could be used as a justification for prostituting daughters is a total slander. Kennedy would really come down hard on you for this one.

  378. Tgca says:

    Not exactly on your 2nd comment either. I gave an example of what is not covered under freedom of speech based on legal precedent. SCOTUS accused the Commission of not honoring neutrality and being hostile to the baker by making accusations against him without a fair hearing. There’s a difference. I agree they did not give him a fair hearing or let him put on a defense. I am not his judge so my personal view of the types of questions or analogies a court might make is different. It would not be improper if he had a fair hearing and during that hearing they asked him why in his case it would be appropriate to deny gays because of his religious beliefs but would it also be proper to deny women based on similar biblical beliefs. Justices do that all the time in oral arguments with hypotheticals.

    Try again.

  379. Tgca says:


    Now you’re making my argument. I never said God made them. Please show me where I said that. My point is that God did not say these things but that people interpret them for their own use to justify their beliefs. That has been my argument all along. Extremists interpret the Bible for their selective use. Thank you for helping make my point. Next?

  380. Mr.Vito says:

    Try Exodus 21:15 where any child strikes parents are to be put to death. Try Leviticus 21:9 where a daughter who profaned herself by whoring should be burned to death. Leviticus 20:9 if a child curses his patents, put them to death.

    That is not ‘misbehaving’ and if that is God’s punishment, then that is God’s punishment.

    The “strikes” in Hebrew is translated as attacks or kills. Leviticus 20:9 is specifically for a priest’s daughter… other religions used prostitution as part of religious ceremonies in priesthood (even up through the Greeks for example)… God was not going to allow that from his people. For Leviticus 21:9, seeing how honoring your father and mother is in the actual 10 commandments, I don’t find this shocking.

  381. Tgca says:


    You speak for Kennedy now but lecture me on my take on his words in the decision. That’s hypocrisy.

    As is clear in my description, these daughters were offered up for sexual exchange. I call that prostituting out. Where I come from some parents gave their daughters for drugs or other favors. Trays prostituting in my book.

  382. Mr.Vito says:

    “Old Testament supports prostituting daughters out. Killing children who misbehave. Sacrificing human life to God. Are these protected under the laws of free speech if someone chooses to cling to tthem?”

    “Go back and read my posts. You are adding words. ”

    Yeah… uh, no words added. You specifically put in this stand alone sentence that the Old Testament SUPPORTS these things. No it doesn’t… the Old Testament is God’s Word. Just because someone does something does not mean it is supported by God’s Word.

  383. Mr.Vito says:

    “You speak for Kennedy now but lecture me on my take on his words in the decision. That’s hypocrisy. ”

    Kennedy spoke for himself. I thought you read the “59 pages”?

    He condemned the commission for likening this baker to slavers and Nazis. Maybe you think he would have been okay with child prostitutors.

    Good luck with that.

  384. lisab says:

    sooooooooooooooo …

    what did you guys think of the colorado cake decision?

  385. Tgca says:


    Ok Vito. You’re playing on words. Misbehaving, ruly, insubordinate, bad kids, whatever. The fact is that the Bible calls for their death and that would be considered extreme and not permissible under our laws. Give me one example in American law where it is permissible to put your child to death where it’s not self defense with a real threat to life.

    The Bible calls for death and murder in many places but you’re trying to excuse it away now saying what they really mean is….

    Try again. Your word play is getting you nowhere here.

  386. Tgca says:


    I am not saying that. You play on words because you can’t successfully rebut my intended arguments.

    I question why the baker thinks he has a religious argument other than that’s just how I feel because he can’t point to any specific passage in the Bible that addresses his belief. You think if this case goes to court on the free speech issue that he’s going to be able to dodge all these questions and courts are going to say well it’s his right to believe whatever he wants so he can violate laws that generally others can’t, hence, the reason the laws are codified in the 1st place, to let folks know they are violations.

  387. Mr.Vito says:

    “My point is that God did not say these things but that people interpret them for their own use to justify their beliefs. That has been my argument all along.”

    Your point was frowned upon by Kennedy. Your weird slander that Christians are misinterpreting scripture to prostitute their children is in stark contrast to the fact that this man can very clearly use scripture to decline creating using his labor to beautify something the Bible describes as sinful.

    You can say he’s too orthodox, but who is going to determine that? the state?

  388. mnw says:


    Brevity is the soul of lingerie.

    Dorothy Parker

  389. mnw says:

    sb “Lisab” Spellcheck

  390. Mr.Vito says:

    “You’re playing on words.”

    “You play on words because you can’t successfully rebut my intended arguments.”

    Huh. Interesting.

    “I question why the baker thinks he has a religious argument other than that’s just how I feel because he can’t point to any specific passage in the Bible that addresses his belief.”

    Of course he can… even if he himself couldn’t, Kennedy said he had “sincere religious beliefs” in the ruling, so even Kennedy knew he could. (There are any number of passages that tell a Christian to avoid sinful behavior, to not participate in worldly things, and to not take pride in it.)

  391. Tgca says:


    Well consider this.

    Who is going to say a man is too orthodox if he beats his children because he believes the Bible calls for istrict punishment? The State? Yes, in that example because it may be consider child abuse.

    I don’t like it that the State makes decisions on religious matters anymore than you and that is why I am glad SCOTUS chastised the State but SCOTUS also left the door way open for the State to consider whether he had a freedom of religion exception here. The State did not give him a fair hearing to defend his views. I agree with that. But I think his views violate the laws as well. Both can be true as Bitter would say.

    The courts will ultimately decide this issue and based on my gut feeling, legal readings, and the times we live in, I believe he will not be successful or the court will give him a very narrow solution he can operate in.

  392. Mr.Vito says:

    ” The fact is that the Bible calls for their death and that would be considered extreme and not permissible under our laws. Give me one example in American law where it is permissible to put your child to death where it’s not self defense with a real threat to life.

    The Bible calls for death and murder in many places but you’re trying to excuse it away now saying what they really mean is….”

    You don’t seem to understand Christ’s teachings at all, really… or what Kennedy said even (the baker is not advocating death for the gay couple, nor would he because he understands Christ’s teaching). God’s judgment will be carried out at the appointed time, and we all have a chance at redemption by accepting his sacrifice for our sins (the punishment for all sin is death).

    By the way the Bible does not call for murder… that is another slander, when God says someone should be killed it is always as punishment for sin… clearly some sins He felt should be punished quickly. So, if you want to argue about whether God is just, that is another matter.

    Fortunately, our system of laws has Judeo-Christian roots, and therefore you DO NOT find any such instances in our laws.

  393. Mr.Vito says:

    “You think if this case goes to court on the free speech issue that he’s going to be able to dodge all these questions and courts are going to say well it’s his right to believe whatever he wants…”

    Actually, he just believes what is in the Christian tradition… that he should not sin or celebrate sin. The usual hang-up is that the other person doesn’t believe homosexuality should be considered a sin. It is interesting to find someone that doesn’t think a religious person can use scripture to decline to be involved in an activity they find sinful.

  394. lisab says:

    I question why the baker thinks he has a religious argument other than that’s just how I feel because he can’t point to any specific passage in the Bible that addresses his belief.

    eh …

    it would probably be the gospel of luke … my least favourite gospel …

    now keep in mind i am not preaching, i am just informing what some christians might say about this “follow your conscience” not necessarily the laws of man or church …

    it says something along the lines of, the holy ghost will direct your conscience on what to say in front of the pharisees and judges — and you don’t mess with the holy ghost because he doesn’t mess around or forgive very much

    that is not exactly the latin but it is a paraphrase

    which is why many christians are told to always follow your conscience, just try to be sure that you have a good conscience through study, going to church, eating chocolate on easter etc.

  395. Tgca says:

    Kennedy stated that he had sincere beliefs with respect to that he should have been giving a fair hearing. I agree on that. In no way did Kennedy imply that sincere beliefs justify violating other laws or he agreed with his view. He specifically left that for the courts to decide. Again, both can be true.

    There is no doubt in my mind that he sincerely believes he has a religious conscience to do what he did. But often that is the case with many who take religion to an extreme or if you prefer to tone it down, Orthodox views. I grew up in a Catholic environment where priests and nuns regularly beat kids, not just slapped them but sometimes beat them to the extent bruises were left or blood was drawn. That would not be accepted today even though those religious folks felt it was there religious calling to enact such discipline.

    So I get the sincerity, I jus don’t think it plays a large part in the legality of the issue.

  396. Tgca says:

    Dammit LisaB. I wanted 400!

  397. lisab says:

    and i wanted to be 5′ 10″

    but some things were not meant to be

  398. Mr.Vito says:

    “In no way did Kennedy imply that sincere beliefs justify violating other laws or he agreed with his view.”

    And yet he went out of his way to condemn the commission for likening his sincere religious beliefs to slavery and murder by saying that such things were also justified by “religion”. Yet you did that here… and I pointed it out as proof of your own hostility in Kennedy’s eyes.

  399. Tgca says:


    I agree LisaB. We all have our interpretations and where we draw them from. I just think it’s wrong in this case. I did not pay much attention to this until I read the decision. My focus before that was that the Commission treated him badly and would not let him defend his case in a neutral environment. But I decided against him from what I read in the decision. I still agree with SCOTUS chastising the Commission and essentially providing them a roadmap on how to fairly and sensitively deal with these matters in the future.

  400. lisab says:

    luke chapter 12:1-12 btw

  401. Tgca says:


    I am not the decision maker here so it’s totally acceptable I may take a view on it, as you have, and as does every article I read on this matter the last 2 days. If I were on the Commission, I would expect to behave differently and enforce neutrality. I would have given him the chance to present a full defense. I would have challenged and asked many questions but I don’t think I would be as in your face as I am here. Justices do this all the time. Clearly, when you see the questions the Supremes ask, it is often very easy to see how they’re feeling and where they’ll most likely fall. That is human nature but tough inquiries does not mean you’re unfair to them.

  402. lisab says:


    well … one theory of christianity is

    you must follow your conscience … or basically you are screwed …

    and the baker said he is following his conscience.

    that btw, does not imply his interpretation of the bible is correct, that is why they have teachers of various sorts, e.g. priests, ministers, deacons etc.

    however, if you think the baker is sincere when he says that baking the cake is against his conscience

    then, there are some christians — in fact a large percentage — that would say he has to follow his conscience

    thus … a first amendment issue

  403. lisab says:

    what i would say as a judge is,

    no individual baker has to bake the cake


    as a business, with employees, the bakery has to fulfill the service they advertise, even if they have to buy the cake from another bakery to do so

  404. Tgca says:

    In reading Kennedy’s decision, I think he got it right but I didn’t agree with everything he stated either. Nor did I agree with all the other justices said. I do think Ginsberg had some valid points though I don’t agree with her overall remedy either.

    Inevitably, this and other topics are going to come up and the courts will need to resolve them over time. Some decisions will feel good, others not so much.

    But I want to rebut this argument by many ultra conservatives that gays only asked for gay marriage promising it would not infringe on our religious beliefs but now we find they are.

    Let me give you an example of one such argument. Some religious people say that just because gay marriage is legal, we should not indoctrinate children and teach about it in school or change the teaching materials. Their view is we gave up marriage, that is enough. Don’t expect my child to be exposed to classroom discussions on 2 mommies or class books that show same sex parenting.

    My response is what did you expect? Once it was legalized by the courts, did you expect something like separate but equal? Of course over time school materials are going to include these different relationships because marriage under the law is now viewed the same whether you’re heterosexual or same sex. These are the same arguments made against interracial marriages. There was never an expectation you can hide this from children or the world. People will adjust to it overtime and are allowed their personal views but it does not mean they won’t be challenged for them.

  405. lisab says:

    Let me give you an example of one such argument. Some religious people say that just because gay marriage is legal, we should not indoctrinate children and teach about it in school or change the teaching materials. Their view is we gave up marriage, that is enough. Don’t expect my child to be exposed to classroom discussions on 2 mommies or class books that show same sex parenting.

    you may recall that i was VERY pro-gay-marriage, or as we like to call it in massachusetts, marriage


    you were very outspoken that it was going to be used by some niches withing the gay community — particularly gay men, to actually weaken traditional marriage

    however, the lesbians like it

  406. Tgca says:


    I agree. The issue here is that he is baking and selling cakes under a business. That requires licensing and adhering to laws. Not all laws are fair and just but you have to decide what’s more important to you. Your business or your conscience. If the law says you must follow certain practices, you must then choose to comply or violate. We have many examples of this already, some I gave before. So unless SCOTUS decides to exempt on religious grounds abiding to laws others must also adhere to (I doubt they will), the business owner must comply with laws or shut down shop. It’s not fair but laws are not always fair to all but instead intended to benefit society as a whole.

  407. lisab says:


    however, as i said, my answer to the baker — as a judge — would be

    you, mr. baker, do not have to bake the cake

    however, wedding cakes r us inc., does have to provide the cake as they advertise it for say and they may not discriminate based on gender, sexual identity, ethnicity, race etc.

    and if that means wedding cakes r us inc. has to hire a back-up lesbian baker, so be it

    judgement is for the plaintiff

  408. Tgca says:


    Yes. I still agree there are a number of gay subgroups that make a mockery of marriage and that to me is shameful. But unfortunately, we have that in the straight world too. Numerous folks don’t take their vows seriously and cheat and disrespect their spouses or marry for reasons beyond the traditional sense. Not everyone married for true love like Anna Nicole Smith, God rest her soul.

    I saw a funny profile description on a gay profile once. It said mockingly “I can’t wait to get married so I can have an open relationship.” I thought it was funny but rather true too. I know numerous gay men that are married but have open relationships with other men. I don’t understand that personally but I guess some men want to have their cake and to eat it too.

    Ha. Ha. Pun intended.

  409. Tgca says:


    You will not be warmly embraced by the Rev Graham Minister LisaB. 🙂

  410. Tgca says:

    All in all, I’d rather still discuss ABORTION. Now that’s something I can get passionate about.

  411. lisab says:


  412. Tgca says:

    Where is everyone? Doesn’t anyone want to discuss ABORTION? 🙁

  413. Tgca says:

    The article below is from Newsmax and based on a CNN interview. I seriously question how these morons get on TV, and worse, to think he was a high ranking officer in our military.

    Lt. Col. Ralph Peters Insists Putin Is Controlling Trump

    Retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters alleged Wednesday night that President Donald Trump is being controlled by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    Peters appeared on CNN and told host Anderson Cooper he is sure Putin has Trump in his “grip.”

    I am convinced that Vladimir Putin has a grip on President Trump,” Peters said. “When I first learned of the Steele dossier, it just rang true to me. Because that’s how the Russians do things.

    “And before he became a candidate for president, Donald Trump was the perfect target for Russian intelligence. Here is someone who has no self-control, a sense of sexual entitlement, and intermittent financial crises. That’s made to order for seduction by Russian intelligence. I may be wrong. I hope I am wrong. I hope Putin doesn’t have a grip on him

    The Department of Justice is currently investigating whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. No evidence has been made public that suggests that was the case, and Trump insists his campaign did not work with the Russians to defeat Democrat Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.

    When you look at Trump’s behavior patterns . . . How can you not draw the conclusion that Donald Trump, the president of the United States, is frightened of Vladimir Putin and his grip?” Peters said.

  414. Tgca says:

    Let me splain why I think Trump is neither afraid of Putin or controlled by him.

    1. Trumps egomaniacal behavior has demonstrated that he will pick a fight with anyone at anytime especially if they rub him the wrong way. He is fearless in this area and no one is beyond his verbal lashes. There is a long track record of this. Right or wrong, it’s who he is and he backs down from no one.

    2. Trump does not appear to have any shame. Everyone knows about his sexual escapades before his POTUS run and what he has said on and off camera and tape. He has given incredibly detailed interviews with Howard Stern about his sexcapades so what is there to hide? Even if they had a tape of women peeing on him, he would turn it around to his benefit and argue how most guys would give anything to have the beauties do the same thing to them. Then he would go on to threaten to divulge secrets he knows about everyone in Congress. Come on, does anyone really think Trump would quiver in fear over this?

    3. Just how does Putin control this grip? Does he send lil secret messages telling Trump what to do and not to do? Clearly our intelligent services would catch on to this unless his handler is Barron who communicates through a short wave radio hidden behind his beds headboard.

    4. I don’t think Trump or anyone else ever really expected him to win until very late in the campaign so Putin had the great wisdom years in advance to plan this with such precision?

    5. You would think all these wires, phone taps, and spies would have picked this up at some point and collusion would be a slam dunk. Hasn’t happened.

  415. Mr.Vito says:

    “It’s not fair but laws are not always fair to all but instead intended to benefit society as a whole.”

    This is the closest to the truth in the line of reasoning… it is about social justice determined by the state. It has nothing to do with individual liberty and the Bill of Rights.

    “That requires licensing and adhering to laws.”

    Congress (and by precedent the state) shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

    A persons religion is an identity, and asking them to be “not religious” because they want to make a living is no different than asking a gay person to be “anti-gay” if they want to make a living.

    If the court ruled you could not express “pro-gay speech” if you wanted to run a business, this conversation would not be happening. Again, will you accept that gay bakers will have to make ‘anti-gay’ cakes?

    Because that was the implication made by Kennedy… that the commission also displayed animosity to religion by ruling against the Christian baker, but in favor of bakers who did not want to make cakes for what they considered ‘anti-gay.’

    Will we all throw up our hands and say, well its for the greater good?

  416. Tgca says:

    Yo Vito

    This was a good interesting at times testy frustrating discussio but I think we’ve exhausted it. Let’s just outlaw all cake and be done with it. Problem solved.

    I’d rather discuss something I’m really passionate about…ABORTION.

  417. Tgca says:


    Yes. If a bakery had a practice of making cakes that included inappropriate or profane cakes, or unpolitically correct cakes and then someone came in and wanted them to make a cake that gays might find objectionable, I would tell them to bite their tongue and do it because you can’t have it both ways. This is assuming that there was a real need for the request and not someone just coming in to start a fight. Same with the baker. If gays were just coming in to pick a fight with him, then I agree he should turn them away on those grounds. I know it starts to get to be a slippery slope if you start qualifying everything but life gets complicated at times.

    Hopefully, I would not be associated with a bakery that made questionable cakes. I think it would be fine to have a policy of no profane, derogatory cakes too.

    But there are bakeries that have an anything goes approach. I shared such a very rude cake with a good friend once. Our birthdays were a day apart and his BF got the most foul, rude, gay sexually obscene cake you could imagine and had it brought out after dinner in an Italian restaurant filled with older straight folks. I was never so horrified. I still have pics of that damn cake.

    In fact, one argument I used to have years ago in San Francisco with some was that they felt gay establishments could discriminate and only hire gay workers. I was strongly opposed to that as well. It’s hypocritcal to expect to be treated fairly but then treat others unfairly.

  418. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    A law that violations a Constitutional protection, such as the First Amendment which prohibits any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion, is void. The difficulty in the cake case is there are several potentially conflicting constitutional provisions that come into play, and they need to be reconciled by the court. Its complex and no one knows what will be the outcome.

    The best outcome would be for all sides to call it a draw and end the matter. It really was a stupid case. Suing over decorating a cake; assume there were a lot of other local bakeries the couple could have gone to. In a way, what the Supreme Court may have been saying was “just go away.”

  419. SanDiegoCitizen says:


    “Jerry Maren, the last surviving munchkin from “The Wizard of Oz,” has died at age 98 due to complications from congestive heart failure, according to his family

  420. Tgca says:

    I have had a habit of taking unfavorable positions on gay issues in the past. LisaB eluded to that earlier in one of her posts where she reminded me of an old conversation, probably 8 to 10 years ago.

    But if I may, since San Diego and others are sharing, I will share a very personal story about an old friend and someone I was quite fond of and something close to my heart that pains me still to this day, and that I was thinking about just last week before any of this silly cake issue.

    I had a gay friend. We hit it off really well and spent a lot of time together for a couple of years. We were almost like siblings.

    Then I moved to San Francisco. He followed me out there from Jersey almost a year later. A really big step for him as he wasn’t very independent. But once he got there, he became rather radical and associated with some of the more radical gays and groups. We ended up seeing less of each other until there was really no direct contact. He affiliated himself with gays that would purposely do things to piss folks off like go as groups into straight bars and start being all touchy and feely and kissy to make a point. I was extremely opposed to this in your face confrontational behavior, as I did not think it helped progress gay acceptance, not even in San Francisco at that time.

    I guess we were on different planes in our life. We were in our 20s and he was HIV+ and I was not I did not live with that daily fear he did of whether the next cough or sneeze would be the onset towards the end. Clearly, these newfound friendships and political statements were therapeutic for him. I failed to understand that and we just grew apart very quickly. I would check in every 4 to 6 months with his roommate. One day I called and his roommate told me he went back home to Jersey to be with his family recently, and then had passed away the previous week.

    This was very painful for me so I went to a local bar and drank my sorrows away for a few hours. I always thought we would reconcile again once he went through his phase. I never really thought that he would succumb to and die from AIDS in such a short time since he always seemed to be doing well and we were young.

    The moral of this story is that I did take stances contrary to expectations of my people or kind so I wasn’t a gay puppet or parrot, and I chose my positions based on my beliefs but in that process, I seriously blundered and never got the opportunity to rekindle my friendship and say goodbye to someone I had once been very close with. I still think of him often after 2 decades since his passing so though generally my conservative views have not changed, I do try to balance them more sensitively so what may appear to some as me being overly sensitive or dramatic, understand that is my way of trying to make a conscious effort to understand not only how these issues impact me but others as well.

    I can never go back and say good-bye, ask his forgiveness for my insensitivity, hug him again, or laugh so hard together as we used to since we fed off each other in that way. But I can learn from that experience to try to understand how issues impact others even if I don’t agree with them.

  421. Bitterlaw says:

    Tgca – Thank you for sharing. You are a thoughtful person with a beautiful soul.

    Since I started posting here, I have tried to maintain the view that most people who don’t agree with me are not evil. They are just wrong or do not share my opinions. For example, I wish Tim posted here more often. He is a hard core Democrat but I know hat does great work advocating for autistic children. Tim V. and I had many disagreements over his sincere belief that I would burn in Hell. However, I am happy to report that as far as I can tell, he beat the cancer that almost killed him.

    I am sorry for the death of your friend. That must be hard but I think you are dealing with it the best you can. I am sure your
    method is better than mine. My mom died 16 years ago. Whenever I think of her, I push away the sadness by remembering all the nights she was drunk and remember that she loved cigarettes more than her family.

  422. mnw says:

    Tgca 419

    Col. Ralph Peters is my second “Et tu, Brute?” shock this week. Campaign Carl Cameron was the first.

    Those 2 guys were both among my favorites in their FOX News days.

  423. jason says:

    I may be wrong. I hope I am wrong. I hope Putin doesn’t have a grip on him”

    So Peters has nothing.

    And yet he gets to go on CNN to express his “feelings”.

    Wobbie would be proud.

  424. DW says:

    “Charlie Cook joins in by moving a bunch of NJ and CA House seats toward the Democrats. None were moved toward the GOP”

    I went to Cook’s web site and don’t see any changes yet….do you have a link?

  425. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    The wisest of the wise men at Red Racing Horses, roguemapper, sees the big blue wave in CA after Tuesday’s primaries. He predicts a 6 seat Democrat pick-up. Why? He draws a straight line between primary turnout in recent past CA elections to Tuesday’s results. This green shade bean counter sees everything as predictable.
    The main imponderable is that in November, on the CA ballot, will be a repeal provision for the HATED gas tax. GOP turnout should spike.

    In 2014, roguemapper predicted a significant Kay Hagan(D) victory over Thom Tillis(R) in the NC Senate race after 5000 early votes were cast because of the voting pattern!

  426. DW says:

    431 – some people should stick to the day job

  427. Sheeple, JR. says:

    From Dave Wasserman at the Cook Political Report:

    #CA49: OPEN (R): Lean D (was Toss Up)
    #CA25: Knight (R): Toss Up
    #CA48: Rohrabacher (R): Toss Up
    #CA39: OPEN (R): Toss Up
    #CA10: Denham (R): Toss Up
    #CA45: Walters (R): Lean R
    #CA21: Valadao (R): LIkely R (was Lean R)

    36 replies 242 retweets 380 likes
    Reply 36 Retweet 242 Like 380

    Dave Wasserman
    Verified account

    17h17 hours ago
    Here’s how we rate/rank NJ’s Dem pickup opportunities following last night:

    #NJ02: OPEN (R) – Likely D (was Lean D)
    #NJ11: OPEN (R) – Lean D (was Toss Up)
    #NJ07: Rep. Leonard Lance (R) – Toss Up
    #NJ03: Rep. Tom MacArthur (R) – Lean R

    We’ll have more at @CookPolitical soon.

  428. Redmen4ever says:

    Because it’s legal …

    Gay marriage is legal because the country is committed to equal rights and will not tolerate a situation where thousands of rewards (and penalties) are attached to being married and certain people cannot (honestly) marry.

    Does this mean public school children must be taught that gay marriage and homosexuality are to be taught as acceptable and to be celebrated? Along with: abortion, assisted suicide, nudity, gambling, guns, eating red meat, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana and prostitution where these things are legal?

    In a free society, the government does not legislate morality but, rather, protects us from each other (and from foreign invasion). If all of our actions were private and between (or among) consenting adults, none of these things are anybody’s business. But, there are shared spaces and matters of decorum. There are concerns about children and other vulnerable people, even when in private. And then there are government schools.

    The best way to be a free society and respect the very different values individuals have is to privatize schooling. Having said this, there are issues of public policy that private schools that accept state funds (e.g., vouchers) would have to respect (e.g., no discrimination by race).

    Most of the democratic countries of the world embrace parental control of schooling, some more than others. But, even where parental control is “fully” embraced, there are limits.

  429. jason says:

    Tgca – Thank you for sharing. You are a thoughtful person with a beautiful soul.”

    Gayest post of the day.

  430. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    A new NBC Poll shows The Donald’s approval spiking 4 pts. to 44% from their last poll, but the Generic Congressional Ballot going from D+7 to D+10. 900 Adults polled.

  431. mnw says:

    Thx, DW.

    I dunno what to think. I always skip CA political news because…flatline hopeless. However, your gas tax theory seems logical.

    As stated in previous posts, the one and only thing I DO get from Tuesday is that Tester’s in a heap’o’trouble! THAT I know. People can talk all they want about Tester’s FR advantage, but MT isn’t NY or CA. Paid media is cheap. Rosendale will be competitive because… CFG like$ him, among other$.


    RRH. What can u say? I don’t wanna bore everybody about RRH too much. Most posters prolly don’t care. If RRH was a stock, I’d sell that dog in a nanosecond. Vastblightking conspiracy is my personal un-favorite. Ogglby (sp?) is an admitted DEM & a close #2. Btw, I saw Rdel post there yesterday. Wish he were back here to give us on the ground reports from TN. Maybe jason drove him off too. He said he didn’t like the “bad language” here….the sanctimonious little mfoker!

  432. dblaikie says:

    NBC polls are bogus, just like all media polling. But to poll just adults is a simple, downright cover up with only a few months left until the election. I wonder what the numbers would be if they really tried to be accurate with a likely voter screen? I think I know — an oncoming red wave.

  433. mnw says:


    db has a point. There is NOTHING ON EARTH I care less about than the political views of those who aren’t registered to vote.

  434. Bitterlaw says:

    We already have private schools for those who want them and can afford them. I believe that more charter schools should be available. I am a strong believer in public schools. I fear no teacher or lesson plan. I want my children exposed to different and potentially offensive views. Isolating them in a private school just delays exposure to the real world. However, if other parents feel differently, I support their right to choose the school they want,

  435. mnw says:


    In CA, affluent people are taking their kids out of public schools en masse. It’s an ’emerging trend,’ as you & I might say. No diversity for them! Get me outta here!

    DW & Sheep

    Fwiw, both Barone & Schoen conclude in separate articles that the Tuesday primaries should be considered encouraging for the GOP.

  436. DW says:

    “I want my children exposed to different and potentially offensive views”

    Exactly why I believe in homeschool, so my kids will learn views that are definitely offensive to the liberal indoctrination centers known as public schools. My kids will actually get to learn truth and error, rather than just being indoctrinated with error.

  437. Waingro says:

    Yikes, RCP Generic ballot now back to D+ 7.4. A bunch of ugly polls for GOP dropped last night and this morning.

  438. Bitterlaw says:

    mnw – I live in an affluent town (but not everybody is affluent, of course). Our school district is one of the top 5 in PA. Despite that high quality, more than 50% of the students in the town go private schools or religiously affiliated schools. Some of these schools charge $30-35k per student per year. Even if I had the money, I would not pay that.

  439. mnw says:

    BL– My point went more to the perceived decline in “good” CA public schools. Decades of liberal social experiments have achieved results, apparently. VDH has addressed that in some detail.

  440. Waingro says:

    Love for this to be true, but I’m skeptical, as I usually am of Ras without the Ras polls these days.

    Rasmussen Reports
    ?Verified account @Rasmussen_Poll
    19s20 seconds ago

    #Republicans Are More Eager to #Vote This Year Than #Democrats #BreakingPoll #MidtermElections #midterms #Election2018

  441. Redmen4ever says:

    The jump in the RCP generic congressional ballot:

    I’m wondering what is the narrative? What changed in terms of the fundamentals that would swing voting intentions in the manner indicated? In the absence of a narrative, my tendency is to go with the average of a larger sample than provided by the RCP methodology. Including the recently released polls, my monthly average shows a D+4 edge, which I think, given its historical bias, is a neutral reading. Of course, if these recent polls are validated by those to be released in the forthcoming weeks, then we’re talking about a Democratic advantage sufficient for them to take control of the House.

    The economy is kicking into high gear. The same NBC/WSJ poll that showed the Rs with a 10 point deficit in generic congressional, even larger than Trump’s 9 point deficit in presidential approval, also showed 71 percent saying the economy has improved, of which 44 give Trump some credit. Something seems disjoint. The Republicans are counting on the economy continuing strong through the election, and people figuring out that your need Trump and a Republican Congress for this to continue.

  442. lisab says:

    Rudy Giuliani danced to EDM at a restaurant in Israel

    it is the end of times!!!!!

  443. lisab says:

    I’m wondering what is the narrative?

    the dems are having a civil war right now

    the youngster dems are very very far left, but likely won’t turn out in large numbers in mid-terms

    the older dems are just very far left, and still want to say they are for the military and fiscal responsibility — but that will turn off the youngsters

  444. mnw says:

    This is from behind RAS private deal, but somebody posted it at another site. (RAS used this as a teaser this morning):

    “72% of GOP LVs say they are more likely to vote this year than in past elections. Ditto 64% of DEM LVs. Ditto 51% of unaffiliated LVs. Among all LVs, 62% say they are more likely to vote & 6% say lass likely.”

  445. Redmen4ever says:

    B – in terms of making private schools illegal, only one democratic country (Greece) does that. The state of Oregon, upon an initiative sponsored by the KKK in 1927, tried to make private schools illegal, but was shot down by the U.S. Supreme Court. So, allowing private schools to exist is pretty mainstream thinking. The question democracies face is whether all parents (not just those who can afford private tuition) should control the education of children. Almost all democracies provide vouchers or some other form of financing to support parental choice.

    I take it you believe it is a good thing that conservative students have to deal with liberal faculty. Does this mean you also think liberal students should have to deal with conservative faculty? With college faculties in the humanities and social sciences (other than economics) 30-to-1 liberal, where are liberal students going to get the education that comes with dealing with opposing views? Do you think colleges should seek diversity in viewpoint for their faculty to further the education that comes with dealing with opposing views?

  446. mnw says:

    WG 446

    This seems of a piece with what u posted.

  447. Waingro says:

    #447, one possibility I’ve seen cited is Trump’s recent tariffs/protectionist push as outlined here:

  448. DW says:

    Younger Dems think that government is simply this grand benevolent Sugar-daddy Santa Claus who only desires to shower us with money and gifts, but is opposed by the evil forces of greedy Republicans who try to steal Santa Claus’s gifts at every turn.

    They cannot understand why anyone would wish to stop the government from giving us everything we want.

  449. Redmen4ever says:

    Presidential approval: RAS: even, IDB: -19 (and two years ago, these polls were generating similar results)

  450. mnw says:


    Blankenship has started a petition drive to get on the ballot as the Constitution Party candidate.

  451. mnw says:

    Call me cynical, but I suspect 90% of those signing B’ship’s petition will be Manchin supporters.

  452. Redmen4ever says:

    453 – I’ve been tracking public opinion on trade for some time. Public opinion turned negative during and subsequent to the recession of 2007-2009. But has since reverted to positive. As long as Trump merely blathered about the matter, his supporters were happy and those who know a little bit about how trade works, could think this is just talk. But, eventually push was going to come to shove. Either Trump was going to announce face-saving re-negotiation of trade deals so as to satisfy his supporters while avoiding any real harm, or else we would wind up in trade wars that would hurt our export sectors. The WTO allows us to impose compensatory tariffs on countries that dump products on us below cost (as China could be said to do, with steel). But the tariffs on Canada and Europe on steel, although smaller, seem gratuitous and just stupid if we want to argue that we’re opposed dumping (as we’re allowed to) and not going protectionist.

  453. Chicon says:

    457 – it is possible to be cynical and correct, mi amigo.

  454. BayernFan says:

    447…. gas prices

  455. NYCmike says:

    “447…. gas prices”

    -And that would affect Republicans??

    Maybe every Republican candidate should try to nationalize the higher California gas tax as a reason to vote FOR REPUBLICANS……just say, OVER AND OVER, if you elect a Democrat, they will seek higher gas taxes.

    If those are the questions on the campaign trail to candidates, that would be better for Republicans, I would think.

  456. lisab says:

    just ask the questions

    a.) do you favor rolling back the trump tax cuts?

    b.) do you think trump should be impeached?

    c.) do you support the nfl players kneeling during the pledge of allegiance?

    of every candidate.

    dem candidates almost have to say yes to all three, which are vote losers among most voters

  457. NYCmike says:

    -Bitterlaw mentioned Tim from GA earlier……I am sure he is a wonderful person, if Bitterlaw says so, and would enjoy him posting more often as well…..he could then explain how Social Security is NOT a government approved Ponzi scheme.

  458. BayernFan says:

    461 and 462. GOP won’t do that. At least not as part of a national tactic. The GOP will play defense. Pretty much all they know.

  459. NYCmike says:

    “The GOP will play defense. Pretty much all they know.”

    -Trump’s 3AM Twitter habit may have something to say about that.

  460. Chicon says:

    Lisa, I would add one more…. Are MS-13 members animals?

  461. NYCmike says:

    I think Robbie is out making a cake for the biggest TRUMP CHUMP of them all – Happy 59th Birthday Mr. Vice President Mike Pence!

  462. Chicon says:

    I think Manchin sees trouble ahead in his race. He said today it was a mistake to support Clinton in 2016, and he’ll stand with Trump when he agrees with him. Seems desperate to me.

    Morissey should ask him Lisa’s questions above.

  463. Chicon says:

    I heard Robbie is now an Alex Jones devotee.

  464. NYCmike says:


  465. BayernFan says:

    Trumps full throated support of coal will do Manchin in. He shoulda switched parties when he had the chance.

  466. Mr.Vito says:


    in the recent yougov poll, the midwest had basically the same Trump approval as the south and west, but a big gap on the congressional ballot compared to good numbers for the others. One of the big differences is they want the next republican leader to be less conservative.

    The wide perception is that this is a do-nothing congress in the poll, and I wonder if they see Trump doing things daily and congress sitting on its hands.

    Is this about the trade policy? How is that playing out there?

  467. Tgca says:

    I was DUH beneficiary of DUH excellent Newark NJ public school system. My EDUMACATION was 1st class and employed excellent teaching aids like Ebonics workbooks to ready me for life in DUH hood in my YOOT. We learned so much during DAT experience DAT some of us was prepared for life by 15 or 16 and we didn’t need no more schooling. DOH some of us went back later for advanced training and got our GED.

    I agree WIT Bitter and advocate for diversity in learning at an early age DAT you won’t get in DUH isolated home schooling environment.

    DIS diversity opportunity also was critical in developing social skills DAT allowed me to interact with UDDERS in my community who were different DEN me. WIT out DEESE opportunities I would not have learned important dialect and pronunciation DAT allowed me to effectively communicate WIT UDDERS. DIS may not seem important to you but I assure you DAT DEESE communication skills helped in everyday life when I was 6 or 7 year-old WEDDER we were out in DUH playground, in DUH classroom, or chatting in DUH BAFROOM during a cigarette break.

    It also helped me develop effective team work so like we could strip a car in a matter of minutes. I developed sporting and dexterity skills too such as handling a switchblade or snatching an item from a shelf in the store unnoticed. DIS was in addition to developing my coordination and speed to outrun DUH cops and rivals in DUH hood.

    I miss DOSE days and DUH friends I made. All I have is my memories now because we didn’t have all DUH techno gadgets we have today so I don’t even have any PITCHERS of my friends back DEN. Some of us got seperated and I never got DUH chance to reconnect because DUH detention centers were too far away to visit. Every now and DEN I get a bit nostalgic and look up people on a Facebook, or DUH NJ Criminal Database to see what DEY might be up to.

    So to DOSE who prefer DUH private schooling route, I say you don’t know what you’re missing. My Newark public schooling made me DUH well-rounded person I am today.

  468. jason says:

    Btw, I saw Rdel post there yesterday. Wish he were back here to give us on the ground reports from TN. Maybe jason drove him off too.”

    Nah, Rdel got a lot of flak for “re-weighting” polls but most of it was not from me. I would like to see him back too.

    Can I take credit for driving Polaris off? Or Bunu? Or Boncaruso? I accept checks too.

  469. Chicon says:

    Interesting events in Illinois politics. Mike Madigan is the Speaker of the House – has been since Walt was a kid. He runs the Illinois and Chicago political machines. He’s been at was with governor Rauner since the governor’s arrival. His hand-picked guy, Pritzker is running for governor in November.

    Madigan’s Chief of Staff/Hatchet Man has been forced to resign after harassment charges. Could be some impact on the governor’s race, and perhaps US House races? How much impact? Only Robbie knows for sure.

  470. jason says:

    You have to love the MSM.

    NBC headline… Trump support deeper, but not broader.

  471. Chicon says:

    Polaris was pure entertainment…

  472. Chicon says:

    476 – Doh, Madigan is at war with Rauner.

  473. Tgca says:

    Leave Polaris alone! He was not a bad fella. I don’t recall Boncaruso though it sounds familiar.

    Chekote was my favorite. Fierce Italian babe. She got along with all here quite interestingly.

  474. jason says:

    This will get Wobbie and CG excited…

    ‘CNN has added one of the nation’s most prominent impeachment experts to their “legal analyst” roster. Ross Garber, a partner at Shipman & Goodwin, announced on Twitter that he is “thrilled to be joining the @CNN team as a Legal Analyst. Hoping to help make sense of the day’s legal news.”

  475. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Read a New York Times article claiming how well the Democrats did in Tuesday’s election. It pointed out that the Democrats gained a former Republican seat in the Missouri legislature. Somehow it omitted to mention that the Republicans gained at state senate seat from the Democrats in California. Am sure it was an oversight.

  476. Poul Harris says:

    Hey Chicon, GFY.

    – Poul Harris

  477. jason says:

    Boncaruso was a Eurotrash moonbat.

    He claimed to be in Ohio but got busted one day wishing people goodnight at 4 PM.

  478. Tgca says:

    Damn! We are having one helluva T-storm right now. Pouring here like crazy and extremely loud rumbliing thunder. Not outside so can’t see the lightning but it’s deafening noise.

    Well, at least the iguana poop will get washed off my boat dock.

  479. jason says:

    Venezuela named most dangerous country to live in for the 2nd year in a row.

    Proud ObamaCON’s socialist paradise!

  480. jason says:

    We called those storms turd floaters down in Texas, so it fits the description.

  481. Tgca says:

    Hugo Chavez is missed. He was misunderstood by many.

    RIP you #$&@*

    Sean Penn thought Hugo was fascinating guy and did incredible things for most in Venezuela. He attended vigil for this remarkable man too.

  482. Bitterlaw says:

    Red men – It would be great if there were more conservative professors. Go get your PhD and become one.

    I had many liberal professors. One of them was driven out of Jamaica because he was a communist. I received an A in both classes he taught. He wrote on one paper “I disagree with everything you wrote but you argued your points well.”

  483. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    440. “We already have private schools for those who want them and can afford them. I believe that more charter schools should be available. I am a strong believer in public schools. I fear no teacher or lesson plan. I want my children exposed to different and potentially offensive views.”

    I agree on charter schools. We have excellent charter schools in San Diego. One in my neighborhood I am involved with, and everyone is very proud of the job they do. There is a demographic diversity in the students in charter schools, they will take a lot of students who cannot pay. There are charter schools in Latino and Asian neighborhoods too.

    The purpose of a school is to educate a student to learn skills so they can get a good job and effectively function as an educated adult. Because of the teachers unions and bureaucratic gridlock, public schools fail at doing this. What they have become is expensive babysitters. The kids often are not learning, and spend there time basically vegetating. Choices in education are important. Unfortunately, the unions are doing their best in California to limit charter schools.

  484. jason says:

    e wrote on one paper “I disagree with everything you wrote but you argued your points well.”

    He was the exception rather than the rule.

    Try being a conservative on campus now. My kids say if you let on you are conservative your grades will suffer. Badly.

  485. Tgca says:

    Per Drudge link, we find out Joy Reid was threatening folks she worked with in her radio days and had a foul mouth. She created a toxic environment. This is just shocking! Shocking I tell you! shocking!

    This was from her boss and corroborated by other station manager. They also believe she’s a liar about her excuses of how her blog got hacked.

    Why are these guys picking on her. #MeToo, where are you?

  486. jason says:

    fear no teacher or lesson plan.”

    Very naive.

    If brain washing didn’t work the communists would not use it.

    It works, maybe not for those who have either the exposure or the interest in opposing views, but for the vast majority.

    And “lesson plans” that teaches revisionist history is not to be “feared”? That the founding father’s were evil usurping racist murderers? That’s ok?

  487. jason says:

    Joy Reid is a Dem.

    She was misunderstood.

  488. Tgca says:


    Stop whining and complaining. Why you raising your kids to be conservatives? Clearly, that’s the problem! Take some accountability dude.

  489. Tgca says:

    I think part of the problem with education is the lack of consistency and focus. There should be like one national university with coordinated programming locations throughout the US that sync up the various programs. For example, the

    US National University of Berkeley – NYC
    US National University of Berkeley – Boston
    US National University of Berkeley – Miami
    US National University of Berkeley – Chicago

  490. jason says:

    Not only that, US National Universities should PAY students to attend, on the grounds they could be getting welfare if they weren’t attending.

  491. NYCmike says:

    “He claimed to be in Ohio but got busted one day wishing people goodnight at 4 PM.”

    -Wasn’t he German or something?

  492. Diamond Jim says:


  493. NYCmike says:


  494. jason says:

    Why you raising your kids to be conservatives? Clearly, that’s the problem! Take some accountability dude.”

    You have a point.

    I think they will be disappointed living in a nanny state world.

    Had I raised them as socialists, they would probably be happier.

  495. jason says:

    Yeah, the Eurotrash was in Germany.

  496. Tgca says:

    So tomorrow I have my 2nd follow-up surgical visit. My walking has improved but not off the walker yet. Still problems with one leg spazzing out so retraining myself to walk properly. The incision area is still a bit swollen and feels like a massive tumor in the lower back so when I lie down it’s an eery feeling.

    But most disturbing is the hideous scar. Gay pride is approaching later this month so I’m devastated I will be unable to stroll the Fort Lauderdale beaches in my thong or mankini because of this hideous scar.

  497. Chicon says:

    Tgca, hang in there. And do what the doctor says to do. Don’t overdue the rehab unless they give the ok – starting over would stink.

  498. Chicon says:

    The brother of one of my best friends died very suddenly of a pulmonary embolism recently. Talking on the phone to dead in seconds. It made me wonder if anything similar was the cause of any departures from here. Of course, not Gary Maxwell, with his epic departure.

  499. mnw says:


    What Chicon said.

    Seems to me there has been a real dearth of head-to-head polls lately. I had thought Monmouth was gonna drop a bunch, but…one only.

    RRH has a big election night deal going on now– if u r fascinated by provincial elections in Ontario.

  500. Mr.Vito says:

    “Had I raised them as socialists, they would probably be happier.”

    None of them ever seem happy to me.

  501. mnw says:

    I wish Trump would do himself a favor and STFU.

  502. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Is it possible that after the 2018 election cycle, every New England Governor will be a Republican?Rhode Island may do it!

  503. Chicon says:

    Mnw, they say too much or too little of any personality trait is a bad thing. The President is a good example – his mouth has both helped and hurt him.

  504. GF says:

    475- I tangled a bit with Bonn and Bunu, I take partial credit there.

    Also somewhat with Chek (“Scissors”), though MD really deserves the plaudits for bagging that haul.

    CCCP is all mine, however; he was never the same after the beat down I laid upon him, limping about here and there until the rise of DJT and defeat of his pant-suited goddess finished him off for good.

  505. Cash Cow TM says:

    There is some good news today.

    DRUDGE has a link ip of some cow in the upper
    Midwest giving birth to quadruplets.

    A REAL cow…

  506. Tgca says:

    Who is CCCP?

    Leave Chekote alone. She was mine!

  507. GF says:

    Cory from Alberta, the Canadian Marxist. Like my diatribe against Bunu, I smashed him largely on terror/national security issues (with a bit of everything else mixed in). I didn’t think about it at the time, but MD said it was a total smack-down, and since CCCP stuttered and wobbled away from that argument, I’ll take it.

  508. Cash Cow TM says:

    Chekote was a hot mess.

  509. Tgca says:

    Oh, I remember Canadian Cory. I had to show him some simple math one night since his formulae were incorrect. My undergrad was Math and he argues over a simple calculations he had wrong. I think it was me and LisaB pounding him on it. That was so long ago. Maybe 8 years. Haven’t seen him in forever.

  510. NYCmike says:

    GF going MD-style on Cory!

    Toot that horn, sailor!

  511. NYCmike says:

    -OK, YES, I do want a 3-way (Democrat Cuomo, WFP Nixon, Republican TBD) because Ms. Nixon is a lesbian!

    SUE ME!

    PLUS, it will give the Republican a better chance of winning if all 3 make it to the general election.

  512. Chicon says:

    I wonder if Bitter retained a copy of Gary Maxwell’s departure rant. Good stuff, as I recall.

  513. NYCmike says:

    -Most of the McD’s in Hudson County, NJ have the kiosks already…….much easier to deal with them than with a human being. You can take your time, look at other options, change your mind, etc…

  514. NYCmike says:


    The speech/comment will be reproduced within the hour.

    Bet on it.

  515. GF says:

    522- Not until Maxwell Day, it is a tradition here. In August if I recall, maybe the 8th?

  516. NYCmike says:


    I keep thinking that MD will appear oh so briefly to celebrate…..don’t think it happened last year….

  517. NYCmike says:

    On Instapundit – notice the special exemption for pools, jacuzzis and such – You can’t make this cr*p up!:

    BLUE STATE BLUES: Californians May Have to Choose Between Showers and Laundry with New 55-Gallon Water Limit. “They’re now paying the price for decades of Democrat inaction on the problem.”

    Urban water suppliers will monitor water usage by California residents, with the law stipulating that they “shall use satellite imagery, site visits, or other best available technology to develop an accurate estimate of landscaped areas.” Note the use of the word “shall,” which means they must do it.

    The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that the average American uses 80-100 gallons of water per day.

    Plus, water rationing for thee but not for me:

    Wealthy California residents, however, got a special dispensation from the legislature. There are to be special provisions for swimming pools, spas, “and other water features” that use a lot of water.

    Read the whole thing.

    Exit question: How many clean, nuclear-powered desalination plants could California have built for the money they’ve wasted on high-speed rail?

  518. Tgca says:

    What did Maxwell do? I don’t remember.

    MD was always on a rant. Probably the angriest poster here EVAH! I don’t think the guy was stable.

  519. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    A new FOX News poll has The Donald’s approval at 45% and the Congressional Generic Ballot at D+9 although the GOP is +6 with Independents.
    Please explain to me why the PID for the poll is D+10.

  520. Mr.Vito says:

    “We’re entitled to see every single draft,” Dershowitz said.

    He said the report also reinforces that there was no need to appoint Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

    “We have the inspector general. He is independent, he does a great job. All of this could have been done through the Justice Department [and] regular lawyers,” Dershowitz said. “You don’t need to bring in a multi-million dollar group of people with a target on the back of specific individuals.”

    “That’s not the way justice should operate.”

  521. Redmen4ever says:

    Both Fox and NBD/WSJ: Trump’s job approval is running ahead of the Republicans in the Generic Congressional Ballot.

  522. Tina says:


    Dom investigating an ex drat staffer for leaking, likely aligned with Frankenstein.

  523. jason says:

    I give Trump the credit for getting rid of Kommie Kory.

    Of course, I might have helped with my constant reminder that he was the most math challenged poster here.

  524. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    525. “BLUE STATE BLUES: Californians May Have to Choose Between Showers and Laundry with New 55-Gallon Water Limit. “They’re now paying the price for decades of Democrat inaction on the problem.”

    Am going to give my county major kudos. San Diego County once was 95% dependent on water supplied by the state (Metro Water Authority). That as fallen to 40%, and should decrease to just 13% in 2035.

    Why the decrease? Now 10% of all the water used in San Diego County is now from a desalinization plant. Also 7% of the water used is recycled; and better irrigation practices in Imperial County agriculture has allowed more us of Colorado River water. There is a major effort to increase the use of recycled water, and build reservoirs that will contain recycled water. Its is impressive what they are doing.

  525. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    If people are wondering why there was no blue tsunami in the progressive paradise of California last Tuesday, Here is Joe Kotkin’s take on the state’s politics on the website “New Geography”.

    “Last year saw the first signs of a middle-class pushback. A handful of largely Latino and inland Democrats—some backed by the state’s residual energy industry—killed Brown’s attempt to force a 50 percent reduction in fossil-fuel use by 2030, a measure that, opponents alleged, would have necessitated gas rationing. Millennials—faced with diminishing prospects for good jobs and homeownership—could break with progressives and demand a change. They might begin to ask the uncomfortable questions that Californians must answer if they are to avoid bankruptcy: Do we update our water systems, pave our roads, fix our bridges, hire cops, and improve schools—or continue to pay for some of the country’s most lavish green incentives and other costly progressive measures? One recent survey suggests that young people are less likely to identify as “environmentalist” than previous generations. They could conceivably turn to an unconventional figure, like independent gubernatorial candidate Michael Shellenberger, a maverick who threatens to disrupt the status quo by removing barriers to middle-class growth and reviving the Pat Brown legacy.”

    The fact 59% of the voters in an Orange County district voted to recall their state senator, and replace him with a Republican, is a warning shot. The gas tax repeal will be on the ballot in November. Its going to increase voter turn-out.

  526. mnw says:


    I suspect u r right about increased turnout. I think DW made that point earlier, too.

    On another subject, DEMs have got pushback in PA-01. Their candidate is enmeshed in charges of anti-Semitism, because his foundation has contributed heavily to BDS outfits. He’s getting slammed for it.

  527. jason says:

    “Had I raised them as socialists, they would probably be happier.”

    None of them ever seem happy to me.”

    My kids seem unhappy?

    I meant in the future come the nanny state they will probably be unhappy having been raised with a different ideology.

  528. Mr.Vito says:

    “I meant in the future come the nanny state they will probably be unhappy having been raised with a different ideology.”

    But they would be socialists… none of which ever seem to be happy to me.

  529. Mr.Vito says:

    At least raising them as you have they would have a chance at not being miserable.

  530. jason says:

    I am not worried about the water restrictions, llamas are hardy creatures and don’t require a lot of water.

  531. NYCmike says:

    “My kids seem unhappy?”

    -Mr Vito was speaking about “socialists” in general.

  532. NYCmike says:

    -I expect nobody to go to jail……does that make me cynical?

  533. NYCmike says:

    Stanley Cup game is another good one!

  534. Wes says:

    So Blankenship intends to violate the clearly stated law in West Virginia to help Joe Manchin win reelection.

    I imagine Mikey and Schumer are off smiling somewhere assuming Blankenship can succeed in his patently illegal maneuver.

    JC, what say you?

    You told us the base loathes the national GOP. Well, the base rejected Blankenship in favor of the more electable Morissey last month. Will the base now try to screw over its chosen standard bearer for a sore loser?

  535. Wes says:

    If California has a water problem necessitating such rationing, why don’t they just invest in new desalinization plants so as to create more usable water from the massive ocean directly west of the state?

  536. Wes says:

    My favorite response from GF to CCCP:

    You always were an areshole, Cory.

    I coined CCCP by the way.

    It means Cory the Canadian Communist Poster. Not coincidentally it is the same letters used for the acronum of the old Soviet Union’s name.

  537. mnw says:


    1) I don’t understand your point at all. The GOP base decisively rejected B’ship.

    This latest deal is all on him. He isn’t responding to popular demand! He is a nuisance candidate now. It happens.

    2) CA is opposed to desalinization because it would necessitate nuclear power to run the plants, according to what I’ve read.

  538. Wes says:

    Mnw, I was needling another poster who explained Blankenship was supposedly leading in the primary by saying the base loathes the national GOP.

    Well, the base chose someone other than Blankenship, so I was asking said poster if they loathe the national party so much they’ll now support Blankenship (assuming he manages to break the law and get on the ballot) over Morissey, thus reelecting Manchin and screwing the national party out of a prime pickup.

  539. Cash Cow TM says:


  540. Cash Cow TM says:


    ok…that is enough watching this foolishness and disorganized mayhem that I do not understand…off to do other things.

  541. Cash Cow TM says:

    Blankenship…phfft…always a nuisance candidate, but might draw just enough to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and hand Manchin the keys to D.C. for another 6 years.

  542. Tina says:

    The staffer is from the Warner burr useless committee.

    That committee needs to close up shop on the Russian hoax.

  543. lisab says:

    ontario had elections today

    populism won

    large losses by the liberals

  544. lisab says:

    the ontario election is about as surprising as when the terminator won in california

  545. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    546. “2) CA is opposed to desalinization because it would necessitate nuclear power to run the plants, according to what I’ve read.”

    Actually the Carlsbad desalination plant runs on any type of energy supplied by SDG&E, the local utility company. It obtains its water from an adjacent natural gas plant, which used it for cooling.

    Environmentalists bitterly opposed the plant, which is the largest desalination plant in the Western Hemisphere, because they hate all progress and technology. There wacky, irrational people.

    The desalination plant has to buy carbon credits, because of its use of energy produces carbon emissions. This just makes the water more expensive.

    Huntington Beach and Rosarito Beach, Mexico are also looking at desalination plants. The much of the water from the plant in Mexico would be piped into the U.S. To her credit, former Senator Barbara Boxer actually wrote an op ed piece in the LA Times in support of the Huntington Beach project.

  546. janz says:

    I can’t believe Barbara Boxer would be so sensible.

    It seems that CA has become incorrigibly insane in it’s management of this state. The policies the democratic controlled legislative body pushes are “La La Land” in their fiscal implementation. And, the people who seem to vote them in, like zombies, are either into magical thinking idealism or self-serving freebies.

  547. lisab says:

    actually, it is becoming a point of contention among “greens” in the usa regarding pushing problems, like coal usage, to other countries

    the “new” idea being the realization that if the usa uses coal, or whatever, to desalinate water, we will most likely do it in a reasonably clean way

    mexico not so much

    soooooooooooo … just offshoring these problems means we are causing MORE pollution in the world not less.

  548. lisab says:

    the VAST majority of plastic in the oceans for example is from asia

  549. JC says:

    Wes says:
    June 7, 2018 at 10:13 pm
    So Blankenship intends to violate the clearly stated law in West Virginia to help Joe Manchin win reelection.

    I imagine Mikey and Schumer are off smiling somewhere assuming Blankenship can succeed in his patently illegal maneuver.

    JC, what say you?

    You told us the base loathes the national GOP. Well, the base rejected Blankenship in favor of the more electable Morissey last month. Will the base now try to screw over its chosen standard bearer for a sore loser?

    First of all, don’t be like BL and put words in people’s mouths. I have never supported Blankenship and was glad that he lost.

    And secondly, what’s your damn point? Are you suggesting that the base does not loath the GOP establishment? Like what are you trying to prove here? That because primary voters didn’t nominate a convicted felon who was rejected by Trump in the most Trumpy state in the union, that somehow everything is fine and dandy with GOP unity.

    I don’t know what you are ‘responding’ to, but the only point I have ever made was that the dem base is quite happy with their party because they feel that their leaders are on their side. This is NOT the case for Republicans. And it hasn’t been so for over a decade.

  550. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    557. “actually, it is becoming a point of contention among “greens” in the usa regarding pushing problems, like coal usage, to other countries.”

    Agree with you lisab. But the Chinese are rapidly switching from coal to natural gas, as is much of the world. China increased natural gas use last year by 42%. Europe is also using a lot more natural gas, lead by Germany, who now realizes their renewable energy push had disappointing results, and was grossly expensive.

    “China’s LNG consumption leapt 42 percent last year to almost match European imports, which climbed 20 percent. Whereas the Asian nation needs the fuel mostly to replace dirtier coal, Europe needs it to offset rapidly declining domestic production.”

    Several months ago people were bragging about England’s record breaking wind production. Now they are going to have several weeks of no wind energy at all.

    “Britain’s gone nine days with almost no wind generation, and forecasts show the calm conditions persisting for another two weeks.
    The wind drought has pushed up day-ahead power prices to the highest level for the time of year for at least a decade. Apart from a surge expected around June 14, wind levels are forecast to stay low for the next fortnight, according to The Weather Company.
    U.K. turbines can produce about as much power as 12 nuclear reactors when conditions are right. During the “Beast from the East” storm that hit Britain in March, they generated record levels of power and at times provided the biggest share of the nation’s electricity.
    Low wind power isn’t a threat to supplies in June when demand is low. On a dull, dark day in winter when heating demand peaks, a calm day might leave the U.K. grid vulnerable.”

  551. Redmen4ever says:

    Refreshing to see so many ‘visible minorities’ in the Conservative Party of Ontario. Could Trump get us, in this county, part of the way there?

  552. Tina says:

    So, the media caught up with the scandal involving the indicted senate staffer from the Warner burr useless committee are now claiming that spying is bad.

    Let’s queue some of the rinos on the committee to follow down this same path.

    I always warned that Burrs committee was a sheet fest.

  553. Tina says:

    Quittens is no longer never trump because it is primary season.

    Losing Hatch is a blow, what a downgrade.

  554. mnw says:


    Thanks for correcting my sketchy knowledge about CA & desalinization plants. I knew they were forbidden by the leftist establishment for SOME reason– I’m still not clear exactly why. As you said, liberals just hate any sort of progress out there, basically, I guess.

    It seems the obvious solution to all the Chicken Little noise about the snow pack to me. I think Israel gets about half its water from such plants.

  555. Tina says:

    Anthony Bourdain, celebrity chef, committed suicide.

  556. Bitterlaw says:

    JC – I do not “put words” in people.s mouths. I just hold them accountable for what they say. No free lunch.

  557. Chicon says:

    Does a 270% tariff constitute free trade?

  558. Tina says:

    Why do I get the feeling that Macaroni and the Canadian Sock will be embarrassed by Trump?

    It will be little Marco 2.0.

  559. Tgca says:

    Trump is considering a pardon for Muhammad Ali’s for his Vietnam War draft evasion conviction. This just can’t be tolerated! A white male Republican President cannot just go around pardoning black people. It’s unconscionable! This is an abuse of executive power. Mueller needs to look into this.

    Pardons of minorities is the job of a Democratic President. Everyone knows this. Argh!!!

  560. Tina says:

    How convenient. The Awan Server goes missing from congress.

  561. mnw says:

    Pardoning dead people whose convictions were already overturned 46 years ago strikes me as being… frivolous, bordering on silly.

    Otoh… I am cognizant of the fact that I did not get elected 45th President of the United States.

  562. jason says:

    Too bad about Bourdain.

    I enjoyed his shows and really envied a life where you get to travel around the world and eat and drink the best of everything.

    Currently he was dating Asia Argento, beautiful actress and one of Weintein’s accusers.

    But there is a saying that when you live life in the fast lane you often get to the other end faster too. He had a past of drug use and alcoholism and I guess in the end he could not overcome the demons.

  563. Tgca says:

    France is chithole country so who cares what they think.

    We should just buy Canada. We already pretty much own them in every other way Except for their adolescence pushback on the US on many issues, they benefit from everything America and it’s why 90% of their population in this vast land size country lives along the US border. I think we could buy it for like $75M. That’s like $2 per person. Seems like a good deal to me.

  564. mnw says:



    I never heard of him. You sure know a lot about him. Are you sure you like girls?

  565. jason says:

    wes, don’t you find it hilarious the “true conservatives”, who never found a deadender they didn’t like, are scurrying around pretending Blankenship is not the type of candidate they have supported here in the past?

  566. Chicon says:

    Bourdain and Spade are good examples of money not necessarily leading to happiness.

  567. Tina says:

    I cannot take macaroni and sock boy seriously.

    Global socialists that they are.

  568. Tina says:

    Sessions has caught three leakers, the most damaging one is the one last night.

    The Senate Intelligence Committee is corrupt though. I would not be surprised if a senator or two leaked classified info.

  569. jason says:

    . Are you sure you like girls?”

    Dang, could I be gay because I liked to watch a Anthony Bourdain’s shows?

    This is worrisome, I like Andrew Zimmer’s Bizarre Foods show too.

    Tgca, what do you think?

  570. mnw says:


    There’s a lot of research that shows once you escape starvation-level poverty, there’s no correlation between money & happiness. See e.g.., Cory, Richard (poem)

  571. Tgca says:


    Hmmm…I thought only girly men were into food and lifestyle shows. Whatever rocks your boat I guess.

    But if you’re into that thing, you should consider following Tal Ronnen. He is a famous chef so if you like to drool over food, he just might be your man.

  572. Tina says:

    Nailing Wolfe, the senate intelligence leaker, is a big coup.

    He promoted many muh Russian hoaxes.

  573. Tgca says:

    I don’t think Jason is gay. That just seems silly. But hey, I haven’t seen him walk either. That’s often a dead give away.

    But he could be a cross dresser. Lots of men like to try on their wives clothes. A lazy summer afternoon on the couch in a tank top and micro mini skirt sipping an iced green peach passion tea and nibbling on shortbread cookies while watching Lifestyle shows.

  574. jason says:

    Gracious of Trump, considering Bourdain was a flaming liberal and made a tasteless (pun intended) joke in 2017 about poisoning Trump and atated that he would not dine with him.

    “That was very shocking when I woke up this morning: ‘Anthony Bourdain is dead’,” President Donald Trump said.

    “I enjoyed his show; he was quite a character, I will say,’ “I want to extend my condolences, and also to the family of Kate Spade.”

  575. Chicon says:

    I would’ve pegged Jason as a Hallmark Channel guy.

  576. mnw says:

    I think you got it,Tgca. I bet he’s into pegging.

  577. jason says:

    I don’t think Jason is gay.”

    Thanks for the vote of confidence.

    “But he could be a cross dresser”


  578. jason says:

    “I would’ve pegged Jason”

    Is that gay language, Tgca?

  579. Chicon says:

    Does dressing like a llama count as cross dressing?

  580. Tgca says:

    Ok. I learned something new today from MNW. Per Google…

    “A man who recieved a strap on dildo in the a$$ from a woman.”

    I have never heard of this term before. Thanks for the education MNW…now had did you know about this?

  581. Tgca says:


    No Jsson. Apparently, it’s straight language. 🙂

  582. Waingro says:

    Fox news drops a D+9 generic ballot, putting RCP average to D+ 7.6. Hard to ignore the surge to Dems right now.

  583. Bitterlaw says:

    A discussion about pegging? Wow. That came out of nowhere.

    While the personal lives of its members are confidential, I am not aware of any A-holes engaging in such activities.

  584. jason says:

    No Jsson. Apparently, it’s straight language”

    Well, only until a “straight” guy want to “peg” another straight guy….

  585. Tgca says:

    So Bitter knows what pegging is too. Hmmm….

    How is it that this is evidently a well known term with a different meaning than I expected. I feel that the NJ public school system deprived me of certain opportunities to expand my knowledge. This is another reason for education reform in my view.

    When I was in high school, I had an excellent English teacher, who used to be a nun btw, who gave us 20 words every week to build our vocabulary in preparation of the SAT. I do not recall PEGGING being in that list.

  586. Tgca says:

    Next time I hear a woman say I got that guy pegged. I will know what she means.

  587. jason says:

    “Bourdain was once quoted that a Chicken McNugget was the most disgusting thing he ever ate, although he declared that the unwashed warthog rectum he ate in Namibia and the fermented shark he ate in Iceland were among “the worst meals of his life.”

    I would agree on the McNuggets. I haven’t tried the warthog rectum yet. I did have fermented codfish in Norway, it’s definitely an acquired taste.

  588. Tgca says:

    No Jason, pegging is evidently between a man and a woman. It’s not pegging if it involves 2 guys. We have different wording for that but I don’t think that wording will get through the HHR automated posting filters.

    But Apparently MNW and Bitter can explain more on this topic to you. I just learned it today by Googling.

  589. jason says:

    I am more familiar with the term “nailing” than “pegging”, but then English is not my first language.

  590. Diamond Jim says:


  591. Tgca says:

    Before my full veggie diet. I did try alligator tail once. Absolutely disgusting! They say it tastes like chicken. I guess if the chicken is extremely dry and chewy like leather.

  592. Tgca says:


    Nailing has a much different meaning and can be used by both gays and straights equally. It does not involve the use of an artificial apparatus as pegging does.

    Clearly, I am a quick study on these things and soon to be an expert on all things pegging. I have 2 very close female friends and look forward to discussing pegging with them to expand my knowledge.

  593. DW says:

    I had never even heard of Bourdain or Spade until the news broke they offed themselves.

  594. Tgca says:

    597 Jason

    I am familiar with some vocabulary that may be used to describe eating warthog rectum so if and when you decide to try that delicacy, I can assist in the appropriate language you can use to express that act.

    I make full disclosure here that my knowledge of vocabulary is limited to my lifelong pursuit of education and does not in any way suggest I engage in those things I have knowledge about. I could never imagine eating any part of an animal.

  595. Tgca says:

    By the way, during my sinful flesh eating days, I often enjoyed a quick snack of McD nuggets and fries. Not sure why Bourdain would find them distasteful.

    However, I used to make my own nuggets back in the day using my fryer. Just lightly season cut up chicken pieces in the deep fryer for 2 minutes and a delightful healthy crispy low fat, no carb, high protein snack. My dog enjoyed them too.

    I also made my own fries. Me and the pooch particularly enjoyed homemade sweet potato fries.

  596. Tgca says:


    I did not use breadcrumbs either. I generally find that takes away from the taste of the food and retains too much of an oil taste while significantly adding to unnecessary calories, especially carbs and fats.

  597. jason says:

    Speaking of food, where is EML?

    We didn’t always agree on politics, but we agreed that fast food sucks and that Olive Garden had the most disgusting food of any restaurant chain in America.

  598. DW says:

    I recently had a gift card to use up on Olive Garden, so I did.
    The food was awful. Years ago you could get a plate of food that was reasonably tasty for $13. The prices have jumped to about $16 or $17 for a smaller plate of food that tastes terrible. Will never spend money on them again.

  599. Chicon says:

    I rarely have McNuggets. More the absence of taste than bad taste. I’d think they wouldn’t have sold millions of them…

  600. Chicon says:

    If the tasted like garbage.

    Hit send too early.

  601. Redmen4ever says:

    Some of the things I learned last night:

    In British English, they say aluminium.

    Immigrants are called “visible minorities” in Canada.

    Politicians promise to lower the price of beer.

    They have a Senate in Canada, and it voted to legalize marijuana.

    At political victory parties, they have two t.v. monitors: one for ice hockey and the other for poll results.

    Alberta is taking the Albertosaurus off its drivers license.

  602. dblaikie says:

    I suppose the poll disciples will think that the democratic surge in the generic numbers is accurate. Let’s see in California, even though the media tries to spin it, the democrats had bad night. Cox came in a solid second and the so called 7 vulnerable seats that they think they can flip are not so flippable. Plus turnout seemed seemed low for the dems and strong for the GOP. Add to that the trip to N. Korea and the releasing of the IG report — all bad for the dems — and low and behold, all of a sudden, out of the blue, a huge surprise, with complete shock, some polls come out showing a democratic surge. Go ahead and believe it. After all there are some who believe every poll until the next one comes out 15 minutes later.

    Not me, I off the poll train. I think it is bogus to average out polls with completely different models (e.g. adults, registered, and likely). Now please understand I am grateful to folks like DW who keep us informed of the mischief of the polling firms. But I know that folks who are veteran poll watchers (like DW for example) take their results with a dose of salt even as they faithfully post them.

  603. jason says:

    I’d think they wouldn’t have sold millions of them…”

    Are you serious?

    Garbage sells or they wouldn’t have sold billions of them.

  604. mnw says:

    So sad to hear that Dr. K is dying of cancer. I don’t usually pay much attention to the passing of famous people whom I never met. I read his book “Things That Matter,” & I think he is a brilliant man & a superb writer too.

    He is 68. To me & Walt, that’s too young to die, right, Cow?

  605. Tgca says:


    I agree! Just because something sells or is popular does not mean it is quality or good for you. As I used to say to a friend of mine back in the 90s who was a Madonna fanatic, Madonna is like the McDs of music. When you’re drinking, and want a quick fix it hits the spot but certainly not quality. Then he would not talk to me for 2 months.

  606. jason says:

    I would describe Olive Garden food as carbs smothered in white carb slop, with a side of more carbs called breadsticks.

    Of course, I haven’t actually ever eaten there so I thank DW for the report, someone had to make the sacrifice.

  607. Chicon says:

    So, millions eat stuff that they think tastes bad? Interesting.

  608. Tgca says:

    I did not know Krauthammer was at the end of his life. I knew he was ill but did not realize how far along he was. He was one of my favorite to watch, as I enjoyed his dry wit mixed with his analysis. I did not always agree with him, maybe 80% I did but I always thought he was eloquent in his communication. Rarely did I see him get annoyed or get defensive when challenged.

    He also came full circle in his political career, once a DemonCrat. But what I admired most of him was his ability to take a personal tragedy at such a young age and focus himself into a respected career. How many of us would be able to focus upon and finish medical school while being paralyzed? I remember reading his story about how they provided him his class lessons and books and he studied while recuperating in the hospital after his tragic paralyzing pool accident.

    He lived a good admiral life so I pray his passing will be peaceful and pain-free.

  609. jason says:

    Hard to figure why successful, rich, healthy people kill themselves.

    This Spade woman had sold her business for 2 billion and started a new one. She had a 13 yr old daughter. Lived in a fabulous apt on Park Avenue.

    Bourdain had a dream job, not that he needed a job. Also had a young daughter. Rich, famous, accomplished, could do anything he wanted with his life.

    It seems like Robin Williams had Parkinson’s, that is a terrible disease, so maybe he didn’t want to face that. But Bourdain and Spade seemed to have plenty to live for.

  610. Tgca says:

    I have only been to Olive Garden a few times. I always felt quite lethargic after eating there and other big food chains like Apple Bees. Probably because the excessive loads of carbs, salt, and sugars in their foods. They are quite calorie intensive and energy draining.

  611. Tgca says:


    I actually think it’s quite common for folks who have everything to feel depressed and disconnected st times, often the reason they turn to the bottle, drugs, isolation, or other risky behaviors.

    I think a lot of that wealth and success makes for a harder life in terms of making real friends, connecting with others, and the ability to experience everyday events that are instructive to learning and growing. Many folks who achieve everything, especially at a young age, often have a difficult time adjusting to errors or failure that we all occasionally experience because those around them are often just booty kissers. When do you think is the last time someone sat Oprah down and gave her a fair evaluation of her performance and expressed what she did well and what she needs to improve upon? People of certain statuses don’t generally benefit from those adjusting and growing opportunities because they don’t get regular balanced feedback and guidance.

    I’ve worked with many folks over the years who’ve been very privileged but seemed disconnected and alone, not to often mention just crazy at times and unable to handle certain challenges that many of us would otherwise handle fine.

  612. Chicon says:

    Jason, Spade sold her business a long time ago. Whoever bought it sold it recently for $2B. She and her husband were “only” worth $100M. Agree on the rest of 619.

  613. jason says:

    How is this for scumbag of the year?

    “Oliver Willis

    death doesnt make a very bad guy a good guy.”

  614. mnw says:


    And he was rich- yes, richer than a king-
    And admirably schooled in every grace.
    In fine, we thought that he was everything
    To make us wish that we were in his place.

    So we worked, and waited for the light,
    And went without the meat and cursed the bread,
    And Richard Cory one calm summer night,
    Went home an put a bullet through his head.

  615. Tina says:

    Trump asks the nfl kneeler a to provide their recommendations regarding pardoning. Prolly meant it jokingly,

    At the same time, he is leaning toward ending the federal ban on marijuana.

  616. Tgca says:

    In addition, not everyone has a good support group. Where would I be if not for the support of HHR, I often ask myself.

    I know if I were desperate and down on my luck, I could count on MD or Author to get me through the hard times. I can just hear them now, “Kill yourself TG! The suffering is just not worth it.”

  617. Tgca says:

    622 Chicon

    Only worth $100M? Well, now that makes sense to me. I would be depressed too. 🙂

  618. jason says:

    Well, I did suggest that Bunu join the Palestinian “flotilla” trying to invade Israeli waters, volunteer as a “human shield” for Iran’s nuclear sites, or join the Taliban.

    But the intent was to instill more self esteem in him, if he got killed it would be a tragic bon–, huh, tragedy.

  619. Tgca says:

    So the G7 wish to force Trump to change his mind on the Iran deal. Maybe Trump should send them this article where Iran holds it annual protest day of Israel and burnt an effigy of Israel and the US. Considering the increased anti-semitism in Europe, especially France and Germany, maybe the G7 can explain to Trump why we should trust Iran and rely on their good faith efforts.

  620. Tgca says:

    Ok. This article is out of Philly so I look to Bitter’s expertise on this matter. Not sure how the logistics of movement work but I assume there must be some advanced physical coordination involved.

    10% Admit to Checking Phone During Sex

    The article also states that 69% check their phone while using the toilet. That seems reasonable to me.

    75% claim they keep their phone next to their bed. That seems more like a necessity to me. I charge my iPad and phones nightly and they are on my nightstand within my grasp.

  621. mnw says:


    I noticed that, but I like to think she’s telling all her friends how wonderful I am.

    Btw, more charges against Manafort.

  622. jason says:

    10% Admit to Checking Phone During Sex”

    I admire people who can multi-task…

  623. Chicon says:

    Did MD once attempt to start his own blog?

    Plantfree, or something like that?

  624. Robbie says:

    Jason fraud to himself – “I totally support a president who has better relationships with Putin and Kim Jong Un than the leaders of Mexico, Canada, Great Britain, and France. Of course, if Obama had sidled up to Putin or Un, I would have screamed bloody murder that a Kenyan anti-colonialist wanted to destroy America’s place in the world because I’m a total fraud who hated Trump, didn’t vote for Trump, left the party because of Trump, but still demands that everyone slavishly support Trump.”

  625. Robbie says:

    By the way, I have no doubt Jason fraud, who has always portrayed himself as a free trader, will find a way to support Trump’s mercantilist, 19th century protectionism because that’s what frauds do.

  626. Robbie says:

    Tinfoil might know the answer to this since she marinates in conspiracies, but what is the HHR/Trumpist, loony bin theory on Trey Gowdy?

    Did the “deep state” get to him? Did they use his microwave against him to plant vicious lies in his head? Or did they use the chemtrails that Kelli Wad in Arizona has warned us about?

  627. Tina says:

    FOX Business
    .@NancyPelosi: “Hip hip hooray, unemployment is down. What does that mean to me and my life? I need a bigger paycheck.”
    11:36 AM – Jun 8, 2018

    The gift that keeps on giving.

  628. Tina says:

    It’s all crumbs Nancy,

    And MS 13 are good people.

  629. Robbie says:

    I’ve been on a hiatus for the last month, but I’m curious about the wall? How many miles have been built? Trump’s a master negotiator so I’m sure he’s secured funding for it. After all, he was paid $50,000 and episode for the first season of the Apprentice. He asked for $1 million an episode for season 2. He agreed to $60,000 an episode. Anyone with negotiating skills like that must have found a way to make the wall appear.

    Also, how many of you have applied for the job of taking immigrant children away from their parents at the border? Taking a screaming 3 year old away from a 25 year old mother fleeing poverty or drug lords must be an awesome feeling. There’s no better way to own the libs than by separating young, impoverished families. I think Jesus told a parable about this in the Gospel of Luke, right?

  630. Tina says:

    Larry Schweikart Retweeted
    Jim Hoft
    Jim Hoft
    Breaking: Feinstein’s Former Intel Staffer Daniel Jones is Also Connected to NY Times Reporter in Leak Investigation (link:… via @gatewaypundit

    Breaking: Feinstein’s Former Intel Staffer Daniel Jones is Also Connected to NY Times Reporter in…

  631. Robbie says:

    Trump should own the libs by holding a summit of the tough guys at Mar-a-Lago. He could invite Putin, Un, and Erdogan for Thanksgiving dinner. After having Comey executed by mortar fire or flamethrower as Un did several of his relatives and generals (Trump called Un an honorable man), they can attend a death match where members of press arrested by each of Trump’s good friends can fight to the death. And rather than Trump giving a thumbs up or a thumbs down to the survibor, Trump can simply pardon the press member at the behest of Kim Kardashian, Nikki Minaj, Meatloaf, or some other celebrity.

  632. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The Romney/Trump love fest continues:

    “Former Massachusetts governor and Utah Senate candidate Mitt Romney predicts President Trump will coast to re-election in 2020. The president’s policies, and the Democrats’ likelihood of imploding, he explained at a three-day, closed-door summit in Utah’s mountains, are what may seal the deal. The Associated Press had access to the event.

    “I think that not just because of the strong economy and the fact that people are going to see increasingly rising wages,” Romney said, “but I think it’s also true because I think our Democrat friends are likely to nominate someone who is really out of the mainstream of American thought and will make it easier for a president who’s presiding over a growing economy.”

    Trump was asked about the remarks before boarding his plane to the G7 Summit in Quebec, Canada.

    “Romney is a straight shooter,” Trump said, adding that he appreciated the former governor’s comments.

  633. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The poster claiming to be Robbie is a fake. He hasn’t mentioned Roy Moore yet.

  634. CG says:

    Cool, Robbie is back! I have had to shoulder this NeverTrump burden alone recently and I am too nice of a person for it.

  635. CG says:

    Let’s point out the obvious, that nowhere in Romney’s remarks did he say he supported Trump’s reelection. He of course made some very judgmental but very accurate comments about Trump personally a week or two ago.

    He may or may not be up to something in his remarks. Possibly, he is just acting as a political analyst (and especially making the point about how the Democrats are imperiled by being so far to the left)but in any event he did get Trump to go on the record to call him a “straight shooter.”

  636. CG says:

    Sad news indeed today about Charles Krauthammer. He certainly accomplished much in his life after a point where many people would have given up.

  637. CG says:

    Congrats to Dave Wissing on seeing the Washington Capitals win the Stanley Cup. I know he has been waiting a long time. Enjoy it and the (legal) Russian collusion that made it possible.

    If you want to triumphantly shut down HHR for good now, people will understand.

  638. CG says:

    Cubs Win!

  639. Tina says:

    Quitters is so full of it.

    A downgrade vs Hatch.

    He will win though.

  640. Chicon says:

    Totally fake. Even he’s not that deranged. Well…..

  641. Phil says:

    Who told citizens of another country to sneak across the border and bring their kids? Excuse us for having a border.

  642. Phil says:

    Oops I fell for it.

  643. Bitterlaw says:

    Tgca- Maybe the people checking the phones were taking spicy photos or videos and got distracted. Some might be parents away from small children and the babysitter is updating them.

  644. Bitterlaw says:

    I give Robbie credit. Don’t just start posting. Kick in the doors and fight!

  645. Bitterlaw says:

    I read Krauthammer’s letter. It is sad and uplifting at the same time. I hope his remaining time is fulfilling and peaceful.

  646. Tina says:

    Looks like the two frat boys, macaroni and sock, backed down,

    Trumps tweet to sock boy was just devastating,

  647. Tina says:

    Kick in the door and fight…

    More like rehash drat talking points and retreat

  648. Phil says:

    Wait. The ripping three year olds away from their parents post was a serious post from the real Robbie? I thought someone was just doing a Robbie parody.

  649. Bitterlaw says:

    Be fair, Tina. Many of your posts are linking to other blogs or twitter accounts. You and Robbie have good battles.

  650. Tina says:

    Be fair, bl. I do not cite drat talking points, such as the ripping of 3 year olds. Btw, that happens under the obumbler because the photos were taken in 2014.

    The other day, the other Jebot, was on e Melanie birtherism crusade. You know she is missing, right?

  651. Bitterlaw says:

    You have your own talking point sources. Just not Democrat talking points.

    I don’t often agree with Robbie and Corey but at least they show up. Echo chambers are Zzzzzzzzzz. Try reading BeJohnGalt or Kos for more than 5 minutes.

  652. NYCmike says:

    Robbie’s back, and he’s loonier than before!

    Is it wrong that Robbie (and “CG”) made me think of this song??

  653. NYCmike says:

    The Devil!

  654. NYCmike says:

    “The poster claiming to be Robbie is a fake. He hasn’t mentioned Roy Moore yet.”


  655. Tina says:

    I have to retreat tonite. It is game 4 of the finals,

    Limoncello is flowing


  656. Bitterlae says:

    Enjoy the game, Tina,

  657. NYCmike says:


    Have you been “pegged”?

  658. Bitterlaw says:

    Just a typo. Having to retype everything for each post sucks.

  659. Tgca says:

    Bitter Lay? Sounds like a good handle yo me.

  660. Chicon says:

    671 – if you don’t like it start your own site. 🙂

  661. NYCmike says:


  662. Mr.Vito says:

    “PBS’s Judy Woodruff asked former president Bill Clinton Thursday whether he thought it was a “good thing” that norms have changed when it comes to sexual harassment. Woodruff’s example was former Minnesota senator Al Franken being forced to resign his post after accusations that, Woodruff said, were less serious than what happened in the Lewinsky scandal.”

    What is wrong with these ‘journalists’? Lewinsky was consensual… Franken groped a sleeping woman with photographic evidence that he humiliated her with… and that excludes the other ‘accusations’.

    How is this less serious?

    The seriousness of what Bill did is with Flowers, Jones, Broaddrick, et al, and how he TREATED Monica Lewinsky and others.

  663. Chicon says:

    Get out of bed you lazy bastages.

  664. jason says:


    Bastard hostages?

  665. jason says:

    y the way, I have no doubt Jason fraud, who has always portrayed himself as a free trader, will find a way to support Trump’s mercantilist, 19th century protectionism”


    Find ONE post here where I support Trump’s trade policies and I will mail a check for $1000 to your favorite charity.

    But if you don’t find it, you mail $1000 check to the York ASPCA.


  666. jason says:

    Now let’s see who is the fraud here.

  667. jason says:

    left the party because of Trump,”

    Another lie.

    I never said I left the party because of Trump.

    I always said Trump was a symptom of what I disagree with the majority of R voters, not the cause.

  668. jason says:

    Wobbie’s “hiatus” in Bogo Pogo did not, alas, make him any smarter.

    Still re-living the 2016 primaries while the country and world moves on.


  669. Chicon says:

    677 – bastages…Johnny Dangerously reference.

  670. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Why has war hero and terrible Senator, John McCain(R-Media-AZ), yet to resign? The folks in Arizona need a full time voting Senator.
    The June 1st deadline for not having two AZ Senate elections this November has come and gone.
    Do the right thing, Mr. McCain! Retire,Today!

  671. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    A new poll shows that 46% of San Franciscans would like to leave The City? I wonder why? Unaffordability, taxes on everything, human waste in the streets, massive homelessness, drugs and druggies everywhere etc., seem like a small price to pay to live in this scenic Liberal Wonderland!

  672. Tina says:

    Well, another basketball championship for the bay.

    There are reports that Lebron hurt his hand punching a chalkboard. After game 1 his points went down,

    Cleveland looked tired going into game 4.

    No White House invitation for the Warriors given what happened last year.

    I like their coach, just ish he eases off on the politics.

  673. lisab says:

    eu to ban memes because funny content is mocking eu governments

  674. Robbie says:

    Jason fraud – “I totally oppose Russia invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea unless Trump supports it.”

    Rick Wilson

    Super excited to learn that the new conservative position is to dismiss Russia’s invasion of Crimea and Ukraine.

  675. Chicon says:

    TDS. Moderate, bordering on severe.

  676. NYCmike says:

    Yesterday, Robbie was worried Trump fragile ego and big mouth would get us into WWIII.

    Today, Robbie is pissed that Trump will not go to war with Russia to defend Ukraine, which has its own issues with political corruption and oligarch-type ruling class.

  677. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    688. “Super excited to learn that the new conservative position is to dismiss Russia’s invasion of Crimea and Ukraine.”

    The vast majority of the Crimean population is Russian and supported the annexation. The only reason that the Crimea was part of the Ukraine was Khrushchev put it under Ukrainian jurisdiction in the 1960s. The annexation took place during the Obama/Clinton administration, what did they do to stop it?

    The situation in the Ukraine is complex, and the bad outcome was a result of the disastrous actions of the Obama/Clinton administration. They were complete idiots. As in Syria and Iraq, they let the situation spin out of control. and were useless in providing help.

    Trump by contrast has provided the Ukraine the weapons they need (and were denied by Obama), and is providing strong support. There is a reason Eastern European countries like Trump, and disliked his predecessor.

    Learn the facts prior to posting. Obama/Clinton lost the Crimea, and emboldened Putin in the Ukraine. Several months ago, Trump blew up several hundred Russian mercenaries in Syria — Obama/Clinton would not have dared.

  678. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Here is an anti-Trump American journalist based in Kiev in Politico praising Trump’s Ukraine policy:

    “As an American journalist based in Kiev, Ukraine, I also feared that you would throw struggling Ukraine under the bus in your rush to seal your bromance with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, whom you repeatedly praised on the campaign trail.
    Miraculously, however, Ukraine has survived — and even thrived — during the first year of your presidency. Amazing, isn’t it? Your government has remained committed to supporting Kiev in its war against Moscow and has reiterated the U.S.’s opposition to Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. While you were busy bashing the “Fake News” media, both houses of Congress extended sanctions against Russia this past summer. They even tacked on additional penalties to punish Russia for its interference in the 2016 presidential election, despite your vociferous denials of their involvement. It wasn’t some “400-pound man” doing the hacking, Mr. President; it was your bro Vlad’s Kremlin-paid trolls.
    You’ve shown yourself to be a better friend to Ukraine than even your Putin-hating predecessor Obama. You delighted Kiev this year by appointing a special representative for Ukraine, responsible for supporting the country’s transition to the West, and for ensuring the success of the Minsk peace accords. Your choice of Kurt Volker, a veteran diplomat and former U.S. ambassador to NATO, impressed even your harshest critics. He has been firm in labeling the conflict in the east as a “Russian-led war against Ukraine” and has repeatedly called for your government to provide Kiev with lethal defensive weapons and for Russia to withdraw its troops from the Donbas.”

  679. Chicon says:

    Well said, SDC.

  680. mnw says:


    Tarasenko is an ethnic Russian from Ukraine.


    Your posts are useful. I do hope, however, that we are making it clear to Ukraine that it must look to its own interests & not delude itself into thinking that the U.S. has much influence there.

  681. Bitterlaw says:

    Congratulations to Justified.

  682. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “I do hope, however, that we are making it clear to Ukraine that it must look to its own interests & not delude itself into thinking that the U.S. has much influence there.”

    I disagree, and believe Trump now does too. We do have a strategic interest in helping the Ukraine, and Trump is providing them the weapons to do so. The Ukrainians are tough, they were winning the war against the Donbass separatists, which partially caused the Russian intervention. With the better weapons Trump supplied, believe the Ukrainians will hold there own well.

    Saying this, agree with Trump. Its time for Trump and Putin meet and try and work out a solution. The logical one would be to recognize the annexation of the Crimea, and assure autonomy of the Russian populated Donbass region. and let the rest of the Ukraine interact and ally with the West.

    If Trump did this, of course, Clinton, Obama, and the Democrats (as well as the Bush neocon nuts) would go ballistic, and claim Trump was colluding with Putin. They claimed to support the Ukrainians, but failed to give them the necessary weapons to defend themselves. Suppose they felt like one of Obama’s glorious speeches would part the waters and restore peace.

    Its more complex than this, but like North Korea, am a lot more comfortable with Trump’s diplomacy than that of Clinton/Obama.

  683. Diamond Jim says:


  684. Diamond Jim says:


  685. Diamond Jim says:


  686. Diamond Jim says:


  687. Robbie says:

    Jason fraud – “I love it when our president says nice things about murderous dictators and acts like a jerk to our allies. I would have hated it if Obama had done this and called for him to be removed from office, but Trump has a R after his name and that’s all that matters.”

    Vivian Salama

    Note the language Pres.Trump has used in recent days to describe Kim Jong Un – describing the recent letter he received from the North Korean leader as “very warm, very nice” – whereas he just described the Prime Minister of Canada as meek, weak & dishonest. Times are a changin’

  688. mnw says:


    I don’t disagree with anything specifically that you posted, but we have no treaty commitments. They mustn’t think NATO &/or the 101st Airborne are going to help them if Russia invades.

    Out of curiosity, do you have a special interest in Ukraine?

  689. jason says:

    So Wobbie do we have a deal.

    You find ONE post where I defend Trump’s trade policy and your favorite charity gets $1000.

    If not, the York Co. SPCA dogs get $1000.

    Should be easy, since supposedly I support Trump on “everything”.

    Let’s see who the real fraud is.

  690. jason says:

    I will make it even easier for Wobbie to earn $1000.

    Special bonus:

    Find ONE post where I defend Trump calling Kim “honorable”.

    Should be easy, I always support Trump.

  691. jason says:

    Well, Justify ran a great race and I lost my ass on the Belmont too.

    But the horse that really screwed me over was Grontkowski, I would at have had the superfecta and trifecta if he hadn’t come in second.

  692. jason says:

    I disagree, and believe Trump now does too. We do have a strategic interest in helping the Ukraine, ”

    I agree.

    Isolationism will just embolden the Russians further.

    And the annexation of Crimea is completely illegal, the “there are ethnic Russians” there is complete horse crap. if that was the standard France could invade Quebec and Mexico could invade New Mexico.

  693. Tgca says:

    685 Sheeple

    I lived in San Francisco for 14 years. Aesthetically, beautiful small city with a lot do. But it became so far left, and they don’t care about anything except for themselves and their money. I watched this small city turn from a liberal middle class enclave of different communities into a greedy highly arrogant small metropolis that drove diverse neighborhoods away. Yes, it became a lot cleaner and nicer through the era. But it was sad because it also destroyed the multicultural character of the city, as each of the diverse neighborhoods became gentrified into a high tech mentality. Yes, it still has ethnic diversity but many of the ethnic diverse folks are 2nd or 3rd generation clones of one another and similar to their Caucasian peers in what is most important to them: status and money.

    I gave up a high paying job to leave there because I became so disappointed in the arrogance, greed, and hypocrisy. I watched many friends and people I knew change into greedy arrogant folks who looked down on anything not San Francisco. Many came to believe because due to the high tech, that SF was the center of the country and more important than it really is.

    I have find memories of my yoot when I 1st went there and the many people I met but it all changed. I have not been back in about 6 years and don’t keep in contact with anyone there except 2 folks who live far outside SF.

    I could honestly say that if SF went into a financial depression or had a severe earthquake, I doubt I would care much. That’s not good to think that way but to me it really is the epitome of greed, hypocrisy, and arrogance more than any big city in the US. I hope it changes some day back to a diverse community where money and status are not the main goals. I don’t care if the city is liberal, it was liberal for decades, but the extreme greed and arrogance is what I find a real turnoff and it makes the people seem so shallow. Out of all the places I have been and lived in the US, I found Bay Area folks the most shallow and fake. Fake People! 🙂

  694. Tina says:

    The socialist wants the losses at the g7 to insist that the Mulehead investigation continue.

    So, the socialist is for foreign intervention in our politics?

  695. Tgca says:


    McCain is too selfish to give up the spotlight. Maybe he’s waiting for them to impeach Trump so he can be the deciding vote of removal in the Senate and get a big standing ovation and hugs from the DemonCrats.

  696. mnw says:

    I trust no-one is setting up (another) straw man & accusing me of “isolationism” now?

    I agree with arming Ukraine, but after that, they have to solve this themselves.

  697. Tgca says:

    I have been meaning to ask this for some time, what act of fraud did Jason commit to label him Jason Fraud?

    wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

    synonyms: fraudulence, cheating, swindling, embezzlement, deceit, deception, double-dealing, chicanery

    a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

    synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, charlatan, quack

  698. Tgca says:

    Justify wins Triple Crown

    I know little to nothing of horses. However, I find them, along with dogs, elephants, deer, and dolphins to be such beautiful creatures deserving of love and admiration. I guess you could say that about many animals but I just find these hold special to me.

  699. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    702. “Out of curiosity, do you have a special interest in Ukraine?”

    No special interest in the Ukraine, but have a lot of Ukrainian friends. Like with the rest of Eastern Europe, want to see them break totally away from the Soviet/Russian yoke.

    What happened in the Ukraine in 2014 is a lot like what happened in Hungary in 1956. The West encouraged the Ukrainians in 2014 to stage a revolution, then stepped back and did very little as the situation went into chaos.

    Obama, Clinton, Merkel and Putin should have been working together to defuse the situation. Obama, as usual, issued statements, but did not exercise leadership.

  700. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Here a brilliant article by Henry Kissinger in 2014 about the Ukrainian crisis. Note the statement: “For the West, the demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.”

    As Napoleon once said, “it is worse than a defeat, it was a blunder.” As was most of the Obama/Clinton foreign policy.

  701. Tgca says:

    So Bitter McCain posts:

    To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values. Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn’t.

    You’re irrelevant and bitter to the end, and soon to be forgotten as a politician since you’ve never done anything politically of great substance. Did you post similar when Obama was sacrificing decades of American leadership and policy around the world? How many times did you turn on your own party and constituents?

    One may disagree with Trump’s tactics and positions but I bet more Americans agree today Trump is trying to do something more for the US than most DC politicians have ever done with their status quo and self-preservation, and that includes McCain.

  702. Tgca says:

    So basically the G7 agree with Trump about reducing barriers, WTO reform, and Iran and agree to work together going forward. Then after Trump leaves, Trudeau grows a pair to criticize Trump in his absence. Evidently he did not have the cajones to confront Trump the way he did after Trump left. The new world order are p*ssies and my gut feeling is this was Trudeau just trying to look strong at home due to his troubles there. Why do I feel that Canada will change its stance in a month or two?

    I’ve not been a fan of Trudeau and think he’s not shown any great leadership. He seems like a Romney type to me, strictly trying to followthe winds.

  703. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    This is the same Trudeau who was laughed at when he went to India and engaged in something of a custom party.

  704. Tgca says:

    Who wants to discuss ABORTION?

  705. Tgca says:

    Bummer! No one wants to discuss ABORTION.

    I wonder if anyone on Grindr or Tinder wants to discuss ABORTION. Hmm…

  706. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    I lived in the LA area for over 15 years. If and when the Big One hits, Sayonara to all and to all a good night!

  707. Tina says:

    I cannot take Justin Truedope seriously.

    Truedope admitted that Canadian tariffs are right, American tariffs are wrong.

    There is also the embarrassing picture of mullah Merkel and the president with folded arms laughing at her. Notice Abe, the Japanese pm, doing the same to mullah Merkel.

  708. DW says:

    FL Chamber poll has Scott leading Nelson 48/45

  709. Bitterlaw says:

    Damn. I missed a chance to discuss ABORTION!

  710. Bitterlaw says:

    Breaking News – Trump supporters will declare the summit with NK as the greatest diplomatic success since Ben Franklin persuaded France to support America in the Revolution. Trump haters will declare it a complete failure that may end human life on Earth.

  711. mnw says:


    Thx. Actually surprised Scott doesn’t lead by more than 3.

    We should start to get more head-to-head polls now.

    FL Sen should be pretty easy to poll because both candidates have such high name recognition, I would guess.

  712. mnw says:

    Ben Franklin didn’t “persuade” zh*t. Benedict Arnold did.*

    *(Battle of Saratoga. Most consequential battle in American history.)

  713. Tina says:

    According to the Rinos, I thought it was a big no-no to attack the president while overseas?

  714. Tina says:

    John Bolton
    John Bolton
    Just another #G7 where other countries expect America will always be their bank. The President made it clear today. No more. (photo by @RegSprecher)

  715. Tina says:

    I like Bolton more and more.

  716. NYCmike says:

    #725 – stupid.

  717. Tgca says:

    720 Sheeples

    Ok. I did not mean I want to see San Francisco hit with a big earthquake, I just meant I would not be devastated as someone who lived there a long time. That being said, I don’t wish harm purposely to people, though if Nancy Pelosi were to fall to the ground after a brick bopped her in the head from a toppling building, I might snicker before offering her assistance.

  718. Tgca says:

    723 Bitter

    To my great dismay, no discussion on ABORTION resulted. HHR folks apparently were just not interested in the topic st 4AM. …and the guys over at Grindr only wanted xxx pics and I could not understand why I needed to share xxx pics to discuss ABORTION.

    However, I found that if I held a doggie biscuit in my hand and preached the evils of ABORTION to my dogs, they were quite engaged and attentive. Somehow I sensed they understood but clearly it was a one-sided conversation.

  719. mnw says:


    I posted your FL Sen Chamber poll over at RRH. Amazingly, it appears that The Wise Men hadn’t noticed it yet.

    “Israel has hypnotized the world. May Allah awaken the people to the evil of Israel.”

    Ilhan Omar, MN state rep &
    MN-05 (probable DEM nominee)

  720. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Understood. I have the identical sentiment. No carnage. I recently visited LA for the first time in years and could not wait to go home. The quality of life has deteriorated.

  721. dblaikie says:

    Finally Trump has proposed something on Free trade that I don’t have to get queasy over: just eliminate all tariffs! One hundred percent open competition. Of course the G7 and China won’t accept. I guess a true level playing field won’t work?

  722. Tina says:

    I read that too about eliminating all tariffs but they said no.

    Truedope said his tariffs are best.

    But muh free trade.

  723. mnw says:

    Sheep 737

    Thx. I never heard of “Cherry Communications,” the outfit that ran the poll. But it’s consistent with the other recent poll by Florida Altlanic Univ.

    RCP avg has Nelson +1.5, but except for the 2 new polls, the others are from March or even earlier.

  724. jason says:

    I have been meaning to ask this for some time, what act of fraud did Jason commit to label him Jason Fraud?”

    It’s because I accepted the results of the election and decided the country is bigger than the fact my candidate for President lost in the primaries.

    So I decided to support Trump where I could. Tax cuts, judicial appointments, deregulation, energy independence, rebuilding the military, initiative with North Korea, pushback against climate change alarmists, “war” fake news and the dishonest MSM, etc.

    Where I cannot agree with him, such as his disastrous and shortsighted AFL-CIO drivenn agenda trade policy, insistence on a border to border physical wall that will never be build instead of higher tech solutions that could be implemented, insults to members of Congress he needs support from in the long run, promises of trillion dollar infrastructure boondoggle, etc., I have been clear about my opposition.

    That makes me a fraud.

    But you can boil it down to “accepted the results of the election”.

  725. Tgca says:

    740 Jason

    Border High tech solutions instead of a border wall?

    You mean like arming drones to shoot folks who attempt to cross the border? I agree, that seems like a better deterrent than a wall.

  726. Robbie says:

    Jason fraud – “I agree anyone who disagrees with Trump should spend eternity with Satan. Do not go against Dear Leader Don. That’s why, after hating Trump every day of the election, not voting for him, and leaving the party because of him, I became his biggest sycophant defender. Of course, I always defend my fraudulence by claiming I’m just accepting the election results even though I always said I would not support candidates who oppose free trade or who support restrictionist immigration policies like family separation or deporting DACA. But who cares about past statements? I traded in my integrity when I decided to unblinkingly support Trump.”

    Vivian Salama

    Trump adviser Peter Navarro tells Fox News this morning: “There’s a special place in hell for any foreign leader that engages in bad faith diplomacy with Donald J Trump and then tries to stab him in the back on the way out the door.”

  727. jason says:

    Finally Trump has proposed something on Free trade that I don’t have to get queasy over: just eliminate all tariffs! One hundred percent open competition. Of course the G7 and China won’t accept. I guess a true level playing field won’t work?”

    This is empty rhetoric and just shows he really does not believe in free trade, not a surprise. The old “unless everyone engages in free trade we cannot support free trade” is trash the AFL-CIO has been promoting for decades.

    The concept of free trade is something YOU use your leadership to fight for. It’s a principle. It’s not an ideal that depends on whether Communists in China or Cuba or Venezuela believe in it too.

    Anyone who thinks this means Trump is sincere about free trade probably believes in the tooth fairy too.

  728. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    If the FL Senate poll had had a positive result for Democrats, you can bet that it would have been posted a nano second after its release, led by Tekzilla, who parachutes into RRH whenever there is negative GOP news.
    There is a new RRH poster who describes himself as 21 years of age and as an ex-R. C’mon man, you are 21 and nobody swings the other way politically at such a young age. Another DKos Kid-phony on RRH.

  729. jason says:

    Robbie says:
    June 10, 2018 at 10:15 am

    Jason fraud
    “Do not go against Dear Leader Don.”

    jason says:
    June 10, 2018 at 10:18 am

    Anyone who thinks this means Trump is sincere about free trade probably believes in the tooth fairy too”

    Amoral scumbag strikes out again.

  730. Chicon says:

    Hmmm…I always thought free trade would be evidenced by an absence of tariffs. Fair trade would be even tariffs.

  731. jason says:

    So Amoral Scumbag, did you find the quote where I supported Trump’s trade policies and/or where I supported calling Kim “honorable”?

    $1000 on the line, you can send it to the candidate Bill Kristol is going to launch against Trump if you want.

    Let’s see who is the real lying fraud is.

  732. jason says:

    I always said I would not support candidates who oppose free trade or who support restrictionist immigration policies like family separation or deporting DACA. But who cares about past statements”

    Wow, Amoral Scumbag is really striking out today.

    Let’s see what I said just a couple posts ago.

    “Where I cannot agree with him, such as his disastrous and shortsighted AFL-CIO drivenn agenda trade policy, insistence on a border to border physical wall that will never be build instead of higher tech solutions that could be implemented,”

    Does that sound like I support Trump on trade and immigration?

    Oh, and another nugget in Amoral Scumbag’s post

    “I always said I would not support candidates”


    Poor amoral scumbag, still talking about “candidates”.

  733. Tina says:

    Truedope only cares about his stupid socks and his tariffs.

    He is a weak pm and now is engaged in a sexual battery charge.

    As for the gunment down south, it will change hands to the socialists aligned with the drug cartel.

    At this point quitting Nafta and doing separate agreements with each country may be best.

  734. Tina says:

    At this point given the socialists winning in Mexico and the cartels running wild, who would want to do business down there?

    It would be wise for the American companies to return home given the new gunment and the cartels.

  735. jason says:

    who support restrictionist immigration policies like family separation or deporting DACA”

    Amoral scumbag still lying about my positions.

    I always supported “restrictionist” immigration policies against ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

    I have made clear my support for LEGAL IMMIGRATION and my opposition to efforts to curtail it as exemplified by my well documented attacks on the Cotton-Perdue joke of a bill.

    I have always been against “deporting DACA” and have made clear my support for a DACA deal that involves a trade-off for more border security.

    So lying amoral scumbag, GFY.

  736. jason says:

    Border High tech solutions instead of a border wall?

    You mean like arming drones to shoot folks who attempt to cross the border? I agree, that seems like a better deterrent than a wall”

    I advocate for barriers, fences, walls for certain areas, but using drones, satellite surveillance, sensors, etc. for most of the border.

    A physical wall would have to be monitored anyway because without that it would be easy to go over it, through it, or under it. I would say that for 90% of the border, a physical wall is just money down a rat hole.

  737. jason says:

    Plus, a physical wall along the entire border is never going to be built anyway.

    The “all or nothing” approach here will yield what “all or nothing” usually yields: nothing.

  738. mnw says:

    Sheep 744

    I notice an anti-Israel emerging trend at RRH too. You don’t see too many other supposedly conservative sites (“from the RIGHT perspective”) where the posters are so, uh …UNDERSTANDING about Keith Ellison & Ilhan Omar.

    Ogglby & vastblightking are DEMs pure & simple, imo.

  739. jason says:

    You could have response teams along the more inhospitable sections of the border that would follow up with drones when breaches were detected that could pinpoint their location. The more inhospitable the area, the slower the illegals will be able to move after crossing. They can be monitored until they can be picked up and deported.

  740. jason says:

    I have never been to RRH.

    Sounds like a mini D-Kos from what I gather from the reports about it.

  741. Chicon says:

    Why let someone suffering from severe TDS get a rise out of you?

  742. Tgca says:

    I think if there was absolute fee trade, it would be best. I think Trump would be for that as well, but he also knows the Euro socialists will probably never go for it right out. I think he brought it up to box them in on a position because they look stupid and unfair if they argue tariffs over free trade.

    It was all strategy and he gained the upper hand because they’re all nodding their head like it’s a good idea and suggested pursuing it though I doubt they’ll actually pursue it on their own without a big push from the US. It’s not like this concept is ingenious. It’s just it’s so foreign to socialist leaning EuroCrats.

    Between that and catching them off guard on permitting Russia back in the G-7, clearly he put them on the defensive. This was smart too. Isn’t it better to keep your enemies closer, and clearly Russia wants back in so perhaps there could be something beneficial from that.

    They agreed on all other items accept climate change, as he also got them to agree publicly Iran is not to be trusted.

    So all in all, I think he accomplished his goal because at the end of the day, I believe deals will be cut to better benefit the US and that was Trump’s ultimate goal.

    Both sides will talk big for a few days to make it look good for home but I suspect in the long run, deals will be made that all can live with, though it may take a few months after some posturing and continued threats.

  743. JC says:


    Is Canada setting our dairy tariffs at 270% free trade?

  744. Chicon says:

    JC – clearly not, if logic is applied.

    The question remains – if one side is not engaging in free trade, should the US unilaterally engage in free trade?

  745. jason says:

    It’s ok JC, I guess the isolationist and protectionist agenda of the AFL-CIO of the last 30-40 years, including the hundreds of millions they have spent to elect liberal Dems, was the right and “modern” approach.

    Tariffs are “new and modern strategy” and protectionism and economic isolationism is conservative!

    We just didn’t know.

  746. jason says:

    if one side is not engaging in free trade, should the US unilaterally engage in free trade?”

    This is pure genius, and Trump is the first to have thought of this brilliant strategy, you have to give him credit.

    Unless all countries believe in free trade, nobody can advocate for free trade.


  747. JC says:


    You didn’t answer my question. Is Canada setting our dairy tariffs at 270% free trade?

  748. jason says:

    The AFL-CIO conservatives having discovered that tariffs are the greatest invention since sliced bread might want to bring back amputations to cure infections.

  749. jason says:

    Is Canada setting our dairy tariffs at 270% free trade?”

    I thought the AFL-CIO conservatives said Trump was just “posturing” and there would be no trade wars.

    Was he wrong?

    Or are the AFL-CIO conservatives who thought everyone was just going to sit around and let Trump impose unilateral tariffs wrong?

    You reap what you sow. If onlytariffs worked and didn’t cause retaliation.

    The opposite has always been true.

    I am sure the dairy farmers will be thanking Trump.

  750. Chicon says:

    JC – Jason has a hard time deciding what the right approach should be. He just posts the AFL-CIO mumbo jumbo.

  751. JC says:


    The whole idea of ‘free trade’ is a myth – or rather, having ZERO tariffs among all countries just isn’t going to happen. Because that’s the only TRUE form of free trade. Period. Anything else is not ‘free trade’. It’s just normal trade.

    You can call it whatever you like. But your idea of ‘free trade’ is grossly unfair to the US. And right now we have a president who wants a better deal… and realizes we have supreme economic power to make it happen

  752. JC says:

    Chicon says:
    June 10, 2018 at 12:22 pm
    JC – Jason has a hard time deciding what the right approach should be. He just posts the AFL-CIO mumbo jumbo.


    It’s okay Chicon, I understand cognitive dissonance when I see it. For the most part Jason acts rational, but when it comes to trade and immigration, he is acting purely on emotion and decades long held beliefs that he refuses to reconsider.

  753. JC says:

    But we expect this from our favorite resident A-hole!

  754. JC says:

    President Trump has now claimed in public a thousand times that current trade deals are unfair to America. How many counter-arguments have you seen in the news? None?

  755. JC says:

    Charles V Payne
    I know tariffs don’t work but why does Canada have these tariffs?
    270% dairy
    69.9% Sausage
    57.8% Barely Seed
    49% Durum Wheat
    26.5% Bovine/Meat
    18% Table Linen
    Why did Canada create “ingredient strategy” tariff in 2015?

    To protect those important industries and curb US imports

  756. lisab says:

    Police swooped on a garden party where a song mocking the death of terrorist Osama bin Laden was played.

    The force helicopter and 10 officers were sent to a home in Highdene Road, Cherry Hinton after a complaint from members of the public the music was too loud and people were allegedly shouting anti-Islamic abuse.

    Initially one officer was sent to the street at about 10pm on Thursday (May 25) but more arrived and the force helicopter was deployed when the officer called in for back up.

    Party goers claim the officer “took offence” at a song mocking dead terrorist Osama Bin Laden being played and called in reinforcements after pressing her ‘panic button’.

  757. Chicon says:

    772 – I guess Canada believes that tariffs have some purpose. They should double them all, given the unilateral disarmament approach often expressed here.

  758. Phil says:

    An incumbent at 45% is in a heap of trouble.

  759. Wes says:

    I see Scott is starting to lead Nelson consistently.

    I wonder if Nelson might be starting to suffer from the effects of old age. He isn’t running his usual aggressive campaign while Scott is dominating the narrative.

    I wonder if Nelson might not be an early out in November.

  760. Tina says:

    Nelson needs to be beaten

  761. Phil says:

    My thoughts as well, Wes. You know, he is going to be 76 I believe.

  762. Wes says:

    Tariffs will always be in effect among nations for a host of reasons. The key is to keep them from triggering a trade war and causing or worsening economic instability.

    We tried massive tariff increases in 1930. The results were highly undesirable.

    As Santayana once said, “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

  763. Wes says:

    By the way, Scott has a great ad out pointing out how Nelson has been in office almost continuously since 1972 and calling for change.

  764. Chicon says:

    What Wes seems to be saying (please correct me if not the case) is that free trade is not present, and that fair trade is the reasonable goal. Probably a reasonable position. If one country feels that another’s tariffs are too high and are causing a substantial trade imbalance, how does that country effectively alter the landscape without the threat or use of tariffs?

  765. Bitterlaw says:

    NYCmike says:

    June 10, 2018 at 8:55 am

    #725 – stupid.

    Not at all. NYC will praise Trump no matter what he does. For example, he pretends to not like tariffs but then defends Trump tariffs.

    NYC hated the Iran nuclear deal but I am sure that he will bend over backwards trying to defend any deal or no deal with North Korea.

  766. Chicon says:

    I’ll go out on a limb here….if they take the Iran deal and just switch the name to North Korea, NYC will have a fit.

  767. Wes says:

    You’re largely correct, Chicon. There is no such thing as absolute free trade. The goal then becomes to make trade equitable so as to keep consumers from being either priced out of the market or driven out of jobs.

    The solutions are not necessarily easy, but tariffs are something I would discourage as previous significant tariff increases in the 1890s and 1930s led to or worsened economic catastrophe.

    Granted, Reagan and GWB didn’t seriously hurt the economy with their tariffs, but they also instituted the tariffs on a smaller scale than Trump has threatened.

  768. Chicon says:

    Wes, I appreciate the response. I think Trump often sells his adversary that he’s capable of doing just about anything; then makes the best deal he can. Maybe that’s the case here.

  769. DW says:

    Paladin – 2018 House Dashboard
    C Dist | Cnt | Cook | Gonz. | Saba.| CNN | RCP | Avg Scr. — Latest Poll R/D
    CO_03 R | 149 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    NY_23 R | 150 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    OK_05 R | 151 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    SC_01 R | 152 | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    WA_03 R | 153 | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    IN_09 R | 154 | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    TX_31 R | 155 | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | 5.6 —
    CA_22 R | 156 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | 5.2 —
    FL_06* R | 157 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    MO_02 R | 158 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    NC_08 R | 159 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    OH_07 R | 160 | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    OH_10 R | 161 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    OH_15 R | 162 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | 5.2 —
    PA_14* D | 163 | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | 5.2 —
    PA_16 R | 164 | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | 5.2 — 48/43 (PPP)
    CA_50 R | 165 | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Sf R | Lk R | 5.2 —
    IN_02 R | 166 | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.8 —
    AZ_06 R | 167 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.8 —
    AZ_08 R | 168 | Sf R | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | 4.8 —
    FL_15* R | 169 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.8 —
    MI_01 R | 170 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.8 —
    FL_25 R | 171 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4.4 —
    CA_04 R | 172 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.4 —
    NC_02 R | 173 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.4 —
    OH_14 R | 174 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.4 —
    WI_06 R | 175 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.4 —
    MI_07 R | 176 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4.4 —
    MI_06 R | 177 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | Sf R | 4 —
    WV_03* R | 178 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 —
    GA_07 R | 179 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 —
    TX_21* R | 180 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 —
    FL_16 R | 181 | Lk R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | 4 — 49/37 (PPP)
    FL_18 R | 182 | Ln R | Sf R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 —
    IL_13 R | 183 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 — 45/42 (PPP)
    NJ_03 R | 184 | Ln R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Sf R | 4 — 48/44 (D-Internal)
    NY_24 R | 185 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 —
    IL_14 R | 186 | Lk R | Sf R | Ln R | Lk R | Lk R | 4 — 45/41 (PPP)
    AR_02 R | 187 | Ln R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | 3.6 — 47/42 (PPP)
    PA_10 R | 188 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | 3.6 —
    CA_21 R | 189 | Lk R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | 3.2 —
    VA_05 R | 190 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Sf R | 3.2 —
    MT_01 R | 191 | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | 3.2 —
    NY_01 R | 192 | Ln R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | 2.8 —
    NC_13 R | 193 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Lk R | 2.8 — 43/40 (PPP)
    WA_05 R | 194 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Lk R | 2.8 — 48/45 (PPP)
    GA_06* R | 195 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | 2.8 —
    OH_01 R | 196 | Ln R | Lk R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | 2.8 — 43/42 (PPP)
    IA_03 R | 197 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2.4 — 44/43 (PPP)
    NY_11 R | 198 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2.4 —
    VA_02 R | 199 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2.4 — 48/42 (PPP)
    NM_02* R | 200 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2 —
    ME_02 R | 201 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2 — 45/35
    VA_07 R | 202 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2 —
    KY_06 R | 203 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 2 —
    MI_08 R | 204 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | Lk R | 2 — 46/41 (PPP)
    TX_32 R | 205 | Ln R | Lk R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 2 —
    CA_45 R | 206 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 1.6 — 43/46 (PPP)
    KS_03 R | 207 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 1.6 —
    UT_04 R | 208 | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 1.6 — 47/43
    OH_12* R | 209 | Toss | Tlt R | Ln R | Ln R | Ln R | 1.4 — 43/33
    NC_09* R | 210 | Ln R | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Lk R | 1.4 — 42/37 (PPP)
    NE_02 R | 211 | Ln R | Tlt R | Ln R | Toss | Ln R | 1.4 —
    KS_02* R | 212 | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | Ln R | Toss | 1.2 —
    WI_01* R | 213 | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | Ln R | Toss | 1.2 —
    IL_06 R | 214 | Toss | Tlt R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 1 —
    TX_07 R | 215 | Toss | Tlt R | Ln R | Ln R | Toss | 1 — 47/45 (D-Int.)
    NJ_07 R | 216 | Toss | Tlt R | Ln R | Toss | Toss | 0.6 — 41/42 (PPP)
    IL_12 R | 217 | Toss | Ln R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.4 — 44/39 (PPP)
    ——–Democrats need ALL the below for control——-
    TX_23 R | 218 | Ln R | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.4 — 44/43 (PPP)
    MN_03 R | 217 | Toss | Ln R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.4 — 43/46 (PPP)
    CA_10 R | 216 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 — 48/37 (ALG-D)
    CA_25 R | 215 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 —
    CA_48 R | 214 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 — 48/44 (D-Internal)
    CO_06 R | 213 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 —
    NY_19 R | 212 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 — 41/43 (PPP)
    NY_22 R | 211 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 — 40/47 (Zogby)
    FL_26 R | 210 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 —
    PA_01 R | 209 | Toss | Tlt R | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0.2 — 49/42
    IA_01 R | 208 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 — 41/43 (D Internal)
    PA_17 R | 207 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 —
    MN_01* D | 206 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 —
    MN_02 R | 205 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 — 43/42 (PPP)
    MN_08* D | 204 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 —
    WA_08* R | 203 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 — 51/45
    VA_10 R | 202 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 —
    CA_39* R | 201 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | Toss | 0 — 41/38 (Remington-R)
    MI_11* R | 200 | Toss | Toss | Toss | Ln D | Toss | -0.4 — 42/45 (PPP)
    NJ_11* R | 199 | Ln D | Tlt D | Toss | Ln D | Toss | -1 — 42/40 (PPP)
    PA_07* R | 198 | Ln D | Tlt D | Toss | Ln D | Toss | -1 —
    NH_01* D | 197 | Ln D | Tlt D | Ln D | Ln D | Toss | -1.4 —
    NV_03* D | 196 | Ln D | Tlt D | Ln D | Ln D | Toss | -1.4 —
    CA_49* R | 195 | Ln D | Toss | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | -1.6 —
    AZ_02* R | 194 | Ln D | Tlt D | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | -1.8 —
    FL_27* R | 193 | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | -2 —
    NJ_02* R | 192 | Lk D | Tlt D | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | -2.2 — 39/44 (PPP)
    AZ_01 D | 191 | Ln D | Tlt D | Lk D | Ln D | Ln D | -2.2 —
    NV_04* D | 190 | Lk D | Lk D | Ln D | Ln D | Ln D | -2.8 — 37/42 (D Internal)
    FL_07 D | 189 | Lk D | Ln D | Lk D | Lk D | Ln D | -3.2 —
    CA_07 D | 188 | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Ln D | -3.6 —
    MN_07 D | 187 | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Ln D | -3.6 —
    NJ_05 D | 186 | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | Ln D | -4 —
    PA_06* R | 185 | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | -4 —
    PA_08 D | 184 | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | -4 —
    AZ_09* D | 183 | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | -4.4 —
    PA_05* R | 182 | Lk D | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | -4.4 —
    FL_13 D | 181 | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | Lk D | -4.8 —
    NH_02 D | 180 | Lk D | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | -4.8 —
    WI_03 D | 179 | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | Lk D | -5.2 —
    CA_24 D | 178 | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | -5.2 —
    CT_05* D | 177 | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | Sf D | Sf D | -5.2 —
    NY_18 D | 176 | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | Sf D | Lk D | -5.2 —
    IA_02 D | 175 | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | -5.6 —
    OR_05 D | 174 | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | -5.6 —
    NY_03 D | 173 | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Sf D | Lk D | -5.6 —

    *indicates open seat

  770. DW says: