Biden Leads 2020 Primary Field


We have a new poll for the Democratic primary race for President from Harris and Harvard and it shows Joe Biden starting the new election cycle with a lead over Bernie Sanders for the right to take on Donald Trump.

Joe Biden 25%
Bernie Sanders 18%
Hillary Clinton 12%
Elizabeth Warren 4%
Kamala Harris 4%
Michael Bloomberg 4%
Corry Booker 3%

This poll was done November 5-6 among 680 registered primary voters.

Posted by Dave at 5:40 am
Filed under: General | Comments (1,382)

1,382 Responses to “Biden Leads 2020 Primary Field”

  1. MichiganGuy says:


  2. MichiganGuy says:

    I hope creepy Joe wins. All Trump has to do is put TV ADs with Joe groping children. Easy win.

  3. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Florida update:
    At 2:15 am, Broward County had another vote dump which lowered Scott(R) Senate lead down to just under 22,000 votes and very close to automatic HAND RECOUNT territory.
    DeSantis’ lead for Governor is now in the 40,000 vote ranbe.
    Broward and Palm Beach claim they have more votes to count.

    Is the election being stolen?

  4. MichiganGuy says:

    Sheeple, they waited 18 years to get their revenge.

  5. Tina says:

    So, cnn claims that Acostad the intern did not “touch” the intern. They make this claim while showing a tape of it. They edit the tape to blur out him karate chopping her.

    Is cn and n serious?

  6. Wes says:

    Why is the FLSOS—a Republican—not involved in this?

  7. Tina says:

    Sheeple, why does the ny times and ap indicate at 100%, Scott leads by over 30.2k votes?

    Looks like everything is in?

  8. Tina says:

    The last Fl update happened at 1:40 am EST.

  9. MichiganGuy says:

    Tina, 100% doesn’t mean anything to the democrats. They will go up to 200% if, that is what it takes to win.

  10. Messy says:

    It’s too Effin’ early for presidential polling. But since the subject has been brought up. I provisionally endorse Avenatti.

  11. dblaikie says:

    It is sad that Nelson is going to put Florida through this nonsense. In the end when Broward is finished with their count the lead may be down to 15000 or even lower. Who knows? But there is no way that in a recount they are going to find that many votes. Bush only had a few thousand vote lead and he survived.

    Even if it is total hand recount we are past the days of hanging chads. And guess what they will get to recount in all those scores of GOP counties.

    Finally Broward and Palm Beach can’t keep counting forever — especially with Miami Dade and Duval in. If that happens then that would be corruption.

  12. sane_voter says:

    Here is the first page of the Broward ballot

    25,000 undervotes in Broward for the Senate race. They call it the Butterfly ballot Effect

  13. sane_voter says:

    I will be LMAO if this ends up being the difference in a Scott victory.

  14. lisab says:

    tucker carlson was doxxed yesterday

    protesters went to his house and made threatening remarks

  15. lisab says:

    another shooting unfortunately

  16. Todd McCain says:

    Nelson losing was the highlight of my night. I agree; they are not going to “find” 22,000 votes. Time for Nelson to pack it in; he looks like a sore loser.

  17. Wes says:

    Handel conceded this morning. I told Jason she wasn’t a good candidate. It was only a matter of time till her lackluster campaigning and poor fundraising caught up to her.

  18. Todd McCain says:

    Also, in hindsight way more resources should have went into WV. Manchin could have been beaten. Trump should have went to WV 2-3 more times instead of spending so much time in Montana.

  19. Wes says:

    Having won reelection, Manchin is now going full liberal. Who could have guessed that would happen? Anyone with an IQ higher than -800,000. That means no one other than Walt in West Virginia.

    West Virginians are too goddamn stupid to take seriously anymore.

  20. Wes says:

    Taking a page from their leader, Jim Jones—I mean, Donald Trump—the Trumpistas are now blaming everyone but themselves for Tuesday’s results:

  21. Todd McCain says:

    In PA the GOP held their own despite the PA Supreme Court; where we really took it on the chin is NJ — losing 4 seats and only one GOP congressman remains.

  22. Redmen4ever says:

    FL Undercount

    In theory, electing more state officers, municipal and county officers; easing access to the ballot for the ballot for third-party and independent candidates, and including several ballot measures on the ballot increases democracy. In practice, voter confusion often results.

    Here’s the real problem: there is no perfect system of voting.

  23. sandiegocitizen says:

    21. The newly elected Democrat claims to be a “moderate”. So when the liberals in the House start pushing their agenda, will she oppose it? If not, then could see the seat being won back by Republicans in 2020.

  24. Phil says:

    What makes you think they won’t find 22K more votes? They’ve found 11K without breaking a sweat.

  25. sane_voter says:

    RBG in the hospital with broken ribs after a fall.

  26. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    You are my go-to guy for No. Carolina political facts.
    After Tuesday’s election, how many seats did the Republicans net gain/lose in the NC House and the Senate? What will the composition be in each chamber come January?

  27. dblaikie says:

    Phil, simple a recount is just that. With the computer generated ballot it is not likely anymore that someone will find a truck load of ballots. No the time for cheating is right now with the counting of the absentees and provisional ballots. Once that count is done there won’t be much change in a machine recount.

    In addition if there is a hand recount, again it will be of ballots all ready cast, no hanging chads, no turning a recount into a subjective work of political bias.

  28. Waingro says:

    Ok, I’ve taken a day away from this thinking all was in the bag, but Sean Trende’s tweet here scares the living hell out of me. What’s going on ?!?! We might lose AZ now?

    Sean T at RCP
    ?Verified account @SeanTrende
    16m16 minutes ago

    I’ve gotten a few questions about the “split decision” narrative, and whether it should change if Ds pull out wins in FL-Sen and AZ-Sen (good chance in both!). This gets to one of my biggest pet peeves about elections analysis and sports analysis. 1/

  29. Wes says:

    Sheep, Republicans went -6 in the State Senate to 29-21 and -11 in the State House to 64-56.

    Not bad all things considered, though Cooper can now sustain his vetoes.

  30. Phil says:

    I’m not in the least worried about a recount. I’m worried about this never ending stream of votes coming out of Broward County. A steady stream of “found votes”? What votes”. What kind of votes? This is Broward County. You know damn well who controls the vote count in Broward. Hard partisan Democrats, that’s who.

  31. Wes says:

    Phil, the FLSOS is a Republican appointed by Rick Scott. One would think he would not let Nelson steal this race.

  32. jason says:

    Handel conceded this morning. I told Jason she wasn’t a good candidate.”


    She was the best candidate in the primary for the 2016 election and she won.

    This was another election in different circumstances.

    GFY and your moving goalposts.

  33. Phil says:

    You would think, Wes – but we’re watching it happen right before our very eyes.

  34. Robbie says:

    How in 2018 does it take days to count votes in Broward County does it take days to count votes. In 2000, every vote was counted by 8 AM the next day.

    I guess if Scott’s lead goes under 10,000 before a hand recount, that might be something. But to make up 21,000 votes from this point foward seems very unlikely.

    Aren’t many voting machines in FL electronic anyway? That makes a hand recount moot.

  35. Wes says:

    Go f uck yourself, Jason. Handel was trailing a Star Wars cosplaying carpetbagger till a Dem went on a rampage and refocused attention on the radical Left. She was always a weak candidate because of the same issues that cost her reelection Tuesday. I even said so at the time. She won her runoff berth strictly on name ID and was squandering her chance till a Dem threw her a lifeline. This was inevitable because Handel was never a very good candidate.

    You can live in denial all you like, but the results speak for themselves. Maybe Republicans will nominate a better candidate in 2020.

  36. Waingro says:

    I’m far more worried about AZ at this point. There really are (effectively) 600,000 votes that haven’t been counted?

  37. jason says:

    Even the MSM admits Amoral Scumbag is full of crap.

    “The point is that Trump’s messaging about the migrant caravan, which was so filled with unfounded claims and wildly conspiratorial insinuations, did not appear to cost him at all in deep red states like Georgia. Huge numbers of white voters who voted early in 2014 voted early again in 2018: 406,865 in all.

    If there were a sign that Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric had cost him among more traditional Republicans, that number would have been lower, and candidates in other states like Indiana, Missouri and Florida would have fared worse. But in those states with deep red constituencies, Republicans matched increased Democratic turnout with huge numbers of their own, a sign that they were able to excite and mobilize both traditional Republican voters and Trump voters who don’t regularly vote in off-year elections.”

  38. Phil says:

    Robbie, I was just going to post just before you made your comment that in 2000 the votes were all counted by now – except for the overseas ballots (primarily military) which were opened by the end of the week. I repeat all votes were counted by the day after the election.

    I don’t see any explanation here – just a steady stream of Democratic votes from a 2-1 Democratic County where the Democrats have 100% control of the election machinery.

    A Republican SOS is of little comfort here.

  39. dblaikie says:

    I am tense about Arizona myself. But I do take comfort that Maricopa County is not like Broward in Florida. Sinema is only ahead there by 1 point. If that trend holds it should be ok. My concern is how much recounting has to be done in Prima (Tuscon). If McSally were to lose thousands of votes it should be there.

  40. jason says:

    Wes is hilarious.

    Handel was an excellent candidate and the best the GOP had to offer in the election against a candidate the Dems spent tens of millions to elect. She won a nationalized election because she was a good campaigner.

    2018 was an unfavorable election for Rs with completely different circumstances.

    Trying to say Handel was a “bad candidate” in a year where the GOP lost 36 seats and dozens of incumbents lost is REALLY stupid.

    Handel was a good candidate in a bad year for House Rs. It happens.

    GFY again.

  41. dblaikie says:

    The longer it takes Broward to count votes the more fishy it will be. Miami Dade is in! It shouldn’t take them this long. Again though they are not going to find 21000 votes.

  42. Robbie says:

    The first four special elections in 2017 really were the canaries in the coal mine about 2018. They all showed a sizable drop in the Republican vote and the drop we saw in those races was just about the drop we saw in the competitive races this past Tuesday.

  43. Robbie says:

    If Nelson makes up 21,000 votes on the back of Broward County recount, then we’ve entered the mode of “vote creation” rather than “vote counting”.

  44. Waingro says:

    Heeeeeeere we go.

    Adam Levine
    ?Verified account @cnnadam

    NEW: Mueller’s team has begun writing its final report, multiple sources told CNN – @evanperez @PamelaBrownCNN @LauraAJarrett @SaraMurray

  45. jason says:

    Looks like Jeff Sessions will run against little Marxist turd Doug Jones in AL.

  46. Phil says:

    47. Agree that the longer it takes the more fishy it looks.

    I take some comfort from that…..but we’re talking about partisan Democrats here. Not sure they give a rat’s ass about how anything looks.

    Still, it doesn’t sound like the Scott campaign is particularly worried about it so far.

  47. Wes says:

    Jason is still jerking off to Handel after she proved her inability to hold a seat Republicans have held for decades.

    You can continue to live in Fantasy Land or acknowledge I was right about Handel. She was never an impressive candidate with a string of losses before Hodgkinson helped her out last year. She couldn’t hold the seat.

    Oh, yes. A truly great candidate. She’s a regular Kristi Noem. 🙄

  48. Waingro says:

    WCBS Newsradio 880
    ?Verified account @wcbs880

    THIS JUST IN: CBS News has learned former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is being considered to replace Jeff Sessions as Attorney General.

  49. Waingro says:

    Sean T at RCP
    ?Verified account @SeanTrende
    2m2 minutes ago

    Sean T at RCP Retweeted John W.

    To get this off the table since ppl are focusing on it: AZ Sinema clearly has a good chance to win. Going off county results you’d give an edge to McSally, but these ballots are probably more Democratic. Could be very close. FL, who knows what lurks in provisionals, etc.

  50. Robbie says:

    Karen Handel was a mediocre candidate when she won the primary in 2017, but the field was mediocre. But it was also the environment that hurt her. Six months after Trump won in 2016, there was already a strong move against Republicans and that showed in her race against Ossoff.

  51. Robbie says:

    I’m not sure enough attention has been paid to just how badly Republicans did in the suburbs. Effectively, Trump has done to suburban Republicans what Obama did to rural Democrats. There’s a very good chance those seats aren’t coming back for a long time.

  52. Todd McCain says:

    Re Arizona, I am concerned. I don’t understand what is taking so long to “count” these votes.

  53. Phil says:

    As far as the suburbs go I can only report on what happened in Texas. The suburbs around Houston held up surprisingly well – Cruz lost 2 to 3 points in the Houston suburbs of Montgomery, Galveston, and Brazoria County. Ft Bend County he was down about 7(all comparisons to the last presidential election). The rest of the state not so well. About a ten point drop off in the Austin suburbs. The Dallas very large suburban counties of Collin and Denton Counties the Republican margins over Beto were cut in half. Cruz won the state by two and a half points and if Republicans actually lose the suburbs even marginally the state becomes a tossup. All that said, Romney carried the suburbs of Dallas with 60 percent. Trump carried Collin with 55 percent and Denton with 57% – so they were already trending down even against a terrible candidate like Hillary.

  54. Todd McCain says:

    How does Nelson have a good chance when Scott has already been declared the winner by multiple organizations?

  55. Mr.Vito says:


    1988: 57-42 R
    1992: 41-39 D
    1996: 47-42 D
    2000: 49-47 R
    2002: 59-41 R
    2004: 52-47 R
    2006: 52-48 D
    2008: 50-48 D
    2010: 55-42 R
    2012: 51-47 R
    2014: 56-44 R
    2016: 53-45 R
    2018: 49-49 TIE

  56. Phil says:

    Todd, the only election organization that matters is the hacks “counting” the votes in Broward County.

    That said, the fact that Scott hasn’t seemed to be worried all that much about it tells me 22K is out of reach.

  57. hugh says:

    in Broward you fill out a paper ballot where there is no risk of people error, like with the hanging chads and it is then fed into a computer. If any county was capable of serious manipulation its broward. However, this should be wrapped up quickly.

  58. Todd McCain says:

    NYT shows 99% in and McSally with a 17K vote lead. What am I missing here?

  59. jaichind says:

    @61 Mr. Vito. Are these numbers from Prez years from the Prez exit poll or House exit poll? Sometimes, especially like recently in 2016, there are significant ticket splitting between Prez and House races. Ideally they are all from the House exit poll for apples-to-apples comparison.

  60. Mr.Vito says:


  61. Mr.Vito says:

    1992 should be 51-49 D

  62. Mr.Vito says:

    Here is NYT exit polls through 2012. Only significant difference is 1996 is R.

  63. Mr.Vito says:

    Clearly the suburbs flip.

  64. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    November 8, 2018 at 11:04 am
    As far as the suburbs go I can only report on what happened in Texas. The suburbs around Houston held up surprisingly well – Cruz lost 2 to 3 points in the Houston suburbs of Montgomery, Galveston, and Brazoria County. Ft Bend County he was down about 7(all comparisons to the last presidential election). The rest of the state not so well. About a ten point drop off in the Austin suburbs. The Dallas very large suburban counties of Collin and Denton Counties the Republican margins over Beto were cut in half. Cruz won the state by two and a half points and if Republicans actually lose the suburbs even marginally the state becomes a tossup. All that said, Romney carried the suburbs of Dallas with 60 percent. Trump carried Collin with 55 percent and Denton with 57% – so they were already trending down even against a terrible candidate like Hillary.

    – The question I have is this. Was Cruz’s vote total a reflection of the fact Cruz just isn’t an easy to guy to like? He spent his first term operating as an abrasive Tea Party person who engineered the shutdown in 2013 and went out of his way to attack the leadership of his own party. And that culminated with his presidential run. He certainly spent the last two years toning down his style, but did the first four years weigh him down? Given that Abbott won with ease, I suspect the narrowness of the race had a lot to do with Cruz himself.

  65. lisab says:

    Clearly the suburbs flip

    especially if you look at the suburbs during mid-terms

    they tend to go against the party in power,

    49-49 in a midterm is not at all bad.

  66. lisab says:

    it will be VERY bad if Nelson and McSally lose

  67. Robbie says:

    lisab says:
    November 8, 2018 at 11:27 am
    Clearly the suburbs flip
    especially if you look at the suburbs during mid-terms
    they tend to go against the party in power,
    49-49 in a midterm is not at all bad.

    – LOL. Ha! LOL. Ha!

  68. lisab says:

    where are the military votes streaming in?

  69. lisab says:

    they were 52-48 in the last republican midterm

  70. lisab says:

    52-48 D

  71. Todd McCain says:

    Been reading more about this stuff; AZ and FL are ridiculous, GOP needs to sue and put an end to it. Very suspect when ballots just “show up”.

  72. CG says:

    Two suburban Texas House Republicans were unseated in what had been solidly Republican territory.

    One by an African-American and one by a very liberal female.

  73. Robbie says:

    Looking at the result from Ohio and West Virginia, those who thought Renacci would be a better candidate than JD Vance (who McConnell wanted) were probably wrong and those who thought Morrissey would be a better candidate than Evan Jenkins (who McConnell wanted) were probably wrong as well. In the case of West Virginia, Manchin did well in the areas covered by Jenkins’ district.

  74. Mr.Vito says:

    A full 18 of seats the Ds flipped or currently are leading are within a 2 point swing or less.

  75. lisab says:

    ginsberg fell

    this could be bad for her

  76. Mr.Vito says:

    I guess actual data doesn’t matter to some.

  77. Mr.Vito says:

    Not the first time she fell, lisab.

  78. lisab says:

    the election could be looking pretty good for trump if rbg retires

  79. Mr.Vito says:

    Always could be bad at that age though.

  80. lisab says:

    she is seriously hurt this time

  81. Mr.Vito says:

    She broke ribs last time too.

  82. CG says:

    Not all suburbs are the same.

    Some are traditionally blue-collar that have typically been supportive of Democrats. Trump won over a lot of those voters.

    Others, are more white-collar and upscale and while becoming increasingly diverse ethnically and racially, have been heavily Republican for a long time now. Under Trump, there is a huge switch now there towards Democrats.

    Which of these switches is more sustainable? Which is more damaging for a political party in the long-term?

  83. lisab says:

    that cannot be good at 85

    i heard sen paul is still having problems and he is 30+ years younger

  84. Mr.Vito says:

    You can die from simple procedures at 85.

  85. lisab says:

    #Ginsburg. I just pictured Kavanaugh strategically placing banana peels on the floor hoping she’d break a hip.

  86. Mr.Vito says:

    Banana peels are racist.

    #Impeach Kavanaugh

  87. lisab says:

    Weekend at Ginsberg’s

  88. Mr.Vito says:

    It might have been an antisemite riled up by the presser yesterday, lisab.

  89. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    November 8, 2018 at 11:33 am
    I guess actual data doesn’t matter to some.

    – Look at the individual races. Republicans lost all across the country in the suburbs. Just because the races were close doesn’t matter. They still lost and these were districts where Hillary defeated Trump in 2016. The same thing happened with all of those rural districts McCain won in 2008, but were also won by a Democrat Congressman. In 2010, Democrats lost those districts and have not really come close to regaining them.

    In a presidential year with Trump on the ballot, those areas will be even tougher to win back. The power of incumbency and the realignment that appears to be taking place will be tough to overcome. Democrats could very well enshrine their footholds in those places in 2020, especially if Lunatic Don craters in the general.

    In 2006, Anne Northup lost narrowly to John Yarmuth in Louisville. She ran again in 2008 and lost by 20 points to him. The closeness doesn’t matter. It’s the trend.

  90. Mr.Vito says:

    CNN is looking into it.

  91. Mr.Vito says:

    The trend is the suburban votes flip.

  92. CG says:

    Suburban/metropolitian districts that Trump won went Democrat in some cases too.

  93. lisab says:

    The trend is the suburban votes flip.

    that is not the answer he wants

  94. CG says:

    They aren’t going to be flipping back to Trump in 2020.

    That dye is cast.

    His supporters better hope that as many 85 year old white people stay alive as long as possible.

  95. Phil says:

    Robbie, the reason Cruz won by only 2.5 was the continued demographic shift in Texas and they finally had a candidate (Beto) who reved them up to vote in the urban centers.

    Want an example? Houston Independent School District is now composed of 7% white students. Cruz did just as well with whites statewide as always. Dallas and Houston are both well over 60% Hispanic now. It’s math. That simple.

    It’s the reason I get so upset with you for poo pooing the border. Try cobbling 270 electoral votes together without Texas.

  96. lisab says:

    That dye is cast.

    where is mnw when he would be amused?

  97. CG says:

    Texas will certainly be lost to Republicans eventually if attitudes towards the Republican Party among Latinos persist. It won’t take any sort of recent immigration to cause that either.

    I know some believe that secretly Latinos love Trump.

  98. Mr.Vito says:

    Well, he’s talking about rural votes now… the trend there would be they don’t flip.

  99. CG says:

    die is kassed…

  100. lisab says:

    vichey vichey vichey

    casting dyes again

  101. Robbie says:

    lisab says:
    November 8, 2018 at 11:46 am
    The trend is the suburban votes flip.
    that is not the answer he wants

    – LOL. You two just can’t quit Trump no matter how much damage he does to the party. The conman’s hold is strong with each of you.

    Look at how long Republicans have held districts like the one Pete Sessions lost. Look at how long Republicans have held districts like the one Barbara Comstock lost. Look at how long Republicans held districts like the one Karen Handel lost. Look at how long Republicans held the districts like the ones they lost in NJ. Look at how long Republicans held the districts like the one Pete Roskum lost.

    And by the way, I thought the HHR rule was exit polls are garbage?

  102. lisab says:

    ginsberg is at significant risk of death,

    this is not a trivial injury

  103. Mr.Vito says:

    The data is a Trumpbot, lisab.

  104. CG says:

    The suburban Houston district that John Culberson (who was first elected in 2000) lost is basically the descendent of the district (there was some re-districting recently) that George Bush first won in 1966 and was held after that for decades by Bill Archer. At one point, it was probably the most Republican district in the country.

  105. Mr.Vito says:

    Initial exit polls are garbage.

    Final exit polls include data.

  106. lisab says:

    You two just can’t quit Trump

    correlation is

  107. Marv says:


    I thought RBG’s injuries were cracked ribs. I there more to it?

  108. lisab says:

    The data is a Trumpbot

    i thought pilots had to take math?

  109. CG says:

    The areas that Roskam represented would have been Republican since at least the 1940s.

    The Randy Hultgren district going Democrat is an even bigger surprise.

    (a side note is that Hultgren, who is a super-nice guy, and very religious, is far too passive for today’s politics and he did not have the stomach to attack his opponent on some big vulnerabilities. They basically let the Democrats take it away.)

  110. lisab says:

    I thought RBG’s injuries were cracked ribs. I there more to it?

    i looked it up

    cracked ribs are actually a major cause of death for the elderly.

    i am sure she has the best treatment, but this is not a band-aid situation.

    mostly the danger is infection or pneumonia

  111. CG says:

    It is fine to wish that Ruth Bader Ginsburg will choose to retire while there is a Republican President.

    Wishing death upon her (not that anyone here would do that) is despicable though.

    I hope she has a complete recovery.

  112. CG says:

    It is fine to wish that Ruth Bader Ginsburg will choose to retire while there is a Republican President.

    Wishing death upon her (not that anyone here would do that) is despicable though.

    I hope she has a complete recovery.

  113. marc says:

    The Florida GOP isn’t worried about Mr. Magoo and his lawyer, we wrote the recount laws to make sure is transparent and things like finding ballots of the blue don’t happen.

    Rick Scott will be Florida’s Junior Senator, whether Bill Nelson wakes up from his nap or not.

  114. GF says:

    116- BINGO! I’m surprised no one else mentioned it, that pneumonia is the big killer amongst injuries with the elderly. I’ve known a fair number who had “trivial accidents” and minor falls, all of whom later succumbed to pneumonia.

  115. BayernFan says:

    Fir an 85 year old with health problems a fall can be deadly. Broken bones put a lot of stress on the body and things can cascade and go south very quickly. Happened to my mom.

  116. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    November 8, 2018 at 11:47 am
    Robbie, the reason Cruz won by only 2.5 was the continued demographic shift in Texas and they finally had a candidate (Beto) who reved them up to vote in the urban centers.
    Want an example? Houston Independent School District is now composed of 7% white students. Cruz did just as well with whites statewide as always. Dallas and Houston are both well over 60% Hispanic now. It’s math. That simple.
    It’s the reason I get so upset with you for poo pooing the border. Try cobbling 270 electoral votes together without Texas.

    – I’m sorry, but I disagree. Cruz won narrowly because Cruz comes off as a jerk. And let’s not forget Cruz only got 56% of the vote in 2012.

    Cruz played the role of hard edged partisan warrior and it didn’t play well. Also, it took $70 million from Beto to do what he did. Is that kind of money going to be spent by the person who runs against Cornyn in 2020? Will the Democrat presidential nominee spend a penny there?

    I’m quite certain the demography issue hurt Cruz and Republicans, but was that because demography is destiny or is that because we just spent two years listening to Trump’s constant immigration harangues that clearly tuned off the Hispanic comunity?

  117. CG says:

    Clearly, Governor Abbott did a good deal better in Texas, against an Hispanic opponent to boot.

    Yes, people just do not like Ted Cruz.

  118. Dylan says:

    119—I would agree that the complete silence from the Scott campaign on the issue of finalizing and certifying the vote *COULD* be an implied confidence that they have this thing, but it certainly is strange to us outsiders. Why on earth are we still IN 2018 dealing with election systems that cannot count and certify votes within 24 hours of an election??

    Additionally, it should be fairly clear going back to 2000 that FL is a dead heat style state. I sure hope the GOP has election lawyers that are prepared to stop stealth efforts to manufacture votes. DEMS play to win and revenge is a powerful motivator. perhaps more than anything.

  119. VictrC says:

    Talking about Texas I would like to add that while demographics have something to do with it, this Senate race also had the candidate. While Abbott still won comfortably by 12% with the Democrat (who is a Hispanic) still coming in at only 42%, the rest of the statewide races were only 6% victories. I think a lot of this had to do with the Robert Francis (fake hispanic Beto) effect.

    A lot of people who were never interested in politics voted because of all the money that poured into the state for the F-bomb man. It had an effect down ballot. I don’t think in 2020 you will see the races this close in Texas.

    also remember that Hispanics that are in Texas are different that those in California. Many of them are still Texans first since they have been here for 150 years and are just as conservative as white voters.

    Still….we should ABSOLUTELY be worried about the border.

  120. lisab says:

    pneumonia is the big killer amongst injuries with the elderly.

    that is how my mother died, years ago.

  121. CG says:

    By the way, was there any Governor or Senate race anywhere in which the result turned out to be basically any different than what the final polls showed?

    I can’t really think of one. The closest might be DeSantis winning, although some polls showed that was possible.

    The bottom line is that in this cycle, polling turned out to be fairly reliable.

    (Rasmussen having the Republicans with a 1 percent lead in the generic ballot on the eve of the election aside.)

  122. lisab says:

    I would agree that the complete silence from the Scott campaign on the issue of finalizing and certifying the vote *COULD* be an implied confidence …

    what party is thought to hold the florida high court?

  123. Dylan says:

    The suburbs swing like pendulums. I love hearing how some here think they are “gone forever.” They aren’t, notwithstanding demographic changes which do impact long term the viability of certain strategies to win. GOP ran crappy candidates, had a TON of retirements, faced a midterm headwind, and frankly, the GOP congress (House) didn’t exactly deliver all that much–a “fake” tax cut, inadequate funding on border wall, no real solution to Obamacare (although that was not entirely their fault–but still–THEY DID NOT PRODUCE). This is not magic or rocket science.

  124. CG says:

    The current Lt. Gov and AG and I believe Ag Commissioner in Texas are all considered divisive, and similar to Cruz.

    How did George P. Bush do? I will have to look up his margin.

  125. VictrC says:

    sorry part of my post got erased.

    When talking about the candidates Cruz had something to do with it. Even hard core conservatives don’t like him and chose to skip over him when they voted. Liberal Hollywood Favorite only came in about 1% better than other D candidates, though as I said earlier, I think their % was inflated by all the money poured into Beto from out of state.

  126. lisab says:

    By the way, was there any Governor or Senate race anywhere in which the result turned out to be basically any different than what the final polls showed?

    ayotte comes to mind

  127. Robbie says:

    CG says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:06 pm
    By the way, was there any Governor or Senate race anywhere in which the result turned out to be basically any different than what the final polls showed?
    I can’t really think of one. The closest might be DeSantis winning, although some polls showed that was possible.
    The bottom line is that in this cycle, polling turned out to be fairly reliable.
    (Rasmussen having the Republicans with a 1 percent lead in the generic ballot on the eve of the election aside.)

    – And yet in 2020 when polls show Trump losing to whomever the Democrats nominate, there will be post after post here saying the polling is wrong and that the only one that can be trusted is Rasmussen.

    Also, Rasmussen has Trump’s election day approval rating at 51%. It was 44% in the exit poll data and the massive FoxNews voter file survey.

  128. CG says:

    Can anybody point to a time when Republicans had a really bad midterm in terms of the House and then rebounded two years later and won the Presidential election?

    Democrats can claim they have done that at least.

    1982? I don’t think it was as bad as this year was for Republicans. The country still felt like it was in a recession that fall. The economy rebounded quickly after and Reagan won 49 states.

    I don’t think Trump is another Reagan politically.

  129. Mr.Vito says:

    Cruz lost people born in Texas 51-48.
    He won because of transplants (won 57-42).

  130. lisab says:

    And yet in 2020 when polls show Trump losing to whomever the Democrats nominate, there will be post after post here saying the polling is wrong and that the only one that can be trusted is Rasmussen.

    so like 2016 🙂

  131. Robbie says:

    Dylan says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:07 pm
    The suburbs swing like pendulums. I love hearing how some here think they are “gone forever.”

    – They may swing at the presidential level, but I’m talking about the House level. In 2006, the last midterm Democrat House wave, the Democrats didn’t come close to winning these kinds of districts. Now, they won a slew of them.

  132. jason says:

    Clearly, Governor Abbott did a good deal better in Texas, against an Hispanic opponent to boot.

    Yes, people just do not like Ted Cruz.”

    Ted Cruz is not a likeable guy, but he has won elections by bigger margins anyway, mostly because he is a got fit ideologically

    That was not the reason the election was close.

    The reason his race was closer than Abbot’s is that his opponent was much better funded than Abbot’s, over 70 million spent and all the “rock star” hype and 24/7 media support. A lot of people were taken in, and some morons really thought “Beto” was Hispanic too.

  133. jason says:

    “got fit”

    More coffee pls.

  134. Marv says:


    Gov DeSantis will appoint 3 new FL Supreme Court judges in Jan.

  135. CG says:

    I didn’t know Ayotte was on the ballot this year.

  136. VictrC says:

    George P actually won by 11%, one of the largest statewide margins of victory

  137. lisab says:

    Can anybody point to a time when Republicans had a really bad midterm in terms of the House and then rebounded two years later and won the Presidential election?


  138. Mr.Vito says:

    In 1982, Reagan gained 1 senate seat.. the result? 54-46 R

    He lost 26 house seats in a house that was already 243-192 D.

  139. lisab says:

    I didn’t know Ayotte was on the ballot this year.

    you did not say this year

  140. jason says:

    Here is what I think.

    If conservatives and Republicans don’t unite behind Trump the GOP will lose everything in 2020.

    You read it here first.

  141. BayernFan says:

    1970!! Lol

  142. VictrC says:

    Jason…your assessment was correct. Never underestimate what $70M in campaign money can do, not to mention the tremendous amount of earned media this guy got because he used a hispanic psuedo-name instead of Robert Francis.

    That probably dwarfed his cash total by 3x. When thinking about it, its almost amazing that Cruz actually won. There were a lot of things against him, many self-inflicted

  143. Robbie says:

    Pam Bondi is laughably being floated as a potential AG choice. Why not just put a manikin in the job?

    Obviously, she won’t be the pick because she couldn’t be confirmed, but I guess Trump is trying to do something nice for her by floating her name. I wonder if Janine Pirro will get mentioned.

  144. Mr.Vito says:

    “If conservatives and Republicans don’t unite behind Trump the GOP will lose everything in 2020.”

    They already said they are “stuck” with Trump yesterday. The data shows they have a path to 270, and only need to swing independents by about 3%.

    So, you may be right.

  145. BayernFan says:


  146. jason says:

    Giving up on Trump because of the “suburbs” would be a huge mistake.

    The suburbs did not help Dole, McCain or Romney win and all 3 won them massively.

    What CAN win is a coalition of the blue collar vote Trump brought into the GOP in 2016 AND traditional Republicans.

    There is no winning formula outside of that.

  147. BayernFan says:


  148. Robbie says:

    jason says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:15 pm
    Here is what I think.
    If conservatives and Republicans don’t unite behind Trump the GOP will lose everything in 2020.
    You read it here first.

    – The issue isn’t going to be whether Republicans and conservatives unite around Trump. After all, they did in 2016. For all o the yapping about #neverTrump, it was an asterisk in polling.

    The issue will be Independent voters. they supported Trump in 2016, but they turned against Republicans in 2018.

  149. marc says:

    Spoken like a weak Bush RINO. More worried about there press clippings then principals.’Pam Bondi would make an excellent AG.

  150. lisab says:

    Giving up on Trump because of the “suburbs” would be a huge mistake.

    he is a favourite to win

    his chances may be below 50%, but right NOW, the dems don’t have a clear answer

    although personally i would nominate biden. however, he may not be able to win the primaries.

  151. Mr.Vito says:

    The GOP blew it on health care… the data is clear. You won’t be able to fix it now with Nancy in there.

    If you want to win, pass some bills in the Senate that protect preexisting conditions and let Nancy vote them down.

  152. Mr.Vito says:

    That is the path.

  153. CG says:

    As I mentioned, people thought the economy sucked in 1982, and then by 1984, it was Morning in America.

    This year, people think the economy is going very well. They didn’t vote to give the incumbent President’s party the credit. In the swing suburban House districts, they were more upset about his immigration rhetoric and posturings.

  154. jason says:

    I am no fan of Ted Cruz. While I admire his intellect and think he has a sharp legal mind, he comes off as an arrogant ass most of time.

    I hope this close election is a warning to him that just grandstanding in the senate won’t get him elected again.

    Of course Rs might have enough votes now in the senate to confirm him to SCOTUS.

    I would love to see the MSM meltdown and see how many women who swear under oath he molested their children and gang raped them.

  155. Mr.Vito says:

    The data shows people did not vote on the economy this year.

  156. CG says:

    Also of course in 1982, there were still actual conservative Democrats in Congress and they held many districts where Reagan was popular (and more than a few actual liberal Republicans still too.)

  157. Mr.Vito says:

    They voted on health care.

  158. Mr.Vito says:

    And health care is what the Ds ran on in every suburban district…

  159. Marv says:


    I assume, based upon your postings, that you are a fellow Floridian and are quite familiar with FL politics.

    If so, what is your opinion about this Broward Co vote problem? How much of a problem is it for DeSantis and Scott?

  160. Robbie says:

    No incumbent president with a 44% job approval rating is going to win re-election. The only way Trump improves his approval rating is he changes the way he acts. And if yesterday’s press conference was any indication, he’s not going to change the way he acts. And if the best Trump can do is a 44% approval rating with a roaring economy, what happens if the economy lags just a bit over the next two years.

    Trump will be a decided underdog in 2020. I’m not saying he can’t win, but he will start in a very deep hole because he will have four years as president on which to be judged and he won’t have Hillary Clinton as his opponent.

  161. Mr.Vito says:

    The GOP has the Senate it needs two years too late.

  162. CG says:

    They voted on health care because that’s what the Democrats pushed. They voted because Trump and the Republicans scared them on healthcare.

    They did not vote for Democrats because they wanted Obamacare repealed.

    Trump (who called GOP plans to replace Obamacare “mean” and torpedoed Congressional efforts to pass legislation) made Obamacare more popular.

  163. Phil says:

    Sorry. But it’s demographics. Every Republican judge in Harris County got wiped out Tuesday. None of them was named Cruz. The Republican County Judge was defeated by a 27 year old naturalized Citizen from Columbia who has never held a full time job. The county judge heads the commissioner’s court and runs the county. The former county judge was well respected. It did not matter.

  164. CG says:

    Trump might have a slight chance of winning reelection (though virtually none of winning the popular vote, not that it matters Constitutionally) because Democrats have so many problems and may nominate a horrible candidate.

    This is assuming there is not a significant third party effort in the country. If so, that outcome could be unknown.

    Long-term though, after Trump, Republicans on a path to go extinct the longer Trumpism is followed.

    The best bet for Republicans to win a traditional two-party election in 2020 is to have Trump be gone and to defeat a liberal Democrat opponent with a lot more moderate and Independent voters, including many who went for Hillary in 2016, simply because they could not abide Trump.

    But the Trump Cult of Personality will die-hard, on HHR and elsewhere.

  165. jason says:

    In the swing suburban House districts, they were more upset about his immigration rhetoric and posturings.”

    I think that is a left wing MSM talking point.

    I see no evidence Rs in suburbia want open borders.

    It’s possible that there are a lot of Amoral Scumbags that care about what Trump tweets about fake journalist’s faces out there, but I doubt it.

    I think most of the losses are explained by the historical trend that the party in power loses seats.

    I think Trump helped the GOP more than he hindered it, as shown by the Senate results which he was instrumental in achieving.

    As Instapundit put it in his USA Today column, the blue wave was really a purple puddle.

  166. Mr.Vito says:

    The Democrats pushed it because it was their winning issue.

    They knew the GOP blew it.

  167. Cash Cow TM says:

    “That dye is cast.”
    This is a CORRECT statement…on its face.
    A powdery vial of some color of dye can be thrown (cast).

    If you shoot and murder someone and then throw the body over a cliff, then it is also proper to say “the die is cast.”
    If you mean one of a pair of DICE, then that is a “die”. (Not to be confused with “Lady Di”.

    If you cast one die, then “the die IS cast.”
    If you cast the pair of dice, then it is
    “the dice ARE cast.”

    If it is Andrew Clay Dice’s pair of dice made out of clay you say:
    “Andrew Dice Clay’s clay dice done be casted.”

    Unless you are meaning the dangling plural perpendicular of the noun gerund of the hypotenuse.
    Then you say “the die ARE cast.”

    Unless you are an urban dweller and then you say
    “roll them bones!”


  168. Mr.Vito says:

    “I see no evidence Rs in suburbia want open borders.”

    You are right… I posted all the data yesterday. The major swing occurred on health care.

  169. Cash Cow TM says:

    “Clearly, Governor Abbott did a good deal better in Texas, against an Hispanic opponent to boot.”
    This is clearly a racist statement by CG.

    He implies that it is right and proper for white man Abbott to boot an opponent if they are Hispanic.

  170. CG says:

    Suburban swing-voters may not want “open borders” but they did not like hearing about Executive Orders to take citizenship away from people and whether you believe it is fair or not, they did view Trump’s rhetoric as racist and divisive.

    The recent events in the news, while not the fault of Trump, still scared people, involving the MAGA bomber, and the Pittsburgh terrorist who while apparently not a fan of Trump personally, was using Trump talking points about the caravan as his rationale to kill Jews.

    Amish Country is detached from the suburbs.

  171. Cash Cow TM says:

    On a related note…

    Why do so many people make statements like z”I had to go all around Robin Hood’s barn to get home.”

    Robin Hood was not a farmer and he had no barn.

    think about it….

  172. lisab says:

    This is a CORRECT statement

    except that is not the quote

  173. Phil says:

    Yes, Culberson was beaten with a stick on healthcare. That’s al Lizzie Fletcher talked about in her ads. Of course when an incumbent makes no effort to campaign himself…..

  174. Cash Cow TM says:

    Cow’s cell phone is blowing up with texts from right wingers and left wingers about Ruth B. Ginsburg falling and hurting herself.

    The right wingers are hoping she hit her head.
    The left wingers are hoping she did not.

  175. jason says:

    The best bet for Republicans to win a traditional two-party election in 2020 is to have Trump be gone and to defeat a liberal Democrat opponent with a lot more moderate and Independent voters, including many who went for Hillary in 2016, simply because they could not abide Trump.”

    That is complete hogwash. There is no such person to start with. You need a candidate.

    The only person that can put together the kind of winning coalition that could win 2020 is Trump.

    We have tried the push for winning with “moderates and Indies”, I was a strong proponent of it myself.

    But 2016 showed me the fallacy of that strategy. No other R would have won against Hillary because none of them would have won PA, WI and MI.

    Nominate a Nikki Haley and the blue collar vote will go right back to voting Dem. I say this even though I would rather have Nikki Haley as President than Trump.

    I think its Trump or bust for the GOP. THis could change, he could be indicted or get ill or something dramatic could happen, but right now we all unite behind him or kiss the 2020 election goodbye.

  176. lisab says:

    The right wingers are hoping she hit her head.

    i don’t think so

    no reports i have seen say that

  177. Mr.Vito says:

    “I think most of the losses are explained by the historical trend that the party in power loses seats.”

    I suppose, but the GOP could have held the house. The polls showed they would after Kavanaugh.

    The slide in polling after Kavanaugh came when Ryan and McConnell started talking about Medicaid, Medicare, and other entitlement cuts Mid-October.

    The Ds jumped on that.

  178. CG says:

    A different Republican wouldn’t have needed PA, WI, and MI then or now.

    Other recent Republican Presidents didn’t.

    As it stands, Trump will probably lose all three if he runs again.

    In the meantime, states that Republicans have won recently at the Presidential level such as VA, CO, and NM, and perhaps NH are far gone.

  179. Cash Cow TM says:

    Joe Biden 25%
    Bernie Sanders 18%
    Hillary Clinton 12%
    Elizabeth Warren 4%
    Kamala Harris 4%
    Michael Bloomberg 4%
    Corry Booker 3%

    Which of these centrist Democrats will be the nominee in 2020?

  180. Mr.Vito says:

    “Yes, Culberson was beaten with a stick on healthcare. That’s al Lizzie Fletcher talked about in her ads.”

    Well, there you go… it will be more helpful to the GOP when anecdote lines up with data.

  181. lisab says:

    speaking of ginsberg

    that may be why suddenly all these votes are being found in florida and arizona

    i imagine the dems are filling out ballots as quickly as possible

  182. CG says:

    If it’s Trump or bust, it will have to be done again with a divided party, and a whole lot of luck.

    I think he has other serious problems that may prevent him running, but we will see what happens. It may very well be bust.

    Or Democrats can be so bad once again, and have learned nothing from Hillary, that they might possibly lose, at least in the EV.

    Eventually though, the old white people are going to be passing away. The blue collar areas are going to be less populated. There will more and more people of color voting and the Republican Party that Trump wants to show the nation will be wiped out.

    So, hope for as many wins as you can. I’d rather think long-term.

  183. CG says:

    The white candidates in this Dem 2020 poll are a combined 369 years old.

  184. lisab says:

    Which of these centrist Democrats will be the nominee in 2020?


    betting sites say harris

  185. Cash Cow TM says:

    To win POTUS in 2020, the GOP needs to run their most popular favorite son/daughter in every state and in the red states have enough individual favorite sons/daughters win that it prevents D candidate from getting 270 EVs.

    Then it would throw the election into the House of Representatives where they would pick…oh, forget that. House is controlled by Ds.

  186. Cash Cow TM says:


    For Rs the most important day is election day.
    For Ds, it is the day after the election…

  187. Cash Cow TM says:

    If you rearrange the letters in “Harris” ou get awful close to spell “sharia”.

    Just saying….

  188. jason says:

    Suburban swing-voters may not want “open borders” but they did not like hearing about Executive Orders to take citizenship away from people and whether you believe it is fair or not, they did view Trump’s rhetoric as racist and divisive.

    The recent events in the news, while not the fault of Trump, still scared people, involving the MAGA bomber, and the Pittsburgh terrorist who while apparently not a fan of Trump personally, was using Trump talking points about the caravan as his rationale to kill Jews.”

    Trump never proposed taking anyone’s citizenship away, he was talking about children not yet born (not that I agree with that either).

    And if anyone voted against Trump because they thought he was in any way responsible for the attacks by these crazies they are real idiots.

    And any statement by any Republican is always racist and divisive. THat is an MSM talking point and would be used exactly the same way if Rubio, Jeb, or anyone else was President.

    GWB was a war mongering Nazi baby killer too.

    ep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., … compared then-President George W. Bush and 9/11 to Adolf Hitler and the destruction of the Reichstag, the German parliament building: “9/11 is the juggernaut in American history and it allows … it’s almost like, you know, the Reichstag fire,” Ellison said. “After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it, and it put the leader of that country (Hitler) in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted.”

    Comparing Republicans to Nazis has long been a national pastime of the Democratic Party.

    About Ronald Reagan, Steven F. Hayward, author of “The Age Of Reagan” wrote: “Liberals hated Reagan in the 1980s. Pure and simple. They used language that would make the most fervid anti-Obama rhetoric of the Tea Party seem like, well, a tea party. Democratic Rep. William Clay of Missouri charged that Reagan was ‘trying to replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf.'”

    After Republicans took control of the House in the mid-’90s, Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., compared the newly conservative-controlled House to “the Duma and the Reichstag,” referring to the legislature set up by Czar Nicholas II of Russia and the parliament of the German Weimar Republic that brought Hitler to power.

    About President George W. Bush, billionaire Democratic contributor George Soros said, “(He displays the) supremacist ideology of Nazi Germany,” and that his administration used rhetoric that echoes his childhood in occupied Hungary. “When I hear Bush say, ‘You’re either with us or against us,'” Soros said, “it reminds me of the Germans.” He also said: “The (George W.) Bush administration and the Nazi and communist regimes all engaged in the politics of fear. … Indeed, the Bush administration has been able to improve on the techniques used by the Nazi and communist propaganda machines.”

    Former Vice President Al Gore said: “(George W. Bush’s) executive branch has made it a practice to try and control and intimidate news organizations, from PBS to CBS to Newsweek. … And every day, they unleash squadrons of digital brown shirts to harass and hector any journalist who is critical of the President.”

  189. marc says:

    lisab says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:41 pm
    speaking of ginsberg

    that may be why suddenly all these votes are being found in florida and arizona

    i imagine the dems are filling out ballots as quickly as possible

    AZ just has a lot of votes to still count which is strange 2 days after the election. Florida Mr Magoo aka Nelson thinks he can steal the election by crooking corrupt Broward County.

  190. CG says:

    People voted for Democrats on health care because they moved to the left on the issue. People wanted government assurance on health care.

    Should Republicans have taken that position? I don’t think that is the suggestion.

    The idea that people voted for bigger government healthcare because Republicans did not do away with bigger government healthcare is convoluted.

    Republicans were certainly put in a bind on the issue when Trump was calling their efforts “mean” and the Freedom Caucus was unwilling to compromise.

    A different, more effective, more popular President, could have made deals and gotten Obamacare repealed and replaced, with pre-existing conditions covered, and been able to do it with at least a few Democrat votes.

    Back later.. maybe.

  191. lisab says:

    For Rs the most important day is election day.
    For Ds, it is the day after the election…

    well, that is the only way you know how many votes you need to create 🙂

    on a serious not, i don’t get florida and arizona. at least until recently, massachusetts elections were pretty free from corruption.

    i don’t know about now, but in the old days in massachusetts you could go watch the voting machines being opened and see the votes. there was no hanky panky. the votes never were out of sight of either party

  192. CG says:

    195. “Idiots” vote then and they count as much as you. You can either accept it or bury your head in the sand.

  193. Mr.Vito says:

    article: 10/16/2018

    Mitch McConnell Calls for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid Cuts After Passing Tax Cuts, Massive Defense Spending

  194. Bitterlaw says:

    Christie would be great pick for AG. Kelly Ayotte would also be excellent but Trump knows she would tell him to F off when necessary

  195. lisab says:

    A different, more effective, more popular President, could have made deals and gotten Obamacare repealed and replaced, with pre-existing conditions covered, and been able to do it with at least a few Democrat votes.

    too bad that person did not run in 2016

  196. jason says:

    In the meantime, states that Republicans have won recently at the Presidential level such as VA, CO, and NM, and perhaps NH are far gone.”

    They were gone for Romney too.

    That is why you need WI, PA, MI, OH, IA….

  197. CG says:

    The left has certainly unfairly compared past Republicans to Nazis.

    None of them were ever saying that there were “good people on both sides” of a neo-Nazi demonstration though, in which the neo-Nazis were literally saying they were marching in his name, and none of them were ever re-Tweeting avowed white supremacists before either.

    Trump may not like Nazis but some of them sure appear to like him. That wouldn’t have been said about past Republican Presidents. I am glad Trump disavowed anti-Semitism in strong terms last month. It shows that Steve Bannon is gone from the Administration. We can all remember that early on, the President issued a statement on Holocaust Remembrance Day that did not even mention Jews or anti-Semitism. Trump is the one that hired Bannon to begin with. Again, it’s good he is gone. His allies should be sent packing as well.

    Trump is almost certainly not a Nazi-sympathizer but he should really be a lot more careful. He will continue to shrug it off though and so will his defenders.

  198. Bitterlaw says:

    Health care may also have been a bigger issue because many companies have open enrollment to select next year’s coverage in October and November. It might have caused some voters to fixate more on that issue.

  199. jaichind says:

    On suburbs. I found data going back to 1982

    So the GOP-DEM margin for suburb House vote since 1982 are

    1982 -4
    1984 4
    1986 2
    1988 2
    1990 -6
    1992 -2
    1994 14
    1996 4
    1998 4
    2000 2
    2002 18
    2004 4
    2006 -2
    2008 -4
    2010 13
    2012 4
    2014 12
    2016 8
    2018 0

    Now, if we look at the GOP-DEM House margin overall we have

    1982 -12
    1984 -5
    1986 -10
    1988 -8
    1990 -8
    1992 -5
    1994 7
    1996 0
    1998 1
    2000 1
    2002 5
    2004 3
    2006 -9
    2008 -11
    2010 7
    2012 -1
    2014 6
    2016 1
    2018 -7 (best guess so far)

    So a “PVI” of suburbs from the GOP point of view would be

    1982 8
    1984 9
    1986 12
    1988 10
    1990 2
    1992 3
    1994 7
    1996 4
    1998 3
    2000 1
    2002 13
    2004 1
    2006 7
    2008 7
    2010 6
    2012 5
    2014 6
    2016 7
    2018 7

    So 2018 is pretty consistent with data since 2006. Historically it seems Reagan passing on and Clinton showing led to Suburbs to drift away from GOP.

    Anyway it seems the swing away from GOP in 2018 in Suburbs is pretty consistent with the overall swing. So the GOP does not have a Suburb problem in 2018. It has a problem where Dem turnout was massive and only party offset by high GOP turnout and Indies voting for the opposition party just like all first term midterm elections. GOP lost seats in Suburbs is because that is where most marginal seats are. A similar swing in GOP or Dem strongholds does not make a difference in the winner.

  200. Mr.Vito says:

    “Health care may also have been a bigger issue because many companies have open enrollment to select next year’s coverage in October and November. It might have caused some voters to fixate more on that issue.”

    Bingo, Mr.B….

  201. CG says:

    Had Romney gotten to run against Hillary Clinton instead of the incumbent Obama, he would have won those states mentioned and probably at least one of PA, WI, and MI too. Maybe all three.

    Going to lunch

  202. Mr.Vito says:

    “Anyway it seems the swing away from GOP in 2018 in Suburbs is pretty consistent with the overall swing. So the GOP does not have a Suburb problem in 2018.”

    Awesome job on the data, jaichind.

  203. jason says:

    If it’s Trump or bust, it will have to be done again with a divided party, and a whole lot of luck.”

    It’s really crazy to think the party won’t be divided if you try to dump Trump.

    I would rather take my chances with him.

    At some point people have to decide what system to live under.

    Democrats are offering full fledged socialism. Maybe that is what people want, younger people want.

    I don’t think the GOP does a good job of selling capitalism.

    The MSM is 99% socialist.

    If the GOP has no future, that is the problem, it’s not Trump.

  204. Mr.Vito says:

    Those will be my final thoughts for a while on here.

    Good luck!

  205. jason says:

    Yep, that just killed the Amoral Scumbag, Corey and MSM talking point didn’t it.

    Facts over hype.

  206. jason says:

    Trump is almost certainly not a Nazi-sympathizer but he should really be a lot more careful.”


    I think Corey is “almost certainly” not a serial killer but he should really be a lot more careful.

  207. lisab says:

    if you look only at midterms

    gop wh
    1982 -4
    1986 2
    1990 -6
    dem wh
    1994 14
    1998 4
    gop wh
    2002 18
    2006 -2
    dem wh
    2010 13
    2014 12
    gop wh
    2018 0

    the suburbs have almost always gone against the wh

    the exceptions being
    2002, after 9/11
    1986, gop +2
    2018, even

    the correlation is pretty strong

  208. GF says:

    “…but they did not like hearing about Executive Orders to take citizenship away from people…”

    This is demonstrably false; the proposed EO would not have retroactively taken ANYONE’s citizenship away. It merely would have prevented people who have no business being granted citizenship from getting it.

    Personally, though I don’t support the EO idea because it would be temporary even if it could be construed as legal, I actually WANT him to do it because someone will inevitably sue, forcing this issue into the courts (and hopefully all the way up to SCOTUS) because we need a clarification with regards to specific questions on the issue of immigration and citizenship (birth tourism, illegals, etc.). Wong does not directly answer these questions, and Elk v. Wilkins was never overturned (the latter actually addresses the issue of allegiance vis-à-vis jurisdiction). Until SCOTUS provides insight, we are left with a system ripe for abuse.

  209. lisab says:

    shooter was war vet

  210. jason says:

    Had Romney gotten to run against Hillary Clinton instead of the incumbent Obama, he would have won those states mentioned and probably at least one of PA, WI, and MI too. Maybe all three.”

    Zzzz… I don’t think he would have won any of them.

    Hillary was actually a better candidate for the Dems than Obama, which is why I wanted Obama to win the primaries in 2008.

  211. jason says:

    his is demonstrably false; the proposed EO would not have retroactively taken ANYONE’s citizenship away.”

    I am sure Corey actually knows that, but he is addicted to MSM garbage like Amoral Scumbag is.

    They just can’t resist the left wing talking points.

    Not that I approve of the EO, it’s clearly unconstitutional.

  212. RB says:

    I liked Mit…but he does not win PA, WI or MI and OH is a lot closer…he had no appeal to blue collar union workers

  213. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:29 pm
    Sorry. But it’s demographics. Every Republican judge in Harris County got wiped out Tuesday. None of them was named Cruz. The Republican County Judge was defeated by a 27 year old naturalized Citizen from Columbia who has never held a full time job. The county judge heads the commissioner’s court and runs the county. The former county judge was well respected. It did not matt

    – It was a terrible year for Republicans all across the country. To pin it all on demographics is wrong.

  214. Robbie says:

    jason says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:37 pm
    The best bet for Republicans to win a traditional two-party election in 2020 is to have Trump be gone and to defeat a liberal Democrat opponent with a lot more moderate and Independent voters, including many who went for Hillary in 2016, simply because they could not abide Trump.”
    That is complete hogwash. There is no such person to start with. You need a candidate.
    The only person that can put together the kind of winning coalition that could win 2020 is Trump.

    – LOL! Watching Jason fraud transform from a Trump hater in the 2016 primary to someone who believes he is the only one who can put together a winning coalition in 2020 is hilarious.

  215. CG says:

    The new talking point has gone out to blame Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan for the losses. They were “mean” on healthcare.

    Trump can simply do no wrong in the eyes of some.

  216. CG says:

    People are getting hung up on the semantics of the birthright citizenship thing.

    It would have taken citizenship away from humans who have always had it granted.

    It was nothing but an election-eve Hail Mary canard. Trump walked away from it at his press conference yesterday.

    It backfired on his party. People did not like it.

  217. Robbie says:

    Mr.Vito says:
    November 8, 2018 at 12:57 pm
    “Anyway it seems the swing away from GOP in 2018 in Suburbs is pretty consistent with the overall swing. So the GOP does not have a Suburb problem in 2018.”
    Awesome job on the data, jaichind.

    – The whistling past the graveyard continues.

    I suspect some Democrats probably tried to make a similar case about the rural vote after 2010, but they were lying to themselves and knew it.

  218. CG says:

    -jason suggesting that he believes Obama 2012 was a weaker candidate than Hillary 2016 is one of the dumbest things to ever be said on HHR.

  219. Robbie says:

    jason says:
    November 8, 2018 at 1:00 pm
    Yep, that just killed the Amoral Scumbag, Corey and MSM talking point didn’t it.
    Facts over hype.

    – Jason fraud becoming the king Trumper of HHR is not something I ever would have bet on, but here we are.

    This tripe he’s barfing up reminds me of him attacking me just days and weeks ago for suggesting Democrats were in great position to win up to 40 House seats. Well right now, Democrats have won or are leading in 38 House seats held by Republicans.

  220. CG says:

    -jason insisted the day before the election that Republican House losses would be limited to 20, that every close race would break the Republicans way because polls were MSM biased, and that the GOP Gubernatorial candidate who talked about stomping on his opponent’s face with golf spikes would only lose by 10 points.

    Now, he wants us to believe it’s “Trump or Bust.”

    Well, most likely it will be both.

  221. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Scott lead is now 17,344 after Broward apparently counted all of their election day votes. Broward still has Early Voting and Mail votes to count apparently. Looks like the difference between reported and counted is ~30,000 so if we give those votes to Nelson by the margin he is currently winning in Broward he gains roughly 11,000 votes. So it looks mighty close, but other votes from around the state will likely still help Scott.

  222. GF says:

    “It would have taken citizenship away from humans who have always had it granted.”

    No, it would not have. A POTUS cannot revoke citizenship once granted by himself. Indeed, revoking citizenship is a convoluted process that is rarely executed (and for good reason).

    His silly EO, much less any law going forward, would simply prevent those who do not deserve our citizenship from getting it. Period. Like I said, I would never want something like this accomplished via EO, but if that is what it takes to get this issue into the courts, so be it. As the son of a Hispanic immigrant who waited patiently to come to this country, went about it the right way, and then went on to serve her adopted nation in uniform for 14 years, I am tired of all these entitled a-holes who think they should get to do the same without bothering to honor our laws and our process. But what irks me even more are the sycophant white people who think it’s perfectly fine to throw out American citizenship like it’s G_d damned Halloween candy.

    Make them earn it!

  223. Robbie says:

    jason says:
    November 8, 2018 at 1:11 pm
    Had Romney gotten to run against Hillary Clinton instead of the incumbent Obama, he would have won those states mentioned and probably at least one of PA, WI, and MI too. Maybe all three.”
    Zzzz… I don’t think he would have won any of them.
    Hillary was actually a better candidate for the Dems than Obama, which is why I wanted Obama to win the primaries in 2008.

    – This is simply hilarious. Jason fraud is offering us the Mel Brooks version of 2016.

    Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate who had 25 years of negatives stories and feeling attached to her. That’s why she had such low favorability ratings.

    Had Mitt Romney run against her, he would have beaten her handily. Romney was far more popular overall than her and he was far more popular than her among Independents. Don’t forget that Romney won Independents in his race with Obama. Also, Hillary would have had the same problems turning out black and Hispanic voters.

  224. CG says:

    Your hung up on the semantics GF. It would have taken it away from “future humans”, although that distinction might not have been clear to people. Whether you agree with what someone thinks on an issue or not, that is how it was perceived.

    Trump should have been talking about the economy a lot more than “birthright citizenship” or the “invading caravan.”

    Or he should have kept a low profile altogether. The same Senate races that went Republican would still have gone Republican (I would have been willing to give him credit if Tester lost a close one),and the House losses would have been smaller.

    It was determined long ago in the White House that they were going to lose the House, so they figured that as long as they were going to lose it, it didn’t matter how many seats were lost.

  225. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    The FL election is now being stolen IMHO!!!

  226. CG says:

    Where’s Katherine Harris when we need her?

    She was so hot back in the day..

  227. Bio mom says:


    Thank you for the informative post instead of all the juvenile squabbling we have been seeing here this afternoon. Yes, I know, I do not need to read it. Just saying.

  228. ReadyFirst says:

    Marco Rubio:
    “#Florida law requires counties report early voting & vote-by-mail within 30 minutes after polls close. 43 hours after polls closed 2 Democrat strongholds #BrowardCounty & #PalmBeachCounty are still counting & refusing to disclose how many ballots they have left to count. #Sayfie”

  229. CG says:

    Considering Wisconsin Governor turned out as close as it did, it seems like Trump’s tariffs and threats against home-state Harley Davidson made the difference in Walker losing.

    Now, the labor unions will run roughshod in the state once again.

  230. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    And they continue to count in Broward without disclosing how many more ballots need to be counted in Broward.

  231. CG says:

    Has Bill Nelson been in front of a tv camera since the polls closed? I haven’t seen anything.

    Frankly, I was somewhat surprised that Gillum conceded when he did. Considering the setting where he held his watch party, he very much expected to win.

  232. CG says:

    If they recount Broward, they will probably happen to come across enough votes for Al Gore as well to have won, just for the heck of it.

  233. Robbie says:

    A reminder to the “but muh historical average” crowd. The House losses Republicans suffered on Tuesday were the biggest one-election loss they had since 1974 (Watergate) and it happened with very favorable district lines drawn in 2011.

    But sure. Trump, who lead the party to a massive House defeat, is the only guy who can put together a winning coalition in 2020.

  234. Phil says:

    Well, at least Rubio understands what is going on.

    Silence from the Scott campaign.


  235. CG says:

    240.. “but the Senate.. but the Senate…”

    Yes, the Senate results show that Trump cannot be counted out in North Dakota, Indiana, and Missouri. He will be favored to carry those states over a Democrat in 2020. Is that going to get “us” close to 270?

    If he were such a political powerhouse, his party would have found a way to win WV and MT as well, at the minimum, putting aside the other competitive red state Senate losses in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin (with AZ and FL not even sure things yet)

  236. Todd McCain says:

    I believe Scott will end up the winner, but this is getting ridiculous. How are there so many votes still uncounted?

  237. Waingro says:

    Tim Canova
    ?Verified account @Tim_Canova

    Caught On Video: Concerned citizen sees ballots being transported in private vehicles & transferred to rented truck on Election night. This violates all chain of custody requirements for paper ballots. Were the ballots destroyed & replaced by set of fake ballots? Investigate now!

  238. NYCmike says:

    -“CG” could speak about this, but he prefers to speak about “mean” comments by President Trump instead.

    He will also ignore the fact that in early 2017, a supposedly conservative Republican House, along with a supposedly conservative Republican Senate, could have sent him a brand new healthcare bill which would have repealed and replaced Obamacare, since they had 7 years to prepare for that moment…….BUT, they got scared of some “mean” words…….

  239. CG says:

    Tim Canova is the wacky left-winger who ran against Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

  240. Phil says:

    Why do you believe Scott will be the winner? You are basing that on exactly what exactly?

  241. CG says:

    I am glad Trump honored the victims of communism.

    Maybe he can take it a step further and stop kissing Kim Jong Un’s ass because the murderous communist dictator wrote him a nice letter.

  242. gameboy says:

    I thought Scott’s margin on election day was outside the “margin of fraud”. Clearly there are ballots being manufactured as I write this. Enough votes will be manufactured to get the tally to trigger a hand recount. During the hand recount enough votes will be found to get Nelson over the top. Doesn’t appear anyone is willing to do anything about it.

    You have to give the Dems credit. They are dirty, crooked, and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

  243. NYCmike says:

    “Maybe he can take it a step further and stop kissing Kim Jong Un’s ass because the murderous communist dictator wrote him a nice letter.”

    -Maybe he just should have promised to bomb him in October 2016, then he could have gotten “CG”‘s vote.

  244. Todd McCain says:

    247. Because I am positive and he is ahead 17K votes.

  245. Todd McCain says:

    249. This is where lawyers need to get involved to stop this nonsense.

  246. CG says:

    So, NYC, no middle ground at all between bombing and complete capitulation?

    Now, you really sound like a left-winger.

  247. Dylan says:

    Why is there total silence from Scott’s Campaign? Or Desantis for that matter? It’s all very strange.

  248. CG says:

    How many votes can a hand recount really change? A few hundred maybe but…

    Next, they will go the route of saying the ballot was confusing and people skipped over the Senate section in Broward or that somehow those votes were not scanned and there needs to be a “do-over.”

  249. Phil says:

    Because he is ahead by 17,000 votes? Guess what. He was ahead by 33K votes 24 hours ago and they are still counting. That’s not even counting what is going on in Palm Beach – who is also counting.

  250. Phil says:

    Scott is making a big mistake with his silence. It won’t do any good to scream bloody murder AFTER the votes have been generated. He needs to say something now.

  251. Todd McCain says:

    257. Agreed; they need to lawyer up. Get Ginsburg the GOP election attorney down there.

  252. CG says:

    The same Ginsburg who maneuvered to deny Trump the nomination at the convention?

    Will the leader of the party stand for that?

  253. marc says:

    You guys are funny, freaking out when we Florida Republicans aren’t. Calm down things are well in hand. The Democrats aren’t going to steal this Senate seat. We have written to election rules over the last 20 years to make sure another debacle like 2000 won’t happen.

  254. Phil says:

    And votes coming in for Scott from the rest of the state? I haven’t seen one article, news story, or any public comment from any other county election supervisor that there are any other votes being counted – anywhere. Tells me the other counties abided by the law and they are done.

    Unbelievable what is happening here.

    Al Franken’s people were pikers compared to what is going on here.

  255. Todd McCain says:

    I did read though that Bay county is also still “counting”. This will help Scott.

  256. Diamond Jim says:

    257. Agreed; they need to lawyer up. Get Ginsburg the GOP election attorney down there.

    They should have been lawyered up.

  257. Phil says:

    marc, are you saying Rubio is not a Florida Republican?

  258. Hugh says:

    I’m a Florida resident and I am freaking out

  259. Robbie says:

    I have no idea about the outcomes of AZ and FL, but I sure have an unsettling feeling about both. There’s a big difference between 52 seats and 54 seats.

  260. NYCmike says:


    Are you claiming that Trump kissing his arse means that our military, along with Secretary Mattis, have “completely capitulated” to do whatever North Korea’s leader wants them to?

    Ok, whatever you say.

  261. CG says:

    No, I am claiming that Trump is embarrassing the country by kissing Kim’ ass.

    And that entire summit, at least for now, appears to be a sham. Trump got taken for a ride.

  262. NYCmike says:

    I am not freaking out because it won’t help.

    I am confident that Scott, DeSantis, and McSally will do whatever is necessary to ensure transparency and a fair process.

    If that is naive, so be it.

    If the election can be stolen, the problems coming afterward will be much more serious.

  263. Waingro says:

    “2018 midterms expose Wisconsin’s shifting political fault lines”

    Good piece on Wisconsin and GOP weakening in wealthier, suburban strongholds:

  264. CG says:

    If ridiculous flattery and coy homoerotic assertions were part of Obama’s “strategy” of dealing with foreign despots, you would have been complaining too.

  265. NYCmike says:

    “And that entire summit, at least for now, appears to be a sham. Trump got taken for a ride.”

    -What do you mean, there hasn’t been as much progress under Trump as there was under every other President since 1953?


    AND, those last 60+ years of Presidential attempts were surely not nearly as embarrassing as the past 2 years!!

  266. gameboy says:


    That’s a stupid question. They will find as many as they need.

    It’s called fraud.

  267. NYCmike says:

    I criticized Obama’s foreign policy because he was an advocate for Iran, he was anti-Israel, he was anti-American in his apology tours. He blamed us for many of the world’s problems.

    I did not care one iota about his tone, or how he expressed his feelings.

  268. CG says:

    Let’s hope and assume there are safeguards against fraud and that the votes will be counted as the voters intended.

    Election interference from any source should be guarded against, including the Russians.

  269. DW says:

    273 – The left views this as a threat to abortion, so they will literally give their lives or risk spending life in prison to save it. Given it’s Broward county, there is very little risk.

  270. CG says:

    Ok, and if he talked about other hostile foreign leaders the way that Trump has started to talk about Kim, you would have criticized him for that as well.

    Everyone would have.

  271. Waingro says:

    “Mitch McConnell Calls for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid Cuts After Passing Tax Cuts, Massive Defense Spending”

    Cocnaine Mitch would have been wiser to keep silent about this topic, but let’s be clear: he never said anything about “cuts” to entitlement programs. He talked about reform, which is obviously desperately needed before we go bankrupt.

    Of course the Dems and their surrogates in the media distorted and demagogued like they always do and framed it as “cuts” to scare the living hell out of people. And it was obviously effective like it always is!

    But let’s not begin to accept the underlying lying premise.

  272. jaichind says:

    Sigh. Now FL Senate race lead down to 17K. Still no straight story exactly on how many votes are outstanding. I do think Bay County has a bunch of votes which could add to Scott’s lead

  273. Wes says:

    Nelson’s lawyer says, “We’re doing it to win.”

  274. NYCmike says:


    You keep putting a lot of weight into words, when the actions taken by our military, or our ambassadors, are saying something different.

    I put more weight on actions.

    When Obama’s UN ambassador didn’t veto that one resolution, would it have mattered what was said prior to that action, or after?

  275. CG says:

    Dems are only 4,000 behind in the Agriculture Commissioner race…

    It’s been a long time since a Democrat won a Cabinet office there, and it’s sort of ironic that their best race would be the one that deals with rural issues..

    They are obviously going to claim that Broward County had some sort of machine glitch causing a ton of under-votes in the Senate race.

    Republicans should insist on a statewide hand-recount, if it comes to that.


  276. CG says:

    NYC, you will excuse Trump for absolutely anything, but I want him to have better words, especially since he claims he has the “best words.”

    And if you are applauding him taking some sort of moral stand against communism, I hope he means it and sticks with it. During the campaign and otherwise, he said that “America First” means that we do not try to tell other countries how they should conduct their affairs. He also said that like dictatorships, “America has done a lot of killing.”

    Had Obama said that….

  277. CG says:

    On the topic of the next UN Ambassador, I haven’t seen anything is official but apparently Heather Nauert, formerly of Fox News, is close to being named?

    That would not be right. Nothing against her. She seems very competent as the State Department Spokesperson but there is a big leap between that and being a UN Ambassador and Cabinet official.

    There is nobody with longer qualifications for that post?

  278. NYCmike says:

    Excusing him? For what? For blowing smoke up some dictators arse? Who the F*ck cares what is said, except you?

    I am comparing this to 60+ years of a different method of dealing with North Korea, WHICH DID NOT WORK to solve the issue.

    Trump is trying a different method, with the underlying position that Kim’s nukes are unacceptable, and with the military command firmly behind the elected President, just like past Presidents.

  279. DW says:

    I don’t see how Scott or DeSantis for that matter are going to pull this out. Once they get their foot in the recount door, its all over.

  280. ReadyFirst says:

    Bay county still counting.

    Also, no link, but TAMPA Bay Times exit polling says Black vote for desantis was 15%. Black turnout in Dade and Broward was at or below their share of electorate in those counties.

    SOE Snipes in Broward was found guilty by courts in the past for breaking this law about reporting absentees. Cant imagine it would go well for her again if it comes to that.

  281. Phil says:

    The first thing a trailing candidate needs to do in order to win a recount is to get the margin down to a small enough margin to actually win the recount. Democrats seem to be well on the way to doing that.

    33000 was way too big. Seems they are eliminating that problem in relative short order.

  282. Wes says:

    DW, Florida is not California. The FLSOS is a Republican appointed by Rick Scott. I can’t imagine he’d stand idly by and let Nelson steal this race.

  283. Todd McCain says:

    Bush was able to survive the recount door…..

  284. Marv says:

    #290 Wes,

    True. There are also Scott counties that have ballots to count.

  285. DW says:

    290 – I would like to think so, but the local officials don’t seem to be cooperating if I read the story right.

  286. NYCmike says:

    “Bush was able to survive the recount door…..”

    -With a lot fewer votes separating…..

  287. NYCmike says:

    BUT, the whole country was watching, which is NOT the case this time around…….similar to Franken in Minnesota.

  288. Wes says:

    Then the SOS should say no more votes will be allowed until the counties says exactly how many ballots they have left to count.

  289. DW says:

    Some of these states need to be fixed. Look at ME_02, as of today, two days after election day, they are now up to 48% reported. Isn’t this the information age? Are the returns being chiseled onto stone tablets to be delivered by ox-drawn cart?

  290. Phil says:

    Wes Nothing the SOS can do if the Democratic hacks “find” the votes in Broward and Palm by Saturday noon. He has statewide supervision but the counties conduct the election and it’s the counties that count and turn in the vote totals by noon Saturday. The theft is going on within the counties as we speak. It’s not the statewide recount itself that is the problem.

  291. Wes says:

    Rick Scott is the sitting Governor of Florida with a GOP SOS. I would imagine Scott isn’t going to let Nelson rob him. The Senate is also GOP. McConnell can refuse to seat Nelson.

  292. Wes says:

    Actually, Phil, Florida Law says the counties must announce vote totals for absentee and provisional ballots within 30 minutes of poll closing. They can’t just create votes in the days following the election.

  293. Phil says:

    Wes, I agree. The law is clear. However, according to Rubio’s tweet that’s not what Snipe’s is doing in Broward if I understand the way the tweet is worded. Apparently Palm Beach is pulling the same thing.

  294. dblaikie says:

    Need some calm here. Scot is not going to let this get out of hand. Believe me, all the lawyers are on their way. The State Gov. is GOP. And lets not forget that the military vote needs to be counted. Gone are the days where those are rejected en mass. Florida is big with the military with thousands of votes. Hand recounts are not like what they were.

    What needs to happen is that if this continues beyond 5 pm today when the votes are supposed to be turned into the Sec. of State’s office for certification, then the vote needs to be stopped by the Sec. of State in Broward and Palm Beach.

  295. Robbie says:

    GWB won a recount where he started 1734 votes ahead. Is any suggesting Scott’s lead after the initial vote count is done will be below 10,000?

    Even if it’s 5,000 before the recount, that’s a huge margin to overcome.

  296. Dylan says:

    303–I think we would all be more comfortable if Scott campaign was more vocal about what they are doing to protect the lead. This definitely smells like a variation on Franken in 2008 and Pawlenty was a silent milquetoast who allowed fraud to cost a 6 year senate seat.

    It’s utterly amazing to me that this type of inability to certify the vote within 48 hours of an election is on a Groundhog day loop every season somewhere

  297. CG says:

    Does FL SOS (no longer an elected post) still have jurisdiction over elections?

  298. Robbie says:

    John Yoo, former Clarence Thomas clerk and author of the “torture” memos, says Matt Whitaker’s appointment as acting AG is unconstitutional. Cites a case where Thomas said the same thing last year.

  299. CG says:

    Maine has “ranked choice voting” which no other state has and none has ever had before this year.

    So, it’s going to take a while. If there are four candidates on the ballot, they have to count them up to four times until someone gets a majority. That is probably what is going to make it very hard for Poliquin to win.

  300. CG says:

    So, what is the appropriate response to the claim of…

    “there was an unexplainable undervote in the Senate race in Broward County compared to other races, including those for lower offices. This could have been an issue of the machine not capturing these votes.”

    How do Republicans provide the proof that such a claim is made up?

  301. CG says:

    It has to at least be considered that Broward County effed up in calibrating their machines and missed votes.

    If it didn’t happen, which for the sake of democracy we should hope it did not, that should be something that can be proven that the machines worked.

    But if something did happen, then that might be bad news for Scott.

  302. CG says:

    uh oh… Ken Dentzer, the current Florida Secretary of State was previously appointed to and held that position starting in 2003 by….

  303. ReadyFirst says:

    Easy to explain CG. See my post 288. Blacks according to exits voted for Desantis because of his position on Charter schools.

  304. dblaikie says:

    Some thoughts on the Arizona race. Prima county says that it has 80000 ballots left to be counted. Maricopa has 472000 ballots left. Sinema if trends continue Sinema will cut into the lead an additional 13232 votes. However there are several counties left that are strong for McSally that have 134000 ballots left to count. That should add 10000 to 14000 to McSally. In short if percentages stay the same McSally wins.

  305. Marv says:


    It’s pretty clear that Nelson is trying to steal this election in collusion with the Palm Beach and Broward Country election supervisors.

    If the GOP let’s them get away with it, then we probably deserve to lose.

    The more likelihood is that both DeSantis and Scott prevail. Not sure about the Ag Commissioner.

  306. CG says:

    These are my questions–

    Were fewer total votes cast in Broward County for the Senate race as compared to the other statewide races? CFO race? Attorney General? whatever..

    Someone can probably pull up the numbers if they wished.

    If so, did other counties see the same thing happening with less people choosing to vote for Senate?

  307. CG says:

    And this is irrelevant to the main issue, but I would find it hard to believe that DeSantis did better among African-American voters than Scott did this year.

    Is there a link to an exit poll showing DeSantis got 15% of the black vote?

  308. CG says:

    Ok, I do find it surprising.

    CBS exit poll says DeSantis got 14% of the black vote statewide and Scott got 10%.

  309. marc says:

    It most likely has to do with Broward a county ballot set up, which was an wordy and ungodly 8 pages. The Senate race was placed in a in unspecific un-prominent area above several unopposed Congressional district races. The main area exhibited the governors race.

  310. marc says:

    If you google the ballot you can see how elderly, young and uneducated voters especially African Americans just interested in The Governors race could miss that part completely

  311. CG says:

    If they set up their ballot weirdly and didn’t bother to properly explain it to voters, that’s on them… (the Democrats who run the County.)

    *If* there was legitimately a machine error though, its a very different story.

    I’ve only voted in one state, but all our statewide elections (Gov, AG, SOS, etc) always appear first before any federal election, such as U.S. Senate. So, it sounds like its the same thing.

    (I had to go through close to 20 pages, mostly related to if we wanted to retain what seemed like a few dozen judges or not.)

    Do people in Florida typically vote on touch screen machines or what these days?

    If it’s on a screen, there’s really no excuse for missing a race to vote for.

  312. CG says:

    Were votes cast for Pat Buchanan?

  313. Bio mom says:

    Ironic that the poor hurricane-stricken areas of Florida managed to count their votes in time but not these Dem counties.

  314. Marc says:

    Paper scan ballots.

  315. Marv says:

    319 marc,

    What’s your opinion of how this turns out here in FL?

  316. Mr.Vito says:

    Guess I’ll make one more post…

    supposed to be about 10000 ballots left to count in Broward

    if not they are probably cheating in addition to breaking state law by not having them counted already

  317. Mr.Vito says:

    716K reported

    707K totaled so far

  318. marc says:

    Broward is the Democrat vote sink of the state and it’s govt is run by a mixture of affirmative action party hacks, long serving elected Democrat tools and Caribbean new citizens.

  319. CG says:

    Paper-scan ballots in general are probably not a smart idea, especially in Florida..

  320. Phil says:

    Where do you get the number 10k?

  321. marc says:

    The certification deadline is Saturday at noon, all counties must have there tallies into the SOS office by then or those votes by state will be ignored. The Gov and executive council certified the result at the request of the SOS.

    If an recount is lawfully triggered the counties will await direction from the SOS on a unified method and deadline.

  322. Phil says:

    Never mind. I see.

  323. Phil says:

    What about Palm Beach County? I don’t see it on the chart.

  324. marc says:

    Palm Beach although Democrats is better tan than Broward.

    Susan Bucher, Palm Beach County SOE, said they’ll finish counting tomorrow late afternoon. Left to count: 1,800-2,000 provisional, 1,500 military/overseas and less than 1,000 vote by mail.. these ballot are likely from Israel

  325. Marv says:

    Mr Vito,

    Looks like Broward County has about 9241 more votes to count, based on the math from your links.

  326. CG says:

    Can we find a way to fix it so Mia Love wins in a recount or are the Mormons too moral of a people to do that?

  327. Phil says:


    Thanks for the info on palm Beach

  328. marc says:

    Pam Bondi and the SOS will be in Broward County tomorrow

  329. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    336. “Can we find a way to fix it so Mia Love wins in a recount or are the Mormons too moral of a people to do that?”

    Love may end up winning. She is winning 75% of the Utah County vote, and there are a lot of uncounted votes there yet. In Salt Lake County she is getting 45% of the vote. It is going to be a squeaker.

  330. CG says:

    339. How come CNN says 100% is in?

  331. ReadyFirst says:

    Ok. I’m feeling better. Inside scoop from Tallahassee from my source FWIW. Ag candidate Caldwell was calling for a statewide recount and Scott and Desantis were trying to smack him down. Some of that may be moot now with auto recount. (Although for gov I don’t think it goes to hand recount til within .2%, machine .5%).

    Scott feeling good about recount. Doesn’t believe S Fl has enough to overtake as votes running about 66-34 dem to rep. There apparently are just too many red counties with absentees outstanding for Dems to run away with this election.

    That’s all I gots, but it made me feel better. And no, I won’t give away my source, believe it or not, up to you.

  332. Bio mom says:

    How about Nevada? Can Heller challenge his loss?

  333. CG says:

    What if RF’s FL source is the same as MD’s FL source?

  334. ReadyFirst says:

    Marv. 315. See my post above regarding ag. I think ag is gone.

  335. CG says:

    The Dem is leading for Attorney General in FL?

    Sheesh. How does that happen? I thought FL was ruby-red. Did Pam Bondi not co-host enough shows on Fox News the past few months?

  336. ReadyFirst says:

    CG. Doubtful, but who knows. Glad u found the black exit data.

  337. Robbie says:

    I’d like to read more into this than there really is, but I won’t. It does seem, though, that Romney intends to be a player in national politics which I think is a good thing.

    The one other comment I’d make is the same one I made when Pence set up his own fundraising pac. I think some Republicans are at least preparing to have an operation ready to go if Trump chooses not to run.

    Bill Gray

    SEN.-ELECT MITT ROMNEY (R-UTAH) set up a political action committee, and joint fundraising committee yesterday — signals that Romney is going to employ his fundraising prowess in D.C. The PAC is called “Believe in America PAC.” And the JFC is called “Team Mitt.”

  338. CG says:

    Ok, it’s Ag Commissioner, not AG.

    (I find that weird too. My fellow Jews, who live in Florida, mobilized enough to elect a Dem as the state’s top farmer but not lawyer .., the AG office is one I would have assumed would have a lot of South Fla undervotes..)

  339. CG says:

    It’s a good thing I never took down my Romney “Believe in America” placards inside my home.

  340. CG says:

    Agc office I mean…

    “Sylvia, what’s this office.. what do I know about farming?”

  341. ReadyFirst says:

    Rep. Ag candidate is very far right. Endorsed by the republican liberty caucus. Explains some of his troubles.

    I’m on iPhone. Please Forgive my lousy texts.

  342. CG says:

    I wonder if a Ron Paul type Ag Commissioner candidate even believes in checking the oranges.

  343. CG says:

    Assuming Rick Scott is headed to FL, is he going to resign early before the next inauguration to make Carlos Lopez-Cantera the first Cuban-American (and second Jewish) Governor in Florida history?

  344. CG says:

    *headed to DC

  345. Marv says:

    Based upon the data from the sites linked above,
    Broward has about 9241 left a tally and Palm Beach SOE said there are about 6000 votes to tally.

    Nelson won Broward County 69.1% to 30.9% so he could net 3521 of the 9241 votes remaining.

    Nelson won Palm Beach County 58.4% to 41.6% so he could net 756 of the app. 600 votes remaining.

    Red counties where Scott won have votes remaining to be counted too.

    Statewide recount is almost certain.

    I think both DeSantis and Nelson have enough votes in the bank going into the recount to win narrowly.

    I agree with ReadyFirst that the Ag Commissioner seat is lost….maybe.

  346. ReadyFirst says:

    326. Vito. That’s not enough for them, especially at a 2/3rds capture rate.

  347. ReadyFirst says:! Jinx. You owe me a coke.

  348. Marv says:

    #356 ReadyFirst,

    Yep…that’s what I figured too, see #355.

  349. CG says:

    Is the last name of the likely new FL Ag Com pronounced “fried” as in the food?

    if so, it makes sense why she won.

  350. ReadyFirst says:

    Marv. Unless the absentees are VERY good to Ag. If so he could be ok.

  351. Marv says:


    *6000 Palm Beach votes left, not 600.

  352. CG says:

    She’s a Jewess too..

    Definitely unique.

  353. ReadyFirst says:

    Marv. Did u see my 341?

  354. Marv says:

    #363 ReadyFirst,

    Roger that…I saw your 341.

  355. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Talk about an optimist. Ammar Campa-Najjar, who is trailing Duncan Hunter, Jr., in California’s 50th district by 8.6%, thinks he may make up the difference with absentee ballots and win.

  356. CG says:

    He needs to keep his name out there for the special election.

  357. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    340. “339. How come CNN says 100% is in?”

    Do you actually believe what CNN says is reliable?

  358. ReadyFirst says:

    348. CG. This might help explain some of the S Fl vote for you also. Largest Jewish weekly pub in the country, the Jewish Press.

  359. CG says:

    Did they make an endorsement for Agriculture Commissioner?

  360. ReadyFirst says:

    Not that I saw.

  361. marc says:

    File under the most ridiculous, leftist in NYC,DC and other urban cities are protesting Sessions resignation.

  362. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Here is an update on the vote count in the Mia Love district from the Salt Lake Tribune. CNN needs to call them and state the race is over since 100% of the vote is in.

    “The 4th Congressional District race between Ben McAdams and Mia Love is still too close to call even as McAdams, the Democratic challenger to the Republican congresswoman, widened his lead a bit with votes counted Thursday.

    Updated data shows McAdams now leads the race by 51.77 percent to 48.23 — a 3.54 percent edge, up from 2.9 points. But relatively few votes have been counted yet and made public in Love’s GOP stronghold in Utah County, and no major update there is scheduled until Friday. So the strength of McAdams’ lead remains unknown days after the election.

    Gov. Gary Herbert and Lt. Gov. Spencer Cox both lashed out at Utah County for election mess-ups that are among reasons why the race’s outcome remains in doubt.”

  363. ReadyFirst says:

    And now Nelson’s recount attny. What a twisted web!

    “And Al Franken’s recount lawyer. #Sayfie RT
    : If you’ve forgotten, Marc Elias is the same Perkins Coie lawyer who engaged Fusion GPS using money passed through his firm by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign. Small world!”

  364. BayernFan says:

    What’s going on with Arizona?

  365. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The shooter in the bar in California used a handgun (not an assault rifle). He might have illegally extended its magazine. He was a former Marine who had served in Afghanistan, might have had PTSD and was know to law enforcement.

    People like to pick on California, but in this instance, unlike in Florida or Nevada, law enforcement officers immediately went into the bar to take out the shooter. Tragically, one bravely died. Probably many lives were saved, as the shooter retreated into a room and killed himself.

  366. Justin says:

    Are the Arizona vote counters getting paid by the hour?

  367. marc says:

    Governor Rick Scott to hold 8pm Press Conference in Tallahassee to address voting problems in Broward County.

  368. Bitterlaw says:

    SDV – The carnage continues. It will never stop.

  369. NYCmike says:

    “SDV – The carnage continues. It will never stop.”

    -Looks like Bitterlaw is reading his history books again……

  370. Todd McCain says:

    Simena just took the lead…..

  371. Tina says:

    They can stop counting now in Az.

    It is Ovah.

  372. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    1m1 minute ago

    First #AZSen Maricopa dump puts Sinema into the lead. There are a LOT more ballots to count though folks.

    Pink tutu is up by over 2,000 votes! UGH, what is wrong with majority of Arizona voters?

  373. Justin says:

    Where are you tracking the AZ results?

  374. Robbie says:

    Sinema just took the lead. Ugh.

  375. Tina says:

    Still 350k in maricopa alone.

  376. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Scott’s lead in the Florida Senate race is down to 15,200 votes.

  377. Tina says:

    Go here for Az.

    Numbers at az sos, just updated showing enema up.

  378. Tina says:

    Rs need to go code red in Fl.

    They will steal this one,

  379. BayernFan says:

    How can there be that many votes in Arizona? Indiana is bigger and casts a little over 2 million votes.

  380. Tina says:


  381. MichiganGuy says:

    #Broward election supervisors ongoing violation of #Florida law requiring timely reporting isn’t just annoying incompetence. It has opened the door for lawyers to come here & try to steal a seat in the U.S. Senate & Florida Cabinet


  382. Tina says:

    The Jebots are protesting in front of the Wh.

    They are in support of Fuhrer Mulehead and they are wrapped in Soviet Union flags.

    I think Comedy and Commie Brennan are in attendance.

  383. Waingro says:

    “With tonight’s batch of ballots released, Kyrsten Sinema takes the lead. To note: These ballots are from the early ballots returned ahead of Election Day when the return rate was essentially even between R & D voters. This was expected to boost Sinema. Many more days ahead…”

  384. Robbie says:

    The way we count votes in this country is a disgrace. It’s been 48 hours since the polls closed.

    For the first time, I get the icky feeling both AZ and FL might be in danger of flipping. This sort of reminds me of 2008 when we woke up the next day with Gordon Smith and Norm Coleman both ahead. They both lost as more and more votes were counted.

    The near tie in 2000 resulted in some genuinely awful election laws. Massive early voting and mail-in ballots have made things worse. In 2000, basically every vote was counted within 24 hours of the polls closing. Now, California won’t be finished for weeks.

  385. Scooby77 says:

    The Arizona jump for Sinema was due to the Maricopa dump. Red counties still to come in. Not sure on military absentee votes.

  386. Waingro says:

    Let’s not panic yet, folks.

    “This is part of bucket A released tonight: Early ballots returned Fri-Mon –> Sinema secured 57.4% of these 129,747 ballots. There are still 167,357 ballots like these to be announced. The next bucket is 195,296 ballots that will favor McSally — Earlies delivered day of election”

  387. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    November 8, 2018 at 7:22 pm | In reply to freego
    It came from Broward ( The Broward link says they are now done with mail ballots. I think there is around 4k ballots left (outside of provisionals); supposedly, it’s the early vote they haven’t finished.

  388. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #396- Waingro
    Why would election day drop-off ballots in Maricopa County favor McSally(R) over Pink Tutu and the weekend-before ballots go the opposite way?

  389. ReadyFirst says:

    Marco has been Johnnie on the spot today!

  390. ReadyFIrst says:


  391. Waingro says:

    “MATH @kyrstensinema won 58% of the 130,000 Maricopa ballots dropped today. These ballots were ‘early earlies’ – early ballots that arrived at recorder’s office late last week, when Dem returns were catching up to GOP.”

    “This batch was expected to be good for Sinema. Most of the rest of the remaining 350,000 will be votes dropped off on Election Day and they are expected to be (but not guaranteed to be) better for McSally”

  392. lisab says:

    Judge orders release of Benghazi Docs after State Department officials lied.

  393. NYCmike says:

    -Has anyone else opined on this?

    Is this illegal?

    Between this and the further vote-finding in several states, this country looks really bad.

    A bit frightening. People don’t realize how quickly things can turn to violence.

  394. lisab says:

    69 yo man sues to change his records because he “identifies” as 49. Claims he feels 20 years younger and doctors say he has a body of someone 20 years younger!!

  395. lisab says:

    Chicago-based PS4 gamers, our fair city has forced PlayStation to begin tacking on the “Amusement Tax” starting Nov. 14th

  396. Tina says:

    Conway is an idiot.

    He needs to stick to eating double cheeseburgers.

  397. Tina says:

    And in more lawlessness, 9th circus days trump must keep daca.

    Goes to supreme.

    Daca is illegal, set up by executive order.

    So ok for obumbler to set up, but ok for trump to rescind.

    I get it.

  398. lisab says:

    Ocasio-Cortez: “I will make the Electoral College FREE for all Americans!”

  399. Scooby77 says:

    Pink tutu Sinema is now ahead by 8,800. Crazy.

  400. Todd McCain says:

    12% of Republicans voted for Sinema; like how is that possible?!!

  401. Phil says:

    So the Dems made up 19K votes and they did it without having to count the 80K votes out of Pima County that Sinema carried 55-43?

    I’m speechless.

  402. Dylan says:

    412–Stockholm Syndrome + peer pressure guilt

  403. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    378. “SDV – The carnage continues. It will never stop.”

    Did it ever not exist? Human beings are a violent species; for that matter all of nature consists of violent species.

  404. Dylan says:

    413–and NOT A PEEP from anyone NOTHING.

  405. Phil says:

    Well, at least Scott is finally going to say something about what has been happening in Broward.

    Uh, you might be a little late, Governor. It’s been happening all week.

  406. Tina says:

    I think they counted 25k out of the 80k in Pima.

    The Pima was the last drop.

  407. Scooby77 says:

    Someone with McSally’s campaign said the last counting (to be finished Saturday?) will push McSally back over the top. Bluster, or based on where the outstanding votes are? Not sure.

  408. Phil says:

    So, an 8k lead and they still have another 55k out of Pima to count?

    Terrific. Say hello to Senator Pink Tutu.

  409. Paul says:

    Votes from Sinema stronghold Pina County to come in.
    Predictit now has Sinema at 77%.

  410. Paul says:

    Pina County = Pima County

  411. Tina says:

    Ther are a lot of days left.

    Maricopa just dropped 2 days of work.

    345k remain.

  412. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    405. “ -What could go wrong? /

    Actually makes economic sense. Tech leaves San Francisco and takes high paying jobs away with it. Housing market tanks. Housing more affordable. Homeless find new lower income residents are cheap with their handouts. They leave San Francisco in disgust. Problem solved.

  413. MichiganGuy says:

    #403 What’s Trump’s authority for superseding the AG Succession statute? He’s undoubtedly invoking the Vacancies Reform Act of 1998 (VRA), which provides (5 U.S.C. § 3345(a)(3)) that the President “may direct an officer or employee of [an] Executive agency to perform the functions and duties of [a] vacant office,” provided that the officer or employee has served, for at least 90 days during the year before the vacancy, in a position for which the pay is at least the level of GS-15—a criterion that Matthew Whitaker satisfies.

  414. Scooby77 says:

    There’s more to come from Pima? I thought that was it?

  415. Robbie says:

    Regardless of AZ and FL, the further away we get from election day, the worse the results look. In the Senate, Republican states finally elected Republican Senators, but everywhere else the party got smoked. The Democrats are pushing towards a pickup of 40 House seats.

  416. Scooby77 says:

    Pinal Co (pro-McSally) has around 32,000 votes to provide tomorrow. It was a 56-44 McSally district.

  417. George says:

    Republican Ducey wins Arizona governor race 58% to 40% and the Arizona Senate race is 50-50?

  418. Justin says:

    428 – where are you getting that info? Where are the other votes coming left?

  419. Tina says:

    Maybe the 9th Curcus will determine that act invalid.

    the Jebot losahs are scared of Whitaker.

  420. Phil says:

    I’ve seen all I want to see out of Arizona.

    What did rick Scott have to say tonight about Broward or does the cat still have his tongue? I’d like to at least salvage Florida.

  421. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Toxic masculinity:
    Woman who was celebrating her 21st birthday at Thousand Oaks bar where shooting broke out: “There were multiple men that got on their knees and pretty much blocked all of us…ready to take a bullet for any single one of us.”

  422. Dylan says:

    How is anyone supposed to have any confidence in any election result? I guess this is how the Dems felt in 2000. We are gonna end up plus 1 in the senate over current status.

  423. marc says:

    Gov. Rick Scott announces lawsuit against Broward, Palm Beach supervisors of elections. “Every Floridian should be concerned there may be rampant fraud,” Scott says at press conference.

  424. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    8:31 — “I am proud to be the next Senator for the great state of Florida,” Rick Scott said.

    Scott ends the press conference without taking any questions.

    8:30 — “Some believe this is simply rank incompetence. That is certainly true,” Rick Scott said. But it would be naive to think they are overruling the will of the voters, he adds.

    Scott is asking for law enforcement to investigate immediately and he will use every legal options necessary, he said.

    8:29 — Rick Scott now giving the career of Sen. Bill Nelson’s hired lawyer, Marc Elias, a veteran recount attorney. Scott said he’s trying to “steal the election.” Scott said they’re “mysteriously finding more votes.”

    8:27 — Rick Scott: “We have just filed a lawsuit.”

    “I will not sit idly by while unethical liberals try to steal this election.”

    It sounds like Scott is suing both Palm Beach and Broward counties.

    8:26: Rick Scott: “It has been over 48 hours since the polls closed” and ballots still being found in Broward and Palm Beach Counties. “The people of Florida deserve fairness and transparency.” Florida voters should be concerned about “rampant fraud.”

  425. Phil says:

    Scott’s lead now down to 15,175 votes.

  426. Dylan says:

    Gov scott. That was ANEMIC. What is it that your lawssuit seeks to do?

    And what about DeSantis? They are coming for him too.

  427. marc says:

    Some of y’all chickens need to come down. Florida Senate Seat will not be stolen by the Democrats. We control this state and all its offices, this isn’t California. So stop, and let the Florida party take care of it.

  428. Phil says:

    Yeah, that was pretty anemic. Sounds like he’s got nothing.

  429. Tina says:

    Yeas Scott saw what a 33k lead dwindle to 15k.

    Nobody knows where these votes are from or how many remain?

    An election official,out of control.

    He better sue in federal court too. The local judges in .broward are just as corrupt.

  430. Marv says:


    I agree with you about Florida.

  431. Tina says:

    Mark Levin strongly recommended the Federal court filing.

  432. Bio mom says:


    Could be +0 . The Mississippi special has not been held yet.

  433. George says:

    Laura Ingraham
    Just got a text that Pima County (Tucson) numbers just came in and Sinema is now up by 9,000. Very unlikely McSally wins at this point. The trend will likely continue.

  434. Phil says:

    Yeah, but do you control Broward and Palm Beach. Seems that’s where the votes are coming from….and they just keep coming.

    Answer me this. I don’t remember Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties dropping anything like this number of votes 48 hours after Election Day in 2016. What gives?

    Also, Miami Dade has twice the votes of Broward and they finished Wed morning? So, explain what is happening in Broward?

  435. Tina says:

    In Graham is not so wise. I am not a fan of Ingrahm or coulter.
    Two dummies.

    Maricopa has 345k votes to count.

    Nothing is Ovah.

  436. dblaikie says:

    Folks I know that there is a lot of stuff going on. But please keep your cool. Right now the best thing that Scot can do is shine the light of this nonsense and lawyer up. He still has a large cushion of votes. I am certain that he will have lots of lawyers in the Boward and Palm counting rooms. 15k is still a huge hill to climb for Nelson — especially now that his game has been exposed. And don’t forget the over seas (military vote).

  437. Phil says:

    The game should have been exposed 36 hours ago.

  438. Phil says:

    ….when it was obvious what was happening.

    When will Republicans ever learn?

  439. marc says:

    Ingram just looking for more hits and views. AZ has hundreds of thousands of votes to count. With both sides having strongholds with plenty to count.

  440. Dylan says:

    449. There are two issues—

    1. has Broward and Palm beach counties “manufactured voted via fraud” and

    2. Can scott survive a recount?

    The purpose of the election laws is to allow for prompt posting of tallying so that fraud is not AS likely. But if this 48 hour period has allowed for manufacture of votes——recount is totally moot. I hope the lawsuit can address these dilatory posting of vote tally issues.

  441. marc says:


    Where do you live? I’m guessing a state where the Republican Party sucks and you are using to being a losing doormat election in election out?

  442. RB says:

    Anyone know how much we typically get with military votes in a midterm(though this is more like pres turnout)

  443. Phil says:

    Yeah, I wish Laura would just shut up and let them finish the count. She’s not helping.

  444. Phil says:

    Wrong. I live in Texas. We’ve hardly been a doormat. LOL Nice theory though.

  445. marc says:

    Just announced Broward is done with all counting except military and oversea ballots

  446. Phil says:

    Maybe Scott’s lawsuit convinced them to knock it off in Broward. Hope so.

    The only way Democrats win is to take the lead BEFORE the recount. That’s what Dem officials in Broward were obviously angling for the last couple of days.

    The recount isn’t going to change things a few votes either way. The key is whoever has the lead going into the recount. I’ve never worried about the recount itself.

  447. Robbie says:

    So McSally is now down 9000. Geesh. I know there are several hundred thousand left to count, but can we get some voted counted in areas that favor McSally?

  448. Robbie says:

    marc says:
    November 8, 2018 at 9:06 pm
    Just announced Broward is done with all counting except military and oversea ballots

    – That’s good news. Got a link? If Scott’s up 15,000, it’s hard to see how a recount overcomes that unless there was a calibration error.

  449. Paul says:

    Votes are trickling in for most races between overseas, provisional, and mail-ins. We usually don’t care unless it is a close race.

  450. phoenixrisen says:

    Here’s the bottom line.

    Broward has 100% of precincts reported on election night with 643,546 votes cast. Yesterday that figure had jumped to 716K. With an additional 72K provisional votes in that county alone, Broward is saying that 10% of the votes cast were provisional. That is a load of bull and a huge red flag for fraud. This morning I gave Lee County as a reference. 288K votes were counted election night and the total votes cast increased to 293K. Yeah, it is easy to see this stinks to high heaven. Not only that but Broward and Palm Beach by not being complicit with Florida law are now violating all other Florida counties’ constitutional rights via the Equal Protection Clause. No wonder Pam Bondi is visiting Broward tomorrow with her team.

  451. Tina says:

    How many provisional or extra ballots for president in 2016 ion that county

  452. Phil says:

    Phoenix, it is indeed a load of bull. Dade complied with the law as did all other Florida counties. They were done. It absolutely violates all other Florida Counties via the Equal Protection clause.

    Earlier Marc posted that Palm Beach only has about 4500 votes left to count and that includes all mail in, provisional, and military combined.

    Broward was pulling a fast one and they weren’t even subtle about it.

  453. Tina says:

    S. Department of Justice] Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen today announced an Interim Final Rule declaring that those aliens who contravene a presidential suspension or limitation on entry into the United States through the southern border with Mexico issued under section 212(f) or 215(a)(1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) will be rendered ineligible for asylum.

  454. Marv says:


    Scott and his team responded about 36 hours after they should have, however the Broward and Palm Beach County attempts to steal the election was thwarted with Scott maintaining a 15,000 vote.

    Scott be OK, so will DeSantis.

    The Broward County SOE, Brenda Snipes, is about to be in serious trouble.

  455. Phil says:

    So Republican Lee County provisional ballots were 1.7% of all total votes in that county…and were added. Broward claims their provisional votes added made up around 10% of their total county vote. Yeah, Riiiiight!

    Would be interesting to compare their number of provisional ballots to what larger Miami Dade’s provisional ballot number was. I bet Dade’s wasn’t 10% or even close to it.

  456. Phil says:

    Snipes needs to go to prison.

  457. Tina says:

    Hopefully, Fib swarms her office.

    I think they may have some time to do that, unless they are still tapping trump tower?

  458. phoenixrisen says:

    Tina, 24,460 votes were cast in 2016 for the ENTIRE state of Florida. So, if Broward wants to claim these weren’t provisionals, then when all precincts reported and their final vote tally was 643,546, where did the additional 72K votes come from? There was a LOT of state law violated here regarding reporting of votes to the State. The Broward County supervisor is in a boatload of legal trouble. What was really suspicious is seeing how drastically Scott’s margin was falling. Wouldn’t surprise me if they had people filling in votes that had the selection box left blank.

  459. Tina says:

    Law Enforcement is looking into another big corruption scandal having to do with Election Fraud in #Broward and Palm Beach. Florida voted for Rick Scott!

    6:38 PM – Nov 8, 2018

    Trump just tweeted on the Florida fraud.

  460. Phil says:

    Phoenix, what is the 2016 24460 statewide number you are referring to?

  461. marc says:

    Broward Brendon Snipes was found guilty by a court of illegally destroying ballots. Why she remains in office, is because Broward is a Democrat vote sink with a mixture of the typical democrat constituency with a large Caribbean immigrant bent.

  462. Marv says:

    Apparently, President Trump is in no mood to have one of his(sic) Senate seats stolen.

    Donald J. Trump??Verified account? @realDonaldTrump

    Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump

    Law Enforcement is looking into another big corruption scandal having to do with Election Fraud in #Broward and Palm Beach. Florida voted for Rick Scott!

  463. phoenixrisen says:

    Phil, that was the total number of provisional ballots cast in the state of Florida

  464. Tina says:

    I find that Snipes is an honorable person. There is no voter fraud. This is just right wing noise from outside Pizza Port.


  465. MichiganGuy says:

    #466 Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker has done more good in 1 day than Sessions did in 1 1/2 years.

  466. Tina says:

    So, 70k out of that county is bs. Thanks, pr.

    They manufactured votes.

  467. John says:

    Az Senate race update…
    Sinema up by close to 10,000 votes.

  468. Phil says:

    phoenix, Holy crap – 24K provisional ballots for the entire state in 2016 when the total number of votes was significantly larger for a presidential election than this years’ midterm? And Broward is claiming 72K in just Broward alone this time? It is UNBELIEVABLE that Snipes and her crew actually attempted such a fraud when it would be so obvious.

    Lock her up.

  469. dblaikie says:

    Scot was just on Hannity. You could tell that he was angry! The whole Scot political machine, from the AG on down are about to descend into Snipes office.

    What I can’t believe is the complete audacity of simply coming up with 72000 votes. Someone needs to go to jail.

  470. Tina says:

    They should do a no knock warrant on her arse.

    Catch her in her dirty pjs.

  471. dblaikie says:

    I am afraid that this Arizona vote is going to have lots of twists and turns. There is huge amount of ballots in Maracopa that were election day ballots and pro McSally. And this count is not just in Phoenix and Tuscan, it is state wide. And after it is over this race may require a mandatory recount. In other words it could very well be weeks before we know who won.

  472. Robbie says:

    Has Broward finished voting or are they going to count another 72,000?

  473. phoenixrisen says:

    Phil, I don’t believe Broward has stated they are provisionals but there is only three things it could be:

    1) Fraudulent provisionals which Florida has an extensive process put in place by law that a provisional voter has to go through.

    2) Having a bunch of well hidden people fill in the Senate race vote regarding people whom had left it blank. That would be an awful lot of people they would have to have in place to do just that somewhere.

    The key is the vote split. Those drastic changes that were steeply adverse to Scott highly implicated that these votes were being manufactured in a one-sided way for Nelson. You cannot have drops that steep with so few votes. The 72K additional votes if they were done with a proportional 70-30 (rounding up from actual result) split in Nelson’s Favor would yield Nelson a net increase of a little over 29,000 votes. But the decreases were much more than what the actual vote split was in Broward which is additionally highly indicative of fraud.

  474. phoenixrisen says:

    decreases meaning how quickly Scott’s margin of victory was deteorating.

  475. Tina says:

    He Ned’s to also sue in Federal court.

    I do not trust those Judges. They are just as loony as Snipes.

  476. Phil says:

    Broward announced they are done counting everything but the military ballots, Robbie. They suddenly announced this about ten minutes after Scott announced his lawsuit. What a coincidence, huh.

  477. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    November 8, 2018 at 10:23 pm
    Broward announced they are done counting everything but the military ballots, Robbie. They suddenly announced this about ten minutes after Scott announced his lawsuit. What a coincidence, huh.

    – So all of the votes counted in the last day and a half were provisionals?

    Then Scott’s official lead before the recount is a little more than 15,000?

  478. MichiganGuy says:

    Republicans File Lawsuit Over Tight Arizona Senate Race.

  479. MichiganGuy says:

    HOLY CRAP! FLORIDA VOTER Films Broward County Election Officials Transferring Ballots in Rented Truck on Election Night!

  480. phoenixrisen says:

    #490 — Uhoh, they know they caught LOL!!!

  481. BayernFan says:

    So Democrats steal elections, but God forbid Trump says mean snark against loser Republicans or idiot media types. Typical of the Stupid Party. Too bad so sad.

  482. Phil says:

    Phoenix, but they would have to be all provisional votes. Right? I mean, by law only provisionals can be added to their total which has to be reported 30 minutes after the polls close.

    It couldn’t be any other types of vote, could it? Again, the law says the total is what they report half an hour after the poll closing and that total was 642K. 72K added can only be added to that total if they are provisional.

  483. dblaikie says:

    With all due respect Laura is not an expert in Arizona vote counting. According to many sources this dump of votes today is going to Sinema’s best.

  484. BayernFan says:

    but Trump is so meeeeaaaan and uncouth!!!

  485. phoenixrisen says:

    Phil that is absolutely correct.

    Good find MG!

    The jig is up. There are going to be a lot of people going to jail over this.

  486. Bitterlaw says:

    I said the shootings will never stop. NYC takes that as an opportunity to be a douche towards me. Typical.

  487. Robbie says:

    I’ve been searching and I can’t find any release that says Broward is done counting. I can only find that they are done for the day.

  488. phoenixrisen says:

    This is going to lead to new law putting oversight teams from each party within a state in election offices. Snipes just destroyed the credibility of all well meaning county supervisors of elections across the country. She needs to be locked up for quite a few years.

  489. Bitterlaw says:

    498 Sorry, db, but your Red Wave Prediction also takes you out of the expert category.

  490. MichiganGuy says:

    Marco Rubio
    ?Verified account @marcorubio
    16m16 minutes ago

    Every vote legally cast should be counted. That’s the law

    Have no problem with recounts. That’s the law.

    But last early votes were cast Sunday & had to be submitted by Tue evening. That the law too.

    Yet 48 hours after deadline #BrowardCounty is only county still counting them

  491. BayernFan says:

    that’s the biggest problem our country faces… not Democrats stealing elections, not Democrat mobs, not our porous Southern border, not Democrats allowing drugs and gangs into the country….

    but that Trump is mean to idiots and the media which makes phuqqn suburban Facebook hens clutch their pearls.

    Got it.

  492. Marv says:


    FL AG and FL SOS will be in Broward County tomorrow morning. The attempted vote theft was discovered in progress and the appropriate response has been initiated…..just in time,

  493. dblaikie says:

    Here is the text of Scot’s suit against Palm Beach. I am not a lawyer (Bitter please give opinion) but this looks powerful:

  494. Robbie says:

    Bitterlaw says:
    November 8, 2018 at 10:41 pm
    498 Sorry, db, but your Red Wave Prediction also takes you out of the expert category.

    – Sorry to do this, but I’m going to pat myself on the back. My view that Republicans were in position to lose as many as 40 House seats sadly came true.

  495. Phil says:

    post 458, Robbie. Marc did not give a link. Apparently he lives in Florida and said it was announced. he seems to be on top of things there.

  496. dblaikie says:

    Yes Bitter I have egg on my face! I have never claimed to be an expert on Florida recounts either. I didn’t say that. Sorry I offended your thin skin.

  497. MichiganGuy says:

    Sebastian Gorka DrG
    ?Verified account @SebGorka

    Well you asked for it!

    January 1st I start my national radio show: AMERICA FIRST.

  498. Robbie says:

    Marv says:
    November 8, 2018 at 10:43 pm

    FL AG and FL SOS will be in Broward County tomorrow morning. The attempted vote theft was discovered in progress and the appropriate response has been initiated…..just in time,

    – You’re far more confident than I am as to whether they figured out what was taking place just in time. It was clear something irregular was happening yesterday.

  499. phoenixrisen says:

    Looks like a standard petition regarding an injunction db. Scott’s attorneys have filed this obviously in Broward as well. Broward and Palm Beach will have to cease as Pam Bondi and her office of investigators will be onsite and no doubt law enforcement is on site monitoring these counties and where the election boards are at.

  500. Bitterlaw says:

    You did not offend me. You made an ass of yourself. Both can be true.

  501. dblaikie says:

    Now I have asked for your opinion in an area where you are an expert.

    And by the way, at least when I miss stuff I don’t slink away like away and hide in a whole like MD.

    So just to be clear! I was wrong about my prediction for the House during the midterms. However, in the words of the great GM Engineer, George Kettering, “I will try to fail forward.”

  502. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    November 8, 2018 at 10:47 pm
    post 458, Robbie. Marc did not give a link. Apparently he lives in Florida and said it was announced. he seems to be on top of things there.

    – That’s what I figured, but without anything official, I’m worried they’ll just start “creating” more votes tomorrow.

    Honestly, Republicans have been in charge of the state since 1998. You’re telling me there aren’t good conservative judges who can order a stop until everyone understands what is happening?

    For goodness sake, what were Scott and his team doing all day yesterday?

  503. dblaikie says:

    Sometimes I can write well, but sometimes I try to get these posts off in a hurry. Both can be true.

  504. Phil says:

    “what was Scott and his team doing all day yesterday”

    The exact point I was making throughout the first half of this thread.

  505. phoenixrisen says:

    This makes me wonder about Wisconsin and Milwaukee County.

  506. Tina says:

    National voter id law is what is needed.

    Too many illegals plus broward county third world tactics.

  507. dblaikie says:

    Sorry I offended you by making a wrong prediction. I guess no one on this site ever does that. But I don’t regret it. More often than not in my life leading with my heart rather than my head has been productive. So I guess I will continue to do so — even if that offends.

  508. Robbie says:

    So is Broward the only county that’s still “counting” votes in Florida or are other counties still doing this?

  509. Tina says:

    Scott needs to sue in ?Federal court.

    The Florida judges are just as bad, as the corrupt Shingles lady.

  510. Phil says:

    Robbie, essentially, yes. Other counties are done.

  511. dblaikie says:

    Oh I made another mistake. Let me correct it. Sorry you think I was an ASS for predicting a red wave.

  512. Robbie says:

    The repercussions of the train wreck near tie in Florida in 2000 are still being felt today.

    Early voting and provisional voting have made a mockery of the process. In 2000, every vote in Florida was counted by 5AM the morning after.

    Now, here were are counting and counting and counting. California won’t be done counting votes from mail-ins for another two weeks. It’s insanity.

    I’m fine with a brief period of early voting (maybe three days the week before, but darnit it’s election day not election months.

  513. MichiganGuy says:

    Arizona Senate race:
    LOL@ people saying the race is over.
    As of Thursday night, The Arizona Republic estimates that 460,000 ballots have yet to be counted from Tuesday’s election — more than enough to tip statewide and even local contests.

  514. Robbie says:

    So the AP vote count up dated at 10:59 PM show Scott with a 15,071 vote lead. It may change a bit more, but that’s a very tough amount to overcome in a hand count, right?

  515. Tina says:

    What the phuq is Pam Blondi doing?

    Waiting for her next wash, color, and set?

  516. dblaikie says:

    514 Phoenixrisen Thank you for the information. It sounds like this situation is starting to turn.

  517. dblaikie says:

    514 Phoenixrisen Thank you for the information!

  518. Tina says:

    Blondi is not doing anything.

    Blondi let sheriff Israel skate.

    And Trump seriously considered Blondi for a position?

    She seems as dumb as Angela Corey.

  519. NYCmike says:

    “I’m fine with a brief period of early voting (maybe three days the week before, but darnit it’s election day not election months.”

    -Can’t argue with Robbie here.

  520. NYCmike says:

    In regard to Arizona – the numbers seemed to reverse rather quickly, didn’t they?

    Tough to trust these days……

  521. BayernFan says:

    how the phuq do you not count 460,000 ballots 2 days later? Mail ins should be counted as they come in.

  522. Marv says:

    #513 Robbie,

    Phil made a good point up-thread that the vote theft was discovered while DeSantis and Scott still had leads. DeSantis leads by 36,200 and Scott 15,100. It will be hard to steal any more.

  523. dblaikie says:

    Bitter, after reflection I have decided that I was not an ass with my prediction, but I have been an ass in not offering my congrats for your prediction. So let me confess that Winston Churchill’s quote applies to me during this election cycle when he was talking about Clement Atlee, “He is a very humble man, with much to be humble about.”

  524. Tina says:

    It seems like Shingles took the 25000 under votes and “fixed” those ballots in favor of Skeletor and Guloon.

  525. MichiganGuy says:

    #StopTheSteal is trending on Twitter for Arizona & Florida

  526. Scooby77 says:

    Feeling pretty good about Florida. Arizona, on the other hand, has turned into a nightmare.

    To be honest, I’d rather have seen Nelson in the Senate than Sinema. She’s a loud, liberal dingbat. He just shows up, votes, and shuffles off back to Georgetown.

  527. MichiganGuy says:

    “More than 30,000 people fled for their lives Thursday as a late-season wildfire swept across this town in the Sierra foothills, incinerating numerous homes and businesses and prompting desperate rescues of residents trapped inside buildings and on clogged evacuation routes.”

  528. Wes says:

    RRH is saying Snipes is just “incompetent.”


    See, GWB was just incompetent.

    Snipes is actively trying to steal an election.

  529. Marv says:


    Read any good books lately? I’m about to start
    “Killing the SS” by O’Reilly.

  530. John says:

    Scott just file a lawsuit in Florida.
    Which probably means he lost. Add in Sinema’s win…yikes.

  531. Wes says:

    Marv: Thus Spake Zarathustra by Nietzsche, The Book of Five Rings by Musashi Miyamoto, and The Tao te Ching by Lao Tzu.

  532. Wes says:

    All of that has already been discussed upthread, John. No need to panic.

  533. Wes says:

    In the next few days, I plan to start my annual rereading of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Barsoom series and pick up Lewis Shiner’s Slam for the first time in 15 years.

  534. Scooterboy says:

    Do you think Scott loses in Florida, or does he have enough of a cushion?

  535. Marv says:


    That’s an interesting selection.

    I’m about to tackle “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by Shirer. One has to be in the mood and have the time to plow into that one.

  536. Wes says:

    As an outside observer, Scoot, I’d say Scott and DeSantis win. The Florida contingent is better attuned to facts on the ground than I though.

  537. Wes says:

    I need to dig out my copy of Shirer’s book. It’s one of my favorite history books.

  538. Marv says:


    Rick Scott’s lawsuit and the arrival of the FL AG and SOS tomorrow morning is a serious shot across the bow of the Broward and Palm Beach County SOE’s.

    I don’t think there will be anymore cheating…besides that Scott and DeSantis have the leads.

  539. Marv says:


    I also have a copy of Shire’s “Berlin Diary.”

    It’s a First Edition printing and I found it at a used book store about 30 years ago.

  540. Scooterboy says:

    All votes have been counted except overseas and military correct? Shouldn’t Scott and Desantis pick up more votes if that’s the case?

  541. Marv says:


    Not necessarily, but there aren’t enough of those votes to alter the outcome.

  542. Scooterboy says:

    I feel a little better now.
    Don’t understand why Scott waited so long.

  543. Marv says:


    Agreed. Perhaps this will be a short-term nuisance, but a long-term game because both the Broward County and Palm Beach Country SOE’s are in serious legal jeopardy.

    Very bad idea for them to have irritated the incoming Governor so soon.

  544. Marv says:

    Good night folks.

    I’m done for the day.

    Back tomorrow.

  545. phoenixrisen says:

    The Scott lawsuit in Broward is substantially more forceful than Palm Beach. It’s requesting all canvassed ballots when they reported their numbers from Tuesday night to today via the Public Records Act of Florida aside from allowing Scott’s representatives inside to monitor and look over the data. It’s blanket discovery, perfectly lawful, and they have Snipes and the Broward Board of Elections dead to rights. They are screwed.

  546. Phil says:

    Doesn’t surprise me that they are going after Broward the most forcefully. What Snipes and company tried to pull is incredible. Looks like Snipes went all in and really got reckless.

    Burn her.

  547. phoenixrisen says:

    Hey Phil, do you have a Twitter account I can DM you at?

  548. Phil says:

    Phoenix, unfortuately no. Outside of email I’m still in the 19th century.

  549. Todd McCain says:

    Yeah, the AZ race is definitely not over and people need to calm down.

  550. marc says:

    So here is the Florida update:

    Gov Scott ordered the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate Broward and Palm Beach SOE while his campaign filed a public-records lawsuit against each county’s election supervisor.

    Saturday at noon is the deadline for all 67 to send there counts to the SOS office in Tallahassee, which will certify the results and Who will then decide if a recount is lawfully permitted for any race in the state of Florida.

  551. Todd McCain says:

    Also, feel much better about Scott now. If we have 53, it isn’t the end of the world, but would have loved 54 more for insulation for 2020.

  552. marc says:

    What’s left to count:

    Military and overseas ballots

    Provisional Ballots

    The first ballots lean Republican especially Military ballots, the second lean Democrat according to the partisan lean of county but there aren’t many, range is from a dozen to a couple hundred in the largest country ala Miami Dade.

  553. Marc says:

    My perspective:

    While it’s not impossible for a recount in the Senate race to flip the results, Scott, as of Friday morning, led Sen. Bill Nelson by 15,074 votes. Even with 8.1 million ballots cast, that’s a big raw-vote margin to reverse, even after a hand recount. The governor’s race margin of 36,211 is even larger and therefore even harder for Democrat Andrew Gillum to flip in a manual recount. 6 recounts are likely to happen, Sen, Gov, AgC, 1 State Senate and 2 State House races, the deadline is Nov. 18, but most counties will be done long before that outside the Senate race.

  554. Brandon says:

    Just wanted to give a hearty A-Hole greeting of GFY, to the person who gave me crap the other day because I dared to say that Sinema was going to win Arizona.

  555. MichiganGuy says:

    Jason D. Meister
    ? @jason_meister
    13m13 minutes ago

    #BrowardCounty creates ballots almost as fast as Trump creates jobs. #STOPtheSTEAL
    That’s funny.

  556. gameboy says:

    I’m afraid Scott waited a day too long to get involved. I expect the machine recount will get the margin down to 10-12K or so, which will trigger the hand recount. Unless a court gets involved to shut it down,they will have no issues counting until Nelson gets the lead by one vote….no matter how long it takes. DeSantis should be fine. His election night margin appears to have been a tad above the margin of fraud line.

    The way elections are run in this country really is a joke.

  557. MichiganGuy says:

    Marco Rubio
    ?Verified account @marcorubio
    1h1 hour ago

    Under #Florida law county must upload by 7 p.m. day BEFORE election ALL early votes canvassed & tabulated by end of early voting & report results within 30 minutes of polls close

    60 hours after that deadline only 1 of 67 counties is still counting early votes, #BrowardCounty
    Marco Rubio still going off on Broward County corruption.

  558. Scooterboy says:

    One thing I learned following the midterm results.I will be much more careful putting my faith in Larry Schweikart when the next election rolls around.
    He predicted house losses in single digits, and announced that Sinema was done days before the election.

  559. MichiganGuy says:

    gameboy, it is my hope that Scott wanted to give her enough rope to hang herself. In other words he waited on purpose so, there would be plenty of evidence of corruption to prove she was trying to steal the election from him. I have no doubt he will win even if, it has to go to court.

  560. Tina says:

    No, he was flat footed.

    They scammed just enough to get a recount, where they can scam some more.

  561. Marv says:


    I don’t think that Scott’s plan was to wait and allow the corruption to be exposed, but when the fraud became obvious, he acted.

  562. MichiganGuy says:

    Marv, that maybe true but, he couldn’t really do anything until it became obvious.

  563. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    Um there is no fraud. #Counteveryvote.

    Marc Elias says he’s rather be Nelson than Scott.

    My prediction: Nelson by 12,000 votes after Broward finds their machine error.

    Either way if Scott wins, it’s due to a faulty ballot design. He must be proud of himself.

  564. MichiganGuy says:

    We will see what happens. If I was a betting man my money would be on Scott. This isn’t California. Republicans run Florida and they will not get away with fraud.

  565. Tina says:

    Looks like the Jebots are going loony again.

    They claim that Sarah sanders altered a video of Acostad an Intern.

  566. Marv says:

    The fraud is so massive and blatant that it is almost amusing.

    DeSantis and Scott will still win, but they should get this into Federal Court too and ASAP.

  567. Tina says:

    Muh ballot.

    Muh undervote.

  568. Tina says:

    Hi, Marv thanks for the updates.

    Levin encouraged them highly to sue in Fed. Court.

  569. MichiganGuy says:

    What happened to Foxnews on Twitter? They haven’t posted anything in 19 hours.

  570. Marv says:


    At the risk of showing my ignorance, what does “muh” mean?

  571. Tina says:

    Marv, internet slang, me or my.

    I used it a lot for the Russian hoax.

  572. Tina says:

    You’ve probably seen a LOT of pieces this week listing the many historic victories women scored in the midterms, right?

    Nearly all of them “forget” conservative women like Kimberley Yee, Young Kim, and Marsha Blackburn.

    5:35 AM – Nov 9, 2018

    The Rs do not fit the agenda.

  573. janz says:

    Incredible stuff going on after the midterms. The Dems are never good losers. They have truly become the party of heartburn, abuse of those not agreeing with them, and corruption. I only hope that Fl & Arizona are not lost because of their uncanny methods of finding more ways and a greater number of ballots in their favor in order to win.

    I also wish Trump would curtail his impromptu talks to reporters who only want to embarrass or ridicule him, which is not difficult to do, given his feisty temperament and self defensive wordiness.

  574. Tina says:

    Janz supposedly he unloaded again in an impromptu presser this am?

  575. Tina says:

    Jennifer Jacobs
    QUESTION (from @abbydphillip): Do you want acting AG Matt Whitaker to rein in Mueller? TRUMP: “What a stupid question.”
    6:57 AM – 9 Nov 2

    Jebots to be triggered i

  576. Phil says:

    I only have one question. Is Broward County still generating votes or isn’t it?

    Isn’t that all we need to know? Can’t seem to get a definitive answer from the Scott campaign or any of our Florida Republican posters.

    That makes me nervous. Broward has until noon tomorrow to keep playing with the numbers. They know if they can’t get it way down from the 15K it is now they won’t win a recount….so, let’s see what Brenda Snipes does to get the necessary votes. She has about 26 hours until Broward has to deliver their final totals. We will know very soon.

  577. MichiganGuy says:

    Phil, it appears they are done.
    “(Broward elections officials said Thursday night that its count of early and mail ballots was complete.”

  578. marc says:


    Look to my comments earlier this morning.

  579. lisab says:

    michelle obama could be the nominee

    that would throw a monkey wrench into things!

    it would get the african americans back on the democrat plantation

  580. dblaikie says:

    Of course Whitaker is not going to stop Mueller. What he is going to do is support the release of the FISA documents and I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a new special counsel to look into all the stuff that happened before Bob was appointed. The result — making the Mueller investigation pointless.

  581. Cash Cow TM says:

    Would you all quit using racist statements like:

    …”the jig is up”…
    and Michelle Obama could be the nominee “would throw a monkey wrench into things”.

  582. RB says:

    That guy ‘Ryan in SEPA’ is unhinged…he is yelling at one of the posters about an homest discussion of weather GA is a trend or this year a product of a good year for the Dems(which typically happens in a POTUS 1st term midterm)

    I guess honest debate with civil discouse is no longer acceptable at RRH if you disagree with ole Ryan

  583. Just Fill Out the Census says:

    Nelson is suing the FL S of State demanind the Saturday deadline for submitting all votes be extended.

  584. GF says:

    597- Ryan’s a huge A-hole, he’s just butthurt that his corporatist, elitist wing of the old GOP has been made irrelevant. Geographically, he would qualify as a Philly A-Hole, but he’s nowhere near cool enough for the honor.

  585. RB says:

    GF-he seems like he can’t handle honest debate if it interfers with his views

  586. Tina says:

    Broward still has a couple hundred votes.

    Disputed ballots.

  587. Marv says:

    Does anyone know whether or not the FL AG and SOS are in Broward County yet?

  588. Phil says:

    Marc seems to be our go to guy on the ground in Florida. From what he says

    1). all the early in person and early mail in ballots have been counted in each county and that includes Broward.

    2) remaining to be counted overseas ballots, mostly military as well as provisional ballots. There won’t be that many provisionals. Says the most left in any county is 200 in Miami Dade.

    From what Marc says with 1 & 2 it appears Scott would go into any recount with about the 15K lead he has now. My, conclusion is 15K isn’t going to be overcome. Even a hand count isn’t going to swing more than a couple of dozen either way. We saw that in the handcounts of Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami Dade in 2000.

    Nope, the only way Scott loses is if Broward suddenly finds ANOTHER magical 20K votes between now and noon tomorrow. Of course, I wouldn’t put anything past Brenda Snipes but to do that now would be so obvious and blatant it’s hard to imagine – even for a crook like Snipes. Too many officials from the state looking over her shoulder now. I just wish they had been doing so We’d and Thursday. We wouldn’t be here now.

  589. Marv says:


    What’s the source for the Broward info?

  590. Tina says:

    You mean they are just now finding votes in Florida and Georgia – but the Election was on Tuesday? Let’s blame the Russians and demand an immediate apology from President Putin!

    Trump just tweeted this,

  591. Marv says:

    The question is now ……..does Brenda Snipes want to risk jail time just to help Nelson and Gollum or does she want to cut her losses and call it a day?

  592. Phil says:

    Marc didn’t cite his source, Marv.

    However, Nelson suing to extend the the reporting deadline past noon tomorrow would indicate Nelson is out of votes to count.

  593. Tina says:

    Marv, I read it this am. I cannot find it. It was mentioned in an article about Snipes meeting with the media this AM. She did not do the meeting. The article mentioned that there were hundreds of provisionals

  594. Marv says:


    That’s what it looks like to me too…..out of votes to manipulate.

  595. phoenixrisen says:

    #608. — Bridge to nowhere Phil. State law on this and the deadlines are already set. Nelson has no legal recourse.

  596. Dylan says:

    I am not donating to a single additional GOP candidate for anything until I get some acknowledgment from them that our voting systems are PITIFUL and need to be addressed with bi-partisan federal legislation. When the fundraisers come a calling I will tell them just that. NO MORE MONEY.

  597. Marv says:


    DeSantis and Scott are in good shape if the provisional votes are in the hundreds. Not all will be tabulated.

  598. Phil says:

    Agree, Phoenix. The reporting deadlines are set in stone. No wiggle room there at all. Again, that tells me they are out of “found” votes or they wouldn’t be be filing this kind of ridiculous and non winnable lawsuit. They don’t have any more votes to manipulate – especially now that the state officials are looking over their shoulders in Broward.

  599. phoenixrisen says:

    Two things:

    Broward County votes case figure on website has not changed.

    Provisional ballots cast number shows to be 670 in total.

    This means that Snipes violated numerous Florida election laws by this provisional ballot figure.

    Court will likely throw out all ballots submitted after election night that showed on Broward’s website in the couple of days that followed.

  600. phoenixrisen says:

    #604 — Phil, Governor Scott’s office was finally tipped off 🙂 That was the reason for the slow reaction. There is a trust in place with all state election boards to follow state law. Snipes nearly got away with it.

  601. Phil says:

    Here is my deal, phoenix. There is ABSOLUTELY trust in place with all election boards to follow state laws. You are absolutely correct about that. Thing is, the Scott campaign should have made an exception for Broward just based on the track record of that county and particularly one Brenda Snipes.

  602. dblaikie says:

    It is hard to get any accurate info about where the votes are in Arizona accept to say that most of them are in Maricopa County. The question is where and who. I hear that there are 142000 mail in ballots that haven’t been counted yet — if true these will pro McSally votes (mainly elderly retired folks who are likely GOP voters). That is the who. The where is also important. Are the left over early and election day votes from the Scottsdale area? If so then that is good for McSally. However if they are downtown Phoenix or precincts around ASU then that will be great for Semima. Can anyone add any info to this or tell me if I am being accurate with this?

  603. Tina says:

    Donald J. Trump Donald J. Trump
    As soon as Democrats sent their best Election stealing lawyer, Marc Elias, to Broward County they miraculously started finding Democrat votes. Don’t worry, Florida – I am sending much better lawyers to expose the FRAUD!
    View details ·

  604. marc says:

    Passed noon in Florida. Lots of tiny updates coming across the state but results still hovering around 15,000 for Scott. Im assuming counties counting provisionals and mail in ballots has they come in.

  605. Tina says:

    Mitch McConnell said there will be no vote on the protect Fuhrer Mulehead Act. Mitchie just slammed Flakey, who was going to “join” with Drats.

  606. marc says:

    Any update out of AZ I know it’s early morning there? How do we have here that’s on the ground in Az?

  607. phoenixrisen says:

    I get it Phil. Snipes was given a second chance and the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, she abused that trust. She’s going to jail.

  608. Dylan says:

    In all seriousness, WTF, Broward? Is that what you really want to be known for?

  609. Phil says:

    Deadline for reporting the returns from all counties to the SOS is under 24 hours away. Brenda Snipes team furiously filling out ballots which you have to admit really takes balls with the SOS and state attorney general looking over her shoulder.

    Just kidding. I take the reports at their word that Brenda is out of votes.

  610. phoenixrisen says:

    Here’s the thing Phil. The SOS and Pam Bondi weren’t looking over her shoulder until yesterday when the fraud came to light.

  611. Phil says:

    She needs to, phoenix.

    She has a choice. Cut her losses now or continue to go all in with the fraud and risk prison time. She may already be at that point. My guess is she is. Let’s see just how devoted she really is to the cause. Pretty devoted I’d say, but when you are out of votes you are out of votes.

  612. Phil says:

    Yes, Scott let himself be caught flat footed. No doubt. Had the hacks in Broward had one more day they could have pulled it off.

  613. phoenixrisen says:

    I wouldn’t say that the Scott team let themselves be caught flat-footed, they gave Snipes the second chance and benefit in doubt in good faith. The thing is though in a strange way, by the Scott team doing this, it caused Snipes to dig her legal wrongdoing hole so deep she can never get out of it now. Justice will come in and bury her in the hole she dug for herself.

  614. Dylan says:

    630–they are going to need to have HARD evidence to get a conviction. Something that can go to a grand jury–like employees willing to testify “Snipes directed us to do X” there will have to be immunity offers. What a farse.

  615. BayernFan says:

    what exactly is there evidence of that she did?

  616. Tina says:

    Schweikart throws the towel in. enema to be next senator.

  617. Paul says:

    Just because I get news from different sources that the hacks here. Can someone explain to me why you believe there is fraud in Florida? I haven’t heard anything about this except what came out of Scott and Trump’s ass.

  618. Phil says:

    No doubt, Dylan. The thing is that it is so blatant and so obvious she is really exposed. Makes it much more likely she ultimately goes down. Not certain, but she’s got a definite legal problem hanging over her. I wouldn’t want to be her. Let’s just put it that way.

  619. phoenixrisen says:


    Scott complained that the late-arriving votes were steadily shaving his lead.

    “Late Tuesday night, our win was projected to be around 57,000 votes,” Scott told reporters. “By Wednesday morning, that lead dropped to 38,000. By Wednesday evening, it was around 30,000. This morning, it was around 21,000. Now, it is 15,000.”

    He continued: “On election night, Broward County said there were 634,000 votes cast. At 1 a.m. today, there were 695,700 ballots cast on election day. At 2:30 p.m. today, the number was up to 707,223 ballots cast on Election Day. And we just learned, that the number has increased to 712,840 ballots cast on Election Day. In Palm Beach County, there are 15,000 new votes found since election night.”

    The point is, the number of votes cast increased from Election Night through Wednesday. That violates a lot of Florida law. There are deadlines where those ballots must be reported. That is where Snipes was screwed.

  620. GF says:

    Seen on RRH;

    “In a lawsuit filed in Palm Beach County, judge sides with Scott and says duplicate ballots made from physically damaged vote-by-mail ballots must be done in front of canvassing board. ” Per twitter

  621. Phil says:

    The total votes cast had to be released thirty minutes after the polls closed. All Florida counties have a record of that. That’s state law. This is in place to prevent manufactured vote from just “showing up” out of thin air. Broward released the figure at 642,000 at 7 on election night as specified by law – then proceeded to “find” another 72K over the next day and a half.

  622. NYCmike says:

    “Schweikart throws the towel in. enema to be next senator.”

    -That may be a good omen for McSally.

  623. Tina says:

    Patricia Mazzei
    Replying to @PatriciaMazzei
    Now the crowd is chanting, “Gillum is a criminal”
    View conversation ·
    Jack Posobiec ?? retweeted
    Patricia Mazzei Patricia Mazzei
    The scene at the Broward elections office where the canvassing board is preparing to meet. Also chants of, “Lock her up!”
    View photo ·

  624. gameboy says:

    I would think it should be easy to track down those mystery 72K votes that popped up out of thin air to determine their origin and/or validity.

  625. Tina says:

    Donald J. Trump
    In the 2016 Election I was winning by so much in Florida that Broward County, which was very late with vote tabulation and probably getting ready to do a “number,” couldn’t do it because not enough people live in Broward for them to falsify a victory!

  626. marc says:

    The President is on fire ? about Broward County. Now all of Trump nation is aware of the attempt thief by the Democrats of our Senate.

  627. NYCmike says:


    I have been told that is a bad thing.

  628. Phil says:

    Marc, I’m just glad the Scott campaign finally became aware of it. They almost waited too late.

  629. Scooterboy says:

    “Schweikart throws in the towel”

    He probably missed the ring.

  630. Dylan says:

    Its so easy to “Friday morning quarterback” this but I really think the GOP has to be MUCH MUCH better moving forward on pre-identifying any and all counties where shenanigans are known to occur and have solid plans in place to address it. Scott was certainly almost too late, but it’s as if the lessons of 2000 were lost because 2002 and 2004 went smooth and basically FL has not been tick tight since the Bush/Gore era.

    But for example, did anyone ever do or attempt an expose on the Franken Coleman Race in 2008 in MN. Or all the Dino Rossi losses in WA over the years?

    we have to be better moving forward and that includes in purple states like AZ—which is absurd they have multiple 6 figures of ballots uncounted. Isn’t it someone in the Party’s job to make sure this stuff doesn’t happen? Maybe they are doing their job

  631. dblaikie says:

    Just heard that GOP is suing Maricopa County Recorder for improper tampering.

  632. Paul says:

    So, the GOP plan is to sue when they can’t win legally.

  633. gameboy says:


    Why am I not shocked LOL They really have to get rid of the mail away voting nonsense. Creates a system that invites fraud.

  634. Paul says:

    Yes, gameboy, none of us our shocked at the GOP trying to steal an election through a lawsuit.

  635. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    649. “So, the GOP plan is to sue when they can’t win legally.”

    Paul, what are you qualifications to make this statement?

  636. gameboy says:


    The lawsuits are to prevent the theft of an election. The Dems have stolen many elections in the past…..typically where the vote margin is within a couple thousand or so. It will be the best heist of all time if they can wrangle this thing away from Scott. The guy was up over 50K in votes at the end of Tuesday night.

  637. Phil says:

    Guys, don’t feed the troll.

  638. Paul says:

    I see no signs of a heist. All I hear is a bunch of hot air from the President and Rick Scott. No one believes either of these felons anymore.

  639. Paul says:

    On Predictit, they said Nelson has now jumped in the lead. Is that bs? I don’t see it anywhere else.

  640. Hugh says:

    Paul you should hustle over there and betbig on Nelson

  641. BayernFan says:

    In the future, federal personnel need to run the elections in those Miami counties. So much history of fraud there.

  642. Dylan says:

    658–the only way that happens is as a byproduct of a federal suit which as far as I can tell has not yet been filed. Perhaps there is still time for 2020.

  643. BayernFan says:

    with the stroke of a pen….federalize the national guard and guarantee and enforce the US Constitution. Let the frauds in Florida sue. Phuq em.

  644. GF says:

    Don’t know where the ballots are coming from, but Martha has managed to chip away at the 9,700 vote lead, now about 8,900.

  645. NYCmike says:


    I would get excited, but McSally was leading, and them POOF, she wasn’t.

    Chipping away……not sure if we have the time for that.

  646. dblaikie says:

    Martha may lose. But this writing her off before the tons of votes left to counted is a little short sighted. Right now it seems to me that we are in the 7th inning and Sienma is up by 1 run.

  647. Paul says:

    BayernFan. Are you a f^cking moron?

  648. Paul says:

    It looks like about 20,000 more votes came in Arizona with a slight lean toward Martha.

  649. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Sadly, not looking good for Mia Love in Utah.

  650. Paul says:

    She didn’t love Trump enough.

  651. Phil says:

    Exactly twenty and a half hours left for Snipes to come up with another 15K votes and put Nelson in the lead for the runoff.

  652. Wes says:

    Supposedly McSally has cut Sinema’s lead to 8256. That may bode well for Team Martha.

    How many military ballots are outstanding? McSally should clean house there.

  653. Wes says:

    Since Republicans have begun watching Broward, Phil, I don’t think Sbipes can make up the remaining difference.

  654. Marv says:

    #670 Wes,

    Agreed….I doubt Snipes wants to increase her risk of criminal liability just to cheat any further for Gillum an Nelson.

  655. dblaikie says:

    Pretty soon we are going have Robbie here talking about Stormy Daniels again. Prepare for incoming BS.

  656. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Rick Scott wins in Broward Court against the Broward Election Commission and Snipes.
    All documents must be produced by 7 tonight.

  657. phoenixrisen says:

    Wes, I thought the results of the daily canvass post at 5 p.m. Mountain Standard Time. So there is a few hours left. Probably will be roughly a week before the results are finalized.

  658. phoenixrisen says:

    #673 — Ouch, Scott gets his blanket discovery granted. Snipes is screwed, no way out. She has to show were those additional votes came in post election.

  659. Wes says:

    Republicans are saying Dems are trying to steal the AZ Senate election—and May have a legitimate case:

  660. George says:

    “Just out — in Arizona, SIGNATURES DON’T MATCH,” Trump posted on Twitter Friday afternoon. “Electoral corruption — Call for a new Election? We must protect our Democracy!”

  661. Phil says:

    Ok, so the judge’s ruling should force Broward to let us know definitively where these 72K ballots came from? Is that what the ruling means? And is it also true that Snipes had refused to divulge that information?

  662. Tom says:

    Can anyone tell me one time when a Democrat was ahead after the polls closed and declared the winner that some conservative county magically found tens of thousands of votes that put the Republican ahead? Just once? It is always the slimeball liberals that do this and more often than not, get away with it.

  663. Wes says:

    Tom: Wisconsin judicial race, 2011.

  664. CG says:

    I can’t tell if Trump is calling for a new election in Arizona or being sarcastic?

    If he is calling for a new election, that’s a really bad sign in regards to the current results (and would be an impossible precedent to start.)

  665. phoenixrisen says:

    Kathy Nicholas, I remember that one Wes. Apparently she forgot to disburse a voting batch out of Waukesha County and Kloppenburg who was up by 200 votes or so suddenly had a 7,000 vote drop hit her. Nate Silver verified Nicholas looking at the vote batch saying it was in line with past results.

    Phil, yes, everything has to be disclosed to Scott’s lawyers in a few hours.

  666. Tina says:

    The problem with Az

    Mail in, if sigs. Do not match is most counties, you have until Election Day to fix.

    In drat counties, you have 5 days after.

    Equal protection violation,

  667. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    The only election I can think of is the 2010 Wisconsin Supreme Court run-off. A Republican County had overlooked reporting a net 7,000 GOP advantage on the first counting.
    Otherwise, such happenings are as rare as a Big Foot sighting.

  668. Tina says:

    They need to raid Snipes office.

    Where is the Fib?

  669. CG says:

    “Big Foot sighting”

    Congrats to Rep-elect Denver Riggleman!

  670. phoenixrisen says:

    Judge Carol-Lisa Phillip said Snipes must allow inspections on or before 7 p.m. Friday evening. Phillips found that Snipes violated that law by failing to turn over the information to attorneys for Scott’s Senate campaign and the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

    Lawyers for Snipes argued that requiring such a swift response would interfere with ongoing efforts to finish counting Broward County ballots. But lawyers for Scott contended the information is already required to be collected under state law and should take minutes to provide.

    Scott filed a lawsuit Thursday night against, asking the court to order Snipes to turn over several records detailing the counting and collection of ballots.

    But Snipes attorney said in court Friday that it would be inappropriate for the court to intervene at this time, simply because Scott wants the counting process to be sped up.

    The attorney said Snipes is not refusing to turn over the records, but needs more time to do so.

    Scott’s thin lead over Nelson has narrowed during the vote-counting in the days since he declared victory Tuesday night.

  671. Tina says:

    The AZ Data Guru
    AZ outstanding, based on county estimates only 11/9 12:33pm Apache: 2.9k Cochise: 626 Coconino: 10.5k Gila: unk. prov, 0 early La Paz: 576 Maricopa: 345k Mohave: 4k Navajo: 4k ima: 53k Pinal: 29k Santa Cruz: 2.2k Yavapai: 4k Yuma: 341
    View details ·

  672. Waingro says:


    “AZ SEN update: Kyrsten Sinema now leads Martha McSally by 8,842 votes after new tranche of results coming in. AZ sources say Maricopa’s big drop at 5pm MT/7pm ET will be real bad for McSally. Sunday/Monday counts will help her cut into whatever lead Sinema can build.”

  673. phoenixrisen says:

    So reading between the lines, Snipes’ attorneys want more time to clean up the fraud. They won’t get it. Appealing to the Supreme Court is useless here.

    So, Scott’s team will go in with the judge’s order and turn that place inside out.

    I was wrong, this isn’t just blanket discovery. This is a political and legal body cavity search LOL!!! This is going to suck for Snipes.

  674. Phil says:

    Scott was not requesting that Snipes turn over the information simply because he wanted the process “speeded up”. He was requesting it because that’s the law and Snipes was ignoring it.

    Democratic lawyers must think the judge is stupid.

  675. Paul says:

    Trump and Scott are going a little nuts. They must be pretty worried.

  676. Tina says:

    Snipes will bark racism.

    She has an ugly past of doing so.

  677. Paul says:

    You don’t know what you are talking about.

  678. dblaikie says:

    689 One thing I have learned over this past election cycle is not to trust the stuff that comes from Twitter. That person might be right, I have no idea, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the result is something different.

  679. Phil says:


    Amen, Phoenix

  680. Paul says:

    Scrambling to buy Nelson yes at PredictIt.

  681. CG says:

    It’s pretty darn obvious that incompetent voters in Broward County accidentally missed voting in federal races there due to the ballot design.

    That’s their own fault-it wasn’t an elected Republican who designed that ballot, but Scott got lucky because of that and it could make all the difference between him winning and losing.

    *If* there are shenanigans going on with the counting there and elsewhere, then it is absolutely important for legal professionals to guard against the system being corrupted. It sounds like the steps are in motion in Florida to prevent that.

    One way or another, the Russians are enjoying this story. It’s exactly what they want.

  682. Paul says:

    Jeb Bush says that there is no signs of fraud in FLorida.

  683. Tina says:

    Yeah sources say…

    Then 2 tweets later this “reporter” admits that Enemas lead dropped by over 800.

    There are 450k votes to count.

  684. Phil says:

    That’s the way the judge ruled, Paul. I guess she didn’t know what she was talking about either. You want to enlighten us on why her ruling was wrong? Educate us, ol wise one.

  685. CG says:

    Trump should shut up and let the process play out. There’s nothing going to be accomplished by revving up his base. Instead, it will make more people suspicious that something untoward may have actually happened. There are legal processes to be followed. If he is angry about results and talking about fraud and “new elections” he’s just previewing what he intends to say after 2020 if it doesn’t go his way.

  686. Tina says:

    Donald J. Trump
    President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!
    View details ·

    Global Macaroni is a stooge.

  687. marc says:

    The entire nation once again is seeing what a s-hole the Democrat vote sink Broward County is, the most corrupt and badly ran county in the United States, also let’s not forget Broward is home to Sherif Scott Israel of Parkland fame, he still holds office in that county, so the incompetence and corrupt is deep and widespread.

  688. Phil says:

    I happen to agree that Trump should put a sock in it and let the lawyers handle it.

  689. Waingro says:

    Is Paul our new Senior Dem Troll on here?

  690. BayernFan says:

    Paul is an idiot. He’s perfectly OK with vote fraud. Typical Dem.

  691. Tina says:

    Just now on @WMALDC: J. Christian Adams reveals anti-Trumpers Ed O’Callahan and Sarah Isgur Flores leaking on behalf of Rod Rosenstein to damage Matt Whittaker and try to force recusal.

    Redactstein. Is bound to do something stupid.

    He signed a Fisa Warrant. He and McCabe hate each other.

    But he is so vital that he could not recuse himself for his conflicts?

  692. Tina says:

    I love voter fraud too.

    The under votes were all votes for Ds.


  693. Phil says:

    Marc, what are your thoughts on why Dade – just as Democratic as Broward and Palm Beach with more total ballots cast was able to be so efficient getting the votes counted all the while complying with reporting guidelines – while Broward is a circus?

  694. CG says:

    Broward probably has the slowest drivers too.

  695. phoenixrisen says:

    This is RICH!

    The Democratic lawyers actually have the gall to claim equal protection violation because a signature does not match on a provisional ballot. This is a hail mary of epic proportions. Check out wherefore requests (A), (C), and (D)

    The requests to indefinitely extend the state’s deadline in Florida and to state that all votes that have mismatched signatures be deemed valid are extraordinarily humorous. What form of verification would the government be left with? Hilarious for them to even try this.

  696. phoenixrisen says:

    Saw this comment over at Free Republic. Right on point and what I said earlier about the post-election ballots would be thrown out by the Court.

    The issue about the records is this: Each county in the state has reported the number of votes cast. Broward has not. The county cannot show a greater number of votes than the original number of votes cast; which is what Broward is trying to do. If you can’t present the accurate numbers, then all Broward county votes are disqualified.

  697. Tina says:

    The Fusion gps lawyer is funny.

    Prolly trying to buy the seat for the Russians,

  698. marc says:

    Dade while on federal level is Democrat locally it’s a mix bag, up until this election most of the congressional districts in Dade was GOP, now it’s 3 to 1 Democrat. Many local offices are held by Republicans including the county mayor and Miami mayor. So the local system while still having problem isn’t slanted towards one party machine.

  699. Phil says:

    715 Thanks. Makes sense.

  700. Tina says:

    Broward Supervisor Brenda Snipes was just found to have violated the constitutional rights of Floridians. It would be outrageous to allow her to continue this fiasco. @FLGovScott needs to do his job, suspend her, and have the Secretary of State place the office in receivership.

    Matt gaetz

  701. BayernFan says:

    Almost 7pm

  702. NYCmike says:

    “Almost 7pm”

    Isn’t there a part in Dazed And Confused where one of the actors is taking a test and running out of time…….


  703. Marv says:


    Yep, and I hope marc is around to give us the scoop.

  704. Tina says:

    There will be an 80k vote drop in Maricopa co.

  705. Marv says:


    McSally’s should brace for impact.

    Word is that tomorrow and Sunday should be better.

    Ducey will probably appoint her to replace Kyl after Kyl resigns next year.

  706. Tina says:

    Enema up 31k

  707. Waingro says:

    Sinema up by 22K. It’s ovah.

  708. Waingro says:

    Sorry, 32K. Pack it in. Pray for Rick Scott.

  709. Tina says:

    Typo 21k

  710. Waingro says:

    Lol. My first answer was right. Still a huge lead.

  711. Tina says:

    Still 3 more days to count in maricopa.

    80k a day, 260k left?

  712. Waingro says:

    “That was devastating in Maricopa for McSally. Didn’t at all follow the trend.”

  713. Tina says:

    Now enema up 20.8k.
    New drop somewhere?

  714. Tina says:

    Now enema up 20.2k

  715. Frank says:

    20203 now

  716. Tina says:

    About 345k remain

    Holiday weekend.

  717. Marv says:

    When this is all settled, there will be either 53 or 54 GOP Senators in the next Congress.

    There will likely be a Senator McSally in either case.

  718. Cash Cow TM says:

    Well…sad to report that, in a much smaller way, WV had joined the ranks of the states where voting discrepancies have occured.

    In Kanawha County (Charleston) they have discovered a discrepancy in the voting. I am not sure exactly, but it appears that the number of votes cast exceeded the number of people who voted by a total of over 1700 extra (?) votes. there are 19 precincts involved. The range of overvotes (?) is anywhere from 8 in one precinct to 339 votes. Five other precincts ranged from 112 to 175 ballots.

    Also there are over 500 provisional ballots still need to process in Kanawha county.

    All these ballots could affect the outcome of several races, including some very close seats in the State legislature where Ds defeateds Rs.

    Detains are hazy…lawyers have descended on the courthouse…and the WV SOS’s people are assisting KC to figure this out.

    NOBODY seems to know HOW this could happen. The KC Commission will not have this sorted out until Tuesday morning (when they will at least do the provisional ballots and canvass the election).

    Despite the fact that long term county clerk Vera McCormick is a very competent person and very honest…let the WV jokes begin.

  719. sane_voter says:

    is there someone better than McSally to take the McCain seat?

  720. Tina says:

    Gp reports that snipe missed the deadline,
    Rs back to court?

  721. Dylan says:

    If Sinema is the legitimate winner of the AZ election, that would be a really sad indicator of the state of the AZ electorate–to go for such a lackluster human. Was AZ ever on the radar as being a state where the Dems are able to engage in “Broward County-ism” or “Kings County Washington ism” or is this the first such election? does anyone know?

  722. Paul says:

    Okay, I’m going to say that the Democrats are probably foolish to make a big deal about the undervote. I’d have no idea how they’d decipher the results. But even a 60/40 split of the undervote would still less that 5000 votes. Not enough. I think Scott has this thing.

  723. Phil says:

    Why go back to court, Tina.

    So Snipes can just ignore another judge’s order. She’s proved over the last three days, indeed her entire career, she is above the law. She’s going to do whatever the hell she wants.

  724. Victrc says:

    I spent the day with diplomats from countries like Senegal and Gabon today and they each commented on how they should head to Florida yo really learn how to steal elections. They called themselves amateurs compared to what’s happening in the US…again citing Florida.

    That’s real folks. That’s how the world is seeing us right now.

    On another note, a very high diplomat from a middle eastern country who for obvious reasons has no love loss for Trump told me that he’s been actively involved in diplomacy since the 1970’s and he’s never seen a president like trump. He stated that despite his idiotic rhetoric he’s never seen a president, or politician elsewhere for that matter, deliver on everything he’s said like Trump has. Love him or hate him, he added, no one gets things done like him.

    Their words not mine. Take it for what it’s worth.

  725. NYCmike says:

    Love that woman personally, think she is a real sparkplug, but I hope she retires due to moving on from this latest injury and the realization that she gave it a good run, and not due to cancer coming back.

  726. jackj says:

    746–If true, get the popcorn ready for the Amy Coney Barrett hearings. The Dems will go full scale lunatic!

  727. Paul says:

    You guys nearly had me with the fake Ginsberg story.

  728. phoenixrisen says:

    Rep. Matt Gaetz


    The lawyers for #BrendaSnipes will not allow comply with court order. That very same order, ruled that Snipes violated the Florida Constitution by not allowing access to these important records. I suspect the night will lead into drafting a motion for contempt…

    This is direct contempt of Brenda Snipes and her lawyers. Scott should send officers and state officials in there right away. Also, get really nasty and have Snipes and her lawyers arrested for probable cause of direct contempt of Court.

  729. Phil says:

    Wait, she still hasn’t complied with the court order? Is this for real? She doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    Tells me she and her lawyers know she’s screwed and are desperately covering up her dirty work.

    I’ve never heard of anything like this in my life. Non compliance and out and out contempt of court. Rep Gretz Must be mistaken. There’s no way.

  730. ReadyFirst says:

    “As expected given his comments during a hearing this afternoon, Tallahassee federal Judge Robert Hinkle tonight is refusing to grant
    ’s request to postpone Saturday’s noon deadline for counties to report their preliminary vote totals. #FloridaRecount”

  731. ReadyFirst says:

    Former FL Lt. Governor Kottkamp:

    “Affidavit filed by Broward Election’s employee in support of Caldwell lawsuit provides eye witness account of Elections staff filling in blank ballots. When this was reported the employee was fired and told not to come back. #sayfie”

  732. Phil says:

    Ok. Enough is enough.

  733. Paul says:

    So you don’t want the votes counted, Phil?

  734. phoenixrisen says:

    The absentees that increased the votes cast lead post deadline will be thrown out by the Court. Scott’s lead is going to go back up substantially. Scott’s seat is safe.

    Makes me wonder what happened in Arizona.

  735. Hugh says:

    Yes Phil does. And they were counted and by law you don’t get to keep counting. Paul I could see your point if a raging conservative ran elections in broward but with a partisan like snipes running it if she is that incompetent then I suggest the democrats replace her. Miami with even more voters met the rules. The rules were designed to prevent fraud I hope that beach goes to jail as she should. You lost. grow up.

  736. Phil says:

    The lawsuit wasn’t to stop the vote count, stupid, but you know that. The lawsuit was to get the Broward Elections Supervisor to comply with the law that the other 67 counties have already complied with and turn over mandated information – information on the total votes processed and where the 72K “found ballots” came from. It’s Florida law. The judge issued a court order for Snipes to do just that.

    Not a damned thing about stopping the vote count so cut it out.

  737. Marv says:


    Did Scott’s legal team request any court to through out any late absentee votes? If not, how would the late votes be invalidated?

  738. Hugh says:

    Phil. Paul does not care about anything but winning and his hate is so strong he does not care how they win. He and those like him are sad people who have lost their moral compass because they are so sure they are right it no longer matters how they win

  739. Phil says:

    As always, with Democrats, the end always justifies the means.

    The situation in Broward this week is a perfect example.

  740. Paul says:

    Governor Abrams. It shall be.

  741. Paul says:

    I agree. They should replace her as soon as she gets done counting.

  742. Paul says:

    It’s also getting to be less that 100,000 votes between Cruz and Beto. That one might not be over yet.

  743. Bitterlaw says:

    Phil – Races in Georgia, Florida and Arizona should not have been close enough to steal. Dems were pissed at Trump and they came out. All the analysis of EV? Zzzzzzzzz.

  744. Paul says:

    I agree, Bitter. Now the GOP thieves are trying to swipe all sorts of stuff and flex balls.

  745. michael corleone says:

    Paul this TX Senate has an over 225,000 Cruz margin. Stop making stuff up.

  746. Bitterlaw says:

    It is easier to steal elections when people vote for a month than when they only vote on one day. Discuss.

  747. Paul says:

    Kemp was working really hard at stealing Georgia.

  748. Phil says:

    Kemp didn’t steal anything. He was above 50% on election night and has never been behind.

    As for Texas, the SOS reports Cruz won by 220,000 votes with 7965 0f 7965 precincts recording 100% of their vote.

    Texas is not California or Arizona that counts votes for days and weeks after the election…..and we’re certainly not the clown show that is Florida.

  749. sane_voter says:

    Snipes was appointed as Broward SoE by Jeb Bush in 2003 to replace another black woman, Miriam Oliphant, whom he removed from office due to gross incompetence. Believe it or not, Oliphant was more corrupt/incompetent than Snipes.

    It is likely that Bush was hesitant to replace Oliphant with a non-black person. Plus any Republican he placed into the office would get beaten in the next election anyway.

    When Broward sheriff Ken Jenne was convicted on numerous corruption charges in 2007, Charlie Crist nominated Al Lamberti to replace him. He won his first election in 2008 as a Republican over Scott Israel, but just barely. He lost the rematch in 2012, even though he was well respected and had a ton of endorsements. Could not overcome being an R in Broward.

    And we see how well Scott Israel’s sheriff’s dept did during the Parkland shooting.

  750. sane_voter says:

    Snipes has easily won re-election multiple times, easily steamrolling competition in the Dem primary, even with all the taint of her incompetence.

  751. jackj says:

    762–To be Governor she actually has to win. Kemp is still at 50.3% No runoff.

  752. Cash Cow TM says:

    Why is Wesley Snipes in charge of voting in Broward County FL?

    He lives in Californicatia, I think.

  753. Cash Cow TM says:

    With all this extra counting in FL and AZ it blew my win/loss predictions all to h3ll.

  754. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    655. “I see no signs of a heist. All I hear is a bunch of hot air from the President and Rick Scott. No one believes either of these felons anymore.:

    Paul, can you tell me when they were convicted of felonies?

    I know your not an adult, but calling someone a felon in the real world can result in a defamation lawsuit. Unfortunately for you, incompetence is not a defense.

  755. MichiganGuy says:

    I can’t believe some of you are dumb enough to argue with Paul. You know he is a troll right? And when I say troll I mean he purposely makes stuff up just to make people mad. Now stop feeding the troll!

  756. Tina says:

    Snipes was appointed by Flub. Really?

  757. dblaikie says:

    Bitter, I agree this voting for a month stuff opens up endless possibilities for fraud and just plain ineptitude. If we wanted to increase voter participation have the vote on a Friday and Saturday and make Friday a national holiday. That would be a process much easier to control and more open. Further I hold the counting of the votes the next day. The whole country at once. That would give the various Secretaries of State to certify the number.

  758. dblaikie says:

    That would give the various Sec. of State TIME …

  759. Victrc says:

    The one problem with making voting day a national holiday, especially if it’s a Friday or Monday is that people will just use it as that…a holiday. They will go away or make plans…not vote. It would sort of defeat the purpose

  760. Tgca says:

    How the heck am I supposed to predict the final election results and show that I have superior political prediction skills if they’re still counting votes. As soon as they’re done counting, I will post my final prediction that proves my vast intellect over all you small-minded peons here at HHR.

  761. Tina says:

    John Cardillo 23m
    Democrats are screaming “racism” in Broward County to protect corrupt Brenda Snipes. And sadly, as usual, the GOP is balking.
    View details ·

    Muh racism and gop-e retreat.

  762. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Is anybody here at HHR upset that the lovely and gracious Marsha Blackburn will replace the squish,Bob “Iran Deal” Corker, as a Republican in the US Senate?

  763. MichiganGuy says:

    WSJ Editorial Board
    Nov. 9, 2018 7:30 p.m. ET

    Democrats have a hard time accepting electoral defeat. They’ve spent two years claiming with little evidence that Vladimir Putin elected Donald Trump. And now comes a vote-counting debacle in southern Florida that is at best gross incompetence, though don’t rule out an attempt to steal GOP wins for Senate and Governor.

  764. Robbie says:

    King Trumper Jason fraud will not like this. Winston Churchill’s grandson is not happy Trump didn’t want to get his hair wet today.

    Nicholas Soames

    They died with their face to the foe and that pathetic inadequate @realDonaldTrump couldn’t even defy the weather to pay his respects to The Fallen #hesnotfittorepresenthisgreatcountry

  765. Robbie says:

    Republicans have now fallen behind in another House race in California so that makes 39 seats where Democrats have either won or lead in seats Republicans held. On top of that, Mimi Walters is barely ahead with plenty of votes to count.

    Trump has lead the party to its worst showing in the House since Watergate! But remember, King Trumper Jason fraud claims Trump is the only person who can put together a winning coalition in 2020. He also said Republicans would only lose 20 House seats and the close seats would all swing towards the Republicans.

  766. Tina says:

    Palm Beach loses lawsuit filed by nbc over counting of ballots.

    They will steal Florida.

    You watch.

    Jebots love fraud.

  767. Tina says:

    And the whole game was to force a hand recount of all Fl ballots, not machine.

  768. Tina says:

    Jack Posobiec ??
    None of the people who usually cry “threat to democracy” to everything Trump says or does are totally silent about actual threats to democracy in Broward County Funny how that works
    View details ·

    Where are the Never Trumpers.

    Ordering cocktails on the Lido deck and writing their article for the Weekly Socialist?

  769. gameboy says:


    That’s a foregone conclusion. Scott waited too long to get involved. The Florida authorities needed to step in when Broward county didn’t have the ballot count in within a half hour of polls closing. I may take a few months, but they will keep counting until Nelson is ahead by one vote at which time they will declare victory, and the whimpy Reps will let them get away with it. We have seen this before.

  770. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    787. Lets not forget the last mid-term election during a President’s first term was in 2010. The Democrats lost 63 seats; and 6 seats in the Senate. President Obama went on to win re-election.

    As an NPR story from 2014 stated: “History tells us that midterm elections are bad — sometimes very bad — for the party that controls the White House.”

  771. Marv says:

    I am not as pessimistic as some are about DeSantis and Scott.

    I expect that both will hold on and win.

    The Ag Commissioner seat is probably in trouble, unless the courts rule that the universe of voters in Broward and Palm Beach Counties reverts to what was reported to have been cast on the election night.

  772. John says:

    Perhaps a glimmer of hope for McSally in Arizona?
    This is what I understand…aprox. 365,000 votes left to count/verify…
    aprox..30,000+ in red rural counties that heavily favor McSalley
    …60,000 in Pima County that favors Sinema
    These two might cancel out each other or maybe McSally picks up a thousand or two.
    The remaining 266,000 in Maricopa County. From what I read this amount is might favor McSally since they were either the early in person ballots which the GOP had or the early drop off ballots on election day before the Democratic surge in the later afternoon and evening.
    First dump is hours away.

  773. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    786. “They died with their face to the foe and that pathetic inadequate @realDonaldTrump couldn’t even defy the weather to pay his respects to The Fallen notfittorepresenthisgreatcountry”

    That is a bogus claim.

    “Mr Trump was supposed to participate in a wreath-laying and a moment of silence at the site, but heavy rain prevented him from arriving via helicopter to the site, which is more than 50 miles east of the French capital.”

  774. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    794. Hope your right. Its hard to determine what the final vote will be when batches of votes from special geographic areas made on certain dates, are dumped into the vote total. The current Sinema lead is discouraging though.

  775. phoenixrisen says:

    So did Broward report their numbers? 😉

  776. janz says:

    #783 Tina, being a minority makes you bulletproof, in being accountable for any wrongdoing, in the eyes of the Dems and media allies. It seems the only way a party that is not the democrat party can safely win is by having margins large enough to counter all the post election bs!

  777. marc says:

    Broward has now reported its final vote totals, and in so doing cut DeSantis’s lead to 33,684 (a reduction of 825), and Scott’s lead to 12,562 (a reduction of 845).

  778. Marc says:

    All 67 counties have now reported, and we have an unofficial vote tally. As it stands, DeSantis leads Gillum by 33,684, and Scott leads Nelson by 12,562. That will precipitate an automatic recount for DeSantis, and a manual recount for Scott

  779. marc says:

    There are now two things left to do statewide: First, count yet-to-arrive overseas/military ballots; second, proceed to those mandatory recounts. All being equal, neither step looks as if it’ll be enough for either Gillum or Nelson.Around 20,000 overseas/military ballots have yet to be returned. Deadline for their return is the 16th. In reality, half of these will never be returned, will arrive too late, or will be rejected

  780. phoenixrisen says:

    The Broward numbers will be immediately challenged since they did not report their previous numbers according to state law nor did Snipes comply with the court order.

  781. Marv says:


    For clarification, both DeSantis and Scott will have a machine recount. If either race turns out to be within .25%, that particular race will be recounted by hand statewide.

  782. phoenixrisen says:

    Let me clarify, the only numbers Broward did cite correctly are what was reported on election night showing precincts were 100% counted. That number according to Scott was 634,000 votes. The numbers that were reported the following day increasing the vote totals were reported contrary to Florida law. That batch will probably be thrown out.

  783. Marv says:

    #801 marc,

    My #803 was not a challenge to your post, but more in the form of a question…..just to confirm my understanding of the machine/hand recount procedure.

  784. janz says:

    It’s helpful to have people like Marc and Marv around to get onto the procedual weeds regarding the election debacle going on in Fl.

  785. Marc says:

    By state law the Gov race will be a machine recount and the Senate race will be a hand recount all under direction of the SOS office.

  786. phoenixrisen says:

    Oh my gosh, the press totally torched Snipes’ lawyers who filled in for her at the press conference she stated she was going to hold.

  787. marc says:

    Gov Scot has the power to fire her and place the Broward SOEO under the receivership of the SOS office and have the state conduct the recount in Broward, but that wouldn’t look ethical.

  788. Marv says:

    #807 marc,

    I thought that FL state law required a machine recount when the reported result was within .50% and a manual recount if the result was within .25% after the machine recount.

    I don’t believe that the Senate and Ag Commissioner races are going straight to a hand recount before a machine recount.

  789. marc says:

    There will be a machine count to tabulate the votes regardless, then if it’s close to trigger a hand recount the AgiC and Senate will be a hand recount tho

  790. Dylan says:

    Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy. I’m curious as to whether there is anything the Florida GOP could have done BEFORE the election to assure this type of situation does not occur?

    One could argue that “Scott didn’t get going quick enough after the election” but I’m really curious as to how this type of thing can be stopped moving forward. This is only going to get worse in future election cycles.

  791. sane_voter says:

    Whatever the Dems can get away with here will be the blueprint going forward in all close races.

  792. phoenixrisen says:

    So, final Broward totals show that there were 688+ votes for the U.S. Senate and a little over 700K votes for governor. 714K total ballots were cast according to Broward though it is still unclear where these extra votes came past reporting deadlines as required by law. Either way, this puts this into hand recount territory regarding the Senate race.

    Also, Bill Nelson isn’t happy about the Florida signature mismatch law and wants all provisionals and submitted ballots with mismatched signatures to be allowed and valid. So, he wants fraudulent votes, says a lot.

    Florida is done though Snipes is going to have a lot of legal fees to pay over the year to avoid going to jail.

  793. marc says:

    Secretary of State orders full machine recount, results due by noon on Thursday. Current margin in Senate race is 12,562 (.15%).

  794. sane_voter says:

    Normally the vote fraud that goes on in Broward is blue-on-blue back stabbing.
    So I think the state has let it go.
    But since this is impacting the statewide race, it is time to clean house and send these crooks to prison.

  795. sane_voter says:

    Unfortunately the new bosses will probably be the same as the old bosses, to paraphrase Roger D.

    But at the least they should know their crooked predecessors are in prison.

  796. sane_voter says:

    Gillam and Nelson want non-citizens to vote

  797. Waingro says:

    McSally would need about 53% of remaining votes. Not happening.

    “AZ SEN update: Sinema 991,189, McSally 970,986 (Sinema +20,203, up ~11,400 votes on Fri). Ballots remaining, per @Garrett_Archer: 266k in Maricopa, 61k in Pima, 27k in Pinal, 10k in Coconino, a few thousand others here and there.”

  798. BayernFan says:

    Scott should put it into sos receivership. Who gaf what it looks like.

  799. Waingro says:

    Looks like small batch came in to put McSally within 19K.

  800. Phil says:

    Be glad we will hold to Florida.

  801. George says:

    Larry Schweikart

    1) Well, well. I (thankfully) may have spoken too soon: it in fact appears there may be a path to a narrow victory for McSally.

    A judge has ruled that the GOP can “cure their ballots” meaning they can go through all the disallowed ballots that Ds have had for four days.

  802. marc says:

    Republicans control Az, if it’s close there is no reason For the state to give all the breaks to McSally to allow her to win. Republicans need to start playing all or nothing like the Democrats. It’s no coincidence that all uncalled races mostly go to the Democrats in California or New York or Illinois etec.

  803. dblaikie says:

    Waingro, McSally could get that much. The word is that the vote counting these first days would be very pro Sinema, but the last days will be pro McSally. Why? Well the thinking is (not me) that with the exception of Prima, the pro Sinema vote is in. But the big thing is that there is about 150000 Maricopa mail in ballots that will be counted in the next couple of days. These are mainly retired people who make Maricopa competitive. Unlike other urban areas Maricopa is different because of the huge retirement population.

    I am not expert on Arizona voting, after election day Sinema was only 1 percent ahead in Maricopa. So it makes sense that the past couple of days have counted precincts favorable to Sinema.

    In short I think this is going to close. But whether it closes enough for McSally is the open question.

  804. Cash Cow TM says:

    Cow is down here if FL looking for ballots.

    Walt called me to say he jumped his wife twice today.

    I cogratulated him…then he told me he did NOT jump her THAT way. It was her car battery.

  805. Cash Cow TM says:

    Digging around in the back yard of the Broward county (FL) Dem. headquarters.

    Found 3 vans buried in the back yard full of ballots from the 2000 election.

  806. Marv says:

    Final Score:

    Army 31
    Lafayette 17

  807. Waingro says:

    Senema lead down to 18K

  808. RB says:

    Snipes to be named new head coach at Lehigh

    …Bitter endorses

  809. Bitterlaw says:

    Army must suck if they couldn’t shut out Lafayette.

  810. Messy says:

    They have limos in France. The President refuses to honor any of the dead of WWI due to a light rain.

    He came all that way for nothing. He might well go home.

  811. Robbie says:

    Trump lead the party to a wipeout all over the place, but remember only he can put together a winning coalition in 2020 according to someone here.

    Josh Kraushaar

    If Rs don’t hold any seats in Orange County, that would mean just 4/25 House Rs left in Clinton districts: Fitzpatrick, Hurd, Valadao, and John Katko. And 3/4 ran against abysmal D challengers.

    A near-total wipeout.

  812. ReadyFirst says:

    828. Marv, glad you’re coming around to my way of thinking. 831. Bitter, GFY.

  813. ReadyFirst says:

    Pretty sure Lafayette has Bobbie Boucher playing for them. He’s tough!

  814. RB says:

    The Katko district NY-24 was a supise win in 2014 and a suprise hold in 2016… this like MN-8 has drifted and probably fallen to the GOP

  815. RB says:

    Speaking of shifting districts NJ-2 (VanDrew) should have won that much bigger…The GOP will actually put up a challanger in 2020

  816. DW says:

    NY_24 has not shifted to the GOP. Katko is just an excellent politician who knows how to win.

  817. Bitterlaw says:

    Ready – I was graduated from Lafayette in 1990. I know the football team sucks. Both can be true.

  818. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    In San Diego, a city that was formerly dominated by Republicans, two incumbent Republican city council members were defeated by Democrats. The Democrats now hold 5 of the 7 city council seats. It had nothing to do with Trump; it was caused by the sorry state of a California Republican Party which is run by special interests. They have alienated former Republican voters.

    The demographics of Orange County are changing; this does not mean that Republicans cannot win. Asians in San Diego and Orange Counties often vote Republican along with Anglos. A large chuck of Hispanics do too. But the Republican Party is imploding in California because of its own incompetence. The fact a candidate was nominated for governor who was a recent arrival in California, and had a history of losing elections in other states, shows how bad it is now. The death of the Republican Party in California is from a self-inflicted wound.

  819. ReadyFirst says:

    You’re good B. I had to bust on ya! ;).

  820. Tina says:

    Schweikart is an idiot. The Rs sued and then they came together and settleD, allowing for votes to be fixed. I linked to all of that yesterday. Thus, everybody’s vote is counted.

    R counties were not allowing fixes past Election Day, while D counties were allowing it up to 5 days past the election.

    Garret, the Az Guy on Twitter, is better on Az than Schewiekart.

  821. Marv says:

    Final Score:

    Army 31
    Lafayette 13

  822. ReadyFirst says:

    Perfect night for the jacuzzi. Scott and Desantis are ahead. Dems will not win this time. Suck it Gillum. Sorry, no link.

  823. Tina says:

    “Pam Bondi’s only job as Florida AG is to appear on Hannity.”

  824. ReadyFirst says:

    Am I correct in understanding only Floridians like Marv and I have perfect 78 degree weather tonight?

  825. ReadyFirst says:

    Under no circumstances should Pam become US AG. Nice person, but that position is WAY beyond her capabilities.

  826. Test says:

    Ip Test


  827. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    “Pima and Mohave have posted to the state(AZ).Awaiting Maricopa dump.—AZ Guru

    McSally behind by 24,000 votes.

  828. Marv says:

    Pam Bondi has no place to go for awhile. President Trump probably won’t appoint her to AG.

    DeSantis, Rubio and Scott are young men and are secure in their positions for several years to come

  829. Marv says:


    Pima and Mohave done yet?

  830. Marv says:

    Final Score:

    Air Force 41
    New Mexico 24

  831. ReadyFirst says:

    N1 Marv!

  832. Frank says:

    28688 enema

  833. Victrc says:


    What is left. Any hope for McSally. How odd that Ohio is going to be closer than Nevada and we lose Arizona buy gain Florida

  834. RB says:

    Read somewhere that OH is shifting to the GOP like VA shifted away. DeWine is as milqutost as you get but only lost Mohonig by about 10 and kept Trumball close..he one the other NE counties around Cayahuga…the Dems need to run it up in NE OH to win

  835. Tina says:

    The AZ Data Guru
    Arizona Outstanding ballot estimate 11/10 5:35PM Apache: 200 Cochise: 650 Coconino: 9.6k La Paz: 576 Maricopa: 198k Navajo: 1k Pima: 36.3k Pinal: 21.6k State of Arizona: 268k

  836. Marv says:

    #854 ReadyFirst,

    How goes it for you today?

    Any chance we pull the FL Ag Commissioner seat out of the fire?

  837. Scooterboy says:

    Question for the HHR Florida posters.
    On a scale of 0-10, how comfortable are you in predicting we hold Florida Gov/Senate in a recount?

  838. ReadyFirst says:

    Scooter. A 9. We hold. Too much to overcome.

  839. Robbie says:

    Wait a minute. I was told the results from the suburbs were no biggie.

    David M. Drucker

    Karl Rove sounds the alarm about GOP losses in the suburbs

  840. Marv says:

    #861 Scooterboy

    10…… not cheerleading, just the hard math, besides that our lawyers are just as good as their lawsyers.

  841. ReadyFirst says:

    Marv, I think Caldwell’s only chance is if Broward votes after Election Day were thrown out and I do t feel great about those odds. The inside scoop seemed to read that Scott and Desantis were willing to throw Caldwell under the bus which I fully understand. We’re playing the big leagues now and while Ag commissioner is important it’s nothing compared to Gov and Senate.

    Caveat that, perhaps he could make up enough from the military ballots also but I think a lot of those are already factored in.

  842. Tina says:

    Marv, where is Pam Biondi.

  843. ReadyFirst says:

    864. Marv. Ours are better. I think Scott is doing a good job now about shaping the narrative and creating a sense of inevitability. Two court wins already. Suck it Nelson! Did I mention he’s been my Rep since the 70s, ugh!

  844. ReadyFirst says:

    When Jimmy Buffett was topping the charts with Margritaville in 1977, Bill Nelson was in the Fl house.

  845. ReadyFirst says:

    860. Also, Marv, life is good. We live in paradise. Hope all is good for you too my brother in arms. Happy Veterans Day. Thank you for your service!

  846. sane_voter says:


    Too many votes. If it gets really nasty, some of the Broward and Palm Beach votes could get thrown out due to the irregularities.

  847. John says:

    Poop. Sinema just extended her lead to over 28,000…0.0..0.149.730.6j2……0….1..gws-wiz.gHXUm_OcyAc

  848. Just Fill Out The Census says:


    On a scale of 1-10, Scott is at a “5.” If there is a “machine error” in Broward, Scott is FINISHED!

  849. ReadyFirst says:

    The McSally election truly bothers me. You have a genuine war hero, who was risking her life at the same time Sinema was providing aid and comfort to the enemy by telling Americans to join their cause. Nelson is just a dopey democrat, Sinema is something else. Sinema still ranks above Jane Fonda, but….I can only hope McSally pulls this out, never quit!!! This has really been bothering me with Veterans Day upcoming.

  850. John says:

    Sinema’s campaign “Miracopa County, home of Phoenix, disclosed nearly 68,000 new votes on Saturday”.…0.0..0.149.730.6j2……0….1..gws-wiz.gHXUm_OcyAc

  851. Waingro says:

    “Wait a minute. I was told the results from the suburbs were no biggie.”

    Yeah the MAGA spinning of this talking point has been getting quieter as more data and results come in.

  852. John says:

    Don’t live in Arizona…but how does the GOP in Arizona let this happen without reaction. And how does the Arizona GOP not prepared. Where is the Arizona GOP?

  853. Paul says:

    It’s called counting the votes. They let it happen because it’s the law.

  854. Phil says:


    Has Beto caught up yet?

  855. Wes says:

    Karl Rove sounds the alarm about GOP losses in the suburbs

    That might be the smartest thing Rove has ever said.

  856. John says:

    68,000 new votes just discovered?
    Not form me but from The Hill.

  857. ReadyFirst says:

    Yeah, count’em all like this, huh Paul? That mantra is lame, try again cause nobodies buying that BS.

  858. Waingro says:

    #879, yup. People saying to ignore the suburbs are acting like Frank Drebin:

  859. Paul says:

    It’s called counting the votes. They let it happen because it’s the law.

  860. ReadyFirst says:

    It’s called manufacturing the votes. They don’t let it happen because it’s the law.

  861. Phil says:

    Look, folks. Arizona was a huge disappointment. Just be glad Democrats we’re not able to pull off the theft in Florida. It wasn’t for lack of trying. They sure as hell gave it their best shot.

    We will now will have 53 senators in the senate and we can confirm dozens of judges over the two years. Not a damn thing Democrats can do about it either. The House won’t help them one bit. Full steam ahead, boys.

  862. Cash Cow TM says:

    Dems are posting on Facebook that:

    So why is the Senate in GOP control?

  863. ReadyFirst says:

    Great post Phil! Two years is a lifetime in politics and we can accomplish a lot in those two years. Hopefully Reps focus on those suburban voters during this time. And let’s not forget, the democrat lunacy will be on full display, as will their presidential candidates.

  864. ReadyFirst says:

    887. Cow, apparently total yardage is more important to Democrats than points.

  865. Tina says:

    So why is the Senate in GOP control?

    Muh Russians?

  866. ReadyFirst says:

    Former Lt Gov. Kottkamp:
    Jeff Kottkamp
    “The election for Governor of Fla now goes to a machine recount statewide. Because the machines are tested before elections there is no reason to expect the numbers to change significantly. There will be no manual recount and Ron DeSantis will be the next Governor of Fla. #sayfie”

    I’m looking forward to a second Gillum concession speech.

  867. Marv says:

    #889 Cow

    7,139,639 votes were cast for the two Dem Senate candidates on the ballot in CA. A Republican was not on the ballot.

  868. ReadyFirst says:

    892. Marv, so you’re saying about 1million more people voted in FL than in CA, wow!

  869. Bitterlaw says:

    Thank you to all those who served in the military.

    I hope Walt will a few words about his experience in the Great War.

  870. Tina says:

    Hmm, “found ballots” in the Ga Governors race.

  871. Tina says:

    According to Erick Erickson, those 5000 plus ga ballots were provisionals that cannot be counted. (Person not registered, signature issues, no I’d, etc.). The time to fix those ballots expired.

  872. marc says:

    Florida Recount 2.0

    18 years after the nationals eyes turn to Florida for a recount, those eyes are once again upon this state. Today is the second day of the recount, since some counties like Miami-Dade, Orange, Duval and Pinnelas counties started yesterday counting votes to meet the Thursday 3 pm deadline. GOP lawyers and monitors are in each of Florida 67 counties to make sure that the recount is lawful and ethical, a massive 150 member team has be deployed to Broward and Palm Beadh for extra coverage in those corrupt counties, all together Scott/DeSantis have 7,500 lawyers and volunteers scattered across this state. The RNC is also in the state to lend help. This is of course expensive, so if you can please Senators to either the Scott or DeSantis campaigns.

  873. sane_voter says:

    Just seeing that Broward SoE went into the Broward jail back in July to register criminals waiting to be tried, including Nickolas Cruz, the Parkland shooter.

    Shows you the Dem priorities down here.

  874. sane_voter says:

    Broward SoE employees

  875. sane_voter says:


  876. Messy says:

    887. Because the Senate is an international body based on states and not human population. Some states have ten times the population of others.

    But y’all knew that.

    898. Yeah, every citizen over the age of 18 should have their votes counted. Isn’t that horrible.

    895. Those ballots were hidden by the Republicans. We’re talking rigging by them, not the Democrats.

  877. Messy says:

    886. The Democrats didn’t try to steal anything. You know that.

  878. Wes says:

    You’re too goddamn stupid for this board, Messy.

    1) The Senate is an intranational body—not an international one.

    2) We have no parliamentary system, so which side gets more of the overall vote is moot. Only which side holds more seats matters.

    3) Every citizen over 18 meeting the legal requirements for voting like residency and registration should be able to vote.

    4) The Republicans hid no ballots. The Dems manufactured them.

    5) Dems are currently breaking state law in trying to steal two statewide races. Fortunately Republicans saw what was happening and intervened with the clearly written law backing them.

  879. Wes says:

    By the way, Messy Moron, if Dems were doing so great in 2014 before Ebola hit, why did Nate Silver say the GOP would win the Senate the day before the Ebola announcement?

  880. Phil says:

    We are all more stupid after reading Messy’s latest.

  881. Bitterlaw says:

    Messy really thinks Republicans hid Democrat ballots? I didn’t know there were Republicans in Broward County. Maybe the Koch brothers hired Russians to hide the ballots.

  882. RB says:

    In the 4 largest states the GOP has control over 4/8 seats…Dems love to argue GOP only wins the small states

    I think the next 4 are PA-IL-GA-OH again these split 4-4

  883. Bitterlaw says:

    Just watched a show on The Military Channel. It is called Honor Deferred. It tells the story of black service members who were not awarded because the recommendations were denied or their commanding officers recommended lower level awards because they knew the Medal of Honor would not be awarded to blacks.

    The re-evaluation of cases began in 1991 under GHWB. The Medals were awarded in a WH ceremony by Bill Clinton. Sadly, several recipients were killed during the war. A few died before the ceremony. One received his Medal in person. Very moving.

    In a rare act of praise for a Democrat, I thank President Truman for desegregating the military. I also thank him for the decision to nuke Japan. If he had not done so, my dad would have gone to invade Japan and I might not be here.

  884. Marv says:

    Happy Veterans Day to all US military veterans and their families.

  885. Marv says:


    General Eisenhower’s decision to let the Russians be the ones to capture Berlin saved thousands of American lives.

    The Battle of Berlin was brutal.

  886. jason says:

    General Eisenhower’s decision to let the Russians be the ones to capture Berlin saved thousands of American lives.”

    Eishenhower’s stupid decision to give half of Europe to the Russians uncontested was responsible for the Cold War and cost the US trillions of dollars and kept millions of people under bondage for decades.

    I have zero respect for the man, he was worse than Neville Chamberlain as far as being weak and naive.

  887. BayernFan says:

    My dad survived the Battle of Berlin….in Berlin.

  888. Dylan says:

    Apropos of nothing—Rick Scott is really not that impressive of a public speaker. He seems to be a competent governor but he’s no oratorical wonder. My reaction to him appearing on Fox News this morning.

  889. Marv says:


    My opinion of Gov Scott’s oratorical skills is about the same as yours, particularly as it relates to the Broward Count vote irregularities. He is a good governor and delivered effective oratory and displayed good management skills during times of state emergencies.

    He will make a fine Senator and will likely polish up his speech
    delivery skills on the Senate floor. Basically, that’s all they do up there is talk.

    Now, President Trump, on the other hand, was very effective in his comments about Broward County, he simply said…..~’the b*stards in Broward County cheated.’

  890. Dylan says:

    Good morning Marv–glad someone else had the same take away as I did re Scott–agreed that speaking on senate floor will result in improvements.

    I similarly found the guy that ran against Manchin needed a little more polish too, as did the guy running against Tester. I have to think if both if them had been better speakers, the GOP might have been able to capture those seats

    Trump is the all time best communicator of short pithy ideas but many are turned off by his demeanor and bluntness.

    I really hope the GOP can have a really big self-examination in the next year and run really great candidates next time around.

  891. Walt says:


    Which great war are you wanting me to give my
    Personal thoughts and recollection?

    WW I was a great war, but so were the
    Napoleanic Wars, Athens v. Sparta, the

  892. Bitterlaw says:

    Good point, Walt. Did you fight on the side of the Neanderthals or the Cro Magnon?

  893. Cash Cow TM says:

    Sadly it is becoming more and more evident
    that we will never see a 2.0 version of Trump that is
    more wise, cicumspect, controlled, unifier, articulate, reasoned, etc. etc. Than was/is the Trump 1.0 we got in 2016.

  894. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    On the Berlin issue, it is important to remember that the Russians bore the major brunt of fighting the Germans in World War II. The Russians were responsible for three-fourths of the German soldiers killed in WWII, and they suffered 90% of allied deaths. The reason we were able to land in Normandy (which my father was part of) was because the Russians had the vast majority of their forces on the Russian front.

    The Russians had millions of troops marching into Germany, and were going into Berlin regardless. In Berlin they lost about 80,000 dead and about 250,000 wounded. The Americans did not have the ability to veto the Russian attack, and logistically it would have been very hard for the Americans to have gotten there before the Russians. Then what? While tens of thousands of American soldiers died in Berlin, would we have still insisted that the Russians soldiers stay out? The allies had already accepted the fact the Russians would take Berlin. believed it also had been acknowledged at Yalta.

  895. dblaikie says:

    Jason, The Third Armored (Spearhead Division) was order to stop at Dessau on the Elbe and waited for the Russians to meet them. They could have been in Berlin well before the Russians. I agree with you. That basically caused the Cold War.

  896. Marv says:


    You are correct. The Yalta Conference (aka The Crimean Conference) in Feb 1945 was where in Allies determined post-war national boundaries. The German capital of Berlin was to be divided among the four Allied Powers…..the US, UK, USSR, and France.

    Eisenhower’s decision to let the Russians fight for Berlin was appropriate. He said later that he saw no need to have Americans die in the fight for Berlin if we were going to have to give part of it back to Russians anyway.

  897. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    918. “Sadly it is becoming more and more evident
    that we will never see a 2.0 version of Trump that is more wise, cicumspect, controlled, unifier, articulate, reasoned, etc. etc. Than was/is the Trump 1.0 we got in 2016.”

    Sadly, your right. Trump 2.0, given his economic and other successes, might be a popular figure now. Bill Clinton, after major losses in his first midterm elections, managed to adapt and reinvent himself; he was comfortably reelected and the Democrats did fairly well in his second midterm election. By contrast, Trump is still in his mud hole; he does not appear to have the ability to learn and politically grown.

  898. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    921. Marv, totally agree with you.

  899. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    920. “… The Third Armored (Spearhead Division) was order to stop at Dessau on the Elbe and waited for the Russians to meet them.”

    Sure, they should have gone charging into Berlin to face a buzz saw of over 750,000 German soldiers. The Russian, Ukrainian and Polish soldiers that took Berlin consisted of over two million troops.

  900. Marv says:


    The Cold War was inevitable after Yalta and General Eisenhower has nothing to do with the decisions made there.

    The Third Armored Division could have entered Berlin first, but American lives would have been sacrificed needlessly, given the fact that we would have had to give part of the city back to the the Russians anyway

    That was Ike’s primary consideration is ordering a halt to an attack on Berlin. A lot of families back in the USA were happy about that.

  901. Marv says:

    Also, President Truman’s decision to nuke both Hiroshima and Nagasaki was entirely appropriate. There would have been catastrophic casualties on both sides had the US been forced to execute Operation Olympic and Opeartion Coronet.

    (It’s refreshing to take a break from the election fraud discussion)

    lisab……where are you on the Eisenhower/Battle of Berlin controversy?

  902. ReadyFirst says:

    920. dblaike giving propers to my unit, I love it! At the time, 1st BDE, 3AD, the “ReadyFirst” Brigade, was the largest mechanized Brigade in the free world.

  903. ReadyFirst says:

    3rd BDE, 3AD, got Elvis though, so they had that going for them.

  904. Marv says:


    “GI Blues” was actually a pretty good movie.

  905. ReadyFirst says:

    I’m very thankful for those WW2 Spearhead warriors! In 1990, the week before Checkpoint Charlie came down, I got to help tear down some of the Berlin Wall, and experience the joy of German reunification first hand. I had this opportunity because of the sacrifices those Veterans before me made. It was and still is very humbling.

  906. ReadyFirst says:

    Yes it was Marv. We need more Elvis’ in this world again.

  907. Marv says:


    I was stationed in West Berlin once and had a couple of occasions to “visit” East Berlin. Pretty depressing place.

  908. Marv says:

    Plan to watch “The DI” on my Blu-ray player so I’ll be off the air for awhile.

  909. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    926. “Also, President Truman’s decision to nuke both Hiroshima and Nagasaki was entirely appropriate.”

    Agree. Always find it hypocritical that the U.S. is often criticized for dropping the atomic bombs, but the butchery the Japanese committed is not talked about. Examples such as Nanjing and Wake Island come to mind.

  910. Bitterlaw says:

    America taking Berlin would not have prevented the Cold War. The Red Army owned Eastern Europe already. If Jason thinks Stalin would have said, “Damn. Ike got Berlin. Order our troops back to Moscow and schedule free elections.” he is just wrong. If he thinks the American people would support a war against Uncle Joe to push the Reds back into the Soviet Union, he is also wrong.

  911. dblaikie says:

    ReadyFirst, My Dad was one of those soliders at Dessau. He was a proud member of the 36th Armored Infantry Regiment of the 3rd Armored. He was not part of the Normandy Campaign, where the 3rd Armored, 2nd Armored and 1st Infantry (Big Red One) broke the German line at St. Lo (thousands of lives lost). But he came in as a replacement and took part in the Siegfried Line Campaign, Battle of the Bulge, and on to the end. I am very proud to be his son! He won a Bronze Star and Silver Star during his time in the Armored Infantry. And until the day he died he was proud to be a part of the Spearhead Division.

  912. BayernFan says:

    He was picked up in Poland where he was waiting to be picked up by a New Jersey Presbyterian to travel to the US. Spent a few years in a labor camp, then escaped to Berlin, got some papers, and spent the rest of the war there. Being Ukrainian he got the hell out of there and went to Munich and hooked up with the Amis.

  913. ReadyFirst says:

    936. Dblaike. It’s an honor to be on the same blog with your father’s son. The Silver Star is an incredible award and says tons about who your father was, I’m very sorry for your loss.

    I was the Battalion S2 for 3-36 IN, the “Bayonet” BN. 36 IN REG had an honored and amazing unit history, and it was because of people like your father. If your father was in 3-36 IN, you might be interested to know the unit motto was “Deeds, not Words”. Personally, I am exceptionally appreciative of your father because some of the things I got to celebrate in my life were there because of people like your father. Thank you!

  914. ReadyFirst says:

    Marv, thank you again for your service and happy Veterans Day!

    East Germany was indeed one of the most depressing places I’ve been to. I wish all our youth would get the opportunity to see what we saw. All this talk about Socialism/Communism would be out the window. This is why I fear for our country when I see hero’s like LTC McSally struggle against degenerates like Sinema.

  915. Cash Cow TM says:


    Just great that you had to mention military veterans in past wars and ask Walt about his personal war time experiences.

    Now I have to endure Walt raising his shirt and dropping his drawers to show me all his battle scars.

    so far, he is up to the Peloponnesian wars

  916. BayernFan says:

    He was in the International Refugee Organization, and then with the 7050th Air Force Intelligence Squadron with Operation WRINGER. Interviewed lots of returning German POWs and defectors from the East.

  917. dblaikie says:

    Readyfirst Thank you for your kind words. But all the honor goes to all of those through the decades who were there in a fox hole or walking behind a tank when Country called. My Dad died passed away during Desert Storm. In my last conversation with he predicted that once again the 3rd would be at the tip of spear. And they were!

  918. ReadyFirst says:

    BF. Thank you for all the sacrifices made by your father. He sounds like a very strong person to have made it through Berlin.

  919. dblaikie says:

    Ready, One more observation. Neither the 3rd Armored nor the 2nd Armored (Hell on Wheels) get the recognition they deserve for what they accomplished in WW2.

  920. dblaikie says:

    BF Your Dad must’ve been an amazing man. But after all they were all members of “the greatest generation.”

  921. BayernFan says:

    Ready…. yeah he endured Stalin and Hitler…. he must have had skills to survive all that and get to America. Learned a lot of languages along the way.

  922. BayernFan says:

    He was naturalized as an American citizen in Chicago in 1957.

  923. BayernFan says:

    yeah my mom was German… she was in the “Girl Scouts”, if you know what I mean. some stories they had.

  924. BayernFan says:

    Her’s one from my mom… A week or so after Munich fell my mother and grandmother were walking to the market to see what was available. On the way they ran into a neighbor woman who was returning from market and they began talking. After they bemoaned their circumstances the neighbor lady said “Well at least the boys will be coming home now”. What do you mean? asked my grandmother. The neighbor lady replied, “Well haven’t you heard? The war is over!” My grandmother, ever one for biting sarcasm, retorted, “Oh yah?? Who won?”?

  925. BayernFan says:

    I can’t figure out how my maternal grandfather, who was in the 16th Army, avoided the Courland Peninsula, but he did.

  926. phoenixrisen says:

    Rick Scott files complaints against Broward and Palm Beach counties requesting state sheriffs to impound voting machines not being used in recount and to throw out votes that came in post Election night that was in violation of Florida law.

    Scott isn’t fooling around here. Completely agree with this and he’ll win this.

  927. lisab says:

    lisab……where are you on the Eisenhower/Battle of Berlin controversy?

    it was a mistake to let the soviets take eastern europe

    but hindsight is 20/20

    and it would have cost a lot of lives on both sides.

    however, that was the time to do it. we would have dominated the air after a few weeks

  928. Messy says:

    906. If you look at the post, I was talking about Georgia, not Florida. The Republicans were doing the vote-rigging, not the Democrats. NO ONE was doing vote rigging in Florida.

  929. Marv says:


    The Russians overran Eastern Europe and then Yalta Agreement allowed them to keep it.

    The discussion up-thread dealt with Ike’s decision not to attack Berlin, but to let the Russians capture the city.

    I support Ike’s decision, no sense losing America lives for no reason.

  930. Messy says:

    903-905. Okay, let’s go over it again. Prior to the Civil War, the United States of America (notice the name, not Fredonia or Columbia or anything like that….) It’s was an international organization. The Senate represented the membership of the Union of sovereign states. Sort of like the European Union. It was the “United States ARE” not, as is today, “The United States IS.” Get it?

    The Constitution needs to be ratified, not by a national referendum, but by the legislatures of the member states (three quarters of them), just as like amendments to the EU treaty. Yes, the constitution is a TREATY between fifty different republics called states.

    Wes told two fibs:

    4) The Republicans hid no ballots. The Dems manufactured them.

    5) Dems are currently breaking state law in trying to steal two statewide races. Fortunately Republicans saw what was happening and intervened with the clearly written law backing them.

    AS to 5), no laws were broken, and the Florida bureau of investigation investigated and found such. it was all on the up and up.

    As to 4), Not a single ballot was found to be manufactured.

    3) Every citizen over 18 meeting the legal requirements for voting like residency and registration should be able to vote.

    The (now former) Secretary of State of Georgia, has been actively trying to prevent those people who did EXACTLY what you say is required from voting. What the Republicans are demanding is that valid ballots from qualified voters NOT be counted.

  931. Marv says:

    BOOM…..Pam Bondi orders an investigation by the FDLE into vote counting fraud in Broward and Palm Beach Counties.$file/Letter+to+Swearingen.pdf

  932. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    Nelson’s lawyer says it’s definitely a machine error and after everything is recounted Nelson will lead by a small margin. I believe they will find whatever votes they need.

    Also, Nelson’s lawyer is probably in my opinion going to sue for the machine recount deadline of Thursday to be extended as Palm Beach County has already said there is no way they can finish their recount in time by Thursday. I believe if this suit is filed, it will be successful.

    Third, there are more than 10K vote by mail votes that were rejected due to either a missing or non-matching signature. It would not surprise me if Nelson sued to have these votes re-examined and included.

    Fourth, I also believe Nelson, IMO, will sue to have the overseas ballot deadline date of 11/16 extended.

    Either way you slice it, Nelson just has to keep pursuing his legal options and suing. If he does this, he will WIN!!!! And that’s the way it should be lol.

  933. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Joel Kotkin had a good article on the importance of the Republican Party in California attracting the Asian vote:

    “Despite improved earnings by lower-wage workers, Republicans remain in serious trouble in Latino and African-American communities. Simply put, a competitive California needs a racial realignment that adds to the shrinking base of white GOP voters. The best target for that goal is the Asian community, the state’s fastest-growing and arguably most successful ethnic group. Asians may be repelled by Trump’s immigration rhetoric, but they tend to be middle-class homeowners who care about schools and safety, and they won’t be happy if the Democrats move further left in terms of seizing zoning policy from communities or feeding the public sector with ever more middle-class taxes.

    Southern California Republicans have worked hard to appeal to Asian voters; there are three Asian-American assembly members, two state senators, and three supervisors (out of five total), all Republicans. A highlight yesterday was the election of Young Kim in a northern Orange County congressional district. Asians now make up about 20 percent of Orange County residents, and Asian Republicans are common. They seem to be able to win in districts where Trump is unpopular. It’s hard to run on a racism charge against someone born in Incheon.

    The question is where this potential white-Asian alliance is going. Michelle Steele, the politically aggressive supervisor in Orange County, where the board is majority-Asian, is considering a run for statewide office. If Republicans can pull Asians away from the Democrats, at least at the local level, they could restore a semblance of political competition in the state.”

  934. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    Im waiting for Broward Ckunty and Marc Elias to find the MACHINE ERROR

  935. Marv says:


    None of that will happen.

  936. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    I feel like Jerry Maguire as I watch the recount in my state. I am yelling at the tv “SHOW ME THE MACHINE ERRORRRR! YEAHHH WOOOOO.”

  937. marc says:

    A lot of fake news and fantasy in that last post. Must be a libot freak.

    Recount Update:

    It’s been a long day but the recount in my County St John is about 20% done, the SOE is decided of to call it a night at either 7 or 9 pm.

    Some of you have ask where AG Pam Bondi is, well this evening she issued an order that the FDLE, conduct a through investigation into all allegations of criminal fraud and misdoings in Palm Beach and Broward County.

    The Scott campaign also secured another victory when a judge imposed sanctions against both Broward and Palm Beach SOE for not complying with an early order.

  938. Marv says:

    #962 marc

    Thanks. Check #956.

  939. marc says:

    Don’t feed the troll people, the libs are upset that there attempt to steal an election will be stopped by Republicans who control all of Florida

  940. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    How am a I a troll if I want EVERY vote counted? Nelson should and will do whatever it takes to get every vote in regardless of whether it was stuck at a postal facility or not.

    And that’s the way it should be. The people have chosen Nelson. Why can’t Scott get a grip on himself?

    That’s the real question her. Tricky Ricky needs to control himself.

  941. marc says:

    Tommrow I’ll be a poll watcher in Duval then next county to mine where Jacksonville is located. Reports from there is things are moving smoothly.

  942. marc says:

    The law is clear is Palm Beach can’t finish sit machine recount by the lawful date, it’s orginal return to the SOS will stand.

  943. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    Pam Bondi is a joke. I saw her in public once while I was out to dinner and a few drinks. She is a lot uglier up close-just like her legal practices.

  944. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    It is starting to look like Mia Love has a chance to pull off the win in Utah4. If she makes it, hope Trump will call and congratulate her.

  945. Phil says:

    The people have chosen Nelson?

    You must be looking at the 2012 returns. LOL

  946. marc says:

    The Democrats and it’s media hacks are desperate to call this wave yet they have done worse than Republicans in. 2014, 2010 and in 1994.

    This was a weak showing for Dems on par with 2006, and the fact that they have to spin it tell you all you need to know

  947. marc says:

    Speaking of Nelson he’s been virtually invisible, like his 18 year career in the Senate. Enjoy your forced retirement Mr. Magoo.

  948. Marv says:


    Thanks for the updates.

    Which court imposed the sanctions on Broward and Palm Beach? What were they.

  949. phoenixrisen says:

    Marc, got a link so we can see what sanctions were imposed?

  950. Paul says:

    Just count the votes! Why does the GOP against that. Makes no sense.

  951. Wes says:

    903-905. Okay, let’s go over it again. Prior to the Civil War, the United States of America (notice the name, not Fredonia or Columbia or anything like that….) It’s was an international organization. The Senate represented the membership of the Union of sovereign states. Sort of like the European Union. It was the “United States ARE” not, as is today, “The United States IS.” Get it?

    The Constitution needs to be ratified, not by a national referendum, but by the legislatures of the member states (three quarters of them), just as like amendments to the EU treaty. Yes, the constitution is a TREATY between fifty different republics called states.

    Wes told two fibs:

    4) The Republicans hid no ballots. The Dems manufactured them.

    5) Dems are currently breaking state law in trying to steal two statewide races. Fortunately Republicans saw what was happening and intervened with the clearly written law backing them.

    AS to 5), no laws were broken, and the Florida bureau of investigation investigated and found such. it was all on the up and up.

    As to 4), Not a single ballot was found to be manufactured.

    3) Every citizen over 18 meeting the legal requirements for voting like residency and registration should be able to vote.

    The (now former) Secretary of State of Georgia, has been actively trying to prevent those people who did EXACTLY what you say is required from voting. What the Republicans are demanding is that valid ballots from qualified voters NOT be counted.

    This just proves Messy is literally the STUPIDEST MOTHERF UCKER ever to post on HHR.

    The Constitution originally was a document intended to form a cohesive unit out of the former British colonies (sans Vermont) that had successfully left the British Empire in 1783. Each state that ratified the Constitution in 1787 became a part of the newly christened United States of America. Whether they retained a certain amount of autonomy or not is irrelevant. They joined a country, thus making the resulting Congress composed of the Senate and House of Representatives INTRANATIONAL (meaning between parts of a nation) rather than INTERNATIONAL (between different countries).

    Regarding Florida, you must have missed the part where a DEMOCRAT filmed the Broward County election officials tampering with ballots.

    Now what the GASOS has to do with Florida, I have no flipping idea, but Brian Kemp was purging people who had either died (this becoming ineligible to vote outside Chicago) or failed to respond to requests for updated voter information after failing to vote within a certain number of elections. God forbid inactive voters who don’t verify they’re still interested in voting after skipping three elections should’ve purged from the rolls. Kemp must be Satan incarnate to do that.

    You really are a stupid sonofabitch who brings the average IQ on this blog down considerably when you posted your mindless drivel.

  952. Wes says:

    Paul, I realize you’re too brainwashed to be able to understand this, but Republicans are against counting FRAUDULENT votes a DEMOCRAT filmed the Broward County Board of Elections manufacturing.

    It makes perfect sense.

  953. Paul says:

    33,000 lead for Sinema.

  954. Paul says:

    Wes is a very special stupid sonofabitch. Go f^ck yourself.

  955. Phil says:

    Arizona almost certainly gone. Fortunately, so is Nelson.

    Nice try Snipes. You got balls, woman, but you were stopped butt cold.

    53-47 in the senate. Judges. Confirm away, boys.

  956. Paul says:

    Tucker Carlson is so stupid. He pays to have his own house protested. Ridiculous stunt backfired on his ass.

  957. Phil says:

    No, Paul. Stupid is claiming the other night that Cruz’s lead had “shrunk” by half when the final votes had already been counted three days before. We don’t manufacture votes in Texas after 100% of the precincts are already counted. I know that is a hard concept for a Democrat to grasp….but try and keep up.

    Maybe you weren’t stupid when you claimed that. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and just pretend you were drunk.

  958. lisab says:

    The Russians overran Eastern Europe and then Yalta Agreement allowed them to keep it.

    The discussion up-thread dealt with Ike’s decision not to attack Berlin, but to let the Russians capture the city.
    if the issue is ONLY letting the russians capture berlin, i think that was fine

    but if the question is the larger issue of letting them keep eastern europe for 50 years, i think we made a mistake

  959. Paul says:

    Most of what I post is sort of a parody. Don’t believe half of what I say because I’m nutz.

  960. Bio mom says:


    Keep a careful eye on the Mississippi special!

  961. marc says:

    Oh yes, the judges. The next two years; especially with Senator McConnell new rules stance on nomination Calendar time the promise should be even easier and with 53/54 votes what Senators Collins and Murkoski think won’t matter b/c without there votes. Trump has 122 current district and circuit level vacancies to confirm

  962. marc says:

    As of November 4, 2018, the United States Senate has confirmed 84 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including 2 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, 29 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals, 53 judges for the United States District Courts, and 0 judges for the United States Court of International Trade.[2] There are currently 57 nominations to Article III courts awaiting Senate action, including 7 for the Courts of Appeals, 48 for the District Courts, and 2 for the Court of International Trade. Hopefully, by the end of the lame duck all nominations will clear the Senate. So the next Congress can start on a fresh batch of vacancies to fill with fresh young conservatives.

  963. MichiganGuy says:

    Senator jokes about sitting ‘front row’ at ‘public hanging’
    Yep, we just lost the Mississippi Senate runoff. We are now down to 52 seats pending Florida. Geez.

  964. Dylan says:

    990–these politicians are so clueless. So utterly clueless.
    Good riddance.

  965. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    986.” Don’t believe half of what I say because I’m nutz.”

    How can we tell, because both halves sound the same??

  966. Phil says:

    Oh, for crying out loud.

    No Republican is losing in Mississippi.


  967. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    895. “but if the question is the larger issue of letting them keep eastern europe for 50 years, i think we made a mistake.”

    You realize that just when Allied forces had broken out of Normandy into the rest of France, Russia had already occupied much of Eastern Europe. In fact Bulgaria and Romania had switched sides, and were now allied with the Russians. If the U.S. had decided that Russia could not keep Eastern Europe, how was it going to get the Russians out?

  968. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    I might go to a public hanging as well. Depends on who the varmit is who is getting hanged. The video did not contain the comment Smith was responding to, and the crowd laughed like it was a response to some sort of jest.

    If that is all it is, Smith’s not going to lose the election. I am tired of liberals who hunt daily for some comment they can be find offensive.

  969. MichiganGuy says:

    Phil says:
    November 11, 2018 at 11:25 pm

    Oh, for crying out loud.

    No Republican is losing in Mississippi.

    Phil, I thought by now you would of wised up. No one would of thought we would lose a Senate seat in Alabama either. We came pretty close to losing a Senate seat in Texas! Beto got 48%! If there is one thing I’ve learned over the past 11 months is no Senate seat is safe.

  970. phoenixrisen says:

    To answer the stupid trolls, if the GOP allows the votes that were submitted post-deadline which are is a violation of law, then the Dems use as a cover to their cheating that the GOP doesn’t want all the votes counted saying that they want to disenfranchise voters. It’s a bunch of BS. You don’t get your final tally by the lawful deadline, too bad for the Dems. Not going to permit cheating by the Dems.

  971. lisab says:

    You realize that just when Allied forces had broken out of Normandy into the rest of France, Russia had already occupied much of Eastern Europe. In fact Bulgaria and Romania had switched sides, and were now allied with the Russians. If the U.S. had decided that Russia could not keep Eastern Europe, how was it going to get the Russians out?

    i am not saying i would not have made the same decision. i am saying it may have been a huge mistake. hindsight is 20/20.

    because we allowed the ussr to for after ww1, perhaps 100 million people have been murdered.

    we had a second chance after ww2.

    yes, they had the infrantry and the tanks, and even a bunch of tactical air, but no fuel. no reserves of anti tank weapons, no ability to feed their troops.

    we did not attack, and the result was a communist china, the korean war, the vietnam war, a divided middle-east …

    and 30,000 nuclear warheads.

    from a practical point of view, maybe we should have folled churchill.

    he was a bastard. but he was our bastard.

  972. GF says:

    Diamond Jim?

  973. Brandon says:

    #837. State Senator Chris Brown would be a good candidate to run against Van Drew.

  974. dblaikie says:

    I am enjoying the give and back of the discussion about WW2. The truth is that the conference in Yalta was a defeat for the USA and Britain. FDR was sick man and Stalin road over him like steam roller. Churchill, who always knew that its influence was dwindling, could do nothing to stop it. A strong FDR would have demanded free and fair elections for all of Eastern Europe monitored by all the Allied powers together. We had the troops and the leverage to make that happen. And a strong FDR would have demanded that all the Allied powers would occupy Eastern Europe to monitor and protect the new Governments just elected.

  975. Wes says:

    RIP Douglas Rain, the voice of HAL 9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

  976. Todd McCain says:

    12% of Arizona GOP voting for Sinema really blows my mind still. How does any Republican vote for someone like Sinema?

  977. Tina says:

    BREAKING: Hillary Clinton Will Run Again – WSJ reports

    This is the best news since we won the House.


  978. Tina says:

    12% must be deadenders.

    But which type?

  979. Tina says:

    Looks like boxes of provisional ballots in Broward County were left in a car at Avis.

  980. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Can you explain to us why two of the three Republican Congressmen–Hurd, Cukbertson and Sessions– whom Bush 43 and his family campaigned for in Texas lost if the ex-President retains his beloved and influential status in the State?

    On the other hand, those in the Senate whom Trump45 camplaigned for in the last two weeks of the recent campaign either came from behind to win– Hawley(MO),Braun(IN), Scott(FL) and Craemer(ND) or lost their contests by narrower margins than expected–Renaucci(OH), Rosendale(MT) and Morrissey(WV). Of course, Trump45 did not campaign in Arizona and Nevada and the GOP candidates did not do as well as expected.

  981. jason says:

    The Superbowl Champion Eagles lost to Dallas at home?

    Bitter, just step back from that ledge, thank you.

    And are YOU looking at the mirror. I mean, as a fan, have you done all you can do?

    “All of us need to look in the mirror,” Philadelphia coach Doug Pederson said. “Are we doing enough? Are we giving enough? You have to strain yourself to make plays. We didn’t do it. Each person, each coach, each player in the locker room has to look at yourself and decide every day to give your best.”

    “We just didn’t execute,” said Wentz, who finished 32 of 44 for 360 yards with one interception. “We all got to look in the mirror and ask what can we do better.”

  982. Wes says:

    Sheep, while Trump did clearly help some GOP candidates I would be hesitant to attribute wins or losses strictly to him. He barely carried AZ in 2016 and lost NV (taking pretty much every Republican on the ballot down with him in the latter state).

    There clearly isn’t much love for him in either state, and he probably wouldn’t have positively affected the outcomes had he gone to either state.

    Trump helps Republicans in some places and hurts them in others. The Mountain West is a place where he is a clear liability.

  983. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Wes and Others:
    Here is my list of the “low hanging fruit” of Congressional seats recently won by Democrats which should return to the GOP side within the next couple of election cycles”

    VA-2 and 7
    TX-7 and 32
    MN-2 and 3

  984. Tina says:

    Only if the Iggle Felons would have gone to the Wh, things would be different.

  985. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Do you have any thoughts on which States will gain and lose seats, and how many, after the next Census and subsequent re-districting?

  986. Wes says:

    Sheep, I think TX, FL, and NV likely gain seats. NV and MI probably lose. I doubt NC gains another one though it’s not outside the realm of possibility.

    As to how many I’d have to check census information. Tentatively I’d say TX and FL gain two apiece, but beyond that I’m honestly not sure.

  987. Wes says:

    Here’s an interesting tidbit:

    In ND-Sen, Heidi Heitkamp outspent Kevin Cramer by $27 million to $5 million. That’s a margin of 5.4-1. She still lost by almost 12 points. Astounding.

  988. Wes says:

    On RRH, Rdelbov notes several factors in the larger-than-expected GOP losses in the House. He leaves out one catalytic reason: Donald Trump. The President has energized his opposition and caused the suburbs to become Dem leaning just as GWB did.

    That does not bode well for Trump’s re-election. There are not enough people in Trump’s rural base to outvote the suburbs and the big cities.

    Given his behavior post election, Trump seems to have no clue how to stop irritating voters he needs. If this keeps up Dems May just need to show up to win in 2020.

    The nuance of a perennial shoot-from-the-lip President has worn off. For all his accomplishments, Trump can’t make headway because he’s consistently undermining his own support. He needs to change course now, or it’s highly likely the American people will say, “You’re fired!” in 2020.

  989. Wes says:

    I know, I know. Trump fanboys such as BayernFan are going to go out of their way to mock the idea that Trump can be a political liability and may be damaging his standing with the American people by routinely engaging in puerile actions more at home on reality TV than in the Oval Office.

    The thing is that a 40-seat loss in the House is significant . Only Woodrow Wilson (with a House majority overextended by Dem wins in 1910 and 1912) and Warren Harding (facing blowback from Teapot Dome) had such large congressional losses despite strong economies. Trump has nothing approximating either excuse.

    His own actions triggered this. The House Republicans didn’t help themselves with poor decisions like spending $5 million in VA-10 to bolster the sadly doomed Barbara Comstock. Still, Trump was the primary catalyst for Tuesday’s results. His actions since have proved he’s learned nothing.

    Barring a major correction on his part, I expect Trump to be conceding in two years. He hasn’t shown he has any ability to act presidential, and it’s doing serious damage to him and his party.

  990. Tina says:

    I thought Scott canned Sheriff Israel?

    He is now involved in this Fl Mess?

    Btw, Scott was on Faux News and he did not seem very positive.

  991. Todd McCain says:

    100% of the precincts are reporting and Scott is up 13,000 votes. Machine recounts change hundreds of votes, not 13,000.

  992. Messy says:

    The fun starts in January:

    1006. Harold Stassen and Eugene McCarthy were serious candidates during their first three runs. Then they were jokes. I don’t think that Hillary will get that respect on her third try.

    978 Wes: There are NO(!) fraudulent votes. NONE Nada. Zip, Zilch, zee-ro.

    977. Come off it Wes…you know I’m right. I didn’t hear about that video “showing tampering” because there isn’t one…I take it you saw it on InfoWars or some other phony news site.

  993. Tina says:

    Mcsally has less votes that the R candidate for Az Sos.

    She really failed to get out the vote.

  994. Wes says:

    You really are a stupid motherf ucker and a liar, Messy:

    It’s also on YouTube if you’d like me to link to it.

  995. Tina says:

    John Cardillo
    MORE: #Broward GOP State Committeeman Richard DeNapoli got the tip from Avis FLL that someone left boxes marked ”Provisional Ballots” in a rental car. The individual that rented the car was a Broward Sup of Elections employee and a Democrat. Arrests need to be made.
    View details ·

  996. gameboy says:

    #1021….Nobody cares about the machine recount. It’s the hand recount where the official theft will take place.

    #1020….Of course he isn’t positive. The election is being stolen from him in plain sight. There is blatant fraud going on and nobody seems able, or willing to do anything about it.

    Scott’s only hope is to go to a court and have any votes that magically appeared past election night thrown out.

    They are still finding boxes of ballots in car trunks for crying out loud.

  997. lisab says:

    hillary could win against trump

    not sure she can win the nomination against bernie this time. she would still get the superdelegates, but she might get hurt badly for the general if she loses every primary but still gets the nomination due to the supers.

  998. Phil says:

    My hope is that Trump ultimately decides he doesn’t need any more of this and opts not to run again. It would be best for him and best for the Republican Party’s 2020 chances.

  999. Wes says:

    You know the Trumpkins are going to say Trump is not only invincible in 2020 but the only chance Republicans have of winning, Phil.

    This of course ignores the suburban revolt against the GOP catalyzed by Trump. Somehow Trump is going to win when the Dem clobbers him in both the suburbs and the big cities while Trump wins big in relatively sparsely populated rural areas.

    How the President can do that I have no clue, but the Trumpkins will declare it a fait accompli nonetheless.

  1000. NYCmike says:

    “You know the Trumpkins are going to say Trump is not only invincible in 2020 but the only chance Republicans have of winning, Phil.”

    -There is always a 5-15% of the electorate on either side that is ALL-IN, or takes their ball home.

    The majority of us here usually support the Republican candidate for the general election, no matter whom it is.

    WES, the majority of us.

  1001. lisab says:

    trump’s chances depend on who the alternative is

    the dems have a good chance of picking someone with a message of, “we will destroy the middle class, ban guns, and ban freedom of speech if we don’t like your speech”

  1002. Phil says:

    Nikki Haley could win. Outside of her say hello to President Kamala Harris or someone like her. It’s one reason Florida is do important in this senate race and the reason Democrats are going to such ridiculously blatant lengths to steal it. We need a senate 53 – 47 buffer going into 2020. I feel that would hold up especially with the Alabama seat flipping to us almost certainly.

    If Democrats get it to 50-50 the VP breaks the tie. Imagine the damage if the Dems narrowly got control of the Senate and did away with the filibuster (which they would IMO). President Harris, Democratic control of the House and Democratic control of the Senate means they could impose any radical agenda they chose. Hello, open borders for example.

  1003. Albert Hodges says:

    It doesnt make good sense to try and predict 2020 based on 2018 results, anymore than 1982 predicted 1984, 1986 predicted 1988, 1994 predicted 1996 or 2010 predicted 2012.

    No matter if you are a “Trumpkin” or not.

    Just saying.

  1004. BayernFan says:

    Sorry but I’m having a difficult time believing that the crazy tutu woman won Arizona on the up and up.

  1005. Wes says:

    What your statement had to do with anything I typed I have no clue, Mikey.

    Let me make my thoughts clear for your minuscule brain:

    After suffering similar congressional losses in 1994 and 210 respectively, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama shifted gears.

    Clinton began coopting the GOP’s ideals and ran as GOP lite while touting the increasingly solid economy.

    Obama shifted from trying to reshape the country into a leftist utopia into playing to divisions in the electorate so as to cast himself as the savior of his supporters and the bane of their political opponents.

    Meanwhile, Trump responded to Tuesday’s results…by doubling down on being Donald Trump and further providing justification for his middling approval ratings despite his accomplishments as President.

    One of these is not like the others and is unlikely to be successful.

  1006. Wes says:

    Al, I hate to tell you, but a decade ago we had an unpopular GOP President people quit listening to. The disastrous results of 2006 were a precursor to 2008. It makes perfect sense to extrapolate results from election to election because if the same dynamics are in play in one as in the other, the results will be the same.

  1007. Wes says:

    Right on cue, the Trumpkins show up tell us 2020 will be smooth sailing.

  1008. Tina says:

    Well, as difficult as it is, bayer, Mcsally is doing worse than the az sos r candidate and Ducey has over 170000 more votes.

    We need to figure out which deadenders hurt Mcsally.

  1009. NYCmike says:


    I made a comment about ONE LINE of the comment you made.

    You are extremely verbose, and seem to be mightily irritated, this morning.

    Tink giving the child too much attention?

  1010. NYCmike says:

    “Right on cue, the Trumpkins show up tell us 2020 will be smooth sailing.”

    -Can you copy-and-paste which posters said a Trump victory in 2020 “will be smooth sailing”?

  1011. Tina says:

    AZ officially called for Enema.


  1012. NYCmike says:

    I trusted those who said McSally would be the better general election candidate in Arizona…….I’ll wait for those same people to re-evaluate their very strong opinions.

  1013. ReadyFirst says:

    Never underestimate the Dems ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory though Wes. Case in point, 2018. If not for Kavanaugh and the Dem antics, I believe this years election could have been much worse. All they had to do was shake their heads and appear slightly sane. That was apparently a bridge too far for them. Regardless, 2020 will be a tough road, but two years is a lifetime.

  1014. CG says:

    Yeah, Kelli Ward would have won Arizona.

    Go with that..

  1015. NYCmike says:

    -I can’t get much of the article……but it is backed up by the numbers that Mr. Vito cited last week.

  1016. Albert Hodges says:

    Wes, I dont disagree with you regarding Bush and 2006/2008.

    Additionally, I am not saying “on cue” that 2020 is going to be smooth sailing for Trump.

    Trump won in 2016 by the largest electoral college margin for a Republican since 1988. This was PART due to his populist/trade message in the mid-West and his luck of running against one of the most disliked human beings in American political history….the Hildabeast.

    All I am saying is that the elections from last week mean NOTHING regarding the 2020 election.

    So no need to be SNARKY with me, dude, save it for a troll or someone who isnt actually AGREEING with most of your analysis.

  1017. NYCmike says:

    “Yeah, Kelli Ward would have won Arizona.”

    -Did someone say that?

    Where is that comment?

    Otherwise, stop making up b*llsh*t.

  1018. Wes says:

    This is a Facebook message I received from my best friend—an early Trump backer:

    Well when the republicans are losing in areas they should be winning that’s an ominous sign. I read somewhere where no real progressives won, but moderate dems did. Also, Trump’s act is getting tiresome. He needs to reinvent himself because while what he was doing before was refreshing, people want stability now.

    I didn’t edit a word. Some people take a realistic view of the world. Others, like Albert Hodges, think 2020 will be 1984 Redux.

  1019. Tina says:

    She was the best of a sheotty lot,

    Ducey is the best though,

    You have a problem with Mcsalky underperforming.

    Less votes than the az sos r candidate and almost 200k less votes than Ducey,

  1020. NYCmike says:

    “Others, like Albert Hodges, think 2020 will be 1984 Redux.”

    -Odd….but I didn’t interpret what Hodges said in the same manner as Wesley at all…..

  1021. Wes says:

    We’re now blaming this election on a dead man rather than the President with an underwater popularity rating.

    That says it all honestly.

  1022. Phil says:

    1) Trump isn’t running against Hillary again.

    2) the electorate will be 2% less white in 2020 than in 2016. The white vote drops about two percent every four yrs.

    3) I believe Trump will hang on to Iowa and Ohio. That’s not enough.

    4) Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin? Trump won each by very narrow margins – the last three by less than half a percent.

    Facts, folks.

  1023. Tina says:

    Frank Riggs is getting about 19000 less votes than Mcsally for the superintendent of public instruction,

  1024. NYCmike says:

    “She was the best of a sheotty lot,”

    -Exactly, which is why I trusted the people who were all-in on her. I was never convinced that Ward would be the best, so I went with what looked like the better choice, despite a lack of enthusiasm for her across the whole Republican spectrum, for reasons which were backed up by various statements and votes taken through the years.

  1025. Wes says:

    I think Trump can keep FL. As far as WI, MI, and PA, say bye bye.

  1026. CG says:

    McSally’s opponents were Kelli Ward and Joe Arpaio?

    Would they have done better?

    I think Ward would have lost by 10 points and Arpaio would have lost by 20.

    Had the Republican Party not become the Donald Trump Cult of Personality Party, and Jeff Flake not become a leper within the party, he would have held this seat.

    There is a huge division among Arizona Republicans. A significant amount of those who have always supported McCain, who easily held his seat whenever he ran, and who have been willing to support other Republicans such as Gov. Ducey and Jeff Flake in the past (even though Flake was pretty much a rock-ribbed Freedom Caucus type) were turned off by McSally capitulating to Trump in order to win the nomination. She was not able to pivot in time during what is a fairly short general election there. Embracing Trump as tightly as she did was a gamble, and she lost.

    She isn’t “fighting” these results because she has been through this process in Arizona before and knows she has lost. It is also very likely she becomes Arizona’s senior Senator in a few weeks because she will probably be appointed to take over for Jon Kyl. She wil have to run again in 2020. Her attitude towards Trump may change for her next race.

  1027. Tina says:

    The fault lies with Rs that failed to address Healthcare, despite 8 years running on ridding us of obumblercare.

    8 years of lies.

  1028. Tina says:

    Yes, flakey @ 18 percent would win.

  1029. Phil says:

    Agree, Wes.

    We need to have a narrow control of the senate in January, 2021.

  1030. CG says:

    Just remember, for all the criticism of McCain’s thumbs down, he was following the same position as Governor Ducey on that vote. Ducey called on the Senators to vote no.

    McCain did. Flake did not. Nobody on the right gave any credit to Flake anyway.

  1031. Tina says:

    They need to figure out quickly why Mcsally underperformed in her race.

    Despite a popular R governor at top of the ticket.

  1032. Wes says:

    The House passed Obamacare repeal. The Senate did not. House Republicans lost. Senate Republicans won.

    I’m not seeing the correlation given the fault, Tina.

  1033. Tina says:

    Well one thing exits and polls showed healthcare as the number one reason, with the economy at or near bottom.

    It appears that there are some great issues that still need to be addressed


    Illegal immigration.

    A middle class tax cut

  1034. CG says:

    To be technical, McSally would be AZ’s senior Senator come January, if what is expected to happen, happens, and Kyl resigns.

  1035. Tina says:

    They did not get the job done, Wes, despite 8 years of empty promises.

    Healthcare was the number one issue

  1036. Tina says:

    Hopefully, Kyl sits in there longer.

    Mcsally is a bust as a candidate.

    We need Ducey later on.

  1037. Tina says:

    Maybe Kyle can do a Grasley or a Hatch and stay as he gets into the mid to later 70s.

  1038. Wes says:

    Once again, Tina, the House passed repeal while the Senate did not. House Republicans took it on the chin. Senate Republicans did fairly well.

    Is this a situation where we blame one group for the sins of another?

  1039. NYCmike says:

    “We’re now blaming this election on a dead man rather than the President with an underwater popularity rating.”

    -Trump is a given, he has not changed, and probably will not change. He has not done the Republican Party any favors in certain precincts.

    BUT, according to the numbers listed last week by Mr. Vito, the lack of progress by Republicans regarding healthcare (cue “CG” blaming “mean” comments) were the main reason for voting for Democrats, who specifically ran on that topic.

    BOTH can be true. The “thumbs-down” was the legacy moment for SENATOR McCAIN.

  1040. CG says:

    The people who voted on health care clearly had a left-wing position on health care. They wanted Obamacare extended. Many want single payer. The issue has moved to the left. That is a fact.

    It is also a fact that the GOP base, to whatever extent it still exists, turned out to vote in heavy numbers. It cannot be claimed they stayed home.

    To claim that Republicans would have done better with left-leaning voters on healthcare if they would have gotten rid of Obamacare totally is convoluted. The people who do not want any scrutiny on DJT say that as a diversion. The bottom line is that left-wing voters agreed with the Trump when he said Congressional Republicans were “mean” on health care.

  1041. Tina says:

    I saw enough of the polls, information from Vito last week, and the exits, Wes.

    We did nothing on healthcare. Healthcare was the number one issue.

    2006 different, top issues were Bush bungling Iraq, the start of the economy down turning, and illegal immigration.

  1042. CG says:

    For all of McSally’s pro.blems and failu,re this cycle, I do not know who AZ Republ,icans have left at this point who might run better in 2020. Ducey would be one, but now that it looks like Arizona Secretary of State is going to the Democrats, if he leaves office as Governor, a Democrat takes over, so that might change things for him.

    McSally needs the advan,tage of incumbency at this point if she is the candidate in 2020.

  1043. Tina says:

    In 2006, Ds got to the right of liberal Bush on immigration.

    They ran on border enforcement and no amnesty,

    Bush and the Rs ran on amnesty and lawlessness at the border.

  1044. NYCmike says:

    “The people who voted on health care clearly had a left-wing position on health care. They wanted Obamacare extended. Many want single payer. The issue has moved to the left. That is a fact. ”

    -YES, it did, because instead of ripping horrible Obamacare legislation right out, and then debating more effective methods with the help of the free market, voters were stuck with increasing premiums, accusations of neglect by Democrats on Republicans, and a promise of “Medicare For All”, which was never competently shown to be the terrible policy it will be by the Republicans.

  1045. CG says:

    Those who cite “healthcare” as their number one issue in this election are not Republican voters and likely never have been.

    The left was energized. Under Trump, conservatism is suffering. Facts.

  1046. Phil says:

    The issue of healthcare killed us in the suburbs with women. I watched what Lizzie Fletcher did to Culberson in Tx-7. The advertising was brutal.

  1047. Tina says:

    The drat super intent of public instruction got more votes than Mcsally.

  1048. CG says:

    It’s equally preposterous to say that Democrats have ever run to the left of Republicans on immigration.

  1049. CG says:

    Ever *not* run.

    Extremely hard to type in the box when the thread is so long.

  1050. Tina says:

    We got the blame for those premium rises, even though,may in large, the Rs claim to be against obumblercare.

    I have posted since 2019 that the Rs would never vote to repeal it.

    It will go again to the .supreme court.

    However, you have to look again at Roberts and Kavanaugh (bushies) as the concern votes.

    I have no doubt that Thomas, Alito, And Gorsuch would strike it.

  1051. Tina says:

    Since 2010*

  1052. Tina says:

    Precisely Phil.

    The polls and exists show this.

  1053. lisab says:

    if trump’s opponent is hillary, or especially warren, bernie, or similar

    i think he wins

    if it is biden or similar — someone who can appear reasonable

    i think trump loses

    (i think hillary would be tougher than people think, but loses)

  1054. Tina says:

    Richard Baris
    Has Team Hillary conducted rematch polls? Because they’re ugly. It looks a lot like her 2016 map, minus Minnesota and New Hampshire.
    5:15 AM – 12 Nov 2018

    Lisab, this is from Baris, if it’s a rematch.

  1055. Wes says:

    RF, if Trump is reduced to hoping Dems make a major screwup in 2020, then things are bleak indeed.

  1056. Paul says:

    When do we start getting the Beto/Trump matchup polls?

  1057. Todd McCain says:

    Larry Sckweikert looked like the biggest fool with his 5-7 seat senate gain predictions….

  1058. phoenixrisen says:

    Hey Todd, I predicted GOP +7 in the Senate as well. So, he wasn’t the only biggest fool here 😉

  1059. phoenixrisen says:

    The two stunners in this election are Sinema winning Arizona and Kendra Horn taking out Steve Russell in OK-5.

    Phil is right. We got killed in the suburbs because the GOP didn’t put forth any good alternative health care package to kick away Obamacare. The whole repeal and replace campaign was a big show of Kabuki theature. They chickened out and got killed for it. Unreal that the GOP didn’t counter these Democratic congress candidates with how much an abysmal failure Obamacare is and why. Political incompetence.

  1060. Todd McCain says:

    Shame about McSally; I still cannot fathom how almost 15% of Republicans voted for the pink tutu, especially when the incumbent GOP governor was winning in a landslide.

  1061. marc says:

    Not really surprising, AZ is a McCain state so 15% of RINOs voting for the tutu leftist to send a finger to Trump, is par for the course ala the Obamacare vote.

  1062. marc says:

    Recount update:

    A Broward County judge has denied a request from the Rick Scott team for an injunction to impound certain Broward County voting machines as the recount in the U.S. Senate race continues.

    Chief Circuit Judge Jack Tuter denied that injunction request, saying, “I don’t think I have any evidence to enter a mandatory injunction right now.”

    However, Tuter did agree with Scott’s attorneys that additional protections be added to restore the public’s confidence in the recount process.

  1063. Bitterlaw says:

    Maybe Trump/Beto will be the Dems ticket in 2020. Trump would love to make history by winning the WH as a Republicand and a Democrat.

  1064. Wes says:

    John James is contemplating a challenge to Gary Peters in 2020. Good luck with that, I say without irony.

    James was a surprisingly strong candidate who did reasonably well despite electoral headwinds in one of the epicenters of anti-Trump sentiment in 2018.

    Peters is weaker than Stabenow and lucked into his seat by facing an opponent who gave up campaigning in April. James has proved his tenacity in even a hopeless race and may be able to oust Senator Anonymous.

  1065. Bitterlaw says:

    If the GOP wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, the bill that went down should have been designed to repeal and replace Obamacare. It did neither.

  1066. Wes says:

    At this point I think Trump should step aside for Pence. Although not a brash self-seeker like Trump, Pence is a formidable campaigner with a host of accomplishments under his belt. He can safely appeal to Trump’s base while being inoffensive to those turned off by the Donald.

    Maybe after two egotistical showboaters in a row, Americans are ready for a President who won’t go out of his way to antagonize anyone and everyone outside his chosen base.

  1067. Bitterlaw says:

    We might as well accept that pre-existing conditions will have to be covered by insurance. No need to lose anymore seats on that issue.

  1068. Wes says:

    Remember, the worst Dems had on Pence was ridiculously trying to label him a “sexist” for refusing to be alone with any woman besides his wife.

    To paraphrase one of Jimmy Page’s former bandmates, that ship sailed like a lead zeppelin.

  1069. marc says:

    Michigan doesn’t really have a history of GOP Senators l, I think a missed opportunity was Ohio Sen with Brown winning just be 4% 52-48 basically

  1070. Wes says:

    Stan Lee has passed. RIP.

  1071. Scooterboy says:

    I agree that it’s doubtful that Trump could win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan again.
    I also agree that the GOP have a healthcare problem. The Dems pounded them over pre-existing issues.

  1072. marc says:

    Question? Does Doug Jones start voting with Republicans more this term or does he continue to vote with Schumer and the lib Dems?

  1073. Bitterlaw says:

    Just saw that Stan Lee died. I was not into the comics but he had quite a career. RIP.

  1074. Bitterlaw says:

    Wes scooped me.

  1075. Wes says:

    Renacci barely campaigned and came that close. Brown is going left as OH is going right. I think the GOP gets him next time.

    MI has largely elected Dem Senators since 1954, but James held Stabenow to a significantly lower margin than in previous races despite the headwinds against him and her grossly outspending him. Peters isn’t Stabenow. With few realistic targets other than Doug Jones next time for the GOP, I would take a serious look at MI-Sen.

    Besides, Peters is up in two years while Brown is up in six.

  1076. CG says:

    It’s already being said that there are just six states up for grabs in 2020. Everything else on the map can basically be colored the same as last time.

    Sun Belt- AZ, FL, NC
    Rust Belt- MI, PA, WI

    Even if Trump were to hang on and win all three in the Sun Belt, I think he has very little chance for any in the Rust Belt.

    Republicans need a different nominee.

  1077. NYCmike says:

    I thought CO was up for grabs in 2020…..Gardner is not a shoo-in.

  1078. NYCmike says:

    Oh, you are speaking about Presidential race.

  1079. Wes says:

    FL has no Class 2 seat, Corey.

    I doubt Tillis is in any real trouble as Dems barely gained anything here this year. NC-Gov will be the big race, and I can think of no big names to challenge Tillis in a fairly GOP state.

  1080. NYCmike says:

    Trump did in Ohio what Romney and McCain could not…..which other Republican would replicate that?

  1081. Wes says:

    Trump probably hangs on in NC. I’m not sure about AZ. WI, PA, and MI are almost certainly gone.

  1082. Wes says:

    Mike Pence, Mikey.

  1083. CG says:

    Speaking about the Presidential race, only six states.

    At that’s being kind to Trump in terms of keeping everything else he won last time.

  1084. Cash Cow TM says:

    There is another D who has now thrown their hat into the ring and announced his running for president in 2020.

    Here is a NEW name for Ds to consider…

  1085. CG says:

    If DeWine (one time “milquetoast RINO” who was unseated in a 2006 landslide) can win the Governorship against a far-left opponent, I think any generic Republican has the edge there. I think any would do better than Trump.

    Renacci won as a Trump clone and still lost. Portman was more independent of Trump and won big in 2016.

    (I wish Portman would be in the convo for President)

  1086. marc says:

    Ok so we have our first county done with the machine recount. Florida election recount: Indian River County finishes counting 77,000 ballots
    In the race for U.S. Senate, incumbent Democratic Senator Bill Nelson lost one vote in the recount, with his opponent, Republican Gov. Rick Scott maintained his lead with no change among Indian River County voters.

  1087. gameboy says:


    Well that’s a nice start for Trump. At this point, or at least from the point where Trump announced in 2016 there were zero on that list. The truth is any list is a joke at this point. Things are going to happen in the country, or the world that we don’t know about yet that will impact things.

  1088. CG says:

    If he can’t get 270, it’s irrelevant

    But his post-election Tweets will be fire! He will own the libs!

  1089. lisab says:

    We got killed in the suburbs because the GOP didn’t put forth any good alternative health care package to kick away Obamacare.

    to give you an idea, i just went for a simple blood test for my thyroid

    $800!!!!! after insurance $375 or so!

    that is a big sticker shock because in ny as a public employee it was $20

    so i can imagine a LOT of middle class people being pretty upset

  1090. marc says:

    Having met Senator Portman, he doesnt possess the personality to run a national campaign in which he would be the main focus. He would be a good VP candidate though.

  1091. Wes says:

    That works both ways, Gb. What is apparent is that Trump is an irritant to a large section of the electorate and has learned nothing from last Tuesday. That bodes poorly going forward.

    Hoping for some deus ex machina occurrence to save him is not exactly the best strategy.

  1092. lisab says:

    how much an abysmal failure Obamacare is and why.

    well … now a poor person

    on welfare

    can go to the best doctors for free.

    basically obamacare gives the best care in the world to people who don’t work, or who work under the table.

    so it is pretty successful for a huge section of the population

  1093. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The ball is now in the Democrats court, if their majority in the House acts responsibly and moderately, it will help them in 2020. If Maxine Waters and the leftist bounce off the wall, it will be a disaster for them.

    After the 1994 midterm elections, everyone wrote off Bill Clinton, yet Clinton won re-election in 2016. Unfortunately, Trump does not have the political dexterity of Clinton. Sadly, Trump’s personality is overshadowing his policy achievements.

    As for Pence, I find him personally nondescript. Plus if Trump crashes and burns, he will be burdened with having been his vice president.

  1094. NYCmike says:


    Considering that “CG” has not thought at all why he was so off in 2016, and has given Trump ZERO credit for winning the states that he did, I think it would be prudent to make such declarative statements a week out from an emotional election.

    Let’s see how Pelosi acts as Speaker, how the Senate reacts to their legislation, or if they choose to set their own agenda, etc.

    Republicans need to look less at Trump, and win voters to our way of thinking.

  1095. CG says:

    There is no universe where it logically makes sense that “Republicans lost elections in 2018 because they did not repeal Obamacare.”

    There is a case to be made for “Republicans lost elections in 2018 because they tried to repeal Obamacare.”

    The people that are voting on the issue want more government health care not less.

    Which should the GOP stand for? Remember, Trump once said he liked European style single-payer healthcare.

    Should he get to the left of Democrats on that? His fans here will applaud him if he does.

  1096. lisab says:

    When do we start getting the Beto/Trump matchup polls?

    beto creates problems for the dems. i think he falls early in the process.

  1097. NYCmike says:

    “basically obamacare gives the best care in the world to people who don’t work, or who work under the table.”

    -This is it in a nutshell.

    Our nation will become 2 systems, just like other countries around the world, where those of affluence (and charity cases) will receive better care than the rest of the masses, who will more and more be sent to public facilities that are NOT top-notch facilities.

  1098. Wes says:

    Being nondescript may be a boon to Pence, SDC. It’s harder to be galvanized against someone who gives no reason for a negative reaction than to be motivated against someone actively trying to goad someone.

    Besides, Pence can point to his previous service as Congressman and Governor and hails from a section of the country where Republicans badly need votes.

    Hardcore anti-Trumpers will link any Republican to Trump, so being a powerless Veep may not be a disqualifies.

  1099. NYCmike says:

    ” Remember, Trump once said he liked European style single-payer healthcare.”

    -Once again, this poster will ignore the actions taken as President for the last 2 years, and worry about what Trump said at different times before that.

    It’s almost as if he refuses to get over the 2016 primary season……

  1100. lisab says:

    obamacare shifts a lot of wealth from the middle class to the poor.


    many government employees do not suffer the consequences because they were protected by their contracts

    so that ship has sailed

  1101. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1122. “We got killed in the suburbs because the GOP didn’t put forth any good alternative health care package to kick away Obamacare.”

    We got killed because Trump was an abrasive and obnoxious human being. He alienates people. Plus, he constantly bickered and undercut members of his own party, such as his post-election attack on the Republican congressional candidates who lost.

    Saying this, he has accomplished a lot in taking on the establishment, and changing what in many ways was a rotten system. He probably was what we needed. But voters are notorious for tossing reformers out after they have done their work.

  1102. CG says:

    There would be a stronger 2020 nominee than Pence.

    One step at a time though. Trump should resign today and let Pence be President. That would be an immediate improvement.

    If polling looks good for Pence regarding, we have more info.

  1103. Wes says:

    I agree, Mikey, but having Trump be the standard bearer again won’t do that.

    I’m judging the next election not on Tuesday’s results but on Trump’s reaction to them.

    He’s the same person he was on Monday. That won’t win people over.

  1104. CG says:

    1132. The actions Trump took were to let conservative Congressional leadership take the lead, (while also publicly calling them “mean.”)

    If left to his own devices, Trump might cut a deal for “Medicaid for all.”

  1105. CG says:

    McCain and the Bushes were very close, for years before his death.

    The attempted distractions by the OnlyTrump crowd is sad.

  1106. lisab says:

    Outrage as TV host says he is ‘uncomfortable’ calling fallen soldiers ‘heroes’

  1107. NYCmike says:

    “If left to his own devices, Trump might cut a deal for “Medicaid for all.””

    -No doubt.

    Which is why BOLD CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP should have happened beginning on Jan. 21, 2017, instead of worrying about “mean” words.

    Is it possible that a grown man, as well as elected Congressional representatives, can be that affected by “mean” words?

    What world am I living in?

  1108. NYCmike says:

    “The attempted distractions by the OnlyTrump crowd is sad.”

    -Keep repeating stupid statements like “OnlyTrump”.

    Either the Republican Party was splintered during the primaries, and only united for Trump because of his opponent, or Trump got elected by Republicans who were following him.

    Which one is it?

  1109. Tina says:

    Bl, re 1099

    Never understood why one wants to take that away.

  1110. phoenixrisen says:

    Don’t write off Trump’s chances in the Rust Belt. He has brought the manufacturing sector back, his trade stances and re-negotiation of NAFTA paid off big for the dairy industry in Wisconsin and the auto industry in Michigan. He’s got some really impressive accomplishments he can tout in his re-election campaign that way. There is a significant amount of suburban voters that he has a likability problem with and that was exasperated by the GOP’s cowardice on health care. His approval rating is higher than what Obama’s was during his first term. Pretty confident that Trump will be re-elected but he could stand to soften his tone and be a bit more statesman-like.

  1111. Wes says:

    You’re missing the point, Mikey. By making that statement, Trump undercut his own party in Congress. He should have taken my advice—which you rejected—at the time and crafted a coherent PR strategy with congressional Republicans to make the case for repeal and replace of Obamacare.

    By mouthing off, He muddied the waters and scuttled what they were trying to do.

    Sadly that’s what Trump does. It’s why he gets little credit for his accomplishments. It’s why the Left is galvanized against him in particular and Republicans in general. It’s why Republicans suffered last week. It’s why Trump is in a precarious position going into 2020.

    Electing a blustering reality show star who never moved beyond that persona into a President perceived as competent doesn’t look like the best strategy for the GOP given his continued inability to act like an adult and look presidential.

  1112. CG says:

    The 2020 cycle is upon us are the “OnlyTrump” crowd promises further electoral disaster.

  1113. CG says:

    Wisconsin is probably lost for Trump due to his decision to fight with Harley-Davidson.

  1114. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    It is important to remember that one reason Trump won was a relatively low turnout by Democrats in 2016. In 2018 they turned out. It likely would happen in 2020 as well.

    If Trump does not run in 2020, believe Haley or even Rubio might be able to expand the Republican vote. They could then institutional the reforms that Trump has enacted.

    Agree with Phil in #1054, if the Republican Party does not start expanding its base, its headed for extinction. I don’t see Pence as a candidate that would attract suburban voters.

  1115. CG says:

    The only place where Trump’s JA is higher than Obama’s at this point is Rasmussen.

    Rasmussen of the +1 GOP Congressional generic ballot.

    The exit polls should show why Rasmussen is an outlier.

  1116. Wes says:

    Trump is still being Trump and acting like Trump, Phoenix. He won’t be re-elected—I say this with no doubts—by being what he is. We saw on Tuesday those manufacturing and dairy jobs made exactly zero difference when voters had already soured on Trump.

  1117. lisab says:

    until the dems have an actual candidate, i think trump is the odds on favourite.

    plus hillary is the 300 pound gorilla in the room.

    if she runs …

  1118. Wes says:

    Until one party has a candidate the presumptive nominee for the other party is always the odds-on favorite, Lisa. We saw that two years ago when Hillary and Trump were running in their respective primaries.

    Once Dems have a nominee the current incarnation of the Donald—a classless, sanctimonious, blustery egotist—is definitely DOA. A new incarnation capable of showing self-restraint and not abrading just about every person in the country would be at least a slight favorite.

  1119. marc says:

    As of November 4, 2018, the United States Senate has confirmed 84 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including 2 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, 29 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals, 53 judges for the United States District Courts, and 0 judges for the United States Court of International Trade.[2] There are currently 57 nominations to Article III courts awaiting Senate action, including 7 for the Courts of Appeals, 48 for the District Courts, and 2 for the Court of International Trade. Hopefully, by the end of the lame duck all nominations will clear the Senate. So the next Congress can start on a fresh batch of vacancies to fill with fresh young conservatives who will serve for a generation

  1120. lisab says:

    Don’t write off Trump’s chances in the Rust Belt. He has brought the manufacturing sector back,

    how far left will the dems run in the nomination process?

    biden is the dems biggest hope to take the rust belt. he at least knows enough to say he is from the working class

    there could certainly be others who would do the same, i am just saying biden definitely has said that before.

  1121. phoenixrisen says:

    Wes, Wisconsin simply had Walker-fatigue, felt like 2 terms was enough. Tough to get a third term. Scott Walker is a likely challenger to Tammy Baldwin come 2024. Trump’s approval rating has been in the mid-forties taking out the ridiculous CNN polls. Trump isn’t out of it by any means and will have an enormous fundraising advantage heading into election 2020. But I agree with you. The Trump firebrand tweets and statements are getting old. He can be assertive and stern without being insulting like he is known for. He has got to tone it down. He has even talked about it.

  1122. lisab says:

    Once Dems have a nominee the current incarnation of the Donald—a classless, sanctimonious, blustery egotist—is definitely DOA.

    if they nominate someone good, than yes, but that is a big assumption.

    but you do have almost a 50% chance of being correct 🙂

  1123. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Compare Trump to Reagan. One of Reagan’s strength’s was he was extremely likable. By the way, let’s not forget that Reagan’s first midterm election resulted in major Democratic gains. He was like Trump in that he came in and “rocked the boat”. Reformers as presidents often had bad first midterm elections. The question is can they adapt and move forward.

    The big advantage Trump may have is if the Democrats decide to do crazy, which seems likely. Then I could see Trump winning in 2020.

  1124. CG says:

    Trump fatigue is going to grow day by day, and this is with people thinking the economy is good. Huge red light.

    People felt much better about the economy in 1996 as compared to 1994 and in 1984 as compared to 1982.

    There isn’t going to be anything to happen that will have swing voters saying “you know I’m starting to like Trump now.”

    If he doesn’t have them now, he never will. If the economy gets worse, forget about it…

    Democrats have their own problems and if they do not wise up themselves, there will be a third party opportunity like none we have ever seen in our lives.

    Every month, it is a sad reality of life that older people pass away. On the other side, younger people turn 18 every month. Bad news for Trump in both regards. With each passing month, America becomes less white and less native born. I know this causes anxiety to some, but it is reality. Political parties need to adapt to reality or they will die.

  1125. Wes says:

    Phoenix, Dems poured a tremendous amount of money into Beto O’Rourke’s Senate race in Texas. They’re not going to let Trump have a significant fundraising advantage.

    WI was as much about Trump as about Walker. I do agree Walker tried to stay around too long. I even said that on here repeatedly. That said, Republicans ignore the Trump factor in their losses at their peril.

    One can not simply state all factors were local when the President loomed large over the overall elections.

  1126. Scooterboy says:

    Trump needs to pivot. Does he have it in him?
    We shall see.

  1127. lisab says:

    trump will almost certainly be the gop nominee

    hopefully, hhr will not have another 2016 episode with certain posters attacking others for saying that trump can win.

  1128. Phil says:

    I don’t think Trump get’s re-elected. Period. He needs to step aside, but his massive ego won’t let him. That is why it is so vital That Scott is going to hang on in Florida. With the WH and House in Democratic hands we can’t afford to be 50-50 in the Senate. We need that three seat buffer going into the 2020 election.

  1129. Wes says:

    SDC, Michael Barone has done extensive analysis on 1982. Most of Reagan’s losses were because of redistricting. He was not unpopular and had the deepest part of the recession Carter handed him to deal with that year.

    He still lost fewer seats than Trump did this year and was personally likable. None of those factors is in Trump’s favor right now.

  1130. CG says:

    For people who have now decided Trump should walk away but fear he won’t, I would suggest it might be time to root for Mueller.

    It’s not like Mueller is going to have found anything that is not provable. I think most people realize that.

  1131. Phil says:

    Beto will challenge Cornyn in 2020. You heard it here first.

  1132. lisab says:

    He needs to step aside, but his massive ego won’t let him.

    as long as he is healthy, he is probably the nominee

    he could 70-80% chance or so

  1133. CG says:

    I’m *far* from certain that Trump will be running again.

    But as long as the possibility exists, Republicans (or anyone who wants to keep the Far Left out of power) needs to really think about every possible option and circumstance, including electability.

  1134. Todd McCain says:

    Beto will be 0/2. You heard it here first.

  1135. CG says:

    Beto should just run for President now.

    The field will be a complete “mess” as it is and he will never be anymore popular among the base than he is now. (Sort of lucky for him too if the Gillum and Abrams defeats hold)

    The B.O. initials and being tall and skinny and fawned over by celebrities might be the key to a nomination. You never know.

  1136. lisab says:

    I’m *far* from certain that Trump will be running again.

    if you are right you can make a fortune on the casino sites

  1137. Tina says:

    Beta- Guloon 2020

  1138. lisab says:

    pabst is suing coors-miller because they are going to stop brewing pabst, putting them out of business

  1139. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    In Florida, Indian River County has completed its machine recount and has taken 1 vote away from Nelson(D) in the Senate race and given two additional votes to DeSantis(R) in the Governor’s race.
    There are no additional changes. It took the County 16 hrs. to complete the task.

  1140. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    Add: Approximately 77,000 votes in total, or 1% of the 8 million votes cast.

  1141. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1163. “SDC, Michael Barone has done extensive analysis on 1982. Most of Reagan’s losses were because of redistricting.”

    That may be true, but the Democrats already had a majority of seats, and gained 26 more. As a result there were 269 Democrats and only 177 Republicans.

  1142. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    I cannot predict who will win in 2020. Have faith in the Democrats, they are likely to go into the crazy mode and the voters may vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils.

    Also I don’t agree that non-Anglo voters will not vote Republican. Asians in Southern California and Cubans in Florida prove otherwise. (Polynesians in Utah may be another example.)

  1143. Messy says:

    1124, 1126-17. That is a video of some people moving some boxes. There is no evidence that there are ballots in there. If there were, they would have submitted the video to a judge.

  1144. NYCmike says:

    “But as long as the possibility exists, Republicans (or anyone who wants to keep the Far Left out of power) needs to really think about every possible option and circumstance, including electability.”

    -SO, WE NEED to do what you refused to do in 2016.

    Got it.

    Unless, of course, you don’t want to keep the FAR LEFT out of power.

  1145. Paul says:

    Beto might be better positioned for veep.

    Mabye a Tester/O’Rourke 2020 ticket.

  1146. CG says:

    “-SO, WE NEED to do what you refused to do in 2016.”

    If you find the person completely objectionable among moral lines due to misogyny, racism, or whatever, then you should stand by your conscience and not vote for them.

    If you are angry at them because of who they did a press conference with, then I think that is something very different.

  1147. CG says:

    Asian-Americans in SoCal and Cuban-Americans in South Florida are becoming more Democrat. It’s quite clear in the results. That is especially true for the younger generations.

  1148. Paul says:

    My district borders two districts that flipped to Democrats mostly because of Obamacare. And yes, the people voted against Roskam and Hultgren because they opposed Obamacare. If the GOP has a different solution other than simply opposing Obamacare, I haven’t heard it. People (myself included) aren’t totally in love with Obamacare. But we certainly don’t want you to kill it either or our family’s healthcare is in jeopardy.

  1149. Dylan says:

    IF only the GOP were to do “X” between now and 202, they could :

    1. Shore up suburban voters
    2. Shore up the voters who feel health care was ignored;
    3. Shore up the voters who hate trump;
    4. Shore up the Asians in So Cal and the Cubans in FL
    5. Shore up the Rust belt

    There is a ZERO % chance that the GOP will do any of these things across all of these constituancies. ZERO %

  1150. CG says:

    Every single ad against Roskam and Hultgren tied them to Trump (and I said Roskam tried to tie his Democrat opponent to Trump too…, Hultgren got badly outspent)

    So even more than healthcare as a single issue, voters were asked to vote against them because they were in the same party as Trump.

    In Chicagoland, every ad for every State Rep or State Senate race by the Democrats also talked about Trump. Every one. Trump was talked about in every local race in once solidly Republican DuPage County and Lake County by the Democrats in their mail pieces, etc.

    Democrats got unprecedented wins in DuPage and now control Lake County for the first time ever , since the County was founded in the 1840s.

  1151. Paul says:

    And all the GOP ads tried to tie Caten and Underwood to Illinois Statehouse boss Mike Madigan. I was kind of pissed at those ads at first because Mike Madigan had nothing to do with the US Congress. Apparently, I didn’t need to worry because everyone must have thought the same thing.

  1152. lisab says:

    if we have open borders, then we will have a single payer system.

    once the people who are not taxed can vote themselves tax benefits, they will


    the big companies want this too, because it is easier to avoid taxes than to avoid paying your employees insurance premiums.

    but once we have single payer, they won’t have to pay

  1153. CG says:

    Madigan and Rauner were both polling below Trump. Yes, every Republican ad talked about Madigan.

    It didn’t work though. People wanted to send a message to Trump first.

  1154. CG says:

    The Hultgren campaign really held back at attacking Underwood. Hultgren is too nice of a guy and didn’t want to do it.

    At the end of the campaign, there were surrogates talked about the fact that Underwood was 32 years old and still lived in her parent’s (very expensive) home in Naperville.

    More effective would have been what came out two days before the election that she was not a practicing nurse, despite that being the center feature of her campaign, and had never held a job where she interacted with patients. She has a nursing degree and worked on a task force advising Obama but despite her ads, never had a job wear she wore scrubs, etc.

    The Hultgren campaign had to know this months ago, but didn’t want to go negative.

  1155. Hugh says:

    We got killed in the house races partially because we got severely outspent. It takes money to win house seats we also got killed do to 40 cowards who retired. We did well in the senate. A couple better candidates and we would have won wv and mt. My greatest frustration is how we lost AZ. It is way beyond me that we lost that race. Nv is probably blue from now on. Can’t win when the other side pays employees to vote.

  1156. Cash Cow TM says:

    Beto Bailey will not be able to get past Richard Ojeda in the 2020 D primary for POTUS.

  1157. marc says:

    Miami-Dade is halfway through its recount.

    By noon on Monday, Miami-Dade managed to recount about half of the more than 800,000 votes cast in the 2018 election. Broward County had not yet started its state-mandated recount.mi-Dade is halfway through its recount.

  1158. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    The new Georgia Secretary of State issues order to count absentee ballots even if the information on the ballots is incomplete and required by State law.
    KEEP COUNTING until the Democrat wins although it shout have little effect on the outcome of the Governor’s race. Watch out for its impact on the GA CD-7 race where the Republican is ahead by a mere 900 votes.–regional-govt–politics/georgia-secretary-state-tells-election-officials-count-more-absentee-ballots/Fy8nEgctLnhZatRCs4WhBO/

  1159. Tina says:

    Larry Schweikart
    Replying to @weaverpundit @rushlimbaugh
    Ducey had good messaging. Talked about who HE was. Every McSally ad was an attack ad.
    View conversation ·

    Ducey got 200000 more votes than Mcsally.

  1160. Marv says:


    Thanks for the Miami-Dade link.

    What’s your opinion on Broward eventual outcome? I figure the totals in all four races under recount there will wind being about the same as they are now.

  1161. marc says:

    Personal I don’t think Broward finishes it’s machine count much less is capable of doing a hand recount. That’s how bad the incompetence and mismanagement is.

  1162. Phil says:

    Marc, so then what?

    Broward goes to court to demand they get more time even after the Thurs deadline? I mean, when can this end. What’s Florida Law say about not finishing by the deadline?

  1163. Just Fill Out The Census says:

    Broward County and Brenda Snipes are both competente.

    The PROBLEM is all of the Republican and protestors interference that is dragging he recount through the mud and causing countless delays to the process.

    When (not if) Broward County fails to meet the deadline, Governor Scott and Republicans can blame themselves. That’s when the lawsuit to extend the machine count deadline by 1 week will be filed-and Nelson’s team will score a legal victory.

    Mark. My. Words.

  1164. Phil says:

    My guess is Broward intentionally drags it out until all the other counties are in – for the sole purpose of seeing exactly how many votes they need to manufacture.

  1165. Phil says:

    Yeah, that’s the problem with Broward. If only Republican protestors would get out of the way. That’s the holdup for sure……. LOL

  1166. Dylan says:

    Every single election cycle, it should be someone’s SOLE job to assure the best candidates are on the ballot. It sure seems like the NRCC chair was either asleep at the wheel or had no mojo. Personally, I’m not sure it would have mattered. LONG TERM incumbants lost all over the place this cycle.

  1167. marc says:

    Don’t feed the troll..

  1168. RB says:

    Lee County should report right at the deadline

  1169. marc says:

    But Snipes shows the mental illness that liberalism is when you apply it to the real world.if she wasn’t black her incompetence wouldn’t be so overlooked.

  1170. Marv says:


    If I understand the law correctly, in the event that a county fails
    to submit their machine recount tallies by 3 pm Thursday afternoon, then the talliee the FL SOS has on file will be certified.

  1171. Phil says:

    Incompetence is giving her the benefit of the doubt. I maintain she knows exactly what she’s doing.

  1172. Marv says:


    For clarification……Broward and Palm Beach counties submitted the final results already, then the FL SOS ordered the machine recount, which is due this Thursday at 3 pm.
    If they don’t submit the results of the machine recount on time,
    then the tallies already submitted are certified by the FL SOS as the final result.

    Is that all correct?

  1173. marc says:

    When this is all over DeSantis is going to have to appoint a more activist SOS on par with Kobach, and finally put and end to these shenanigans in Broward and Palm Beach, whether the Democrats like it or not

  1174. Phil says:

    Miami-Dade was finished with half the machine count (400K ballots) by noon today – and Broward hasn’t even started?

    Nope, that’s deliberate. Has to be.

  1175. Marv says:


    See #1207.

  1176. marc says:

    So I called my friend, who is one of the few elected office in the state legislature down there and he told me that what is taking Broward, so long is that Broward is still sorting the first page from ballots and has not started recounting them, the incompetence is staggering.

  1177. Phil says:

    So the question remains as to what happens to Broward’s total when they haven’t completed the machine recount by Thursday noon?

    Isn’t that the 64K dollar question?

  1178. Marv says:


    No link, but state law says that the results already on file with the FL SOS are certified and become final.

    DeSantis and Scott will win with the current published totals, but the GOP Ag Commissioner loses. (Tough luck to be himj

  1179. Phil says:


    You realize that Nelson and his Washington lawyers will challenge that law, right?

    ……on the basis of “count every vote” of course.

  1180. Marv says:

    #1214 Phil

    Yep, big fight coming.

    The math is bad for Gollum and Nelson, so the GOP wins this time.

  1181. NYCmike says:

    “……on the basis of “count every vote” of course.”

    -This is how the Democrats play.

    If you want to see how typical Republicans play, look no further than “CG” speaking about “mean” words back in February 2017.

    I know what I would have done, if I was Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell: passed the bill, then let Trump veto it.

    And “CG” accepts this as a valid excuse….”mean” words……think about that when you watch Democrats steal another election.

  1182. Robbie says:

    Congratulations to Donald Trump on creating a political environment so awful for his own party that it allowed a Democrat to win an Arizona Senate seat for the first time since 1988.

    I’m sure if he keeps on the same pace he’s been on, Democrats can win another there in 2020.


  1183. Robbie says:

    I see NYCmike, after watching his NYC liberal turned conservative hero Trump (LOL) produce an environment that allowed Democrats to win about 40 House seats, has resorted to the “but he fights” argument.

    Seriously, just sit things out for a while. Your “Must defend the Trump” strategy was a complete disaster just like Chris McDaniel’s MS Senate race.

  1184. marc says:

    What is wrong with these Never Trumpers? Do they really think a dub like Jeb Bush or Kasich could have done better? The party followed the Bush establishment way for years and what did it get us? Barack Obama.

    So Robbie, have a seat and be quite. We tried your establishment way and it failed disastrously.

  1185. michael corleone says:

    Robbie you need to check reality as well. Trump has his faults and the GOP lost the House and that sucks, but you don’t win a net 2 seats in the Senate and hold governorships in OH, GA, FL, IA, and AZ, all swing seats, when an election is a complete disaster. GOP power in state legislatures held up fairly well too, and we maintained governorships in deep blue states like MD, MA, and VT. I am concerned about the rust belt, but the MI Senate results tell me that state continues to move to the right. Also, WI remains a marginal state that we can win (we still control the legislature and the court) and the House result in the Bucks county anchored PA-1 (Fitz winning) tells me that PA will be in play too. I’m worried about TX, but that is a 2024 issue.

  1186. marc says:

    Trump might have his drawbacks, but he fights for himself and for the movement. Unlike Bush, Romeywho couldn’t defend themselves out of a paper bag against those who called them racist, sexist, bigots etec.

    It so pathetic watching him go around being friendly to the same people that called him every name in the book.

    Also watch Romney and see how friendly he is to the same Senators who lied about him, his taxes and his business.

  1187. Phil says:

    Not even Robbie would want Kasich as the nominee. At least I hope to God not.

  1188. marc says:

    McSally is a fool to concede, would the Democrat concede with the vote so close? He’ll no.

    This disqualifies her for the appointed seat. She is unwilling to fight, when she should.

  1189. Phil says:

    Agree, that’s what is missing with all Republicans before Trump – no fight.

    Their passive roll over behavior is what created Trump.

  1190. Tina says:

    Marv, any changes to the counts?

    I presume very little.

    They need to lock up snipes. I did not realize that the Sheriff losah is from broward?

  1191. Marv says:


    Indian River County is complete. Nelson lost a vote and DeSantis gained two, out of app 74,000 total votes.

  1192. Scooterboy says:

    But Indiana River County isn’t the problem. Broward is the problem. What is the count gonna be when Broward is done? That’s what worries me.

  1193. Cash Cow TM says:

    “…Miley Cyrus, Gerard Butler, and Neil Young are among those whose houses in the Malibu area were destroyed by the Woolsey fire.”

    Who is Gerard Butler?

  1194. Marv says:

    #1227 Scooterboy,

    True enough, but Indian River is the only county reporting anything so far.

  1195. Cash Cow TM says:

    Cow still working for ya!


    Monkeys with herpes rapidly breeding in FL park a recipe for trouble…

    Probably a Broward County park….

  1196. marc says:

    The issue isn’t that Broward can produce fake votes, to many eyes on them now to do that ala Attorney General Pam Bondi now says her office is “actively engaged” with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to watch for recount shenanigans in Broward and Palm Beach.

  1197. Scooterboy says:

    I know Marv, I’m just not as confident as you are that they won’t find enough votes. However, I don’t know Florida like you do so I’m praying you Florida guys are right.

  1198. Tina says:

    Thanks, Marv.

  1199. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1181. “sian-Americans in SoCal and Cuban-Americans in South Florida are becoming more Democrat. It’s quite clear in the results. That is especially true for the younger generations.”

    From the Miami Herald

    “DeSantis and Gov. Rick Scott — whose run for the U.S. Senate also appears headed to a recount — “motivated the community to get out and vote for them,” Marcell Felipe, president of Inspire America, said in a statement. “It’s a niche vote that made the difference in these tight elections. They made the cause of freedom an important part of the campaign and it paid off.” A Telemundo poll last week of registered Hispanic voters showed that 64 percent of the Cuban Americans polled supported DeSantis

    “GARCIA-NAVARRO: And that had given Democrats some hope in recent elections. But what we saw this election is, in Miami-Dade’s most Cuban precincts, Ron DeSantis won twice as many votes as the Democratic candidate Andrew Gillum – 66 percent to 33 percent. And that’s leading some to say that the Cuban vote came out strongly on the right this time.”

    And CG you wonder why people don’t take you seriously.

  1200. CG says:

    Two seats held by Cuban-American Republican House members went Democrat.

    The three districts in South Florida with heavily concentration of Cuban-American voters were traditionally Republican. Two of them went to Hillary Clinton in 2016 with 56 and 58 percent of the vote. The other was won by Trump by one point.

    Cuban-Americans are not voting anywhere near as heavily Republican as they have in past elections, especially in federal elections. This is simply a fact.

  1201. CG says:

    Further down from SDC’s Miami Herald story, which of course he knew better than to actually link from:

    “The numbers are only estimates because the vote is secret and the U.S. Census provides percentages of Cuban Americans only for residential districts, not voting precincts, said Eduardo Gamarra, a Florida International University political analyst who reviewed Sopo’s estimates at the request of el Nuevo Herald.”

    Read more here:

  1202. CG says:

    The article goes on to further specify that Trump ran worse among Cuban-Americans in 2016. So yes, Trump is more of a problem than the Republican label itself.

    It was not a good election result for Republicans in the short of long term when two Republican seats from districts that Clinton won comfortably, went Democrat.

  1203. marc says:

    Corey hasn’t become an independent like the other Never Trumper traitors Wallace,Krystal,Jolly Schmidt.

  1204. CG says:

    Is that a good thing or a bad thing, marc?

  1205. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    I tend to believe the polls showing how Cuban-Americans themselves voted, versus using data from districts with a lot of Cubans. Cuban Americans are still voting heavily Republican in Florida.

    Likewise in Southern California, Asians voters are still voting for Republicans. In San Diego, Chris Cate was re-elected as a city councilmember, and may be the next Republican candidate for mayor. And Republican Young Kim was elected to succeed Ed Royce in Orange County. I expect in two years several of the Republican candidates who run to take back the congressional seats that went Democratic this year will be Asian. Among Vietnamese as example, Republican registration is in many places higher than Democratic.

    I recently posted an article by Joel Kotkin how important it was that the Republican Party attract the Asian voters in California.

    Many Asians feel they are victims of reverse discrimination, especially in college admittance situations. So they are beginning to resent aspects of the liberal agenda.

  1206. CG says:

    Two years ago, we saw massive protests after Trump was elected.

    After this midterm, no protests, on either side, but my mother just called me and she is so furious about some result tonight on “Dancing With the Stars”, that she is ready to take to the streets.

  1207. CG says:

    Young Kim’s possible win aside (where she benefited of course from her ethnicity), all signs point to Asian-Americans voting very heavily Democrat in California.

    Can you cite exit polls?

  1208. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    I will agree with CG that Trump’s anti-immigration rhetoric creates a problem attracting Cuban and Asian voters. He also needed to do direct outreach into these communities; which he has neglected. Making the stupid comments about Mia Love did not help either.

  1209. CG says:

    Ed Royce’s district in Orange County had been reliably Republican for generations, but Trump lost it.

    With him retiring, the seat was or almost was lost. (Last I heard, the Democrat was expected to probably prevail as the final votes came in. I hope not, especially since I predicted a Kim win.)

    All sorts of increasing racial and ethnic diversity is not good politically for the Republican Party under Trump. It’s hard to imagine how anybody can see it otherwise. The results both in 2016 and now 2018 make it pretty clear.

  1210. CG says:

    Even in the 90s, this was being talked about, as Bill Clinton did better with Cuban-Americans than many felt was possible.

    That the younger generations of Cuban-Americans, especially those born in the U.S. itself were more likely to vote similar to people of their age cohort and not as traditionally Republican. (GWB did well to get as much of that vote back in 2000 than he did, with Elian Gonzalez playing a role. He wouldn’t have been President without it.)

    I assume that among the descendants of Vietnamese refugees in Southern California and Northern Virginia and elsewhere, the same factors are at play.

    Virginia has certainly moved towards Democrats as the state becomes more diverse, including a lot more Asian.

  1211. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1243. I am not aware of any exit polls, and do agree the “signs point” to Asian voters in Southern California voted more Democratic in this election. I do not agree with your statement that “Asian-Americans in SoCal and Cuban-Americans in South Florida are becoming more Democrat. Depends on who the candidate is. I see Cuban American voters and Southern California Asians still having Republican leanings.

  1212. marc says:

    It’s a question I’m asking, Corey? The problem the Never Trumpers seem to have with Trump is all personality and not policy. Bush was weak and refused to defend himself against vile attack by Democrats and bastardized GOP policy, Trump is loud and brash yet on policy he’s done everything the conservative movement has wished for since the 80’s.

    Also how pathetic did Bush look at the McCain memorial playing friendly with the very same people who called him a racist, sexist, bigot, war criminal not to long ago?

  1213. CG says:

    As long as Trump is the candidate that will continue.

    Though the same factors were true, under all minority racial ethnicities, under Obama as well.

    The perceived harsh GOP position on immigration is of course the number one factor.

    Those who actually came over from Cuba or Vietnam may still vote more Republican than Latino or Asian-American voters in general, but they aren’t getting any younger. Non-Cuban Hispanics are becoming a bigger factor in Florida of course as well.

    It did not turn out to be true that an influx of Puerto Rican “refugees” as new Florida voters would spell doom statewide for Republicans, but even as the party proved it (probably) was able to win two battleground races this cycle, continued victory is far form a sure thing. Florida voted to expand voting rights last week to a lot of new people, who while they may be diverse racially and ethnically have not been traditional church-going law-abiding GOP types.

  1214. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1245. Your spot on regarding the Vietnamese still being fiercely anti-communist. Here is an example from some tweets:

    Kevin Nguyen
    ?”White people need to get less angry when I tell them my parents fled Communism.”
    Thy Vo
    Replying to @knguyen
    “Man on dating app this week asked me “are you VC” and when I asked him to clarify he said, “Victor Charlie. Viet Cong. Are you Vietnamese?” I went apes—t on that guy.”
    Other comments
    “Was just having this convo two nights ago with a friend who emigrated with his family from the USSR very young and gets infuriated when he sees too online people from Brooklyn with the sickle in their profile.”
    “True story: circa 1985, when my mom taught piano at Rutgers (about 5 years after emigrating), a colleague at lunch gave her the “But free health care!” line re the USSR. When she described the conditions in Soviet hospitals, he accused her of channeling American propaganda.”
    “?America is the home of people who fleed communism/totalitarian governments and the home of spoiled kids telling us how great collectivism and big government is via their iPhones sipping $10 lattes.

    Koreans in Southern California still resent that KoreaTown was abandoned during the rioting during the Rodney King incident.

  1215. CG says:

    My problems with Trump are personality and policy. He’s no conservative as far as I am concerned, but even if I agreed with him on 100 percent of issues, I see nothing to feel good about in regards to a “leader” who is incapable of honesty and is just a bad person in general.

    I want to remain a Republican and have continued to vote that way (Trump has been the only GOP nominee I have ever refused to vote for) and I hope to do whatever small part I can to drive Trumpism out of the party. I sense after last Tuesday that more people in general understand where I am coming from and I think the trend will continue.

    I don’t know what you expected GWB to have done at McCain’s funeral. I think funerals are a place where people are supposed to be respectful and civil. If his offering a mint to Michelle Obama offends you that much, then we have much bigger problems in this country.

  1216. CG says:

    The most heavily concentrated areas of Vietnamese and Korean-Americans in the country all have Democrats at the Congressional level. I don’t think the Ed Royce district in Orange County is too close to the top as far as concentration of Vietname-Americans in Southern California. That’s probably the Lou Correa district now. (Those in Ed Royce’s district would tend to be more affluent as well.)

    And my fellow Jewish-Americans now live nearly exclusively (PA 1 may be a sole exception, with the barely defeated Dem nominee facing charges of anti-Semitism) in House districts held by Democrats.

    A couple cycles ago that was far from the case.

  1217. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Here is the link to the Kotkin article again. The point is clear, pull in Asians. I would also suggest the successful Hispanic business class as well.

  1218. CG says:

    I see no real “signs of hope” for Republicans in California right now.

    To be fair, that might be the case even if Trump were not President.

  1219. CG says:

    Even in Illinois, as Democrats had unprecedented success last week in the Chicago suburbs and exurbs, there were traditional Democrat areas that moved towards Republicans, at least at the local level.

    One Democrat State House candidate in a competitive district Downstate ran on the fact that he voted for Trump.

  1220. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1250 CG, I did not vote for Trump for many of the reasons we are discussing. Nevertheless I think he did a lot of good tearing down the old guard establishment running the country that I considered putrid. There was also long overdue economic and regulatory reform.

    As have indicated before, reformers have a short shelf life. He is facing a difficult re-election, but if the Democrats put on a clown show the next two years, then Trump can be re-elected. Looking back, I am very happy he won instead of Clinton.

  1221. CG says:

    I left out the word “Downstate” in the first part. That’s clearly an important distinction.

    Rauner in losing by 15 points still won something like 85% of the counties in IL. (Four years ago, he won every one but Cook.)

  1222. CG says:

    I’ve never been someone who had a problem with the “old guard establishment.”

    Nobody has been or ever will be perfect, but I had been proud of the history of the Republican Party from 1854 until 2016 happened.

    I think America is and always has been great because of the “old guard establishment”, including its ability to redress past injustices and extend freedom and the blessings of liberty to those who had seen it denied.

    Trump is and always has been and always will be primarily about himself. To me, that is thoroughly un-American.

  1223. marc says:

    Well Corey after 16 years on and off this page it’s funny I began has the moderate and you the neonconservative, interesting how things change over the years.

    I always wonder whatever happen to our friend from Washington, I heard a awhile ago he became a Democrat, also likeable liberal Shaun.

  1224. marc says:

    And of course our favorite candidate Kristi Noem is now Governor of South Dakota.

  1225. CG says:

    In regards to GWB and the McCain funeral, I doubt he interacted with anyone there who specifically called him those things, including “war criminal” or who publicly advocated his impeachment.

    The person who called GWB that and who wanted him to be impeached was Donald J. Trump.

    But yes, in spite of that, George W. Bush was nice enough to attend Trump’s inauguration as well.

  1226. CG says:

    I’ve always been a conservative, since I was young, so “neo-conservative” or (neonconservative… where’s mnw when you need him?), apply to me, although that term does often get thrown around by extremists at both sides of the spectrum in relation to people who have something else in common with me.

    Not sure who mean from Washington. You aren’t referring to someone from back in the day are you?

  1227. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    When San Diego elected a Republican mayor in 2014 (Faulconer) he won 60% of the Asian vote, and did well with other demographic groups. His opponent was Latino.

    A lot of Asians in San Diego, particularly Filipinos, fought in the military and vote Republican.

    “Faulconer and his staff emphasize the time he spent communicating with groups and parts of the city that Republicans had otherwise ignored for decades. And the outreach proved to be more than a token effort.
    He opened a campaign office in southeastern San Diego, which has significant Hispanic and African-American populations. The campaign hired African-American, Hispanic, LGBT, and Asian-American staff — and still maintains that diversity in the mayor’s office. One adviser mentioned that Faulconer had met with local Somali elders at one point.
    Faulconer’s first television ad had him speaking directly to the camera — in Spanish. (He picked up the language in school and practiced while in Spain, though he acknowledged being far from fluent.)
    It worked. He won a quarter of the African-American vote, 60 percent of Asian-Americans, and a third of Latino votes.

    Since the, Faulconer has been a disaster of a mayor, but he continued the coalition formerly gave Republicans dominance in San Diego — carrying Asian vote and getting a good chunk of the African-American vote (which also has a lot of military).

  1228. marc says:

    Kyle that was his name

  1229. Tina says:


    Wp is reporting that Lady Daca, the DHS Secretary will be replaced.

  1230. marc says:

    Yeah Politics1 and here in the early days

  1231. CG says:

    The Republican Party in California (and other places) need to much more to put forward people like Faulconer then that have proven they can attract a wider coalition.

    Under Trump dominance of the party, that seems unlikely.

    Did Faulconer vote for Trump? I doubt it.

    I know for sure that the two most highly successful GOP Gubernatorial candidates in the nation, (considering the states they governed),Larry Hogan of MD and Charlie Baker of MA were and have remained solidly “NeverTrump.” Their wins should be very instructive, not that Republicans everywhere should walk away from principled position on issues like abortion.

    The OnlyTrump crowd would perhaps those states have Democrats as Governor to go along with Jeff Flake’s Senate seat, Mark Sanford’s, Carlos Curbelo’s, Mia Love’s, Eric Cantor’s House seats, etc.)

  1232. CG says:

    marc, I cannot say I remember you from Politics1, but those were fun times.

    I haven’t heard from Kyle in years, but last I knew, he was still a Republican (and still gay.)

  1233. CG says:

    I see right now that Kyle has an active Twitter. He’s definitely conservative, but I don’t see any mention of Trump. I might be afraid to search too deeply.

  1234. marc says:

    Trump was a reaction to Obama’s and how many in the party felt that they weren’t fighting hard enough against him. With no Obama there is no Trump and the GOP is still the party of Bush and Kasich

  1235. marc says:

    He should be in his 30’s now, I remember offering him and another poster a paid trip to CPaC after the 2004 election.

  1236. CG says:

    I would have thought that Republican domination in the 2014 midterms would have been a sign that there was a pretty strong opposition party to Obama.

    Considering how hard it is for a party to win three terms and what a terrible candidate Hillary turned out to be, I think there were several different and actual conservative Republicans who could have won the White House, with a far more impressive showing than Trump, and would have governed more effectively and without such perilous short-term and long-term problems present for the party.

    The party of “Bush and Kasich” (and many others) would not be facing such fundamental problems.

    (In Ohio, Kasich, who is still popular statewide, endorsed and campagined for DeWine at the end and that helped him win, while Trump clone Renacci openly rejected Kasich and lost)

    (GWB raised a lot of money for Republican candidates nationwide and appeared at fundraisers for them. So did Jeb Bush, who actively campaigned for both Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis in Florida.)

    But yes, “reactionary” politics is not uncommon. There could be a very, very liberal Democrat elected in 2020 as a “reaction” to Trump.

  1237. CG says:

    He’s probably 30 now. Which state are you in marc?

  1238. CG says:

    If you were on P1 back in the day, you may or may not know that the site owner Ron G. has morphed from a die-hard Howard Dean leftist to a pro-Kasich “center-right” type. (he is a top political advisor for Larry Hogan) His transformation is pretty remarkable and the Twitter feed he does is excellent for political information.

  1239. marc says:

    Wow that’s remarkable. I would have never guessed that. From hard left gay activist to Gay Republican.. what brought about that change

  1240. marc says:

    Ponte Verda Beach Florida.

  1241. lisab says:

    “But free health care!” line re the USSR. When she described the conditions in Soviet hospitals, he accused her of channeling American propaganda.”

    i have actually been in a soviet hospital … frisbee accident just before the soviets fell. it was not much different than a hospital in upstate ny.

    yes, it was probably worse, and i remember seeing a guy with a piece of machinery embedded in his arm, but actually it was not so bad.

    although … the amount of radiation they used when taking an xray of my ankle still makes me glow in the dark.

    they seemed to be very well trained doctors at least as far as basic medical care was concerned.

    later on my honeymoon, i caught a serious cold and they prescribed vodka … so perhaps standards have fallen

  1242. CG says:

    With Ron? Not sure. He has been friends with Hogan for decades. (He also is the person responsible for getting Scott Israel elected Sheriff in Broward County, so he has associations in both parties) He voted for Kasich in the primary and Evan McMullin in the general election though.. just like I did. It’s a long way from 2004 when he was claiming that there was never an excuse to vote for any Republican for any office.


  1243. marc says:

    Are you still in contact with ScottP, you and him use to have the best online arguements for years.

  1244. CG says:

    The revelation that lisab has been radiated by the Soviets explains her devotion to Donald Trump.

    Goodnight again.

  1245. lisab says:

    the thing is, the soviets did things that worked for the most part, but you would not want if you could avoid it

    for example, my friend had her appendix out in a soviet hospital. it was an emergency. they used a local instead of general anesthesia. why?

    well, it is MUCH MUCH safer. it also hurts like hell, but you won’t die.

    they tend to start by giving maximum dosages and work their way down too. in the usa doctors tend to prescribe minimal dosages and work their way up until they get results. a russian doctor will fill you with the maximum dosage of whatever and maybe reduce the dosage next time.

  1246. CG says:

    Scott and I have continued to insult each other online in recent years on another site, (one run by someone and populated by handful of liberals who migrated over from P1, although that site is withering on the vine and is now pretty much dead)

  1247. lisab says:

    you mistake realism for devotion.

    math does not lie. trump is by far the favourite to win in 2020. no one else is even close. check out the casino websites.

    however, he is under 50% to win. so that should make you happy.

  1248. lisab says:

    actually the only dem nominee that i can say that would probably make me vote for trump in 2020, is hillary (or warren)

    but that is not 100%, i could still vote 3rd party even then

    and i am only speculating about warren, i have not actually heard her out

  1249. lisab says:

    to be fair, i almost always vote 3rd party, sooooooo …

    no … on second thought i would probably vote against hillary

  1250. sandiegocitizen says:

    Life expectancy rates in the Soviet Union and Russia are historically very low. Believe in 1990s male lifespan actually fell into the high 50s age bracket. Perhaps those embracing socialism need to be reminded of this.

  1251. Bitterlaw says:

    SDC – Did socialism cause all those men to drink? Maybe. However, Russia was a hard drinking place like ng before 1917.

  1252. jason says:

    Corey is full of crap that any other Republican would have beaten Hillary.

    Only Trump would have beaten Hillary, Rubio might have made it close by winning a different set of states (CO, NH, NM, NV) but he certainly would not have won PA, MI and WI. Kasich or Jeb would have lost in landslides.

    Which brings us to 2020. While I don’t disagree with many of the criticisms leveled at Trump for his personality and rhetoric, I think any R or conservative that voted for a Dem or didn’t vote in 2018 is a moron, do they really think electing Nancy Pelosi and far left moonbats like Sinema and Gillum and Beto and others that came close or won will advance the cause of conservatism?

    I still see Trump as the ONLY R that could possible put together a winning coalition that would avoid a Dem victory in 2020. That may change if something momentous comes out of Mueller, etc. but barring any bombshells we either unite behind Trump or forfeit the election.

  1253. jason says:

    The party of “Bush and Kasich” (and many others) would not be facing such fundamental problems.”

    Actually, the problems would be much worse.

    Hillary would have been elected and would have appointed a liberal SCOTUS. There would have been no check to that kind of power, the Dems would get open borders and everything they wanted by judicial decisions.

    Rs would continue to lose elections with no end in sight. And with a SCOTUS signing off on voting law changes the Dems would implement there would be little chance of a comeback.

    The thought that Bush and Kasich in any way could mobilize enough R votes to win a GE is ridiculous. I voted for Kasich in the PA Primary to stop what I thought was sure loser Trump, but I realize now I was wrong…if I wanted to win the GE Kasich would never have done it.

    The fact Corey still thinks a horrible candidate like Jeb was going to win a GE shows how little you can trust his judgment. Completely irrational.

  1254. Phil says:

    With regard to 2016 I agree completely with Jason that Trump is the only one who would have beaten Hillary in 2016. I thought he was sure a loser at the time, and I was completely wrong. I supported Rubio simply because I felt he was the only one who had a shot. Rubio would have made Virginia and Colorado closer, but I doubt he would have actually won either state. At the same time no way he would have carried Pa and Michigan. Much less appeal to working class voters. Wisconsin? Maybe, but even that wouldn’t have been enough.

    This time around, I don’t know. Democrats are going to pour millions and millions into Michigan and Pennsylvania. Trump will keep Ohio and Iowa for sure as well as NC.

    Trump’s problem will be in the suburbs and how much more support he has lost there. he can’t bleed much more and still carry Michigan and Pa. Haley would shore that up without a doubt, but at what cost to Trump’s blue collar base?

    Going to be a tough road either way. It will be much easier if Democrats nominate a Kamala Harris type.

  1255. Marv says:

    Fox reports recount underway in Broward County.

  1256. lisab says:

    It will be much easier if Democrats nominate a Kamala Harris type.

    she is actually the odds-on favourite right now to be the dem nominee

    and trump is favoured to win that matchup.

  1257. lisab says:

    Democrats are going to pour millions and millions into Michigan and Pennsylvania

    i can see them taking pa pretty easily

    but michigan is a much harder sell, depending on who the dem nominee is.

    if they nominate someon like biden, i think they win michigan. but if they nominate warren or harris … i think the advantage goes to trump.

  1258. Phil says:

    The chance that a 13K vote difference will be overturned in a recount is just about zero. Nothing like that has ever been even close to happening in election history.

    Snipes and her electoral pirates needed to manufacture another 13K votes BEFORE the machine recount began. They gave it their best shot, and had Republicans not woken up when they did they might have made it.

    It will be R 53-47 in the Senate.

    In 2020 Democrats will target Colorado, Arizona, NC and, yes, Texas to try to get it to 50-50 with a Democratic VP giving them control. Problem is even if they sweep those states they are a sure bet to lose Alabama so that explains the desperate attempt at theft in Florida. They needed it to have a shot in 2020 of Senate control.

    Democratic dream in 2020 is to occupy the WH, control the House, and narrowly get the Senate so as to remove the filibuster. They could then do anything they like including open borders, gun grabbing, and single payer. In 2020, they could very well get the first two WH & House, but it looks like they will come up short in the Senate.

    Thank God.

  1259. dblaikie says:

    I have a couple of thoughts about the midterms and 2020. The first thought is personal. At least as far as the House goes I listened to my heart far more than my head. In hindsight I see the what the dems did in getting candidates who could be stealth liberals. That was smart. But is was also dumb in that in about 20 to 30 districts they have Representatives who got elected as moderates but by the force of sheer inertia will vote with the extreme liberal power base of the Democratic Party. Frankly there is about an 80% chance that they will overreach with investigations and put those new seats at risk. Time will tell.

    Trump will have to have a two pronged attack in his reelection. First he needs to play defense big time against folks like Schiff. Perhaps now that he has regained control of the justice dept. he will respond with investigations of his own. But most importantly he needs to govern in those areas where he can — Judicial Appointments, Foreign Policy, Trade Negotiations, Executive Orders. That is the way to win over the suburbs by simple success in areas that matter! Keep the economy humming and use his veto pen to protect it.

    Of course he needs to continue to fight the media, but now the place where he has to concentrate his oratorical fire is at a Congress which will need to be branded as a “do nothing.” If he is able to do and as well as protect the economy then Michigan and Wisconsin and others will fall into place.

    However, sadly, one state that will not fall into place is Nevada. In talking with my family still living there I am persuaded that the Silver State has become Eastern California. The ironic thing is that tens of thousands of people are moving into Nevada to escape the lunacy of California. Yet they can’t seem to pull the GOP lever. But you reap what you sew, the current talk and fear is that the new Governor will impose a State Income Tax to funds his big liberal Government ideas. Who knows if that happens maybe those new citizens of the silver state will change. But if they don’t Nevada is not purple — It is blue!

  1260. dblaikie says:

    One positive thing about 2020 is that Trump will not allow the GOP to be out spent. He has already built up a huge war chest. In fact next election it may be the Dems who are outspent.

  1261. Phil says:

    Now, confirm the dozens of judicial nominees pending confirmation votes. Lindsey Graham will be the new chairman of the judiciary committee and thanks to the Kavanaugh stunt he’s inclined to go full speed ahead. They didn’t realize it at the time but Spartacus, Feinstein, Harris and company poked a bear and it will backfire horribly on them.

  1262. gameboy says:


    As I said before the goal of the Dems is not the machine count, but the hand count. Manufacturing 13,000 votes out of 8 million cast won’t be too difficult for them. You know the counting will continue until they get what they need. Scott will have to hope the counting sham gets shut down by a court before that happens. Will be interesting to watch.

  1263. dblaikie says:

    The best thing that the Dems could do to keep their majority would be to work with Trump on immigration and infrastructure. If they are smart enough to do that then Trump could still win the election but not flip the House. But they despise him so much I don’t believe that will happen.

  1264. lisab says:

    trump will have advantages this time too.

    he will have a lot more money and presumably a gotv campaign, which he did not have against hillary. he is likely to have $500-600 million to spend on the general, if not more.

    he has a lot more power over the gop now, and he has the power of being the incumbent.

    if the dems put up someone extreme, which is at least 50-50, trump has a very good chance.

  1265. dblaikie says:

    If Al Gore couldn’t overturn a 1000 votes I just can’t see Nelson doing it. Perhaps if Rubio hadn’t outed them. But now with the eyes of world on them no way they are going to manufacture 13000 votes.

  1266. michael corleone says:

    If Trump is winning MI, he already won WI and PA. PA is and remains the keystone. He needs to win it.

  1267. dblaikie says:

    1299 Most of the counties in Florida are red. And the blue counties outside of Broward and Palm Beach are not part of this mess. Even Miami Dade has not had any issues. No the 13000 will have to come out of those two counties. So it is not 8000000. There is no way that I can see.

  1268. lisab says:

    michigan can actually be easier than wisconsin because of the factories. michael moore of all people makes a great point. the people in michigan want factory jobs.

    wisconin and minnesota are not quite as industrial. minnesota is actually very big into healthcare, so unless trump does something with healthcare, it will be blue.

  1269. lisab says:

    make michigan unemployed again is the dem party’s basic slogan

  1270. sane_voter says:

    MN is also in the mix for 2020.

  1271. lisab says:

    huge fires in california … malibu burning down

    other states and canada fine

    must be global warming.

  1272. Phil says:

    I disagree about Democrats having any shot at overturning 13K votes. They are past the point of “finding votes” This is a recount phase. The time to “find” votes was prior to turning in their county totals Saturday at noon.

  1273. lisab says:

    MN is also in the mix for 2020.

    i live in minnesota and i would love to say it would go for trump over warren … but in reality, i don’t think it would.

    it is in many ways just a giant rich white suburb.

    i am not saying trump has no chance, but everything here revolves around the mayo clinic and farming, and trump has not really helped either.

  1274. lisab says:

    for example, in upstate ny you can still see a LOT of trump signs.

    in minnesota, you don’t see much of that. maybe i have seen a couple of bumper stickers, but mostly it is not a redneck state, at least in the south.

    it could be different up in the rural areas.

  1275. lisab says:

    btw, in 1780 the sky was so dark in new england that people had to light candles in their home from noon onwards.

    the darkness was caused by massive fires out west.

    yes, we have had forest fires before.

  1276. jason says:

    Monica destroys Bill Clinton and his chief enabler Hillary as collateral damage.

    Lewinsky, on Bill Clinton:

    “If you want to know what power looks like, watch a man safely, even smugly, do interviews for decades, without ever worrying whether he will be asked the questions he doesn’t want to answer.”

  1277. jason says:

    ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — A recently defeated Republican congressman is blaming the Democratic House takeover on the late Republican Sen. John McCain’s vote against repealing the Affordable Care Act.

    First-term Minnesota Rep. Jason Lewis argued in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece first published Sunday that McCain’s vote against repealing the federal health care law last year “killed the reform effort.” Lewis said the vote also unleashed a wave of Democratic attack ads against Republicans across the country on health care issues.”

  1278. Paul says:

    1314: Right. Because most voters concerned about healthcare are voting Democrat because they want less coverage.

  1279. lisab says:

    most voters concerned about healthcare are voting Democrat because they want less coverage.

    if you have a job, you are worried about the cost and your deductible

    if you are on welfare or a government employee (a democrat), you are just worried that you might lose your absolutely free world-class healthcare that used to be for people with jobs.

  1280. lisab says:

    in ny, as a teacher, my copay was $20, for just about anything.

    in massachusetts, i think it was free! i was unemployed at the time, so i am not sure i had to pay anything.

    in minnesota … blood test, $800!

    i am not a certified teacher here, i do work for a public school, but still … obamacare sucks if you are not in a government union or on welfare.

  1281. Paul says:

    Or you are a 50-year-old self-employed business owner who needs to continue to have insurance for a family of five and two of them have pre-existing conditions.

  1282. marc says:

    FL Recount – Flagler County (between Jacksonville and Daytona Beach) is done.

    Basically, no changes.
    Scott – +1
    Nelson – +1
    DeSantis – 0
    Gillum – (-1)

  1283. Paul says:

    Not that it’s super great. It’s still $1000 per month but coverage is pretty good for our plan and it covers therapies for my son who is Autistic.

    Before Obamacare, our family had insurance that was $1600 per month and coverage was sucky.

    Sometimes, small improvement is better than nothing.

  1284. Paul says:

    And before Obamacare, we were stuck with the same insurance each year even as the rate kept increasing. If we were to try to change companies, we wouldn’t be covered because of pre-existing conditions so were locked into what we had.

  1285. lisab says:

    Or you are a 50-year-old self-employed business owner who needs to continue to have insurance for a family of five and two of them have pre-existing conditions.

    well get ready to pay a lot more

    because you can

    and we have yet begun to tax you, since you are rich and all, you don’t deserve a subsidized health insurance plan 🙂

  1286. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    1308. “huge fires in california … malibu burning down other states and canada fine must be global warming.”

    California has always had fires. The early Spanish settlers wrote about them. Fire is a natural part of the ecosystem, and is required to keep it healthy and for many plants to germinate. Some of California’s biggest fires were in the early 20th century.

    The problem now is people are moving into fire prone areas. You build a house on two acres of chaparral, its inevitably going to face a fire sometime.

    Another major problem is fire suppression activity, and failure to allow brush to be cleared. If you put out all small fires, the vegetation grows to an extent it becomes a tinderbox for a big fire.

    People like to blame climate change, because they don’t want to admit the real cause — human stupidity.

  1287. NYCmike says:

    “And before Obamacare, we were stuck with the same insurance each year even as the rate kept increasing. If we were to try to change companies, we wouldn’t be covered because of pre-existing conditions so were locked into what we had.”

    -YES, Paul, when government gets involved, higher costs and scarcity of options occur.

    Maybe you will try to learn a lesson at an advanced age.

  1288. NYCmike says:

    Isn’t it California policy to NOT ALLOW clearing of brush and such activity, due to environmental concerns?

  1289. Wes says:

    I’m going to say it:

    Trump won’t carry MI, WI, and PA again. The bloom is off the rise, and Trump won’t have an entitled slacker like Hillary as an opponent in two years.

    He needs to change his public persona and has shown no indication he can adapt as his aggressive demeanor has reached the point of diminishing returns. It’s the end of the line for the Trump Administration.

    The President lacks the introspection or perspicacity to make a course correction as demonstrated by his post-election actions. He will bleed in the suburbs further and lose in two years—simply because he can’t stop being the petulant, puerile jackanapes Americans have grown tired of.

  1290. Paul says:

    NYCmike: Perhaps at your advance age you could learn reading comprehension. “BEFORE Obamacare, we were stuck with the same insurance…”

    With Obamacare, we have the exchange which continues to provide a number of options where we are located. We shop to find the one that will give us the best coverage.

  1291. CG says:

    Maybe Jason Lewis should not blame the late John McCain for the loss of his seat and should perhaps take some introspection that his years as a local Rush Limbaugh wannabe talk radio host who regularly referred to women as “sluts” just caught up to him in a district that Trump had lost in 2016.

  1292. Wes says:

    I know, I know.

    Dems can overreach.

    That’s exactly what Republicans were hoping in 2007 and 2008. How’d that work out?

    The economy will save Trump.

    That was an undetectable benefit to the GOP last week.

    Trump has the advantage of incumbency.

    Jimmy Carter and GHWB had similarly low approval ratings in their terms. Incumbency did nothing for them.

    Democrats are far left, and Americans will reject them.

    Obama was the furthest left President ever and trounced McCain as GWB cratered in popularity. Americans will simply stop listening to Trump the more they dislike him.

    Trump will have plenty of money.

    If Dems can pour ungodly amounts of money into a Texas Senate race to enable a close loss for an extremist Congressman, they’re going to have no problem funding their opponent.

    Trump still has his enthusiastic base.

    True, but everyone else has abandoned him.

    Trump wins exactly one way: by changing the public perception of him. He has not done that and looks at best unlikely to do so.

    The current Donald Trump is essentially a political Dead Man Walking. If Trump morphs into a facile, inoffensive Bill Clinton-style pol he can. I see no evidence of his ability to his ability to make such a course correction.

  1293. Wes says:

    You forget, Corey, one thing.

    To the Tea Party and Trumpkins it’s always someone else’s fault. Personal accountability is alien to them. It was the dead man who destroyed the party’s chance in a chamber he hadn’t served in since 1987.

  1294. CG says:

    It’s been very instructive watching the OnlyTrumpers here the past week.

    Some of them have already slinked away though.

  1295. CG says:

    “Happy Veterans’ Day Sen. McCain! You cost me my job…..”

  1296. Wes says:

    Hm. Maybe an unpopular President and poor allocation of resources (VA-10, anyone?) had more to do with the loss of the House than a Senator who died in August.

    Senate Republicans did fairly well and were the clear bright spot of Election Night.

  1297. Phil says:


    Sadly, I have to agree, Wes.

  1298. NYCmike says:

    I should mention jason’s points above – well said.

  1299. Wes says:

    I hated to have to write that, Phil. I’m not a cheerleader though but an analyst. I have to call it as I see it. Trump is a political liability to himself.

  1300. CG says:

    Here’s the thing—

    Had McCain voted yes in July and skinny repeal passed the Senate, it had already been declared DOA in the House by the Freedom Caucus and people like Jason Lewis.

    Only a much more restrictive bill would have passed the House as long as the Freedom Caucus refused to give in and Democrats would have run against how unpopular Congressional action on health care to “rip away coverage” for millions of Americans had been.

    Had people like Jason Lewis had their way, the issue would have wound up hurting Republicans more than it did. A dozen or more seats might have been lost and Democrats would have the Senate now too.

    But there’s nothing to get the Trump fans bucked up about themselves than attacking a recently dead war hero who had called out DJT for what he is; the unforgiveable sin in their eyes.

  1301. NYCmike says:

    “CG” is now saying how the Freedom Caucus would have voted…….because you know…..more “mean” words??

  1302. CG says:

    The Freedom Caucus said they would vote no. They *did* vote no, on the first bill, which would have passed the Senate. So, how are they not equally to “blame?”

    They openly said we cannot afford to cover people with pre-existing conditions. You said the same thing here a couple days ago yourself.

  1303. Wes says:

    Isn’t it amazing how Trump undercut the messaging on Obamacare repeal, but Mikey blames the House leadership for accomplishing nothing in the face of a President who wouldn’t back them up and help craft a coherent PR strategy?

  1304. NYCmike says:

    “Had people like Jason Lewis had their way, the issue would have wound up hurting Republicans more than it did. A dozen or more seats might have been lost and Democrats would have the Senate now too.”

    -Yup, we keep hearing such b*llsh*t……the simple fact is Obamacare is terrible long-term policy.

    It should have been ripped out of its roots.

    BUT ALAS, Republicans wanted to legislate around the good parts……you know….the parts which were never individually voted on by our representatives.

    Timidity, along with an unpopular person in the White House, got us dealt a bad blow in the House.

  1305. CG says:

    The logic behind blaming Congressional Republicans failing to completely kill Obamacare is exactly the same as claiming PETA hates McDonald’s because they got rid of Supersizing burgers.

  1306. NYCmike says:

    Wes joins with “CG” about “mean” words…..why am I not surprised?

    Didn’t MD used to call you a snowflake?

    He was correct in that assessment.

  1307. marc says:

    Look for some leadership shake up in the Senate.

    of course Mitch stays Majority Leader, But John Coryn will be replaced by John Thune has Maj Whip. Dr. Barrasso becomes Conference Chair with Deb Fisher has Co Chair. Todd Young will be task to hold the Senate has RNSC chair.

    Among the committees.

    Lindsey Graham becomes Judiciary Chair
    Grassley moves to Finance
    Wicker becomes Commerce Chair
    Risch becomes Foreign Relations Chair

    Also President Trump has announce that he has nominated OIRA administration Director Noami Rao to fill the seat vacated by Brett Kavanaugh on the US Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit

  1308. CG says:

    So, don’t have it both ways NYC.

    Just admit that you wanted something enacted that would have been unpopular. It may have been the right thing to do, but it would have been even more unpopular. Elections have consequences.

    Since nobody is making the claim that conservatives stayed home on Tuesday, none of this deflection makes any sense. People are just in denial that people came out to vote specifically against Donald Trump in large numbers.

  1309. Wes says:

    Um, no, Mikey. Repeal of Obamacare required the messaging to get people behind it. Once Trump mouthed off and gave Dems talking points to use against Republicans repeal was doomed.

    Of course I can understand how a simple understanding of the need for coherent messaging would be beyond your ability to comprehend.

  1310. NYCmike says:

    The House and Senate had an option – do what they had said they would do for 7 years, and make Trump sign or veto the bill – somehow, words made them change their promises made to their voters.

    That should NOT have happened.

    Only a couple politicians in my lifetime have changed a city/state/country in a big way: Rudy, Scott Walker, and Obama.

    Rudy and Walker had good policy which has made their respective locales experience fantastic results.

    Obama was/is a Big Government ideologue, and his policy initiative was responsible for the decimation of his party across the land. Ripping that terrible policy out would have been a short-term painful situation, which is why it should have been done in the first month of the new admin, so that you have like 18 months to fix it.

    They chose timidity.

    The results are not surprising.

  1311. Wes says:

    See how criticizing Trump makes me a “snowflake” in Mikey’s eyes? It’s not about results or Trump’s negative effect on policy initiatives. I must be a “snowflake” because I dared criticize Jim Jones—I mean, Donald Trump.

  1312. NYCmike says:

    “Um, no, Mikey. Repeal of Obamacare required the messaging to get people behind it. Once Trump mouthed off and gave Dems talking points to use against Republicans repeal was doomed.”

    -Words….that is what scared off politicians elected on promises to repeal and replace Obamacare.



  1313. CG says:

    Battered spouse territory for some. Their man can literally do no wrong.

    The words? He didn’t mean it!

  1314. NYCmike says:

    Criticizing Trump has ZERO to do with being called a snowflake.

    You are a snowflake because you are willing to accept the premise that Trump’s words were so powerful that it neutered Congress in their attempt to do what they campaigned on.

    SAD! and WEAK!

  1315. NYCmike says:

    “Their man can literally do no wrong.”

    -He does plenty wrong.

    In the case with repealing Obamacare, he never got the chance, did he, which is the problem.

    Congress should have forced him to sign or veto, but they chose to be timid.

    They chose NOT to carry thru their campaign promises because Trump tweeted!

  1316. Wes says:

    Ever heard of the term “bully pulpit,” Mikey? Of course not. Both words have more than four letters in them.

    In any event, Teddy Roosevelt first used the term during his presidency as an analogy for the President’s ability to talk directly to the American people and shape public policy. Once Trump used his bully pulpit to give Dems ammunition against congressional Republicans for trying to keep their campaign promises he undercut the effort and doomed it.

    I realize such a thing is beyond your ability to comprehend.

  1317. CG says:

    This matter is so simple , it is amazing that it cannot be grasped.

    An overwhelming majority of Congressional Republicans voted to repeal Obamacare.

    Many of them lost their seats because of it because their vote was unpopular in their district. The constituents want Obamacare now. It doesn’t matter if they are dumb to think that way. They still vote.

    So, not only should they be grateful they lost their seats, they should blame John McCain for it.

  1318. NYCmike says:

    “Trump said” – “CG” takes every utterance from Trump as gospel truth……except when “CG” says he is always lying.

  1319. Wes says:

    Mikey, read what I wrote in 1353. You may have an epiphany and understand the basics of public messaging; however, given your lack of cogency or perspicacity on literally everything else I’m not holding out too much hope.

  1320. NYCmike says:

    Let’s see if Nancy Pelosi and Chuckie Schumer have heard about the “bully pulpit”, or if they will write any legislation they darn well please, as any majority party in Congress has the power to do.

    Does the President control Congress?

    Can he force them to not send him bills they promised their voters because of “mean” words?

    YES or NO?

  1321. NYCmike says:

    The bully pulpit doesn’t supersede the Constitutional powers inherent in each chamber of Congress.

    I understand fully well what it is……and it is not more powerful than what is written in the Constitution.

  1322. Wes says:

    I’ve been saying for years you need to sue your brain surgeon for your botched lobotomy, Mikey. Reading your insanely unintelligent drivel today makes it clear to me I need to repeat that to you.

  1323. CG says:

    When a President has his party in the majority of both Houses, yes, they control the Congress. Full stop. Especially when that President has a Twitter Army ready to end the career of anyone who dares oppose him.

    Now, we have divided government, and Trump is less popular. Very little will get done legislatively over the next two years, unless Trump moves well to the left. So, root for little to get done. He may very well move left. If he does, NYC will again praise him for it.

  1324. CG says:

    Meant to say Trump is less *powerful* in divided govt. Less popular speaks for itself.

  1325. CG says:

    As has always been the case, NYC needs to take a Government 101 class somewhere but is unwilling to do so.

  1326. Wes says:

    No one claimed the bully pulpit supersedes Constitutional authority. Fear of very real retaliation from voters given impetus by the words of the nominal highest elected official of a political party has a decidedly clear effect on actions though.

    I’m not surprised you can’t understand that and have to blame people whose efforts the President himself undercut.

  1327. CG says:

    This isn’t rocket surgery.

    In many districts, voters punished their Republican U.S House member for reasons including the vote they cast to repeal Obamacare, i.e precisely the vote conservatives wanted them to make.

    Dave Brat of the Freedom Caucus lost after his hard-line stance on what Obamacare repeal must involve and Tom MacArthur of the “Tuesday Group” lost after trying to work with the White House for compromise legislation that suburban Republicans could support.

    In other districts, the Congressmember retired rather than to face a likely defeat, either in a general election or a primary.

    In a couple districts, Trump got involved out of personal pique to defeat the incumbent Republican House member, and after the primary, the seat went to the Democrats, because the new GOP candidate was tied too closely to Trump.

  1328. ReadyFirst says:

    Rocket Surgery – SMH. I was told at orientation we weren’t allowed to mix metaphors at HHR.

  1329. NYCmike says:

    Learn from Rudy and Walker.


    Learn from the Bush team of half measures to grow government, but more slowly than the Democrats.

    I see which one you like.

    Trump should have been forced, by Congress, to make a decision.


  1330. NYCmike says:

    “As has always been the case, NYC needs to take a Government 101 class somewhere but is unwilling to do so.”

    GOV101 – if President Tweets, Congress becomes impotent

    Got it.

  1331. CG says:

    I don’t get this Walker/Rudy analogy.

    Whatever they might have accomplished in a time or place did not hold up.

    Walker went national, failed miserably, and then lost at home.

    Rudy went national, failed miserably, and is about as popular in New York City today as Mookie Betts.

  1332. NYCmike says:

    Not sure which civics class the people at HHR take, but please let me know:

    Will Pelosi be neutered by Trump?

    If NO, how is it possible, if he TWEETS?

    Bully Pulpit?

    Is that in a different penumbra of the Constitution?

  1333. NYCmike says:

    “I don’t get this Walker/Rudy analogy.”

    -NYC before Rudy, NYC after Rudy.

    Wisconsin budget before Walker, Wisconsin budget after Walker.

    If Republicans ripped Obamacare out, they would have had 1+ years to craft legislation, or at least shown their ideas to the voters.

    People like you decided “fixing” Obamacare was a better course.

  1334. NYCmike says:

    Need to leave for a bit.


  1335. Wes says:

    Mikey honestly thinks the media won’t run defense for Pelosi against Trump While using his ill-considered statements against Republicans.

    We’re not exactly dealing with a smart person here.

  1336. CG says:

    Very simple answers.

    Pelosi’s base already hates Trump. If he Tweets about her, (or whomever the SPeaker winds up being) she will become more popular with them and more able to keep .

    How can you not distinguish between this and someone in the same party as the President who is dependent on the same supporters.

    Pelosi wants Trump to call her names on Twitter. She is praying for it. Paul Ryan lived in fear over it.

  1337. Wes says:

    By the way, Mikey, Rudy and Walker were on board with reforms and didn’t give their opposition ammunition to scuttle them. Maybe you and the Donald could learn from them.

  1338. CG says:

    During NYC’s beloved first term of Rudy and his reforms, during the middle years, he was openly supporting Mario Cuomo and Bill Clinton.

    Was that consistent with what you liked about what he did?

  1339. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The main issue in the Midterm elections was not Obamacare, it was about Trump. He polarized the electorate, and caused Democrats to turn out in mass. He needs to tone down the abrasiveness, and start emphasizing the good economy and things he has accomplished. He seems to relish in controversy, but the American people have tired of it. Americans don’t want to live in continual chaos.

  1340. Wes says:

    Dems were united on Obamacare and benefited from that unity.

    Trump wasn’t a team player on what Republicans were doing and destroyed their messaging.

    It’s not hard to see how a united front overcomes a fractured one every time.

  1341. Wes says:

    Mostly right, SDC, but Obamacare was a factor. Republicans couldn’t effectively sell repeal and replace because the President made it impossible.

    That’s why I think Trump is a one termer. He can’t control himself enough to make a clear case for anything.

  1342. CG says:

    SDC’s post is pretty much on the money but asking Trump to tone down his abrasiveness is like asking Dolly Parton to perform in a burqua.

    It’s never going to happen. Trump wouldn’t be Trump otherwise. He cannot be changed or salvaged. Even if he somehow wins in 2020, which looks doubtful, Republicans in the long-term need to move away from him or they will die.

  1343. Wes says:

    Trump wrote a book called The Art of the Deal. He should have taken his own advice.

    One closes a deal by building value.

    It doesn’t happen if conflicting messages undercut the central selling point.

  1344. Wes says:

    Of course as we know in two years when the Donald gives self-serving, blustery concession speech, Mikey BayernFan, the other Trumpkins will say Trump was in no way at fault, but the congressional Republicans will be 100% to blame because his smarmy abrasiveness will be a complete non factor in his defeat.

  1345. Wes says:

    New thread.