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Biden Leads Trump By 12% Nationally, Warren Dominates Dems in IA

Donald Trump’s favorite cable new network, Fox News, is showing him no love in their latest poll.

PRESIDENT – NATIONAL (Fox News)
Joe Biden (D) 50%
Donald Trump (R-inc) 38%

Elizabeth Warren (D) 46%
Donald Trump (R-inc) 37%

Bernie Sanders (D) 48%
Donald Trump (R-inc) 39%

Kamala Harris (D) 45%
Donald Trump (R-inc) 39%

PRESIDENT – NATIONAL – DEM PRIMARY (Fox News)
Joe Biden 31%
Elizabeth Warren 20%
Bernie Sanders 10%
Kamala Harris 8%
Cory Booker 3%
Andrew Yang 3%
Pete Buttigieg 3%
Amy Klobuchar 2%
Beto O’Roukle 2%
Everyone Else 1% or less

This poll was done August 11-13 among 1013 registered voters. Meanwhile, Change Research has a new poll out of Iowa claiming Elizabeth Warren has opened up a double-digit lead while Biden maintains a double-digit lead in South Carolina.

PRESIDENT – IOWA – DEM CAUCUS (Change)
Elizabeth Warren 28%
Joe Biden 17%
Bernie Sanders 17%
Pete Buttigieg 13%
Kamala Harris 8%
Cory Booker 3%
Beto O’Rourke 3%
Everyone Else 2% or less

PRESIDENT – SOUTH CAROLINA – DEM PRIMARY (Change)
Joe Biden 36%
Elizabeth Warren 17%
Bernie Sanders 16%
Kamala Harris 12%
Pete Buttigieg 5%
Cory Booker 4%
Everyone Else 2% or less

The IA poll was done August 9-11 while the SC poll was done August 9-12 among Democratic caucus or primary voters.

Posted by Dave at 9:24 pm
Filed under: General | Comments (472)

472 Responses to “Biden Leads Trump By 12% Nationally, Warren Dominates Dems in IA”

  1. Cash Cow TM says:

    UNO

  2. Proud Obamacon says:

    WOW, devastating polls for the pussy grabber!! Can’t even get out of the 30’s, and in a Fukks News poll to boot !

    #BLUE.WAVE.COMIN’
    #RESIST!!!

  3. Bitterlaw says:

    Robbie is not a troll. He is a Republican who hates Trump. They do exist.

  4. Phil says:

    He’s a Never Trumper.who is absolutely a troll.

  5. CG says:

    Are the rules of the comment section that being NeverTrump automatically makes one a troll?

  6. Phil says:

    No. Just the ones that mutter left wing talking points on a daily basis.

  7. CG says:

    So, being a NeverTrump Republican is not the same as being a left-winger?

    Can a conservative oppose Trump, including obviously not voting for him?

  8. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Someone who constantly parrots far left talking points is not a conservative Republican. I know many NeverTrumpers; I was one and did not vote for Trump. Can tell the difference. Definitely a troll.

  9. CG says:

    What opposition to Trump is allowed here that is not a “left wing talking point?”

    It just seems like *some* people want an echo-chamber, akin to Daily Kos, with anybody deviating from the pro-Trump line to be moderated or excluded.

    Sites like that for Trump definitely exist. It’s just a bit odd that people here cry and moan so much about “trolls”, who simply do not like Trump on this site, when you probably would have to say the same thing about the guy who runs the whole thing.

  10. CG says:

    Robbie has his own style but I do not know what can legitimately be claimed said by him as a “far left talking point” or not in line with mainstream conservatism, such as the ideology and values that dominated the Republican Party before Trump took it over and turned it into something else.

    It seems to me like the people who most strongly defend Trump on here are those with the positions on many issues that would have always been considered “left” before Trump changed the Republican Party.

    So, I don’t think Robbie qualifies as an ideological “troll” and I’d say the same thing about myself of course, and note that the same people who call him a “troll” have also said it about me (as well as theories that we are the same person.) Pretty goofy all around. I would be interested to know what “far left” stances I take for instance, besides opposing Donald Trump, which I do as a conservative, but also as an American.

  11. Phil says:

    Well. I’ll tell you, when you constantly on a daily basis quote sources and post tweets from the Washington Post, MSNBC, CNN, Washington Post, The Atlantic, Salon etc etc you are a little more than anti Trump. He doesn’t have to do that. Hell, you don’t even do that. He’s unique. He’s a troll.

    ….of course, I don’t like the MF. He has basically called me a racist. Something that would come out of the mouth of AOC. I have no use for him.

  12. Phil says:

    I’ve never called you a troll. You don’t like Trump. I get it but he goes out of his way to incite. That’s the definition of a troll.

  13. CG says:

    t’s difficult for some people to not be “incited” on the internet. Of course that goes both ways. Up through 2016, almost everyone who took part here was very anti-Trump with a small group of pro-Trump “inciters” such as Don.dero, etc. Now, he would be a conquering hero here.

    It doesn’t make Robbie a liberal and dismissing every sort of source that is not pro-Trump out of hand is just trying to ignore reality. If the facts are wrong, then challenge on that.

    As i said, there are lots of moderated websites where people can chat and not have their opinions or thoughts challenged.

  14. Phil says:

    Smug, Snarky, condescending, and morally superior. Yeah, let’s just say Robbie “has his own style”. Yeah, that’s it.

    I have no use for him. I’ll leave it there.

  15. Bitterlaw says:

    Robbie was here many years before Trump was a Republican. I think his act is tired now but he was not a troll years ago. He is not a troll now.

  16. Bitterlaw says:

    Just because I do not think Robbie is a troll does not mean that I agree with him. The choice in 2020 is between scumbag Trump who is a mixture of good (Judges and economic growth) and bad (trade wars)a dangerous liberal. That’s it.

  17. Tina says:

    Gaffer flattened by Ben Shapiro. I thought they were pullling Gaffer from events.

    Ben Shapiro
    ?
    @benshapiro
    Remember that time the Obama administration barred a member of Israeli Knesset from entering the United States in 2012? Because you were vice president at the time. https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1162074225265512448
    Joe Biden
    ?
    @JoeBiden
    I have always been a stalwart supporter of Israel—a vital partner that shares our democratic values. No democracy should deny entry to visitors based on the content of their ideas—even ideas they strongly object to. And no leader of the free world should encourage them to do so.

    14.8K
    2:31 PM – Aug 15, 2019

  18. Tina says:

    Rudy Giuliani
    @RudyGiuliani
    · 9h
    It’s now being reported Biden never showed up for his competing rally in Manchester, NH. But no one seems to have noticed because all 200 people were sleeping. So far no one has located Sleepy Joe. If you see him please call the DNC, they are counting on him.

  19. Phil says:

    Not a good poll for Joe in Iowa. I just don’t know how reliable an on line pole is.

  20. John says:

    According to SportsBettingDime is now “-130 the shortest his odds have been during this election cycle”

    https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/politics/us-presidential-election-odds/

  21. John says:

    22….excuse me, Trump’s odds that is.

  22. Wes says:

    This is from a particularly stupid poster on RRH:

    2002 is simply explained by a president with a 70% approval rating and a rally around the flag moment. No reason to think that democratic obstruction played much of a role.

    Republicans hammered the Daschle Senate RELENTLESSLY that year on a multitude of fronts: obstruction of judges, failure to take up popular legislation passed by the House, and a sense that the Senate was actively hindering prosecution of the War on Terror.

    Of course the fact that GWB was at 66% on Election Day didn’t hurt one bit, but to argue Republicans didn’t attack Democrats as obstructionists and make that a major campaign issue is a complete disconnect from reality.

  23. NYCmike says:

    “CG”,

    I linked to a piece in the last thread. It was from a writer that Robbie linked to. The article, from 2016, spoke about how the next President, Hillary or Trump, could make it easier for unions to organize, and he thought that was a good thing.

    I guess the fact that Trump has not made it easier for unions to organize is an issue that “conservative Republicans” like you and Robbie don’t care about.

  24. NYCmike says:

    “According to SportsBettingDime”

    -Along with the polling in November 2016, this makes a 2nd data point which I looked at, but didn’t really put weight on, when I made my prediction that Trump would win the Presidency…………as opposed to Wes, who thought Hillary would win.

  25. Wes says:

    Congratulations, Mikey!

    Out of the three presidential elections since I’ve been here I called one wrong.

    Now what were your predictions in 2008 and 2012 while we’re discussing bad calls in presidential races?

  26. NYCmike says:

    #28 – I don’t really remember if I made a prediction on HHR, but probably incorrect, as I would have went with my heart instead of my head.

    It won’t be the last time I am wrong. Hopefully, I can even my record up in 2020.

  27. NYCmike says:

    https://twitter.com/MZHemingway/status/1162183698105733121

    -“CG” and Robbie, true “conservative Republicans”, have no problem with the NY TImes moving on to the next narrative they will push…….Trump is racist, as are his supporters.

  28. jason says:

    Amoral Scumbag is an amoral scumbag who has the moral compass of a floating turd.

    The fact he thinks is somehow morally superior to Trump is one of the biggest jokes ever advance on this blog.

    This is someone who uses the same M.O. election after election and nothing ever changes except the candidates.

    Amoral Scumbag used all the MSM lies about Romney here just as he uses all the same lies against Trump.

    And the ridiculous and idiotic scenarios “brokered convention”, “revolution at the convention”, “Trump not run” etc. are always interchangeable.

    Amoral Scumbag is an amoral, petty, despicable excuse for a human being.

    Not being a conservative is the least of his faults.

  29. jason says:

    Robbie is not a troll. He is a Republican who hates Trump. They do exist.”

    BS.

    It was never about Trump, just like it was never about Romney.

  30. NYCmike says:

    “BS.”

    -A-Hole on A-Hole violence…….that’s gonna back everything up…….especially on a Friday in the summer!

  31. NYCmike says:

    Looking into real estate in Greenland……..just in case…….

  32. jason says:

    Someone who constantly parrots far left talking points is not a conservative Republican. I know many NeverTrumpers; I was one and did not vote for Trump. Can tell the difference. Definitely a troll.”

    I think he is an amoral scumbag who constantly parrots far left talking points. Does not make him a troll although for years I did call him Wobblie Troll.

    Big Joe is Dem who has posted here for years. I don’t call him a troll.

    On the other hand, a brainwashed diehard Marxist Leninist Maoist Stalinist or whatever he thinks he is like Proud Obamacon, yeah, I would call him a troll.

  33. Wes says:

    So by your own admission, Mikey, you got one out of three right while I got two out of three right, yet you’re calling me out being wrong.

    You clearly drank paint by the gallon as a kid.

  34. jason says:

    A-Hole on A-Hole violence”

    There is no A-violence between me and Bitter. Bitter is always right except in the rare instances where he disagrees with me, and what are small differences between A-holes?

    GFY.

  35. jason says:

    -Then why are we reading about it in the Wall St Journal?”

    They thought the odds of you ever reading anything were too infinitesimal to worry about.

  36. Wes says:

    For those keeping score, a guy with a 33% accuracy rating in presidential predictions started an argument with a guy who has a 67% accuracy rating in presidential predictions.

    One of these guys should not have been attacking the other.

  37. Wes says:

    It’d be like the ‘08 Lions—who went 0-16–attacking the ‘08 Patriots—who went 11-5.

    Mikey should really take his own holy book’s advice and remove the beam from his own eye before trying to remove the speck from mine.

  38. jason says:

    Everyone here knows that if Mike Pence was President, Amoral Scumbag would be here on a daily basis with all the MSM talking points against him. Nothing would be too low. Every lie. Every conspiracy theory. Anything the MSM could come up against him at MSNBC, CNN, Huff Post, Daily Kos and his other sources could come up with.

    Instead of racism it would probably be about how Pence is a right wing religious fanatic who is going to start new Crusades.

  39. jason says:

    wes, you have to admit 33% is pretty good for NYC.

    Everything is relative.

  40. Wes says:

    For Mikey to attack me for my wrong prediction in 2016 was like having the 10-15 Tank Abbott criticize the 28-17 Ken Shamrock for not being a better fighter.

  41. Wes says:

    I think I’ve figured out why Mikey always backs guaranteed losers in primaries:

    They make him feel right at home.

  42. NYCmike says:

    Let’s see:

    I made one post about 2016, which was factually correct.

    I also replied to a post from Wes, in which I agreed with him that I probably got 2008 and 2012 incorrect.

    Wes keeps making comments…….someone REALLY hates to be wrong, and can’t handle it very well.

    RED FLAG that guy!

  43. NYCmike says:

    “Everything is relative.”

    -jason is saying now what I said in 2016…….it took a little while, but “Everything is relative.”

  44. NYCmike says:

    Wes,

    Tell us again how smart you are, and how many certificates you have.

    Oh, and then remind me how many votes you get as opposed to how many I get.

  45. Wes says:

    So, Mikey, you missed twice as many calls as I but decided to start a fight with me. Maybe you should get your accuracy rating at least on par with mine before calling me out, don’t you think?

  46. Wes says:

    Since you’re interested in my academic background, Mikey, I have the following:

    BS/BA in political science
    License in massage therapy
    License in real estate
    Welding certificate

    There. I hope you’re satisfied with knowledge of my educational and vocational background.

    Now since you’re unaware stupidity doesn’t increase your number of votes, you get the same number of votes as I—one.

  47. janz says:

    Welding certificate….isn’t that a difficult certificate to get?

    Wes, I would say, generally, you have a well rounded education, covering liberal arts, business and manual skill sets

  48. NYCmike says:

    “as opposed to Wes, who thought Hillary would win.”

    -I stated a fact.

    Wes calls that starting a fight.

    Red flag.

  49. jason says:

    I think I’ve figured out why Mikey always backs guaranteed losers in primaries:

    They make him feel right at home.”

    Also why he is so proud of getting 33%, much higher than he usually gets with the Mikey Maneuvers.

  50. NYCmike says:

    Agreed janz….Wes is very well rounded, and is probably very smart…….but a tad sensitive.

  51. NYCmike says:

    “Also why he is so proud”

    -Proud = accepting facts about the last 3 elections, and hoping to do better in the future?

    Is that, seriously, your definition?

    Odd.

  52. jason says:

    Wow, Ronna McDaniel cut Amash a new a-hole…

    Amash, Israel hating fake conservative Paulbot:

    “Israel should stand up to President Trump and allow our colleagues to visit. Nobody has to agree with their opinions, but it will inevitably harm U.S.-Israel relations if members of Congress are banned from the country. We must find ways to come together; there’s enough division.”

    Ronna, GOP chairwoman:

    Come together?

    398 Rs+Ds came together to condemn a boycott of Israel, you voted present.

    424 Rs+Ds came together to condemn anti-Semitism, you voted present.

    395 Rs+Ds came together for Iron Dome funding, you voted no.

    Spare us the lecture on unity”

    OUCH!

  53. NYCmike says:

    https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/08/16/how-is-this-not-a-story-conservative-journo-jeryl-bier-digs-up-more-disturbing-dirt-on-org-behind-rashida-tlaib-and-ilhan-omars-israel-trip/

    -ODD that the media has not mentioned this in all of their reporting.

    I would also think that once Robbie and “CG” read this, they will thank President Trump for speaking out against these 2 radicals.

  54. NYCmike says:

    Ronna McDaniel has done some good work.

  55. jason says:

    -jason is saying now what I said in 2016…….it took a little while, but “Everything is relative.”

    It is always scary when NYC says I agreed on something with him, or even worse, said something he supposedly said. You really have to have the courage of your convictions to survive something like that.

    Fortunately “everything is relative” is more attributable to Albert Einstein than NYC.

  56. jason says:

    “I would also think that once Robbie and “CG” read this, they will thank President Trump for speaking out against these 2 radicals.”

    Zzzzzz… Amoral Scumbag would sell his sister and mother into sexual bondage if it was damaging to Trump.

    Corey would never thank Trump for anything, even if he cured cancer and achieved lasting peace in the ME.

  57. NYCmike says:

    #60 – 3:48PM

    #57 – 3:42PM

    STILL playing catch-up!

  58. jason says:

    NYC discovered # 57 comes before # 60.

    Baby steps, baby steps.

  59. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    58. “Ronna McDaniel has done some good work.”

    Ronna Romney McDaniel; she is Mitt Romney’s niece. Trump credits her for playing a major role in why he carried Michigan.

  60. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    “President Trump Eyes a New Real-Estate Purchase: Greenland: In conversations with aides, the president has—with varying degrees of seriousness—floated the idea of the U.S. buying the autonomous Danish territory.”

    This idea, by the way, is totally nuts.

    I repeat the following quote, which applies to the 2020 election:

    “We stand today at a crossroads: One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other leads to total extinction. Let us hope we have the wisdom to make the right choice.” —Woody Allen

  61. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    A partial victory for Trump’s immigration policy in the Ninth Circuit. The decision removed the National TRO and applied it to only those States in the Ninth–CA and AZ. TX and NM can proceed.

    https://www.cbs17.com/news/court-limits-order-that-had-stopped-trump-asylum-limits/

  62. NYCmike says:

    Rosario

  63. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    It is interesting the whole Greenland story came out shortly after Denmark denied passage of the Russian Nord 2 pipeline through its territorial waters. The Germans are claiming it was because of U.S. pressure. It appears to have blocked Merkel’s plan for Germany to become dependent on Russian natural gas. (Maybe Obama had a legitimate reason for tapping her cell phone.) Not building the Nord 2 pipeline will greatly increase U.S. LNG sales to Europe.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-forum-nordstream2-schroeder/schroeder-says-u-s-pressure-on-denmark-the-main-reason-for-nord-stream-2-delay-idUSKCN1T80H4

  64. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    70. “Denmark is putting Europe’s energy security at risk,” Schroeder said — quoting from the linked article.

    Actually this is about Germany needing another source of energy, because their wind and solar fantasy did not work out. So they make a deal with Russia, and at the same time criticize the U.S. for asking them to spend more on their own defense. Trump is right, it is about time the U.S. begin reducing the number of our troops in Germany.

  65. NYCmike says:

    “The Germans are claiming it was because of U.S. pressure.”

    -More obstruction to “free trade”!

  66. lisab says:

    It is interesting the whole Greenland story came out shortly after Denmark denied passage of the Russian Nord 2 pipeline through its territorial waters.
    —————————

    the plan is to buy greenland

    which after global warming will be agricultural gold

  67. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    73. Silly me. I thought it was Trump possibly trying to corner the Walrus blubber market. Maybe he wants to build the Trump Ice Tower.

  68. Tina says:

    Looks like 20000 were at the trump rally in my last night.

    Broke a record at the arena. The figure includes those that were outside .

  69. Tina says:

    This is awesome:

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    1h
    Rep. Tlaib wrote a letter to Israeli officials desperately wanting to visit her grandmother. Permission was quickly granted, whereupon Tlaib obnoxiously turned the approval down, a complete setup. The only real winner here is Tlaib’s grandmother. She doesn’t have to see her now!

  70. lisab says:

    if we all switched to coal power, the number of energy workers would drop from 5 million+ to 100,000+

    which would drop carbon emissions enormously

    which would keep greenland frozen

    and we could corner the blubber market

    of course … all the plants and trees might die from lack of co2 in the atmosphere

  71. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    78. If the world switched to total coal power there might be so much soot in the atmosphere that it might block the sunlight enough to negatively affect crop production. Take a look at pictures of London in the 19th century or Beijing today.

    Coal is doomed because natural gas is a lot cheaper, both to produce and transport.

  72. Phil says:

    Didn’t I read somewhere that natural gas was going to be prohibited for use in new construction homes and businesses in Berkely or am I thinking of something else?

  73. lisab says:

    natural gas is in no way cheaper than coal

  74. lisab says:

    Price $/Million Btu
    Coal $2.00
    Oil $9.75
    Natural Gas $4.50

  75. lisab says:

    of course if you include the infrastructure required to use natural gas, it is more like $10 per million btu

    and then your house sometimes explodes

  76. lisab says:

    angry boyfriend opens fire on men who catcalled his girlfriend at a Texas gas station, leaving two injured

  77. Bitterlaw says:

    Leftist talking points alone do not make somebody a troll. Wes lifts his anti-GWB rants straight for DailyKOS and CodePink. NYC loves Trump’s tariffs as much as Richard Trumka and the AFL-CIO do. Cash Cow is a vegan opposedto eating meat.

  78. jason says:

    Ronna Romney McDaniel; she is Mitt Romney’s niece. Trump credits her for playing a major role in why he carried Michigan.”

    I guess she didn’t become an MSM toadie like her uncle.

  79. jason says:

    Yep, Bitter is right.

    Tim, who equated Ted Kennedy driving drunk and killing a woman with Republicans ticketed for jay walking, is not a troll.

    ssq, who said her friends and family deserved a real Christian to vote for instead of Romney, is not a troll.

    Even Kommie Kory was not a troll.

    Amoral Scumbag is not a troll. Just an amoral scumbag.

  80. Bitterlaw says:

    Cory was a Canadian leftist. Possibly a troll.

  81. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    82. Lisab, the facts are not your friend. Natural gas is rapidly replacing coal for energy production because it is cheaper and cleaner:

    “Coal is more expensive than other major electricity generation systems. U.S. utilities no longer build coal-fired power plants because newer, more efficient natural gas and renewable power plants produce cheaper electricity.
    that’s partly because of clean air requirements, partly because the coal infrastructure is getting older but mostly because “the price of producing power at natural gas plants and with wind and solar has declined so dramatically,” said David Schlissel, director of resource planning analysis at the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis, an energy research firm based in Cleveland.
    Coal’s share of the U.S. electricity mix fell from 48% in 2008 to 27% in 2018 and is projected to be 22% in 2020, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the statistical agency of the U.S. Department of Energy.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/04/climate-change-coal-now-more-expensive-than-wind-solar-energy/1277637001/

    “In 2008, coal powered more than twice as much American electricity as natural gas – 48% to 21%. By 2016, however, natural gas overtook coal as America’s most prevalent power source. As natural gas power overtook coal power, American electricity became less expensive. American electricity prices are now lower in inflation-adjusted dollars than they were in 2008. Replacing coal with natural gas reduced American energy costs and provided American consumers more money to spend on goods and services such as nutrition, housing, education, health care, and consumer goods.
    An excellent study by the Institute for Energy Research, published in 2016, documented that natural gas power is now 16% less expensive than coal power. The closing of coal power plants during the past decade – often justified on environmental grounds and viewed with concern by conservatives and affordable energy advocates – brought economic benefits because the coal power plants were replaced by natural gas power.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2018/02/26/closing-coal-power-plants-replacing-with-natural-gas-makes-economic-sense/#34caeded2389

  82. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    85. “Leftist talking points alone do not make somebody a troll. Wes lifts his anti-GWB rants straight for DailyKOS and CodePink. NYC loves Trump’s tariffs as much as Richard Trumka and the AFL-CIO do. Cash Cow is a vegan opposedto eating meat.”

    Yep, but Robbie is a troll.

  83. lisab says:

    sdc,

    the spot price of powder river basin coal was 12.05 per short ton, that is 17.5 million btus

    that is with the federal and state taxes unfairly heaped on coal

    at that price you can open all your windows in winter, turn on your furnace full blast, turn on your air conditioners in every room

    and the cost per million btus is less than $1.50

    you cannot even say the word natural gas in summer time for less than about $2.50

    and that does not account for the infrastructure costs which are substantial

    or the fire hazrards which are substantial

    all you need for coal is a bucket, a shovel, and some nice strong men to dig it up

  84. lisab says:

    don’t get me wrong, i have nothing against natural gas per se

    except the added expense and danger of fire

    but it is ok

    unfortunately minnesota is investing a lot in wind turbines that don’t turn, nuclear power and natural gas …

    so my electricity bill has gone up to almost $45 a month!

  85. lisab says:

    of course if hubby didn’t keep the air conditioner at 68 degrees we might pay less

  86. lisab says:

    elizabeth warren has 5 cent lead over biden on predictit, 31 cents warren, 26 cents biden, harris 15 cents, sanders 13 cents

    which if it is correct will make trump’s support among never trumpers go up

    many of them would support biden, but they will not support warren …

    but you still will have the megyn kellys and dana perinos voting for warren

  87. jason says:

    Depends on the Never Trumper. Quite a few of us here who didn’t vote for Trump for various reasons will vote for him this time around, whether it’s Biden or Warren or any other socialist.

    But does anyone doubt Bill Kristol and Amoral Scumbag will vote for Warren? Or Jennifer Rubin? Or David Brooks?

    I am sure Corey would not vote for Trump over Warren.

    Megyn Kelly was never a Republican, same as Shepard Smith. You can bet they will vote for Warren.

    Frankly, it doesn’t matter. The election won’t be decided by the Never Trump vote, just like it wasn’t in 2016.

  88. Phil says:

    Does anyone doubt Bill Crystal or Amoral Scumbag will vote for Warren?

    Is that a trick question?

  89. lisab says:

    phil,

    those two will as will kasich and the bushes and corey etc.

    but there are MANY gope who want to go back to the status quo of open borders, welfare for illegals (which subsidizes their labor costs), and general pay as you go democracy because they do well under such a system

    they figure a biden like hillary will play ball

    a warren might actually put a wealth tax on them

    the rich will agree to income taxes of 90% because they don’t get a paycheck or like buffet they get a token paycheck

    but warren is threatening a tax on wealth. they cannot allow that

  90. lisab says:

    bezos would have to pay over $4 billion a year as per warren’s plan … he would have to pay in cash … now add in gates, buffet, elliso, zuckerberg, the waltons, the kochs etc.

    i’ll take things which will not be allowed to happen for $1000

  91. lisab says:

    if biden raises income taxes back to 40%

    all of the above families’ taxes goes up zero dollars, or close enough as to make no difference

    buffet still makes $100,000 a year salary

  92. Bitterlaw says:

    I do not think Kristol will vote for any of the 2020 Dems. He is a conservative who hates Trump. They exist.

  93. Bitterlaw says:

    Trump is not a conservative. He is the only way to stop the Dems in 2020. Both can be true.

  94. Phil says:

    Krystol, Navaro, Scarborough, Boot, Nicole Wallace, Flake, Kasich, MD, Robbie, the whole lot of them will vote for Warren or any other socialist the Democrats throw out there.

    Most just hate Trump. Some just want the Washington elites and lefty media to love them (Flake, Kasich) pu**y whipped (Scarborough) or have had a mental breakdown (MD)

    Quite a crew – all useful idiots to the left.

  95. jason says:

    I do not think Kristol will vote for any of the 2020 Dems. He is a conservative who hates Trump. They exist.”

    You haven’t kept up.

    Kristol used to be a conservative, of sorts. No longer. You haven’t seen him recently on CNN. He is gone full moonbat.

  96. jason says:

    I agree Trump is not a conservative.

    But neither is Kristol.

  97. jason says:

    He is gone?

    My excuse is that Quechua is my native language.

  98. Bitterlaw says:

    So the litmus test to be a conservative is to pledge complete and unquestioning loyalty to Trump even though Trump is not a conservative. I love this place.

  99. Phil says:

    What? Who said anything about complete and unquestioning loyalty to Trump? It’s a binary choice. You have Trump or you have some socialist like Warren. Choose one. The bunch I listed above would prefer the socialist. Like I said, useful idiots all of them.

  100. lisab says:

    phil,

    many never trumpers would be very happy with a biden … because they think he will be about like obama who generally they were ok with, not that they wanted obama, but they see obama and hillary as establishment

    but they still fear a warren, or sanders or beto

  101. Phil says:

    Yeah, there is a bit of fear among some in that group of a Warren or Sanders. I’ll grant you that. They’d definitely feel safer with Biden. After all, he’s one of them (establishment types) Still, the hatred for Trump among that group for shaking up their establishment probably trumps any of that fear of a Warren for all of them. I mean, its easy to visualize Robbie voting for Bernie just to stick it to Trump…..especially since he’s a fake Republican anyway.

  102. lisab says:

    phil,

    robbie is a troll. he will vote dem every time

    i was speaking about the never trumpers, not hardcore dems

  103. Bitterlaw says:

    Trump will win or lose in 2020. There is no ideology attached to Trump so he will be irrelevant in 2024and beyond.

    It is amazing that the only way to be in the evil Establishment is to win elections but so many voters claim to hate the evil Establishment.

  104. Wes says:

    Look at Mikey, Bitter. He claims to want conservative Republicans to win while invariably supporting lunatic fringe candidates—such as Christine O’Donnell, Eric Hovde, Dick the Misogynist Bastard Mourdock, Matt Bevin, and Pat Morissey, who either lose qu ixotic bids for winnable Senate seats or run scorched-earth primary campaigns that at least try to undermine the efforts of actually electable Republicans.

    He claims to be a conservative but works to help Democrats win Senate seats by supporting these rejects from the Star Wars cantina scene.

    He either hasn’t grasped the fact that Republicans have to nominate the best available candidates to win and implement their agenda or actively wants Schumer to become Senate Majority Leader. I say the latter though others may disagree.

  105. Bitterlaw says:

    Wes – The civil war in the GOP has to end after 2020. Win or lose, Trump becomes irrelevant on January 20, 2021. He will either be starting his last term or sending hate-filled tweets about his successor. You can hate Trump and still never vote for a Democrat.

  106. Cash Cow TM says:

    Starting for home this morning from WISC.
    *We will stop to spend night with friends N or Chicago tonight…)

    Anybody need me to bring something home for them?

    A foam cheesehead?
    A barrel of cheese curds?
    #####################################

    WHOA!…IT IS NOW RAINING CATS AND DOGS HERE IN N. WISCO.

  107. Bitterlaw says:

    Safe travels, Cash Cow.

  108. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #114- Wes
    This should cheer you up; a Steve King Townhall in Iowa CD-4.

    https://twitter.com/corinne_perkins

    By the way, your third paragragh in #114 is spot-on and paraphrases the “Wm. Buckley Rule”.

    Your second paragragh is unfair. NYC is a conservative, but like most of us,at times, he shows error in judgement.

  109. Tina says:

    I thought Obama told Gaffe not to embarrass himself. His campaign staffers need to really pull a lot of his events. Prolly focus more on Mid morning events for him. But clearly something is amiss with him.

    Joe Biden confuses Burlington, Iowa, with Burlington, Vt., in latest gaffe https://fxn.ws/2Z7fDIB #FoxNews

  110. jason says:

    Your second paragragh is unfair. NYC is a conservative, but like most of us,at times, he shows error in judgement.”

    It’s not unfair at all.

    Mikey Maneuvers or deadender logic if you prefer has cost conservatives a huge amount of political power. Huge.

    Error in judgement my ass.

    The “send a message” mentality is not an error in judgement. It is the the belief that if you can’t have everything, it is ok to have nothing.

    wes’ post is spot on.

  111. jason says:

    So the litmus test to be a conservative is to pledge complete and unquestioning loyalty to Trump even though Trump is not a conservative.”

    Zzzzz… what a load of bull.

    Anyone who reads my posts knows I don’t have any “complete and unquestioning loyalty to Trump”. Far from it, I am critical of many of his policies and I never called him a conservative.

    But any “conservative” who supports a socialist rather than Trump is not a conservative.

    Trump doesn’t have to be a conservative to be a better option for conservatives than the moonbats running on the Dem side.

  112. jason says:

    Wes – The civil war in the GOP has to end after 2020.”

    It won’t.

    I have made this point many times here.

    Trump is not the cause of the civil war in the GOP, he is a symptom of it.

    And Trump is not why I left the GOP, contrary to Amoral Scumbag’s lies. I left the GOP because it no longer represents the values that attracted me to the party.

    Take free trade. The GOP was always the party that stood for free trade, the Democrats were the ones pushing the AFL-CIO agenda. Look at this board now, there are maybe 3 or 4 of us that believe in free trade. Bitter, wes, phil and me.

    This is not because of Trump. He merely reflects a trend in the GOP away from the principles of free trade, free markets, and limited government.

    The civil war in the GOP is here to stay, with or without Trump.

  113. Bitterlaw says:

    Jason – 121 was a thoughtful post but you should still GFY.

    Trump has gone to his Democrat roots and pushed an anti-conservative trade policy. NYC has to support it because he is one of the supporters who would line up on 5th Avenue to be shot by Trump. Unfortunately, the only choice is between flawed Trump and a no-redeeming qualities Democrat. I agree that no conservative should vote for a Democrat in 2020. I reserve judgment for now on those who sit out.

  114. jason says:

    I can’t really disagree with Bitter’s post so I guess I have to GFM.

  115. Bitterlaw says:

    Cream soda, A-hole.

  116. Tina says:

    Mifsud, through his attorney, confirms that he was a deep state asset (cia).

    This confirms that the commie was in charge of spy gate.

    He is in deep sheot since the cia cannot spy on Americans.

    If you notice, the commie keeps tweeting at trump, who never engages back.

  117. lisab says:

    mccain wanted hillary to win

    of course he passed the dossier to reporters

  118. jason says:

    Nothing in that article contradicts McCain’s statement that he gave the dossier to Comey, nobody else.

    David Kramer “long time associate of McCain” gave the dossier to people in the media? Zzzzz….

    In reading the article, it appears that both McCain and Kramer fell for the fake dossier because it was presented to them in a manner designed to do so, with “credible” sources. They got suckered.

    However, in McCain’s position at that time, I would have done the same. Kramer, on the other hand, is a slimeball. The fact he only gave the dossier to left wing media says a lot about him.

  119. lisab says:

    although the part about mccain passing the dossier to comey is appropriate

    if you are any federal employee, and someone gives you info that someone is working for the russians, you should tell the fbi

    not the other 14 journalists, but the fbi is ok

  120. jason says:

    of course he passed the dossier to reporters”

    If he did, you certainly don’t get that from the article.

    I think McCain did the right thing with the information he had at hand, which was to refer it to the FBI.

  121. jason says:

    Of course, we know now that giving it to the FBI or to 14 left wing journolists was the same thing.

  122. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Turns out, Swedish eco-activist Greta Thunberg publicity stunt to sail across the Atlantic to reduce her carbon emissions instead of flying, may have resulted in more carbon emissions than if she had flown:

    “Climate activist Greta Thunberg causes more greenhouse gas emissions from her sailing trip from the United Kingdom to the United States than if she had flown. About five employees would sail the yacht back to Europe, said Andreas Kling, spokesman for Thunberg skipper Boris Herrmann, on Thursday the taz.
    “Of course, they fly over there, that’s no different,” says Kling. Herrmann will also take the plane for the return journey. The sailing trip triggers at least six climate-damaging air travel across the Atlantic. If Thunberg had flown with her father, only two would have been necessary to come to New York.”

  123. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Meanwhile barefoot Prince Harry, who spoke of his love for the planet at a Google sponsored event, at which attendees arrived on about 115 private jets and several luxury yachts, just flew to France on a private plan for a vacation.

    “ECO-WARRIOR royals Harry and Meghan left a huge carbon footprint when they took a private jet to the South of France two days after their flight to Ibiza. The trip to Nice created seven times more carbon emissions per person than a commercial flight.”

    And were supposed to take these people seriously?

  124. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Given Trump’s business background, you would have thought he would know this:

    @DevlinBarrett
    You can’t just go buy Greenland. You’ve got to work your way up, start with Nova Scotia, then Newfoundland…

  125. Tina says:

    I think McCain did his “duty.” He lied about when heknew about it and said that he only “gave coemdy the dossier.”

    Of bigger i let’s ce I s that he, through Kramer, leaked it to the press.

    Imagine, Foreign intelligence leaked.

  126. jason says:

    What could go wrong?

    Anthony Scaramucci has been talking to Bill Kristol about trying to force Trump off the GOP ticket in 2020. He has said he’s been given support from others since the start of his feud with the president, but declined to name those people.”

    I hear one of these people has the initials A.S.

  127. jason says:

    that he, through Kramer, leaked it to the press.”

    LOL

    We have a new standard of leaking here, let’s move the goalposts.

    Although Kramer himself admits he was the one who leaked the dossier, it was McCain, “through him”.

    Okayyy….

  128. Tina says:

    Yikes, remember when no dossier was shared by the Arizona Senator prior to the election. This has completely blown up.

    Ohr told the FBI that “Steele also told OHR that he spoke with a staff member of Senator John McCain’s office sometime prior to October 2016.”

  129. Tina says:

    This turned out to be a LIE.

    “McCain famously denied ever providing a copy of the dossier to BuzzFeed, telling the Daily Caller on Oct. 18, 2017: “I gave it to no one except for the director of the FBI. I don’t know why you’re digging this up now.”

  130. Tina says:

    Ny slimes caught red handed

    Ted Cruz
    @tedcruz
    ·
    5h
    If you care about journalism, or the First Amendt, READ the transcript. The Editor says (in effect) “for 2 yrs, we covered ‘Russia, Russia, Russia,’ facts be damned; now we’ll scream ‘racism, racism, racism’ for 18 mos, and the rest of the media follow us.” That’s not journalism.

  131. jason says:

    This turned out to be a LIE.

    “McCain famously denied ever providing a copy of the dossier to BuzzFeed, telling the Daily Caller on Oct. 18, 2017: “I gave it to no one except for the director of the FBI.”

    Yep, that is what he said.

    Kramer says he is the one that gave it to the media.

    I take both of them at their word, since there is no evidence except character assassination to dispute it.

  132. Tina says:

    Character assassination.

    Lol

  133. Bitterlaw says:

    Did John McCain steal Tina’s lunch money? Why is she posting this today?

  134. Tina says:

    Yes more of the Hamas Caucus please.

    “Michael Moore: The Squad Is How Dems Are Going to Win in 2020”

  135. jason says:

    I love the opportunity when the McCain haters continue to attack him here even after he died. The fact they continue to hate him because he did not conform 100% to their litmus tests is testament to how petty and small minded people can be.

    I love the opportunity because I can remind every one of American war hero and patriot John McCain, who made great personal sacrifices for his country, and served his country and his party and the cause of conservatives through decades of public service, being elected 7 times to the House and Senate by his constituents.

    Those that attack his service and his honor haven’t done 1/1000th for their country as John McCain did.

  136. jason says:

    Did John McCain steal Tina’s lunch money?”

    Nah, he just didn’t vote the way she wanted a few times.

    Tina is going to turn off the lights after the last 100% litmus tested true conservative becomes a RINO.

  137. jason says:

    Ohr told the FBI that “Steele also told OHR that he spoke with a staff member of Senator John McCain’s office sometime prior to October 2016.”

    Fabulous combination of hearsay, innuendo, and guilt by association trying to make a crock of absolute crap into an “OMG wow” moment.

    “Ohr told the FBI that Steele also told OHR that he spoke to a staff member of Senator John Mccain.”

    Wow, that’s the momentous smoking gun? That proves something against McCain? The fact a proven liar like Steele “said he spoke to a staff member”?

  138. Tina says:

    Yup, when all else fails, a critic of McCain is “attacking his service record.”

    Oh and Mr. bitterlaw, it is in the press again due to the deposition of McCain’s aide.

    Personally, as I mentioned in the past, McCain gave comedy a dossier, coemdy already had said dossier.

    What is new is McCain said one thing and now it turns out that his involvement commenced earlier. It is pretty evident that his aid leaked things to the press too,

    Those are facts, bringing up his service record has no bearing in this matter.

  139. Tina says:

    Granite was pathetic here. He should call the commie but he ain’t that curious.

    TheLastRefuge
    @TheLastRefuge2
    ·
    34m
    Lindsey: well, ya know, I’m really curious how this whole thing got started….”

    Maria: will you call John Brennan to testify?

    Lindsey: whoa, whoa, whoa Maria, I’m not THAT curious!

  140. jason says:

    Those are facts,…”

    There are no facts here. And nothing new either.

    “Involvement”? Wow, sounds sinister, huh?

    What a load of crap.

    I am sure you don’t believe anything Steele says about Trump, but you are fine with any character assassination of McCain.

    The hypocrisy is astounding.

  141. jason says:

    What is new is McCain said one thing and now it turns out that his involvement commenced earlier.”

    BS.

    Nothing in that article or anywhere else proves McCain did anything but what he said he did, give the dossier to Comey. Which btw the way was the right thing to do.

    The rest is just rehashed McCain Derangement Syndrome.

    But like I said, I love the opportunity to show the McCain haters for what they are, shallow, vindictive, petty people who are not fit to lick his boots.

  142. jason says:

    bringing up his service record has no bearing in this matter.”

    LOL

    It never does, does it?

    Well, tough sh-t.

    You don’t get to define John McCain on your narrow minded litmus test of the 2 or 3 votes that you don’t agree with.

    His legacy IS defined by his service to his country, both in war and in peace. It IS defined by his sacrifice as a POW who was tortured and maimed. It IS defined by his decades of public service and his contributions to the GOP and conservative causes. It IS defined by the confidence his constituents placed in him time after time. It IS defined by the hundreds votes he cast in favor of keeping America strong.

    I will bring up his service record every time, because trying to define him because of a vote on Obamacare, or because he forwarded some dossier to the FBI, is wrong.

  143. Tina says:

    Notice other “Rs” that got the dossier:

    David Kramer, a longtime associate of the late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), revealed in an unsealed deposition that he had contact with at least 14 members of the media regarding the Steele dossier—a collection of 17 memos containing unverified allegations against Donald Trump.

    Additionally, Kramer gave a full copy of the unverified dossier to then-Senior Director for Russian Affairs at the National Security Council Celeste Wallander, Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), and then-House Speaker Paul Ryan’s chief of staff, Jonathan Burks. Kramer also provided a briefing in early December 2016 on the dossier to both Wallander and Victoria Nuland, then the assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasian Affairs.

  144. Tina says:

    Wow, getting really warm here:

    Kramer testified that he, McCain, and McCain’s chief of staff, Christopher Brose, met to review the dossier on Nov. 30, 2016. Kramer suggested that McCain “provide a copy of [the dossier] to the director of the FBI and the director of the CIA.” McCain later passed a copy of the dossier to James Comey on Dec. 9, 2016. It isn’t known whether McCain also provided a copy to then-CIA Director John Brennan. Notably, Brennan did attach a two-page summary of the dossier to the intelligence community assessment that he delivered to outgoing President Barack Obama on Jan. 5, 2017.

  145. Tina says:

    Yikes:

    The implications of this statement are significant. Kramer, a private citizen, was providing updates to a former British spy as to what a sitting senator was saying to the director of the FBI.

  146. Wes says:

    Whatever his shortcomings, McCain actively campaigned to help Republicans win elections. Can Tina say the same thing?

  147. Tina says:

    Virtuel signaling.

  148. Tina says:

    McCain famously denied ever providing a copy of the dossier to BuzzFeed, telling the Daily Caller on Oct. 18, 2017: “I gave it to no one except for the director of the FBI. I don’t know why you’re digging this up now.”

    Kramer, who is an affiliated senior fellow at the McCain Institute, revealed in his deposition that he had been in contact with 14 journalists and producers about the dossier. These contacts included:

    ABC News: Brian Ross, Matt Mosk
    BuzzFeed: Ken Bensinger
    CNN: Carl Bernstein
    The Guardian: Julian Borger
    McClatchy: Peter Stone, Greg Gordon
    Mother Jones: David Corn
    NPR: Bob Little, Rachel Martin
    The Washington Post: Tom Hamburger, Rosalind Helderman, Fred Hiatt
    The Wall Street Journal: Alan Cullison

    Epoch Times

  149. Cash Cow TM says:

    Drudge has headline rhat a homeless WV guy was arrested for subway fake bombs (I assume it was the placing of the rice cookers).
    I am on phone and cannot pull up the article to get his name.

    Who is it?
    Walt or I might know him… WV being a small state and all.

  150. Bitterlaw says:

    So a guy taking heat in a deposition blames a dead guy. Shocking. Tina voided her RINO hunting license when she quit the party.

    After what draft-dodging Trump said about McCain’s war record, I will never take Tina’s side in this fight.

  151. Bitterlaw says:

    Having conducted hundreds of depositions, I can tell you that they are not perfect records of absolute truth.

  152. Tina says:

    More virtue signaling:

    Bitterlaw says:
    August 19, 2019 at 12:01 am
    So a guy taking heat in a deposition blames a dead guy. Shocking. Tina voided her RINO hunting license when she quit the party.

    After what draft-dodging Trump said about McCain’s war record, I will never take Tina’s side in this fight.

  153. Bitterlaw says:

    Virtue signaling = Tina has no substantive response

  154. Bitterlaw says:

    Trump was as much of a draft-dodger as Bill Clinton.

    Tina to pretend Trump was not a draft-dodger in 3…2…1…

  155. Tina says:

    Very substantiation responses:

    Blame the dead guy

    Attack his war record

  156. lisab says:

    well if mccain’s aide went rogue and dropped the dossier off to the press without john mccain’s approval

    then he will presumably be fired from his position at the mccain institute

  157. lisab says:

    in other news i bought the tac visor — developed by nasa and used by fighter pilots everywhere.

    it is ok

  158. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    No one can imagine what McCain went through as a POW in Vietnam. He was offered early release, but refused because he knew it was a Vietnamese propaganda trick.

    Trump’s attack on him for being shot down was unforgivable. Making it worse, Trump was serial draft dodger, who avoiding military service through a series of deferments. One reason I did not vote for Trump in 2016 was Trump’s comment.

    On a personal basis, I greatly respect McCain as a war hero. I do not personally respect Trump. I may end up voting for Trump in 2020, but I will be holding my nose.

  159. jason says:

    Tina has a lot of quotes.

    However, none of them actually support any of her conclusions.

    That is because they are just based on McCain Derangement Syndrome.

    “Kramer suggested that McCain “provide a copy of [the dossier] to the director of the FBI and the director of the CIA.” McCain later passed a copy of the dossier to James Comey on Dec. 9, 2016. It isn’t known whether McCain also provided a copy to then-CIA Director John Brennan.”

    So what does this actually say, contrary to Tina’s
    distortions?

    That McCain, exactly as he said, gave a copy of the dossier to Comey.

    The rest is BS, hearsay, innuendo, speculation and attempts at character assassination.

  160. jason says:

    David Kramer, a longtime associate of the late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), revealed in an unsealed deposition that he had contact with at least 14 members of the media regarding the Steele dossier—a collection of 17 memos containing unverified allegations against Donald Trump”

    What does this say?

    That a “long time associate” of McCain had contacts with the media.

    Nowhere in deposition does it say McCain told him to release anything to the media. In fact quite the opposite, Kramer testifies that he recommended McCain turn it over to the FBI.

    It should also be noted he claims that he didn’t intend the dossier to be published, merely further investigated. And indeed it wasn’t, none of it was published, not until Comey evidently leaked it himself.

    “The media had widely dismissed the dossier as unsubstantiated and, therefore, unreportable. It was only after learning that Comey briefed Trump on it that CNN reported on the dossier.”

    So in fact it was not even published because of Kramer, much less McCain.

    Tina is trying to take a disparate mix of fact and fiction here to arrive at her own conclusion.

    Sorry, that dog won’t hunt.

  161. jason says:

    And finally, as Tina herself admits, Comey had the dossier before McCain gave it to him.

    So McCain had nothing to do with the “origins” of the dossier. Nada, zilch, nothing. He had nothing to do with the fact that it was published. Nothing, nada, zilch.

    Nothing in the article Tina posted as somehow “new” proves that McCain did anything besides what he said he did. Nada, nothing, zilch.

    So in the end, even if we assume what Kramer says is true, which we don’t, there is still nothing here remotely damming regarding McCain. Nada, nothing, zilch.

  162. Wes says:

    Jason, NeverTrumpers will never fail to extol the evils of Trump, whether real or imagined.

    AlwaysTrumpers will never fail to extol the evils of people Trump doesn’t like, whether real or imagined.

  163. Tina says:

    Jason, point to me where I attacked McCain’s war record.
    Why bring his war record up?

    I don’t believe that his involvement started with and ended with “dropping a copy to comedy” and “possibly dropping a copy to the CIA Director” (which was never mentioned previously).

    If you believe that, I can sell you a nice red bridge.

    I also believe what he peddled, comedy already had.

  164. jason says:

    well if mccain’s aide went rogue and dropped the dossier off to the press without john mccain’s approval

    then he will presumably be fired from his position at the mccain institute”

    Zzzzzzz….

    Nice straw arguments. “Rogue”…. “approval”…

    There is no evidence that Kramer went “rogue” or required “approval” for anything.

    “I shared with [Mr. McCain] the document, and he took some time to review it, he asked me what I thought he should do, and I suggested that he provide a copy of it to the Director of the FBI and the Director of the CIA,” Mr. Kramer testified.”

    There is, of course, no reason for Kramer to be “fired” for anything. Maybe his motivation was to to damage Trump. Maybe he was genuinely concerned about the contents of the dossier. Maybe he was an unwitting pawn and useful idiot. I personally tend towards a combination of wanting to damage Trump and useful idiot. But fired? No.

  165. Tina says:

    And all my quotes were actually from the marketnetwork.com that did the reporting. They are not mine. I have been following the coup well before anybody here has.

    I don’t even fault McCain. Fault lies with McCabe, comedy, the commie, the penguin, Pete the cheat, the mistress, senior fib leadership, and the obumbler (Biden).

  166. jason says:

    Jason, point to me where I attacked McCain’s war record.
    Why bring his war record up?”

    Because, as I said before, you don’t get to define John McCain because of your narrow minded petty little litmus tests.

    “possibly dropping a copy to the CIA Director” (which was never mentioned previously

    Horrors? Possibly?

    ” It isn’t known whether McCain also provided a copy to then-CIA Director John Brennan.”

    So Tina doesn’t know if McCain gave Brennan a copy or not.

    But even if he did, so what?

    “I also believe what he peddled, comedy already had.”

    Peddled? LOL. He didn’t peddle anything, he passed on the dossier, the right thing to do.

    And if you admit Comey already had the dossier, why are we talking about McCain.

    Don’t answer. Character assassination. Hearsay. Innuendo. Fake news. Garbage.

    Talk about peddling…

  167. Tina says:

    Yeah no answer.

    “Because, as I said before, you don’t get to define John McCain because of your narrow minded petty little litmus tests.”

  168. Tina says:

    Lol

    Character assassination

  169. jason says:

    And all my quotes were actually from the marketnetwork.com that did the reporting. They are not mine.”

    No, you are right.

    Only the fake conclusions are yours.

  170. jason says:

    I don’t even fault McCain. Fault lies with McCabe, comedy, the commie, the penguin, Pete the cheat, the mistress, senior fib leadership, and the obumbler (Biden).”

    Good. So you admit you are bringing McCain up for the strict purpose of lying about his involvement, character assassination, and bogus conclusions.

  171. jason says:

    Tina doesn’t “fault McCain”, but yet she feels compelled to post a bunch of fake conclusions about him that are completely unsupported by her own quotes.

    There is a name for that. MDS.

    Here is the deal. Trump made his bed with McCain with his asinine and despicable attack on McCain’s service record. McCain could have chosen to be magnanimous about it. He chose not to. The fact is that Trump deserved every bit of animus McCain directed at him.

    But McCain was not in any way remotely responsible for the Steele Dossier, how it was assembled how it was marketed, how it was published, or any of its consequences.

    To pretend otherwise just because he doesn’t pass your narrow minded litmus tests is just character assassination.

  172. jason says:

    No one can imagine what McCain went through as a POW in Vietnam. He was offered early release, but refused because he knew it was a Vietnamese propaganda trick.

    Trump’s attack on him for being shot down was unforgivable. Making it worse, Trump was serial draft dodger, who avoiding military service through a series of deferments. One reason I did not vote for Trump in 2016 was Trump’s comment.

    On a personal basis, I greatly respect McCain as a war hero….”

    Tina hates it when anybody brings up McCain’s war record.

    She want his legacy defined by the votes she didn’t approve of and the fact he passed on the dossier to Comey.

    Good luck with that.

  173. Tina says:

    Lie like amoral scumbag.

    Tina hates it when anybody brings up McCain’s war record.

  174. Bitterlaw says:

    Good thing Tina does not fault McCain. Otherwise, she might post a lot of unsupported allegations about him.

    Oh. Wait.

  175. Phil says:

    I don’t care about McCain any longer. it’s all academic. The man is dead.

  176. jason says:

    It doesn’t matter to Tina, she still feels compelled to try to post a lot of regurgitated trash about McCain because he is on her extensive and comprehensive list of RINOS comprised of every R who ever dared not vote 100% according to her litmus tests.

    So I am happy to remind everyone of what a great American hero John McCain was, and thank Tina for bringing his name up so the appropriate accolades can be given.

  177. jason says:

    Lie like amoral scumbag.

    Tina hates it when anybody brings up McCain’s war record.”

    Hmmm…let’s see.

    “bringing up his service record has no bearing in this matter.”

    “Why bring his war record up?”

    I mistakenly concluded that bringing up McCain’s status as American war hero was not popular with Tina.

    But I am glad that is not the case.

  178. Tina says:

    Continue to lie

    Amoral scumbag 2.0

    Ask bitter folllower for more points and a bowl of soup

  179. jason says:

    It seems like you are doing all the lying.

    None of your accusations against McCain are even remotely supported by anything you posted.

    Bitter won’t give me any points for amoral scumbag, not original enough.

    Give it another shot, I can use points.

  180. dblaikie says:

    Just got back from a week of fishing on Kodiak Island in Alaska, and was confronted by this article about the New York Times Assoc. Editor having a round table and saying they were going move away from Russian Collusion to racism. All I can say is drive another stake into the heart of a free and unbiased press!!

    I have had it with the whole media complex. The sad truth is that our American Media is engaged in a propaganda campaign worthy of the old USSR, but totally unworthy of our great nations traditions of journalism. So I will be cynical about all news stories, and all polls.

  181. jason says:

    Good thing Tina does not fault McCain. Otherwise, she might post a lot of unsupported allegations about him.

    Oh. Wait.”

    Well, they are supported by hearsay, fake news, speculation, false narratives, guilt by association, and character assassination. Pretty impressive “support”.

    Also of note is that liars, scoundrels and thieves are liars, scoundrels and thieves in Tina’s book. Unless one of them says something supposedly damaging about McCain. Then they are immediately promoted to golden paragons of virtue and truth.

  182. jason says:

    What did you catch?

    I want to know the biggest fish you caught and the biggest fish you got away from.

  183. jason says:

    I am putting the over/under exaggeration on the size of the fish at 20 lbs. Any takers?

  184. dblaikie says:

    Believe it or not my biggest catch was a 56 lb Lingcod. It really isn’t fishing at Old Harbor, Kodiak. It is catching. Bottom line is I brought back 150 lbs of cleaned, flash frozen fish.

  185. dblaikie says:

    I don’t know how big but I lost a large halibut.

  186. Bitterlaw says:

    Bitter follower? Damn. That doesn’t even make sense. I will probably lose points.

  187. Bitterlaw says:

    Cc

    That is a shame if you went just for the halibut.

    Tip your waitresses.

  188. dblaikie says:

    Oh I caught enough Halibut. I also brought home lots of Black Bass, Yellow Eye, and Coho Salmon. However the best tasting are the Lings.

  189. jason says:

    Bitter follower gets no points, let’s get real.

  190. jason says:

    There is video of course.

    dblaikie standing outside the fish stall as the vendor throws out the fish, catching them and putting them in the cooler.

    The 56 pounder knocked him down. Luckily it only weight 36 pounds.

  191. dblaikie says:

    That is probably how the amoral scumbag fishes but not me.

  192. lisab says:

    kramer was not just an associate

    he was john mccain’s aide at the time. he was the aide that mccain sent to get the dossier.

    if mccain did not want to share the dossier with the press as he stated, (mccain actually said on camera that to share an ubsubstantiated dossier would be bad for our country), than for his aide to do so was a horrible breach of mccain’s trust, and kramer should be fired

    or … mccain wanted his aide to share it with the press

  193. NYCmike says:

    I figured that dblaikie would just throw the net over to the right side of the boat.

  194. lisab says:

    All I can say is drive another stake into the heart of a free and unbiased press!!
    —————-

    “free and unbiased” was almost never true historically, but traditionally there has been press for every side. nyc used to have 15 major dailies

  195. lisab says:

    i have you all beat …

    many times i have caught robbie and/or corey …

    for bait, i just keep pointing out how they are saying the exact opposite of what they were saying in prior threads,

    or

    how they had said something really stupid before, like GA ior ID is in play

    or

    just mock them relentlessly until they respond

    each is well over 100 pounds …

    but of course … i use mock and release

  196. jason says:

    if mccain did not want to share the dossier with the press as he stated, (mccain actually said on camera that to share an ubsubstantiated dossier would be bad for our country), than for his aide to do so was a horrible breach of mccain’s trust, and kramer should be fired”

    Zzzzzz…

    Facts not in evidence. Nobody knows here what would constitute a breach of McCain’s trust and Kramer himself has already stated he was the one that divulged the dossier, not McCain, and we already know that it wasn’t published because of Kramer. Kramer said he didn’t expect it to be published and it wasn’t, at least not due to him.

    “Kramer should be fired” is BS.

  197. jason says:

    If you look at Kramer’s bio, you will see he was much more than an “aide”. Aide implies he was some underling on McCain’s staff. Associate is a much better description.

    “From July 2005 to March 2008, he was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs under Dan Fried. While there Kramer worked on issues related to Belarus, Moldova, Russia, Ukraine, and nonproliferation.

    In 2008, President of the United States George W. Bush nominated Kramer as Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, and, after Senate confirmation, he held this office from March 21, 2008 to January 20, 2009. While there he led the resumption of the human rights dialogue with the Chinese, traveling to Beijing in May 2008. He spent much of his time at this post traveling to places like Hanoi, Vietnam, twice to Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia, among others.

    Kramer left his position at the State Department during the transition in January 2009, and became a Senior Transatlantic Fellow at the German Marshall Fund. He went on to become executive director of Freedom House on October 4, 2010.On June 18, 2014 Freedom House announced that Kramer planned to resign that fall. On October 1, 2014 Freedom House announced that Mark P. Lagon would replace him in 2015.

    In November 2014, Kramer became the Senior Director for Human Rights and Human Freedom at the McCain Institute”

    Kramer was capable of making his own decisions, he didn’t need McCain’s “approval”.

  198. jason says:

    And btw, I am not defending Kramer’s decision to contact the media. I think he got snookered.

    What I am saying is there is nothing that shows McCain told him to contact the media, and in fact all the evidence is to the contrary.

    Of the two people that would know what McCain and Kramer discussed or didn’t discuss, one is dead and the other testified he told McCain to forward it to Comey. McCain, before he died, said he forwarded it to Comey and nobody else.

    There is nothing in the testimony or elsewhere that suggests McCain thought the dossier should be given to the media.

    To suggest otherwise is typical MDS.

  199. jason says:

    Meanwhile, in other news, I am sure the AFL-CIO conservatives will be excited.

    “Tariffs are expected to cost American households up to $1,000 per year when the next round goes into effect on September 1, according to a new note by J.P. Morgan.

    According to the bank’s analysts, the cost of the U.S.-China trade war borne by consumers is likely to rise from around $600 per year — based on the first two “phases” of the tariffs on Chinese imports — to around $1,000, based on the third round of tariffs.

    The $1,000 cost is also expected to offset the majority of the benefit that American households received from the Tax Act, the analysts added, which was around $1,300.

    “The impact from reduced spending could be immediate for discretionary goods and services since tariffs are regressive,” they wrote. “Unlike the agriculture sector which is receiving subsidies/aid to offset the impact of China’s retaliatory actions, there is no simple way to compensate consumers.”

    NYC to declare $1000 is nothing to him in 3, 2, 1….

  200. Cash Cow TM says:

    Please keep the people in central Illinois I. Your thoughts and prayers.

    On drive S. from Chicago today we passed by 4 big wind farms. Three of them had no windmills turning. The 4th windmill farm had all thepeopellers turning cou ter clocwise (BACKWARDS).

    When they spin backwards I think it throws electricity into tbe air instead of generating it into the wires.

    In any case, I fear the poor b@st@rds in central illinois have o electric power today.

  201. NYCmike says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjgsnWtBQm0

    -I will pray for the people of central Illinois…….but maybe Superman could do something about it instead!

  202. NYCmike says:

    Still amazed how tariffs being placed on Chinese goods MAKES ME spend an extra $1000 this year!

    It’s almost as if I have no control over my own wants and desires!

    I guess I will have to buy a dryer instead of hanging the clothes on a line in the backyard.

  203. jason says:

    There we go.

    NYC is in favor of the tariffs that will wipe out the tax cuts for most Americans because…drum roll….he thinks he won’t be buying anything affected by tariffs.

    As he wrote it, he munched down of some good ole American Wheaties.. made with wheat subsidized by Trump to compensate farmers for tariffs.

    But wait, he didn’t use taxpayer money to do it… he just printed more money!

  204. ssq says:

    When they spin backwards I think it throws electricity into tbe air instead of generating it into the wires.”

    It makes my hair frizzy….

  205. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Here is a video of the announcement on a Chinese train that any misbehavior will be reported onto a person’s social credit score. Very Orwellian.

    https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/1056811593177227264

  206. jason says:

    NYC knows all about Orwellian.

    For years he would bleat “Tariffs bad”

    Now he bleats “Tariffs bad, Trump tariffs good”.

    Soon he will bleat “Tariffs good, Trump tariffs better”

  207. NYCmike says:

    jason “worries” about “printing more money”…….yup, like there was none of that going on before 2017.

  208. NYCmike says:

    Tariffs are not good.

    The trade situation we had with China for the last 20-30 years wasn’t either.

    We will eventually see what a change in approach gets us.

    Also, jason mentions nothing about Hong Kong……

  209. jason says:

    US distilleries struggling under retaliatory tariffs.

    NYC to claim trade wars are great, no problem, because he actually is not producing any whiskey.

    “BRISTOL, Pa. (Reuters) – When Europe’s tariffs on U.S. whiskey hit in June 2018, craft distillery Mountain Laurel Spirits LLC lost 10% of its sales overnight as its European distributor simply stopped buying its award-winning Dad’s Hat Pennsylvania Rye Whiskey.

    Foreign governments subject to U.S. President Donald Trump’s trade tariffs have targeted American distilleries and their bourbon and rye whiskeys for retaliation. The industry fears new tariffs under consideration by the U.S. government could result in even higher tariffs on their products in Europe.

    “We went from a marginally profitable business to breaking even,” Mountain Laurel’s owner and chemical engineer-turned-distiller, Herman Mihalich, said while testing his latest batch of rye whiskey in the sleepy hamlet of Bristol in southeast Pennsylvania.

    U.S. whiskey exporters are struggling to recoup lost sales after shipments to Europe plummeted 21% between June 2018 and 2019, according to data from the Distilled Spirits Council, a U.S. industry group.

    In the 12 months before the tariffs hit, the United States exported $757 million of rye and bourbon. From July 2018 to June 2019 exports were $597 million. Exports are a sizeable chunk of sales the U.S. whiskey industry, which generated $3.6 billion in revenue in 2018.

    The Distilled Spirits Council said that 63% of U.S. whiskey exports have faced retaliatory tariffs from the European Union, China, Turkey, Canada and Mexico. The EU currently levies 25% tariffs on U.S. whiskey.”

  210. jason says:

    Also, jason mentions nothing about Hong Kong……”

    ??

    I can’t wait to see what this means.

    Should be good….

  211. jason says:

    jason “worries” about “printing more money”…….yup, like there was none of that going on before 2017.”

    Hello?

    I didn’t say I was worried.

    I was just pointing out your “evolving” positions on tariffs, spending, the role of government, etc. etc. etc.

  212. jason says:

    Here is what I said recently about Hong Kong.

    I can’t wait to see what problem NYC has with my comment.

    “jason says:
    August 13, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    One thing the Chinese aren’t is impulsive.

    I don’t think they will opt for a blood bath in Hong Kong.

    The Chinese have spent years fighting to convince world opinion that despite being a ruthless communist dictatorship, they are really not a threat to the world or to their own people.

    One effect of this is that strong arm tactics in HK are going to convince any waverers in Taiwan that reunification is not a good idea.”

    Like I said, this should be good…

  213. Tina says:

    M.Joseph Sheppard
    @SHEPMJS
    ·
    17h
    Daily Kos 8/16 Trump Approval (2016 in parenthesis)
    Florida 50% (48.6%)
    Michigan 47% (47%)
    Wisconsin 48% (47%)
    Pennsylvania 46% (48%)
    North Carolina 48% (49.8%)
    Iowa 51% (51.5%) No soybean wobble there

  214. Tina says:

    Ryan Saavedra
    @RealSaavedra
    ·
    2h
    Anti-Semitic Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) says that Israel is not a democracy and is not an ally of the United States
    1:12
    237.4K views
    Embedded video

  215. janz says:

    Mitt Romney is now on the side of AGW being the culprit of warming. His stances just get more immoderate and left leaning by the day.

  216. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Romney has been picking on Bernie as of late:

    @MittRomney
    More Mitt Romney Retweeted Bernie Sanders
    Nice try, but socialism isn’t the answer. If it was, maybe Bernie would have something to show for his 3 decades in Congress. #AllHatNoCattleMitt Romney added, Bernie Sanders

    @BernieSanders
    I’m angry because multi-millionaires like you and Trump have rigged our economy at the middle class’ expense.
    I’m angry because millions are living paycheck to paycheck.…

  217. jason says:

    Romney is a pandering scumbag that just wants to be loved by the MSM.

    Perfect example of the Stockholm Syndrome.

    If he only knew his new found friends despise him just as much as they did in 2012, and will dump him like a load of horsecrap the second he is no longer useful.

    Pathetic.

  218. jason says:

    Romney is a weak man. There were indications of it many times in the 2012 campaign, but I refused to accept it. He wants to be accepted and liked by the very same people that destroyed his candidacy through lies and deceit. Since he is obviously not stupid, the only other explanation is that he lacks conviction and fortitude. He has morphed into a pile of pandering jello.

  219. jason says:

    Anti-Semitic Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) says that Israel is not a democracy and is not an ally of the United States”

    Has she mentioned what countries in the ME are democracies in her view?

  220. Bitterlaw says:

    NYC is against the out of control spending under prior Presidents BUT justifies out of control spending under Trump because of the out of control spending of other Presidents.

    I love this place.

  221. jason says:

    Bitter, you didn’t get the message.

    The out of control spending under Trump is different, because Trump is only signing the bills, and he frowns when he signs them.

    The other Presidents smiled when they signed them.

  222. New York CIty says:

    I don’t care that Trump stomps all over my late conservative principles, because his boots are made of a different material than most other boots.

  223. Cash Cow TM says:

    NYC

    I remember the TV episode when Superman flew around world vackwards to alter time.

    Staying the night near Dayton Ohio.

  224. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    237. The U.S. already has Thule Air Force base, and several other installations, on Greenland. We already have access for military purposes. Why buy it? All this does is embarrass the Danish government and raises scrutiny about what the U.S. is doing already on Greenland, which includes many activities that would be better kept private.

  225. Bitterlaw says:

    I do not believe that Trump really wants to buy Greenland. However, if Trump did want to buy Greenland, fiscal hawk NYC would support it.

  226. Bitterlaw says:

    A former poster used to make Thule AFB a huge issue. I think it was in 2012.

  227. Wes says:

    Walt, why are West Virginians so flipping stupid?

    Manchin vacillates on everything and almost always votes against his constituents’ wishes. Do West Virginians enjoy being the political laughing stock of the country?

    At least Californians, while voting for nut jobs who are destroying their state, are voting for unapologetic representatives sharing their ideology.

  228. Wes says:

    Two words, Sheep: Donald Trump.

    Arizona is increasingly disillusioned with Trump and voted that way in 2018. If Trump can make Arizonans like him again rather than hate him, then McSally will see her numbers rise.

  229. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #244
    In 2018, Gov. Ducey(R) won re-election by double digits whereas McSally lost to a candidate who stated very negative things about her State.
    Also,in this poll, Trump’s approval is 47% in AZ whereas McSally polls at 41%.
    I suspect that something else is going on. Maybe a ton of early advertising aggainst McSally comparable to what is occurung in Me against Susan Collins.
    There’s a long way to go, though!

  230. Wes says:

    Ducey lacked a credible opponent. Even with his victory, Republicans lost two other statewide offices besides Senate as well as a host of seats in the Legislature and control of the AZCD.

    This is with Republicans turning out 100K more voters than Dems.

    Trump also had the worst showing of any GOP presidential candidate since 1996 in AZ in 2016, beating Hillary only 49-45 in a state Obama never came close in.

    I’m sure advertising against McSally is a factor, but it’s pretty hard to argue Trump has not been a significant negative for the AZGOP.

  231. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #246
    The new Emerson Poll has Gardner -13 against Hickenlooper in the 2020 CO Senate race. Trump’s fault?

  232. Waingro says:

    Losing AZ would be a disaster for the GOP. My bottom line is keeping the Senate this cycle. Assuming AL gets flipped back to GOP and CO is flipped to the Dems, this means the GOP can only afford to lose one seat (or 2 if Trump gets re-elected). Starting to get slightly nervous.

  233. Sheeple, Jr. says:

    #248
    I believe you are off by one in your second sentence. To wit: “.. the GOP can afford to lose two seats and three if Trump prevails.”

    Gravis says that Trump is doing OK in Nevada.

    http://orlando-politics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Nevada-General-and-Democratic-Caucus-August-16-2019.pdf

    Rasmussen(less) has The Donald’s approval down to 44%, the lowest since May.

  234. Wes says:

    CO started trending Dem under GWB, Sheep, but Trump—who will lose the state by a minimum of high single digits—is certainly going to be a negative factor for Gardner there. Hickenlooper would be the strongest Dem in the race as well. That’s another negative factor for Gardner.

    Of course we can continue the goalpost moving and claim a perennially unpopular President has exactly a 0% chance of losing and taking other Republicans down with him—or acknowledge reality and hope Trump grows up and does something about his current dismal reelection prospects.

    I see you’ve chosen the former.

    I choose the latter.

  235. Waingro says:

    #249:, well just so I’m clear:

    GOP is currently at 53 seats.

    I’m saying if they LOSE AZ and CO but GAIN AL, that brings them to down to 52 seats.

    That means they can only afford to lose one more to 51 but 2 more to 50 if Trump is indeed re-elected.

    Would seem to me the other targets of the Dems will be ME and NC with very outside shots at GA and IA. So they would need at least two from these given the scenarios above to flip.

    So I still like the GOP’s chances, but I’d rather not to have to worry about AZ possibly soon to have two Dem senators.

  236. Waingro says:

    #251, the one caveat I would have is the outside shot of James flipping MI to the GOP.

    But I really only see that happening if Trump performs well again in MI and, thus, likely in the electoral college again as a whole.

    I just don’t see James, a relative long shot to begin with, being a ballot splitting winner in this cycle if Trump’s numbers decline from 2016.

  237. Cash Cow TM says:

    Update from Ohio. .

    Having traveled thru Ohio and ow into WV.

    OHIO key state in 2020 …

    On I-70 there were 4 aces where the signs relating tbe closi g of tbe LEFT lane of traffic. There were 6 places where they closed the Right lane.

    Not sure what this means for 2020 election. ..

  238. jason says:

    Jill Biden’s ringing endorsement of her husband.

    Swallow hard and vote for him.

    “Your candidate might be better on, I don’t know, health care, than Joe is, but you’ve got to look at who’s going to win this election,” Jill Biden said, according to The Washington Post. “And maybe you have to swallow a little bit and say, ‘Okay, I personally like so and so better,’ but your bottom line has to be that we have to beat Trump.”

  239. jason says:

    Hey, Walt, stop wasting time on road signs and call Manchin to tell him he should run for Governor.

  240. jason says:

    Personally I think the US should buy Greenland, it has invaluable natural resources and great strategic significance.

    People against buying it would probably have been against buying Alaska and the Louisiana Purchase too.

    I am sure in 50 years people will think the same as we do about Alaska and Louisiana now, you would have to be a real moron to have opposed these purchases.

  241. NYCmike says:

    ” However, if Trump did want to buy Greenland, fiscal hawk NYC would support it.”

    -Seeing as how there is good precedent (Louisiana Purchase, “Sewards Folly”) along with middling results (Gadsden Purchase), it would depend on asking price.

    How do you make real estate purchases? Do what your wife says, no matter what?

  242. NYCmike says:

    McSally loses to Sinema – Trump’s fault.

    McSally behind to Kelly – Trump’s fault.

    Ducey wins his election – lackluster competition, Trump not a factor.

    McSally has a lower approval rating than Trump in the polling being discussed.

    While Trump could most certainly be an issue, where does Wes draw the line on the actual candidate taking responsibility?

    Is McSally running like DeSantis and Rick Scott in Florida, or is she running like a Republican-lite-mush-type candidate?

    Trump got more 2016 votes in Arizona than 2012 Romney did, as did Hillary compared to Obama.

    Sinema increased Hillary’s totals, while McSally did not match Trump.

    How is Wes putting this on Trump?

  243. jason says:

    We should buy Canada too.

    Give them 8 senate seats and 25 house seats, and each Canadian gets a voter’s registration card, a check for $100k, and a week’s paid vacation to Disney World. Quebec residents get a week’s paid vacation to New Orleans.

    After that is done, we buy Australia and New Zealand and call it a day.

    We rename the country the United States of the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, USNSH for short.

  244. jason says:

    wes, we can translate NYC’s post to:

    “Let’s run a deadender in AZ like Chemtrail Ward, deliver the seat to a liberal Dem, and SEND A MESSAGE”

    Mikey Maneuver Alert!

  245. NYCmike says:

    “We should buy Canada too.”

    -A liberal buddy of mine, leading up to the 2004 election, said that Bush was making plans to take over Canada………

  246. NYCmike says:

    #260 – Heh!

    It would be Ward’s fault, but not McSally’s fault.

    Pathetic.

    When people are unable to take responsibility for their loss, nothing gets learned.

    The same people who said Trump wouldn’t win keep telling us who can, but then make excuses when they are wrong, and blame it on someone else.

  247. Wes says:

    Mikey, had McSally drawn as weak a candidate as Ducey did she would have won.

    Of course McSally made some missteps, but having a late primary against two wackos in a state Trump is not popular in certainly was a factor in her defeat.

    I realize you’re a goddamn moron, but nothing says you have to make your stupidity apparent whenever you post.

  248. jason says:

    So NYC, where exactly do you disagree with wes on this statement:

    “Trump also had the worst showing of any GOP presidential candidate since 1996 in AZ in 2016, beating Hillary only 49-45 in a state Obama never came close in.

    I’m sure advertising against McSally is a factor, but it’s pretty hard to argue Trump has not been a significant negative for the AZGOP.”

  249. jason says:

    wes, NYC thought it was a great idea to support the deadenders that ran against McSally in the primary, sucking away valuable resources and ensuring a lot of deadenders sat out the GE because “McSally was not conservative enough”.

    But when McSally lost a close election to Sinema, the solution is to run a deadender against Kelly.

    “Goddamm moron” fits the bill.

  250. Wes says:

    Mikey is too stupid to understand Trump as candidate was less of an irritant in Arizona than Trump as President was.

    News flash, Mikey: Unpopular Presidents hurt their parties.

    McSally did make some mistakes during the campaign, but in the end an unpopular President who triggered a suburban revolt against his party that spread to Arizona was quite clearly a factor.

    Of course I am arguing with the idiot who was defending Dick the a Misogynist Bastard’s God-intends-pregnancy-from-rape lone, so I shouldn’t be surprised at your complete and utter lack of ability to understand anything.

  251. jason says:

    When people are unable to take responsibility for their loss, nothing gets learned.”

    LOL

    We can see NYC learned a lot from all the Mikey Maneuvers that resulted in the loss of valuable, and winnable, Senate seats.

    SEND A MESSAGE!

  252. jason says:

    Has NYC “taken responsibility” for supporting a deadender moron like Mo Brooks against Luther Strange, a conservative sitting senator who supported Trump’s agenda and was endorsed by Trump?

    “When people are unable to take responsibility for their loss, nothing gets learned”

  253. jason says:

    Mo Brooks:

    “What about the White Cliffs of Dover … and California, where you have the waves crashing against the shorelines, and time and time again you have the cliffs crashing into the sea? All of that displaces water which forces it to rise, does it not?”

  254. CG says:

    In regards to what happened in Arizona in 2018, let us not forget to differentiate between federal races and state races.

    All sorts of Gubernatorial and state races wind up going against the party that is seen as being much larger in the state. Those elections are far more often to be about local issues.

    Federal races (i.e. Senate and House) are by definition “nationalized.” People are far more likely to vote based on matters (pro and con) related to who is in the White House or who they want to control Congress.

    As it related to Arizona in 2018, there were some serious differences between Ducey and McSally, beyond McSally having a more formidable opponent as well.

    McSally tied herself very tightly to Trump in that race. Ducey did not. Ducey publicly defended John McCain when Trump attacked him. McSally was afraid to do so, and thus lot a lot of the pro-McCain Republican vote.

    Ducey was elected as a staunch conservative and has certainly governed that way, but is seen as quite different than Trump rhetorically and stylistically. It should be remembered that when McCain gave the thumbs down to the specific health care bill, it was Ducey who took the position of opposing it first and asked the Senators of his state to vote no.

  255. CG says:

    Would NYC next suggest that because Republicans won Governorships in Vermont, Maryland, and Massachusetts last year that Trump is popular there and pro-Trump Senate candidates should be expected to win seats there?

  256. Wes says:

    This is how Wikipedia describes the platform of Ducey’s 2018 opponent:

    While Garcia’s 2014 bid attracted independent and Republican support, his 2018 campaign is progressive.[4] Garcia’s 2018 bid focuses on supporting Medicare For All,[9] raising income taxes to spend more on education initiatives,[10] and opposing a wall along Arizona’s southern border with Mexico.[11] He also supports a “top-to-bottom” overhaul of ICE.[12] Garcia’s candidacy for governor has been compared to the candidacies of Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.[13]

    Kirsten Synema had no such platform and could claim to be a moderate based on her House record. As I said Ducey had a weaker opponent. Had McSally landed Garcia as an opponent she would be occupying the Class One seat now while some other Republican would be gearing up for retention to the Class Three seat.

  257. jason says:

    Giving credit when it is due.

    During the campaign, I often reminded the Trump fans here of Trump’s statements about being “very pro-choice” and supporting partial birth abortions.

    While Trump’s positions on a lot of issues are exactly as I predicted they would be, certainly on trade, spending and aspects of foreign policy to name a few, I admit Trump has come through for the pro-life advocates.

    The decision by Planned Parenthood to forego federal funds for Title X is a major victory for the administration and for pro-lifers. While all R Presidents oppose abortion, none have actually curbed Planned Parenthood’s massive abortion machine (because that is what it is) until now.

    At Redstate they are claiming the Trump Administration is the most pro-life ever. Maybe it is.

  258. jason says:

    I think it is fair to say Trump hurt McSally in AZ, although it wasn’t the only factor, I think the primary fight had an impact also. Plus Synema fooled some morons into thinking she was a moderate. He might have cost Heller in AZ some votes too, although the margin there was 5% vs 2% in AZ

    But Trump certainly didn’t hurt DeSantis, who ran very close to him, Scott or Hawley, and probably didn’t have much effect on the MT and WV races which the GOP lost by close margins.

  259. jason says:

    Still waiting for NYC to explain what he meant by “jason says nothing about Hong Kong”…

    And where I differ from Milton Friedman on trade…

    The silence is deafening.

  260. Wes says:

    As President, Trump clearly changed the dynamic in MT and WV since a Hillary presidency would have made reelection for Tester and Manchin highly problematic.

    I don’t think he was a negative factor though in those races in terms of popularity.

    That said, Trump essentially re-elected Tester personally by appointing Ryan Zinke to the Cabinet. It’s right up there with the GWB appointment of Mike Johanns or the Bill Clinton appointment of Lloyd Bentsen to the Cabinet for political stupidity by a President.

    In both those states, candidates mattered. In MT, Rosendale was an outsider from MD who started his campaign on a bad note by ducking a debate with Tester.

    In WV, Morissey was also a native of a different state with shallow local roots. Worse, Morissey went scorched earth on WV-3–a place Morissey needed Manchin to underperform in to win—and never articulated a reason for wanting to serve in the Senate.

    Both lost narrowly, suggesting Zinke and Jenkins could have won.

  261. jason says:

    This Michael Smith guy may have a point:

    “No one votes to be despised. Democrats’ message may swing my ballot to Trump.

    If you work in an industry likely to absorb some of that labor, you might wonder if this is how the Democrats plan to revive their brand as champion of the little guy. Are you the little guy they have in mind, or have you slipped a bit on their list?

    Today’s party answers: You only ask because you don’t like brown skin.

    Partisans who can’t imagine anything worse than losing history’s quintessential hold-your-nose election should picture coming to the rematch with a perfectly pleasant candidate, finding the opponent as nasty as ever, and losing again anyway.

    Which could happen. The swing voters who will decide the next election won’t care whether Democrats rate Donald Trump a racist or a white nationalist or a white supremacist. With the left’s favorite epithet flying around the political sphere more freely than ever and the definition of racism facing possible expansion, they’ll want to know what Democrats think of them.”

  262. CG says:

    Trump said he had info on Tester that would prevent him from winning without a doubt, when he was mad about Tester getting in the way of the VA nominee.

    He seemed to not ever reveal that info.

    So, either Trump wanted Tester in the Senate or he was a liar. A lot of Trump believers probably stood down in Montana, figuring they did not have to work to defeat Tester, because Trump had the info that would do it.

  263. jason says:

    I think Zinke might have won. I think Trump made a mistake there.

    I have my doubts on Jenkins, he only got 29% in the R primary, I don’t think he would have done better in the GE than Morissey, who had won state wide elections before and came very close to unseating Manchin.

  264. jason says:

    “So, either Trump wanted Tester in the Senate or he was a liar.”

    Zzzzzzzz……

  265. CG says:

    West Virginia likes Manchin. That’s the bottom line. He also voted for Cavanaugh.

  266. CG says:

    From a political perspective, Trump should have limited his campaign appearances to places like Montana and West Virginia, where he would have had the most approval and stayed away from all the places, where he was unpopular, drove up turnout against his party, and saw Republicans lose winnable Senate seats, key Governorships, and large amounts of House seats.

  267. jason says:

    Tester is one lucky b-stard, he squeaked through two elections in a row.

    Skyqueen, also living on borrowed time, was not so lucky. Neither was Skeletor, whose expiration date was long past. Or Donnelly, for whom lightning did not strike twice.

  268. CG says:

    The Florida Gubernatorial race should never have been close.

    Gillum was a somewhat fluke primary winner with a myriad of ethical problems and a far left-ideology out of step with the state. Still, he almost won and was leading in most polls throughout the general election. DeSantis was not a good candidate overall, and his infatuation with Trump hurt. Since that election, DeSantis has noticeably taken steps to distance himself from Trump, as Scott did during his Senate campaign.

    (it also helped that Democrats were dumb enough in Broward County to not notice a design issue with the ballot they put together which likely led to a lot of undervotes there.)

  269. jason says:

    I don’t know of anywhere that Trump campaigned that caused the GOP to lose “winnable senate seats”. He campaigned for Scott and DeSantis, both won.

    The only really close senate elections the GOP lost were AZ, WV and MT. OH and MI were within 5 points but Trump was not likely a factor, I already stated I think Trump cost Heller some votes in NV.

  270. jason says:

    I think you are wrong about FL governor.

    Gillum might have been a left wing kook, but he led almost every poll.

    I think the fact DeSantis ran very close to Trump helped him, not hurt him.

  271. jason says:

    Let’s not forget that DeSantis actually ran better than Scott, who was not as close to Trump.

    I admit that surprised me, I would have bet Scott would win by a bigger margin.

    But that tells me DeSantis was smart to run close to Trump.

  272. CG says:

    Trump was the key factor in the loss of Arizona and Nevada. Let’s of course also not forget the Alabama debacle. People were thinking that Trump was somehow going to flip seats in Michigan and Minnesota. No, he hurt far more than he helped by getting involved there, especially since Montana and West Virginia were not already in the bag as many pro-Trump people claimed.

    But the non-Senate situation (Governor and House) was much worse.

  273. CG says:

    The Trump lovers were always going to vote for Scott and DeSantis, who of course both won narrowly.

    Only when those campaigns in FL asked Jeb Bush to campaign for them publicly, and he did, were they secure the kind of suburban Republican voter that abandoned Republicans in many other races across the country.

  274. CG says:

    Putnam would have beaten Gillum easily.

    By the same token, Gwen Graham would have beaten DeSantis easily.

    As I said throughout, Gillum vs. DeSantis was pretty much a Bernie Sanders vs. Trump proxy battle in Florida. It should never have been that close, especially in a state that even Democrats think might be getting away from them.

  275. CG says:

    Gillum turned out to be overrated as a candidate and even in a big state like that, the national factor in a Gubernatorial race is not as big as it is in a Senate race.

  276. CG says:

    At last notice, DeSantis was said to have pretty high approval ratings early on in Florida and people are saying that he is exceeding their expectations in the way he is governing and how he has demonstrated growth since the campaign.

    That’s not something people ever say about Trump.

    In 2020, there will be many ex-felons, who were ineligible to vote in 2018, who will be eligible this time. Conventional wisdom is that the vote will go highly Democrat, but who knows, maybe Trump by virtue of his teasing a Blagojevich commutation can win that crowd over… /s.

  277. CG says:

    Specifically in Florida in regards to the ex-felons.

  278. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    CNN National Poll:
    Biden 29%
    Sanders 15%
    Warren 14%
    Harris 5%
    Buttigieg 5%
    O’Rourke 3%
    Booker 2%
    Gabbard 2%
    Castro 2%
    Yang 1%
    Klobucher 1%
    Steyer 1%

    Gravis, Nevada Poll
    Biden 25,
    Warren 15,
    Sanders 10,
    Harris 9,
    Buttigieg 5,
    Steyer 6,
    Booker 3,
    Yang 2,
    Klobuchar 2,
    Gabbard 2,
    de Blasio 2
    Castro 1,
    O’Rourke 0,

    Harris has fallen to only 5% in the CNN poll; her campaign is running out of gas.

    Beto got zero support in the Nevada poll. and 3% in the CNN poll. His apology tour for being Anglo is about to come to a close. He needs to end his campaign in style and self-immolate at Plymouth Rock.

  279. CG says:

    The overall 2018 Senate picture-

    States won by Trump:

    Republicans went 11-7

    States lost by Trump:

    Republicans went 0-17

  280. Wes says:

    I doubt Trump or JEB! was much of a factor in FL except on the margins.

    Scott was running against an inoffensive incumbent who didn’t start taking the race seriously till late. Once Nelson became engaged in the race Dems poured money into the race, exceeding their expenditures for the gubernatorial race. Dems tried harder to reelect Nelson than to elect Gillum, this accounting for the vote totals.

    Trump wasn’t toxic in FL but otherwise had little presence there. That was certainly a mild benefit, but it’s doubtful DeSantis did any better as an overt Trump ally than he would have had he been more standoffish toward the President.

    As far as JEB!, I highly doubt tons of voters went to Scott and DeSantis because a Governor, however popular, from over a decade ago endorsed them. Like Trump, he was probably a mild benefit on the margins but was not of himself a decisive factor.

    Of course thankfully FL is trending GOP, and Trump isn’t toxic there. Had things been otherwise then Trump definitely would been a decisive factor who almost certainly would have caused both Scott and DeSantis to lose.

  281. CG says:

    2018 Governor races

    Republicans went 16-4 in Trump states, seeing offices lost in Kansas, Michigan, and Wisconsin.. one gain in Alaska.

    and 4-12 in non-Trump states (no flips towards Republicans, and with three of the four wins by NeverTrump Republicans)

  282. Wes says:

    Phoenixrisen told me because Trump had changed the dynamics of American politics Republicans would pick up seven Senate seats rather than two, Corey.

  283. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    288. Las Vegas has become a suburb of Los Angeles. The increasing migration of Californians to Nevada has all but turned Nevada into a blue state.

    Besides the defeating Heller, Democrats also won the governorship against a strong Republican candidate, and the Democratic candidate for lieut. governor won by almost 2-1.

    Both Heller and Laxalt were from outside Las Vegas, the Democrats who defeated them were from Las Vegas. There was a massive Democratic turnout in Clark County, with a major organized by the unions. Similar to what is happens in California.

    Trump was a factor, but Nevada was turning blue regardless. Fleeing Californians seem to always want to turn the states they relocation to into new Californias.

  284. CG says:

    2-1?

    I am seeing the 2018 Nevada Lt. Governor result as 50-44. Republicans did win at least one statewide race downballot.

  285. CG says:

    Heller lost in 2018 because of the Clark County suburbs, which he had done well in several times before in winning statewide.

    Many suburban areas, across the country, which vary from being heavily Republican not long ago to very competitive, looked to be pretty firmly Democrat in 2018.

  286. Wes says:

    SDC, Republicans routed Dems in NV in 2014. Indeed, it was a state the GOP posted one of its best showing in that year. In 2016 and 2018, Republicans saw all those victories erased and more.

    The biggest change in national politics between 2014 and the two latter elections: the presence of Donald Trump as a fixture in GOP politics.

  287. Wes says:

    Current NVLG Kate Marshall won her primary with 67% of the vote. SDC may have gotten that confused with the general, which Marshall did indeed win by 50-44.

  288. jason says:

    My post 277 above….

    “You don’t communicate to them, you beat them. You beat them. They are not a majority of this country — the majority of white people in this country are not a majority of the country. All the people who are not fooled by this need to come together, go to the polls, go to the protests, do whatever you have to do. You do not negotiate with these people, you destroy them.”

  289. jason says:

    MSNBC guest.

  290. jason says:

    Scott and DeSantis won because of Jeb?

    LOL

    It doesn’t take long for Corey to become a clown.

  291. CG says:

    Every bit helps. The results were quite different in other races and other states. They were already hampered by Trump.

  292. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    301. Clark County has one of the highest population growth rates in the country.

    “LAS VEGAS, NV – Only one other county in America added more people to its population last year than Clark County did. According to United States Census Data released Wednesday, Clark County’s population increased by 47,355 people from July 1, 2016 to July 1, 2017, the second highest total in the entire country.

    The census data shows that, as of July 1, 2017, Clark County was home to 2,204,079 residents, up 2.2 percent from 2,1567,254 in 2016. The numbers show a continuing upward trend. From 2015-16, Clark County added the third most residents in the country, with 46,375. In years before that, Clark County increased its population by 45,655 in 2015, 40,365 in 2014, 30,209 in 2013, 32,833 in 2012, and 16,048 in 2011. Since 2010, the county’s population has grown by over 250,000.”

    According to the Statistical Atlas, the demographic breakdown is:

    45.6% Anglo
    31.6% Hispanic
    11.8% Balack
    6.5% Asian
    3.4% Mixed

    There has been a huge influx of Californians into the state, a significant amount were Latino. Even without Trump, it is becoming a blue state.

  293. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    303. That is correct Wes. Sorry for the mistake.

  294. CG says:

    Almost all the statewide races in Nevada were very close in 2018.

    Without the drag of Trump, Republicans would have done far better there, but no, it won’t even be considered a battleground for President in 2020.

  295. jason says:

    Sorry, AFL-CIO conservatives…

    “US Losing Trade War with China

    China’s growth has also slowed, but much of the downturn can’t be credited to U.S. trade actions. Instead, the slowdown largely reflects the limits of Beijing’s tendency to prop up growth through short-term investment and state-owned enterprises, even as its demography worsens and productivity growth slows.

    Market movements have also blunted some of the impact that tariffs might have had, reducing U.S. leverage in the trade war. The yuan has weakened, which offsets the tariffs by making Chinese exports cheaper. This is the inevitable result of Mr. Trump’s de facto strong-dollar policy, driven by larger budget deficits that have increased foreign demand for U.S. dollars as well as tariffs on China that have reduced U.S. demand for the yuan. Before the latest round of the tariff war, China was helping bring about Mr. Trump’s desired weak dollar by intervening in currency markets to keep the yuan strong. Yet when Beijing gave markets more latitude, the administration branded China a currency manipulator.

    In January 2018 China had average tariffs of 8% on imports from the U.S. and the rest of the world. In response to U.S. actions it raised its average tariffs on the U.S. to 20.7% by this June while cutting its tariffs on the rest of the world to 6.7%, according to Chad Bown at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. China has cut its imports from the U.S. but increased its imports from elsewhere. China’s exports to the rest of the world are also growing.

    No wonder China isn’t in a hurry to make the major concessions Mr. Trump has demanded.”

  296. Proud Obamacon says:

    LOL Pussy Grabber uses the “slippery slope” talking point on guns. Looks like the reTHUGs finally got to him! I’m surprised it took this long. This disgrace is toast in 2020.

    Completely predictable!

    #NOT.MY.PRESIDENT

  297. jason says:

    but no, it won’t even be considered a battleground for President in 2020.”

    Maybe, let’s see who the Dems nominate. I don’t see Warren winning Nevada easily.

    I don’t trust Corey’s opinion on what is a battleground state, he claimed Hillary would win Ohio and she lost by half a million votes.

  298. jason says:

    Here we go, the Maoist Leninist Marxist brainwashed moron arrived.

    How is your socialist paradise of Venezuela doing?

  299. CG says:

    You claimed the Pennsylvania Governor race would be single digits in 2018 and that Republicans would only lose a handful of House seats.

  300. Proud Obamacon says:

    Just ran across this beauty: ” any Jewish people who vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.” – Pussy Grabber

    LOL WOW. Maybe he forgot that the White Supremacists screaming “Jews will not replace us” . Very Fine People right? What a dumfuk. Can’t wait til he loses next year.

    #RESIST!

  301. Proud Obamacon says:

    “How is your socialist paradise of Venezuela doing?”

    Same old tired line from jason. He’ll be repeating this in when he’s 90 yrs old. Whatever gives you a rise, sport!

    #RESIST

  302. CG says:

    Terrible thing for him to say about Ivanka and Jared…

    Anyway, Trump will be happy to know that I am a very knowledgeable and very loyal Jew, whom unlike his Gentile self, has never voted for a Democrat in my life and has no intention to start.

    Still, I am knowledgeable and loyal enough to know I can never vote for a scumbag such as himself.

  303. Victrc says:

    I was going to write a snarky defeatist comment about how since were (republicans) going to lose so bad, then why even vote…but that is his elections are lost.

    I get it. Trump is an AH. He’s a bum. He’s an idiot on trade. He’s an awful human being. Insert generic negative comment here.

    But does that mean we have to settle for Warren or worse as President, which, if it happens will guarantee them the Senate two years later given the power that they are gaining with social
    Media combined with traditional media and the ability to “shame” any conservative into submission.

    Some here want us to vote for Rockerfeller (sic) Republicans (who are slightly right if the average democrat and as Romney has shown us, moving left), but all that will do is get us a senate and congress even more decidedly leftist

    So do we just give up and take it submissively.

    Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

  304. CG says:

    It seems like plenty of people have already chosen to submit to Trump and what he represents, even as they know the “bargain” they have made.

    That is what “giving up” is about.

  305. CG says:

    I don’t get the “guarantee the Senate” thing two years later.

    Just looking at this logically.. if Elizabeth Warren becomes President and does a horrible job, which is pretty much what all of us would fear, wouldn’t that mean the opposition party would then gain substantially two years later?

    The case has already been made for why Republicans should be expected to maintain Senate control in the current election.

    And all the Democrats are on record saying they believe Mitch McConnell will block any Democrat Supreme Court nominee, so the argument that Trump must be reelected to prevent liberals from getting on the Highest Court seems moot.

  306. NYCmike says:

    Not one person here “chose to submit” to Trump.

    He is the clear better choice in 2020, as he was in 2016.

  307. CG says:

    Clearly, Mitt Romney is more conservative than DJT and always has been.

    Remember, Trump is the one whom after Romney lost in 2012, blamed Romney for being too conservative and “maniacal” on immigration. This was late 2012 when Trump was saying Bill Clinton was the greatest President we ever had, Hillary Clinton was the greatest Secretary of State we ever had, and she deserved to be President.

  308. CG says:

    NYC, you should run naked through the sprinklers in Bay View as opposed to running naked through a burning building because that will clearly be the “better choice.”

    And then enjoy the consequences when you get caught.

  309. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    310. I spent a lot of time in Nevada in 2018, but not in Las Vegas. It was hard to imagine Laxalt not winning, and I was surprised — he has one of the most prominent names in Nevada politics, and seemed to run a good campaign. Yet he lost Clark County by 54.1% to 40.89%. I hope your right and it was just Trump; but I fear the state is going to turn into a blue state.

    Here is a link to a news article about the impact of Californians on Democratic politics in Nevada – the assumption the article makes that it may benefit Harris is not shown by the recent state poll. Then again, there is a question if Harris will do well even in California.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/12/how-californians-moving-to-nevada-are-changing-the-states-politics/

  310. CG says:

    ??

    (test)

  311. CG says:

    People who are not already from there would actually go to Nevada, to not go to Vegas?

  312. CG says:

    Laxalt had several relatives endorse the Democrat and appeared in campaign ads against him in 2018. Part of the reason was they say he betrayed his family legacy, especially on the issue of immigration, by embracing Trump.

    Clearly, a lot of traditional Republican voters abandoned Laxalt.

  313. Proud Obamacon says:

    “Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”

    Wha? The Democrats running against your hero are the equivalent of a foreign power attacking our country? You are truly a sick individual. I get, you’d rather not have elections and just bow to King Orange. Sorry, that’s not how Democracy works, sport! The people are awaken, your hero will be lucky to get 45% next year.

    #RESIST

  314. NYCmike says:

    “Clearly, Mitt Romney is more conservative than DJT and always has been.”

    -Actions speak louder than words. One lost an election for President in 2012, so there isn’t much data for him. The other one became President, and in certain areas, has been more conservative than both Bush’s and Reagan. In other areas, not so much.

    Romney’s “NO” vote against the ridiculous budget is a good step…….of course, he made that vote when there were already 67 “YES” votes…….

  315. CG says:

    According to Trump, “thousands of Muslims celebrated” when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

  316. CG says:

    Well, one lost to Obama , when Obama was an incumbent, and one beat Hillary, when she was trying to win a third term for her party. (Romney achieved a larger percentage of the total vote, but that’s somewhat irrelevant.)

    You yourself NYC have said you believe the roles would have been reversed.

  317. Victrc says:

    PO

    That’s a line. Although written incorrectly from animal house

    It should be. “Was it over when the Germans bomber Pearl Harbor.”

    It was meant to be comic

    Geez

  318. CG says:

    So, the best that can be said about Trump is to compare him to a John Belushi movie character?

  319. CG says:

    Animal House may be the wrong movie.

    At least Jake Blues was on a “Mission from G-d.”

    But knowing Trump, he would say that there were some “very fine people” among the Illinois Nazis.

  320. Proud Obamacon says:

    “It was meant to be comic

    Geez”

    Nope. You meant it and you got called out. Deal with it, bruh.

    #NOT.MY.PRESIDENT

  321. CG says:

    Did Kellyanne Conway intend for her comments about the “Bowling Green Massacre” to be comic?

  322. jason says:

    You claimed the Pennsylvania Governor race would be single digits in 2018 and that Republicans would only lose a handful of House seats.”

    Zzzzz…. I was off by 7 points on the PA race and I predicted Rs would lose 20 seats in the House… handful my ass.

    You, on the other hand, were so blinded by TDS that you make completely asinine predictions like Trump would not win one state Romney lost. You predicted Trump would lose Ohio even though there was not one poll showing that, and he won by HALF A MILLION VOTES.

    Nobody was more wrong about the election here than you were… maybe you beat out the Kanadian Kommunist.

    GFY.

  323. jason says:

    Proud ObamaCON is a blood sucking parasite who probably never had a job and thinks he will be able to be even more of a parasite under communism.

    He is probably wrong, he is better off as a blood sucking parasite now.

  324. CG says:

    So, we were off by basically the same amount. Yours came two years later though. You also said, closely before the 2018 election, that Republicans would win anywhere it was close and that you had no concern at all that Democrats could take the House. You said (unlike db who insisted for a while that Republicans would gain seats) that any GOP losses would be fairly minimal.

    Also, I predicted Trump would win Iowa, which was a state Romney lost.

  325. jason says:

    The people are awaken, your hero will be lucky to get 45% next year.”

    The people are awaken?

    I blame the Dems and the unions for the bad schools.

  326. CG says:

    Furthermore, I’ve never stepped foot in Ohio and you live in Pennsylvania.

  327. Victrc says:

    PO

    You see that’s the problem with liberals. You claim to know what I mean based on your narrative, and what fits your denigration of anyone who doesn’t fall lockstep in line with your thoughts.

    I said what I meant. Anyone who sees the comment would easily understand it was a funny comment from a funny movie.

    CG. No I’m not comparing Trump to a Belushi movie, I’m clearly making a statement about the impending doom for the R party based on some gloomy people who ha e a “take my ball and go home” mentality because their nominally Republican choice wasn’t picked as the nominee.

    Trumo is gruff. He’s uncouth, he’s bombastic and says some downright stupid things. I hate his tariffs which I think are more about ego (showing he knows how to power negotiate) rather than ideologicallly associated with isolationism, BUT

    A. He’s infinitely better than any choice the D would put up
    B. Even four more years of a President who will be even further left of Obama shouting racism, white nationalism and other leftist propaganda will be almost impossible to overcome
    C. For the most part Trump has governed was more conservative than expected and certainly WAY more conservative than Mitt carbon tax Romney would have.

    Therefore, as someone who put his money and time to prevent a Trumo nomination and who didn’t vote for him I. 2016, I will not give up as some here have done, but do my best to find voters in key states to help him be re-elected. Not because he’s someone I admire, but given the choices he’s the better of the choices for the country and my sons future.

    Caveat after Romney because the candidate I help fundraisers for him and did my best to help him…he makes me wish I hadn’t.

  328. jason says:

    and that you had no concern at all that Democrats could take the House.”

    No, actually I predicted Rs would lose the House in 2018.

    GFY again.

    And btw, Rs did win a races where it was predicted to be close, starting with Florida.

    I said Rs would win races where polling showed them tied or slightly behind, exactly what happened in FL.

    Did I tell you to GFY yet? I forget.

  329. Victrc says:

    Sorry for the typos. Phone is going crazy today!! Because = became etc

  330. CG says:

    Trump = doom for the Republican Party.

    Whether that means he loses in 2020 and brings a lot of people down with him, or further down the road when the damage will be even more complete as our country changes demographically.

    Some of us would like to prevent that and would actually like to see conservatism and freedom as the future of the country. That will not be the case under Trumpism and will not be the case if Trumpism simply yields a socialist reaction.

  331. CG says:

    I think the claim that Trump has “governed more conservatively” than Romney would have is preposterous.

  332. CG says:

    You keep changing your story jason.

    You said you predicted the loss of 20 seats. That meant Republicans would have kept the majority.

    You were saying “a handful of seats” for a while and then at the very end may have changed to 20, but that was still way out on a limb in believing that Democrats were not going to take the majority. They needed 24 seats to flip the House. Republicans lost 42, more than double your prediction.

    You were *far* worse on predicting the 2018 election than I was on the 2016 Presidential election, my admitted emotional bias against Trump not withstanding.

  333. jason says:

    Furthermore, I’ve never stepped foot in Ohio and you live in Pennsylvania.”

    I am glad you mentioned PA.

    I also came very close to nailing PA in 2016. I said that the small counties in PA were going to deliver a massive vote for Trump and that he would do much better than Romney. I just couldn’t bring myself to say he would entirely make up the 300k vote deficit, but I came very close to predicting it. In the end I just left it open by saying Trump had a chance in PA, which almost nobody else believed.

    And let’s not forget that I said Hillary would have a lot of wasted votes and that if Trump could come narrow the gap in the popular vote to 2% he could well win the election.

    BINGO!

    Comparing your record to mine in the 2016 election is a joke. I predicted Trump would win Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, and Iowa. You predicted what? Iowa? Zzzzzz…. and even that I think is a lie, your EV prediction for Trump didn’t seem to include Iowa.

  334. CG says:

    Whatever you did in 2016, the same year you were calling Trump a “racist” a “con man”, a “Klansman” and a “fraud”, you sure saw your prediction record shot to hell two years later.

    My House predictions both in 2016 and 2018 were stellar.

  335. jason says:

    ou were saying “a handful of seats” for a while and then at the very end may have changed to 20″

    Nah, I predicted 20 seats.

    GFY.

  336. CG says:

    I own up to everything. Besides the archives here, my final predictions are all on my “troll blog” as well, and I gave Trump Iowa and was admitting I was likely being too stubborn on Ohio.

  337. Phil says:

    Trump is a weak candidate. Lost the popular vote by 2.8 million votes. If only we had a more mainstream Republican running instead – like Romney except he lost by double that….or better yet a guy who REALLY has a reputation for reaching across to the other side. Someone like, well, hey, dig up John McCain and have him run again. He only lost by ten million votes.

  338. CG says:

    I will have to take you at your word that your final prediction was “20 seats.”

    Still, that would have put you pretty far out on a limb because that meant you were predicting Republicans were going to keep the House, which was clearly an extreme longshot at that point.

    You were only off by 22 seats I suppose.

  339. jason says:

    you sure saw your prediction record shot to hell two years later.”

    I predicted a gain of 4 seats in the Senate, how many did you predict?

    I was wrong about the House, no doubt. Still, I predicted a massive loss for Rs.

    But when it comes to being wrong, you can’t be touched.

  340. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The most important poll results so far are out. The widely respected Iowa Fair corn kernel poll, which is as accurate as any poll out there. And you can make popcorn as you tabulate the results:

    Iowa Fair Poll Results:

    Total votes for Republican candidates: 33,280
    Total votes for Democratic candidates: 33,165
    That 50-50 percentage split is the closest ever.
    Republicans:
    Donald Trump: 32,375 (97%)
    Bill Weld: 905 (3%)
    Democrats:
    Joe Biden: 8,143 (25%)
    Pete Buttigieg: 5,892 (18%)
    Elizabeth Warren: 5,064 (15%)
    Kamala Harris: 3,700 (11%)
    Bernie Sanders: 2,675 (8%)
    Cory Booker: 1,219 (4%)
    Tulsi Gabbard: 1,153 (3%)
    Tom Steyer: 1,078 (3%)
    Amy Klobuchar: 905 (3%)
    Andrew Yang: 745 (2%)
    Beto O’Rourke: 550 (2%)
    Steve Bullock: 300 (1%)
    John Delaney: 277 (1%)
    Kirsten Gillibrand: 270 (1%)
    Julián Castro: 264 (1%)
    Marianne Williamson: 240 (1%)
    Michael Bennet: 129 (0%)
    Jay Inslee: 120 (0%)
    John Hickenlooper: 115 (0%)
    Tim Ryan: 70 (0%)
    Joe Sestak: 69 (0%)
    Wayne Messam: 66 (0%)
    Bill de Blasio: 61 (0%)
    Seth Moulton: 60 (0%)

  341. CG says:

    Romney won a higher percent of the national vote than Trump did.

  342. CG says:

    I was off by one Senate seat in 2018. Got Florida and Arizona wrong and they cancelled each other out.

  343. jason says:

    But you are right, 20 seats would not have flipped the House. I should not have said I predicted the House would flip. For some reason I thought Dems needed 19, they needed 24.

  344. CG says:

    Believing that Hillary would beat Trump in 2016 was certainly a far more reasonable “wrong prediction” than believing Republicans were going to hold on to the House in 2018.

  345. CG says:

    “But you are right”

    All you needed to say

  346. jason says:

    Romney won a higher percent of the national vote than Trump did.”

    Meaningless BS.

    Gary Johnson got less than 1% in 2012 and Jill Stein 0.4%.

    In 2016 they plus McMullin got over 5%.

    Given that, it was pretty obvious both Obama and Romney would get higher percentages.

  347. Phil says:

    ….Romney had 6 fewer states and 100 fewer electoral votes. I know, minor detail.

  348. jason says:

    Contrary to you, when I make a mistake I admit it.

    You lie like a rug, never admit you are wrong, which is often.

  349. CG says:

    A larger percentage of Americans voters chose Romney than chose Trump. That is a fact.

    Trump was a weaker candidate than Romney.

    Hillary was certainly a weaker candidate than Obama.

    Open election years have higher turnout, plus a lot of anti-voting, fueled the 2016 turnout.

    Trump would have been decimated by Obama in 2012. Romney would have beaten Hillary soundly, including getting more votes than her nationally, in 2016.

    Now, as 2020 approaches, “OnlyTrumpers” will risk losing the election with him when other Republicans (i.e. actual Republicans) would do far better.

  350. Phil says:

    Yep, the minor candidates soaked up more votes in 2016….of course, Corey knows that.

    But, but Romney was closer in California only losing by three million votes so I guess there is that.

  351. CG says:

    I admit and own up to all my incorrect positions, and always have in regards to the errors I had in predicting the 2016 Electoral College. I was hardly along in making errors in that though.

    That also does not mean I am wrong to believe Donald Trump is a horrible human being and has no business being President.

    jason you should listen to me more, such as Election Night 2018, as when the votes were coming in, I was telling you that you were going to wind up being disappointed by Connecticut and Montana. You had to admit eventually I knew what I was talking about there as well.

    Continue admitting your mistakes though. One day, if you are honest, you will admit you were wrong to ever embrace Trump.

  352. Phil says:

    Nobody is “embracing” Trump. You have one of two that will be elected president in the next election – Trump or a Warren like socialist. End of story.

  353. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    327. “People who are not already from there would actually go to Nevada, to not go to Vegas?”

    Stayed in Las Vegas with family as a kid a lot. Do not like it, especially now. Plus do not gamble.

    Nevada has Lake Mead, Valley of Fire State Park, Lehman Caves, Gold Butte National Monument, Great Basin National Park. These places, except Lake Mead, are relatively uncrowded and great to visit.

    Valley of Fire State Park is a short drive from Las Vegas, and is an amazing place.

  354. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    368. “Trump or a Warren like socialist. End of story.”

    I go with Trump. Although he is impulsive and often has poor judgment, his policies are sound. Four years of a socialist will do lasting harm to the country.

  355. NYCmike says:

    “Trump would have been decimated by Obama in 2012. Romney would have beaten Hillary soundly, including getting more votes than her nationally, in 2016.”

    -So, you would rather go for the candidate with terrible political timing?

    I guess that explains your support for JEB!2016………

  356. Phil says:

    Four years of a socialist will do lasting harm to the country.

    Couldn’t have said it any better.

    Trump, on the other hand, will be gone in four years. That’s the big picture in a nutshell.

  357. jason says:

    jason says:
    November 5, 2018 at 11:01 am

    GOP will win all the very close races where they are only down 2-3 points in the MSM polls.

    + 4 in the Senate, – 20 in the House.”

    So Corey can stop lying about my predictions.

    As I said, “handful my ass”.

  358. jason says:

    Romney would have done worse against Hillary than he did against Obama.

    But of course Corey knows that.

    But even so, Romney would have done better than Jeb.

  359. jason says:

    you will admit you were wrong to ever embrace Trump.”

    I never “embraced” Trump.

    I have been willing to judge him on his Presidency instead of what I thought of him before he took office, which I think is the fair way to do it.

    He has been a much better President than I have thought he would be, although I disagree with him on many policy issues. And although he is not a conservative, he has certainly appointed conservative judges and taken conservative positions on a lot of important issues like taxes, energy, immigration, climate change, abortion, and others.

    He is certainly better for conservatives than any of the Dems running, and that is why I will vote for him this time around.

    If that is “embracing him” so be it.

  360. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    375. Totally agree with Jason. Keep in mind, neither of us voted for Trump in 2016.

  361. jason says:

    I go with Trump. Although he is impulsive and often has poor judgment, his policies are sound. Four years of a socialist will do lasting harm to the country.”

    Most of his policies are sound. Most of this cabinet is good.

    He will do a lot less harm to the country than any socialist.

    I didn’t lose any sleep not voting for him in 2016 because I made my decision with the information I had at hand.

    I won’t lose any sleep voting for him in 2020 because I am making my decision based on the information I have at hand.

  362. lisab says:

    if the dems win in 2020 … there is almost zero chance the republican party wil win in 2024

    the dems want to punish the gop.

    if possible they will make the presidency a popular vote election. citizenship and welfare for all illegals with open borders to ensure they have the votes

    look what they are willing to do to the people’s republic of san francisco, a city they like

    alabama and texas will be cesspitts

  363. Proud Obamacon says:

    Good to hear from President Wayne Lapierre! $30M donated to the Pussy Grabber and now Wayne owns the Pussy Grabber!

    11 days ago Pussy Grabber, paraphrasing: Slippery slope, I don’t believe in that.

    Today: Slipper slope! No gun reform!

    LOL total dumbfukk!

    #RESIST!

  364. jason says:

    Bernie Sanders explains what the Bible is about:

    “The Bible, if it is about anything, is about justice,” Sanders stated at one point during his 20 minutes on stage. “It is about reaching out to people in need. It is about standing up to the wealthy and the powerful.”

  365. Proud Obamacon says:

    Meanwhile, all reputable polls have 80%-90% support for universal background checks!

    But Wayne vetoed it!

  366. lisab says:

    are best hope imo is that biden gets the nomination and he goes to his moderate insticts

    if warren wins … i think things will get very bad, especially for the middle class

    fortunately i’m bi, so i won’t be included in the purge

    (btw you have to get your lgbt+ card before the election)

  367. jason says:

    Slippery slope is exactly right.

    Anyone really think Dems are about “sensible gun laws”?

    I am sure even the Marxist Leninist turd doesn’t believe that.

    He knows that what the Dems want is a society where lawful gun owners like me can’t own guns, but every criminal, terrorist or wacko will certainly be able to have access to them.

    Dems don’t want sensible gun laws. They want to demonize lawful gun owners and revoke the 2nd Amendment.

    It’s more than a slippery slope, its a yawning chasm.

  368. lisab says:

    i was in a teachers’ union meeting today … yikes

    the ny teachers’ union was pretty good, but these people were awful

    this year, at least according to the rah rah speech, we will be all about “student success” … which begs the question …

    what were you about before?

  369. NYCmike says:

    “I have been willing to judge him on his Presidency instead of what I thought of him before he took office, which I think is the fair way to do it.”

    -Imagine this needs to be said to adults like “CG” and Robbie who call themselves “conservative Republicans”.

  370. jason says:

    Now, as 2020 approaches, “OnlyTrumpers” will risk losing the election with him when other Republicans (i.e. actual Republicans) would do far better.”

    LOL

    I think Corey borrowed this drivel from Amoral Scumbag.

    Who does Corey think could actually beat Trump for the nomination (aren’t actual Republicans voting in the primaries?).

    If he admits that nobody would beat Trump in the primaries, then he should admit “other Republicans” is moot, right?

    It’s as likely as Amoral Scumbag’s brokered convention BS.

    Not that I see any other Republican doing better than Trump either.

    If there was another Republican than could win the nomination AND the GE, I would re-register as a Republican to vote for him/her.

    There is no such person.

  371. Proud Obamacon says:

    same ole drivel again from jason. Everything is a slippery slope. Everyone wants to take away all guns blah blah blah.. Does jason utter anything other than talking points?

  372. jason says:

    But maybe Corey can entertain us with the name of someone who could beat Trump for the nomination.

    Should be good.

  373. lisab says:

    our big push these days

    “equity” especially for non-whites, females and lgbt+

    including … teachers and staff in those categories …

    ummmmmmmmmm … females dominate teacher staffs … and more girls than boys go on to college …

    thank god i purchased all that rainbow jewelry from provincetown when i lived on cape cod …

  374. Proud Obamacon says:

    Anti-Semite in Chief calls Jews who vote Democrat, calls them “disloyal”. Wow, I will have to revise and say he tops out at 43% next year.

    #RESIST!

  375. jason says:

    When Dems stop calling a semi-automatic rifle an “assault weapon” and a “weapon of war” I will believe they might be interested in “sensible gun laws”.

    The fact is none of the proposals the Dems have made on gun control, most of which violate the 2nd Amendment, would have prevented any of the mass shootings. None.

    So the objective is not to prevent “gun violence”, the objective is to demonize people like me, who own guns, are responsible, and obey gun laws.

    Criminals, terrorists and kooks don’t obey gun laws.

  376. jason says:

    Wow, I will have to revise and say he tops out at 43% next year.”

    Are you sure?

    In 2016 you said Arizona and Georgia were in the bag and Hillary was fighting for Texas.

    What happened?

  377. Proud Obamacon says:

    Reminder 80-90% of people like universal background checks.. yeah yeah slippery slope.. bla bla

  378. jason says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of Jews aren’t looking at all the rabid anti-semites in the Dem party and saying wait a minute.

    We may be surprised at how Jews vote next year.

  379. jason says:

    I support background checks myself.

    But we all know that is not the Dem agenda.

    You can see it in California.

    Nobody is going to be fooled.

  380. Proud Obamacon says:

    Sure bruh, Dem Jews will definitely vote for the party who chants “Jews will not replace us”, those “very fine people”.. You are smoking something special today!

    #BLUE.WAVE.COMIN

  381. jason says:

    I was at a gun show last month. There was a line much bigger than I had ever seen to join the NRA. I think 2nd amendment supporters understand the threat, and they know this is not about “sensible gun laws” and “curbing gun violence”.

  382. Proud Obamacon says:

    So why not have some universal background checks? Why not keep guns out of the hands of loons? why? Why do you support giving mentally ill people semi-automatic weapons? You are doing great by the way! Keep it up, sport!

  383. jason says:

    Sure bruh, Dem Jews will definitely vote for the party who chants ”

    They might not be so excited about

    “Accordingly, Hill said, we should not “shame Palestinians for resisting rather than doing nothing in the face of Israeli state violence and ethnic cleansing.” Justice, he said, “requires a free Palestine, from the river to the sea.”

    The Dem Party is rife with Israel haters, anti-semites and racists.

    Don’t think Jews don’t notice.

  384. jason says:

    o why not have some universal background checks? Why not keep guns out of the hands of loons? why? Why do you support giving mentally ill people semi-automatic weapons?”

    Zzzzzzz……

    You think the Dems will stop at universal background checks.

    I would make that deal right now.

    Universal background checks and the Dems declare they support the 2nd Amendment and drop the ridiculous “assault weapon” BS and other stupid proposals?

    Do we have a deal?

    Nah, you would never go for it because you don’t give a flying f-ck about “gun violence”, you just want to keep demonizing and attacking legitimate law abiding gun owners. THAT is what it is about.

  385. jason says:

    Hey Marxist turd, there are already laws preventing mentally ill people from buying weapons. Terrorists from owning weapons. Felons.

    They don’t work because these people don’t obey the law.

    You think taking away my rights will keep them from obtaining weapons.

    Are you that stupid? I know the answer.

  386. lisab says:

    So why not have some universal background checks?
    ————————————

    if we can just make a list of all gun owners in a government database …

    what could possibly go wrong?

  387. Proud Obamacon says:

    “You think taking away my rights will keep them from obtaining weapons.”

    You would fail a universal background check? Hmmm

  388. jason says:

    I have a concealed weapons license (in PA just called a firearms permit) so I passed the background check.

    But you can’t explain how restricting my rights is going to stop people who don’t obey gun laws from obtaining weapons.

  389. jason says:

    Anyone who thinks the Dems are just interested in universal background checks is a real moron.

    Like I said, I will agree to universal background checks, in exchange for the Dems support for the 2nd Amendment and dropping all their other gun grabbing proposals.

  390. lisab says:

    senator warren visits mara lago

    warren: i’d like a table please

    trump: no

    warren: why not?!!!!

    trump: you don’t have a reservation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRs0OqV4uSc

  391. Proud Obamacon says:

    “But you can’t explain how restricting my rights is going to stop people who don’t obey gun laws from obtaining weapons.”

    If you pass the background check, your rights are not restricted. Damn, you really are stupid. Can you do anything but repeat Russian/NRA talking points?

  392. jason says:

    I agree with universal background checks.

    I agree with barring kooks, terrorists and criminals from owning guns.

    I don’t agree with:

    Banning semi-automatic rifles (yeah, those “scary assault” weapons)

    Limits on magazine capacity, ammunition and other violations of the 2nd amendment (none of that will reduce “gun violence” anyway)

    Registering gun owners (just an excuse to implement the nanny state)

    Special taxes on weapons and ammunition (just another tax hike on the American consumer)

    Limits on how many weapons you can buy a month or whatever (doesn’t make any difference on gun violence, you can only fire one gun at a time)

    I am sure the Dems can think of other restrictions, they are good at that.

  393. lisab says:

    that sounds like infringement

  394. Paul says:

    When Obama was president, all guns were outlawed and we had to travel to Mexico to buy them. It was a terrible time, but the trips to Mexico were always pleasant.

  395. jason says:

    If you pass the background check, your rights are not restricted. ”

    Ah, so you are not in favor of banning semi-automatic rifles or any of the other stupid ideas I listed.

    Well, in that case, you might be one of the few Marxists that think that way.

  396. jason says:

    If you pass the background check, your rights are not restricted.”

    I don’t trust the Dems, but I am glad the Marxist turd allows me to buy another AR-15.

    Thank God for small favors.

    And of course, I already passed the background check.

  397. Proud Obamacon says:

    “I already passed the background check”

    Then how are your rights being restricted? Come on, focus, you can do this!

  398. Proud Obamacon says:

    Come on, jason! I know its hard putting aside your Russian talking points and conspiracy theories, but let’s try. You can do this!

  399. Bitterlaw says:

    I think Romney would have beaten Hillary. I think Trump would have lost to Obama in 2008 or 2012.

    I know people who did not vote for President in 2016 who would have voted for Romney.

    As far as the judgment on candidates for losing to Obama, let’s not pretend that Obama had history on his side and the advantage of being the first black/biracial/whatever candidate.

  400. VictrC says:

    Bitter

    Disagree with the first (I don’t see Romney connecting with rust belt types and he would have not attacked Clinton, nor worked as hard as Trump did)

    Agree with the second

    And you’re spot on with your assessment of being a candidate against Obama.

  401. Big Joe says:

    This is an interesting alternative history topic. Here’s a question. If the GOP nominated Trump in ’12 and lost, would they have nominated Romney in ’16? Or would it have been time for some new blood.. Rubio?

    Rubio vs Hillary in ’16?

    Big Joe

  402. Bitterlaw says:

    I am just relieved that Trump will be irrelevant in 2024 whether he wins or loses in 2020. There is no Trump ideology.

  403. Bitterlaw says:

    416 should have said let’s not forget rather than let’s not pretend.

  404. VictrC says:

    Bitter. – I agree. Hes a phenomenon not a movement.

    Question is…who;se next, Four years is a long time
    Pence (too miuch Trump baggage?)
    Haley?
    Rubio?
    Sasse (hes a showboat and narcissist whose more about Sasse than anyone else)

    Dark Horse
    DeSantis? (Seems to be doing well in FL)
    Sununu
    Noem

  405. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    416. Romney’s reputation as a ‘vulture capitalist” and corporate raider preceded him in the Midwest states. He could not even carry Ohio in 2012; as blue collar voters just did not like him. He had no chance of carrying Pennsylvania, Michigan or Wisconsin (despite Ryan).Romney comes across as priggish and holier-than-thou, which contrasts with his actions at Bain Capital. At least Trump was very open about his business activities, and never pretended he was angelic. Romney confused people

  406. Bitterlaw says:

    SDC – Trump was lucky to run against the only politician more hated than him. He will not have that advantage in 2020.

  407. Wes says:

    Joe, Trump would never have challenged Obama because Obama didn’t offer the same kind of weaknesses and openings to attack as Hillary.

  408. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    423. I believe underlying the crazy 2016 election were economic issues, and a deep unrest among the electorate. Bernie Sanders, and avowed socialist, came close to getting the 2016 Democratic nomination. Trump was a former Democrat, who repudiated the existing Republican status quo and now enjoys about 90% support among Republicans.

    The economic collapse in 2008 was a major factor in the Obama’s first election victory. The fact eight years later in 2016 both parties were in turmoil is an indication of the failure of the Obama presidency. There is often nostalgia expressed on this website for a Republicanism that existed in the past; but it is never coming back. We are in a new world, and a different economic order, which nobody yet fully understands.

  409. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    ‘Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other’ – Ronald Reagan

  410. NYCmike says:

    “Joe, Trump would never have challenged Obama because Obama didn’t offer the same kind of weaknesses and openings to attack as Hillary.”

    -Good political instincts.

  411. NYCmike says:

    “There is no Trump ideology.”

    -Exactly, which is why any “conservative Republican” should be able to put aside personal animus towards Trump, look to defeat the Democrat again in 2020, and then move on from him in 2025.

  412. NYCmike says:

    Greenland – location, location, location. China is saying they have Arctic claims, this would make it easier to control certain issues.

    Minerals. Oil? Rare earths?

  413. Bitterlaw says:

    NYC – is the US not big enough for you? It is not 1804 or 1867.

  414. Wes says:

    I just saw a spider. This is how Bitter would have reacted:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_3eC35LoF4U

  415. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    429. Trump looks totally insane in his Greenland quest. He cancelled his visit to Denmark because the Danes firmly rejected selling Greenland. Does he even realize how silly he looks now?

  416. Bitterlaw says:

    I would have asked my wife to deal with it. If it was outside, I would stay inside until it snows and the spider freezes to death.

  417. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Maybe if Greenland becomes a state, Trump can choose as his running mate Nanook of the North.

  418. Big Joe says:

    “Joe, Trump would never have challenged Obama because Obama didn’t offer the same kind of weaknesses and openings to attack as Hillary.”

    Of course. There’s a reason the 2012 crop of GOP candidates were of the retread and minor variety. It was always going to be tough to take down Pres. Obama and the major candidates were right to wait.

    Big Joe

  419. Proud Obamacon says:

    Well I had some hope for jason but it for not. He’s back on the dark side reading Russian memes and regurgitating them tomorrow. Very Sad!

  420. Scooterboy says:

    275. Jason: “He is certainly better for conservatives than any of the Dems running, and that is why I will vote for him this time around.”

    Exactly !!!!

  421. NYCmike says:

    The simple fact that the current US President is speaking about expanding our shores is insane……maybe in the same way Jefferson was considered a hypocrite for using government debt to buy Louisiana and Alaska was nicknamed “Sewards Folly”. There is only upside to it, in my opinion.

    He is seeking more land, more security, more potential development….what’s not to like about the idea?

    He could probably do without the cancelled visit, but it is such an-out-of-left-field-idea, you just have to let him run with it.

  422. NYCmike says:

    scooterboy is on the Trump Train?!?!

    O M G ! !

  423. lisab says:

    Portland Police: ‘We Wish There Were Some Kind Of Organized, Armed Force That Could Fight Back Against Antifa’

    PORTLAND, OR—In a press release earlier this week, Portland police chief Danielle Outlaw (her actual name), appearing somber and exhausted, said she just wishes there were some kind of group with the firepower and authority to fight back against Antifa.

    In a candid moment, Outlaw (seriously, her actual name) said there was just nothing the police could do, as they’d need to have some kind of organized, armed force specifically created to protect and serve the people.

    “Like, what if we took money from everyone to fund a force that could then defend them in a time of need?” she pondered aloud. “They could have patrol cars, firearms, and attack dogs. Maybe even some tanks. That would be so frickin’ rad. They could have a badge to show their authority. Then, when a rogue group like Antifa shows up to take over our city every weekend, they could be repelled using force if necessary.”

    “I know it sounds crazy, but a girl can dream, right?” she added wistfully.

    Sadly, there is no such force in Portland, so citizens have been forced to turn to an even crazier idea: taking responsibility for their own safety and well-being, and maybe even buying a gun to protect themselves.

  424. NYCmike says:

    lisab,

    You should probably give the h/t to the Babylon Bee for that last comment, so that people know it is satire…….especially because it is so close to the truth!

  425. lisab says:

    Bernie Sanders Arrives In Hong Kong To Lecture Protesters On How Good They Have It Under Communism

  426. lisab says:

    Biden Clarifies: ‘I Like All Races, Even The Bad Ones’

    WASHINGTON, D.C.—Joe Biden has apologized for his recent seemingly racist comment, where he said that poor kids are sometimes as smart as white kids.

    “Everyone who knows me knows I’m not a racist,” said Biden. “I even have a black friend, Barry. Smart, articulate guy who bathes.”

    Aides were then seen signaling him to stop talking, but Biden pushed on.

    “Rest assured,” Biden said. “I like all races, even the bad ones.”

    Aides threw up their hands in exasperation.

    “What? What’d I say?”

    Media immediately jumped all over Biden’s comments, responding to his horrifying gaffe by calling on President Trump to resign.

  427. Bitterlaw says:

    I knew NYC would justify buying Greenland. His absurd comparisons to the Louisiana Purchase and buying Alaska are foolish even for him.

    We need Greenland for security? We already have bases there. Is NYC concerned about the Nazi U-Boat threat?

    Greenland is not for sale. Is there nothing that Trump says that NYC won’t support?

  428. Bitterlaw says:

    Nothing should be anything.

  429. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    Just to be clear on the protocol. Greenland is a self-governing, autonomous country under the rule of the Danish royal family. The royal family has stated the 56,000 people of Greenland have the right to make the decision whether to join the U.S. Trump claims to be a great deal maker; he needs to make them an offer they would not refuse.

  430. lisab says:

    Joe Biden’s neurosurgeon insists the 2020 Democrat front-runner is as ‘sharp as he was 31 years ago’ – just hours before the 76-year-old wrongly claims MLK and RFK were assassinated in the ‘late 70s’

  431. Messy says:

    439. the whole canceling the trip to Denmark thing would be funny if it wasn’t so…it makes y’all look stupid.

    447. He hasn’t. 56 thousand isn’t enough to make a state, and since they don’t want it it makes him look even more foolish than he usually does.

  432. dblaikie says:

    Just think, if we buy Greenland, we will have Canada surrounded! More than that we will have a huge supply of fresh water as the immense ice field melts from Climate change. And finally we all saw the Discovery show about the gold miners in Greenland who found rubies — vast wealth. Who wouldn’t want to have Greenland?

  433. Messy says:

    Ras has Trump at 44%. That’s around 37% in people years.

  434. dblaikie says:

    Sorry Messy but Trump is at 46 in today’s poll. Not that it matters that much, this early.

  435. Robbie says:

    The New York Times
    @nytimes

    Breaking News: The federal budget deficit is growing faster than expected and will top $1 trillion next year, as President Trump considers more spending.

    – Somehow, Tea Party super red hat MAGA worshippers will find no issue with their political hero after years of carping about out of control spending.

  436. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    August 15, 2019 at 11:59 pm
    He’s a Never Trumper.who is absolutely a troll.

    – Poor Phil. Trumpism has so corroded his mind he can’t even conceive that there are conservatives and Republicans who don’t like Trump. It really is sad, but he thought he was getting a wall.

    When Trumpism ends (it will end badly too), I’m going to enjoy watching people in this forum try and excuse away their devoted support of trump.

    Sorry, but you can’t just walk away from the ethnonationalist populism you’ve embraced as if it never happened.

  437. Robbie says:

    By the way, Trump is finished. It’s been clear for some time the country (the sane portion anyway) is tired of his daily crap. Trump fatigue is real and it’s showing up in the polls more and more. That’s why Trump’s behavior in the last six weeks or so has taken a nosedive. He sees his poll numbers slipping; he sees the economy slowing; he sees his cherished trade war failing miserably.

    Now, the question is when do the red hat brigades realize Trump is going to crash the entire party next year? When there’s still a chance to do something about it, or when it’s too late? Almost certainly, the red hat brigades won’t figure out that Trump’s a goner until the day after the election when he’s cost the party the Senate as well. Of course even then, most will say the election was stolen by “muh Mexicans” because we never got “but muh wall”.

    Also, can you imagine the outrage from people in this forum if Obama had referred to himself as “the King of Israel”? Instead, we’ll get pieces from the Federalist saying “well, actually Trump is as close to King David as we’ve ever seen”.

  438. Robbie says:

    SanDiegoCitizen says:
    August 16, 2019 at 12:27 am
    Someone who constantly parrots far left talking points is not a conservative Republican. I know many NeverTrumpers; I was one and did not vote for Trump. Can tell the difference. Definitely a troll.

    – Trolls believe Rasmussen is a credible poll and Peter Navarro is a respected economist.

  439. Robbie says:

    jason says:
    August 16, 2019 at 2:01 pm
    Robbie is not a troll. He is a Republican who hates Trump. They do exist.”
    BS.
    It was never about Trump, just like it was never about Romney.

    – Jason fraud is back to slurp on Trump. Never forget he’s the one who opposed Trump every day of the campaign, refused to vote for Trump, and quit the party over Trump only to become one of Trump’s most devoted defenders simply because the moron accidentally won.

    Oh, that’s right. Jason fraud disagrees with Trump on at least one issue: tariffs. So brave. So brave.

  440. Robbie says:

    Phil says:
    August 16, 2019 at 12:50 am
    Well. I’ll tell you, when you constantly on a daily basis quote sources and post tweets from the Washington Post, MSNBC, CNN, Washington Post, The Atlantic, Salon etc etc you are a little more than anti Trump. He doesn’t have to do that. Hell, you don’t even do that. He’s unique. He’s a troll.

    – If you’re waiting for me to quote OANN, Team Twitchy, the Federalist, Gateway Pundit, or some other extreme right, fake news source, you’re going to be waiting a long, long time.

    However, I do find it humorous you spend so much time worry about me rather than the idiot in the White House who is destroying the party and the conservative movement you claim to support.

    You’ve got your priorities screwed up, Phil. But then again, you boomers have ruined every institution you’ve gotten your hands on for the last 50 years. So why not wreck the party and the presidency on your way out the door.

  441. dblaikie says:

    Wormtongue has returned. Isn’t that special!

  442. Phil says:

    It’s back.

  443. NYCmike says:

    The election next year will be fascinating!

    I lived under 8 years of Obama, so I have an idea what these Democratic candidates have in store for ALL of us. I will prepare accordingly in case they win.

    In Robbie’s case, if Trump was to win again, how can he prepare for that?

    RED FLAG that pilot!

  444. VictrC says:

    Support for Trump re-election is not tantamount to support for all his actions, his policies or his behavior.

    I didnt vote for Trump in the primary and openly supported Rubio (mistake at the time, he wasn’t ready and would have lost to Hillary)

    I thought he was a fraud and would govern like a Democrat when he took office.

    Trump still makes me cringe at some of the things he says, with his boasting and with his tweets

    Trump has been wrong with the Tariffs, his “negotiating tactic” has failed so far.

    Trump has been infinitely better as a President than I ever thought he would be, and he’s done exactly what he said he was going to do (not like Mr. Carbon Tax, Romneycare, flip flop Romney (who I also begrundingly supported after he won the nomination).

    He’s been better than any squishy Republican would have been (Bush!!! Kasich!!!! Romney!!!!) on almost every subject except taxes.

    I would prefer we had a good conservative as a nominee who didn’t attack people so much (NOT A SQUISHY QUASI D REPUBLICAN) but….

    we don’t and won’t

    Trump is better than ANY democrat, exponentially and therefore, for the good of the country and my children, I will vote for him.

    That does not mean I condone his behavior or all his policies, it means he’s better than the alternative.

    Deal with it.

  445. VictrC says:

    btw I did not vote for him in 2016 GE, but will absolultely do that this cycle. So will my wife.

  446. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    The latest Economist/You Tube poll has it as a close rate for the Democratic nomination:

    Biden 22,
    Sanders 19,
    Warren 18,
    Harris 8,
    Buttigieg 8,
    O’Rourke 3,
    Booker 2,
    Yang 1,
    Gabbard 2,
    Castro 1,
    Klobuchar 0,
    Steyer 0,
    Williamson 0

  447. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    @NateSilver538 Aug 20: Kinda wonder what would happen if Kamala Harris shifted gears and ran on a “you’re g—-ned right I’m a cop!” message.

  448. janz says:

    Comments on the trial balloon Greenland purchase are mixed. Some think Trump was being ridiculous even bringing it up, while others attribute brilliance to musing about it. For me, it’s just another Trump mental exploration regarding something fairly far-fetched. Kennedy, on Fox Business, described it as giving a sponge finger to China, because of the possibility of by-passing them in rare earth mineral acquisitions. I do disagree with Trump’s postponement of his trip to Denmark – only 2 weeks away. That shows an unattractive petulance, IMO, on his part. But, none of that seems irrelevant to him.

    #462 VictrC, I think you’re spot on in analyzing the Trump presidency. There is certainly lots of room for improvement. However, he is definitely doing a better job than most expected from his type of non-conforming, caustic leadership.

  449. janz says:

    You really have distinctively opposing ideologies challenging almost every social norm. On the left, in NYC, illegal immigrants are now eligible for highly prized lotteries involving getting low income housing. And, Trump, representing his American First philosophy, is renewing interest in questioning the legal standing of anchor baby citizenship.

  450. lisab says:

    Concerning Survey Finds Too Many People Believe Snopes Is A Legitimate Fact-Checking Website

  451. lisab says:

    Trump’s Loyalty To Republican Values Questioned After He Actually Does Something To Defund Planned Parenthood

  452. lisab says:

    Prerecorded Laugh Track Still Doesn’t Laugh At Amy Schumer Special

    Alyssa Milano’s Political Activism Prompts Millions To Ask Themselves, ‘Who Is Alyssa Milano?’

  453. SanDiegoCitizen says:

    @Weather_West Aug 19
    “California experienced a wet winter, relatively cool/damp spring, and near-average temperatures earlier this summer–all of which have acted to delay peak fire season. Vegetation dryness is currently near average levels.”

    All further proof of global warming.

  454. Victrc says:

    Janz…thanks

    SDC – LOL. In Texas as well we had a colder than normal and wetter than normal winter and actually summer was pretty nice up till August when we finally hit 100*. But of course the planet is endinf

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